Argentinian rugby puts pressure on football
By tonysalerno, 21 Sep 2012 tonysalerno is a Roar Guru
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Argentina's sky-blue strip (AAP Image/AFP/Marty Melville)
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The Pumas’ strong showing in the Rugby Championship has come at a time when Argentina’s reputation as one of football’s superpowers has been questioned.
Argentina’s rugby prospects are gleaming after they recorded a 16-all draw against the Springboks and pushed Australia to the limit last weekend.
The Wallabies trailed the Pumas by 19-6 with 25 minutes remaining but scored two late tries to escape Skilled Park with the four points.
Led by Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, the big and physical Pumas pack has proven they can compete against the three best rugby-playing nations in the world.
Argentina is the highest ranked South American team in eighth position, trailing European heavyweights England and France but above European stalwarts Scotland.
The Pumas have been fluctuating around rugby’s top 10 since 2007, where they reached their highest ranking of fourth place.
Argentina is one spot higher than they were this time last year and can spike back up the rankings if they perform well against Australia and South Africa at home.
But has the Pumas’ surge been at the expense of the Argentinian football team’s slide?
In Argentina rugby union takes a back seat to football.
The world game has enthralled South America with Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina dominating the international stage since the modern era.
Diego Maradona and now Lionel Messi are Argentinian legends who have become global icons amongst the football fraternity.
But in recent years the Argentinian football team has failed to deliver on the big stage, which has seen their status as a superpower plummet.
Argentina currently sits seventh in the FIFA rankings and continue to drop after topping the standings five years ago.
Friendlies and international warm up matches are hard to judge how a team is travelling in terms of form and results, however the World Cup and Copa de America are better indicators given the stakes are higher and teams need to win at all costs.
And Argentina has failed to get past the quarter-final stage of a World Cup since 1990.
Also, Argentina has not fared much better in the Copa America, having not won since 1993.
These statistics don’t tell the full story, but they show Argentina is no longer the force they used to be.
Rebuilding, friction, injuries; players and coaches can put whatever spin they like, truth is the Argentinian government funds millions of dollars into Argentinian soccer at the expense of a lot less for rugby union.
The sport dynamic is not going to shift but the recent good form of the Argentinian rugby side has magnified the disappointments of their soccer counterparts.
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September 21st 2012 @ 2:47am
Johnno said | September 21st 2012 @ 2:47am | Report comment
Really good article. To me this article wether or not it realises it is doing it, the article fires up code war ideas, in my mind.
Is global soccer market share under threat, is soccer market share under threat in south america i think so, and i will throw in basketball too which is booming in Brazil and south america and globally like rugby. All 3 sports basketball,rugby,and soccer , and maybe ice hockey are now the 4 major team sports in the world globally all in olympics to and have there own world cups too.
LIke in OZ, NZ, England, and now argentina football codes competing for market share in tv ratings, and player participation both in men and women.
What’s interesting about code wars and sports fans i wonder especially the football codes is , is there much cross over. Rugby league and rugby union have a cross over of fans, but not so much rugby league/union and soccer and i will add afl to that.
In my experiences fans have 1 specific footy code they like and watch the others intermetinely eg special events like world cups, olympics, grand finals etc.
What’s good about south american rugby is it is now getting into the poor parts in Argentina, columbia, chile, uruguay paraguay, not just the rich and middle class. The development pathways in argentina have been awesome, the ARU could take notice.
And they are now appearing on many tv commercials. I go on the pumas Facebook page and the passion is amazing i wish the aussies had this sort of passion. They want to be the no 1 rugby nation in the world that is the goal the captian says if they make it is well deserved.
There is some sort of south america championship being done now working class rugger did an article on it. But rugby is booming in argentina and south america and i wish Los pumas all the best. Reminds me of the socceroos at the 2006 world cup, they have captured peoples attention and imagination playing with passion and flair and are now everyones 2nd favourite team everyone loves the pumas. And a new tv commercial they did. And to think i was going for them in brisbane that is how frustrated i have become with the ARU’s attitude to rugby Deans,JON , and Nucifora. I cant wait for the AB’S wallabies match there in 3 weeks time going to be awesome. And looking forwad ot the America’s championship in November it is a A(2nd team) champions ship with argentina A, USA A, Canada A, and the 1st 15 Uruguay side going to be in canada that will be fun too.
ANd south america has been having it’s south america championship the last few weeks to so south america rugby is booming which is great, will it overtake soccer, maybe you never know it is booming in brazil too. It will deifnalty take market share more market share in the code war. Go south american rugby i say and go Los pumas.
September 21st 2012 @ 8:32am
Gav said | September 21st 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Generally not the case down in Melbourne. Most people will support anywhere from 2-4 codes.
Personally I support 3.
September 21st 2012 @ 10:27am
Bakkies said | September 21st 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
I think the problem with Argentine football is the coaching they have a darn good squad. Messi, Aguerro, Higuain, Tevez to name a few. Probably the best attacking force outside of Germany, Spain, etc.
September 21st 2012 @ 8:48pm
lorry said | September 21st 2012 @ 8:48pm | Report comment
gav,
if that is true about Melbourne, why is it an Aussie Rules blackout in all the media there?
Also, why do so many Melburnians not know the difference between union and league?
September 21st 2012 @ 3:17am
kingplaymaker said | September 21st 2012 @ 3:17am | Report comment
Argentina may advance over those European teams having played in TRC and with Graham Henry coaching.
September 21st 2012 @ 3:24am
Johnno said | September 21st 2012 @ 3:24am | Report comment
But KPM what are you saying about the 6 nations then mate. Is the RC superior to the 6 nations. I was watching some French top 14 on TV this morning, and the standard looked easily as good as super rugby plenty of stars and lost of pacific islander players in the teams.
September 21st 2012 @ 11:05am
Mantis said | September 21st 2012 @ 11:05am | Report comment
The RC is better then the 6 nations. No doubt.
September 21st 2012 @ 7:45am
Elloco said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:45am | Report comment
They will certainly improve providing they can get their top players into the competition year in year out. The ratings system works with one team taking points and one team losing points each match so their ranking may actually slip at least initially given that they will be playing a lot more games against what are generally the top 3 ranked teams.
But yes I look forward to seeing our Southern Hemisphere brothers take their rightful place at Rugbys top table!
September 21st 2012 @ 4:05am
jus de couchon said | September 21st 2012 @ 4:05am | Report comment
Rio 2016 might be a huge boost for South American rugby . Should also be a good p1ss up and Brazilian women to boot!
September 21st 2012 @ 6:54am
p.Tah said | September 21st 2012 @ 6:54am | Report comment
I think the Football World Cup in Brazil in 2014 may have more of an impact in S. America but glad the 7s will get a guernsey in 2016.
September 21st 2012 @ 8:39am
Gav said | September 21st 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Rugby is the fastest growing sport in Brazil.
They only recently opened up a high performance unit near Rio.
September 21st 2012 @ 6:18am
mania said | September 21st 2012 @ 6:18am | Report comment
rugby on the rise in argentina. of course. not everyone has the body type to play football unlike rugby
September 21st 2012 @ 6:18am
Darwin Stubbie said | September 21st 2012 @ 6:18am | Report comment
Good god this is pie in the sky …. All those ‘stats’ show is how hard it is to win the tournaments named …. You could make the same statement about damn near every footballing country on the international scene – other than Spain at present …. Football diminishing in Argentina at the expense of the Pumas – not going to happen – perhaps the public there can enjoy both games without the need to have a code war
September 21st 2012 @ 6:26am
mania said | September 21st 2012 @ 6:26am | Report comment
darwin – and u could add how long it took NZ to win its 2nd wc. 24 years yet rugby has never been in decline in nz.
September 21st 2012 @ 6:56am
p.Tah said | September 21st 2012 @ 6:56am | Report comment
Remember when the the NZ All Whites coach claimed that Soccer would over take Rugby in NZ based on the All Blacks performance in 2010?
September 21st 2012 @ 7:24am
Darwin Stubbie said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
I doubt Herbert is that stupid to make a claim such as that – it was more to say that football can command a more prominent place in the sporting landscape …. NZ does show from time to time that it has the capacity to support various codes …. Anyone at the cake tin for the W-cup qualifier can tell that the atmosphere that night was electric – probably only bettered by last year w-cup final … Football in NZ has a groundswell following and having followed the AWs around SA in 2010 I’d definitely be doing the same again if they qualify for Brazil …. does the mean equal a trend at what is being alluded to in this piece – no – merely means indicates I enjoy various football codes
September 21st 2012 @ 7:30am
Johnno said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:30am | Report comment
He did NT Darwin I heard it on the grape vine, Herby Herbert said it. And I like the band sherbet it rhymes “Howzat love that sherbets song” lol. But i remember after the win vs Bharain he said it in the heat of emotion of the all whites victory at wellington to qualify for world cup 2010. And NZ already now has more junior participation in football than in rugby NT Darwin stubbie.
September 21st 2012 @ 7:57am
NY said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:57am | Report comment
Why don’t you show some kind of source or quote then? My bet is that you have taken something out of context.
September 21st 2012 @ 6:30am
Emric said | September 21st 2012 @ 6:30am | Report comment
Lets be realistic guys.
Rugby might grow its market share and get a few casual supporters but we are a long way, if ever, from even beginning to threaten Soccer (football) in Argentina or anywhere else – Rugby has always had a strong following in Argentina but once their soccer boys win another championship or world cup it will change again.
However I hope the rugby boys are enjoying the additional attention for the moment
September 21st 2012 @ 6:41am
nickoldschool said | September 21st 2012 @ 6:41am | Report comment
I dont think rugby is going to overtake football anytime soon in Argentina. Like in other countries where football is the n1 sport (Eng, france, Italy…), rugby is certainly getting more and more popular but is still far behind football in terms of popularity. better be a healthy 2nd or 3rd sport than a sick n1 anyway imo.
Its the same stuff in countries like NZ or Oz where rugby and nrl are n1 sport but football is getting more and more popular too: will it become the n1 sport anytime soon? nope, but the number of kiwi and aussie kids playing football is growing by the day.
One of the great things about the inclusion of Pumas to the RC is the exposure the country is getting in our countries. Argentina has deep rugby roots (strong Basque influence) and only needed an opportunity to become more ‘out there’.
It makes you wonder what countries like Oz or NZ could have brought to their P.I neighbours; a couple of tests a year makes a huge difference.
September 21st 2012 @ 7:24am
Johnno said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
nickoldschool read this
http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2063575.html#exciting+schedule+tier+two+unions
September 21st 2012 @ 7:45am
nickoldschool said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:45am | Report comment
Tx for that Johnno. I saw that the P.I had a few tests in the NH in November which is great.
Even greater would have been a commitment from the ARU and NZRU to play at least a test a year v one of their P.I neighbour. Scotland went to the P.I last June and it was a success. We are only a few hours away, have a huge P.I community in NZ and Oz. Any NZ v Tonga or Oz v Samoa/Fiji etc would be a huge success. Away tests there would be fantastic not only for rugby but the cultural experience for guys with P.I background to go back there. I just dont get that we are still, in 2012, contemplating and salivating at the idea and that nothing (or not much) has been done.
P.I play more tests against NH opposition than v their 2 giant neighbours!!! thats the paradox. Look at what the inclusion of Argentina to the RC has brought to rugby in general.
September 21st 2012 @ 7:58am
Johnno said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:58am | Report comment
nickololdschool I agree, Aust and NZ could do way more and they are in the SH, the irony. And when you also think of the kolpak rule with pacific islanders in europe rugby comps. Over 200 pacific islanders play in europe. Far more than in OZ or NZ at the tope level. ARU and NZRU silly protectionism attitudes to foreign imports. The ARU and NZRU have a global rugby responsibility to help other countries , eruope do too the benefit too i might add , as high tv ratings from star P.I players.
Aust/NZ should be thanking europe rugby especially french rugby for getting argentine up to speed and the IRB, they didn’t do anything for them like allow lots of argentina imports in super rugby. protectionism all other codes are open in OZ eg soccer A-league, and NRL, and basketball , rugby union should do the same and abandon this outdated protectionism stuff. 5-10 super rugby improts per clubs is still only 25% max per squad. France next year will allow 40% imports , .
September 21st 2012 @ 10:06pm
all7days said | September 21st 2012 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
It does wonders for their national sides.
To Be honest. The NH don’t do it for the betterment of World rugby. They do it because they need good players. We don’t need good players.
September 22nd 2012 @ 9:33am
tonysalerno said | September 22nd 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
My last hurrah made sure i magnified the point that soccer will never be over taken by soccer in Argentina
“The sport dynamic is not going to shift but the recent good form of the Argentinian rugby side has magnified the disappointments of their soccer counterparts.”
September 21st 2012 @ 7:03am
tc said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:03am | Report comment
I’m not saying rugby will ever compete against football on a global scale but it has made huge inroads in countries like France and Ireland ,and if you go back before the 2003 World Cup and see the rugby crowds in England and compare them to now you can’t tell me it hasn’t made inroads. As the world becomes a smaller place there defiantly seems to be this positioning of half a dozen global sports that will dominate. No one on this site can deny that rugbys growth since it went pro or even since the first World Cup hasn’t been phenomenal and will continue especially with our new Olympic 7s weapon .
September 21st 2012 @ 7:19am
p.Tah said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:19am | Report comment
Exciting times tc
September 21st 2012 @ 7:24am
MV Dave said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
Whilst Rugby may have grown in some areas football has grown at a huge rate in regions such as North America, Asia, Middle East, Africa whilst in Europe 80% of all TV broadcast dollars are spent on football with F1 in 2nd place. Basketball is also a big improver.
September 21st 2012 @ 7:32am
Johnno said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
But rugby has exploded in all those areas too Norht america, and Asia, southern africa rugby is massive now. Madagasscar got 40,000 to a qualifier match vs morocco this year. Basketball, Rugby, soccer, ice hockey to me are the core team sports in the world . Someone said european scandos handball to me the other day but i couldn’t believe that. Water polo and volleyball and cricket and field hockey all trail hockey.
Rugby is much bigger than cricket and field hockey now in the world
September 21st 2012 @ 9:33am
Tigranes said | September 21st 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Johnno
bless the Malagasy, I spent a few weeks there a few years ago and they sure love their rugby.
But they are one of the poorest countries in the world and TV broadcast dollars are pretty small there.
September 21st 2012 @ 5:11pm
MV Dave said | September 21st 2012 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
Exploded?
Can you advise of the pro leagues that Rugby are running in Asia, North and South America.
Sorry to deflate your tyres Johnno but Basketball, Baseball and Cricket would be well ahead of Rugby in terms of participants, spectators and money in the sport worldwide.
September 21st 2012 @ 7:04am
MV Dave said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:04am | Report comment
The main sporting question for the people of Argentina at the moment is whether Messi can reproduce his club form for the national side in Brazil 2014…nothing else really matters.
September 21st 2012 @ 7:44am
Titus said | September 21st 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Rugby may be growing but I don’t think Football, particularly in Argentina, is feeling any pressure. It isn’t like Australia where you have three versions of Rugby along with Football.