Is the Australian conference really the weakest?
By drdavebond, 20 Sep 2012 drdavebond is a Roar Rookie
Sharks player Jannie du Plessis (R) tackles Reds Will Genia during the Super Rugby qualifying final between the Queensland Reds and the Sharks (AFP / Patrick Hamilton)
Related coverage
Remarks made by Jon Plumtree, the coach of the Sharks, back in August that the Australian conference is the weakest in the Super Rugby competition certainly seem to be correct.
Only the Reds had made it through to the finals and the Waratahs, Force and Rebels were busy propping up the table. Add to that recent losses by the Wallabies in the Bledisloe Cup, and scrappy wins against the Springboks and Pumas, it certainly does seem like Australian Rugby is struggling.
But, like many things in life, just because it looks so, doesn’t mean it necessarily is. So to explore whether there is any credibility to this idea I turned to an idea in sports economics called competitive balance.
There are a number of ways in which competitive balance can be measured, but in essence this usually happens either within the season (i.e. the Chiefs and Stormers at the top and the Force and Lions on the bottom) or across seasons (i.e. the Crusaders and Bulls always tend to do well).
For balance in the former, you’d like to see not much difference in points between first and last on the ladder and for the later you’d like to see different teams at the top and bottom of the ladder each year, much like the reversals in fortunes of the Waratahs and Reds in recent times.
A big problem with applying these measures to Super Rugby is that they need stable competitions, with generally the same number of teams and everyone playing each other the same number of times.
Obviously this is not the case in Super Rugby, so alternatives must be found. One way to get around this is to strip out the national derby matches, and only look at matches against a foreign opposition.
For example, during the 20 matches Australian teams played against New Zealand opposition in the 2012 regular season, the Australian teams had a win-loss ratio of 35%. This dropped to 25% for the matches against the South Africans.
This isn’t to say that the South African and New Zealand conferences are equal. Even though the Australians were being beaten up by everyone, the South African teams were also being beaten up by the Kiwis, with a win-loss ratio of only 35% (exactly the same as the Australians).
However, if you extend this analysis back to 2006 and the start of the Super 14 competition, a slightly more nuanced story emerges.
The Kiwis are definitely the pick of the litter, winning 59% of their matches against any foreign opposition. The Australians and South Africans are a long way back, but actually very even, with Australian teams winning 45% of their matches and South African teams winning 46% of their matches against foreign opposition.
So yes, the Australian conference is weaker, at least at the moment. Historically though, the Australians aren’t that different to the South African teams.
The Kiwis though, with the exception of 2010, are very much in a different league when it comes to continued Super Rugby dominance.
Have you seen the new Wallabies jersey? Want one of your own? We're giving away a brand new 2013 Wallabies jersey to one lucky Roarer, click here to go in the running to win.
The Crowd Says (60) | Page 2 of Comments
Have Your Say
Do you have what it takes to become a sports writer? Write for the roar
Rugby Union articles
- SPIRO: Beale and Folau brilliant, Mogg subbed (278)
- Deans: Should he stay or should he go? (242)
- I was dead-set wrong about Folau (237)
- What gives with Israel Folau? (184)
- Deans promises ball in hand rugby for Wallabies against Lions (183)
- Quade shouldn’t be fly half against the Lions (180)
- My Lion tamers for 2013 (167)
- Berrick Barnes inspirational in Tahs win over Brumbies (17)
- Picking Quade and Izzy is a no brainer (2)
- Cheetahs vs Reds: Super Rugby live scores, blog (124)
- Leinster win European Challenge Cup (2)
- Ireland rugby flyhalf Ronan O’Gara retires
- Rebels hope win helps coach
- Barnes leads Waratahs to win over Brumbies (4)
- Picking Quade and Izzy is a no brainer (2)
- Cheetahs vs Reds: Super Rugby live scores, blog (124)
- Waratahs vs Brumbies: Super Rugby live scores, blog (514)
- Wallaby backline options (66)
- An exciting weekend in Australian rugby (0)
- Western Force vs Sharks: Super Rugby live scores, blog (114)
- Rebels vs Stormers – Super Rugby live scores, blog (359)
Recommend this story.
- Explore:
- Canterbury Crusaders, Queensland Reds, Rugby Union, Super Rugby



September 20th 2012 @ 3:13pm
steve.h said | September 20th 2012 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
Well South African teams have been pretty awful for most of Super Rugby’s existence and only collectively got up to speed with world rugby from about 2006, shaking off the set back of a rightful period of isolation. I think you will find once the issue of provincialism and developmental structures, that help phase players from schoolboy rugby to professionalism, are set in place the national team will improve.
So what if the Australian teams have been poor, they are a developing entity and this is something positive. Its only New Zealand that has no potential for growth, economically and demographically, in the alliance and will find in the coming years that they will have less bargaining pull than the other two nations.
September 20th 2012 @ 3:43pm
Johnno said | September 20th 2012 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
I agree steve h, NZ has almost reached saturation point. I don’t think NZ population will increase massively over the next 20 years, i think they could have 1 more super team in taranaki or sty auckland but that’s it. If anything NZ rugby over the next 10 years will slowly be poached off by rugby league and soccer. So NZ will have to talant share more without he other footy codes. And also basketball to is on the rise in NZ. So it is a myth that NZ has forever endless pots of talent, well they don’t. NZ is suffering form losing so much talant overseas eg caller hayman, steve donald, nick evens, luke mcalister, Kaino, thorn, SBW it does harm NZ rugby. They are not unstoppable and can’t keep bleeding so much talant. And now losing Alby Mathewson to the force does hurt NZ, as they have to find another player to replace him. And they simply do not have unlimited depth.
September 21st 2012 @ 9:43am
allblackfan said | September 21st 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Losing Alby won’t hurt NZ, Johnno.
There’s already a couple of halfbacks running around the TM Cup, fresh out of school, who look the goods — Hohaia West, for one (from the u20s ABs), and Nathan George (?) for Manawatu.
September 20th 2012 @ 3:39pm
Jiggles said | September 20th 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
The conference system is a red herring. teams will get found out and so far the right team has won the comp both times. The Reds made it in to the finals but they were quickly dispatched by the Sharks in the first round. I think that was a fair result considered how both teams had played this year. The Chiefs were the best team all year and deserved to win.
Winning this comp is a simple equation. Go about your business, don’t loose any home games, and try and win as many cross conference games as you can. The Reds did that in 2011 and the Chiefs did that in 2012.
September 25th 2012 @ 2:15pm
Ryan said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
The thing is teams shouldn’t have to “Get found out”
Teams should be there on merit not some poor quota system to make fans feel good about themselves.
September 20th 2012 @ 7:07pm
IvanN said | September 20th 2012 @ 7:07pm | Report comment
Stormers,Chiefs,Crusaders,Bulls,Sharks,Reds,Brumbies,Canes,Highlanders,Cheetahs,Tahs,Blues,Rebels,Force,Lions
If a team finishes 6th in the round robin, but is given a home play off match ? how were they not benefited ?
That alone says to me, the Aussie conference is weakest.
Add the positions (lowest is higher ranked country)
Aus = 6,7,11,13,14 = 51
SA = 1,4,5,10,15 = 35
NZ = 2,3,8,9,12 = 34
The Reds were then beaten at home by the Sharks in their playoff – the Sharks then had to face the travel back to SA, where they beat the stormers and then all the way back to Hamilton.
September 20th 2012 @ 7:15pm
Mike said | September 20th 2012 @ 7:15pm | Report comment
I don’t understand why this is such an issue – shouldn’t we expect the Australian conference to be weakest? S15 is our substitute for a national competition, one of our teams is barely a year old, and another is pretty new also.
It would be a surprise if we weren’t the weakest, but that will change over time.
September 20th 2012 @ 7:28pm
chuck said | September 20th 2012 @ 7:28pm | Report comment
Johnno
Mcalister left because he had a attitude problem by not turning up for training.Heep’s too replace him.
Thorn coming to the end of his career which is understandable .time too move on to other goals the locks we have now are doing the job against the best .
Hayman left for financial reasons has been replaced with good props who are doing the job.
Steven Donald & Nick Evans both good players Duck has put his name in All Black history lots of replacement too take there places .
Kaino on a sabbatical contract will be back for the next world cup it took him a while too get recognition
SBW has taken his career in a direction that suits him the door is still open if he wants to return
New Zealand R.U. has not gone down the track like south africa by selecting overseas kiwis who have left the fold too be selected
for the national side .
NURSERY for rugby union in New Zealand is collage rugby and the N.Z.R.U. have instructors or coaches who go around the schools if the want help from training to diet techian on hand Joe Rococo went from collage strait into the Auckland blues under this
system.
N.Z.R.U. has not hit the panick button ,rugby union belongs too the people collage too club, sevens too, I.T.M ,supper 15 then international. rugby will always be the number one game in N.Z .the goverment will always back them too the hilt they will always come up with the next crop too replace past champions who wear that black Johnno their a lot mana in that black jersey .
.
September 20th 2012 @ 9:27pm
Johnno said | September 20th 2012 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
chuck ia gee there sure is a lot of mana and talant, and the ITM cup has impressed me a lot. But now without he NRL big $1 billion dollar deal plus some mopper emissions out of NZ, and the millions now being pumped into the warriors, NZ only has 4.5 million people, it doesn’t have unlimited depth.
-And losing men like steve donald do hurt the program. And as nations catch up they will those losses like a steve donald or a carl hayman more. Think about someone like Mcalister or steve donald if there not in the ab squad could be offering invaluable experience to the ITM cup rookies. Gone all that experience gone. And SBW is hard to replace as well.
For me it is the middle of the road AB’S like steve donald that are hard to replace as they will eb the ones playing ITM cup chuck and there experience is hurt in my opinion.
September 20th 2012 @ 9:49pm
The Grafter said | September 20th 2012 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
MacAllistar was the MOST overrarted player in NZ mate.
Its now been taken over by Victor Vtio but Im sure when Charlies
boy decides the money in the NH has run out again (like Dad),
he will be back to ‘grab’ his mantle.
September 20th 2012 @ 10:14pm
Johnno said | September 20th 2012 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
But at ITM cup level mcalister would of been handy for sure mate, his experience would of been useful.
September 25th 2012 @ 2:17pm
Ryan said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
Losing Steven Donald really hurt NZ by allowing the unveiling of players like Beauden Barrett, Ihaia West etc
September 20th 2012 @ 7:45pm
MAJB said | September 20th 2012 @ 7:45pm | Report comment
For coming from such a weak conference the Wallabies beat the Springboks well.
September 20th 2012 @ 9:50pm
The Grafter said | September 20th 2012 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
When have Australia beaten SA well???
I would suggest the last time is 92.
September 20th 2012 @ 10:10pm
Jiggles said | September 20th 2012 @ 10:10pm | Report comment
and my personal favourite
September 21st 2012 @ 10:31pm
Mike said | September 21st 2012 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
he he he, thanks mate!
September 22nd 2012 @ 12:15pm
stillmatic1 said | September 22nd 2012 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
worst 700 bucks i ever spent, jiggles. after 20 minutes the night wasnt worth the money!! got a 2 game package, but at least the abs won the next suncorp game. thankyou sir richie for the tackle on gerrard to save our bacon!!
September 20th 2012 @ 11:53pm
bennalong said | September 20th 2012 @ 11:53pm | Report comment
Who gives a shoot if we’re the weakest conference. ???
That will change next year
The Tahs will be back on top under Cheika with a dominant and fit set of forewards, and a ‘galloping greens’ inspired backline!
September 21st 2012 @ 1:09pm
Aussie said | September 21st 2012 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
Th Brumbies came second in the conference and got most thier points playing the poorer teams while losing to most of the good teams. The Australian conference was the weakest last year of that there is no doubt.
September 21st 2012 @ 5:43pm
biltongbek said | September 21st 2012 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
You guys shouldn’t worry too much about being percieved as the weakest conference.
Next year SA has the Kings who will provide enough controversy on its own.
They are currently headhunting anything that moves and are slowly becoming a team full of mercenaries, but inspite of their recruitment drive, I would expect the other SA team to gain some handy “handicap” points from them.
September 25th 2012 @ 2:18pm
Ryan said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
next year the Blues who were NZs poorest team miss playing both the Kings and the Rebels how is that fair?