Related coverage
The Wallabies training squad for The Rugby Championship & Nelson Mandela Challenge Plate Test against the Springboks in Perth has been announced.
NSW Waratahs prop Paddy Ryan and Western Force winger Nick Cummins have been added to the Wallabies training group which will assemble in Perth on Sunday ahead of the resumption of The Rugby Championship.
The pair have both previously been involved with the Wallabies this year, although Ryan missed some training time due to injury.
A squad of 31 has been named with Queensland Reds winger Dominic Shipperley and Reds teammate, midfield back Ben Tapuai, both coming back into the training squad.
Cummins and Shipperley will be seeking to replace injured winger Drew Mitchell.
Uncapped Queensland Reds loose forward Jake Schatz has also been ruled out due to a shoulder problem and will undergo further scans before a course of rehabilitation is charted.
Brumbies inside centre Pat McCabe makes a welcome return, after injury ruled him out of the two Bledisloe Cup Tests but won’t be considered for selection until Australia’s match against Argentina at Skilled Park on the Gold Coast on September 15 at the earliest.
Six players – Caderyn Neville, Radike Samo, Mike Harris, Rob Simmons, Saia Fainga’a and Ben Tapuai, will tune up for their commitments in Perth playing club rugby in their home states tomorrow.
The match squad of 22 players for the Perth Test will be named Tuesday afternoon.
Australia has won its last four Tests against South Africa and will set a new record for the most consecutive wins achieved against the Springboks should the Wallabies win in Perth.
Unbeaten in 2012, the South African squad, under new coach Heyneke Meyer, arrives in Perth on Sunday.
The Wallabies training squad which will assemble in Perth on Sunday to prepare for The Rugby Championship/Nelson Mandela Challenge Plate Test match against South Africa at Patersons Stadium on Saturday September 8 is:
Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW Waratahs), Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels), Digby Ioane (Queensland Reds), Dominic Shipperley (Queensland Reds), Nick Cummins (Western Force), Rob Horne (NSW Waratahs), Ben Tapuai (Queensland Reds), Anthony Fainga’a (Queensland Reds), Mike Harris (Queensland Reds), Pat McCabe (Brumbies), Berrick Barnes (NSW Waratahs), Quade Cooper (Queensland Reds), Nick Phipps (Melbourne Rebels), Will Genia (Queensland Reds, captain), Scott Higginbotham (Queensland Reds), Radike Samo (Queensland Reds), Michael Hooper (Brumbies), Liam Gill (Queensland Reds), Dave Dennis (NSW Waratahs), Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds), Nathan Sharpe (Western Force), Kane Douglas (NSW Waratahs), Caderyn Neville (Melbourne Rebels), Sitaleki Timani (NSW Waratahs), Ben Alexander (Brumbies), Paddy Ryan (NSW Waratahs), James Slipper (Queensland Reds), Benn Robinson (NSW Waratahs), Saia Fainga’a (Queensland Reds), Stephen Moore (Brumbies), Tatafu Polota Nau (NSW Waratahs).
Sport, all day long. Does this sound too good to be true? We're searching for a Group Sales Manager to lead our team in Sydney. If you're a sales star who doesn't mind a hit, kick, throw, or cycle, we want to hear from you. Apply now.
Have you seen the new Wallabies jersey? Want one of your own? We're giving away a brand new 2013 Wallabies jersey to one lucky Roarer, click here to go in the running to win.
- Explore:
- Rugby Union, wallabies
August 31st 2012 @ 10:13am
GWS said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Go the honey badger. They showed an excellent hit he put on for southern districts on the rugby club last night. He wont die wondering…
August 31st 2012 @ 10:40am
Harry said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
I wish Cummins the best, but if you watched that entire game instead of a Rugby Club highlight, you would have seen that Cummins was actually quite ordinary – I think its reasonable to assume that if a bloke is to playing test rugby then he has to be fairly dominant at club rugby level. The only centres to standout in Sydney club rugby on the weekend were Tom Carter and Mitch Inman.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:51am
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Carter and Inman?? that doesnt say much about the quality of club rugby in sydney. Although inman has looked alright (not great) at the rebels this year despite the musical chairs at 10 and 12.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:02am
Harry said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
And that precisely is my point. Club rugby is not a good preparation for test rugby. Slightly better than nothing but way way behind the ITM or Currie Cup.
I believe the lack of a meaningful 3rd tier of rugby competition in Australia has been discussed before!
August 31st 2012 @ 11:06am
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Yeah good point, no arguments here.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:39am
Atawhai Drive said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:39am | Report comment
If Cummins is the answer, what is the question?
Harry makes a good point that Cummins didn’t dominate in the Shute Shield, and that Mitch Inman and Tom Carter stood out (although Carter couldn’t resist unleashing his inner goose in the direction of rival supporters).
Now that the Shute Shield has come up in the conversation, how sad that Rugby News is about to cease publication after 89 years. A sign of the times? Definitely.
As is the default by the Gordon fourth grade team last weekend.
August 31st 2012 @ 3:03pm
Kuruki said | August 31st 2012 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
Using performances in club rugby cant always be depended on as an accurate yardstick of how a player will perform at International level.
Some players need the extra motivation to lift themselves. Some players will play consistently well across the board, others could lift a notch or two when playing for their country.
One recent example Sam Cane. Could not even dethrone Latimer for the Chiefs but was an absolute standout for the All Blacks, it was the best game he played all year.
Untill someone is given a chance you can’t write them off.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:40am
The Battered Slav said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Really, I’ve never read any opinion on here about the lack of a third tier comp in Aus……
But in al seriousness, agreed completely. Unless you’re dominating Syd/Bris first grade, and I do mean dominating, you’ll probably struggle at test level, especially playing the Boks at their ‘home away from home’.
Further evidence that the ARU is more interested in short term financial gain by getting ex-pat Saffas to attend en masse in Perth giving the boks a great advantage. This game should have been played on the East Coast, or Melbourne.
Please ARU. stop playing the Boks in Perth and the ABs in Melbourne. The Wallabies having a proper home ground advantage is vital in this home/away series.
Idiots.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:02pm
Matt said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
Sav, I actually think the Perth option is good for a number of reasons.
The first positive is the one you’ve highlighted, that the crowd should be a strong one, with a healthy mix of Saffas to add more noise. But of course it will also provide test match rugby to WA, which is vital to enhance the presence of the game there and insire local kids and families to follow the sport. Especially given the poor showing of the Force, it is important to give the fans something to get excited about.
And with a week off leading into next weekends test the travel factor isn’t there to gain much by playing the Boks on the east coast. So the only real down side is that they might have more Supporters than if the game was played in Sydney/Brisbabe. But realistically the Wallabies should still be able to get up and win this game without that slight advantage?
September 2nd 2012 @ 11:11am
Gatesy said | September 2nd 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
That’s because all the good ones are playing in the Canberra Comp
August 31st 2012 @ 1:44pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
but we know that Cummins is not ordinary in S15, especially against saffas. Deans has said S15 form is not a guide for Test selection (which I think is ridiculous), if that is the cast then Shute Shield form?
The bloke is playing in a team he hasn’t seen for 8 months bla bla bla.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:09pm
Sledgeandhammer said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Agree with above. People judge him on his super rugby form over the entire season, not a one off club rugby match.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:35am
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
Right. Paddy Ryan who has played all of 2 games this year is picked over Starter Greg Holmes.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:43am
Harry said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:43am | Report comment
He’s looked great in training, has excellent background, has dominated a few club front rowers in the Sydney comp, and most importantly is imbued with that fantastic Waratahs culture. Thats what counts.
I despair.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:44am
redsnut said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Makes you wonder what’s going on, doesn’t it.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:59am
jameswm said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:59am | Report comment
Paddy Ryan plays tight head and Greg Holmes plays loose head. I don’t disagree that Holmes has more rights to be in the squad than Ryan, but you have to compare apples with apples.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:53am
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Slipper has been playing THP all year. Deans uses Alexander as a THP. Why bring another Specialist THP into the team when the problem is with Benn Robinson at LHP?
August 31st 2012 @ 1:00pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
I’d be pretty pleased from the current squad with the props for SA being:
1. Slipper
3. Ryan
17. Robinson
Think there is buckleys of that happening and it will be Robinson in 1 and Slipper/Alexander sharing 3. Regardless the Wallabies scrum should go quite strongly against the SA pack. Reckon we should earn at least two scrum penalties and have a chance at taking at least one tighthead with the likely front row.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:09pm
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
I don’t rate the Bok scrum at all, even if they had BdP I still wouldn’t rate them. I question Ryans work around the field, but he does scrum well. Personally my ideal props for this game would be Holmes (best LHP in the country right now, not explanation needed) and Slipper at THP. Ryan is a better scrummager than Slipper, but I have yet to seen him put in the work that Slipper can around the park. I think that is going to be pretty key next week. The Boks have been playing the same slow, behind the gain-line rugby this year as they have since 2009. A fit and uptempo forward pack is key.
Slipper plays THP for the Reds yet everyone sees him as a LHP. Why is that?
August 31st 2012 @ 2:22pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
Jiggles, even with Horwill behind him he I don’t think he ever looks completely comfortable at THP.
The best I’ve seen him scrummage was against Castrogiovanni and Slipper was wearing 1, I’d really like to see him spend a season of super rugby at LHP but with Holmes and Daley in the squad it just isn’t going to happen at the Reds.
ps – the props I’ve named above are from this squad. If we look at fit props across the country I go Holmes in 1, Ryan in 3 and Slipper on the bench – although I’d accept the argument that we should start Slipper based on experience and let Ryan come off the bench.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:31pm
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
He definitely looks more comfortable there thank Holmes, thats for sure. He is still very young, like Ryan and Palmer, so perhaps a couple of seasons at 3 and he will work it out.
I wish Daley would learn to scrum, thats for sure…
August 31st 2012 @ 11:56am
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Jigs – I second what jameswm said – they play different positions. Ryan has come in for the injure Kepu.
Alexander and Ryan are there for tighthead, Slipper to cover both sides and Robinson for loose.
Personally I’d drop Alexander and bring in Holmes to apply selection pressure on Robinson. Unfortunately he is the anti-Mumm, anti-Baxter and anti-Brown all rolled into one. No matter how Holmes plays in Super Rugby he can’t get picked, while the other blokes couldn’t get dropped1
August 31st 2012 @ 12:12pm
kingplaymaker said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
jeznez isn’t there an argument though that Alexander won’t face that much scrum pressure from South Africa and is better in the loose than his rivals?
I’m kind of playing devil’s advocate with this one but interested to hear what you think.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:21pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
I’m not sure he is any better in the loose than Ryan, Holmes and Slipper. Against Robinson sure but not against the other three. (two or three seasons ago when he was either top or second top try scorer for the Brumbies then sure but not lately).
I think the others are better scrummagers and better in the loose, I think he and Robinson need to be dropped until they come back to their best. In their best form they are two of the best props in the country but they are a long way below their best at the moment and they should not be selection certainties.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:23pm
kingplaymaker said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Fair enough jeznez
August 31st 2012 @ 12:30pm
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Jez do u think part of robinson’s issue is that they delayed to operation his ACL last year in the vain attempt of getting him to play on without the op?
Gotta question the professionalism of the ARU and NSWRU in regards to managing the injuries of robinson, TPN and Mitchell.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:39pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
Jutsie, I think he just hasn’t done the work to get fit. Delaying the ACL operation meant he didn’t have as much of an off-season but I don’t think that is the problem now, it is effort on the training paddock pure and simple.
Robinson under McKenzie at the Tahs got dropped back when he was near his peak as he wasn’t putting in enough. Literally Robinson was the Wallabies first choice but got benched at the Tahs behind Dunning as McKenzie saw him slipping.
Robinson reacted perfectly and did the work and forced his way back into the Tahs and the Wallabies in great form. However now there is no selection pressure on him and he is coasting and clearly carrying a gut. I love Fatcat but am certain that we are not getting the best of him at the moment.
Dropping him for Holmes (who I think will do a great job) and creating real competition for the 1 jersey will be better for both the players, the team and the fans.
Injury management particularly of Mitchell has been criminal – such a shame.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:08pm
jameswm said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Jez it’s a big Deans problem – he doesn’t reard from enough or dump guys who need a kick in the butt. He lets underperforming guys stay on for too long.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:28pm
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
Good points Jez, there is a fine line between showing loyalty which leads to team unity and playing favourites which only breeds contempt amongst the playing group.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:06pm
Uncle Argyle said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Jez,
mate I am happy for Paddy Ryan. He is a good prospect for the future and his selection over Greg Holmes should be not seen as unjust as Ryan is a THP and Holmes a LHP. We should remember NSW v QLD at Brisbane earlier this year. Ryan had a very good last 20 minutes of the game in the set piece and around the park.
Greg Holmes was subbed off for Ben Daley at the 60 minute mark. Prior to that Holmes had kept young Ryan quiet and NSW Skipper Robinson was a silent partner on the evening. Ryan’s selection stands on its own, Robinson’s does not. Again the best LHP in this country is left out. Just mind boggling really.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:26pm
Sam Taulelei said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Does anyone know who out of the propping contenders for the Wallabies have signed contracts with the ARU?
Australian players now have to sign with their provinces first and then negotiate contracts with the ARU who are also cutting back on issuing Wallaby contracts.
If you’re paying someone extra to play for the Wallabies, it’s reasonable to assume they’ll get preferential selection over someone who hasn’t yet.
Even with injuries to the squad, there’s enough inconsistency and left field selections to make you wonder what else is going on. eg. Quade Cooper who has only signed with the Reds and not yet negotiated an ARU contract.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:49pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
Sam, I’ve looked and can’t find the list. What I do know is that there are 32 contracted with ARU top ups. The official ARU web-site has 30 players on its Wallabies profile page. The front rowers there are Alexander, Kepu, Robinson and Slipper – the usual suspects.
That said Kane Douglas profile is there and I’m a little surprised to see him there if this is the official group.
If those 30 are the official group then I wonder who the two players not pictured are – perhaps Rocky Elsom and Dan Vickerman?????
August 31st 2012 @ 12:57pm
Sam Taulelei said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Ssshhhh don’t tell KPM but it’s Slater and Inglis
August 31st 2012 @ 1:01pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
ha ha ha, nice.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:23pm
Brett McKay said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Jez, I’ve tried looking for that list too, and those Wallaby profiles are generally the last squad selected. So that current one you’ve seen would presumably be the Bledisloe training squad (plus the obvious Ws who ae injured..)
August 31st 2012 @ 2:48pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
Thanks Brett, makes more sense given some of the guys on the list.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:02pm
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Sam – The ARU has come out publicly criticizing Cooper for this short but sweet press conference, and the lack of spark in the Wallabies backline, saying he better shape up or he wont get his desired top up. Personally I think this is ARU and JON BS as Cooper is yet to sign with the ARU. This is coupled with the constant press releases saying JOC is the incumbent and preferred 10… since when???
Everything Cooper ever says to the AAP/News Crew gets spun into something outrageous, and it was Barnes who was taking control at first receiver and kicking away all the ball. The number of times Barnes took control, you cannot be in doubt that it wasn’t a pre-meditated plan.
The point is that right now the ARU stinks. Coupled with the inconsistant selections, it seems favourites are definitely being played. Whether Deans is involved or just kowtowing to Big John is debatable…
August 31st 2012 @ 1:19pm
Justin2 said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
Jigs – I missed the “ARU has come out publicly criticizing Cooper for this short but sweet press conference”
Where was that? The sooner Barnes is gone the better. Courageous but just doesnt get the job done IMO against the best and has little history of winning or getting others around him to shine.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:30pm
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
It was in a Fox sports article on monday.
Personally I don’t blame Cooper for that, and his conference. The AAP/News crew take the smallest quote, spin it, and blow it out of proportion with an outrageous headline. Take the Hansen article posted on this site yesterday, for example, and the different headlines put on top of it depending on the market.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:02pm
Harry said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
Cooper was also attacked and belittled in the SMH yesterday – with the full support of the ARU and its media unit.
That is shameful stuff and shows just how badly these guys at the ARU have lost the plot. The Quadester may well be a bit of a goose and has the infruiating Khoder Nasser as manager, but that sort of stuff ios unnecessary and drags the whole code down.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:51pm
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
My point is, Jez, that a THP is not what is needed. not regarding where Ryan or Holmes can play.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:19pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
I hear you. I guess my point is that I believe Ryan should be there as a THP option given the injuries to Kepu and Palmer.
The player I would drop for Holmes is Alexander. Looking at the propping group I rank them with 1 as best of the group, 5 as worst of the group:
Robinson – 2 LHP, 5 THP
Holmes – 1 LHP, 4 THP
Alexander – 4 LHP, 3 THP
Slipper – 3 LHP, 2 THP
Ryan – 5 LHP, 1 THP
I see Alexander as the clear weak link in the group being 4th best at LHP and 3rd best at THP respectively.
I would have both Holmes and Ryan in the squad – I don’t see it as a case of either or, I think you take both and lose BA.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:24pm
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
Yeah thats fair enough. I agree with those rankings too.
August 31st 2012 @ 6:16pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
Where do you place Palmer jez?
September 1st 2012 @ 1:41am
jeznez said | September 1st 2012 @ 1:41am | Report comment
I think Palmer is the best scrummaging tighthead in the country, he was solid all year with the relatively lightweight Carter behind him, was rock solid with Timani behind him against Scotland before Alexander came on and got smashed.
He is a good scrummager, I particularly like him because he holds his shape under pressure, he actually gives his locks a chance to recover, rather than giving up the fight and conceding a penalty.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:46am
Justin2 said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Taps, McCabe centre pairing anyone? Never happen… but p@ss off Barnes and Horne.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:50am
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Hear hear!
Mccabe may have his doubters but he has the passion and agression that is sadly missing in most of our players and taps has been the best centre in aus for the last 2 years.
August 31st 2012 @ 3:25pm
Kuruki said | August 31st 2012 @ 3:25pm | Report comment
I never had an issue with McCabe as a player it was his combination with Horne that i had an issue with. For me something like 10 Cooper 12. McCabe 13 Tapuai would be a solid combination.
August 31st 2012 @ 10:50am
Brett McKay said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:50am | Report comment
could do a lot worse, J2. I like the inclusion of Cummins and Shipperley, too..
August 31st 2012 @ 11:01am
jameswm said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Agree could do a lot worse than a McCabe Taps centre pairing.
The best we have I think is Leali’ifano at 12 and Taps at 13, but with CL injured, that could be the best centre pairing we’ve got.
Taps is the only person I’ve seen for 2 years who has the all round package to play at 13 internationally. McCabe and AAC are the only other options there.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:06am
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:06am | Report comment
I would have CL at 10, could do no worse than our current options
August 31st 2012 @ 11:17am
kingplaymaker said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
It certainly couldn’t be much worse than the current one.
I rarely criticise Deans but one thing I will say is that he should be bolder with his selections, especially as his boldest selections have been some of his most successful. Given his pitiful resources, he should aim to enlarge those resources in any way possible and that is what he has done in the past, but has somehow stopped doing recently.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:27am
jameswm said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Nah I think with a decent team around him Quade is the man for 10. But he can’t be expected to do it on his own against strong opposition. CL at 12 is a good defeder and takes the pressure off QC as a playmaker. Then you’ve got Kurtley at 15 as well, and even JOC who I’d have on the wing.
My backline with everyone fit would be as below. And I really think it’s pretty tough to argue against. I really wish CL didn’t get injured, we need him. What we lack the most overall is big, mobile, bruising 5/6/8s. Palu isn’t fast enough, Higgers isn’t big enough. I have some hope for Neville but he’s got a fair way to go.
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Leali’ifano
13. Tapuai
14. JOC
15. Beale
20. ???
21. McCabe (covering centre, CL, Beale and JOC all cover 10)
22. Mitchell (wing and fullback, though you’ve got enough versatility with the others)
August 31st 2012 @ 11:35am
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
thats decent too, Im a QC fan too but his sporadic performances are starting to sway me against him.
But I could live with that backline, mccabe could also cover wing and I dont think its likely that mitchell will be back for the wallabies, out for 12 months again, i think his test days are over (unfortunately).
With mccabe on the bench covering centres and back three you could almost go a 5/2 split and have ben lucas covering 9,10, 15. He is no worse than our other half back options.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:12pm
kingplaymaker said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
No Joe Tomane jameswm?
August 31st 2012 @ 1:16pm
Jagman said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
I know you said “with everyone fit” but I think you can write Mitchell off all together. He stuck around for the Lions tour and now has a 12 month recovery time. He’ll finish that and join his mates in france. That is if he ever plays again. Am sorry for the guy, he was in career best form when higginbotham took him out without the ball.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:12pm
jameswm said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
OK ditch Mitchell if that’s a 12-month injury. Poor bugger – I feel for him.
KPM no Tomane, not really close at the moment. He needs to prove himself in Super rugby first, which all of those I’ve listed have, with the possible exception of Tapuai, who I am picking partly on potential.
I can live with a Lucas/McCabe bench and a 5-2 split for sure. I think Lucas is a terrific player, just a bit lost at the moment.
The alternative is starting CL at 10 and McCabe at 12 and bringing on Quade as a super-sub, but I think with his confidence back you need QC there all game. The longer he’s on, the more chance of him creating tries.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:14pm
jameswm said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
And I’ll add that Leali’ifano is a crucuial part of that backline. He’s strong and direct enough to play that sort of game at 12, but also a creative 10. It’s like having an all-rounder there.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:39am
Dasher said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:39am | Report comment
August 31st 2012 @ 11:21am
Dasher said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
What about a Taps-Cummins pairing to make room for Shipperley on the wing?
August 31st 2012 @ 1:20pm
Justin2 said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Has potential too. Someone said the Cummins Sydney form has been average but from what I saw (which wasnt a stack) he breaks tackles and hits hard, a real competitor.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:21pm
Jagman said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Cummins is not a good OC in my opinion. He often looks like he doesn’t know where to stand in defence and gets found out there. He’s a good tackler don’t get me wrong but his awareness of the position is something I noticed in the few force games I watched this year. He scored the winning try for Southern Districts last weekend by outrunning the winger from his OC position, that won’t work at harder level. He could have drawn the defender and set up his winger, something our Wallabies really need, but I guess he thought he didn’t need to. I’d only put him on the wing at test level.
August 31st 2012 @ 6:22pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 6:22pm | Report comment
he only started playing 13 this season Jagman. Still learning, but he has demonstrated potential – big, strong, powerful yet elusive runner.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:54pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
thats my selection too. 14 Shippers 13 HB 12 Taps. Stiletto, Silk Glove and Iron Fist
August 31st 2012 @ 1:34pm
Justin2 said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
13 is the crux for me. I think Taps, being a good ball player is made for 12 as he is just as strong a runner which to me is more important than actually being a 2nd play maker. You dont need that with Coper, Genia and potentially a fit KB at 15.
SO who plays 13? Right now Horne just isnt it. He has never played a blinder, never beats a man, makes tackles but misses a few too. He just isnt the answer and again he appears a Deans favourite and it will be 2 more years of putting up with him if Deans stays until he comes to the realisation he is average. Doesnt do anything at Super level so how is he going to do anything at Test level?
Cummins is the unkown at this level, Id have to see more but is strong in contact, much stronger and bigger, faster than Horne. And frankly it would be impossible for his skills to be any worse. There are others like Smith and longer term some of KPMs favourites but they just haven’t played enough football to be considered right now despite their potential potential
McCabe is the other option – let me say he should not have been playing 12 last year for AUS. It was just wrong, no combination with Cooper and our attack was non-existent partially due to this. His defence is ridiculous, though I actually saw him miss a few this year which did surprise me. However Larkham has done a wonderful job “coaching” him and building his skills to a point where he and CL did some lovely bits of interplay with each other. Just shows what can be done with a coach who has the vision and capability to teach the plays that Larkham has to the Brumbies.
I also think PM is suited more to 13 as his footwork isnt great in traffic, so he gets more space at 13. Yes he may not set up the wings like Taps would but when in doubt I prefer to put the best footballers closer in and get more touches than the lesser lights. Think under 7s – no point having the star on the wing if he never gets the ball! And anyway with the players inside him the wingers will get enough pill (a hell of a lot more than what Barnes and Hornes would provide).
SO to those who dont believe we have any options, rubbish. We have plenty of options and talent. Much of it is being ignored and or not coached correctly…
August 31st 2012 @ 1:53pm
Justin2 said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
And this all depends on having JOC on a wing to kick goals too.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:16pm
jameswm said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
J2 Just because Taps can create doesn’t mean you rule him out at 13. I think he has the best all round skill set to play there. Conrad Smith isn’t your classic running 13 either.
August 31st 2012 @ 3:33pm
Justin2 said | August 31st 2012 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
I appreciate that, not saying he wouldnt do a fine job its merely my opinion he is better suited to 12.
August 31st 2012 @ 6:25pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 6:25pm | Report comment
the problem is withMcCabe at 12, Taps and wing (Judas, Shippers, Cummins etc) will never get the ball
August 31st 2012 @ 3:33pm
Kuruki said | August 31st 2012 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
“Knock knock” (Deans front door)
“Who’s there?”
“It’s me Digby”
“Digby who?”
“Exactly that’s why you cant win a Bledisloe you muppet”
Get the best ball carrier in your country into center and give him the bloody ball ffs.
September 1st 2012 @ 7:08pm
Dave said | September 1st 2012 @ 7:08pm | Report comment
Brilliant!
August 31st 2012 @ 10:53am
Brett McKay said | August 31st 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Interesting only two halfbacks picked, Nic White is apparently fit again and playing for Queanbeyan..
August 31st 2012 @ 1:56pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Ig White is fit, I would select him ahead of Genia. I really believe they all need a good swift kick up the derriere, with Genia and Robinson being the best “messengers”
August 31st 2012 @ 2:21pm
Brett McKay said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
he’d certainly be in front of Phipps, in my team at least Bison…
August 31st 2012 @ 6:28pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
sorry I meant I would have him instead of Phipps in the squad, and this week I would select him instead of Genia. I’m really concerned at the mindspace of Genia ATM he has the thousand yard stare – see that penalty brainsnap. Ans he is sitting over the ruck laying an egg. All symptoms of brain is tired.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:18am
Johnno said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:18am | Report comment
I love Pat Mcabe is back one of favourites. So many Roarers here love Berrick Banres believe his is world class. please don’t make me laugh even harder. Some roarers here want barnes at 12 this weekend marking big 6’3 Steyn. Barnes is a hack who doesn’t belong at test footy at no 12 period, he is useless. Pat Mcabe a man who is aggressive, 6’1, is the best 1 on 1 defender in world rugby with conrad smith, and you blokes some roarers here want Barnes ahead of Mcabe next weekend. Well all i can say is i am glad your know where near th wallaby camp or running the aru if you think barnes is a better players than mace , makes me laugh.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:31am
Dasher said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Mate what a spray. Did you watch Tri Nations 2007-2009?
August 31st 2012 @ 11:32am
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:32am | Report comment
Johnno I share your manlove for pat mccabe, champion bloke we could do with a few more players with his guts and determination.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:52am
Funk said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:52am | Report comment
I’d actually like to see Harris get a bit of time at 12. He can run some good angles, can crash ball, can pass and can also kick. definately worth a try. He has also got a bit of utility as well can play 10 (though he’s definately better at 12) and can also play 15.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:57pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
I agree completely Funk, Harris should get a run at 12 instead of Barnes. It also is a Reds axis with Digby at 11. Cooper would be more relaxed
August 31st 2012 @ 12:14pm
kingplaymaker said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
Barnes’ nerves seemed to go in that match, while Cooper’s were more solid, reversing the normal perception.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:40pm
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
KPM I am a fan of cooper but he was far from solid on saturday, not finding touch with a penalty kick is a cardinal sin IMO.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:36pm
Justin2 said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
Completely agree with that Juts. Notice again though that Carter did that in Sydney? Shows when you win, regardless of performance that people will leave you alone.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:59pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
I thought Cooper was terrible, bounced off tackles like an U12, refused to enter a ruck defending a push over, missed kicks, sitting out on the wing etc.
I said above that with Harris at 12 and Digby at 11, he could maybe relax a bit
August 31st 2012 @ 2:42pm
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
J2 also carter has the runs on the board, cooper like many other wallabies has all the potential but is yet to deliver on test stage on a consistent basis. They have to strive and reach the level of perfection that carter has been at for so many years before we can ignore blemishes like that as a one off.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:58pm
Jiggles said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
Thats not exactly true. He has been a solid test player. Last year in the semi, besides the kick off he actually had a good game compared with the rest of the team. This year he was pushed out of first receiver by Barnes who had a brain melt down, Was Cooper even in that game? He didn’t do anything wrong, but he wasn’t even there. Against the ABs in Brisbane he was good, and in most other tests he has been very solid.
August 31st 2012 @ 3:08pm
Jutsie said | August 31st 2012 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Im not signalling out cooper but most of the wallaby squad none of them have been consistently performing at test level so mistakes like out on the fulls at kick off time, missed tackles, missing touch with a penalty, etc stick out more than when a carter makes the same mistakes.
And generally I am a cooper supporter and like you II prefer him to barnes at 10, infact i was arguing against barnes even being at 12 last year when most wanted him there during the WC. He just doesnt have the body to cope with test rugby nor the dynamism.
But I am starting to also question after WC and saturdays performance whether cooper is the answer either.
I just think he needs to mature mentally to cope with the pressure of test rugby, I saw his invisibility on sat nite from another perspective. To me it seemed like a bloke who cracked under the intense pressure at the start of the game and went into hiding.
Even if it was the deans game plan for barnes to play at. if cooper had the confidence and maturity to be a test 10 he would have thought “screw it” and demanded the ball at first receiver.
August 31st 2012 @ 6:02pm
jeznez said | August 31st 2012 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
Jutsie, Cooper got absolutely smashed in a tackle during that first half and I thought he went quiet after that.
Yes there has to be a level of personal responsibility but I was very frustrated that our senior guys in Genia and Barnes (who were standing either side of him) couldn’t help bring him back into the game.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:29am
David T said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
I thought O’Connor was supposed to be right for the Boks in Perth. Must have missed the latest news on him.
August 31st 2012 @ 11:33am
Pierce said | August 31st 2012 @ 11:33am | Report comment
Hair appointment clash?
August 31st 2012 @ 12:41pm
Mango Jack said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Lol
August 31st 2012 @ 12:10pm
Keith of WA said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
I’m gonna go out on a limb here… but as we seem to have a size and skill problem in the backs, are there any forwards around that could be skilled enough in an offload and has the size to be shifted? I mean players like Higgers clearly like to camp out there… (not that I’d regard his dropping of the ball as an asset), but are there any fringe forwards with the necessary skills to be converted?
August 31st 2012 @ 1:24pm
The Battered Slav said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Higgers certainly plays loose enough to be counted among backs, but doesn’t appear to possess the requisite ball handling skills.
However, he doesn’t mind the old chip over the top and aimless grubber, so perhaps he’d fit right in with our current crop….
August 31st 2012 @ 1:33pm
Jagman said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
L Timani could be a handy inside centre if you just want to use him as a crash ball and heavy tackler. Gill would be ok, I’ve seen Hooper play that position for Manly too, he’s fast enough; was the second fastest player at the brumbies.
August 31st 2012 @ 12:17pm
HUW said | August 31st 2012 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Their is definitely the depth needed in that squad and in the Australian conference, dingo deans does his best to pick to worst combination which makes things a lot worse than they need to be!
Instead of trying out the same duds and getting the same results he should try something new and select on form not reputation.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:35pm
PaulT said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
I would like to see Dave Dennis get a run as lock. He’s a bit too tall for blindside flank. By this I mean the he struggles to get low body height when competing for the ball. Looking at him in the scrums he is like a bean pole hanging on. Could turn out to be a very good second rower.
Higgers would be a better number 6, but he must be told and coached to play a tighter game.
Wallabies are missing a top number 8. They should poach one from NZ.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:40pm
Justin2 said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
Paul, agree Higgers is better at 6. There are a couple of rough diamonds at the Brumbies who have potential to be quite destructive 8s, Fotu and Vaea but both need fitness I believe. They may stand up next year.
Dennis hasnt the grunt to be in the row I believe. He has really disappointed me so far at Test level, especially his defence. He missed several easy shots on SBW last week, which gave more ammo to the fan boys that SBW is the greatest player since JC himself.
August 31st 2012 @ 2:01pm
sittingbison said | August 31st 2012 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Agree Higgers has to go to 6. He was ok at 8 for the Reds witha different game plan, but been hopeless at 8 with wobblies. Pick a genuine 8, which would be Mowen. I really dont think he would let us down
September 1st 2012 @ 1:42pm
Coxinator said | September 1st 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Mowen’s too small for 8 internationally. Lopeti Timani looks the next best option but best introduced off the bench at this stage.
If the play speeds up, Higgers at 8 would be as devastating as Read if not making longer runs. Watch Crusaders v Reds matches and you’ll see.
The key is quick clearance at the breakdown and getting the attack on the front foot.
August 31st 2012 @ 1:49pm
Oo-er said | August 31st 2012 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
I think from that squad I would go with this. I would like to drop Robinson to give him a kick in the date, and Dennis hasnt earned his own retention, but with no fit props or backrowers we are stuck. The backs give us a few options, and to me the inclusion of Tapuia is the best change available that we could make. Barnes and Harris are much of a muchness, but Harris can possibly carry with a bit more authority, and he plays in the Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Tapuai lineup for the Reds, so I’d give him a run.
Benn Robinson (NSW Waratahs)
Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
Nathan Sharpe (Western Force)
Sitaleki Timani (NSW Waratahs)
Scott Higginbotham (Queensland Reds)
Michael Hooper (Brumbies)
Radike Samo (Queensland Reds)
Will Genia (Queensland Reds)
Quade Cooper (Queensland Reds)
Digby Ioane (Queensland Reds)
Mike Harris (Queensland Reds)
Ben Tapuai (Queensland Reds)
Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW Waratahs)
Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels)
Tatafu Polota Nau (NSW Waratahs).
James Slipper (Queensland Reds)
Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
Liam Gill (Queensland Reds)
Dave Dennis (NSW Waratahs)
Nick Phipps (Melbourne Rebels)
Dominic Shipperley (Queensland Reds)