Get the legends back in the game
Roar Rookie By CJ, 22 Sep 2012 CJ is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- David Campese, Mark Ella, Rugby Union, Stephen Larkham
Nick Farr-Jones and David Campese at 1991 RWC. AAP Images
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Who is arguably the best player to have pulled on the gold of the Wallabies in the last century? John Eales? Stephen Larkham? David Campese? Nick Farr-Jones? Tim Horan?
I would hope that many of you could agree with me that Mark Ella is probably the greatest player to have played for the Wallabies in the last century.
He was one of the greatest proponents of running rugby to ever pull on a jersey. Mark, along with Larkham, were two of the best playmakers this country has ever produced.
Even after his retirement Larkham is making a splash – look what happened when Jake White and Larkham came together at the Brumbies. They went from cellar dwellers to the edge of the finals in one season.
I think the emergence of Lealiifano is down to the mentoring he received from Larkam. I think Lealiifano will only continue to get better under the tutelage of “Bernie”.
With the current state of Australian rugby, I think it’s time to send an SOS to Mark Ella. Can you imagine if the Wallabies fly halves were being mentored by the best fly half Australia has ever produced?
Imagine Mark Ella being the Wallabies backs coach imagine the things Mark could do with players like Digby Ioane, Kurtley Beale and James O’Connor.
Perhaps he could even create some magic from Quade Cooper and Berrick Barnes. The Wallabies forwards have never been dominant in international rugby, so perhaps Ella could teach our fly halves how to deal with it.
If he was not interested in coaching the Wallabies, perhaps a grass roots program would tickle his fancy, the sort that Campese has attempted to create. Imagine the next generation of Australian running fly halves mentored and coached by Mark Ella.
I get chills even imagining it.
I think it is a crying shame that one of the greatest rugby minds of our century is no longer contributing to Australian rugby.
I understand if he is doing this by choice but surely if it was even remotely possible, mountains should be moved to allow such an inspirational and legendary player back into the fold.
Mark could help the Wallabies back to the top of the rugby world.
On a another note, it is a crime that the ARU is making it so difficult for Campese to pass on his experience and enthusiasm for the game onto the next generation. So difficult in fact that he has no choice but to go abroad and help other nations expand their rugby.
Campese and Ella were the legends I grew up hearing about, my father telling me stories of these guys making something from nothing and pulling wins from the jaws of defeat.
These are the guys that made me want to play rugby.
Not only would these two legends bring huge levels of experience and help to the players they coached they would also bring much needed publicity to a sport starved of exposure.
Mark Ella, Stephen Larkam and David Campese should be in a coaching capacity in Australia at some level as these ex-players have so much to offer to the next generation.
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- Explore:
- David Campese, Mark Ella, Rugby Union, Stephen Larkham
September 22nd 2012 @ 12:40am
Johnno said | September 22nd 2012 @ 12:40am | Report comment
Quade lol. He he just t joking there lol. SOme say Quade has the most talant him or JOC or beale but that is debatable. Andrew Walker had so much talant joe roof not he rugby club said Andrew walker was the most gifted rugby player he had played with. Zambia’s finest George gregan was one hell of a competitor . All this talk about overseas born wallabies in the squad eg pock, vickerman,inane. Thought i’d point out one of our finest. David knox who was a part of of no 8 micheal chieckas great randwick teams was one hell of a passer and playmaker. Cheika played over 300 games for Randwick during the 1990′s the golden generation of randwick rugby. Talant wise Brendon Nassar had a lot of talant but didn’t reach his potential . Greg marto martin off the rugby cub had a lot of talant but didn’t reach his potential either, and micheal brial, big garrick morgan and big tom bowman who chris handy used to get so excited when he scored a try vs the ab’s in 98 also didn’t reach his potential. brett robinson didn’t either he was good. Chris latham was an awesome player so much talant,, and stirling mortlock was a powerhouse took it too Umaga and O’driscoll in his prime.
Then of course campese, john eales who could of played cricket for australia was a top cricketer too, and larkham, gregan, ella brothers , russell fairfax another matraville high man, ray price, ken catchable, john hipwell, phil kearns, far jones, micheal lynagh, ben tune, roff, horan, little, and big willie O in his time was awesome, as was kefu, steve cutler, andy slack,micheal hawker, as was big dan vickerman in his prime, and George smith who was phenomenal vs the british lions in 2001. I don’t think i have ever seen a player dominate series like George smith did vs the lions in 2001 and that includes Mcaw at his best or micheal jones and lomu’s 95 world cup.
So many to choose from i don’t know where to start. Heck wally lewis aussy schoolboy,andrew johns if he crossed over to rugby union which he nearly did joining sailor,tiquri,matt rogers may of been greats , and same with lockeyar. Cliffy lyons who was the nearest toy of player to Mark ella would of been sensational rugby union player.
Rickey stuart could of been a great but he left too early. Matt Giteau everyone had high hopes on and around 2004 he was just about the best player in the game may of been our no 1 wallaby if he got on better with deans .
September 22nd 2012 @ 10:20pm
Mantis said | September 22nd 2012 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
you love a big comment dont you johnno
September 22nd 2012 @ 1:57am
Shungmao said | September 22nd 2012 @ 1:57am | Report comment
Agree our base skills need improving but I honestly think a lot of the players mentioned would struggle with the up to date defensive and attacking structures from the opposition. I would also be interested by a dominant vs a nn dominant pack
September 22nd 2012 @ 4:28am
bluerose said | September 22nd 2012 @ 4:28am | Report comment
Mark Ella was, is and will always be the greatest to ever wear the green and gold, his flat line attack was pure magical.
September 22nd 2012 @ 10:45pm
Rip Van Winkle said | September 22nd 2012 @ 10:45pm | Report comment
Mark Ella was nearly as big a thief of rugby league ideas as Rod Macqueen.
September 26th 2012 @ 7:34am
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | September 26th 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Unless it’s illegal, it’s not theft but rather Adopt and Adapt.
September 22nd 2012 @ 5:34am
AndyS said | September 22nd 2012 @ 5:34am | Report comment
I’d say Ella was probably the best amateur to play for the Wallabies. Maybe it would have translated into professionalism, maybe not – it could be argued endlessly as there are so many aspects that have to be aligned, including external considerations such as the massively increased training load and the need to be away from home/work etc. For mine it is Eales, having made the transition and excelling both sides.
September 22nd 2012 @ 6:45am
Frank O'Keeffe said | September 22nd 2012 @ 6:45am | Report comment
Ella’s loop plays etc wouldn’t have worked in the modern game. But vision, ball skills, awareness, reading the game, etc. Ella would have been fine in the modern game. Carter isn’t a stepper, but he’s a great distributor and engages the defensive line and directs play beautifully. I don’t even regard Carter that highly in terms of tactical kicking. He’s a good kicker in terms of finding touch when he needs to, and kicking goals etc.
Of course that Sydney Test in 2010 (or was it 2009) where NZ won with a Carter penalty, after Carter put a perfectly weighted kick that stayed in play, pressured the back three to make a mistake, and then make the NZ pack run over them, getting the penalty. That hurt!
Ella influenced modern attacks more than people realize. A five-eighth who stands as deep as Barry John can’t be successful in today’s game. Jonny Wilkinson was ineffective in attack from 2007 onwards because of the depth he ran at. Players have to engage attacks these days.
Ella was a great defender too – a forgotten aspect of his game. He wasn’t great like Rob Andrew, Jonny Wilkinson, or Dan Cart. But he was very good.
Actually Ella and Carter are probably the two best five-eighths I’ve ever seen. Hugo Porta maybe did more than both, but from what I saw of Porta (which isn’t much), I never liked how the onus to win the game was always entirely on him. If Porta played bad, the Argies lost.
I remember seeing Nass Botha play a horrible 2nd Test during the Cavaliers Tour. There were other ways to try and win the game, but Botha had a bad game on a windy day, and no either I win the game, or we don’t win!
September 22nd 2012 @ 9:48am
sheek said | September 22nd 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Frank,
I don’t agree Ella’s loop plays wouldn’t have worked in the modern era. It’s all about adapting, & Ella was a master at improvisation.
My point is, today’s defences, while better organised, aren’t challenged anywhere near enough by things outside the norm & the expected.
This is the result of homogeneity of players at the expense of individuality & flair. The craziness of Cooper an exception.
September 23rd 2012 @ 11:11am
Bakkies said | September 23rd 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Jonathan Sexton uses a basic loop at Leinster with BOD on the receiving end. It’s Sexton’s pet play. Well he did have David Knox as his backs coach for a while.
September 24th 2012 @ 3:31pm
El Gamba said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
And it’s not just the loop that worked so well for Ella, it was how hard he worked for a second and third touch. This principle is timeless.
September 22nd 2012 @ 9:22am
garth said | September 22nd 2012 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Agree, John Eales, the best all-round rugby player in the world. For the first century of rugby anyway. The man could even kick goals , broke more than a few kiwi hearts with that trick.
September 22nd 2012 @ 5:55am
klatu said | September 22nd 2012 @ 5:55am | Report comment
the best wallabies ever – WilliO
September 22nd 2012 @ 6:33am
Frank O'Keeffe said | September 22nd 2012 @ 6:33am | Report comment
I think it was Peter Jenkins who once ranked the 10 greatest Wallabies ever and listed the following names…
Trevor Allen
David Campese
Ken Cathpole
John Eales
Nick Farr-Jones
John Hipwell
Tim Horan
Michael Lynagh
Mark Loane
Col Windon
As far as I’m concerned, those 10 are as good as any list you could make of Australia’s best ever players.
Of those four I think the stand-outs are: Catchpole, Ella, Campese, Eales.
I never saw Catchpole, but Chris Laidlaw once said he was the best halfback he ever saw, and Laidlaw played against Gareth Edwards, and had Sid Going as his rival.
Ella… if he played longer he possibly could have been an easy number one choice. It wasn’t until 1984 (his last year) that he was a decent kicker. Although an underrated thing about Ella was he occasionally surprised teams with good kicks that looked ugly. Ella was the master of kicking ugly field goals. He kicked more than Paul McLean!
People forget Ella made mistakes like Campo did… Every test I ever saw Ella play in had a mistake. 9/10 things worked out. But I loved how he immediately engaged teams the instant he touched the ball. There’s no time for them to think or adjust. So many times he looked like he’d get smashed and then the ball would pass through like lightning. Had he played until 1988 or even the World Cup he might have been the best rugby player ever.
Campese is my choice for the best Australian rugby player ever. He’s got the longevity (played two years too long), the great memories, the success… People are forgetting how incredible he really was in attack! Earl Kirton once said New Zealand used to practice defensive formations designed specifically to stop Campese. The heights Campo hit in 1988 and 1991 were pretty awesome. His 1988 Tour to Britain might have been better than the 1991 World Cup. I’ve worn the DVDs skin-thin! He scored some of the best tries ever, too. Bryce Rope once said the whole plan for the 3rd Test in 1984 was to stop Ella getting the ball to Campese… they were successful. Bill McLaren said Campese was the greatest he ever saw. Tony Ward did too.
I sometimes feel bad for Campo because he was judged by standards higher than everyone. Like people talk about his tackling and how he wouldn’t make it in today’s game. His tackling wasn’t the highlight of his game, but he often made tackles. He was more like Joe Roff than Quade Cooper I never noticed his defence on the Grand Slam tour or the 1988 tour. I only noticed it once in the World Cup against Ireland. I can think of a few badly missed tackles he made, but people have just gone over the top with this.
Eales… made as many tackles as a backrow or fullback, was the premier line-out exponent of the 90s, destroyed Wales whenever he played against them… He’s retired and Australia hasn’t been the same since. He’d be my 2 after Campo #1.
September 22nd 2012 @ 9:33am
sheek said | September 22nd 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Frank,
Beautifully written. Re Ella & Campo, yes, they made mistakes. But for every mistake they made, they did say 10 things well.
You don’t taste success without first experiencing failure. Life isn’t about how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you keep bouncing back.
Today’ youth regrettably, is being moddy-coddled by fear of litigation, duty of care, & all that suffocating red tape, bureaucratic stuff.
Give kids back responsibility. Make them accountable for their own actions. That’s a start…..
September 22nd 2012 @ 10:12am
bigbaz said | September 22nd 2012 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Yea Frank, I mainly agree with you but most of these players had if not great packs at least good competitive tight 5s. Hipwell carried Aus rugby for years and as great a no 9 as he was he was also the prototype 9th forward. He’s in my top 3.
September 22nd 2012 @ 7:11am
Allanthus said | September 22nd 2012 @ 7:11am | Report comment
It’s nice to see a positive topic for a change, but how about this for a wee twist…
NZ rugby tragics, often when they get together for a drink, or when it’s compulsory lights out at 9pm and there’s nothing better to do, play a game where they name the worst ever All Black team. There’s always a little bit of room for discussion and argument but most teams usually end up looking similar, from Colin Farrell at fullback through to Perry Harris at prop.
But what’s interesting for this discussion, is that – despite hundreds of All Blacks over the years, it isn’t that easy to find 15 shockers, and also, there aren’t many modern era players who fit the bill (Steven Donald was an exception, a stand out at first five until he redeemed himself in last years RWC final)
The point being… it would be one hell of a job to nominate the worst ever Wallabies team, there’d be candidates in all directions. And… a fair chunk of them would be modern day players too. Which kind of plays to the wider discussion about lack of player depth, lack of a 2nd tier provincial competition, and whether or not the Wallabies coach is a hack or is doing a reasonable job with what he’s got available.
September 22nd 2012 @ 10:36am
bigbaz said | September 22nd 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
I hear what you are saying Allanthus but there have been some red hot political selections in Aus rugby over the years.I remember back in the mid 70s there was an army fullback selected for the Wallabies for 2 tests. Never heard of before or since.There are quite a few of those type of selections.
September 22nd 2012 @ 2:02pm
Uncle Argyle said | September 22nd 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
My mates and i have played that game. When we were younger it was usually at the rugby club with a rum and coke in hand and a durry in the other full of pish and wind blah blah… now is done over too many bottles of red wine and the Stan Pileki are a thing of the past…although when the girls go to bed a pouch of rollies some times appear magically…’Where did they come from’ ???
Anyhow this would be my least favoured Wallaby XV off the top of my noggin
1. Cam Blades
2. Mark Bell
3. Rob Lawton
4. Tony Abrahms
5. Don Price
6. Mick Mathers
7. Hugh Rose
8. Fili Finau
9. Dominic Vaughen
10. Paul Kahl
11. Alister Murdoch
12. Tim Wallace
13. Brad Girvan
14. Acura Niquila
15. Tim Kellaher.
I would like to add these blokes were all good players but far from threatening greatest Wallaby XV’s
September 22nd 2012 @ 2:41pm
sheek said | September 22nd 2012 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
Uncle,
I know these exercises are meant to be fun, but I don’t like ‘em, all the same. Anyone who is selected to represent their country ought to be respected. They are all good players, among the top 5% percent (or most probably even less) of their generation.
I reckon Don Price for example, got a raw deal. There really wasn’t much between him, Peter Lucas & Duncan Hall as No.8s. And Mick Mathers was a tough, grafting lock who captained NSW.
Tim Kelaher was probably more gifted than Marty Roebuck, but lacked confidence at the highest level.
I’m more concerned that some of today’s top-line players are more interested in their bank balances than putting in for the Wallabies.
September 22nd 2012 @ 2:43pm
Uncle Argyle said | September 22nd 2012 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Hi Sheek,
fair point, that’s why I did add my caveat underneath.
September 22nd 2012 @ 3:56pm
Johnno said | September 22nd 2012 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
add in matt pini and ryan constable to uncle . peter jorgenson got injured a lot os couldn’t play. A bit harsh on Fili finau reckon he was pretty damn good just injuries got in the way. paul cornish didn’t do much. Glen Panaho was rubbish too.
And good old Peter Kay who was a character.
September 22nd 2012 @ 4:03pm
Johnno said | September 22nd 2012 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
and mark hatrtill.
September 22nd 2012 @ 5:30pm
Johnno said | September 22nd 2012 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
Uncle with your worst wallabies list why don’t we thrown in David Nucifora lol . 2 tests off the bench lol
September 22nd 2012 @ 9:28am
sheek said | September 22nd 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Unfortunately CJ,
I’m not sure today’s generation can relate to, or care what Mark Ella has to offer them. The individuality & flair has been driven out of today’s generation as they are all expected to play the same.
I read it here on the Roar that Ella, Campo, etc, couldn’t do today what they did 20-30 years ago. Really?
Even the looney Quade Cooper can split defences wide open on the rare occasions he’s thinking straight. Or what about Benji Marshall in league?
Sure, today’s defences are better. but by the same token, they aren’t being challenged by anything different. Attack, from all nations, is mostly the samo-samo stuff of pick & drive, change the angles, that sort of thing.
Clever loops, cut-outs, switch-plays, chip & chases, grubber kicks, winger centre-kicks are seen all too rarely. Players are not encouraged to try different things for fear of making mistakes.
Guys like Ella & Campo made these their bread & butter modes of operation.
How can they be expected to perfect these intricate skills without practicing them in live match conditions?
September 22nd 2012 @ 12:03pm
Lannash said | September 22nd 2012 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Sheek – Right on the button. Really! A great player is a great player. If they played today they would adapt. Old Kiwis like me would still fear Campese, Horan Gregan, Giteau and a host of others.
I wouldn’t write of the Wallabies, however. While I share your opinion of Looney Quade, if J’OC, Beale, Pocock and Genia are all fit they are a dangerous combination.
I look forward to better times ahead!
September 22nd 2012 @ 1:29pm
Uncle Argyle said | September 22nd 2012 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Hi CJ,
its a really interesting read, thank you. However I must take um-bridge with your comment. “The Wallabies forwards have never been dominant in international rugby.” This simply is incorrect. I had the great pleasure of watching Mark Ella play. I’ve said it before if the famous Robert Redford movie “The Natural” was ever to be based upon a rugby player it would have been on Mark Ella. To thin it was all over at 25 as well!
However back to my point. Ella was a legend in his own right. Alas CJ arguably Ella’s crowning moment was the 1984 Grand Slam when he famously scored a try in every test. Lets have a look at the forward pack in front of him; Rodriguez, Lawton, McIntyre, Cutler, Williams, Poidevan, Tynmann, Codey. This pack wore down the English at Twickenham, bested the Irish at Lansdowne Road, famously pushed the Welsh scrum over for a push over try at the Arms Park and then man handled the then five nations champions Scotland at Murrayfield. Two years later essentially the core of that pack won a Bledsiloe series in New Zealand.
Again in 1991 & in 1999 you could argue quiet strongly Australia had a dominate pack when you see who they defeated and where. However CJ I will certainly agree with you that it has been some time and too long a time since Australia has had a dominant forward pack.
I do not agree that great players make great coaches. If we look at Australia’s coaches I would say Dwyer & McQueen are right up there. Both have won World Cups however neither played for the Wallabies. Alan Jones won a grand slam and a Bledisloe in NZ. Never pulled on a boot. Robbie Deans is an All Black and has struggled at international level.
I like Mark Ella’s comments on the game but loved to watch him play more.
September 22nd 2012 @ 1:50pm
Uncle Argyle said | September 22nd 2012 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Also I think it only fair to comment on players you have seen play so I’ll give you my top 10 Wallabies I have ever seen play live or on TV in no particular order;
Mark Ella
David Campese
Tim Horan
John Eales
John Hipwell
Mark Loane
Matthew Burke
Simon Poidevan
Nick Farr-Jones
Roger Gould
September 22nd 2012 @ 2:57pm
sheek said | September 22nd 2012 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
Uncle,
I’m inclined to pick XVs. My best Wallaby XV from when I first started watching & following the game in the late 60s would be:
1st XV: M.Burke, D.Campese, M.O’Connor, T.Horan, B.Moon, M.Ella, N.Farr-Jones(c), M.Loane, R.Price, G.Cornelsen, J.Eales(vc), D.Vickerman, E.McKenzie, P.Kearns, T.Rodriguez.
2nd XV: R.Gould, B.Tune, J.Little, M.Lynagh(c), J.Roff, S.Larkham, J.Hipwell, T.Kefu, G.Smith, S.Poidevin, S.Cutler, S.Williams(vc), A.McIntyre, T.Lawton, A.D’Arcy.
3rd XV: C.Latham, D.Ioane, D.Herbert, S.Mortlock, L.Tuqiri, P.McLean(vc), G.Gregan, S.Tuynman, D.Wilson, A.Shaw(c), D.Giffin, R.McCall, A.Blades, W.Ross, D.Crowley.
September 22nd 2012 @ 3:07pm
Uncle Argyle said | September 22nd 2012 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
Great teams all Sheek.
…now my Waverly Old Boy who would coach them?
September 22nd 2012 @ 4:00pm
Johnno said | September 22nd 2012 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
What about Andrew Leeds sheek.
September 22nd 2012 @ 4:12pm
Uncle Argyle said | September 22nd 2012 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
Glenn Da Vanzo
September 22nd 2012 @ 5:29pm
Johnno said | September 22nd 2012 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
lol Uncle we are all getting funny now i will add brett papworth too the list too he had real talant as did the Burke brothers and brian smith and james grant and ian williams lol. So much trivia now. Oh and damien smith too, he sends a big giddy to campo lol .
September 22nd 2012 @ 5:31pm
Johnno said | September 22nd 2012 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
No andy slack sheek brave man. brett papworth and the Burke brothers should be pushing for a spot as well as andrew leeds.
September 22nd 2012 @ 3:02pm
sheek said | September 22nd 2012 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
CJ,
Getting back to your article, when I was a kid, Ampol put out a book on cricket, or was it Rothmans? Never mind, it was a terrific book all the same.
The book was divided into different sections – opening batting, middle order batting, wicket-keeping, different batting techniques, different bowling techniques, fast bowling, swing bowling, offspin bowling, legspin bowling, slips fielding, out fielding, catching & throwing, captaincy, tactics, fitness, preparation, & so forth.
Each chapter was written by either a current or recently retired test cricketer. In other words, the skills of many current & recent players were utilised to educate young devotees of the game.
With rugby, recently retired Wallabies could be untilised to pass on their skills & knowledge across a wide range of areas from positional play to tactics & so on. But it isn’t being done…..
September 24th 2012 @ 3:59pm
El Gamba said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
Ella wrote a good book – “Running Rugby” from memory. I could be wrong. I still have it somewhere I think.