Wallabies defeated, not destroyed by Springboks
By Spiro Zavos, 1 Oct 2012 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Rugby Union, Springboks, The Rugby Championship, wallabies
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Australia's Michael Hooper, left, is challenged by South Africa's Duane Vermeulen, center, during their rugby championship at the Loftus Versfeld stadium in Pretoria, South Africa, Saturday, Sept. 29, 2012. (AP Photo/Themba Hadebe)
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Ernest Hemingway won the Nobel Prize for Literature for the quality of his writing and his dominant theme about the invincibility of the human spirit which was summed up in the aphorism: Man can be defeated but not destroyed.
This was my feeling about the Wallabies after watching their brave effort in holding a rampant Springboks side 31-8 and five tries to one.
I know many Roarers will find this approach strange. I understand this.
I was asked about the match by someone who lives nearby when I went out for a walk on Sunday morning. The neighbour suggested to me that the Wallabies were terrible. I asked him him if he’d watched the Test.
He told me he hadn’t. But he’d read accounts of the match and concluded from them that the Wallabies must have been woeful.
I told him to watch the Test. He would see that the scoreline exaggerated the dominance of the Springboks.
Moreover, in the circumstances, with multiple injuries, playing with 14 men (a yellow card and using up the seven substitutes when Tatafu Polota-Nau had to go off) for 20 minutes, at altitude where the Wallabies have won only three Tests (I repeat, won only three Tests since 1933), the Wallabies played out the Test to its final moments and never capitulated.
In 1997, for instance, the Wallabies conceded 40 or so points in the second half against the Springboks at Loftus Versfeld Stadium.
This was a disgraceful effort (or lack of effort). Greg Smith lost his job as Wallaby coach after this disaster, and rightly so.
But Sunday’s Test at Loftus Versfeld was not in this sort of category. The Wallabies were beaten 31-8 and by five tries to one and endured all sorts of injuries throughout the Test to key players.
Some hours later at La Plata, the Pumas were defeated 54-13 and by seven tries to two and did not lose any of their key players during the Test to injuries.
The half-time score in the Pumas – All Blacks Test was 32-8, a worse result for the Pumas playing at home than the 31-8 scoreline at the end of the Springboks – Wallabies Test, which was played in South Africa.
The All Blacks deservedly have been praised for their masterful play against the Pumas. And I believe that before the boot is put into the Wallabies, credit should be given to the Springboks for their enterprising and often deadly attacking play.
In my opinion, this team, with six starting plays aged 22 or under, revealed the real genius of South African rugby. Big, robust, physical, relentless and ball-winning forwards and backs, especially the quicksilver Bryan Habana, with speed and an appetite to score tries and make breaks.
Getting rid of Morne Steyn, with his hands of lead, is the key to the Springboks revival. The youngster, Johan Goosen, is the first Springboks flyhalf since Henry Honnibal to have quick hands, quick feet and a quick mind.
With Goosen leading the way, the Springboks played the ensemble rugby that has really eluded them since the glory days of the late 1990s when, under coach Nick Mallet, they won 17 consecutive Tests.
Even before injuries started to deplete the ranks of the Wallabies, there were some instances of old habits for them dying hard. And in this sense, the Wallabies remain their own worst enemies. The first three kicks by Berrick Barnes, for instance, were terrible, either coming off the side of his boot or giving away possession too easily to the Springboks.
It took the Springboks nearly 20 minutes before they scored their first try, and this was achieved while Digby Ioane was lying injured and out of play. The half-time score was 14-3, eminently gettable for the Wallabies provided they had the players on the field who could lead the charge down. But in just about the last play of the half, Adam Ashley-Cooper knocked himself unconscious in stopping Zane Kirchner from scoring a try.
Andrew Slack, a great Wallaby captain and now an insightful commentator on the game, took John O’Neill to task earlier in the week for making the point that the Wallabies have virtually another XV off the park out injured.
In my opinion, no team, not even the All Blacks with their great depth, could be consistently competitive, especially away from home, with players of the calibre of James Horwill, David Pocock, Will Genia, Stephen Moore, James O’Connor, Drew Mitchell, Scott Higginbotham and, dare we mention his name, Quade Cooper (perhaps not, in light of last week’s nonsense), all unavailable to play for the Wallabies.
And now going into a difficult second half with the Springboks playing strongly and expansively and on a ground where the Wallabies have never defeated the Springboks (South Africa’s Eden Park), the Wallabies had lost their best defensive back.
One of the marks of the Wallabies this season, and it is the mark of a gutsy team, has been their ability to come back from being behind at half-time to win the Test. What has to be understood here is that over 90 per cent of the time in big matches the team that leads at half-time will win. So to turn a game around like this takes a lot of heart.
The Wallabies did not do this against the Springboks. But what they did do was keep the Springboks to recording only three tries in the second half.
To my mind, given all the tribulations they were facing and the form and intent of the Springboks, this was a courageous result for the Wallabies. It showed that they are a team of character.
Early on in the second half, in fact, they took the game to the Springboks and only a mistake by Nick Phipps, the concession of a silly penalty by Polota-Nau and then the yellow carding of Slipper provided the context for the Springboks to score a driving try.
The Wallabies then made things more difficult for themselves by refusing to take kicks at goal which would have given them some needed points and kept them within a couple of scores of the Springboks.
Bryan Habana scored a fabulous try from a quick throw-in made by himself and then backing up to race away. This effort showed the intent of the Springboks. And the ability they have with their backs when they are allowed to play running rugby.
Robbie Deans saw some solace in the Test from the play of Kurtley Beale at flyhalf, “I thought Kurtley was outstanding… he was able to create some momentum for us on oaccasion.”
To my mind, this was a correct assessment. He also defended his channel well, which raises the issue of how well Cooper would have done under similar circumstances. My guess is that he would have gone missing on defence as he invariably does.
The All Blacks have won the inaugural Rugby Championship, as they did with the inaugural Tri Nations back in 1996. They play the Springboks at Soweto next weekend, a Test that will put a marker on where the Springboks are right now, especially.
Can they or will they continue with their running game against an All Blacks side that has improved, in my view, on the quality of the 2011 team which won the Rugby World Cup tournament?
Both the Wallabies and the Pumas, for their part, have to do the hardest thing in sport and that is to come back with a brave heart and strong spirits after being defeated handsomely. Character is formed and expressed in hard times rather than in easy ones.
Both teams need a win to save their seasons. The Pumas have the advantage, at least, of playing at home, although this proved to be no advantage against the All Blacks.
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
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October 1st 2012 @ 6:48am
Clive said | October 1st 2012 @ 6:48am | Report comment
The young guys will have learnt a lot from this years tests. Look at Clive Woodward, he took a hopeless mob of English players downunder and were hammered by the All Blacks. He rebuilt and went onto win the World Cup..
October 1st 2012 @ 9:10am
Ben.S said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Woodward took a 3rd string side on tour. Further, he wasn’t 5 years into his job…
October 1st 2012 @ 8:23pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
It wouldn’t have made any difference if he had been 5 years into his job. A 3rd string side is a 3rd string side .
October 1st 2012 @ 8:43pm
Ben.S said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:43pm | Report comment
If the suggestion is that Deans can rebuild and win a WC then clearly he isn’t doing that job particularly well.
October 1st 2012 @ 8:47pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
Maybe not, and we can argue till the cows come home about how much blame to allocate to the coach and other factors.
But all kudos to Sir Clive – many coaches would have been crushed by the (unfair) criticism he copped after failing to win the 1999 RWC, but he kept faith with the team and soldiered on.
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:42am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:42am | Report comment
I don’t think he did cop any unfair criticism. He went into the WC with no idea who his starting 10 would be or what the best midfield combination was, and that dilemma played out during the tournament. England were comprehensively beaten by NZ and then routed by SA.
In any case, he had only been in charge of England for a short period at that juncture. Deans has had 5 years and this is the most dysfunctional Wallaby sides I have seen. As an England fan I hope he keeps his job, frankly, but as a neutral I hope he goes because I’m bored of watching such dross.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:10pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
I would agree that a new coach cant really make a huge difference right now. He wont have much to pick from either. But Deans clearly has lost control of the team, and for that reason alone – a new coach is needed.
October 1st 2012 @ 6:51am
Big Mac said | October 1st 2012 @ 6:51am | Report comment
It is dissapointing that you are justifying this performance and to say that the Wallabies weren’t (a) as bad as Greg Smith’s team and (b) the Pumas against the ABs is quite a poor justification.
The Wallabies were pathetic and embarrasing. The Pumas were playing against what may be looked back on as one of the all time great teams. The team the ABs put out would have blown their world cup winning team off the park. The Springboks were an average team and came within 3cm of putting 50 points on it – 1cm for each correctly denied try by the TMO. All decisions were right, but that doesn’t change the fact the Wallabies were dominated by one of the weakest Springboks teams in a decade.
I hope it doesn’t happen, but I think there is every chance the Wallabies will get rolled in Rosario, and if a 2 and 4 record (which easily could be 0 and 6) isn’t enough to see the end of Deans, I don’t know what is. JON should also consider falling on his sword.
October 1st 2012 @ 6:53am
biltongbek said | October 1st 2012 @ 6:53am | Report comment
Spiro it is difficult to know whether you are actually complimenting the Springboks or not. For every compliment there is a slight of some criticism or justification why a try was scored.
Anyway, the Boks played with a new pivot, left three tries just short and scored another five. it took a teary eyed Goosen twnety minutes to get into his rythm, the other rookie Taute had his nervous moments as well.
It isn’t the result or the five tries that matters as much as the willingness and effectiveness of Goosen to inject himself into the attack.
He is by no means the finished article, but to once again have a flyhalf who wants his team to score tries is a very pleasant feeling, and to think there is still the back up of equally talented Jantjies and Lambie.
For the first time in years we had a pivot standing flat, attacking the gainline and showing the ability to see opportunities and break the defensive lines.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:36am
peterlala said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:36am | Report comment
biltongbek, Johan Goosen made a big difference.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:40am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
Goosen will get better
October 1st 2012 @ 11:10am
Elisha Pearce said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Agreed, Goosen will improve. He underplayed his hand and is still finding his place. Early passes into space were the best thing for the SA team provided by Goosen. And then added to that 3 or so great little runs that keeps the opposition guessing. That’s something you haven’t had in a long time.
On the topic of the article:
“I told him to watch the Test and he would see that the scoreline exaggerated the dominance of the Springboks.”
I can’t disagree more with that statement. I think South Africa played us further off the part than the scoreline suggested. 3 more times they were over the tryline and it was called back. I’d have given a try to Goosen (in rugby you’re meant to play the ball after you’ve been tackled, you can play it over the line), De Jong (I think it was him who finished off the long range try, the ref didn’t even go upstairs) and it took AAC knocking himself out to stop another. Add just two of those tries to the scoreline and the other 3-4 penalties we gave away but they didn’t kick over, that starts to get really ugly.
We were comprehensively outplayed by South Africa. Even while our starters were out there.
Spiro, you’ve gotta mention the TPN/Robinson substitution debacle properly. We were down a man at the end because our professional, starting prop of our national rugby team has to be substituted early to have a break and come back on later, thereby using up two substitutions. It is a shame on our team that is the case.
October 1st 2012 @ 12:51pm
Piet said | October 1st 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Sadly you’re right. How the Wallabies have got away with “strategic” substitutions beats me. But this time it came back to bite them, and frankly it was a disgrace.
October 1st 2012 @ 6:38pm
postmatchkebab said | October 1st 2012 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
Biltong, I’m happy for the boks. This had to come. SA have always had the depth to play a COMPLETE game led by a 10 who can kick & take it to the line with either guile or crashball. Culturally I’m not sure why it took so long since Honiball to find one? do they coach the ‘instinct’ out of the young 10s in SA or is the power of the boot on the veldt such a strong touchstone that noone dares tamper with the formula? Only dissapointment is I wont be able to rag Suzy in the surf about the boks incomplete game despite their national depth
October 1st 2012 @ 6:52pm
biltongbek said | October 1st 2012 @ 6:52pm | Report comment
Mate, I cannot tell you why. There are naturally talented kids all ver the place, yet the higher up you go the more conservative the coaches become.
When you look at the currie Cup you don’t see this needless kickng, you see backs running, offloading, entertaining, then at super rugby a guy like Naka Drotske encourages his players to play attacking rugby with ball in hand, Plumtree plays a more balanced approach between forwards and backs, utilising their forward power and yet spread it wide, the Lions are playing a good brand of ball in hand rugby, and then you get to the Stormers and Bulls.
The problem is coaches at international level look at their success and believe they must go that route with the Boks, but what they are not considering is that it is the omeny that buys the best players that ultimately makes the biggest difference.
The inequality of finances even in super rugby is such that the Lions and Cheetahs can’t hold onto their top players.
And then the whole cycle repeats itself.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:04pm
chris said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
I have theory that South African teams from school, through club to representative rugby, are guilty of selecting their best athletes in the centers and loose-forwards and then using the flyhalf as simple link or kicker. The thing that Goosen, and to lesser extent Lambie, have in common with Carter is that they are dangerous runners in their own right, which has a knock-on effect of creating far more space for guys on their outside.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:46pm
Suzy Poison said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
I kind of agree and disagree with Spiro at the same time. I disagree in that I think the scoreline flattered the Wallabies, considering the Boks butchered another three tries and missed about 14points in kicks. I agree in that, it’s not quite the train smash people are making out. Remember the Boks losing 49-0, that was a train smash, yet one year on, the Boks won the World Cup.
Like you said, Postmatchekebab, if the Boks couldn’t win against a very injured depleted weak Aussie side on the highveld, then they are really terrible. The Boks should have beaten a full strength Wallaby side on the highveld. Yet a full strength Wallaby team, would have challenged this young Bok team, so they aren’t that good yet. All up it was a predictable result. Perhaps the 5 tries make it seem worse than what was expected, but when you down to 14 men for 20min, it’s hard to defend.
But you can debate the result all day long, the main thing is the Boks are building, the Wallabies had about 50more caps than them on Saturday night. They have a new coach and a pretty new team, there is a hunger and energy in this team.
I don’t see that same hunger or energy in the Wallabies who are relying on 35yr old vets like Samo and Sharpie, mainly because there is no one else left standing.
Solution ….Deans has to go, regardless of Quade’s rants, I hear he has lost the respect of the team he is coaching. This from a very good source, inside the playing group.
October 1st 2012 @ 8:49pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
I was impressed with Ruan Pienaar’s performance. Taking the kicking off Goosen was a smart idea, one less thing for him to think about, and Pienaar was very composed under pressure.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:48pm
Suzy Poison said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:48pm | Report comment
Goosen was injured during the week, hence, he handed over kicking to Ruan (who still missed heaps of kicks) But yes Pienaar played much better, than when he plays with Steyn.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:15pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
Has Spiro ever made a genuine compliment towards the Boks ? I doubt it.
Boks will need to step up another gear this weekend, and even if they do lose, I think by the EOYT we will
have had enough time to gel better. This team was new, the combinations were not settled, many factors to consider.
NZ also put in a fair amount of new boys, but they are masters at fluidity, because everyone plays the NZ way.
All their teams play a similar game, the game plan is not really reliant on any specific players, whoever goes out,
the next man that comes in picks up right there and continues.
SA, differ allot in that respect. We have tried to play the 10 man game, but we couldnt maintain it when Fourie du Preez left.
We also lost our set piece dominance when Bakkies and Victor left.
Point here being, We can and will challenge NZ by next year…. maybe this weekend is still a bit soon for us,
but if we do pull off a win – i think it will signal that SA are going to be dominant next year,
and that NZ are gong to be forced to really up their game as well.
If this happens, There is not other country that will come close to these two for the next year at least.
October 1st 2012 @ 6:55am
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 6:55am | Report comment
Perhaps your neighbour could have asked if the Springboks were rampant how the scoreline could exaggerate their dominance? Or perhaps the Springboks weren’t really so rampant and the Australian performance not quite as gutsy as you’re making out.
October 1st 2012 @ 8:12am
Nobody said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:12am | Report comment
Next week’s games should shed a little light on this
October 1st 2012 @ 7:07am
Riccardo said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:07am | Report comment
Jeez Spiro.
I’m a fan of your articles generally but this reads like a Deans apology piece.
The truth of the matter is that while the Wallabies may have indeed been valiant, they were smashed at the breakdown. Just like the All Blacks were for at least 60 minutes a few weeks ago. Who does the analysis and planning? Genuine question because the Wallabies should have had plans in place.
How can it be that an International Coach leaves himself in the position Deans was where he had to finish the match with 14 men? I understand the critical injury count but still. This is International Rugby; he’s not doing this by himself.
Credit to the Springboks IMO. They were a different team with the Goose calling the shots and will continue to get better with him at pivot. That back row is awesome and the inestimable Brussow may not get a look in with Francois Louw playing out of his skin.
I hope the All Blacks have been analysing & planning for Soweto because these three will definitely continue to bring it and with Goosen involving the backline in the game they are going to be hard to beat.
Finally, a mesage for KPM. Did you watch the All Blacks? What did you make of Cory Jane’s performance? A mark out of 10 please.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:21am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:21am | Report comment
riccardo – really? dont ask KPM ask me. KPM’ll just point out that conradSmith had a quiet game.
jane played awesome the whole night. his try where he fended that lock off 3 times was sublime. i think jane missed one high ball. and got stopped with no yards gaine once. rest of his game style.
joc vs jane, no contest, janes a way better winger.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:29am
kingplaymaker said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:29am | Report comment
Riccardo and mania I actually have yet to watch NZ/Argentina but will over the next three or four hours and will give you an honest answer as judging by the scoreline it must have been very hard for Smith and Jane to make an impression
October 1st 2012 @ 7:31am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
KPM – i look forward to your dissemination.
ps jane, savea, mccaw and read were awesome.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:32am
kingplaymaker said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
mania Mccaw always plays amazingly, in fact perfectly and anyone who criticises him in any way should be imprisoned.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:33am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:33am | Report comment
and their names forever removed from the annals of history
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:19pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:19pm | Report comment
Richie is a legend of the game, I rate him along with Victor Matfield as the most dominant players of our era. There have been brilliant players in between, but to me Matfield and McCaw were consistenly great, and very influental in every game they played.
I dont know if Richie is going to be able to maintain it until 2015, as a forward the body takes a beating.
But as a lover of Rugby, i hope he does. I want to play against the best.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:33am
Riccardo said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:33am | Report comment
Morning Mania,
Jane’s fend would have to be one of the best I have seen. Not only does he plant the chaser beautifully, but deceiving him by “dummying” the fend too. The extra drive he gets from a well placed fend is obvious too.
Jane’s kick-chase receive was outstanding and an example that that game works well when executed correctly.
While the Pumas had one of their quieter games the All Blacks looked much better in La Plata. Carter’s return brought balance and composure. Read was outstanding again. Richie is just… well, Richie. Thought Messam was great too. He is getting better and better on the blindside and repayng the faith; would prefer he didn’t kick tho.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:38am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:38am | Report comment
agree riccardo – used well the fend should take all the momentum away from tackler and transfer it to the ball carrier. thats what jane does so well. each fend subsequently slowed down the lock and kept janes speed up
messam played awesome but that kick has either gotta go or he needs to actually practise it at training first.
carter is in a world of his own. cruden is awesome and becoming an intelligent world class 1st5. carter however is like neo in the matrix and seems to be going at slow motion but then ghosting thru gap or moving the ball with accuarcy and purpose.
puma’s just didnt have the gas to stay competitive. they need to join super rugby asap.
October 1st 2012 @ 4:30pm
sesenta y cuatro said | October 1st 2012 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
Mania, yours is the best explanation I have found of what Carter does when the team is attacking. No one has spoken my mind with more accuracy.
However, there is also the defensive factor (something we tend to forget) as Carter not only tackles like a possessed (while having a very Conrad Smith – like technique) but he also is a great organizer. In this regard, I see no one at his level except perhaps Jonny Wilkinson.
October 1st 2012 @ 5:23pm
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 5:23pm | Report comment
Love the description of carter being like neo, that is exactly how I used to feel about steve larkham when he was it his peak. Its like they work on a different measurement of time to mere mortals.
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:28am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:28am | Report comment
i’m sure einstein could’ve proved relativity of the space time continuum based on the temporal zone immediately surrounding carter and larkham
agree sesenta – carter tackles like a demon. the only player that i have ever seen stop christianCullen over the line
October 1st 2012 @ 7:44am
brooke48 said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
mania,ill ask you about IOANE;watched his inept performance as he was totally bemused on defence and looked like he didnt know where he was;not surprised he”got”injured. no wonder the reds say he cant play centre cos he cant read defence.he totally goes missing when its decision time.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:49am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
wow easy on brooke48, i agree that ioane looked inept in that game and was totally out gunned by habana from kick off. but saying that its seldom that ioane ever has a game that bad. and when ioane wasnt going head to head with habana he looked good breaking tackles thru other boks players.
i reckon he might’ve been carrying his injury for a bit longer hence habana owning him at every encounter.
but ioane is class and heart. no wb plays harder than digby and like i said its rare that ioane plays that badly
October 1st 2012 @ 9:56pm
Suzy Poison said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:56pm | Report comment
Habana and Cory Jane are the two best wingers this season. Last season Habana was nowhere and Digby was the best. Digby will be back, he definately seems to hang of Quade, they have that knack of finding each other on attack.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:02pm
biltongbek said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
a shame JP Pietersen is injured, before his injury he was the form wing in the SH.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:00pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:00pm | Report comment
Blinder of a game from Habana, beautiful to watch some of his improvisations.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:02pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
I think the guy has been taking some personal flack back home… Heard a rumour that his wife was doing some walkies…
October 1st 2012 @ 7:18am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:18am | Report comment
habana is the man
goosen hopefully will get better as time goes on. this season should be considered his feeling out period
beale played awesome. he’s totally redeemed himself in my eyes. his attacking was awesome. kicks were deft and his desire to attack was the back bone of the wb’s spirit. beale never gave up.
radike played out of his skin but the guys (old) body just isnt up for test rugy anymore.
hooper played well but just needs a fraction more accuracy.
hopefully deans will stop exploiting the loophole that had him take robinson off at the 30min mark and then bring him back on.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:32am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
ps – sharpe is still the set piece king. he will be sorely missed when he retires
October 1st 2012 @ 7:37am
formeropenside said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:37am | Report comment
lineouts, not scrums
October 1st 2012 @ 7:40am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
FOS – all set pieces. u cant blame sharpe for the scrums when you have alexnader, robinson and slipper in the front row
October 1st 2012 @ 9:59pm
Suzy Poison said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
Mania, Etzebeth actually won two lineouts off the Wallaby throw. It;s one all between Sharpie and him now.
Sharpie got under his skin, in Perth, but the pupil schooled the master this weekend.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:03pm
biltongbek said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:03pm | Report comment
True, I saw early in the game, Sharpe tried to get on his nerves again, but this time Etzebeth paid no heed.
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:33am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:33am | Report comment
Etzebeth i’m beginning to really like. a few of these boks forwards are quietly achieving and i like that in a player. Etzebeth after his brain explosion is showing a lot of calm to absord sharpes sledging and just get on with it. sharpe definately would’ve had the mental edge going into this game and Etzebeth just negated it
suzy & biltongbek -sharpe is still the man in oz rugby tho. its all right for u guys u have locks coming out of your ears
October 2nd 2012 @ 2:06pm
Suzy Poison said | October 2nd 2012 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Mania, there is a picture in one of the New Zealand online papers. It has Etzebeth manhandling Ben Alexander. He is picking him up and throwing him onto the ground. I know this sounds politically incorrect, but it looks like Etzebeth is at a dwarf throwing competition? Etzebeth is a monster. 6’8′ and 20years old he will be around for a long time. He is the new Bakkies 2.0, but he still has a Y Gen haircut, not like the the no frills farmer look of Bakkies or Brad Thorn. I also saw Eben drill Sharpie into the turf a few times as well.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:04pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
Not to mention the viscious tackles that Etzebeth put in on Sharpe… I noticed him fling Sharpe backwards in one tackle. That kid has serious power, its just a matter of time before the world realizes it.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:03am
sittingbison said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
That exploitation of the loophole directlyed to the interchange fiasco, playing 14 men for last 10 mins, uncontested scrums and not replacing a genuinely injured player.
In professional sport, a disgrace.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:20am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:20am | Report comment
sittingbison – deans has been getting away with it for 3 seasons now. chickens came home to roost on this one. i bet he wont be doing it again and robinson’s just going to have to play for 50-60 minutes
October 1st 2012 @ 7:20am
hog said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Interesting article by Chris Rattue in the NZ herald today, maybe Deans has to go but to blame him for Aus rugby’s issues will achieve nothing.
Jon O’Neill has to accept the blame he is in charge, and since he has been in charge for the second time his only strategic plan for aus rugby is for the Wallabies to win, aus rugby needs someone with vision and now.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:35am
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
When Chris Rattue thinks Deans should be fired you know Robbie has sunk to the bottom, but let’s face it, he’s failed to achieve every objective he’s been set:
Raise the Wallabies overall winning percentage to 75% — failed
Win back the Bledisloe Cup — failed
Win the World Cup — failed
Become the No.1 team in the world — failed
Time to set new objectives, I guess…
Make opposition’s dominance look exaggerated on the scoreboard — success
Attempt an 8th substitution — success
Drop a place to No.3 — success
October 1st 2012 @ 7:46am
biltongbek said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:46am | Report comment
I don’t think they are 3rd yet mate.
October 1st 2012 @ 8:05am
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:05am | Report comment
They will be when the rankings are updated.
Refer to this article — http://www.irb.com/rankings/news/newsid=2063677.html#springboks+four+spot+line
October 1st 2012 @ 2:11pm
soapit said | October 1st 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
when do they update this? they say SA could have dropped below france and england if they lost but no mention of a worst case for how low aus can go.
they are a massive joke though. if we’d won be’d only be a whisker off nz at no 1 apparently.
October 1st 2012 @ 2:21pm
Jerry said | October 1st 2012 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
From that article:
“While defeat could prove costly for South Africa, a victory by more than 15 points will see them climb above Australia into second place”
October 1st 2012 @ 8:09pm
soapit said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
so that says where SA would end up but not AUS.
appreciate the help but doesnt really answer anything i’ve asked unfortunately
October 1st 2012 @ 9:33pm
Jerry said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:33pm | Report comment
They’ve released the rankings – Aus are 3rd.
Well – you have to assume they are, the rankings mysteriously jump from 2 to 4 and Aus aren’t listed, so either Australia have been suspended from all rugby and 3rd place on the rankings has been retired or they’re now 3rd.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:56pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:56pm | Report comment
I’ve just logged on to it and it shows Australia 3rd.
I expect they will be there for a while, whatever happens: even if SA lose to New Zealand, that won’t bring them down much, and an Australian win against Pumas won’t give them much of a boost. And of course a Bokke win or a WB loss…
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:16am
soapit said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:16am | Report comment
and i wonder where we’ll be if we lose to arg?
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:31am
Kane said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
You can’t drop lower than you are if you lose how ever if NZ beat SA by 16 then a draw with Argentina will put you back in 2nd spot. If NZ beat SA by 15 or less then you just need a win to take back 2nd spot. A loss by you or a win by SA means you will stay where you are at the moment
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:25pm
soapit said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
cheers, fairly befuddling. if would have thought SA would be classed as having a better seaon than us looking at the margins
October 1st 2012 @ 4:38pm
sesenta y cuatro said | October 1st 2012 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
Some things you should not forget:
Win the Tri Nations for the first time in 10 years: Success
Win in SA at altitude for the first time in 40 years; Success
Better the previous World Cup result: Success
Better the IRB rankings the team had when he was appointed: Success
Develop a new generation of players after the likes of George Gregan, George Smith, Chris Latham, Stephen Larkham, Stirling Mortlock quit: Success
And first and foremost: When do you exactly recall Chris Rattue had any type of allegiance except to himself?
October 1st 2012 @ 8:48pm
Ben.S said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:48pm | Report comment
Tbh, it’s pretty easy to find flaws in all of those ‘achievements’.
* The 2011 3N was played out with second string sides in some matches, clearly devaluing the currency of the tournament.
* Bettering the previous WC was hardly much to shout about. Losing a pool game to a NH side was pretty poor, and the loss to NZ in the SF was brutal. It was a poor tournament for Australia, and coming 3rd doesn’t alter that fact.
* Australia moved up the IRB rankings before Deans had even coached a game.
* It’s highly debatable that Deans has developed anybody. Most of his changes only came about due to necessity rather than intelligent long-term planning.
October 1st 2012 @ 8:53pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
Yes, “it’s pretty easy to find flaws in all of those ‘achievements’” if you are a one-eyed Deans-hater, and guess what? Nothing new here.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:13pm
sesenta y cuatro said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:13pm | Report comment
There is one thing you are not seeing:
Deans is the coach who had faith in youngsters like Ioane, O´Connor, Simmons, Cooper, McCabe, Pocock, Fainga’a, Genia, Alexander, Timani… and gave them test time.
You say that´s been out of necessity. I say it shows faith in them.
A South African coach would have called from senior players playing in Japan or Europe, instead.
And speaking of flaws: To my understanding it is very cruel that the so-called journalist Rattue puts the weight of 10 years without Bledisloe upn Deans back. He´s been in charge for 4 years and a half and he´s all of a sudden accountable for 10 years of drought?
Oh, c’mon! Who´s flawed?
October 1st 2012 @ 9:29pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:29pm | Report comment
Sesenta, good points. There was a time when Australia didn’t win the Bledisloe Cup for 28 years straight (back in 50s, 60s and 70s)! The fact that neither Deans nor his predecessor Conolly could win it is pretty minor by comparison.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:06pm
biltongbek said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
Meyer did try. He wanted Bakkies, Victor and Fourie du Preez, he also called on Jaque Fourie, fortunately they all declined, so now we have Pienaar (could do better than that), Etzebeth, Juandre Kruger and Jaco Taute.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:45pm
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:45pm | Report comment
The Bledisloe Cup was only contested 12 times between 1951 and 1978. The All Blacks didn’t even know what it was til they lost it in ’79. Deans is the worst Wallabies coach in Bledisloe Cup history.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:55pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:55pm | Report comment
As you will see by this response, OJ lacks all objectivity on this issue. He even denigrates the Bledisloe. His comments are not worth worrying about.
October 1st 2012 @ 11:04pm
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:04pm | Report comment
The All Blacks didn’t know what the Bledisloe Cup was until they lost it in 1979, hence the modern Bledisloe Cup rivalry was born. That’s a fact, Mike. Y’know, those things you fail to come up with in defense of Deans.
October 1st 2012 @ 11:36pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:36pm | Report comment
Okay, happy to talk about a different topic but I still don’t entirely agree with you on this either – the All Blacks knew very well what the Bledisloe was prior to 1979, its just that prior to then they didn’t take Australia very seriously as an opponent, as compared to the Boks and England. According to allblacks.com, “Many believe that this [1979] was the beginning of a Wallabies emergence as a genuine world power.”
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:32am
ohtani's jacket said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:32am | Report comment
Maybe it’s rugby folklore, but nobody knew what the Bledisloe was until the Wallabies did a victory lap with it around the SCG. Stu Wilson loves telling this story on every Bledisloe documentary. Obviously, someone in the NZRU knew what it was otherwise they wouldn’t have put it up in a one-off test, but that’s the legend of how the BC rivalry began.
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:50am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:50am | Report comment
‘Deans is the coach who had faith in youngsters like Ioane, O´Connor, Simmons, Cooper, McCabe, Pocock, Fainga’a, Genia, Alexander, Timani… and gave them test time.’
Right, Ioane – fair enough, but he was hardly a Deans discovery. He was capped by Connolly and is clearly the most dangerous runner in the Australian game.
O’Connor – yes, Deans persisted with him, but chucking him in at 15 against NZ was an utter disaster. Some players don’t recover from such shaky debuts for years.
Simmons – the bench player who is one of the worst locks in Test rugby? Is that why Sharpe’s retirement has been put off?
Cooper – Really? To an extent. How long did Deans persist with Giteau?
McCabe – yes, but changing your midfield just before the WC at the end of a 4 year plan is hardly signs of a forward thinking coach. In any case, there is huge debate as to his value.
Pocock – yes, but again how could Deans ignore him?
Fainga’a – enough said.
Genia – Genia was only given a game when Burgess’s passing became detrimental to the side.
Alexander – capped before he gained a Super cap. Not sure if this marks Deans out as a selectorial genius.
Timani – how many Tests has he started? Bit early in his career to start this, especially given the absence of Horwill.
What does a SA coach have to do with anything?
–
Mike, instead of doing your usual angry rant why don’t you actually address the points. Calling people a ‘Deans hater’ isn’t a position of debate.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:14am
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:14am | Report comment
“Right, Ioane – fair enough, but he was hardly a Deans discovery. …”
The rest of this post is just more of the same – you choose to view every selection decision of Deans in as negative a light as possible, because you essentially have only one thought about Australian rugby – everything is Deans fault!
And calling you a “Deans hater” is a simple statement of fact. There is little or no objectivity in your rants.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:27am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Well done. Deans is a good coach because he persevered with Faingaa, Alexander and Simmons… and also the most damaging ball carrier in Australian rugby – Ioane. Give that man a medal!
Look, I don’t even care any longer. The Wallabies are an absolute farce under Deans. As a neutral fan I’m going to stop watching them soon because I’m fed up of seeing the same old tosh. The last time you played Scotland you lost (home and away), the last time you played Ireland you lost, the last time you played England you lost (home and away)… The style of play in the WC was terrible, and there was no evidence of a long-term planning. The Bledisloe is not a contest either. Deans has good records against France, Wales and SA, but with SA looking better you’re no longer near the 2nd best side in the world ATM, and if things don’t change you’re going to cop some more hidings in Europe this November. Poor selections, poor use of the bench, confused media ramblings, no evidence of tactics, miserable looking players and the results to match. That said, at least you’re the 3N champions and the number 2 ranked side in the world… Oh, wait… Enjoy the ride, Mike.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:45am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
I dont understand why u cared in the first place.
I cant remember the last time I have willingly watched an england game that didnt involve the wallabies as I find their play for the most part quite dull, but I have never bothered logging onto an english rugby website to passionately criticise andy roberts, martin johnson or stuart lancaster.
Why would I care its just a game, I support my team and enjoy watching a good game of rugby regardless of whose playing but if the game isnt that enjoyable I just turn it off and find another way to entertain myself.
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:31am
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
No-one has said “Deans is a good coach” (whatever that means). Your quivering rage at Deans possesses you to the extent that you view anyone who queries your one-dimensional posts as a Deans supporter. In essence, you have no comment to make on Aus Rugby except that every problem comes back to Robbie Deans. I only wish it were so, but unfortunately we do have a number of other problems as well.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:13pm
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
It’s called being a rugby fan, Jutsie – you know, the concept that there are other sides out there. But anyway…
–
Well done, Mike. Another good comment.
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:15pm
sesenta y cuatro said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Now, now…
This is going too far.
Me being called an aussie supporter? Me supporting the Wallabies?
They are not my team by any means!!! There is only one colour I support and it´s black.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:21pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:21pm | Report comment
So easy to forget one Bryce Lawrence…
October 1st 2012 @ 9:17pm
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:17pm | Report comment
None of those things were objectives set by John O’Neill. All of them are like kissing your sister.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:45pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:45pm | Report comment
Whats wrong with kissing your sister, Mate.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:25am
peterlala said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:25am | Report comment
Spiro, a dominant aspect of Ernest Hemingway’s writing was that he tried to tell the truth.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:31am
kingplaymaker said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
peterlala I think he actually tried to make his writing truthful in a more abstract, artistic sense and faithful to some ineffable quality of life, rather than precisely telling ‘the truth’. After all, most of what he wrote never happened.
October 1st 2012 @ 11:41am
peterlala said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Sam, I am unecided about Foster. But I will remember your comments when I watch the All Blacks. You are right about the innovative attack, which with the new scrum rules is obviously viable, as the All Blacks — Foster — have shown.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:28am
nickoldschool said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:28am | Report comment
Defeated or destroyed, who cares. The wallabies created very few opportunities of scoring tries while the Boks were close to scoring half a dozen, dominated the breakdown and made metres on every impact.
I agree that they never capitulated as such although one just wonders if these boys are capable of being hungry and angry. And thats the difference between the wallabies and most other top 8 nations; they dont have the killer instinct nor the passion that others have when they put their national jersey on. We see the same at SR level. Its clear to me that many are not THAT proud of representing their country. And at the end of the day, its envy and desperation that makes you win some games.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:31am
Johnno said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
nicololdschool it was embarrassing how badly smashed we were getting at the collision and the break down, was awful to watch. Like men vs boys a lot of the time.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:40am
Red Block said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
Agree Spiro that the Wallabies were brave but if the Boks had taken their chances and kicked their goals we would have seen a 40+ belting.
The most astounding thing is the Wallabies are struggling in attack. The forwards are losing the physical clash at the breakdown and their seems to be no Plan B to counter the opposition tactics, apart from kick it. So the backs see very little quality ball and when they do get it, McCabe or others run hard and straight into a set defensive line and the whole process of being belted at the breakdown begins again.
One definition of stupidity is ‘doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.’
If the Wallabies were improving and using enterprising tactics, even with their 3rd XV, then there could be hope for Deans and co but the players are stagnating in a sea of uncertainty.
October 1st 2012 @ 7:42am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 7:42am | Report comment
harsh redBlock – he players are stagnating in a sea of injuries
theres nothing wrong with the wb’s heart and you cant coach that or get it from the gym.
October 1st 2012 @ 11:19am
Elisha Pearce said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:19am | Report comment
I thought the Wallabies showed heart too Mania. You could see that towards the end. No heads hanging or slowing down. As soon as South Africa took 2% break in effort we scored a try and started moving the ball. That shows that we were hanging in there and as soon as there was some lax in the opposition we could take advantage.
October 1st 2012 @ 11:22am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:22am | Report comment
elisha – lots of heart. special shout out must go to beale who despite having his team mates go down all around him he kept keeping on. would really like to see beale with a side of non walking wounded. sharpe stepped up as well
October 1st 2012 @ 2:25pm
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Beale’s mate could learn alot from him. Beale was dumped after a poor showing but you didnt see him taking to twitter and whingeing about the team environment or tactics. All he talked about was redemption and repaying the team’s faith in him.