A game best not dwelled upon
By Brett McKay, 28 Aug 2012 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Australian rugby, Rugby Union, wallabies
241 Have your say
New Zealand ran away from the Wallabies during their Bledisloe Cup test match at Eden Park in Auckland (AAP Image/SNPA, Ross Setford).
Related coverage
If cricket is indeed a funny old game, then the grand old game of rugby must have a wacky sense of humour, too.
How else can you explain a game in which the Wallabies defended better, hit the breakdown better, even provided more option in attack, yet walk away with less to show for it than the horrible display in Sydney a week-and-a-bit ago?
If there’s a Wallaby team that deserves to be beaten 22-0, it wasn’t the one that walked off Eden Park on Saturday night.
But don’t get me wrong here, Roarers, this isn’t at all to say that the Wallabies didn’t deserve to lose that game in Auckland, and with it, the Bledisloe Cup for 2012.
They were plainly dominated across the park, and never really looked like breaking the All Blacks line.
Furthermore, while the Wallabies short kicking game was better in the first half than it was in Sydney – but still a long way from perfect – it descended in the second half to pure guesswork and peer pressure. ‘If my teammates are kicking it, then I better too,’ seemed to be the Wallabies’ backs approach.
In one of the few moments of accuracy and actual insight from Phil Kearns during the Fox Sports coverage on Saturday night, he validly asked in the 63rd minute, “Why is the first instinct to put the ball on the foot?”
Kurtley Beale had just fluffed the umpteenth grubber or chip kick in traffic for the night, by which stage it truly did look as though the Wallabies were relying on the pure luck of the bouncing ball to produce something from nothing.
However, by this stage in the game, the All Blacks were on such a roll, and with everything including the bounce of the ball falling their way, the Wallabies were probably more likely to get a completely unlikely penalty try than they were to cross the stripe themselves.
And yet, they kept kicking the ball away when in possession. The Wallabies had enjoyed the best part of three-quarters of possession in the first twenty minutes of the game, but by the end of the game finished with just 40% of all contestable ball.
I thought the tactic employed in the first half by Berrick Barnes and Quade Cooper, putting short chip and grubber kicks in behind the rushing New Zealand defence was a good one, and often there was space to be found. But it seemed that only fullback Adam Ashley-Cooper knew what was going on, and by half-time even he wasn’t getting the message.
Rob Horne was so often nowhere to be found, or when he did manage to amble through after a kick, he was so slow that he may as well not bothered. It was little wonder he was hooked at the break.
I thought it was interesting that Robbie Deans replaced Scott Higginbotham early in the second half, too. Between Higginbotham, Michael Hooper, and Sitaleki Timani in the first forty, the breakdown aggression from the Wallaby forwards was actually quite good.
Furthermore, when Dave Dennis also went off soon after, the Wallabies were left to play out the game with only two real lineout jumpers. And that just invited the All Blacks forwards to do exactly what they did: station Richie McCaw between Timani and Nathan Sharpe, and let him do in the air what he usually does on the ground.
A quick comment on Timani, too: I’ve not been a massive fan of his over the years, but I’d suggest that was his best display for the Wallabies yet. Any suggestions otherwise can only be coming from those wearing coloured glasses. Probably red ones.
All in all, this is probably one of those games the Wallabies should just put behind them and move on from. Yes, they were better in several areas than in Sydney the week previous, but that is coming from a low base, and the All Blacks also played significantly better than their first outing of the Rugby Championship.
It’s becoming rather obvious that the All Blacks are nearing that once-in-a-generation state of greatness, and it’s hard to disagree with Deans’ post-match doubts that any coach in world rugby would’ve toppled New Zealand on Saturday night. And again, that’s not to say they were perfect, because they too would have areas they wouldn’t be happy about. Just the one try from dominant possession and territory, and 21 offloads to one, to name a few.
However, Deans is fast digging a hole for himself.
His side has scored only six tries in six Tests in 2012, and with three of them coming in the first June Test against Wales in Brisbane.
Quade Cooper was recalled in sheer desperation for the Eden Park clash, but even he can’t produce try-scoring opportunities behind a pack going backwards.
Deans’ 18% percent winning rate against his home nation is becoming harder and harder to ignore, too, even allowing for how good the All Blacks have been in that time. It’s very admirable that he has stated he does not intend to walk away from the challenge, but he just has to start beating New Zealand to be safe.
That all said, there are still another four Rugby Championship games that the Wallabies need to play – and win, ideally – and there simply has to be more improvement than what was initially shown on Saturday for the Wallabies to be any chance. Away games in Pretoria and Rosario will be difficult encounters, but no less important for the standings.
The Wallabies’ decision-making in attack needs to be a whole lot better, and the breakdown aggression and forwards intensity cannot tail off in the second half of any match from here on.
But I wouldn’t suggest reviewing the Bledisloe Tests to find inspiration, or even answers.
There won’t be much of either on show, and sometimes it’s just best not to dwell.
Brett McKay is a former non-tackling scrumhalf and not-quite-1st Grade middle order stalwart. A rugby and cricket expert for The Roar since July 2009 (having joined in Sept 2008), Brett has written for Inside Rugby and Cricket Australia, and is also PLAY Canberra's rugby correspondent. He tweets from @BMcSport
Looking to join The Roar team? We're searching for an experienced Group Sales Manager to lead our team in Sydney. Yes, this does mean you get to work with the site all day long! If you're a digital media sales star, we want to hear from you. Apply now.
![]()
Passionate about your union? Then sign up to The Roar's brand new daily union email, delivering Roaring articles directly to you day-in, day-out. You'll love it!
Click here to join now!
- Explore:
- Australian rugby, Rugby Union, wallabies


August 28th 2012 @ 5:21am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:21am | Report comment
“It’s becoming rather obvious that the All Blacks are nearing that once-in-a-generation state of greatness,” again an aussie talking up the AB’s.
“he just has to start beating New Zealand to be safe.” theres a queue for this that goes right around the world.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:12am
John Doe said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:12am | Report comment
For all the hype SBW has got, the AB’s midfield, if nothing else, is a long way from good, let alone great. I can’t speak for all of New Zealand, but the consensus ’round where I am is that the All Blacks did enough, but not much more. If anyone in the NZ media is talking about this team being a “once in a generation” one they’re definitely on the fringes.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:33am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:33am | Report comment
johnDoe – its not NZ where all this talking of the AB’s is coming from. i agree with your summation. the AB’s put in an adequate performance but still have a lot to improve on. great,? not yet and not by a long margin.
all this talk of this AB’s being the best in a generation is all coming from aus players and media.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:54am
nickoldschool said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:54am | Report comment
agree with you 2. wallabies through and through like to think that only ‘the best’ can beat them. Thast why we keep hearing and reading that no one could beat these ABs, that they are the best ever seen. The ABs have been dominating world rugby for 2 decades and i think this lot are nowhere near the best nor have reached their full potential. They were average at scrum time, didnt score as many tries as they should have, yet they won fairly easily.
But it does make ppl feel better to think only the best beat them, rather than look at recent games v ireland, Scotland, Samoa or even the tests v Wales which were far from perfect. Thats arrogance in defeat imo.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:57am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:57am | Report comment
nos – thats such a funny yet apt description of the wallaby’s “arrogance in defeat”
August 28th 2012 @ 8:15am
AussieKiwi said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:15am | Report comment
Geez you two are harsh critics. WBs can’t take a trick. If they don’t praise the ABs they get slammed for arrogance in not acknowledging a superior team, if they do, its arrogance in defeat.
I agree that Cooper was over the top in his comments, but apart from that the WBs were right to acknowledge that they have been beaten twice by a very fine team (which still has room for improvement).
So the only way to avoid your criticism Mania and NOS would be public flagellation, along the lines of, we are so appalling we were thrashed twice by a mediocre mistake ridden ABs team?
As an AB supporter, I do sometimes feel sorry for the WBs!
August 28th 2012 @ 8:17am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:17am | Report comment
AussieKiwi – yeah i’m probably being unduly harsh because it was such a funny line from nos. i mean “arrogance in defeat” is so funny
August 28th 2012 @ 4:28pm
nickoldschool said | August 28th 2012 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
Aussiekiwi, I was referring more to the wallabies fans rather than the wallabies themselves.I think we (am still a wallabies supporter!) arent as good as many think. We are anywhere between n2 andn8 in the world depending on the day and if our players decide to have a go or not. So when ppl, or journos say it took ‘the best ever’ AB side to beat us i disagree. Unfortunately, one doesnt have to be exceptional to beat the waalbies these days (hence my exampls above). sorry for the confusion. hence the ‘arrogance in defeat’ line towards these supporters. if that makes sense.
August 28th 2012 @ 9:33am
Brett McKay said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
“And again, that’s not to say they were perfect, because they too would have areas they wouldn’t be happy about.”
If you’re going to quote a line Mania, you could at least take the context, too. They ARE becoming a very good side, but there are still things the ABs would want to do better..
August 28th 2012 @ 9:57am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:57am | Report comment
sorry brett, was more interested in pointing out that all this talking up of AB’s is coming from mainly aus sources instead of maintaining your contextual journalistic integrity. my bad
i consider myself admonished.
August 28th 2012 @ 12:05pm
Brett McKay said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
OK, fair enough Mania..
August 28th 2012 @ 5:32am
Ben.S said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:32am | Report comment
Hmmm… Sometimes it is best to forget and move on, but I think with two consecutive poor performances, and an underwhelming series against Wales that this sort of loss can’t really be walked away from. The Wallabies have been on a downward curve since the WC IMHO and I can’t recall the last time I saw such a rudderless, one-dimensional and tactically inept performance from an Australian side. For the record I thought the All Blacks weren’t that special either – they certainly have room for improvement, despite what certain players and Deans would have people believe. Certain questions need to be asked immediately so that some kind of forward movement can be made. Deans has been in charge for 5 years now, and it’s clear that the players aren’t responding to him. Some of them look miserable. Either they need to go or he does. I would bring Jake White in on a consultancy basis and make McGahan temporary head coach for the RC.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:09am
CamboUSA said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:09am | Report comment
Great point , totally agreed , class and experience with those coaches …
August 28th 2012 @ 5:54am
chris said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:54am | Report comment
Iam a Rugby League fan first and foremost but what is the IRB doing to make the game more like League but like Union.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:19am
CamboUSA said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:19am | Report comment
Mate league has totally become one dimensional from where it’s origin was . So at least IRB are still keeping the origins of the game intact and from that openining it up . Mate why does league still have a scrum ? And the game was much better in the 80s and 90s so much more attacking options . And if you where a league guy right now u must be loving how the wallabies aren’t doing well …… But mate be very carefull what u wish for cause when the wallabies become a championship team ie world champs , super rugby will blossom and ratings will go up and youth will be looking at there new heros of union . It will totally hurt league . Especially if super rugby builds teams in all states . How will rugby league grow by adding more suburbs to the league ..
August 28th 2012 @ 5:55am
Justin2 said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:55am | Report comment
Just because the ABs only scored one try does not make our defence good. We were slow off the line, lacked sting in our tackles and missed way too many easy targets. Our saving grace was the ABs themselves, this was a dreadful performance after 20mins.
Timani needs to do that week in week out, well done but one match ain’t a career young man. This is a great analysis of his play v Wales http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/sitaleki-timani-a-closer-look/
Defence average, attack woeful. Not up to it at this point – Deans, Robinson, Alexander, Dennis, Barnes, Horne. Mitchell is gone, Higgers needed for LO but must pull his finger out. AAC scrapes but isn’t getting better…Big concern over Beale, mentally and physically underdone. I fear that Deans has gone past the point of no return with Beale and Co.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:02am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:02am | Report comment
j2 – i dont understand why your having a go at timani? he in the forwards stood up and apart from his team mates and actually refused to be mediocre. despite higgers, dennis, alexander, robinson being average timani actually performed despite them. sharpe, moore and timani were the only forwards that had some fight in them.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:26am
Justin2 said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:26am | Report comment
Mania I said he played well but that needs to be the standard or very close to it. I don’t think I had a go at him re this game but he has plenty of improvement in him and that link highlights it pretty clearly. He needs to work on his fitness and accuracy, that’s a fact.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:38am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:38am | Report comment
j2 – i agree that timani needs to keep his game at this standard but as a starting point he’s light years ahead of any other lock aus has. i watched that link and his work load is immense. usually when i see a lock running it i’m pretty annoyed as they’re usually not doing their core roles; clearing out / securing the rucks. however with timani its a case of he’s doing everything possible.
every player needs to work on their fitness and accuracy. aus forwards need to take a leaf out of timani’s book and play with a bit of agression and show a relentless work ethic.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:41am
Justin2 said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Easy with the excitement mania, he isn’t near Horwill for a start nor Sharpe, he’s played 1 good game.myou sound like an Aussie supporter finding the new messiah!
I must have posted the wrong link if that’s what you got out of it
August 28th 2012 @ 7:49am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
j2 – nah i got the right link i just thought the comments about his short comings was way off mark. yeah i’m probably over excited on aus’ behalf. i’m impressed with timani and reckon he’s an awesome complement to someone like horwill or sharpe.
if i were coach i would be putting my energies to sorting the other forwards. timani is a done deal and his name is on the team sheet for the rest of the season
August 28th 2012 @ 8:31am
formeropenside said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:31am | Report comment
half a good game actually, out of 5 games so far (for one win). he did little in the second half and got badly turned over in one tackle.
add in the non-appearance at lineout time, and I start to query whether he is better used as an 8 rather than a second row. He was not doing the work required of a tight forward.
also, I would note that his “stats” and visibility were inflated by the constant use of Timani as a midfield runner off a lineout: while he retained possession here, he did not bend or break the line as I recall.
I assume that setting him in the backs was to assist his obvious lack of fitness as well as to provide a “midfield battering ram”.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:36am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:36am | Report comment
fos – still he’s better than the latest batch of aus forwards.
August 28th 2012 @ 12:33pm
Red Kev said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
The best use of Timani this year when he is clearly unfit is 40 minutes at no.8 with Samo taking the other 40. Both are ball runners and big tacklers and it allows Higginbotham to play at 6 and if he’s not working Gill and Hooper to be run as tandem flankers.
August 28th 2012 @ 2:19pm
jeznez said | August 28th 2012 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
The RC and Bledisloe have bolted so just play Timani for 80 minutes every week and his fitness will very quickly come up to scratch. Its been my main criticism of him this year and I think the improvement on Saturday compared to the week before has been excellent.
Leave him in place for the remainder of the series and start working out who the lineout caller is going to be post-Sharpe. I can’t think that Simmons is the only guy in that frame, time to pick one of the other young second rowers to have a shot at that role.
August 28th 2012 @ 2:24pm
kingplaymaker said | August 28th 2012 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
I say keep Sharpe and Timani together indefinitely, until the next RWC if necessary.
Only replace Sharpe when an outstanding alternative appears.
August 28th 2012 @ 4:31pm
jeznez said | August 28th 2012 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
KP – my speculation is who should be the bench second rower. I doubt Sharpe will go on the end of year tour. He should definitely be there for the remainder of the RC but there needs to be a third second rower in the mix and I’m suggesting it is someone other than Rob Simmons’s turn to try and claim the jumper.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:48pm
MikeN said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:48pm | Report comment
In addition to what is being discussed here, there is Timani’s contribution at scrum time. Everybody seems to overlook the drive he provides in the scrum. The tighthead is much more effective with Timani behind him. Even Alexander was able to keep his side up with Timani behind him.
When Timani went off the previous week, the tighthead side immediately became a problem.
He has the potential to be like Brad Thorn, not a great lineout jumper but the real engine of the forwards. I agree he needs to keep developing but he has been impressive in both matches against the AB’s.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:25am
Dasher said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Never been a fan of Timani, but his last two games have really changed my mind.
August 28th 2012 @ 12:16pm
mervyn grimley said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
agree dasher, I’m the same with Timani. Nice to have an opinion changed for the better.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:10am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:10am | Report comment
j2 – i just watched the video in this link and i have to say i have more respect for timani now. he not only hits every ruck he can get to he’s also putting in tackles and running the ball. with all the cr4p forwards aus has i thought you’d be treasuring timani. timani is not the reason aus have lost the last 2 tests. what i like about timani is he doesnt seem to be influenced by his team mates and does his thing despite all the chaos and stupidy happening around him. a perfect team player in that he performs regardless of whether his teams having a good or bad game.
August 28th 2012 @ 3:04pm
Kuruki said | August 28th 2012 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Mania how on earth did you find any positives from that link? To me it showed someone covering allot of ground for nothing and doing it at a sunday stroll pace.
August 28th 2012 @ 9:24pm
Justin2 said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:24pm | Report comment
Yeah he had me scratching my head too
August 28th 2012 @ 5:58am
CamboUSA said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:58am | Report comment
August 28th 2012 @ 5:58am
CamboUSA said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:58am | Report comment
Further more , however , that all said !
It showed no depth in coaching from game one and two . No leadership , ie genia , and if the allblacks under a new coach can get better , then why r we being complacent With deans ..?. We r going no where , we r loosing any kiind of style of rugby , we have no attack , really chip kicks is a positive ? Mate I think if u read your article it reads as we have some good points but not a good or great team .. Really!!!!!!!! best not to dwell…. Do u believe in winning . You are only as good as your last performances and going on all this year , 3 and 3 is backwards and not moving forward . When will Australian rugby stop settling on sub par performances and demand excellence at its highest level playing for your country , And please pro journalist demands it as well . If the aru says that the bledisloe is the pinicle and O’Neil said that deans would be judged on winning it well what was there judgement ???? Quote ” no need to panic” that we where beaten by the allblacks and ” that we r only 2 games into the rugby championship” ??? Well news flash the last 2 game have shown two things we have lost the rugby champ and the bledisloe and never challenged the kiwis for it , rather than we would fall on our sword before doing that.
Its not that we r great and the allblacks are greater , no it more as allblacks r the best team in rugby right now which we all new and Australia has gone from challenging the world number 1 ranking to ” No need to dwell ” let’s just regroup and say wow “there to good ” , “no other coach in the world would have coached a team right now to beat the allblacks ” …… Really where’s the fight maybe in periods but not a full 80 minutes . And if you don’t play hard for the full 80 minutes and as a well oiled machine then how do you beat the kiwis and claim world number 1 . The allblacks have shown this for now years with there old coach and new that they would as a team put there body on the line to be number 1 and to hold onto the world 1 ranking …. What r we trying to do or where r we headed ……
August 28th 2012 @ 9:21am
Tissot Time said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:21am | Report comment
CamboUSA holding onto the number 1 ranking IMO would not be high on the list of motivators for an All Black. The Black Jersey, the Legacy, your rugby public, your teamate, commitment and striving for excellence would rate higher. I have posted before about an achievement focused AB and a success orientated Wallabies. Achievement is performing to the best of your ability (as RM said its what YOU bring to the park) and success is how others measure your achievements.
August 28th 2012 @ 9:47am
Brett McKay said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
sorry Cambo, you lost me at suggesting I read my own article. I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make in all that..
August 28th 2012 @ 6:18am
John Doe said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:18am | Report comment
One thing never talked about, especially here, is discipline. The Wallabies conceded 15 points in penalties last Saturday, the ABs should have conceded 3. For all the talk about a lift in aggression etc… it strikes me the principal problem in the Wallabies remains the forwards, not the backs. Yes some (most) of the decisions made by the backs were dumb, but if you have no confidence in your ball recycling, what else can you do but kick?
Getting pinged at the breakdown indicates dumb decision making too, and blaming it on the ref is to ignore the problem. If the Wallabies are going to beat South Africa in Perth, it’s not going to be by being aggressive I don’t think, it’s going to require getting some heads right, and playing traditional (smart) Wallabies forward play- its what us AB supporters always used to fear, that we might have the more skillful teams, but that we were always less rugby smart, especially in the forwards. How that aspect of Australian play’s gone missing I’m not sure, but until it’s regained, I predict it’s only going to get worse from here.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:29am
CamboUSA said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:29am | Report comment
Agreed
August 28th 2012 @ 2:22pm
jeznez said | August 28th 2012 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
John, those smarts have gone. They can’t be found in a week and the only thing that can is aggression. Need to be able to apply it for longer this week. I was very pleased by the way the forwards started, unfortunately the backs kicked everything away and the AB’s superior fitness got on top.
August 28th 2012 @ 2:31pm
Uncle Argyle said | August 28th 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Spoken like a true ‘Fatty’
August 28th 2012 @ 4:32pm
jeznez said | August 28th 2012 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
Nick, I’ll take that as the compliment I’m sure it was intended as!
August 28th 2012 @ 6:30am
chuck said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:30am | Report comment
Australia is not all doom and gloom Jake white is not your answer too putting the wallabies back too beating the all blacks ‘
Its far deeper then that you won two world cups two supper teams had success in the professional are you running second on the I.R.B. ladder its about building depth in Australia rugby get a program up and running what ever it takes consistency will not happen
and nearly is not good enough Injury at the moment is pretty high in Australian side no depth too replace some of these blokes remember people on this site saying we have a young side and they future for wallaby success well they feeling pretty down at the moment no one to replace them when injuries happen URGENT SECOND TEIR COMP REQUIRED I am a kiwi and I want rugby in Australia too be a success I would like them too expand the I.T.M comp too include australia but it like the blue sky is going too fall
down today for that too happen it could be put on the table when renegotiation at sanza come up just a thought.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:40am
CamboUSA said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:40am | Report comment
Mate there is plenty of talent in oz. we r lacking leadership at he highest level ie veterans like the allblacks and strength from our coach .
Enjoy this brilliant era in allblacks history for u know all to well when u loose the likes of mccaw , carter , nanu , sbw etc it is very very hard to replace them and takes along time to find them again . Just like what the Australian cricket team is going through right now , when u loose at different positions the greatest players ever , you just don’t reach into your depth of nz rugby and pull out another richie mccaw .
August 28th 2012 @ 6:50am
CamboUSA said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:50am | Report comment
But even the allblacks r better at re loading there side than the rest of the world .
August 28th 2012 @ 7:51am
chuck said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:51am | Report comment
mate the seeds are out of the ground in New Zealand rugby with READ CRUDAN ELLISON & SMITH ready too step in as you saw in the world cup using three five eight the replacement are in place Australia dont have that at the moment McCaw is a player of vast experience know doubt Read is the best replacement at the moment and the the more games he gets he could become one of the great captains as past captains have gave us ,talent in oz too step in where are they not getting any exposure they need a second tier comp leadership at the highest level say you is required well that’s a start its no use going down the drain and hoping that the cattle will perform for you if its not fixed Nearly will chase your arse if you dont get some sort of comp up and running.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:57am
flying hori said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:57am | Report comment
I.T.M comp. is ours, Aus needs to create thier own comp. its not up to NZ to prop them up, Boks have the Currie cup thats why both countries keep churning out good players who are coached well and are battle harden, Aus needs to try and create their own, they do have the player base
August 28th 2012 @ 7:24am
Shop said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
Pretty selfish attitude. If Oz were to enter a couple of teams into the ITM it would surely benefit the TV deals in NZ as well as rugby standards in Oz. A bit like the Warriors, soccer comp, basketball and there are probably a few others that intergrate both countries. It makes more business sense to join what is a successful model than set up a new one.
I thought it was a big shame that JON canned the APC after just one year and don’t expect him to start it up again. He’s too worried about the $$. We are sorely lacking a lower tier because Sydney and Brisbane clubs simply don’t cut it. I believe joining the ITM would benefit both sides of the detch.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:32am
Darwin Stubbie said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
The money isn’t there to do it … Unless the Aust teams are solely based in NZ for the duration of the competition or the ARU fund all the travel costs of all the teams – neither is going to happen …. Extra revenue (if any) wouldn’t cover the additional costs
The ARU need to be smarter they should engage the NZRFU a fund individual players into the current teams – how much would the likes of Dennis, Hooper, Gill etc improve with a couple of NPC seasons under their belts in established sides like BoP, H Bay, Akld etc
August 28th 2012 @ 7:41am
moaman said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
I have always wondered,when I hear calls for an Australian team in the ITM,what kind of team(s) would it/they be>? NZ ITM teams are NOT Super sides….they are rather well- balanced with talent widespread. We wouldn’t want a full-strength ‘Tahs team eg running roughshod through the land!
August 28th 2012 @ 7:51am
Darwin Stubbie said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:51am | Report comment
The tahs ? – surely you jest
August 28th 2012 @ 12:20pm
mervyn grimley said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Tahs team eg running roughshod through the land!
Funniest thing I’ve heard all day
August 28th 2012 @ 7:41am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
shop – its not selfishness its self preservation. aus clubs simply arent good enough to play in our ITM. ITM is financially vulnerable at the moment and the last thing we need is aus teams diluting the skill level and killing it off. and its NZ’s domestic comp. if aus were allowed to join we’d still have to have another domestic comp of our own. thats what your not getting. its a domestic comp not a transtasman comp.
aus needs its own grassroots and tier 2 & 3 competitions
i prefer stubbies idea as this means ITM isnt flooded with aus players and if they arent good enough they can sit the game out.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:30am
Shop said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
It is a good point and I would also prefer a genuine 3rd tier in Oz, but the current admin is clearly not in favour. I wouldn’t send a club side over as I doubt they’d be strong enough. Stubbie also makes a good point about too much travel which would definitely be a large cost factor. It probably makes more sense for individuals to go to improve their rugby but wouldn’t address the problem of widening rugby exposure in Oz.
August 28th 2012 @ 10:27am
Jutsie said | August 28th 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Instead of sending a club to the ITM, more players should have Christian Leilafano’s attitude and put themselves up for selection in one of the existing ITM teams.
Look what an improvement he has made by playing in the ITM instead most aus players who have an extended break between s15 seasons.
August 28th 2012 @ 10:30am
mania said | August 28th 2012 @ 10:30am | Report comment
shop and jutsie – agree. less disruption for the ITM and honestly if the players arent good enough they’ll get dropped. i’m not a fan of having an entire aus team in our domestic comp, you couldnt bench an entire team
August 28th 2012 @ 1:44pm
Markus said | August 28th 2012 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Agreed Jutsie.
Matt Toomua even ran on for Western Province in the Currie Cup a couple of seasons ago to get some gametime under his belt after injury. The Stormers even tried to sign him for the next season, too.
As well as providing a higher standard, gametime in the Currie Cup or NPC would provide exposure to a different mindset/attitude of player and game environment to that in Australia.
It also could have the unintended bonus of allowing inside knowledge on unsigned locals.
Henry Speight, for example, was initially brought to the Brumbies attention by Lealifano, and could very well have his first Wallabies cap in another 12 months.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:55am
Hurl said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:55am | Report comment
There already is an integrated transtasman rugby comp. Its called Super Rugby.
There has been mutual arrangements where Aus rugby players have joined ITM teams. A more formal arrangement here where the ARU provides funding would be better than full teams. IThe ITM is a well balanced competition now and from what I see your club teams would only be about the level of our Heartland competition
August 28th 2012 @ 10:31am
Jutsie said | August 28th 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Didnt see this post before I wrote mine. I agree with this argument. Much easier to send aus players to existing teams rather than bare the costs of constant travel and setting up new teams.
August 28th 2012 @ 1:11pm
flying hori said | August 28th 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Rubbish Shop! Learn to look after your own back yard, don’t use TV deals, $$ etc as reasons to join, it works for NZ with a small window to work in and when theres no Test rugby our ABs fall back into for more playing time, make it too big it will proberly fall over
August 28th 2012 @ 8:27pm
GWS Rugby said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
don’t be so bloody small minded. an expanded itm including tahs reds and brums would be a fantastic comp. the footy played is great to watch. in time it would blow the nrl away. or is that what’s worrying you…
August 29th 2012 @ 9:45am
Ryan said | August 29th 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
I think it is you who is in fact being small minded.
Why should NZ admit state teams to a provinicial competition?
Lets get this straight GWS the ITM cup is a provinicial competion where the Franchises in effect become different Unions within themselves.
Let’s look at the Hurricanes for example it becomes Taranaki, Wanaganui, Manawatu, Hawkes Bay, East Coast, Wairarapa Bush, Horowhenua Kapiti and Wellington City
Auckland becomes Northland, North Harbour and Auckland City.
Chiefs become Counties Manukau, Thames Valley, Bay of Plenty, King Country and Waikato.
I am totally against Australian teams being admitted to the ITM cup but I am not adverse to players coming across as has already been done by, James Hilgendorf, Brock James, Ed Jenkins, Christian Leilifano and this year Peter Betham playing for Tasman.
If Australian teams were added they would have to be broken down to provinicial teams you could not simply place your Super State teams into a provinicial competition.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:12am
WQ said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:12am | Report comment
Brett I can’t find any problems with anything in your article and believe yo have given a great summary of just where things are at for the Wallabies. I also think you have given a good account of just where the All Blacks are as well.
The question I think must be at the front of every bodies mind is about the future of Robbie Deans and does he still fit with the Wallabies?
Is he doing a great job with a relatively limited group of Australian Rugby players, or is he quite simply causing the problem?
August 28th 2012 @ 7:25am
Shop said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:25am | Report comment
The latter.
August 28th 2012 @ 9:51am
Brett McKay said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
WQ that’s true, pretty much every rugby article in Australia this week is coming to that question. Unfortunately, I don’t know that there is a clear answer – he is doing good (but not great) work with a very limited bunch, and he probably is causing some (but certainly not all) of the problems..
August 28th 2012 @ 11:00am
WQ said | August 28th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Your right Brett there is clearly a combination of issues with no one particular issue creating the problem. If we accept that, then I suppose it comes down to the strength of the relationship Robbie Deans has with John O’Neill. Will O’Neill protect him long enough to maybe have a few wins against South Africa and Argentina?
I would imagine that if they win their next 4 games things will calm down and everybody will accept that maybe, just maybe he should not get the sack.
Having said that if they lose 2 or 3 of the next 4 games, especially against Argentina at home things will cut up a bit rough for Robbie!
The unfortunate thing about this is I don’t believe that will have anything to do with his actual results as the Wallaby Coach. It will simply be about the average Australian Rugby fan not accepting loses to the best Rugby playing nation in the world.
August 28th 2012 @ 12:07pm
Brett McKay said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
it will be interetsing to see the general rugby public commentary if the next Wallaby coach also carries a 20% win ratio against the ABs after a few seasons..
August 28th 2012 @ 12:25pm
WQ said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
My point exactly.
August 28th 2012 @ 2:28pm
Mark W said | August 28th 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
But there comes a time when a new guy needs to have the shot at coaching that team. So you either put it down to they are too good so lets pay the same guy lots of money for the same results OR we try someone esle. It is time for somone else.