Is rugby league actually a better spectacle than union?
By Phil Bird, 23 Sep 2012 Phil Bird is a Roar Guru & Live Blogger
- Tagged:
- NRL, Rugby League, Rugby Union
380 Have your say
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There’s evidence to suggest rugby league is more popular than union. This is strange, if not downright counterintuitive. And it’s critical we understand why league is on top, because the survival of union depends on it.
It’s worth discounting AFL at this point because it’s in a totally different market. Let’s leave that battle for another day.
And before we go into things, it’s probably worth questioning what it means for a sport to be popular.
Generally the more popular something is the less inherent quality it actually has; reference Britney Spears (pre-haircut), Twilight, and Two and a Half Men.
But moving on from this uncomfortable niggle, and logging on to Wikipedia you will discover that league is officially a “faster more entertaining game for spectators”.
How disillusioning for union tragics such as myself, to recieve this from the authority on all information.
Compounding this finality, rugby league gets a $1 billion television deal and games played live every week, while union gets contemptuous coverage from Channel Nine, probably designed to protect a commercial interest in league by playing zero live rugby games. Of course the rights to the rugby must have been extremely cheap for channel 9 to be able to do this.
Also, in reading the daily newspaper you’ll wade through 16 pages of league editorial until you reach a token article on rugby; generally next to the trotts and probably readdressing the issue of how defunct the Waratahs management is.
And of course, judging by the rhetoric on The Roar, you’d think the game was less functional than an intoxicated P-plater operating a forklift.
So why is league more entertaining? No idea. Why should it be less entertaining?
Well…
How about the suggestion that league lacks variety, spontaneity, continuity of play? Yes there will be people to argue that rugby is the stop-start game. Agreed the scrums in union are broken, and yes you’d rather stick the leg of a chair through your ear and mash your corpus callosum than sit through a 15th scrum reset. And acknowledged, the Wallabies kick the ball more times in a game than a smoker kicks the habit.
But in between these affronts there’s a continuous, fluid contest where anything can happen, rather than the five tackles kick, five tackles kick, four tackles kick, five tackles kick you get in league.
Compounding the monotony in league, displays of initiative appear to be limited to the old chestnut of kicking on the fourth, and the forwards have discarded the extravagance of a sidestep, preferring to run in a straight line, only to be tackled five to seven metres closer to the opponents’ try line; a process repeated 497 times per game.
In rugby there’s a range of additional contests from rolling mauls, lineouts, dominance at the ruck and pilfering, all adding to the depth and complexity of the contest, and introducing strategy to the game. It provides a platform for great rivalries like McCaw versus Pocock and Gregan versus Kelleher. The contest is cerebral as much as it is athletic or skilful.
With league, the strategy may be limited to running lines and putting up the high ball on the last tackle. It’s not a case of league players being less intelligent than rugby players; it’s about the constraints of their game strangling the scope for creativity.
What grates most, however, is the guaranteed exchange of possession. This concept introduces a fait accompli, as every time you get the ball you’re resigned to losing it. It’s a suffocating thing, and strips the game of the ardour that anything’s possible.
There are a few other deities in league, such as the scrums which are less useful to mankind than a haemophiliac vampire. But on the whole it’s the machination of the game that’s taken the joy out of it for this observer.
It used to be entertaining back in the 90s, when Alfie Langer would trip-tackle his way into immortality and the Footy Show was actually something you wanted to watch. Back then the skills and athleticism were of a lesser standard, noted, but it meant the play was erratic and there was the possibility of something unexpected happening in every play. This had the effect of producing a fantastic game to watch.
Yet these days, even State of Origin has got an edge of banality to it. Notwithstanding, it’s probably enjoying unprecedented success.
Of course the opinions expressed here are from a biased rugby fan; there’s always the other side of the coin.
Can anyone provide their position as to why league is more entertaining than rugby?
Or can Wikipedia be wrong?
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September 24th 2012 @ 7:06am
Johnno said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
Id say very even. But I will say this. I don’t think I have ever seen a more electrifying dynamic performance than the Dogs on the weekend. A combined team effort was end to end stuff, width to width almost like the green machine in 90′s but far faster pace. Like the green machine and broncos sides in the early 90′s 90-95 they could turn it on at anytime. Was electrifying Ben Barba. Maybe the adam reynolds injury allowed such pace. but sure was fast. Dessy Hasler but be an aerobics master, or his strength and conditioning team super fit.
A lot of sand runs at wanda beach and triathlons I reckon. Waratahs and wallabies take note that i show to play footy and to be in the right physical shape. I have seen the AB’S under graham henry try and play end to end rugby, and vs tonga in 20111 world cup. The iTM cup 5 secone rule now chiming into rugby has opened the game up speeded rugby up.
However Canberra crowds are down and have been on decline 12 years since 2000. But for the finals a full house like the canberra VS Cronulla at cannbera stadium was a full house. Canberra stadium when full on a beautiful day in a big game is awesome athpmosphere, was like green machine 20 years ago in the 90′s .
The reds got more crowds than the broncos this year.
September 25th 2012 @ 6:11pm
ceboss said | September 25th 2012 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
I believe the reds got more crowds because the Boncos were terrible and the fans are not used to an absence of a marque player in there team like Locky,Lewis,Walters ect ect. It goes to show that when times are though alot of Bronco fans are not prepared to support there team unconditionally. The NSW Blues fans have proven they will stand by there team when times are in crisis mode.
September 26th 2012 @ 12:48pm
Casual Poster said | September 26th 2012 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
Considering the Broncos average was around the same when the players you mentioned where around, I say you’re pretty much wrong.
September 26th 2012 @ 9:02pm
Armado said | September 26th 2012 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
Where oh where do you start with rugby union in Australia?
It is a code stuck in a time warp and they seem intent on just being this sport for the bourgeoise. Tony Abbott is a perfect example of one of them. Loves to think of themselves in the social elite and turn their noses up to all beneath.
Good luck making your game mainstream with that attitude. Maybe Channel Nine going belly up with be a blessing in disguise for them.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:11am
hog said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Just a point but i have been watching a lot of ITM cup lately(due to the fact that their is no Rugby currently in AUS!!!!), and i find the games free flowing and attacking and and more enjoyable than some of the test matches served up.
Yes i know it;s different but to me why is the comp that is treated with total lack of respect by the nzru producing the most enjoyable rugby to watch, just maybe we have things upside down.
September 24th 2012 @ 4:12pm
Sircoolalot said | September 24th 2012 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
Test matches have been crap for quite a while now, i find
September 24th 2012 @ 7:12am
Ziggy said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:12am | Report comment
RL has it over RU because it has simpler laws(rules) and a better system to keep Refs to standard. RU has poor refs who give inconsistent rulings which affect the result of most games. Some are undoubtedly biased or influenced by players or the crowd. If RU keeps on with their present approach they are doomed in the long term.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:44am
Johnno said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Ziggy but many fans love set pieces, and rugby i find now with the ball coming out faster 5 seconds has more variables. Set pieces (kick offs, lineouts scrums, add a dimension that rugby league does not have. Rleague can get repetitive coz of that 6 tackles 5 tackles run then 6 kick. Also a shot clock on kicking goals is good to like only 90 seconds so that will speed up the game of rugby union too.
Rugby the ball goes all over the place. This 5 second rule will speed the game up and really exhaust modern defensive patterns. Id consider moving defence back 8-10 metres too, but maybe they wont have to with the 5 second rule. And i’d make tries 6points not 5. But what i don;t was is for rugby to be like touch forty, and set pieces reduced to sweet nothings in the air.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:22am
M.O.C. said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:22am | Report comment
Ziggy, I think that you would find that at this exact moment, there is less satisfaction with RL refs than ever before and their terrible blunders this season (even in the last fortnight) makes your comments about “simpler laws” and “a better system to keep Refs to standard” a bit of a joke.
September 24th 2012 @ 9:33am
Australian Rules said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Have to Agree with that MOC, I’ve lost count of the number of articles about “How to Fix the Refs” on the league threads.
September 24th 2012 @ 3:32pm
Mantis said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
MOC is right
September 24th 2012 @ 7:23am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:23am | Report comment
alot of this article really only applies to aus and this is a case of not being able to see the trees for the forrest.
missed the doggies playing in the weekend, shame as heard it was a good game. ITM has been awesome.
and neither is better than the other, they both have different advantages
September 24th 2012 @ 2:44pm
biltongbek said | September 24th 2012 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
Absolutely agree, it’s like saying biltong is more popular than soup. It applies to South Africa.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:33am
Dean - Surry Hills said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:33am | Report comment
The RL Grand Final is on in 6 days. This article should have been published at another time – instead it appears like a prepubescent pimple that pops up a few days prior to the big date. I would advise all RL fans not to respond.
September 24th 2012 @ 9:06am
Col Quinn said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Sorry Dean, I am going to respond because this article was written by a person who watches RU only. RL does not have an attack based around 5 tackles and kick. Running on the 6th tackle is common. Now, when a kick is made after the 5th tackle, you cannot predict what type of kick it will be, up and under, grubber, banana, floater, chip, long-ranger, 40/20. In RU close your eyes and heave, it seems to be the only type of kick used. The variety in attack in RL is far greater and expansive than seen in RU. The ball movement from side to side, the probing and testing of defence is no longer seen in RU. Some correspondents quote the ITM as an alternative to RL. Yes, great attacking RU but an SG Ball RL side defends better than most ITM sides and this is another aspect where RL has it all over RU, exciting defence. The difference between RU and RL can be simply illustrated by the one, two, three pass sequence between Smith to Cronk to Slater in the final against Manly. Such precision and open passing play does not happen in RU. Now I know there will be a plethora of correspondence highlighting the great play, by various RU sides, but the viewers have spoken with their remotes. You just can’t see what is happening in RU. The ball is buried in endless rucks and scrums and when it does make it to the backs, the ball is kicked. In RL you can see the ball you can see how side apply tactics to try and break defence. You can see what is going on in RL. Migrants to Australia, who have never seen RL or RU, describe RU as disorganised and a scramble.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:11am
Sledgeandhammer said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:11am | Report comment
September 24th 2012 @ 10:24am
steve b said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
i played both, love em both ,but i think league is a better spectacle for the viewer rucks are a scramble and have the new viewer bemused at what is going on but once they get whats going on they love it ,so for mine watch em
both their great entertainment …
September 24th 2012 @ 10:34am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:34am | Report comment
agree steveB – that doesnt mean its better. i played gridiron and that was a nightmare for the spectator who hadnt grown up with it but its was far better playing it than either rugby or league
September 24th 2012 @ 10:41am
steve b said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
ok never had a go at gridiron looks like a great game ,have watched a few superbowls though ,and the Americans love it , i think if given the chance they would adopt ,both union and league, they do have some teams over their don’t they …
September 24th 2012 @ 11:34am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
steve – gridiron is awesome. all the crash and bash without any of the fitness. team work factor is alot more important in gridiron than rugby or league.
i love rugby and league but i loved playing gridiron more.
September 25th 2012 @ 4:17pm
CBDoggz4lyfe said | September 25th 2012 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
American Football was fun to play because you remove the mentality of pain. All the gear on you feel invincible and thats why you see such ferocious hits because its all or nothing. Take the gear off and play football like that and you’ll end up killing someone. RL and RU as a contact sport with no gear far outweighs NFL football. Debate is as a spectacle League is more fun to watch if you have no exposure to any of the sports
September 24th 2012 @ 11:08am
Leo said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Each to their own Col Quinn but pointing out some parts of one game or two to help your point doesn’t cut it. Its a shame you only have Australian rugby league to argue your point but I’ve been watching rugby union in many countries. Defence in school rugby in South Africa and New Zealand from what I’ve seen on tv is way better than what you get in SG Ball RL games.
The 2011 and 2012 Toyota cup top scorer have been rugby union kids from NZ schools.
2011
Leading try scorer
Omar Slaimankhel – Auckland Grammar 1st XV
Leading point
Dylan Collier – Hamilton Boy’s High 1st XV
2012
Leading point scorer
Manaia Rudolph – Mahurangi College 1st XV
September 24th 2012 @ 10:48am
steve.h said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
I’m a migrant to Australia and I find league dull and over hyped.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:53am
steve b said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
So tell us what sport do you prefer, if you say league is over hyped …
September 24th 2012 @ 11:02am
steve.h said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Rugby, Cricket, Football even the odd game of AFL. I’ve tried the whole season to get into league but its just painfully dull.
September 24th 2012 @ 11:05am
steve.h said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:05am | Report comment
I know he said migrants that havent seen either games but I came from a country that no one watches league or has even heard of the game and the way certain people carry on, on this site I was expecting to be blown away and I wasn’t. I strangely have grown quite fond of AFL over the last year.
September 24th 2012 @ 11:14am
Leo said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
According to tv ratings there probably only 50,000 iimgrants in Australia watching channel nine games and about 10,000 on foxtel and when you add SOO then that number jumps to 100,000. I have no idea there are only 100,000 immigrants in Australia.
September 24th 2012 @ 11:19am
steve b said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:19am | Report comment
ok Steve h i guess we can’t please everyone !
September 24th 2012 @ 11:34am
steve.h said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
I didn’t say league has to please everyone but broad statements about league being far more exciting and popular is a completely subjective notion. The headline should have made some reference to Australia because league being more popular as a commercial entity is a uniquely Australia Papua New Guinea situation.
September 26th 2012 @ 12:53pm
Casual Poster said | September 26th 2012 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
You say that RL is boring and then go on to say you like cricket.
Anyone else see the problem here?
September 26th 2012 @ 9:13pm
Armado said | September 26th 2012 @ 9:13pm | Report comment
Got to agree with you steve.h, I also just do not get the attraction of NRL over say soccer, AFL or even union.
Personally, I would not go within a mile of an NRL match. A very one dimensional sport. If I was a junior player, I would find so many other sports more attractive to play. Just running madly at a tackle is crazy.
September 24th 2012 @ 11:46am
Rough Conduct said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
You really think RL attack is unpredictable? The whole game is about predictability, “completing your sets” is the name of the game – that means executing a pre-determined game plan. Ball movement? Ball movement? Most ball movement is one-out, you can make easy metres one-out so why move the ball at all, it only increases risk of “not completing your sets”. The RL back line moves are so pedestrian, the end-over-end passing and the ubiquitous decoy runners – the crisp, sweeping Rugby backline moves make a far greater spectacle. “Such precision and open passing play does not happen in RU” this egregious statement completely destroys the credibility of your argument.
I have no problem with RL being a more popular game, I completely understand that it provides an easily digestible, gladiatorial, ultimately entertaining product, but to argue that it is the unpredictability and ball movement that makes the game entertaining is so far off the mark.
September 24th 2012 @ 1:18pm
Col Quinn said | September 24th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
In two words “what rubbish” RU, when tries are scored, every second or third game, it is usually from a pushover. Backline movements in RU they happened twenty years ago. Most backs don’t last very long in RU; they end up with pneumonia and have to retire from constantly catching colds.
September 24th 2012 @ 1:55pm
Sledgeandhammer said | September 24th 2012 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
credibility = zero
September 24th 2012 @ 2:15pm
Rough Conduct said | September 24th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
At least a pushover try is genuine contest, rather than the repetitious and banal tactics employed by RL “playmakers” of going to the air when they get close to the tryline – simply hoping for a fortuitous bounce. How many times did we see this in Origin, the pinnacle of RL?
Rugby backs are deployed at any time during the game, unlike the formulaic RL set of 6, where the first 3 are mandatory one-out hit-ups. This, for me, makes for a far more entertaining contest, and also means that backs must defend in their position, they cannot be not moved away from the front line due to the comfort of RL’s arbitrary possession laws.
People like RL because it is a simple contest where space is freely available and blokes are belting each other, that is it, trying to put forward an argument for nuanced, unpredictable play and innovative attack is like trying to tell me about the layered, emotional complexity of a Nickelback album.
September 24th 2012 @ 2:36pm
oikee said | September 24th 2012 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
That might be true, but going to the air was probably the best invention rugby league ever came up with, spectator wise, and veiwing wise.
It incised the AFL fanbase so much thei glorious leader poached our best high-jumper, Issy Falou.
That is simply another weapon in the NRL arsenal, which the game has planty, spped, skills, and now kids that can leap, and i see the Basketball player in this weeks grand final under 20 game, (Edrick Lee) has now opened up another pathway league might not have bothered about. Basketball players, why let AFL have the pick of the bunch.
Anyhow, the flying leap, it is spectacular, ask AFL, and the crowds love seiing the boys fly high.
I also like the topedo crossfield rocket they are now adapting, league is still progressing, we have many NFL ideas left yet to introduce to the game.
Makes the game even more exciting. To think, we also can cut back the interchange, make it even more exciting for smaller players. Many things the game can do, i feel we have not even scratched the surface of excitement, big fire, cheergirls, mascots, that is the tip of the iceburg.
September 24th 2012 @ 2:59pm
GWS said | September 24th 2012 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
That’s bs. Every Rl backline uses the same moves. It’s hard to even find an inside pass. Its all decoy runners
September 25th 2012 @ 1:31pm
RebelRanger said | September 25th 2012 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
Guess you don’t watch the Storm then
September 26th 2012 @ 12:55pm
Casual Poster said | September 26th 2012 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Or the other 16 NRL teams.
September 26th 2012 @ 11:32pm
Leo said | September 26th 2012 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
What do the 16 NRL teams do? The just do the same moves its getting boring.
September 24th 2012 @ 3:37pm
Mantis said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:37pm | Report comment
‘Running on the 6th tackle is common’. No its not. far from it.
I like both sports, but it is a fact that the Wallabies are struggling at the moment. We could field another Wallabies side with the amount of injuries we have, which would stick it to, if not beat our current side.
As far as a spectacle goes, League fans will say League, Union fans will say Union. It depends on what you prefer.
For me nothing comes close to a Bledisloe. Not even origin. But thats just me.
September 26th 2012 @ 12:57pm
Casual Poster said | September 26th 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Yep, you’re right, its only you.
September 26th 2012 @ 7:00pm
Mantis said | September 26th 2012 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
Yeah good one. But no, its not
September 24th 2012 @ 7:37am
waterboy said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:37am | Report comment
A one word reply mate…..tries
Rugby league has plenty of them and in Union they are as rare as hens teeth.
They are what fans want to see
September 24th 2012 @ 7:41am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
waterboy – try watching non oz rugby. NRL would be equivalent of ITM. ITM is littered with tries, bone crunching defence and skill galore
yes test tries have been rare but RC is the best of the best going at each other trying to break their defence.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:23am
M.O.C. said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
“They are what fans want to see” – not if the tries are awarded by dodgy video ref calls that no-one understands, Waterboy.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:51am
Bakkies said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
and from kicks and sloppy schoolboy errors in the ingoal area.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:43am
Robbie deans said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:43am | Report comment
RL has its own problems. Every penalty turns into a try scoring opportunity where there is a kick on the sixth tackle. Repetitive and watchable if you like violent touch football where some refs demand an even game. RU doesnt attract much crowd below internationals because its designed for players and will one day have to adapt to get a broader audience. I’m not sure as every breakdown is a traffic accident and they have adjusted the breakdown rules many times over the years but still struggle. Still the uncertainty is its charm for some..
September 24th 2012 @ 5:11pm
Bakkies said | September 24th 2012 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
”RU doesnt attract much crowd below internationals”
nonsense.
September 25th 2012 @ 5:06am
AIS said | September 25th 2012 @ 5:06am | Report comment
Are you sure, Bakkies? I mean, I’m not a fan of NRL at all, but you have to admit that Rugby doesn’t generate much fan support outside of the country vs. country format. Cricket is very much the same if not much more so.
September 25th 2012 @ 8:52am
Bakkies said | September 25th 2012 @ 8:52am | Report comment
Your comment is based on assumption rather than fact. You clearly don’t watch enough provincial/club rugby that is not played in Australia. There is a world outside of Australia
Super Rugby’s crowd average is 21,400 (Reds had a higher average than the Broncos)
The much lauded NRL a paltry 16,400
Top 14 has smaller home stadiums then the NRL and managed 14,000 average. It’s getting popular by the year. Ligue 1′s average is only 18,000
The Aviva Premiership generally has a better average then Super League despite small home stadiums
September 26th 2012 @ 1:59pm
Casual Poster said | September 26th 2012 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
“Super Rugby’s crowd average is 21,400 (Reds had a higher average than the Broncos)
The much lauded NRL a paltry 16,400″
Smaller amount of games means less chance to see their team. So therefore the higher average. I noticed you didn’t mention total attendance for both comps. Also for the Reds to get there average up they had to win a title while playing a style of union simialar to RL. Nothing to crow about.
“Top 14 has smaller home stadiums then the NRL and managed 14,000 average. It’s getting popular by the year. Ligue 1′s average is only 18,000″
But the average has been around 14, 000 (Top 14) for the past 5 years. Since when has this classed as growing. Also, if there stadiums are smaller then I guess those 70, 000 plus crowds for the Top 14 are BS then.
So lets do another comparision Bakkies
RL- 1 billion plus tv deal (FTA & Pay TV). RU- spare change from Packers old coat pocket.
RL- Record Ratings both FTA and Foxtel. RU- While PAY tv not too bad, FTA your lucky to get RL’s left over timeslots on Gem.
RL- Towns and cities lineing up for a team. RU- Super X teams forced apon cities. A national club competition that failed after a year due to lack of interest.
RL- NRL competeion going from strenght to strenght. RU- a code in crisis in this country.
While I don’t dispute for a second that Union is the bigger global sport, you only make yourself look like a fool Bakkies trying to make out that its even a challenge to RL in Australia.
September 26th 2012 @ 11:52pm
Leo said | September 26th 2012 @ 11:52pm | Report comment
The Reds have a better average and more members than the Broncos and that’s no bull even if league fans come up with all the excuses in the books. The Reds played rugby union and no it wasn’t league as much as you like us to think.
No, top 14 crowds have been growing strong in the last five years and now all the clubs have switch some matches to bigger football stadiums to cater for fans. So its no BS.
So lets do another comparision Casual Poster
NRL – Australian comp
Kerry Packer – Born in Australia
Foxtel – Australian pay tv
ARU – Australian rugby union
While I don’t dispute for a second that Rugby is a global sport, you only make yourself look like a fool Casual Poster trying to make out that RL is strong in every states in Australia.
Now lets move on to NZ, Argentina, Ireland Samoa.
September 27th 2012 @ 6:51am
kovana said | September 27th 2012 @ 6:51am | Report comment
And actually the Top 14 crowd average in 2010 -2011 was 15K. With the Ligue 1 average that season at 19K.
September 25th 2012 @ 9:37am
kovana said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:37am | Report comment
“RU doesnt attract much crowd below internationals ”
Rubbish. I take it you do your best to ignore the 40K average of the Stormers Rugby team?
In fact ALL the Saffa SR teams average more than 20K.
Also, crowds of 70-80K for Rugby Club finals in Europe as well as some regular season matches in the Top 14/HC and AP sometimes hitting that figure as well.
Not to mention how some 2nd division Club teams in france sometimes pull 30K crowds on occasions.
September 24th 2012 @ 11:17am
Leo said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
if sport fans want’s to see tries, goals, touch down then soccer wouldn’t be the world game it is today according to waterboy.
September 24th 2012 @ 2:32pm
Funk said | September 24th 2012 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
MOC are you talking about Vinnie Munro?
September 24th 2012 @ 12:17pm
Emric said | September 24th 2012 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Waterboy – most true rugby fans want to see a contest, a game where your on the edge of your seat until after the final whistle is blown.
Rugby provides more games of contest then league
September 25th 2012 @ 5:41am
Bob Anderson said | September 25th 2012 @ 5:41am | Report comment
I have only discovered rugby (either version) in the past five years, mainly on the internet (I’m not from Australia), so maybe I’m missing something, but why is there an assumption that fans only want to see tries? For me, a low scoring, defensive game, with rolling mauls, strong tryline defense, etc, is more exciting than seeing a bunch of tries, especially easy break aways from mid-field, run in over and over.
I also find drop kicks under pressure to be THE most exciting thing in the entire sport. How can people not find that exciting?
September 25th 2012 @ 7:50pm
Matt_S said | September 25th 2012 @ 7:50pm | Report comment
you’d love golden point then in the NRL where drop goals are done under immense pressure at times. Also a great drop goal to google is Joe Lydon + Drop Goal, 63 metres in an English Challenge Cup semi at Man City’s old Maine Road ground.
September 25th 2012 @ 11:54pm
Leo said | September 25th 2012 @ 11:54pm | Report comment
Plenty of classic drop goals in rugby union. Naas Botha and Hugo Porta doing it from 70 metres out was the best I’ve seen.
September 25th 2012 @ 11:54pm
Leo said | September 25th 2012 @ 11:54pm | Report comment
Plenty of classic drop goals in rugby union. Naas Botha and Hugo Porta doing it from 70 metres out was the best I’ve seen.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:13am
chris said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Mania the difference between NRL and ITM is that people actually watch NRL.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:30am
Steve said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
The reality is nobody really watches the rugby codes. 1 million viewers for a game is not that many.
September 26th 2012 @ 2:04pm
Casual Poster said | September 26th 2012 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
But it is.
Next you’ll say the 3 million for the SOO is small.
September 26th 2012 @ 11:55pm
Leo said | September 26th 2012 @ 11:55pm | Report comment
It is small when you have a population of 22 million. Over two million watched the All Blacks in a country of 4 million.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:51am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
well i for one missed the NRL in the weekend (dogiies 4 life) but caught some ITM
September 24th 2012 @ 12:26pm
Emric said | September 24th 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
where in NZ or Aus? In Aus people watch the NRL in NZ people tend to watch the ITM
September 24th 2012 @ 8:19am
M.O.C. said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
I depends on the quality of game you are watching – unfortunately in Aus, the general standard to rugby from club to international is a poor and the broadcasters fail to show games not featuring the Shute Sheild of WBs – therefore the general pubic can not see free-to-air Union played in it’s most appealing state. By comparison, the NRL is shown free-to-air and it is considered the best league comp in the world and we also see SOO and the Kangaroos who are historically are the best side.
Put this info all together and the answer is in Australia, RL is probably a better spectacle then RU. On a more global stage, I personally feel that RU is a better spectacle, but it needs the right teams playing – ie, I would rather see a NPC game between Canterbury and Auckland than an international between England and Italy.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:59am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
M.O.C. league cant compare to union on the global scale because league is not global.
NRL is awesome but you watch some of the euro super league and thats pretty pedestrian. caught some PNG league a while back and that was really low brow and thuggy.
so if your in oz it may look like that league is winning the war but outside of oz its not even close. NRL is the flagship for league and from what i hear it far outstrips oz union.
dont worry though, as far as a spectacle goes, in NZ ITM is easier more entertaining than NRL round robin.
GO THE DOGGIES!!
September 24th 2012 @ 8:19am
Warren said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
As a RL supporter I enjoy RU when their is that continuation of rucks and mauls. The problem is that it does not happen enough and this is where the game falls down to RL. I think that RU is going through what RL went through in the 80′s. Then RL was really boring with an high emphasis on defence. RU is going through this faze now and what will happen is that rules will be changed as they did with RL to overcome this. Not sure how far they will go with any changes but anything that reduces kicking possession away constantly would be a start. Wouldn’t it be great to see players in RU try a Ben Barba by looking to score from their own line rather than having to kick the ball away. I also agree with mania the ITM is really good to watch. Not as intense a competition but nevertheless a great spectacle. Also thought both NRL matches on the weekend were average.
September 24th 2012 @ 11:25am
Leo said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Your absolutely right Warren but Ben Barba will be sacked or drop from his rugby union side if he made the wrong decision by try to run the ball from his own 22. In league he just have to make sure he’s got the ball safe whether he make 2 metres or 80m. In rugby having the ball taken off you because you got isolated can cost you your spot.
September 24th 2012 @ 12:29pm
Ken said | September 24th 2012 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
I’ve always thought this was the true difference between how the games are played. You could describe it as the mindset of the person running the ball, in Union they rarely are using all of their powers to beat the defender because they have to consider not being isolated. League players aren’t as concerned about this and are more intent on breaking the tackle or sliding through. Score 1 to League. On the other side of the ledger, the support players in League are sometimes lazier because of this – leaving the man with the ball to complete his hit up and not providing any options. Score 1 to Union.
Differences in scrums, possession flows, attacking patterns etc all seem like minor details – if you are a diehard of either side you appreciate these complexities of your own game but in my mind they’re not really the root of the difference between the codes.
September 24th 2012 @ 5:17pm
Bakkies said | September 24th 2012 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
The kicking is generally poor in league. In Rugby kicking it straight down the throat of the opposition back three is suicidal. They either make the ground back by counter attacking or kick it back to get a net gain in field position. To me this is where Barnes struggles with his kicking from general play and he doesn’t make a lot of ground when kicking penalties in to touch. No league team has the counter attacking ability of teams like the Canes and ABs. That includes link play, passing, avoiding tacklers. In league they rely on solo runs from the fullbacks like Mullins, Slater, etc.
September 26th 2012 @ 2:09pm
Casual Poster said | September 26th 2012 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
“No league team has the counter attacking ability of teams like the Canes and ABs. That includes link play, passing, avoiding tacklers. In league they rely on solo runs from the fullbacks like Mullins, Slater, etc.”
Then again you were trying to make out that RU challenges RL in Australia in terms of popularity, so you are prone to spout the odd piece of BS.
September 26th 2012 @ 10:51pm
Bakkies said | September 26th 2012 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
I say the name casual poster is apt for you. You must be a casual watcher of the game then. Where did I mention that real Rugby changes league in Australia? Well…. I stated that the much hyped up and over valued NRL has a woeful average attendance figure.
September 26th 2012 @ 10:59pm
NF said | September 26th 2012 @ 10:59pm | Report comment
real rugby..jeez i hate that term. Then again a league hater like yourself Bakkies like to espouse about the greatness of ‘real rugby’ while kicking league down.
September 27th 2012 @ 12:07am
Leo said | September 27th 2012 @ 12:07am | Report comment
Excuse him Bakkies, Just another leaguie with a huge chip on his shoulder.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:31am
Dogs Of War said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Union just needs to find that balance they had from 1998-2003. Where attacking ball in hand Rugby was the best way to play the game. Sure there will still be the dud matches, but they happen in every sport. It’s a matter of allowing when the conditions are right, the game to be a spectacle, which for me, it hasn’t been for many years now. You only have to see what Quade has said, he knows that this issue for Australia starts at the top, maybe a revolution is in order, Independent Commission anyone?
September 24th 2012 @ 9:00am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:00am | Report comment
DOW – 1998-2003 was oz’ golden years. this wasnt because that union was a superior game it was because oz had the players. same thing now, its not that union is inferior its because the oz players suk
September 24th 2012 @ 9:04am
Dogs Of War said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Even the All Blacks played different, and the majority of NZ and Aus Super 15 attacking Rugby during this period. Well a lot more attacking that what they do now.
It could be that being professional has now caused a real problem at the top end of the game with players being too fit which is not allowing play to develop as much as it used to with defensive lines being in attacking sides faces much quicker.
You can’t say there isn’t a problem with the game. Is it only cause the rule directives come from the Northern Hempisphere?
September 24th 2012 @ 9:12am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:12am | Report comment
DOW – post WC year and all teams are recovering from player exodus and finding their new level of team work.
yes the AB’s played different. they’ve got a new coach, new players and new game plan.
its been professional for almost 20 years so that cant be used as an excuse.
currently defences are tight and offenses are still establishing themselves.
this argument about defences being too tight comes up every 10-15 years or so (ironically same in league). its cyclic. offense dominates then defense. someone will figure it out and then everyone again will trying to think of a new (=retro) d pattern.
league is not superior to rugby or vice versa. they’re both awesome sports and need to learn get along
September 24th 2012 @ 5:49pm
Jiggles said | September 24th 2012 @ 5:49pm | Report comment
1998 – 2003 wasn’t attacking ball in hand rugby. It was about continuity and executing at the ruck correctly. It was pretty stodgy to watch actually if they weren’t getting it right.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:17pm
Gravity Basher said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:17pm | Report comment
Independent commission? I’m in for that.