A miserable win for Wallabies over Pumas
Columnist By David Lord, 16 Sep 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Argentina, Berrick Barnes, Pumas, Rugby Union, wallabies
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The Wallabies were almost caught out by Los Pumas on Saturday night. (AAP Image/Dave Hunt)
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With the exception of tireless flanker Michael Hooper and man-mountain lock Kane Douglas on debut, the Wallabies had no joy in their come from behind 23-19 win over the Pumas at Skilled Stadium on the Gold Coast last night.
Played in perfect conditions, it was a wretched game which will have turned many rugby supporters off spending their hard-earned dollars in the future.
At least Channel 9 gave replay viewers many rest periods with an avalanche of commercials. Boring ads were more exciting than boring rugby.
Having said that, the Pumas were far more adventurous and constructive than the Wallabies, and didn’t deserve to be on the wrong side of the scoreboard.
Their pack outshone and overpowered the men in gold, while their backs were often prepared to run wide, with expansive running rugby and accurate passing.
They led 6-3 at the break, and 19-6 at the 57-minute mark, having scored 13 points in just seven minutes with two tries, and a penalty.
It was then the two worst Wallaby culprits – fly-half Quade Cooper and half Nick Phipps – threw their first pin-point and perfectly-timed passes to create tries for inside-centre Pat McCabe, and winger Digby Ioane and suddenly, against the run of play, the Wallabies led 20-19.
Replacement winger Kurtley Beale added the icing to the cake in the 78th minute with a long-range penalty – so reminiscent of his Bloemfontein match-winner in 2010, which ended a 47-year Wallaby drought on the high veldt.
The Wallaby check sheet:
Front row – Benn Robinson and Tatafu Polota-Nau went MIA, but Ben Alexander made it over the advantage line with four strong carries.
Locks – Captain Nathan Sharpe was penalised, dropped regulation possession and had his weight position all wrong when he was turned over in the in-goal area to bomb a first-half try. Kane Douglas is here to stay, he got through a ton of tough work, and never flinched.
Flankers – Michael Hooper is a world class open-sider, he was my man-of-the-match. Dave Dennis has a lot to learn to dominate the Test scene as he does Super Rugby.
No 8 – Radike Samo made many bursts with the ball and defended soundly, but dropping the ball over the try-line in the first half was inexcusable.
Had Sharpe and Samo scored, and Berrick Barnes’ first two penalty attempts not slammed into the right hand upright, the Wallabies would have led 23-6 at the break, instead of being 6-3 down.
A whole new ball game.
Scrum-half – Phipps’ passing was in the main pedestrian, and three box kicks went out on the full under pressure. His one moment of glory, setting up Ioane to score.
In his post-match interview with Sharpe, Fox expert Rod Kafer said Phipps had a fantastic game. I’m still trying to work out which game the former Wallaby utility back was watching.
Fly-half – Quade Copper was on some other planet, he certainly wasn’t at Skilled Stadium. His passing was rank amateur until be set up McCabe’s try, four times he failed to find touch under pressure and he was so slow with another he was charged down, resulting in Tomas Leonardi’s try.
Centres – Pat McCabe is no world-beater, but he’s tough and honest, and the best bloke to wear the 12 jersey. As is Adam Ashley-Cooper at outside centre. Like McCabe, he runs straight and hard, and both tackle soundly. Last night both passed the ball, which has been the major source of criticism.
Wingers – Ioane and Dom Shipperley are both here to stay, but would welcome more ball, and the quicker the better.
The jury is out on Berrick Barnes as fullback. He didn’t do anything wrong last night, but clearly Beale is the better 15.
The way Cooper played last night, Barnes is the better 10.
These are the problems Wallaby coach Robbie Deans needs to solve before Saturday week and the Boks at Loftus.
In the meantime, he can feel mighty relieved his Wallabies somehow managed to dodge a bazooka shell last night.
It was far bigger than a bullet.
- Explore:
- Argentina, Berrick Barnes, Pumas, Rugby Union, wallabies
September 16th 2012 @ 6:31am
Tony said | September 16th 2012 @ 6:31am | Report comment
Yep. A ‘win’ by 4 points. Not a good sign for the upcoming away game in Argentina. Lost interest and turned off at 52 mins – oz test rugby’s just become predictably very very boring. Yawn.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:03am
p.Tah said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:03am | Report comment
You think it was predicable that the Wallabies would come back from 19-6?
It was actually an enthralling game. Not top shelf rugby by any means.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:35am
Tony said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
Yep. Completely predictable. The laid back, passionless Wobblies caught on the back foot yet again in the first 60 only to switch on and claw back the game to win by a margin. Full credit to the argies.
September 16th 2012 @ 12:31pm
TahDan said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
But none to the wallabies who had half a team out injured…
September 16th 2012 @ 12:32pm
bob said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
I thought it was a great game. I saw it at skilled park and had a great time watching it, good work boys!!!!
September 16th 2012 @ 12:49pm
ibika said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
agreed there seems to be some conspiarcy to blah blah on and on about how boring rugby is..
September 17th 2012 @ 4:35pm
Warriormonx said | September 17th 2012 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Well boys, I watched the Wallabies game and kept an eye on the Rabbitohs / Raiders game.
Which one do you think was more entertaining? And I am no RL fan…
The AB’s / Boks game showed what good rugby looks like. The Wallabies game did quite the opposite.
September 17th 2012 @ 4:44pm
Mike said | September 17th 2012 @ 4:44pm | Report comment
I’ll remind the wallabies to wear sackcloth and ashes for you monx. The rest of us will get back to you when we care…!
September 18th 2012 @ 8:49am
Warriormonx said | September 18th 2012 @ 8:49am | Report comment
The Wallabies apologists are out in force now, eh Mike? Let me guess, if I’d said ‘black’ you would have said ‘white’?
The simple observation is that as the second ranked nation in the world, expectations are that they are relatively consistent and perform to a high standard. And if you honestly think that the last brace of games against the Puma’s, AB’s, SAF, Wales and Scotland have seen the Wallabies cover themselves in glory?
They are not the best side with the greatest players – simple fact. They do not pick the best sides nor do they settle on a firm 15 and allow it to develop. They are lacking confidence, are making poor judgement calls (particularly around the base of the ruck and in the backline) and failing to execute at critical times. The coach is not demonstrating that he can adapt a game plan to meet changing conditions. At times he does not seem to show enough respect for some sides (Ireland, Scotland, Samoa), but too much to others (AB’s), playing into the hands of both sets of opponents.
We should be able to enjoy watching a team attempt expansive and entertaining running rugby – not every test, cause that is the joy of the game they play in heaven – no two games are ever alike – but enough for diehard fans like be to be proud of the fact that they are a side that opponents respect. Nor do I ever expect us to win every time out. But we should trouble quality opponents with the quality and unpredictability of our attack, the power of our forward play; not just solid defence.
And to paraphrase Sun-Tzu, ‘the best defence is often a good offense’. The Reds learned that in 2011 (and the later half of 2012), as did the rest of the Super Rugby competition that year. How positive was that to watch? And what a spectacle it made!
September 18th 2012 @ 8:56am
bink said | September 18th 2012 @ 8:56am | Report comment
monx you are a simple lad who is a touch hysterical.
You are blaming the coach for the losses to Samoa and Scotland, when it was clearly going to happen when the ARU scheduled the match so Deans was forced to field B teams, and in scotlands case only had 1 training session together?
Do us all a favour and become a league supporter and stop carrying on like a martyr.
September 18th 2012 @ 9:15am
Warriormonx said | September 18th 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Good lord; wasn’t looking for a Troll, but in Binks I have found one. Yet another apologist leaping on board the trendy wave of uneducated commentary!
Yes, I am blaming the coach for those losses; ultimately, he is the one accountable. He is paid in the position of coach; is that not clear to you? Scheduling be damned – ‘forced to play a B team’? Really? Was he forced not to use the bench? Forced not to play Scotland inside with grubbing kicks to force errors in appalling conditions? Forced Barnes to try for a field goal with 25 minutes to play, advertising our desperation and lack of a plan to a confident opposition playing in conditions that suited them?
Was he forced to do nothing when the Irish ambushed us in 2011 and he failed to use the bench until the 75th minute? Was he forced to not select Dom Shipperley even though he was the form winger of the Aussie conference?
Ok, so passionate I may be – but I have every right to make comment – as do you Binks.
So keep on message and drop the Trolling value judgements.
September 18th 2012 @ 12:56pm
Mike said | September 18th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
“Let me guess, if I’d said ‘black’ you would have said ‘white’?”
Why would you think that – Because I had the temerity to actually disagree with you on a particular point?
“The simple observation is that as the second ranked nation in the world, expectations are that they are relatively consistent and perform to a high standard.”
That is your expectation. I think mine are more realistic, but suit yourself.
“And if you honestly think that the last brace of games against the Puma’s, AB’s, SAF, Wales and Scotland have seen the Wallabies cover themselves in glory?”
Who said they did?
“They are not the best side with the greatest players – simple fact.”
Who said they were?
“Good lord; wasn’t looking for a Troll, but in Binks I have found one.”
I think that is going a bit far. Binks and you obviously disagree, heatedly, but I haven’t seen anything from either of you that I would call “trolling”
September 18th 2012 @ 3:33pm
bink said | September 18th 2012 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
Monx
Trolling:) my daughter uses that word:) you can bang on about rubbish.
The wallabies can cover themselves quite well. We are ranked second in the world, have won 13 of our last 18 games. We won third spot in the world cup and and the tri nations last year. The world has changed. There is not a big divide between the rest of the world and the “big three”. But cover themselves in glory? where did you get that from? There is always room for improvement in any team.
You are being hysterical about Australian rugby. We have an entire second wallabies squad out injured. We have no stability in the line up essentially due to injuries. But we are winning a lot of close games, which I like.
We need another level of rugby between super rugby and club level and I believe this would halt the unprecedented level of injuries we are suffering. But to be honest I don’t think its in to bad a position.
Get a grip mate. Maybe rugby has changed? or maybe your a doom and gloom sorta fella?
September 18th 2012 @ 4:12pm
Warriormonx said | September 18th 2012 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
Think you guys are missing the point. This is not about me trashing Aussie rugby, or about the IRB rankings. Rugby is up against against stiff competition for audiences and relying on the tragic’s / ex private school types alone to continue to support the game at the national level is not going to grow the sport, or even maintain its relevance. The excellent series ‘Rugby in the 70’s’ illustrated this problem very well. Rugby is entertaining – thus needs to be entertaining. If you shell out $200 to take your two kids to see a game at ANZ stadium, you are really expecting that you will all enjoy it. Otherwise you probably won’t repeat the experience.
We have not invested the largess of the 2003 RWC well; you are correct Binks in saying that we need an additional competition between club and Super Rugby – this was tried a few years back (went to a couple of games at Ballymore – were brilliant) and unfortunately failed. I think that a new approach is required. Greater investment in country rugby, more scholarships for prospective talent, perhaps an expanded US ‘Colleges’ style competition might be other ideas.
As you are aware these are only paid for by sponsorship, which in turn is driven by audience numbers, on TV and at the games. All of which is not aided by a poorly performing Wallabies side.
I dont see myself so much as hysterical, but frustrated, and I know that I am not alone. We could be doing a lot better with the cattle / dollars we have and we could be working harder at the elite level to make rugby a real alternative for a wider audience.
To say that we are ‘Not in a bad position’ I think is denying the degree of negativity out there that is associated with brand Wallaby.
And PS. What is with ‘The Qantas Wallabies?’. Would we ever see the ‘Steinlager All Blacks’? Come on…
September 18th 2012 @ 4:13pm
Mike said | September 18th 2012 @ 4:13pm | Report comment
Fair enough. Good points.
September 18th 2012 @ 6:31pm
bink said | September 18th 2012 @ 6:31pm | Report comment
Australian rugby averages 19,348 people per game. rugby league averages 17,152, AFL averages 32,206 (according to wikepedia football crowds). This year rugby crowds are up seven percent (according to a roar article). Just a quick look on green and gold states that juniors playing rugby has hit record highs in WA, QLD and SA. I could not quickly find NSW so my apologies. These are facts
We are getting a bad run from channel 9 with coverage. Rugby could have done more after the 2003 world cup to build the game. These are facts
Rugby could do with more growth. This is a fact (every sport could)
Rugby has a public relations problem with its own fans being its worst and harshest critics. This sadly is a fact too. The figures don’t match many fans negativity. I believe many rugby journalists have a vested interest in finding negatives and we read them and some people by into the negativity. Rugby is growing and in good shape. Its in better shape than previous years.
More people are playing rugby than on
September 16th 2012 @ 6:31am
sheek said | September 16th 2012 @ 6:31am | Report comment
Good morning David,
While the Wallabies have bumbled along these past 5 weeks, both the AFL & NRL have powered on with quality matches, including the finals series.
There must only be several thousand rusted-on rugby fans around the country (plenty of them Roar contributors) who still think the Wallabies are a class act.
Where are the forwards with mongrel in them? Where are the backs with the ability to beat a man one on one? Maybe one or two examples of each, & that’s about it.
Then there’s the terrible fall-off in basic skills. Why & how has all this been allowed to happen? Those arguing the strength of the team because of our no.2 ranking are also deluded. Interantional rugby, apart from the ABs who are not at their best anyway, & despite all the glamour & availablility of modern media, is in an overall rut.
I mean in terms of providing class matches, & players of wonderful individuality & flair. There’s little variety. It’s almost as if the demands of media, with 24/7 content, is all that matters. Quality is almost not required.
The Pumas can & will only get better. At the rate they are improving, & the manner in which the Wallabies are marking time, it won’t be long before the Pumas surpass the Wallabies.
There, that should agitate the natives this morning…..!!!
September 16th 2012 @ 7:13am
sledgeandhammer said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:13am | Report comment
For FFS give a rest..
September 16th 2012 @ 7:41am
Sage said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Agreed. I’m real real sick of all the negativity. We won against a passionate and worthy oponent.and showed strength and courage to come back. We have a horrific injury list, players moving around, public who are riding us heels & hands but we won. Cut them some fu##en slack.
September 16th 2012 @ 8:02am
p.Tah said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:02am | Report comment
Agree.
I think some posters have adopted the following song as their anthem.yes it’s all Garbage
‘I’m only happy when it rains
I’m only happy when it’s complicated
And though I know you can’t appreciate it
I’m only happy when it rains
You know I love it when the news is bad
Why it feels so good to feel so sad
I’m only happy when it rains
Pour your misery down
Pour your misery down on me
Pour your misery down
Pour your misery down on me
I’m only happy when it rains
I feel good when things are going wrong
I only listen to the sad, sad songs
I’m only happy when it rains
I only smile in the dark
My only comfort is the night gone black
I didn’t accidentally tell you that
I’m only happy when it rains
You’ll get the message by the time I’m through
When I complain about me and you
I’m only happy when it rains
Pour your misery down…pour your misery down
Pour your misery down on me…pour your misery down
Pour your misery down…pour
You can keep me company
As long as you don’t care
I’m only happy when it rains
You want to hear about my new obsession
I’m riding high upon a deep depression
I’m only happy when it rains…pour some misery down on me
I’m only happy when it rains….pour some misery down on me’
September 16th 2012 @ 9:13am
cm said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
LOL, pTah!
September 16th 2012 @ 12:33pm
bob said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
brilliant!!!
September 16th 2012 @ 1:44pm
gekko said | September 16th 2012 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
FANTASTIC!!!!!!!
September 16th 2012 @ 3:04pm
stillmissit said | September 16th 2012 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
One of my favourite groups and a great song. Well picked Ptah very apt it is how many of us feel.
September 17th 2012 @ 4:38pm
bink said | September 17th 2012 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
if that is how many of you feel, that is terrible. Maybe you should find a new sport?
September 16th 2012 @ 7:34am
Rickety Knees said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Hey Sheekie,
The Emporer fiddles whilst Rome burns!
We had a poor Super Rugby tournament and it is showing up in the Wallabies big time. Our meagre player production line is not delivering to Super Rugby and Super Rugby is not delivering to the Wallabies. We can’t even do the basics well under pressure. We need JC to resurrect and create a miracle if we are going to win another game in this RC – who in their right mind would want coach the Wallabies right now.
JON’s top down rugby development strategy is not working!
September 16th 2012 @ 8:34am
Sailosi said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Seriously what do people expect. The ignorance and arrogance of Australian rugby supporters is astounding. Where do people get this idea that the Wallabies were going to ease their way past this Argentinian side? This isn’t the 1980′s any more when international rugby was a joke. We can celebrate in the winning of the 84 grand slam and look back glowingly on a wonderful achievement whereby the Wallabies triumphed in the north when in reality they beat up 3 very ordinary rugby sides.
September 16th 2012 @ 9:17am
sheek said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Sledge/sage/ptah, et al,
That’s because some of you guys don’t get it – in order to move forward Australian rugby has to firstly acknowledge it has a problem. Which some of you are incapable of.
It requires a state of mind that goes beyond simply changing the coach.
Anyway, as for all these put-down arguments about the glass being half-full or half-empty, it can always do with more wine……….
September 16th 2012 @ 9:26am
Sailosi said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Sheek, i think people do acknowledge Australian rugby has problems, but every sport has problems. It’s whether they need to brought up in every forum. I went through the super rugby squads for each Australian franchise for 2012, 2008, 2004, 2000 and 1996 and i believe that ARU has made great strides in their development of talent. The squad depth from those past years can only be described as embarrasingly bad, in fact if i coud turn back time time to 2000 thenjudging by squad depth and talent it is not hard to see why Aussie rugby has had a downturn over the next decade. There was a total lost genration of players born between 1980 and 1987. I feel that the ARU have gone along way towards addressing this.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:36am
brooke48 said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
sheek,its rare esp at home that agentine are easybeats;
but i did laugh at coopers woeful performance;absolute joke kicking ,passing, the lot .
surely the fox crew should now climb out of his ——– and be objective.
having said that i agree with kafer that phipps cleared quickly and as a rookie did ok apart from obvious mistakes.
didnt expect a genia performance ;even genia needs to wake up imo.
didnt expect digby to win man of match;why cos got given try for first time this year.overrated .regardless though the team showed character coming back from deficit and little lucky hernandez missed his shots at goal.
hooper has been my man of match, what a find!
looking at alternative coaches id still prefer deans to continue his contract.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:53am
p.Tah said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Sheek, I do get it, but talk on forums isn’t going to change anything.
It would be nice if we could look for the positives in the match rather than always trying to find points to continue the catastrophising. We are ambassadors for Rugby as much as the players and administrators are.
September 16th 2012 @ 12:37pm
krill said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
I agree, these forums are usually seriously negative. Rugby is suppose to be fun
September 17th 2012 @ 4:49pm
Warriormonx said | September 17th 2012 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Should also be fun to watch. Which it is not and has not been for some time.
I get that the negative commentry is all a bit droll, however the fact of the matter is that Aussie rugby has been in the doldrums for some time. We (the passionate rugby supporters) just want to see rugby that we can be proud of!
September 16th 2012 @ 12:56pm
Cattledog said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
So you were sent the wine email as well, Sheek
September 16th 2012 @ 1:08pm
Cattledog said | September 16th 2012 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Seriously though, I saw the Wallabies training on Thursday morning. Throws not straight, forward passes, dropped ball. I made the comment, if they play like that on Saturday, they are going to be in trouble. Many a true word spoken in jest! And not once pulled up by the coach.
Funny how they are trying to grow rugby here on the Coast. After the game, there were lots of young kids waiting for their ‘heroes’ to at least do a walk round and say ‘gidday’. Wasn’t to be. Actually, this week has probably put rugby on the Coast back a few years (and they certainly don’t need outside help to do that!).
Whilst I was glad the Wallabies finally got up, there was a part of me that said ‘bugger, still have Deans’. Now, I know you say, Sheek, there’s considerably more wrong with the Wallabies than the coach. However, I’m still not convinced that the coach isn’t the first change of a few required. I get the feeling he’s lost the confidence of the squad and is unable to motivate them. There’s certainly communication issues and as in any organisation, when that occurs, there needs to be a clean broom used.
I don’t like our chances abroad.
September 16th 2012 @ 2:15pm
onside said | September 16th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
half full,half empty……..or the wrong size
September 17th 2012 @ 11:20am
Sage said | September 17th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Bit of a broad assumption sheek. My comment was about the constant death riding of the WB’s here which is getting repetitive. I agree there is more than just a new coach needed but considering all the shit that’s been happening of late I think credit where credit is due on a hard fought win. They played like crap for a lot of the game but they didn’t give up. They showed some character at the end there and I think it should be noted even if others don’t
September 16th 2012 @ 10:09am
mick-e said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Sheek.
No game of AFL or diet rugby is a quality match. The games as sports are rubbish. Any rugby fan who watches that drivel is not a true fan. The rest of the world yawns more over those non sports they they will ever yawn over our currently “colourless” Wallabies.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:17am
Gurudoright said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Mick-e, you are a goose! Why can’t someone love rugby as well as other sports?
September 16th 2012 @ 11:37am
mick-e said | September 16th 2012 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Gurudorright.
You call those games other sports? Because diet rugby is a hybrid ( and superficial) game that falls short of the real product, despite pillaging it for everything it can and AFL is a bizarre abomination that only appeals to us Aussies and god knows why. You’d have to be braindead to sit through a kick fest like that and goose I may be but most of the wider world agrees with this goose.
.
September 16th 2012 @ 12:38pm
krill said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
No they don’t. In like other sports
September 16th 2012 @ 1:12pm
Cattledog said | September 16th 2012 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
‘…and goose I may be but most of the wider world agrees with this goose’. And this fact is from where? Ya goose
September 16th 2012 @ 9:22pm
mick-e said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:22pm | Report comment
Is the world rushing to play AFL or league? Whose the goose now. Those sports are nothing on the international stage and never will be.
September 16th 2012 @ 6:35am
Kuruki said | September 16th 2012 @ 6:35am | Report comment
If that was a terrible game what was the one before it? I enjoyed it compared to the 10 minutes of rugby played in the other match.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:29am
stillatragic said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:29am | Report comment
You mean that AFL match between Morne Steyn and the ABs?
September 16th 2012 @ 6:42am
Hoy said | September 16th 2012 @ 6:42am | Report comment
I disagree with a lot in this article.
Cooper had an off night. There is no disputing that. He made errors, but he also did better than you write. He set up a few raids, and possible raids that were fluffed by others. Sharpe once again butchered a certain try. Cooper threw him that pass, you conveniently forget. How Sharpe didn’t get low enough to driver over I will never know, but I have seen him bomb certain tries before.
AAC may have made incidental passes, but didn’t when he should have. Ioane would have been free a few times last night if AAC drew the last man and passed, but instead he stepped and took the bloke on to be tackled. Why can’t our 13s set up their outside man? It is basic play for any rugby player. Draw and pass. Yet at national level the 2 13s favoured can’t do it.
Same for McCabe. Passed yes, but only incidental passes. Not for any good or to improve the play at all. I love McCabe for his honest game, but he just doesn’t have the skill to pass to a player to creat anything. You can see he really has to think about his pass before doing it. Taps should have been given a go for this game to see if he can offer a point of difference. Although I doubt Taps would have had the speed to tackle old mate on the fly.
I said elsewhere there doesn’t seem to be any cohesion within the Wallabies. It is like a preseason hit out. But they have been together long enough to have their game plan ironed out by now that is for sure.
I also disagree that the Puma pack overpowered ours. I think it was a pretty even contest mostly. The Wallabies early should have realised they were not contesting at all, and should have picked and gone to suck them in, instead of going wide too early. Why didn’t someone work that out.
Also, you make no mention that the Pumas scored a try that shold have been brought back for foot on the line. Whilst it was good play to get there, it should not have been a try, just as Samo’s wasn’t. Imagine if they awarded that one? Outcry. Same thing really isn’t it? TA was there looking, and inexplicably missed it.
One thing I do agree on is the damn box kicking. All Wallaby halfbacks have tried it, none are any good at it, so lets shelf that plan for good now please?
Got out of jail, but I would imagine we won’t win any other games in this competition.
September 16th 2012 @ 8:13am
Nick said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Hoy – well said, there’s nothing I disagree with you here.
Cooper had a terrible night, his passing game is usually very good. At least he set up what should have been two tries.
Love McCabes straight direct running and tenacity but your right, passing doesn’t come naturally to him e.g there was a move in the first half where he got the ball and turned to face his try line so he could pass on his preferred side, right to left. This is so unacceptable and should be a core per-requisite of a 12. That’s why when JOC is fit he must be the man, he brings a far superior kicking, running and passing game…edging Tapuai.
AAC vision (lateral) and decision making in attack is poor, he bombed 1 clear opportunity. It’s not enough that he’s a great defender. Still I think he’s our only option at 13.
Phibbs passing was not pedestrian, it looked quicker than Genia’s actually. Phibbs issue is decision making and kicking game.
Barnes has to go, put Kurtley back there even if he isn’t in his best form.
September 16th 2012 @ 8:33am
soapit said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:33am | Report comment
taps at 12, oconnor at 13.
September 16th 2012 @ 3:49pm
bluerose said | September 16th 2012 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
soapit…………..i wouldnt mind having Taps @ (12) and Tomane @ (13) with JOC @ (10), Cooper and Barnes/AAC on the bench as an impact players and Ioane/Shipps/Beale (back3), we can replace Cooper’s flair/unpredictability/panic with JOC’s steadiness and collective calmness under pressure, hopefully some of our injured players will recover in time for the EOYT.
September 16th 2012 @ 4:10pm
bluerose said | September 16th 2012 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
, our pack can only improve, looks like we have found some long term locks with Timani/Douglass/Horwill, hopefully Neville and Pyle will take there chance if given any, our props have a long way to go, would be nice if Deans could try out Ryan against the upcoming Boks/Puma games, it will only benefit us in the long run, Salesi Manu/Scott Sio and the Reds Polynesian Prop should be monitored/nurtured properly, Hooper and Gill looks like real future superstars, we need a dominant #8, unfortunately Higgins isnt a #8 (a far better impact player though), Palu has lost alot since his run up with injuries, Vaea needs to challenge Mowen for the #8 spot in order to be considered for test selection, younger Timani (qualified???????) is a future prospect too, too bad Leroy Houston didnt live up to the hype, Luke Jones needs to add a bit of weight/muscle in order to compete for the #6 spot, he has the mobiltiy and endurance but still needs some raw muscle. Pocock looks more and more better to switch to #2, he’s a great fetcher but a limited OP, he doesnt have the running game/support game and general game compared to the great McCaw and the new wonderkid Hooper, our main worry is our limited midfield options.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:39am
mick-e said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Nick.
You talk a bit of sense until you take a cheapshot at Barnes at the end. Cooper has to go not Barnes who courageously fielded the high ball and did everything asked of him. He’s a much better international no 10 than Cooper who is exposed under pressure by decent teams who have worked him out. He’ll be a disaster in SA and Argentina where I think well experience an old fashioned hiding.
Beale is in the Cooper basket at the moment. Did nothing last night. James O’Connor is no magic bullet either. Hes a small guy and defensively quite weak and Nonu and the Argies will target him to say nothing of the Bok forwards in SA if he’s brought in closer.
All you guys ( including David) who thought one guy ie Cooper could work some kind of miracle have been shown up. But most of you havent the guts to admit you got it oh so WRONG.
September 16th 2012 @ 2:59pm
Nick said | September 16th 2012 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Mick-e – How can you say O’Connor is weak defensively. It’s absolute rubbish, give me some evidence he’s previously been weak at test level????? You can’t can you? He’s never failed defensively in test matches, in fact he’s more offensive in defence than Barnes. I appreciate Barnes is reliable in many areas of his game. The issue is he has no x factor in attack and you need this to break The best defensive lines. Cut Cooper some slack he’s coming back from a major knee op and would no doubt be finding his confidence.
September 16th 2012 @ 9:27pm
mick-e said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
Didnt you see McCabe run straight through him in the Brumbies-Rebels match? And in many test matches you see O’Connor arriving over the line after being beaten by an opposition back. I love the guys attack skills but stand by my statement that he is weak defensively and so are Beale and Cooper-the generation Y boys or the 3 amigos all suffer from the same disease.
September 16th 2012 @ 11:51pm
post said | September 16th 2012 @ 11:51pm | Report comment
So,basically you just have him lumped with cooper and beale and say he’s a weak defender because they are.
And that McCabe try…apparently being run over once makes you a poor defender. Check the stats or watch more footage, JOC is normally very strong in defense.
September 17th 2012 @ 12:03am
jutsie said | September 17th 2012 @ 12:03am | Report comment
I find it laughable that you crucify joc, beale and Cooper at every opportunity for even the slightest mistake but overlook the number of poor games Barnes has put in this year for both the wallabies and tahs.
September 17th 2012 @ 8:28am
Mike said | September 17th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Mick-e, of course you can pick an isolated incident where JOC failed in defence – you can do that with every single rugby player on the planet. JOC is as strong in defence as any other potential contender for fly-half in Australia.
Incidentally Barnes, whom you seem to champion to the exclusion of all others, also has a number of embarrassing moments in defence in his closet. Not that I am knocking the guy – I think he has done Australia proud in the past and will continue to do so. But your criticism of JOC doesn’t cut it.
September 17th 2012 @ 1:03pm
Nick said | September 17th 2012 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
I couldn’t have said it any better ….
Mike said | September 17th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Mick-e, of course you can pick an isolated incident where JOC failed in defence – you can do that with every single rugby player on the planet. JOC is as strong in defence as any other potential contender for fly-half in Australia.
Incidentally Barnes, whom you seem to champion to the exclusion of all others, also has a number of embarrassing moments in defence in his closet. Not that I am knocking the guy – I think he has done Australia proud in the past and will continue to do so. But your criticism of JOC doesn’t cut it.
Mick v Mick-e = 1-0
September 17th 2012 @ 6:42pm
mick-e said | September 17th 2012 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
Nick and Mike.
If you cannot recall Deans saying O’Connor was not ready to defend the inside channel at 12 over the last couple of years then you have wax in your ears or memory rocks in your brains. Probably the later.
And Nick try misses on Muiliana and numerous misses at super level. I stand by my statement that Barnes has far fewer misses than O’Connor defensively and a couple of try hards with limited rugby knowledge wont change that.
September 17th 2012 @ 6:55pm
Mike said | September 17th 2012 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
Hmmm, its pretty obvious that you can’t remember it!
“try hards with little rugby knowledge” – yes, yes, go back to your x-box and shoot bad guys
September 17th 2012 @ 4:03pm
mick-e said | September 17th 2012 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
Nick-
O’Connor is not lumped with Beale and Cooper for the hell of it. I said they all suffered from the same disease not that he has their disease because he is an amigo. You guys need to read posts properly before you have a crack.
And the failure to stop McCabe is not an isolated lapse. O’Connor has missed vital tackles in test matches (falling off opposition wingers like Beale with Dagg) and there is no way his defence is as strong as Barnes.
But I would still have him in the team for his attacking skills and hopefully as he bulks up his defence will be more staunch. Deans himself has been saying for several years that he is not ready to defend an inside channel against the likes of Nonu and Sonny Bill.
September 17th 2012 @ 4:59pm
Mike said | September 17th 2012 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
“O’Connor has missed vital tackles in test matches”
As has every single test rugby player in the world – so what?
“there is no way his defence is as strong as Barnes”
O’Connor’s defence is rarely criticised by anyone with a smidgin of nous. Whereas Berrick has had some real issues in that area. If you are going to defend Berrick there are plenty of bases on which to do it – but coming up with some bizarre argument that his defence is clearly better than O’Connor’s when that is one of his most identified weak points is not the way to do it.
“Deans himself has been saying for several years that he is not ready to defend an inside channel against the likes of Nonu and Sonny Bill”
Oh really – for years? When did Deans say that? Let’s start with just one occasion, then move on from there.
September 17th 2012 @ 5:46pm
Nick said | September 17th 2012 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
Mick-e,
Either you…
1. Are related to Barnes
2. Had an altercation with O’Connor or..
3. You haven’t watched every Wallabies game for the past 5 years
I suspect it’s no 3 as if you ask someone with intellect and a close observer of the Wallabies they will agree JOC is a v.good defender. I noticed you couldn’t give me any SPECIFIC examples at TEST level of him missing tackles. He has a combative defensive technique that make him a powerful centre despite his size.
I appreciate Berrick’s defence, general kicking (although it’s been off recently), commitment under the high ball and his attitude and way he values the Wallaby jersey BUT I don’t think he’s threatening enough in attack for us to beat the All Blacks, that’s the bottom line.
September 17th 2012 @ 10:42pm
bink said | September 17th 2012 @ 10:42pm | Report comment
Barnes is well known for his defence. He is a solid defender (he learned tackling Shane Webke). JOC has made it known he wants the 12 jersey. Deans has said many times that he does not believe him ready to defend that channel but he looks the goods now as a 10, especially now cooper is on the way out.
Funny thing x factor players are being talked about. Bret Mckay interviewed deans and they discussed x factor players and i just stumbled across it. if you have not seen it, it is interesting
September 17th 2012 @ 11:52pm
PeterK said | September 17th 2012 @ 11:52pm | Report comment
Lets put some FACTS into these tackling myths.
In this super season
Cooper made 22 tackles missed 5, a success rate of 81%
Barnes made 106 missed 27 , a success rate of 80%
JoC made 64 missed 18, a success rate of 78%
Beale made 56 missed 20, a success rate of 74%
Wow REALLY shows how Barnes is such a better tackler, NOT – Yet another myth
September 18th 2012 @ 12:35pm
Mike said | September 18th 2012 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Bink, good post, but on one point:
“Deans has said many times that he does not believe him ready to defend that [No 12] channel”
I am still scratching my head as to where Deans has said this at all! Obviously I can’t remember every single public pronouncement or comment that Deans has made, but I can’t remember him ever commenting on JOC’s defence, let alone WRT the No 12 channel. Perhaps someone can help out with this?
I do remember the following comment by Deans about O’Connor, but this was in late 2011 when Deans obviously wanted to use him at No 10, and there’s nothing in there about defence:
“His stated preference is 12 but you find over time that players let go of their individual preference and ideally start to think of what is in the best interests of the group and team,” Deans said.
“He is of great value where ever he is, so it does not matter in the long run but he is capable of mastering both (inside centre and five-eighth).”
Nary a hint that Deans had any issue with JOC’s defence at 12.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:46am
brooke48 said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
nick;cooper has done nothing for a long time;his kick being charged down with plenty of time was unforgiveable;7pts.
a club ten could have played b etter last nite.
time to leave the building quadie
September 18th 2012 @ 12:28am
bink said | September 18th 2012 @ 12:28am | Report comment
PeterK, I am not taking sides, but your stats may be a bit flawed. If you look at the defensive systems around the players, they are different. If the man inside you or outside you is letting you down defensively you will miss tackles. The waratahs didnt have the best season.
September 18th 2012 @ 12:37am
PeterK said | September 18th 2012 @ 12:37am | Report comment
JoC and Beale who played for a team that went a lot worse than Tahs had similar stats to Barnes.
So that adds little to any argument that Barnes is a better tackler.
He USED to be but ever since all his migraines his game in aspects except goalkicking has gone downhill.
September 18th 2012 @ 8:49am
bink said | September 18th 2012 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Beale and JOC where also out for good chunks of the season, I was just pointing out that the super 15 stats are a touch flawed. Do us all a favour though, please don’t let the secret that Barnes can’t tackle get out or teams will target him like they do Quade!!!
September 16th 2012 @ 8:51am
Mare said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
Quade Cooper has had an off season, oH, that is right he has been off now for a couple of years. Get rid of him. I really don’t know why they keep him as be really hasn’t perform for a very long time. It almost looked like it was on the take from the other side it was that bad.
Where is Nick Cummings?
Where is the depth in the backs, they are letting the side down.
September 16th 2012 @ 1:18pm
Cattledog said | September 16th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Cummings was at the breakfast Thursday morning, training later that morning but after that, not sure
Besides, who would you replace, Digby or Dom?
September 16th 2012 @ 1:38pm
Scott Adams said | September 16th 2012 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Cummings was scoring for Southern Districts in the Shute Shield final at Concorde.
September 16th 2012 @ 6:48am
Demers said | September 16th 2012 @ 6:48am | Report comment
Greg Growden also gave Phipps a pass mark. He was awful. Once again lousy management as Sheehan rode the pine all night. Cooper is still, repeat, still playing beach rugby. Barnes is no hot-handed 5/8 but he’s a better choice at 10 than Quade. We would have lost had Sharpe not been on the field. He was my man of the match for the Ws’. He didn’t bomb a try like Samo did, he was very well held up in the rollover. And congrats to Douglas. A first rate debut. The W’s will lose in SA and in the Argentine. We’re just a so-so team these days. Great spirit but that’s not going to be enough on tour. Twice the Puma backs strolled through. We used to have a great defence.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:39am
Bear said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:39am | Report comment
I though the Wallabies went better than previously because of Phipps. Genia stands at the base of the ruck and has a team conference. At least Phipps gets the ball out quickly.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:48am
Jutsie said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Barnes isnt the answer at 10 but looked pretty decent at 15 (surprisingly). I think for now coops has to stay at 10 and hopefully he doesnt have another brain fart but for the future it has to be CL at 10.
Phipp’s passing was average at times and that kick I will put down to youthful exuberance/inexperience but as bear says below it was good to see some urgency in the backline sparked by a no. 9 giving quick service. Willy G take note!
September 16th 2012 @ 2:08pm
gekko said | September 16th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Demers … and the world will end on 21 Dec 2012.
Enjoy the moment and think of something that will prevent those to future losses in Loftus and Rosario. We haven’t lost those games.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:04am
nickoldschool said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:04am | Report comment
I think you summarized the night pretty well David. Phipps was just ok (what a silly kick direct into touch!), Sharpe and Samo should have scored while Cooper was erratic too.
I dont get how Kane Douglas didnt get man of the match; he was outstanding, gained metres everytime he carried the ball. He showed what a young, fully fit lock bring to a team. No offense but Sharpe is just passed his prime and costing points. Which makes me regret that in a post rwc year, Deans didnt have the balls to launch a brand new pair of locks in the June tests. Douglas, Timani and others like Neville would have a few caps by now and not sure we would have been worse. Poor coaching imo.
The Argies were outstanding. I feel that their passing game his the slickest of all RC teams, it looks smooth and easy. they never panick, do their job and play as a team. They dont have the individual brilliance of the ABs but just look good and slick. Best thing that has happened in SH rugby in a long time (their inclusion to the rc ).
September 16th 2012 @ 9:40am
Blue Blood said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Agreed. Douglas was my man of the match too! What a great début.
I don’t agree with with the author singing Hooper’s praises. I think he was solid in small patches and completely useless for much of the game. Only in the last 15 did he finally find his hands and make one pilfer. Clap, clap well done.
Cooper should be out if the team like Beale. Both have poor form and both have attitudes that reek and drag down their peers.
Phipps was poor even by his standards. Sheehan should have got 30mins.
Besides stuffing the try Samo was the best backrower. Did the job with far fewer errors than Hooper and got involved unlike Dennis who as usual went missing.
A win gets recorded in history as a win. But it wasn’t pretty and I was almost disappointed for the Pumas.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:36am
Glenn Condell said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Agree about the Argies inclusion, very welcome indeed to have a South American flavour. Their passion, pride and physicality are a boon to this comp. They will soon get the sort of results that will turn heads in their home country, and over time some of the twinkle toed youngsters currently trying to emulate Maradona might in time be stepping and passing and tackling. And for players and coaches the prospect of adding Argentina to the usual travel schedule must be enticing.
I am in two minds about the Wallabies. One one hand they are a clear 2nd in the world, seeing off difficult opponents bar the ABs all year. They have great resolve in a crisis, and can go the 80, scrambling and covering despite the many mistakes they make. But on the other hand there are too many of these crises, they keep making those mistakes, again and again, And again.
If you had a visual for each team, a graph showing each team’s potential and how much they had fulfilled it, you would probably see the Argies at the top in this comp. Their potential with this team would not in most judges minds be as great as their opponents, not yet. But they have come closest to fulfilling what potential they have, to playing as well as they can than the others, playing at lets say 90%, or very nearly at their best.
The Blacks have gone well but even their most rusted on supporters will have some concerns about their form, especially as they are not facing other teams firing on all cylinders. Maybe 75%? And the Boks too have the potential to play at a higher standard than they have, perhaps even wresting the wooden spoon of unfulfilled potential from us.
But there’s no question we are not playing anywhere near as well as we can. Yes there is ticker, guts, resilience, even a dash of mongrel and with Hooper at last some forward leg drive in contact (an honourable mention to the much maligned Ben Alexander in this regard, very good last night) But we suffer from schoolboy howlers far too regularly for them to be shrugged off. Thing is, we are not in the same position as the Argies in this, in that they have to develop attacking edge in strategy and execution. We have those skills, they have been seen in the not too distant past. They exist, but it seems as if some kind of collective lack of confidence has settled over the decision making spine of the side. I’m not sure whether the errors have dented the confidence or if the low morale is affecting the handling and the kicking.. maybe its both in a negative feedback loop. But the end result is that they are uncertain and tentative and can’t seem to ‘seize the day’.
Cooper is the most obvious element of this, last night his kicks were uncertain and underpowered, he went missing at times where he could have injected himself to effect, as well as the more obvious and expensive errors. There are times last night where he distributed wide and followed half-heartedly, 10 or 15 metres behind play; the same situations where with a red jersey on he would be right up in amongst it, owning those situations. Last year still weighs on him big time. Deans and co should be working on strategies to get he and Beale ‘up’ mentally and to me it is either enthusiasm or anger that might do it. Both are in a listless mindset, crippled by a lack of real determination, I’m not sure where such motivation can come from but we need to have them both pacing the ground to get on with it, rather than looking as if they just woke up from a bad dream and need mum to tuck them in.
When we lost to the ABS the second time there was some talk about the Aussies seeming lack of angst at the end. If you are motivated and determined and play your heart out, it should be difficult to just pop up to smile and joke and shake hands with the people who just beat you and shattered your hopes. Check out the Argies at the end last night. They did their duty but some of them could hardly bring themselves to shake mitts with the Aussies, some knelt on the turf holding it back before they could get up and trudge off. That is the attitude you expect to see from a team that did it’s absolute utmost and pulled out all stops but came up short.
Short version – it is mental, they cannot seem to gee themselves up as a team and until they can they will underachieve.
September 16th 2012 @ 12:11pm
nickoldschool said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
agree with both of you BB and GC. Funny how a team like the Pumas can ‘win over’ supporters with their attitude, spirit etc. I feel that they were humble and gracious in defeat too, captain’s talk at the end was great and you could feel he was genuinely disappointed.
Re the wallabies, agree, its more mental now. Cooper’s very bad pass early in the game isnt skills but in his head. they need a psy.
September 16th 2012 @ 1:22pm
El Gamba said | September 16th 2012 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
Was sitting just in front of their supporter bay. Apart from booing our kicks, which I disagree with but these days from suncorp to eden park appears to be de rigour, they were brilliant!
September 16th 2012 @ 1:43pm
nickoldschool said | September 16th 2012 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
smart move el gamba; Argies are often cute too
September 16th 2012 @ 7:08am
Peter said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:08am | Report comment
Agree with your analysis.
Can’t wait for James O’Connor’s return, we need to bin Cooper ASAP…
September 16th 2012 @ 8:29am
Nick said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Knee jerk reaction on Cooper, don’t judge on 1 game. If your going to be like that then drop Barnes, other than his goal kicking what threat has he added for the wallabies.
At least Cooper is a worry for defences, play on the ad line and USUALLY has a superior passing game.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:50am
brooke48 said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:50am | Report comment
nick ,are you quades brother?quade doesnt worry any defences, they hope he plays.
barnes is kicking goals and tackles .off to psychiatrist now.
September 17th 2012 @ 12:18am
Post said | September 17th 2012 @ 12:18am | Report comment
How can you say Quade is a poor attacker? Have you never seen a Reds game?
September 17th 2012 @ 6:54am
Rugby Tragic said | September 17th 2012 @ 6:54am | Report comment
Super 15 games are quite different to test matches… less time, less space. Rare to see blow outs in scores in tests nowadays. I have yet to see Cooper “consistently” trouble opposition.
Biggest issue is that he is prone to give away as many points as he conjures up at the moment. I would have thought that he has had enough mtach play now (started back nearly 6 months ago with the Reds) in his recovery from his injury but maybe not??
I repeat an earlier post I made. IMO, Deans did the right thing by not selecting Cooper for the 1st test against the AB’s this year. He did the wrong thing by selecting him for the 2nd. His form does not justfiy selection but maybe it is a case of ‘last man standing’
Recover soon Leafiilano!
September 16th 2012 @ 9:20am
Nick said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Pete, what about the two tries (or close enough) Cooper set-up. Unless he keeps making several unforced errors like last night then he has to stay.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:22am
Thomas said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:22am | Report comment
What a miserable, hand-wringing excuse for an article. How about giving some credit to the Argies who don’t play like their ranking (8th) suggested. They held out the All Blacks for large parts of the game last week and drew with the Boks. Personally, I thought it was a great game and the Wallabies faced a very determined opposition who defended like maniacs. I think the fortitude the Wallabies showed to mow down the Pumas was fantastic.
There may be a lot of things currently wrong with Australian Rugby (the inept NSWRU and a lack of a competition below the S15 for starters) but I think the worst thing about Australian Rugby right now are the plethora of pessimistic ‘fans’ like yourself and others who practically salivate at the thought of jotting down some negative thoughts on the game. Glass half empty people. Chin up, bloke. We won.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:39am
Tony said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:39am | Report comment
Yeah, we won alright. By 4 points to a team that’s 8th on the ladder.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:56am
Thomas said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:56am | Report comment
They are only 8th because they play bugger all tests. IMHO they are better than most of the NH teams, if not all.
September 16th 2012 @ 8:04am
Tony said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Exactly. Re-read my comments. Not a criticism against the Pumas at all but a go at the wobblies.
September 16th 2012 @ 8:23am
Nick said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Any chance you watched the Pumas play in the RWC and the last two test matches against the Boks and AB’s Ton? Stop treating them with little respect, they are a very good team, ignore the IRB rankings which tell you nothing (case in point the Wallabies at no 2). I’d go as far to say they are they’ve proven to be the hardest defensive line to break out of all the RC teams.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:42am
Dingle said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:42am | Report comment
Could not gree more, how ridiculously pessimistic are these fans? They ask for running rugby, they get running rugby, and they whinge about running rugby.
Personally I thought it was one of the most positive games the Wallabies have played in recent times.
September 16th 2012 @ 12:12pm
Kuruki said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
It was the best game of the RC so far imo.
September 16th 2012 @ 12:43pm
kirk said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
agreed, the pumas are a great team. They troubled both the boks and the all blacks. A bit of congratulations to both teams is in order
September 16th 2012 @ 11:07pm
Wal The Hooker said | September 16th 2012 @ 11:07pm | Report comment
Have to agree there, I enjoyed it! The pace of the game was pretty hectic boy those Argies are going to be a force for sure. Both teams had their moments and kept me entertained
September 16th 2012 @ 12:52pm
Shop said | September 16th 2012 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
Best comment so far Thomas. So many commentators (including this Senor Lord) think that a win by less than 20 points against the Pumas is a failure. “Pido un poco respeto, por favor”!!!!
September 16th 2012 @ 7:24am
sledgeandhammer said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
This article, and some of the typical self indulgent dribble written by those clearly completely out of touch with modern rugby, shows total disregard and disrespect to the Argentinian side who were the prime reason the Wallabies didn’t play the type of rugby people were hoping for. This was a tough test match, let’s not forget both SA and NZ have struggled against the Pumas. And to those comparing the league finals to rugby test match football there are a few points to remember: there is no battle for possession in RL, players in RL don’t get punished for making bad decisions (i.e. isolated, turned over); then you have scrums, lineouts and other aspects of play which involve organisation and pressure (as do kick offs). So the objective fact is it is harder to play rugby union, there is more pressure, and more decision making, and more specific skill sets, and this is what makes it so interesting. If you remember this and take your RL hat off for 5 minutes some of you dopes might actually enjoy a few matches.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:52am
David Lord said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
I have a free pass to Gibb and Beeman for Thomas and sledgeandhammer for accusing me of not giving the Pumas enough praise.
“The Pumas were far more adventurous and constructive than the Wallabies and didn’t deserve to be on the wrong side of the scoreboard. Their pack outshone and overpowered the men in gold, while their backs were often prepared to run wide with expansive running rugby and accurate passing”.
What more do you want Thomas and sledgeandhammer?
September 16th 2012 @ 9:32am
sheek said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Honestly sledge,
You are the one dribbling this morning.
Poor old rugby players, their game is so much harder to play.
And poor old Wallabies – nobody will allow them to play their game. How cruel.
Do you really believe this drivel? I guess you do.
September 16th 2012 @ 10:48am
sledgeandhammer said | September 16th 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
I do mate, absolutely. I would say any sport with a battle for possession has added pressure because poor decisions are punished. The point I am making is that you can’t just pick the ball up at dummy half and have a run. Bad decisions are punished, it is a fact. If you give the ball to a player in a worse position he will lose the ball, get turned over. If you get isolated the same applies. Pressure makes execution of basic skills much harder, it’s the same in all sports, including tennis and cricket. Same with soccer, and AFL. It is the risk factor that creates excitement, and I personally don’t get that in rugby league.
And by the way I never said ‘poor’ Wallabies. Rugby is a matter of inches, it is the competition in each and every facet that makes it interesting. I enjoyed the pressure the pumas applied, and I enjoyed the Wallabies response. No pity at all, it was great theatre.
September 16th 2012 @ 11:56am
sheek said | September 16th 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Sledge,
You think rugby union is the only sport where there is a constant battle for possession? This doesn’t happen in Australian football, or soccer, or basketball for instance?
And how is it rugby league isn’t a constant battle for possession? Okay, there’s a contrived contest for possession every 5 tackles or so. But you don’t think players are trying to dispossess with every tackle?
And do you think rugby union is the same battle for possession it was 20 or 30 years ago? Do halfbacks really put the ball straight in the middle of the scrum anymore? Has the removal of rucking really made the contest as desperate as it used to be?
The sanitising of rugby (lifting in lineouts, 4 step sequence of scrums, removal of rucking) has had the unfortunate consequence of removing some of the contest. It’s not as contestable as it used to be.
How often do rakes win tight-heads these days? Rarely. How often are mauls & rucks pushed back off the ball? Rarely.
The fact you prefer rugby union as your game of first choice is fine (it is also mine). But it’s outrageous to suggest rugby is harder because it’s more technical. All football codes are tough in their different ways.
Have you ever played rugby league? Try running up & back 10 metres, & repeat over 100 times a match, whether in attack or defence. It’s not tidily-winks, you know.
And what about having 2-3 consecutive line drop-outs, where you have to defend your line for maybe 15-20 consecutive tackles. You reckon this isn’t tough, or isn’t pressure.
And what about Australian football? Some players run up to a half marathon (20 kms) a match. Most players usually cover 10 kms a game. Do you think this is a walk in the park?
And what about the stat of how much the Wallaby forwards ran in their two matches against the ABs recently? 16 forwards (2 games) running a total of 80 metres, or was it 40m (I forget). Anyway, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt & say 80m. That’s 5 m per forward over two games. And that’s not including replacements.
So which is the tougher game now???
When you unrealistically exaggerate the differences between your favourite footy code & other sports, then you run the risk of holding yourself up to ridicule.
September 16th 2012 @ 2:16pm
ozusa said | September 16th 2012 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
Sleek why are you even here if you dislike rugby so much ?
September 16th 2012 @ 6:12pm
sledgeandhammer said | September 16th 2012 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
I was first and foremost a league player, not a rugby player. There you go. If you had read my comment I said AFL and soccer DO have a battle for possession. And I DID NOT say that league isn’t tough or AFL isn’t a fit man’s sport. So what did I say? The point I was making is that it is much harder to execute even basic skills when under pressure. The best rugby league example would be running the ball on the 5th tackle – suddenly things go wrong, passes don’t stick and mistakes happen.
Your stats on the Wallaby forwards are pure BS. The hardest position I ever played in any code was number 7 – hitting rucks and mauls hurts, pushing in scrums is tough when you are knackered and your back is killing, and that’s even before you think about counting the running metres or tackle count.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:28am
robbo said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:28am | Report comment
I disagree with just about everything in this. Apart for the ten minutes following Cooper’s charged down kick the Wallabies were the dominant team. The scrum held its own and sometimes got on top, the contest at the ruck was about all square. The backs had their usual problems of lack of composure and consistency – much of which can be put down to the number of changes they have had over the last few week – but – I think we saw the potential that is there. The centres do need to be told to pass the bloody ball. These two are not as bad as Horne and hopefully not as dumb either. At least there were no dumb grubbers last night. Players getting stripped when they are on their feet is just not acceptable – and the next one who let’s it happens needs to hooked immediately.
As all other team have found – the Pumus know how to defend, they are no easy beats and are not in this competition to be cannon fodder for the others (thank God). We beat them. Celebrate
IMO Phipps had a good game, not a great game but a good game. The plan was obviously to play very fast and very flat from the ruck. Phipps had the game to execute that. A few passes wet awry, almost inevitable given the defence but he did not hatch any eggs and missed very few rucks. Box kicking is a weakness but that break from the ruck that set up Digby’s try was exactly typical of his game and was always on once the defence slowed.
The only thing I did agree with Mr Lord on was that Kane Douglas has a terrific debut, but – Hooper had a poor game by his standards and had little impact. Ben Alexander once again MOTM. Held the scrum together, made metres with every carry (every other forward needs to watch his highlight reel to learn about body position) and if he had been on the end of pass that Sharpe wasted it would have been a try. (By the way what is the strategy of playing Robinson for twenty minutes and then hooking him? At that point the scrum was doing OK- so what was going on?).
Let’s hope that Kurtley’s superb penalty gives him the confidence boost he needs to get his game back.
As I said – there was MUCH to be hopeful for from this game. We won it, we are still number 2. Let’s get behind them not all over them.
September 16th 2012 @ 7:35am
Thomas said | September 16th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
I agree re: Hooper. He was largely invisible throughout the game. His strong runs from last week didn’t happen and it must be said that the Pumas contained him well.
September 16th 2012 @ 8:30am
Josh said | September 16th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
I had no issue with Phipps either. Snappy and always on the job. Some nice – unheralded – switches in direction. Happy to see a halfback not standing endlessly over the ball contemplating nature.
September 16th 2012 @ 9:04am
Nick said | September 16th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Here here Robbo on several of your points.
- Alexander’s body height is excellent and as a result got him over the ad line for each of his carries. Wish other fwds would take note.
- David Lord worries me, if you’re going to be in the privileged position to write for the roar then be accurate…Hooper was superb last week but not last night, no way deserving of the MOTM. The right person received it, Ioane (work rate high and won contact area on carries). It’s not all about stats but a MOTM rap sheet shouldn’t read 4 missed tackles, 2 handling errors, 3 tackles, 9 carries and 1 forced penalty.
- Kane Douglas impressed. Heading towards the abrasive and hard working locks like Romano, Whitelock (so skilful), Retallick (massive future) and Etzebeth (the best Bok find in many years, much higher work rate and aggression than Bekker)
Last comment, our only hope of winning the last two games away is if Timani and Moore are fit, Beale starts at 15 and JOC’s hammy improves 1 week earlier than anticipated and we start him at 12. McCabe to the bench or 13, AAC’s has defended surperbly but his vision and ability to create outside him is poor.