Will rugby league pillage rugby again?
By David Lord, 28 Aug 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Rugby League, Rugby Union, Super Rugby
185 Have your say
Aces Andrew Walker runs with the ball. AAP Image/Tony Phillips
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Remember the bad old days when rugby league pillaged the then defenceless amateur rugby code of its best players on a regular basis?
You had better, because there’s every chance rugby is in for a repeat dose with rugby league clubs about to be cashed up under the code’s new TV deal.
Not that too many current Wallabies will be targetted the way they are playing.
Most should be sacked.
But in many ways, those same Wallabies are playing for the 15-man code’s future.
What self-respecting teenager would want to be part of an easy-beat and frail Wallaby structure?
This must be an uppercut wake-up call to the ARU and all five Australian Super Rugby franchises to get off their respective butts and lock away talented schoolboys before the league swoops.
And league will; rugby can count on it.
And league’s potential plundering will be made easier with growing dissent within Wallaby ranks against Robbie Deans’ coaching methods and that of his support staff.
A weak cop-out when those at fault are the Wallabies themselves: their pride and passion for the jersey down the toilet.
Ignore all the media hype that this All Black side is one of the greatest in New Zealand’s illustrious rugby history. The image is bollocks.
There have been many great All Black sides over the years, that’s why the men-in-black have won 369 of their 489 internationals, or 76%.
Only the Wallabies, with 41 wins from 145 (28%), the Boks with 34 wins from 83 (41%), France with 12 from 51 (24%), the Lions with six from 38 (16%), England six from 34 (18%), and Wales three from 28 (11%), have ever beaten the All Blacks in history.
They are just far better than any other country at the moment and therefore not vulnerable to league raids.
Not so with the Wallabies.
To remind the older Roarers of those bad old days and tell the younger Roarers had bad it was:
Since World War 11: Trevor Allan, Ken Kearney, Rex Mossop, Arthur Summons, Mike Cleary, Jimmy Lisle, Dick Thornett, Kevin Ryan, Bob Honan, Phil Hawthorne, John Brass, Stephen Knight, Geoff Richardson, Ray Price, Michael O’Connor, Ricky Stuart, Scott Gourley, and Andrew Walker.
Other notable Wallabies to switch who didn’t become dual internationals like the above:
Wallaby captain Peter Sullivan, Tony Melrose, Brett Papworth, Russell Fairfax, Andrew Leeds, Mitchell Cox, Barry Stumbles, Tony D’Arcy, John Ryan, James Grant, and Darren Junee.
Carnage.
Since rugby turned pro in 1996 and could retaliate, just four Kangaroos won Wallaby selection: Wendell Sailor, Mat Rogers, Lote Tuqiri, and Timana Tahu.
One-way traffic.
So ARU, and the five Australian franchises, make sure that doesn’t happen again.
The ball is entirely in your respective courts for survival.
Have you seen the new Wallabies jersey? Want one of your own? We're giving away a brand new 2013 Wallabies jersey to one lucky Roarer, click here to go in the running to win.
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August 28th 2012 @ 5:04am
Sailosi said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:04am | Report comment
It would be hard to see it happening. If players were truly motivated by money than we would see a lot more move overseas. I saw yesterday that young Omar Salmakel (sorry about spelling) despite fielding offers from 4 nrl clubs and the rebels is returning to rugby and playing in Japan. The average wage bill of the French second division last season was 3.5 million euros so there is always opportunities to move around if your looking for money.
The only way a sport can pillage another sport is of the average wage is higher than the highest wage in the other sport.
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August 28th 2012 @ 6:13am
peeeko said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:13am | Report comment
Sailosi, not saying you are wrong but from what source did you get the figure of 3.5 mln euros for French second division rugby?
August 28th 2012 @ 7:18am
nickoldschool said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Agree with you Sailosi. Oz rugby has more to fear from overseas than league at home. France and Japan are still very attractive markets and many players are on their way there, whether they are at their peak (SBW, Taumalolo), nearing the end (Gerrard who is going to play in Japan’s 2div i think) or very young (Edwin Maka).
Dunno about the 3.5M you refer to, but to see that Pro D2 Lyon had enough cash to bring Chabal and Nallet despite being relegated proves that they had some funds. Read the same stuff about this afghan-born leaguie going to play union in Japan.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:36am
Sailosi said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Sorry it should be 3.5 aussie not Euro. That is why the average is a bit misleading. Its rumoured that Lyon are paying almost 7 million in wages and La Rochelle quite a bit as well. compared to say Auch which would be paying less than 2 million.
French Budgets 2012/13
August 28th 2012 @ 9:51am
Sledgeandhammer said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Wasn’t Omar a league player as a junior?
August 28th 2012 @ 12:11pm
Leo said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
No, He’s an Auckland Grammar rugby product as was Konrad Hurrell and Braxton Stanley.
August 28th 2012 @ 5:23am
chuck said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:23am | Report comment
Sailosi
Agree with you rugby union has a lot too offer now then they did in the amateur days as they say now the world is your Oyster in rugby union as a pro player
August 28th 2012 @ 5:48am
David Lord said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:48am | Report comment
Sailosi and chuck, complacency would be rugby’s biggest mistake hanging onto the old saying – “Play rugby and see the world”. While the quote is true, shoring up tomorrow’s reps would be an insurance policy against being raided.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:05am
chuck said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:05am | Report comment
You are right David but N.Z.R.U have weathered this storm before its nothing new when the other code come knocking .
As you know the all black selection policy is home grown players only when great players have left for greener pastures and still could be up for selection if you dont come back in too the fold offer their services its thanks and no thanks ..
August 28th 2012 @ 8:38am
Sailosi said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
David, i never said play money and see the world, i just stated that play rugby and earn good coin.
August 28th 2012 @ 11:40am
AGO74 said | August 28th 2012 @ 11:40am | Report comment
With the greatest respect to the Wallabies, it has nowhere near the status that the All Blacks jersey has across an entire nation, let alone its rugby supporting public.
August 28th 2012 @ 12:13pm
Leo said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
That goes for the Kangaroos jersey.
August 28th 2012 @ 5:47am
Pete said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:47am | Report comment
League will sign the best youngsters before they are allowed near inferior football programs like Super 15. They already do. I doubt the top line talent will be targets for any sane club.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:59am
p.Tah said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:59am | Report comment
They already do target the youngsters. League scouts already attend school boy rep games. They’re clever they don’t ask the parents to get their kids to switch they recommend they play both. Union scouts also attend junior RL rep tournaments and offer them scholarships to privates schools. Now RL are paying the school fees to these privates schools on the proviso these kids return to League. It works both ways.
Rugby has the ‘pathways to Gold’ a program (15-18yrs) to keep the top players that the ARU has scouted. Good concept but elements are missing. This was reflected in the recent U20s World Cup display. The kids get good training but in my opinion they don’t get enough high quality game time. The Kiwis, Saffas and English play in top quality domestic comps. Our boys, wearing their ARU track suits expect to move into a Super Rugby team when the 20s is finished, but there aren’t enough places. There are no Super rugby academies anymore and Super rugby should not be a development comp for Australia. As discussed ad nauseam on the Roar, the 3rd tier is the missing element. IMO it could be an academy development comp. As good as the Brisbane and Sydney club rugby scenes are they are not the level required to develop the kids. These comp are part of the development process but they cannot be the main development pathway.
In League, the pathways are mapped out. A kid coming of school wants to play in the Toyota cup and get paid for it. They are in the system and in the professional environment. The senior coaches can watch them, assist in developing them and slowly introduce them into first grade. It’s an attractive offer.
If Rugby wants to remain competitive it needs to provide better pathways. Reintroducing the academy sides (instead of the centralized academy) is a start. An academy side should not be just reserved for u20s, it should include the next best irrespective of
age. Then have an academy comp. ideally The Tahs and Reds would have two teams each. That’s a 7 team comp.
The ARU has just received a windfall for the Lions tour TV rights,. They should use them to improve Grassroots rugby and development pathways.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:40am
Ian Whitchurch said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
p Tah,
Speaking of club teams and development pathways, do you know about Central Districts in the SANFL ? They’ve deliberately set out to win the SANFL championship by recruiting players who wont get to the next level, because players that leave dont win games for you.
Association football more or less solves this with transfer fees., but rugby union will need another solution.
August 28th 2012 @ 12:44pm
p.Tah said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Hi Ian, no I wasn’t aware but it does sound very similar to the situation in the Shute Shield.
August 28th 2012 @ 9:13am
MAJB said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
I can’t really comment on League pathways but Sydney Rugby Union seems to have numerous programs to assist juniors into the senior ranks and most don’t seem to be that interested in League. I agree that funding is the problem for Rugby Union but that isn’t why most young men choose to play Rugby Union. My view is that League will pillage NZ’s Rugby Union ranks. The economy in NZ is not the best and I believe that NZers will play League closer to home than travel to France or Japan to play Rugby Union, for the roughly same amount of money that is being projected for League players in the NRL. However, I do agree with David in his assessment of the Wallabies and the ABs. League scouts would only be looking at a couple of the ABs and none of the Wallabies. A side that dominates field position and possession and can only score one try must have questions asked about that side attacking skills. If Dagg and Carter were off contract I would imagine that the NZ League side would be making them an offer. However, on David’s suggestion I don’t believe that most Australian Rugby Union juniors are interested enough in League and won’t be lured by money. This may change if the Australian economy collapses, which at this stage is unlikely.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:49pm
garth said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:49pm | Report comment
KIwi’s jersey just doesn’t have the prestige & when you’ve played for the best why then settle for second.
August 28th 2012 @ 11:28am
sheek said | August 28th 2012 @ 11:28am | Report comment
Speaking of pathwys & academies, it makes no sense having the next generation of players playing little or no rugby, as I understand it. There’s no substitute for practical experience. But more so, if it’s against older, canny, experienced players.
The lack of a national doemstic comp is hurting. It no longer cuts to say that the Sydney Shute Shield & Brisbane Hospitals Cup are our 3rd tier. Both comps, while willing, are shadows of their former glory.
There is a desperate need for something else stepping up to super rugby & the Wallabies. Talent needs to be funnelled into about 8-10 teams providing more intense competition. Also, more slots are needed for professional players, making rugby an attractive option to other football codes.
But don’t ask me about funding.
Other than the Wallabies, Waratahs, Brumbies, Reds, Rebels & Force playing the house down to bring more fans through the turnstiles, more sponsors knocking on the door, & more TV stations wanting to broadcast the game, I don’t know where the funding will come from!
August 28th 2012 @ 8:32pm
A said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
Good point Sheek! The Shute Shield and the Brisbane Hospitals cup certainly all need a revamp. Something that could be suggested is a format such as the premier league for the local comps where every team plays each other twice and the winner at the end wins the cup. The top 4 teams could go into a post season etc etc… You get my drift.
Alternatively these comps need an urgent revamp on how they could be presented on TV or streaming on the internet possibly; for instance look at the quality of the pitches these guys are playing on, not exactly appealing to the eye. In a perfect world these competitions need to attract their own rights deal which is pitched at competing against the Jersey Flegg/Toyota cup, a lot of innovation is required here to make the game a ‘product’ in order to raise the standard to a quality competition such as the Curry Cup or the NPC.
Likewise when it comes to acadamies – each super rugby side should have a group lf 25 players playing consistently against one another in the form of 7′s, 10 a side for the trials and then a regular competition and possibly a tour to NZ or SA; there is no wonder Australian rugby is suffering from a lack of depth. In a perfect world each province could have the funds to do this. A great read is a book called ‘Soccernomics’ by Simon Kuper, he goes in depth how the academies of Barcalona and Ajax have been very successful in monitoring and developing their talent, rugby should follow a similar model; which is already happening all across the rugby world.
August 28th 2012 @ 5:14pm
Sluggy said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
“Now RL are paying the school fees to these privates schools on the proviso these kids return to League.”
Didn’t Elsom and Barnes have a season or two in the league after school? Can’t hurt to do that. Might have helped Cooper. Or Beale, who seemed to go bulky and backwards the first couple of years at the Waratahs.
August 28th 2012 @ 9:05pm
mick h said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:05pm | Report comment
the kings school a few years back had a couple of wests tigers players at the school.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:05am
Bee Bee said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:05am | Report comment
Time to build a great wall Rugby Union. Or Those maurauding Mongolian Heathens from the outer suburbs (i.e. League supporters) will pillage your inner city Cafe’s, drink all your Latte’s and make off with your talented little Rich Rugby players.
Ha Ha. I love the paranoia.
Now back to my pillaging.
August 28th 2012 @ 5:18pm
Sluggy said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:18pm | Report comment
Didn’t the Roosters just pillage Sonny Bill? Mind you, reading some of the comments on league unlimited it wasn’t an entirely popular move.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:52pm
garth said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:52pm | Report comment
they are welcome to him, poor sods.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:57pm
Tommygun said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:57pm | Report comment
You serious mate? SBW was stolen by Union. To tell you the truth I don’t want him back in League. The bloke has no morals whatsoever, amazing amounts of talent, but no morals.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:18am
Leo said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:18am | Report comment
There is a huge different between the two sports back then and now. Rugby is now fully professional in both 15′s and 7′s. The players now get paid for doing what they love and more opportunities overseas as well. Throw in the rugby world cup, sevens world cup, under 20 world cup, olympics sevens and many tours and rugby international tournaments and competitions I think rugby is heading in the right direction as a sport with now strong club, provincials, regionals, franchises and cross-borders competitions and tournaments. Like Yazz singing “the only way is up”.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:34am
Ian Whitchurch said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Leo,
Australia has six professional rugby union sides. Assuming an average career length of 4 years, thats 24 jobs a year coming open.
August 28th 2012 @ 12:31pm
jeznez said | August 28th 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
I’m not following your logic there Ian. Each squad has 35 fully professional places and a further 5 Extended Playing Squad slots.
That makes for 240 contracts available each year. Following your suggestion of a 4 year career (a number I feel is quite short) then you would expect a quarter of those positions to become available each year which would be 60 new hires each year.
I’d suggest the number of new players coming in each year is somewhere inbetween 24-60 as I think the average career length is longer than 4 years.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:28am
tc said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:28am | Report comment
David the ARU has to ask itself what it wants Super Rugby to be ,is it a pathway to the wallabies or is it a world unto itself . Well the answer is pretty clear at the moment it’s a pathway to the Wallabies ,this we have come to learn is a mistake because if most of your Super teams are an easy beat year in year out all it will do is alienate the fans ,look at the Force .
I believe the answer lies with SANZAR ,with a SANZAR wide draft ,with Super Rugbys imminent expansion into new countries post 2016 we will have no option but to do this ,we cant have two US or Japanese teams coming in full of local players that would be insanity. So Australia needs to open its franchises up to more good foreign players so that it can offer a spectacle to Australian fans not dower kickathons . You know the old saying David success breeds success ,case in point Reds win Super Rugby ,Australia wins Tri Nations ,just my two cents worth.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:58pm
garth said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
Opening up Australian franchises to foreign players would just deny Australian players opportunities to play at that level. This is the same problem NH unions are just starting to realise, hopefully in time to stop. The same problem that has completely screwed English football, if all the best players in your competition are foreigners, how the hell are YOUR players supposed to develop. Better to bring in foreign coaches to train your coaches.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:45am
CamboUSA said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:45am | Report comment
if you where a league guy right now u must be loving how the wallabies aren’t doing well …… But be very carefull what u wish for cause when the wallabies become a championship team ie world champs , super rugby will blossom and ratings will go up and youth will be looking at there new heros of union . It will totally hurt league . Especially if super rugby builds teams in all states . How will rugby league grow by adding more suburbs to the league ..
August 28th 2012 @ 1:54pm
Warren said | August 28th 2012 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Same with AFL and American Football who have the same issue but this does not seem to hinder them. This “we are played all over the world” BS is why RU is going behind in Australia. It thinks all that has to be done is turn up and the masses will follow. Quite the opposite at the moment with people not prepared to watch an inferior product compared not only to RL but most other sports.
August 28th 2012 @ 9:10pm
mick h said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:10pm | Report comment
wrong mate with a salary cap of 7 million in the future rl will be well positioned and two new teams will add more opportunity.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:57am
Dasher said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:57am | Report comment
Why all the divisions!? Why not make it easier for players to change codes when they want to. I’m sure both codes will only better from it.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:22am
Stiffarm said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Completely agree,
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/08/28/sonny-bill-in-a-league-of-his-own/
We need more of this.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:59am
jus de couchon said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:59am | Report comment
Rugby may be languishing as Ausralias 4th or 5th code. So what. Thats unlikely to change much. If it crashs it crashs. The World will go on and the Wallabies will continue to surprise all their detractors come the next World Cuop and the one after and….
August 28th 2012 @ 7:04am
oikee said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:04am | Report comment
It is time leaguies got into union in NZ, it is time to break down the walls holding back so much talent in that country.
AFL would be well advised to follow our lead. A two pronged attack will quicken the cleansing.
The NZ superstar will arise from the ? muddy fields of union unwashed.
No more wasted bonding sessions, no more doing it for arnie. Stand and be counted NZ, their is a huge pot of gold waiting for you in AFL and NRL. Rise up Money Bills, arise.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:17am
p.Tah said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Oikee, if it’s money they want they would be heading Japan and France. Not dissimilar to Omar Slaimankhel from the Warriors.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/boom-young-warrior-omar-slaimankhel-to-follow-sonny-bill-williams-and-play-rugby-in-japan/story-e6frfgbo-1226457996164
August 28th 2012 @ 9:48am
Leo said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
You leaguies speaks as if your game don’t have up and coming talents in both countries. If your coming after rugby players in NZ where does that leaves your born and bread league kids? Like I said many times NZ rugby schools can handle anything thrown at them whether its the NRL, Japanese, French, British or NRL under 20.
Plenty of talents there for everyone because they are the best rugby players in the world at that age group.
August 28th 2012 @ 3:43pm
Emric said | August 28th 2012 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
You come offering 30 pieces of silver but remember this
no great power, no force of arms, no government, tyrant nor dictator could withstand against the simple bliss of an icon. The All Black Jersey is a icon, a legacy handed from one generation to the next, while the flame continues to be passed we will prevail.
You offer money .. we offer a legacy
August 28th 2012 @ 5:49pm
The Great G Nepia said | August 28th 2012 @ 5:49pm | Report comment
Yeah Right. This bloke Oikee really knows his stuff doesn’t he? It’s not as if kiwis don’t know what league is. For 100 years League has tried to attack Union in NZ, but at every stage on history’s page the assault has been repulsed with ease and League has gone home to think again. Kiwis know league, and have grown up with it on the telly and have rejected it time and time again as inferior rugby. Every little boy wants to grow up and be an All Black, conquering the fields of the world. Even now I read school boy rugby on Sky out rates Warriors games 5 to 1. The next SANZAR deal with dwarf the NRL deal and SupeRugby will expand to many countries, leaving league players to think whether stomping around Manly and Illawarra each weekend really is a big deal in the wide world of sports.
August 28th 2012 @ 9:16pm
mick h said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:16pm | Report comment
the next deal will strenthen sa and nz but what about aus another super rugby side in aus would further dilute the player talent
there currently are not enough quality players at the moment