Will Quade Cooper’s incendiary comments torch the Wallaby camp?
Columnist By David Lord, 24 Sep 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Ewen McKenzie, Quade Cooper, robbie deans, Rugby Union, wallabies
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Quade Cooper of Australia looks on during a Wallabies match(AFP PHOTO / Michael Bradley)
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It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks about injured Wallaby fly-half Quade Cooper, that’s immaterial. The real issue is that where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
Cooper is the smoke – the only remaining question is the location of the blaze.
“There are a lot of people who are afraid to say what they feel, so they just go along with it and nothing is going to change. That’s why I feel so strongly as a player.
“I don’t want to be involved in the toxic environment and that’s how it is at the moment”.
Toxic environment?
Never in my near 50 years of covering rugby has anyone, player or official, used such a damaging word about the code.
There are only two possible reasons for Cooper’s extraordinary outburst. He wants the ARU to tear up his contract for code violations so he can switch to rugby league and team up with his close mate Sonny Bill Williams at the Roosters, or he’s nailed the real problems within Wallaby ranks.
I tend to believe it’s the latter.
With my cards on the table, I’m no longer part of the inner sanctum as I was in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. But think back to how every player, coach Robbie Deans, and even ARU boss John O’Neill have been interviewed this season.
Recall their body language, the look in their eyes, their facial expressions. All three have been synonymous with “I don’t want to be here, but I must”.
There’s been no positivity in their reactions, or answers. More like “let’s get this over and done with as quickly as possible”.
It’s been the same with the NSW Waratahs this season, the worst in the franchise’s history with 12 losses in 16 games, eight of those losses on the trot.
But not with the Queensland Reds, even though they didn’t retain their Super Rugby title. Ever since president Rod McCall and coach Ewen McKenzie teamed up in 2010, the Reds have been positive, transparent, and successful.
Prior to that the Reds were a basket case. Toxic would have been a good description in 2006, finishing 12th among the 14 sides, then going on to finish last in 2007, 12th in 2008, and 13th in 2009.
With the McCall-McKenzie combination at the helm, they were seventh among 15 in their first season, and first-time champions in their second. A huge turnaround.
And I’m quite convinced the same will happen to the Waratahs next season, now Roger Davis is the new president and Michael Cheika the new coach.
Which brings us back to Quade Cooper and his smoke inside the Wallaby camp, where he has been far more active injured than he’s been on the paddock all season.
“All I want to do is fix the problems, and get on with it and win rugby games.
“But if that is to say that Ewen (McKenzie) is the new coach of course I would support that. That’s not to say I’m not supporting Robbie (Deans), he’s done a lot for me as a kid coming through”.
That last comment smacks of five bucks each way, covering all bases.
But clearly there are massive problems within the Wallaby ranks, and it’s the only way to explain why the men in gold are world beaters one day, easybeats the next.
There’s also a clear indication senior Wallabies are playing no small part in the problem.
Cooper has only fanned the glowing embers, he hasn’t been the cause, although he may well be a part of it.
When the Reds were a basket case, only a clean-out fixed the malaise. The same will apply to the Waratahs.
Which begs the question, has Quade Cooper started a fire that will clear out the Wallabies?
- Explore:
- Ewen McKenzie, Quade Cooper, robbie deans, Rugby Union, wallabies
September 24th 2012 @ 7:02am
Tarragon Fields said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:02am | Report comment
Seems evident that at least one of the players feels the same way as we Roarers do.
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:46pm
yelp said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
I love the evidence, body language of officials:) pretty damning stuff:)
September 24th 2012 @ 7:09am
daniel said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:09am | Report comment
how gutless wait till his team and coach are over the other side of the world to attack. Making the wallabies is a privilege not a right , its about the team not about what he is allowed to do as an individual. No one in nz likes him and soon no one in aus will like him. Shouldnt everyone in the wallabies be committed to biulding to the world cup if not and its about you please leave and play league where you can throw your stupid passes and have no worries because you will get the ball back in 5 tackles
September 24th 2012 @ 8:15am
Hoy said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:15am | Report comment
Who the hell cares in noone in NZ likes him?
September 24th 2012 @ 6:30pm
Jerry said | September 24th 2012 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
Well, I’d imagine this Mr Noone, whoever he is, probably cares.
September 25th 2012 @ 8:40am
Holly Farr-Carnelle of Mosman said | September 25th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
HaHa! Gold!
Holly
September 24th 2012 @ 9:05am
brooke48 said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
DANIEL,Have to agree with you cos coopers done nothing for australian rugby;hes a hit and miss wizard and ill disciplined.
the tail wags the dog at the reds and this latest outburst coupled with beale,ioane and coopers latest 2am car accident is indicative of whats really wrong.Lordy cant see the wallaby injuries and coopers poor performances just a need to replace deans.lets get a coach that has a strong discipline code and not replace with one who plays Genia at ten and fails .
this is not about the sonnybill circus come to town is it?
players and player managers want to take over rugby union.The fair weather friends.
September 25th 2012 @ 8:44am
Holly Farr-Carnelle of Mosman said | September 25th 2012 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Brooke, this is the Rugby section of The Roar. From your literary skills, I can tell that you are a League-lover at heart.
But, it’s good to have you visit with us here in the Rugby pages.
Holly
September 25th 2012 @ 8:56am
Golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Haha yeah the real issue is cooper, ioane and beale were in a minor car accident, that’s what’s really wrong! Not team selections or poor tactics from the coach
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:47pm
yelp said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
what does a car accident have to do with anything?
September 24th 2012 @ 9:16am
Jimbo Jones said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
You seem to be having a dig at the player and the game, and not the issue at hand that should be addressed. Maybe there are ways that he should have approached this, perhaps in private but I guess we as outsiders have no idea if he already has tried privately. I’m going to back Cooper on this one and hope that the problems can be resolved so he can stay in Rugby Union. He may be hot and cold but when he is on song and pulling the strings in a game, there is a real energy and excitement about it that we dont seem to have with other players in the no. 10 jersey.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:43am
GWS said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:43am | Report comment
I like him and i’m glad someone has finally had the guts to say what I have suspected since the rwc. Deans is gone. His time is up. He has done a lot of good but his time has passed. A kiwi cant teach us to bash kiwis. He has brought us this far but its going to take someone else to get us over the line.
September 24th 2012 @ 11:15pm
JapanBoy said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:15pm | Report comment
I can’t believe there are still people out there who are more prepared to listen to Quade Cooper than Robbie Deans and common sense. And I say “listen to” advisedly, because that’s all you can do – there’s very little to be seen from him out there on the pitch. Just because he has now had an explosion in that part of his anatomy where most people have a brain, why does that make him some sort of all-seeing guru?
Cooper is simply not up to Test match rugby, and all the apologising for him, every time, every time, every time . . . . he goes missing in action are just, to put it bluntly, a load of crap.
Here in Japan I’ve been watching his “mate” Sonny Bill and marvelling again/still at his skills. It is certainly not his fault that Panasonic is not winning the games he has been playing in so far. But QC is not anything like that sort of talent, and surely the NRL would be watching his performances with more and more dismay too. How anyone could possibly believe that someone both inept at and averse to tackling could ever make it as a No 6 in the NRL is totally beyond me.
For a start, like good No 10s in Union, they need to have a modicum of intelligence. Cooper has never showed much of that, and in his current, ill-timed, mis-spelled, inarticulate tweets – his only form of communication, it would appear, no matter how inadequate – he has shown that any he might once have had has long since evaporated.
In his own muddle headed way, it seemed that he was trying to aim his comic swiped at the ARU and Robbie Deans, and stay sweet with the Reds, so it was particularly pleasing to see that they have also issued a statement indicating they have had a gutful of him as well.
It has become so frustrating watching his appallingness (maybe a new word there!) EVERY time, and then having to endure the endless stream of “oh well, maybe he’s just one game off a blinder” type comments for the next week from a lot of people, David, who have been around long enough to know better.
September 25th 2012 @ 9:02am
Golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Japan boy you have absolutely no idea, the coach will give the team including cooper a game plan to follow, what cooper does so well is follows and executes that game plan. Cooper creates try’s! He puts people into holes and ewen Mckenzie who has to be one of the smartest coaches going around backs cooper 100% and often talks about his rugby intelligence.
Wake up mate
September 25th 2012 @ 9:18am
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Golden Bull you have absolutely no idea. Cooper does reasonably well at S15 level, but that doesn’t mean that his manifest problems at test level are anyone’s fault but his own. The fact is that some players do much better at 2nd tier than they do at 1st tier.
Cooper hasn’t been a bad fly-half for Australia, but he hasn’t been a world-beater either. In other words, he hasn’t lived up to his initial promise. On his day he can be devastating, but unfortunately those days are increasingly few and far between.
September 25th 2012 @ 9:32am
Golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
I didn’t know cooper had to be a world beater? Is this how it works? You think every wallaby has to be a world beater? So name the ones that are?
Can I ask you a question? Isn’t it the coaches job to make a world beating team? So has deans failed then?
And just for the record what was coopers initial promise? I would have thought his role role was to carry out a game plan set by the coach? I have noticed errors from cooper that’s for sure but does it seem the tactics are failing too? Is cooper the coach too?
September 25th 2012 @ 9:40am
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
No I am not saying that Quade or anyone else has to be a world-beater. The point of my comment was that your posts appeared to be making him out to be a world-beater. In other words, I was saying that your comments imply that he is far better (at test level) than he really is. I agree that he has been a reasonably good Australian fly-half, all things considered, and there is nothing wrong with that.
September 25th 2012 @ 1:58pm
golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
you didnt answer any one of my questions and you seem very quick to go backwards in trying to prove a point. My point is that the wallabies would be lost without cooper running the backline. Not to say sometimes he is the reason they are not going so well, he is also the reason why we can put 40 on the spring boks last year, he puts people through holes. Also we need someone with balls to say what the most or australian fans want someone to say. Deans has to go, do you not agree?
September 25th 2012 @ 2:16pm
Red Kev said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
Golden Bull is on the money – it is a very easy point to overlook but of the 23 Super Rugby matches Quade has played over the last two years, the Reds have won 20 of them. He’s a match-winner (as opposed to a world-beater) and McKenzie knows how to utilise him.
September 25th 2012 @ 2:34pm
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Golden Bull, I disagree that I haven’t answered any of your questions. Several of them were built on a false premise, that I expect every Wallaby to be a world beater. I have already explained that I do not hold that view. Therefore several of your questions are irrelevant.
But in case there is any doubt, and since you ask, here are some more answers:
1. No I do not think it is “the coach’s job to make a world beating team”. He has some responsibility but not all of it.
2. No I do not think Deans has failed. I think he is guilty of doing things not much different to his predecessors, and of being unable to replicate his Crusaders’ success at test level. I am on record stating on the Roar before RWC 2011 that I would have liked him to be replaced with McKenzie, not because I thought he was incompetent, but because I thought he had a decent run and it was time for new blood. Having said that, I could live with his 2-year contract extension because (a) he is not really bad, and (b) the coach is only part of the picture anyway.
3. Nor do I think it is guaranteed that McKenzie will succeed in doing better than Deans. He might or he might not. The circumstances with Wallabies are quite different to with the Reds.
4. Cooper’s “initial promise” was of being a worlld-class test five eighth. I am sorry, but the simple truth is that he isn’t so. He is a very good S15 fly, and overall he is a reasonable test fly (when you add up the good stuff and the bad stuff).
5. Most of the complaints about the team not adjusting their tactics to Cooper are irrelevant – he was out with injury until part-way through this series. The Wallabies had to play two tests overseas in December, four at home in June, and a couple at the beginning of 4N, all without Cooper, and in that time they had to adjust to someone else. That isn’t anyone else’s fault, its just what happened. If Cooper comes back after an enforced lay-off, he has to THINK and not expect players to instantly adapt to him, when they have been working with BB for months.
6. I do not agree that we need any player with the balls to say anything. That is not their job. If all the players had a problem with the coach, and there was no other way to solve it, then the issue should have been taken up by someone very senior and respected – e.g. Nathan Sharpe. But that is irrelevant because there is no evidence that the players as a whole do have a problem with Deans.
Okay, you asked, I answered. I hope everyone is happy now.
September 25th 2012 @ 2:43pm
golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Mike you have a lot more faith in Deans than most people. I at least now understand where your coming from however I beleive Ewen would get more out of this group then Deans does, he just doesnt seem to be able to communicate properly and from what I can see he lacks the tactics needed to win games. Please Robbie just leave do us all a favour!
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:51pm
yelp said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
I agree with you Mike and JapanBoy
September 25th 2012 @ 9:54am
macka said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
They are the 2nd best indeed – but only just. Plus the All Blacks are way ahead – which for a country with more sheep than people, shouldn’t be.
The Wallabies have slipped under Dean’s conservative approach. If you have players with superb skills, what a good coach does is build a strategy of play around those freakish abilities – as the Chiefs & All Blacks did so very successfully around SBW.
However, Deans has never done that around talented players like Beale, O’Connor & especially Cooper.
Plus, Cooper hit the nail on the head when he stated that the Wallabies are a bore to watch. For the first time during the rugby international season, i actually look to league with real interest – something unthinkable whilst the Super Rugby season is in swing.
Deans should be axed and if Ewen can be brought in it should be done…If not, then try bringing in Graham Henry from across the ditch – though i highly doubt that is a realistic possibility. Either way, something must be done to end the rot that Cooper so riskily -to his own self- noted.
September 25th 2012 @ 12:59pm
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
“Plus the All Blacks are way ahead – which for a country with more sheep than people, shouldn’t be.”
I have news for you – the All Blacks have been consistently No 1 for most of international rugby’s history. Even before rankings existed, its easy to see from the test results that NZ would have No 1, and Australia would have moved around 2, 3, 4 or 5. Sheep or no sheep.
If we want to turn this around, then we have to be realistic. And suggesting that Australia has some God-given right to be higher than No 2 (or even 3 or 4) is not being realistic – this will take hard work, and copmprehensive changes in Australian rugby. Blaming the coach for everything is stupid – this coach is doing no worse than his predecessors: worse than a few, better than some.
I do not agree that the All Blacks “built a strategy of play around the freakish abilities” of SBW. He is very good (and way ahead of Cooper) but he did not drive the All Blacks – he fitted in to the team.
September 25th 2012 @ 2:49pm
golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Macka, you have summed it up well. I agree 100% with some of the talent we have I beleive we could be number 1 with the right coach, Robbie is obviously not the right guy. There should be a strategy build around the talent we have. Look at McCabe, while I think he is getting a lot better I fing it unbeleivable that he is our best 12? Rob Horne being selected, dean Mumm for years. Drew mitchell on the wing against the all blacks, no cooper in game 1 but in game 2 all of a sudden he is match fit. No Backup to pocock at the world cup but now 2 on the bench…… Deans is lost
September 25th 2012 @ 3:33pm
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
Golden Bull, some of your comments illustrate the absurdity of many attacks on Deans. For heavens sake, attack the man for the things he does wrong, not for things that are patently not his fault or are beyond his control. For example:
“Look at McCabe, while I think he is getting a lot better I fing it unbeleivable that he is our best 12?” – He is not my selection, but many people vehemently support it and have throughout. That doesn’t show Deans is “lost”. He has made clear his reasoning, that McCabe has mongrel. I may disagree, but I understand where he is coming from.
“Rob Horne being selected” – many other coaches would have given Horne a try-out. He well illustrates the point that form in S15 does not always translate to test level.
“Drew mitchell on the wing against the all blacks” – What is the problem with this?
“no cooper in game 1 but in game 2 all of a sudden he is match fit” – If you see this as evidence of some conspiracy against Cooper then you really are in cloudcuckoo land. Cooper had just come back from almost a year injured. Deans and his staff were 100% right to be wary of any risk of further injury. Given that Cooper has just gone down again, they were right to be careful. They are doing the same thing with O’Connor, not bringing him back until fully satisfied he is fit, even though they desperately need him, in any position.
“No Backup to pocock at the world cup” – who on earth was Deans supposed to pick? Players who were inexperienced even at S15 level, like Beau Robinson? The best suggestion I have heard is Phil Waugh, but many people felt that would have been the wrong decision also.
“but now 2 on the bench” – are you seriously suggesting that Deans was supposed to have picked Hooper for RWC????
“Deans is lost” – he may not be the only one!
September 25th 2012 @ 5:25pm
golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 5:25pm | Report comment
Mike if you dont see the issues with what I have pointed out then sorry mate, you just dont get it. Are you related to deans?
Wallabies should be based on form….you jion the dots
September 25th 2012 @ 5:32pm
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
I certainly don’t get it. When you are able to support some of your assertions with reasoned argument, then I might.
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:53pm
doug said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
The All blacks took one fetcher to the world cup
September 24th 2012 @ 7:11am
Johnno said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Any revolutions history shows are bloody, and often sacrificial victims along the way eg a clean out, or event he ones who initially speak up. But the point is once players or the valued commodities sprat speaking out publicly history shows it is the stat oif momentum, and captures the hearts and minds of fans, and the players, and JON and the ARU are now facing mountain tidal wave of fans anger at the state of aussy rugby. World series cricket, and super league was the same.
Where’s the democracy and free speech. If he is not happy he should tell the world and let aussy rugby fans know, the ARU is a mess, and team wallaby in ARU and wallaby land.
In a democracy polictians cop criticism and scrutiny, what makes Deans, JON, and Nucifora above criticism, from within the circle the actual players.
Aussy rugby is on the decline and a mess , and a fact now a player like Quade cooper speaks up is good as it will cause momentum. Deans,JON, and Nucifora, and other ARU types are arrogant and dictatorial, where they act like they can do what they want for rugby and players and fans just have to accept it and a my way or the highway attitude. Not a good attitude to have, not listening to fans and players, if they are trying to censor players letting there opinions be known to the public.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:21am
daniel said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:21am | Report comment
Quade – eggs on the whole country that the world cup is in and gets them against us, constantly threatens to leave the game if his demands are not met and we should listen to him why?? He doesn’t have australian rugbys best interests at heart. He has his own.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:25am
Johnno said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:25am | Report comment
But the point is he has a right to speak out. Where is the free speech and the right to publicly show his opinions.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:31am
daniel said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
Just because you have the right to do something doesnt mean its right. He is part of a team who are overseas trying to win two extremely tough matches. They dont need this at all. Play an individual sport if you want to advance your own opinions over that of the teams I would hate for him to be part of any team i was playing for.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:47am
GWS said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
you seriously would not like to play with Quade? Get real.
September 24th 2012 @ 11:23am
daniel said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:23am | Report comment
mate I would not like to play with him at all. I would hate to play with someone so arrogant that he says the week leading up to the last test he is considering a switch to league. How can every wallaby not be 100% committed to the world cup. I bet majority of the team would give their left arm and play for free to play for the wallabies in the next world cup and have a four year plan. He is definitely not one of them if his pay wasnt in first thing on pay day he would be calling for a player strike and say if this is not sorted I’m off to league. Anyone who thinks he is doing this for the good of wallabies is as delusional as him. The more people back individuals like him in a team sport the bigger thier heads get.
September 25th 2012 @ 8:16am
guinness14 said | September 25th 2012 @ 8:16am | Report comment
Well said.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:35am
mania said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
quade does have the right to speak out. and deans has the right to drop him for not being conductive to the team efforts.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:07am
M.O.C. said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:07am | Report comment
I like how Cooper is suggesting there are massive problems but does not seem to think that he may be one of them.
September 24th 2012 @ 9:10am
brooke48 said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
MOC;exactly lives in an ignorant delusional world lets hope he goes to league but you know i dont think he has the ticker.F O
September 24th 2012 @ 3:21pm
bluerose said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
agree with u MOC 100%, he should worry about his own problems first before others, “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye”.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:58am
Chris said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Free speech means the ability to say anything you want.
It is not the ability to be immune from criticism when you say something idiotic.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:15am
frisky said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Mr Lord,. Only two possible explanations? No smoke without fire? Nice of you to define the parameters of the debate so that your long held prejudices can be justified.
How about this for a third possibility? There is no fire and Quade is just an egotistical prat who thinks that the world rotates around him. Has he lost his mojo?? – in that case it must be someone else’s fault, obviously Dean’s fault because he, Quade, should be running the show so that he can shine and be accaimed as the world’s greatest footballer.
It is not hard to see why you, Mr Lord, are no longer part of the “inner sanctum” as you put it. Your constant carping criticism reminds me of Paul Keating’s relevance deprivatioin syndrome. Eskimos put their dotty elders onto an iceberg and wave goodbye. Perhaps this site should consider doing something similar with you.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:18am
frisky said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Johnno, I do not agree. If you are part of a team, your rights are cutails by your obligations to the team. This is part of the current generations egocentricity – all about their rights and nothing about their responsibilities.
September 25th 2012 @ 8:51am
Holly Farr-Carnelle of Mosman said | September 25th 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
Jhonno, well put! Another well-crafted and insightful post in your articulate and elegant style.
Holly
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:55pm
doug said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Australian rugby is on the decline and a mess? where is the evidence for that when we have record numbers of juniors in WA, SA and QLD and super rugby crowds up 7%?
September 24th 2012 @ 7:17am
Stephen said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Watching Quade lately has been painful. Seems odd to me that a guy who passes to no-one and the ball ends up over the sideline, gets his kicks charged down often, his punts are always off target and he sn’t very consistent with goal kicks can come out and say this. If Genia or Pocock said this, fair enough. When was Quades last good game? Tri-nations 2011?
September 24th 2012 @ 7:29am
Bear said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:29am | Report comment
Probably was the tri -nations 2011. He was out most of 2012 recovering from a knee reconstruction.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:31am
Stephen said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
Yeah but his world cup was shocking. His super 15 was average and his Four nations was a series of blunders. He should wait until he hits form.. then hammer Deans etc.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:10am
Post said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:10am | Report comment
What a load of it. Quade gets charged down one game and suddenly it’s a common occurrence. He is not the goal kicker for the Reds or the Wallabies, but he’s somehow an inconsistent goalkicker even though he doesn’t take the kicks. He has occasionally thrown off passes, like every single other person to ever play the game. Then, to top it off, Genia has been wildly inconsistent this year yet is used as an example of someone who could rightfully say the same thing.
To sum up, you don’t like Cooper and will find evidence to back up your preconceived belief. Thanks for letting us know.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:33am
Stephen said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:33am | Report comment
I take it all back. Quade is awesome. Please put him into the Wallabies for every game. He will make the world of difference. He will sidestep and run laterally and no-one will predict that. He will get Iaone to tackle for him, Barnes or Beale to kick for him, and you to make excuses for him. All it really leaves him to do is pass and punt… and although you have an oiled up picture of Quade on your wall and are biased, he can’t do that very well.
There is 3-4 people doing the job of a number 10.
September 24th 2012 @ 9:17am
Golden bull said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Stephen, let’s remember the wallabies were on a 10 game losing streak behind giteua until cooper came in, since then we are 2-5, without cooper in the wallabies running the back line we would be on a 17 game losing streak to the all blacks! Australia is fed up with deans and the rugby we are playing, cooper is the only one with the balls to say anything, if it wasn’t true why speak publicly about? He has done what most of us wanted someone to do, playing boring conservative rugby will not beat the all blacks, look at England….they have NEVER beaten the all blacks.
Deans player selections border on a conspiracy!
September 24th 2012 @ 9:37am
Stephen said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:37am | Report comment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_England_and_New_Zealand
The Poms have got them a few times. I am not saying Cooper is hopeless. I am not saying Deans is good either. I guess my problem is he only mentions the issues once he is in a rut and doesn’t get selected. It is in bad taste and it is almost like he is throwing a tantrum. Most of the problems (in my opinion) when watching the Wallabies play is the basics. Quade does a “no look” pass to no-one. Beale gets peppered with bombs and drops a couple. Quade kicks it out on the full. Quade does a pass about 1 metre forward.
All that should have been sorted out when playing school rugby or does Deans have to coach them on how to catch at this point in their career?
September 24th 2012 @ 2:58pm
Golden bull said | September 24th 2012 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
The fact cooper mentions it now doesnt matter, the timing is irrelevant, he has not been selected due to form so there is no bitterness underlying what he is saying, In fact the timing of this is probably a blessing in disguise…and by that I mean we need someone to voice what is happening and cooper is the only one with the balls to do so, and with no risk of being dropped its perfect timing. he has made a point that we should actually listen too! Isn’t this what Australian rugby needs? We demand transparency and cooper gives you this. Look at what happened with the reds after ewen came in, he gave them clear direction and transparency, one thing deans lacks! and this is evident when you hear an interview with him. After the game against the boks they interviewed Liam gill and the panel asked him ‘was it in Robbies game plan to put in the grubbed kicks?’ liam gills response was ‘ yes in a roundabouts kinda way, he spoke about turning them around’
Now if the players can’t identify exactly what he means like the public can’t in his interviews then we are as lost as deans’ words
September 24th 2012 @ 3:29pm
Mike said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
I don’t think we can conclude that Cooper has no stake in this. Deans indicated after RWC that he was looking for someone else to groom as the first-choice Wallaby fly-half. Two potential contenders will return from injury before Cooper does: O’Connor and Lealiifano. Deans previously indicated that O’Connor should specialise in No 10 but in the intervening 8 months he might be prepared now to go for Lealiifano, but it doesn’t really matter which: the point is that Cooper knows he is on the outer. He only got a gig this series because the others were injured. What may be motivating Cooper is that if Deans gets sacked, his most likely replacement is McKenzie who could be expected to keep Cooper as first-choice No 10. So there is clear self-interest in Cooper making these comments.
As others have observed, if Cooper were an All Black he may as well hand in his jersey after making public comments like this. What it will mean with the Wallabies I do not know.
September 24th 2012 @ 12:22pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | September 24th 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
“without cooper in the wallabies running the back line we would be on a 17 game losing streak to the all blacks!”
Bullsht. Cooper has never been instrumental in a Wallabies victory over the All Blacks. I think you must be confusing him with Will Genia or Kurtley Beale.
September 24th 2012 @ 3:13pm
golden bull said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
so his try and the 2 other he set up were not instrimental? the backline has direction when cooper runs it, and I dont mean when rob horne is in the backline.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:15pm
Snobby Deans said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:15pm | Report comment
So Cooper was the reason for the 2 wins – but I’m guessing completely blameless for the 5 losses? Not sure your rationale there is too solid, GB . . .
September 25th 2012 @ 9:08am
Golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Haha even if he was the reason for the 2 wins and 5 losses he has done better than the number 10 before him who was on a 10 game losing streak! I’ll take 40% win ratio with the all blacks any day. But why is it that you can’t see as the number 10 we need him against the all blacks? Barnes will never win a game against the all blacks at 10 I garuntee this!
September 25th 2012 @ 9:30am
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:30am | Report comment
2 wins and 5 losses is not a 40% win ratio. Its about 28%. But that’s in the past anyway.
And Barnes isn’t Cooper’s rival: Barnes has never been a specialist flyhalf and Wallabies coaching staff don’t regard him as one. Barnes only got the gig at 10 because everyone else was injured. Deans was happy to play Cooper in place of Barnes when he was fit. Unfortunately for Cooper, his performance had as many bad points as good points.
September 25th 2012 @ 9:40am
Golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Ok mike who would you have as the 10? My point with cooper is we were horrible for a while there and then cooper came along and we were beating the all blacks again, that’s a good thing. Can you not see that deans isn’t getting the best out of his players?
September 25th 2012 @ 10:01am
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
I don’t follow you – Cooper has a 28% win ratio, but you say he must be kept now, because his predecessor was worse? Can you not see the complete lack of logic in that position? Effectively you are arguing that Giteau’s failings four years ago justify keeping Cooper for ever, regardless of how he performs!
Re current 10, I think Deans made the right decision in November last year when he told O’Connor he should specialise at fly-half. Unfortunately O’Connor’s injury put an end to that after only two matches. Injury also kept out Cooper until a month ago but Deans was willing to give him another chance. Now, if O’Connor is fit by the Bledisloe then that is who I think he should go with. If for some reason O’Connor isn’t ready to come back, then go with one of the young potentials like Lealiifano.
September 25th 2012 @ 2:01pm
golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
fair enough Mike but my point is that he makes the backline fire…its a fact, he does, he puts people into holes which is a lot better then we have had recently, who else is tried at this level? JOC played 1 test. Bring in Ewen you can manage these guys and their talents cause its ovbious deans cant
September 25th 2012 @ 3:03pm
Mike said | September 25th 2012 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
We will just have to agree to disagree on that one. At test level, I think he rarely makes a backline fire. Too often, its fire of the wrong sort as others run to cover up his mistakes.
Yes, McKenzie might make a big difference; I hope he does when he gets his chance. But that is not guaranteed, regardless of how well he has done with the Reds.
September 24th 2012 @ 9:33am
hoqni said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
hahaha. for all it is worth, QC is the best 10 WBs have. and he brings in viewers. So, I agree with you.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:20am
Post said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Who’s throwing a tantrum now….?
September 24th 2012 @ 11:25pm
JapanBoy said | September 24th 2012 @ 11:25pm | Report comment
Well said Stephen. And what little he does do is all flashy, unnecessary stuff designed not for the team’s benefit, but to draw attention to himself. when an ordinary pass will do, he has to do a behind-the-back flick to give the chicks in the stands a bit of the wow factor. If it comes off, everyone says he’s wonderful, but mostly it doesn’t, and people like David Lord says he was unlucky – and that he’s bound to be better next game. It is disgraceful that a whole team’s balance has to be skewed to accommodate his inadequacies by shuffling good players out of their proper positions for long periods of games. Enough is enough!!!
September 24th 2012 @ 9:29am
Merino said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Agree
September 24th 2012 @ 7:25am
WQ said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:25am | Report comment
Talk about GEN Y!
Things are not going they way I want them to, but hey that can’t be my fault!
September 24th 2012 @ 7:35am
Ben.S said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
Michael Hooper? Gen Y talk is lazy dross.
September 24th 2012 @ 9:28am
Golden bull said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Yeah good point, the wallabies are at a very low point in their style, fan base and brand, so much so most people are tuning out because there are players like rob Horne, Ben Robinson, berrick barnes and drew Mitchell playing over form players throughout the super 15 and 1 person speaks out that would know a lot more than you, who i might add, you are not among the wallabies group, yet you pass this off as someone being immature and a spoilt brat, how ignorant! Notice no mention of cooper and the reds? He has not tweeted about the state of the reds and when he copped a 1 week ban for a fine tackle on Barnes his response was ‘ the team will be just fine’ no gen Y response that things aren’t going my way. Then again if there’s nothing to tweet about the reds maybe it’s because there are no issues…..? What generation are you WQ? Have a think about it
September 24th 2012 @ 10:21am
WQ said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Golden bull, just guessing, but are you GEN Y as well?
Your right though of course Golden bull, it must be somebodies fault, I mean it could not be the players fault………? Why don’t you have a think about it?
September 24th 2012 @ 2:08pm
post said | September 24th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Get over yourself WQ. You come across as someone who thinks very highly of themself, which is what you ironically accuse the next generation of being. Newsflash, every generation believes the next is spoiled, into themselves, etc because there are always strong examples of that attitude, particularly amongst young people. Pull your head in and have a think before continuing your useless ad hominem attack on everyone you disagree with.
September 24th 2012 @ 3:02pm
Golden bull said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Exactl post. WQ sound like the type that would say ‘respect your elders’
So if dean was a gen Y coach then you would say he has to go? Or is it his age that makes his lack of tactics and transparency ok?
September 24th 2012 @ 3:54pm
WQ said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
Just quietly Golden bull, you should respect your elders!
I have no doubt that there have been a multitude errors made by the Management and Coaching Staff of the Wallabies, however I have not heard them making statements in the media along the lines of its all the players fault and not ours.
However I have now heard players or a player telling the media that its not his fault but the Management and Coaching Staff have created a Toxic environment for them to play in.
What do you make of that?
September 24th 2012 @ 8:03pm
Golden bull said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:03pm | Report comment
WQ I don’t know what to say? As I feel if I show you how you are completely wrong it may come across like I’m dis respecting you and like you say we must respect our elders. What a load of garbage. You say that you have heard the coaches and management take blame for their part? Where? When? I did read Robbie considered taking cooper of the field for his mistakes. Deans made this public. I have heard from a number of players including cooper say that they are rusty or not up to scratch. I’ll keep saying it, I’m proud 1 player had the balls to step up and make it public as deans is absolutely woeful! How can you justify most of his selections?? Try, please……
His tactics? Getting the best out of his players?
September 25th 2012 @ 9:53am
WQ said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Golden bull, where in anything I have said can you find me saying that I had heard the Coaches accepting responsibility in the media for the mistakes.
Slow down and read what I said, then get back to me.
I assume you are blaming the Coach for all of the woes of the Wallabies at the present?
September 24th 2012 @ 3:09pm
WQ said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
Good afternoon to you to post, you obviously have some magical ability that allows you to determine somebodies character after reading two sentences they have posted, both of which consisted of a couple of dozen words. That’s amazing!
Given how touchy you are about my post, I am picking you maybe GEN Y as well?
I will back up the bus a bit then and ask you a question, If it is not the players fault for their current performance issue’s, then who’s is it? If it is the players fault then why can’t he front up to that and just admit he needs to work harder?
Are you not a bit sick of hearing that it’s every other person’s fault bar the player’s?
September 24th 2012 @ 3:19pm
golden bull said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
He has agreed he has made errors in the recent games and agrees he is also rusty but he does speak about trying to do things in a game that have a positive effect (or should at least) as for deans what positive things has he done. Rob horne in the team for so long? an out fo form drew mitchell? a very bland tactical game if he has any tactics at all. The coaches role is to get the best out of his players, look at the brumbies this year full of ‘no name’ players. But i gues considering the fact you are older then some of us you must know better? Listen to phil kearns in the commentary to hear there are a lot of issues and not just the players but they way they are being trained.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:59pm
Post said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:59pm | Report comment
I’m sure everyone is partially at fault. However, Quade seems to have no real problems playing fantastic footy for the Reds. Meanwhile, it is becoming more apparent that Deans’ conservative game plan is ruffling the feathers of many of his players (even the straight shooting, instructions-following Barnes is apparently not following the game plan). Add that to the fact that the ARU seems to be stringing Quade along and may not approve his three year contract with the Reds, I can see that starting to get under your skin.
Also, I never said that you are clearly full of yourself, merely that you are coming across that way. Though you do seem quite defensive while again ironically accusing me of being touchy. Not sure what even qualifies someone as Gen Y, starting to sound like “anyone younger than me” according to many of the folks here as even Holmes at 29 apparently is Gen Y as well (I thought that was Gen X? Who knows).
September 25th 2012 @ 9:59am
WQ said | September 25th 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Golden bull, If you are listening to Phil Kearns then you are in all sorts of trouble.
Your points re Team selections have merit, do you think some of these changes may have come about through injury? Do you think that had all of the form players had been fit they may have been in the squad? Or do you think Robbie Deans is just useless and has no idea?
Post, when did Cooper have his last good game for QLD, I suspect it was in the Super Rugby final 2011. His 2012 form has been ordinary to say the least regardless of whom he has played for!
September 25th 2012 @ 2:53pm
golden bull said | September 25th 2012 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
WQ cooper came back for the reds and they went on a 5 game winning streak with him in the team, if you think none of that was partly due to him I will be amazed, he played some great rugby when he came back! As for the team selection, he is clueless, regardless of injuries, Rob Horne would have still been in the team, as would have drew mitchell the other day
September 24th 2012 @ 7:27am
garth said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Considering who his agent is, I would say this is just posturing and/or setting the stage for Cooper switching to League. Frankly, Aussie rugby could do without him. Still, would League actually want him, based on his performance since the RWC?
September 24th 2012 @ 7:35am
Stephen said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
That if for sure. The same agent as SBW. Both players and the agent know that any publicity is good publicity so they make sure they keep themselves in the press with contract breaches and complaints
September 24th 2012 @ 7:36am
daniel said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:36am | Report comment
If a leauge team pays chris sandow 500k or daniel mortimer 300k I think he will be able to get into a team. NRL is not full of super humans they are mostly just average athletes with a few superstars sprinkled in each team
September 24th 2012 @ 8:09am
M.O.C. said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:09am | Report comment
Agree, Cooper could be a Benji Marshall-type player and hidden on the wing like Scott Prince in Defense. It is a bit easier to hide poor defense in League.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:34am
Indio said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Cooper’s already got a league-player mentality: he might as well cut loose and f-off. He’s done nothing for the Wallabies since before the WC, and he continues to offer nothing.
It’s an unwritten protocol that a current player does not criticise the team or team management: it’s bad form. Copper has clearly demonstrated a “Me!Me!” attitude with his outburst: he’s not bigger than the game. If he wants to go, let him.
You will never hear an All Black say what has been attributed to Cooper. But that, more than anything, probably reveals more about the dysfunction within the ARU.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:59am
GWS said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:59am | Report comment
this isnt about cooper. wb’s were great in 2010. playing great footy. exctiting times with lots of promise. that all ended at rwc and i dont know why. something changed and they have been playing crap footy since then. cooper and deans no longer get on, kb back on the drink and out of shape. the promise has gone. there needs to be a fresh change at the aru to open rugby up to everyone. they cant appeal to the general public if they dont embrace the general public. the potential is still in the wb’s however it seems that everyone is waiting for the change to come.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:35am
Tim B said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
I was with you David until you sai it’s clear some of the senior players are at fault. Can you expand on that? Did one of them get caught doing something to bring the game in to disrepute or making themselves bigger than the team?
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September 24th 2012 @ 6:38pm
Campbell Watts said | September 24th 2012 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
Quade, Kurtley and Diggers having a car accident at 2am mere hours before the WB’s plane departed for SA??
October 2nd 2012 @ 3:21pm
doug said | October 2nd 2012 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
who cares if they smash their cars? I don’t see the relevance of car accidents.
September 24th 2012 @ 7:48am
The Quade complex said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:48am | Report comment
It would be very unlikely that Quade Cooper would make an All Blacks or even the South African squad. He can’t tackle, his kicking is average and worst of all he has brain explosions when he’s under pressure, which then puts all his team mates under pressure. Aussie rugby is not in a decline, it’s in a rebuilding phase. Look at how young the team is. Sooner rather than later they will start clicking and win a lot of the close games that they have been losing.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:48am
Rugby Tragic said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Unlikely? Not a chance! In SA they have Goosen (a superstar in the making – he has it all ), Elton Jantjies, Lambie. In NZ they AB’s have Carter (a superstar already), Barrett (who will overtake Cruden by the end of the year) and Cruden. That is to name a few.
I agree Wallabies are rebuilding, they are no as bad as everyone thinks, it is just that their own expectations at the moment are higher that they can achieve for a variety of reasons.
September 24th 2012 @ 9:04am
Roger said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Both Goosen and Carter are multi-dimensional players. They can run the ball, tackle well, drop kick, kick for possession, goal kick and steer the game. Quade as a 1st 5 only does a couple of those tasks.. and not very well. He spends most of the game hiding out back and can’t catch very well.. then when under pressure to take a tick, he has a brain explosion. It is like comparing Michael Jordan to Shaq. All Shaq could do was dunk the ball as he was a 1 dimensional player. Quade would be better in league playing around big boys that can tackle for him while he hides behind them.
Coaches sometimes put players in for “their name” instead of form. Cooper posed a threat about 15 months ago but hasn’t since. He didn’t even have very good form in Super 15 so I don’t understand why he was put into the starting 15 for the Wallabies.
September 24th 2012 @ 12:44pm
Caesar said | September 24th 2012 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Actually that’s a great comparison. Jordan was the best player of all time, but shaw was top 10 of all time…. At one point you could say that shaq was more dominant than Jordan to the point they changed the rules for him….. Quade might not be carter but he’s bloody good, you moron. Perhaps get to know a little about sport before you comment
September 24th 2012 @ 7:19pm
Snobby Deans said | September 24th 2012 @ 7:19pm | Report comment
Yeah, Roger, how dare you express your opinion and not have researched all the facts when making a point that, on the face of it, most people with a passing knowledge of basketball would understand – you moron!!
For your sake Caesar, I’ll point out that I’m being sarcastic – no one needs the personal attacks, pal. Play the ball, not the man
September 24th 2012 @ 10:35am
Uncle Argyle said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
There is also a bloke called Colin Slade who is no slouch either.
September 24th 2012 @ 10:57am
Rugby Tragic said | September 24th 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Yeap Uncle but Slade tends to be a confidence player who has been injury prone and now been overtaken by Barrett and Cruden in NZ.
Of premier No10′s, after Carter gives it away (I think he is still head and shoulders above anyone else at the moment), I think the challenge, at least in the SH over the next decade will be between Johan Goosen and Beauden Barrett – both of these guys are young (20 and 21 respectively), they can both run, kick with both feet and are courageous in defence to defend the openside channel. I also think Leafiilano can develop as well but until we see him back from his injury and up against an test pack, while I believe he has great potential, I will reserve judgement.
September 24th 2012 @ 12:46pm
moaman said | September 24th 2012 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Pretty sure Barrett (and his coaches) would see tackling as a ‘work-on’ mate.
September 24th 2012 @ 3:35pm
Rugby Tragic said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
Hi moaman, I don’t have a problem with his courage in the tackle area, and sure maybe his technique can be improved but he has size and youth on his side as well a bevy of good coaches to, as you say ‘work on’.
Cruden has bulked up a bit from 2011 but is still lighter than Carter and Barrett, he is also very courageous and has a high tackle count most games.
It will be interesting to watch his development, by the end of the year – I think he is going to be the back up for Carter in 2015 (if he lasts that long) otherwise he might be the first #10 picked for the All Blacks.
September 24th 2012 @ 9:06am
Misha said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Cooper would be no where near the All Black squad..he is Carlos Spenser at his very worst..
September 24th 2012 @ 1:28pm
moaman said | September 24th 2012 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Misha—Your ” he is Carlos Spenser at his very worst..” has me wondering just how Carlos SpenCer was able to fool the All Black selectors for so long? He played 35 Tests for NZ and scored 291 points. Just how BAD was he?
The revisionist bagging of former players irritates the hell out of me! OK the guy threw a pass that was read and intercepted by Mortlock and we all know what happened next. But he was a breath of fresh air and damned entertaining to watch.Even though I was not personally a huge fan of his I get sick of people slagging him off. {Rant over}
September 24th 2012 @ 1:30pm
Mike said | September 24th 2012 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
Well said. All Black jerseys aren’t lightly handed out, especially not 35 times!
September 24th 2012 @ 1:39pm
Misha said | September 24th 2012 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
I meant that when Carlos was good he was very good – when he was bad – thats what Cooper is now
September 24th 2012 @ 3:47pm
moaman said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Fair enough mate-my apol-ogies
September 24th 2012 @ 3:26pm
bluerose said | September 24th 2012 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
Cooper might not even qualify to carry there water bottles
September 24th 2012 @ 9:19pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | September 24th 2012 @ 9:19pm | Report comment
A mate of mine classified him as ‘a poor man’s Carlos Spencer’. I can see it.
September 24th 2012 @ 8:00am
DC of nz said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Oh oh how will Deans handle this outburst?
September 24th 2012 @ 8:03am
Roger said | September 24th 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
I think he has thick skin by now haha