Was Pretoria a baptism or burial for battered Wallabies?
By LeftArmSpinner, 1 Oct 2012 LeftArmSpinner is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Rugby Championship, Rugby Union, Springboks, wallabies
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What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Was the brutal bashing of this young and unlucky Wallabies team by a resurgent Springboks the making of them, or will they be scarred for life?
It was a strong Springboks team, stronger than the one beaten by the Wallabies three weeks ago. They were at home and desperate. They are a different team at home.
The Springboks changes introduced several talented and fearless youngsters, Taute, Goosen and Etzebeth, all 21 years old or younger. Lambie, another youngster, was on the bench.
The Wallabies were severely underpowered with almost 20 starting players missing. Quade Cooper’s bleating was not helpful.
Kurtley Beale was at 10, just a few weeks after the revelation that he has lost his desire and magic, at least for the time being.
Beale had never started at 10 for the Wallabies.
The Wallabies had never won at Pretoria.
From the first Springbok series with the ball, they ran straight and hard. By comparison, the Wallabies first play was a Barnes grubber from inside his own 22-metre line that went generously to Brian Habana, still one of the most potent wingers in world rugby.
In commentary, Phil Kearns correctly called it a rubbish grubber kick. Brainless would be just as accurate.
The previously reliable goal kicker Barnes, pulled his first shot at goal. Even after six minutes, Samo was caught running east west across field.It was all ominous for the Wallabies.
At the 20th minute, with the score at 0-0 and the Wallabies back line continually going across field, they made a critical error in defence. They disappeared.
Barnes was on the short, right hand side of the field with both centres, McCabe and replacement Fainga’a. Habana, Goosen and Kirchner did the rest after some decoy lines in midfield to ‘transfix’ the remnants of Wallabies defence. It took just four phases.
If the Wallabies were to have any chance of winning this game, their previously strong defence would need to remain strong.
Another chip kick, this time by Beale, failed again. A very poor lineout followed and Goosen gassed McCabe on the outside. Goosen was outplaying Beale time after time.
His speed of foot and vision was outstanding and Habana’s workrate was exemplary for any aspiring back three youngster.
By the thirtieth minute, it was 14-0 and on the Wallabies had again spotted their position a potentially match winning lead.
The Springboks had been released form their shackles and they grew in execution levels and confidence. They increased the pace of play and the Wallabies simply could not go with them.
Even when they had the ball, the Wallabies backs lacked communication, structure and directness. Losing McCabe temporarily and Barnes and Adam Ashley-Cooper permanently in the first half did not help.
The Springboks won the breakdown and forced many turnovers. They made 10 line breaks to the Wallabies two. The Wallabies missed 34 tackles to 14 by the Springboks.
There were so many things against this Wallabies team before and during this game that a loss was almost inevitable.
However, I do not understand why Harris, Fainga’a and Shipperley, all Reds teammates, could not manage to catch, draw and pass to make a decent fist of a half break by Beale in the 50th minute.
On the next play, Shipperley took a pass from Beale, complete with some decoy runners, but was picked off and turned the ball over. This is just not acceptable.
Later, he was caught again. Shipperley has gone from a long striding, try scoring Reds player to a hesitant, confused Wallaby.
Dave Dennis gets better with every game for the Wallabies. Phipps pass seemed quicker and flatter than in his debut game. Alexander and Tatafu Polota-Nau tried all night. Hooper is dynamic, but has a very high error rate that negates his good work.
Beale did not work at 10 but he is lighter and faster than in past weeks. There are glimmers of the old Kurtley thankfully re-emerging.
Next week, a backline of principally Reds players will aid cohesion and is their best chance of a win.
Harris should be at 10 next week in Argentina with McCabe and Fainga’a in the centres and Shipperley on the wing with Beale at 15.
Since the Rugby World Cup play off game for third place, I have observed that this team does not lie down. While I wish they would display more cohesion, brains and flair, I cannot fault their tenacity.
Winning close games, winning from behind and great defensive efforts is an emerging pattern for this vintage.
While the Pretoria game had so many unfortunate, unlucky factors, I was encouraged that this team kept playing, albeit it with the Springboks hands around their throats.
When the Springboks eventually relaxed, the Wallabies started to get some continuity and make some yardage.
This young and desperately exposed Wallabies team might just have been inadvertently baptised and galvanised in the process.
If nothing else, next season, there will be plenty of competition for places in what Quade Cooper calls the yellow and I call gold, jersey.
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October 1st 2012 @ 8:02am
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:02am | Report comment
I doubt very much that the loss will have a lasting effect on this Wallabies side. They’re conditioned not to take losses too badly and to learn from them. This Rugby Championship was a write-off before the injuries really became a problem, but Deans and O’Neill will use the injury count to deflect any blame. I do feel for whatever’s left of the Wallabies having to go to Argentina and then that unnecessary fixture against the All Blacks in a few weeks, but they really are a shell of an international side right now and losing under these circumstances is always made acceptable.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:15am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:15am | Report comment
But OJ, do you think that they can emerge stronger from the experience.
I can see a lot more competition for places once the injured players return. This can only be a good thing at this stage of the cycle.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:48am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
agree LOS, but i gotta ask how come these replacement players werent on the radar alot sooner? be good when the injured come back and then a healthy competition for spots will happen.
October 1st 2012 @ 11:54am
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:54am | Report comment
What’s the difference between this losing experience and the others they’ve had this year?
October 1st 2012 @ 3:19pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
Everything OJ, Every experience is unique.
October 1st 2012 @ 3:19pm
Hoy said | October 1st 2012 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
Over the last 5 years, the Wallabies have only been as good as their next game. They don’t learn from wins, and certainly don’t learn from loses. The improvements are reactionary, meaning they target improvements in certain areas, and smarter opposition coaches target other areas which have fallen by the wayside with the Wallabies.
October 1st 2012 @ 3:57pm
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
hoy, this is a baby team and very different in personnel to the previous teams your refer to.
October 1st 2012 @ 4:32pm
Hoy said | October 1st 2012 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
I disagree. The main core is exactly the same as it has been since Deans took over 5 years ago.
October 1st 2012 @ 5:43pm
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
5 years ago team to play first bledisloe:
FB 15 Adam Ashley-Cooper
RW 14 Peter Hynes
OC 13 Ryan Cross
IC 12 Berrick Barnes
LW 11 Lote Tuqiri
FH 10 Matt Giteau
SH 9 Luke Burgess
N8 8 Wycliff Palu
OF 7 George Smith (c)
BF 6 Rocky Elsom
RL 5 Nathan Sharpe
LL 4 James Horwill
TP 3 Al Baxter
HK 2 Stephen Moore
LP 1 Benn Robinson
Replacements:
HK 16 Tatafu Polota-Nau
PR 17 Matt Dunning
LK 18 Daniel Vickerman
N8 19 Phil Waugh
SH 20 Sam Cordingley
FH 21 Timana Tahu
FB 22 Drew Mitchell
Not only was the main core completely different, but of the starting 15 only AAC, barnes, sharpe and robinson were playing on saturday.
October 1st 2012 @ 8:06pm
Hoy said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:06pm | Report comment
Ok Jutsie, you have beaten me with facts. I stand corrected. I used a broad sweeping statement. Perhaps I should have said many players have been there for several years now and I don’t understand how they are playing like they don’t know each other.
AAC, Giteau, Barnes, Burgess, Palu, Elsom, Sharpe, Horwill, Moore, Robinson, TPN, Mitchell were all there last year weren’t they? In the squad at least? Vickerman was as well wasn’t he, later on anyway.
This year, I agee we are down a few from that 2008 team, but still have AAC, Barnes, Sharpe, Horwill, Moore, Robinson, Palu, TPN and Mitchell in the squad. Ioane debuted in 2007, so he has been around a while.
And lets look at some of the “newbies”:
Kepu, Alexander, Pocock, Cooper and JOC debuted late in 2008.
Beale debuted in 2009, after being in the training squad for a while.
Genia was in the squad in 2009.
Higgers was in the squad in 2010,
Now I know we have injuries after the weekend, but we have had a fairly stable squad over the years I think, but you wouldn’t know it how they are playing. In my very humble opinion, I can’t help but think they are actually regressing with ability and skill. I don’t know how that is possible. I am certainly less confident with each game they play these days.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:33pm
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:33pm | Report comment
Look I know I was being a bit of smart ass I admit, but how many of those blokes you have mentioned played on the weekend and played the majority of the game?
Isnt that what the gist of LAS’s post above and article in general is about or am I missing something?
Its fair enough your criticism of deans tenure in general and you could apply your criticism even to the wb’s team that lost the first two bleds but what LAS’s point is (if im not mistaken) is that we shouldnt be too hard on the team that played on saturday as its extreme circumstances that they are facing. Its very hard to build any cohesion, accuracy, implementation of game plans etc when not only have u lost a lot of personell in the build up to the game but u lose a number of them (veteran players at that) during the game.
Hopefully this experience has instilled a lot of character in the younger blokes and has given them motivation.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:13pm
Hoy said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:13pm | Report comment
Jutsie, I was responding to LAS’ thoughts that the Wallabies might learn from this. I agree with OJ in that they have learnt diddly squat from both wins and losses over the last X years. I doubt this one is the one that will make any difference. I hope I am wrong,
October 1st 2012 @ 10:21pm
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
Fair enough, solid point. And I hope your wrong too
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:07am
atlas said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Baby team?
and the opposition were not?
Springboks has 15 in their 22 with less than 20 test caps
Six of them aged 21 or under.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:26am
Jeff said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
The reason for “that unnecessary fixture against the All Blacks ” is that it was added to the programme to ensure the Bledisloe is played for in a 3 test series.However such has been the dominance of the ABs in the last few years the 3rd test has become dead with the Bledisloe already decided.
However I think that the Bledisloe is so important to us and the Kiwis that the 3rd test must be retained to give credibikity to the holder.As it was previously the holder only had to win one test to retain it for another year.
October 1st 2012 @ 11:56am
mania said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
jeff – yes like during the 5 years that aus held during the gregan larkhma era
October 1st 2012 @ 3:16pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
LAS, it really doesn’t matter what the Wallabies do, OJ will always be the same: “the shell of an international side” etc etc. He was saying the same thing when the Wallabies were 50/50 vs the ABs and when we were on our winning streak against the Boks. Nothing positive to say or suggest.
October 1st 2012 @ 5:11pm
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
Hey, it annoys me being right all the time, but they won’t get rid of Deans so I can’t help but get repetitive. Meanwhile you can shift the goal posts some more about how well the Wallabies are doing. Anything to be cheery.
October 1st 2012 @ 5:34pm
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
Did deans steal your GF back in high school or something? Why do you care whether he is or isnt coach of a team you dont support?
October 1st 2012 @ 8:31pm
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:31pm | Report comment
Because we have to play you three times a year. If he was the coach of Wales I wouldn’t care.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:43pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
Which is not an answer, but knowing OJ it is probably all we will ever get!
October 1st 2012 @ 10:22pm
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:22pm | Report comment
However so noble of you. You sir are a true gentlemen!
October 1st 2012 @ 11:01pm
ohtani's jacket said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
I think it’s fairly obvious why a New Zealand fan would be frustrated with the current Wallabies side. Do you really think a rugby fan wants to see such a lopsided contest?
October 1st 2012 @ 11:38pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:38pm | Report comment
Sure, but there are quite a few other kiwis on the Roar with the same motivation, but most aren’t short-sighted enough to think that its due entirely to Deans, or that changing coaches will necessarily fix the problem.
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:27am
ohtani's jacket said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:27am | Report comment
And I’m sure that whoever the next coach is, whether it’s Ewen McKenzie or David Nucifora, you’ll defend the guy like mad. We’ve been through all this a thousand times. I don’t think Deans is going to be fired and I realise he’s having a horrid time with injuries (even if some of it is his poor selecting coming back to bite him in the proverbial), but it is frustrating… because when New Zealanders see this Wallabies side I think they see us from ’98 to ’03 only with no light at the end of the tunnel. Beating Australia was sweet up until a point, but this situation has got to change. Of all the problems people can identify with Australian rugby, the one they always overlook is the the one that really gets me — doing nothing.
This Deans situation is simply foreign to me. People say oh he won the Tri-Nations, but he won it without winning the Bledisloe. That was the hollowest of feelings when NZ did it in 1999 and 2002. And the streak against the Boks — NZ beat the Springboks eight times in a row between 2001 and 2004 and went through three coaches because we couldn’t beat Australia. Can’t understand it.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:19am
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
But “doing nothing” describes you to a T. You only have one thought, that everything is Deans’ fault. You give no consideration to the idea that there might be any other problems faced by Australian rugby – at the mere suggestion you howl them down because thinking about them might somehow interfere with your great crusade to remove this kiwi from coaching Australia.
There are quite a few on the Roar with a nuanced critique of Deans and an understanding that merely changing the coach will make little or no difference in the short term, and no difference at all in the medium, term. You might learn something from them.
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:04pm
ohtani's jacket said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
Well, then you and your two or three little nuanced buddies can sit around enjoying the Wallabies losses while everyone else gives up, because you’re oh so clever. You’re sure getting what you deserve.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:00pm
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:00pm | Report comment
If we follow your ideas, we will get much worse than we deserve.
October 1st 2012 @ 8:04am
biltongbek said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Leftarmspinner, not sure I agree with you, I think Beale played well and should be the regular at ten for the Wallabies.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:36am
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Yes, he looked the most assured of all tens in the green and gold jersey this year despite playing behind a pack that was easily outscored by the opposition. I hope they persist with him and put either morohan or harris at 15.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:19am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Jutsie, monahan is an interesting thought. Phipps, Harris, Monahan, McCabe, Faingaa, Shipperley and Beale. Lots of Reds players. and this combination will be essential and valuable.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:16am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:16am | Report comment
he is getting fitter again, but he is a much better 15 than 10. I am concerned that he has now three times, allowed himself to get overweight.
October 1st 2012 @ 1:36pm
garth said | October 1st 2012 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
Is he turning into the Wallaby version of Piri Weepu?
October 1st 2012 @ 3:18pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
That’s an interesting point, also the comparison to Weepu. I was very impressed with Beale’s performance – its never easy at 10 when your forwards are being monstered, but Beale kept his head. But whether he is who we want there all the time, I don’t know.
October 1st 2012 @ 8:52am
sheek said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:52am | Report comment
Leftie,
They play so many tests these days, that two tests after this they’ll struggle to remember who & where they played, let alone the score…..
And if Quade calls the Wallaby jersey yellow, then the Reds jersey sure as hell ain’t maroon. I despise contrived marketing.
We both started Commerce together at UNSW & I know why I left – I could never be one of those bullsh*t, opportunistic marketeers…..
October 1st 2012 @ 10:24am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Well, I know what you think Sheek. But that is only if you play for Waverley or Easts. We Randwick boys remember every game!!!! Well, more so staggering out of the Randwick rugby club on a saturday night!!!!!!
jokes aside, I think the youngsters will remember these early tests. sheek, the Reds used to have a maroon jersey with a koala on it. hardly a scary beast………… Yea, but those very marketeers are getting their Waterloo. Social media like the roar, has challenged them to reinvent themselves mid career. Ugly……………and very slow to the punch!!!!!!
October 1st 2012 @ 11:13am
sheek said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Leftie – I’ll pay the Easts quip!
October 1st 2012 @ 11:49am
Justin2 said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:49am | Report comment
Ah yeas if only we could go back to the 70s and 80s where only backs could run, forwards couldnt catch and the game was a shambles… gee I miss it.
October 1st 2012 @ 4:25pm
sheek said | October 1st 2012 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
Jusitn,
So do I, so do I, the older I get, the so much better we all were back then…..
October 1st 2012 @ 8:52am
sixo_clock said | October 1st 2012 @ 8:52am | Report comment
The absence of a definitive captain or leadership group to steer the effort was the most apparent shortcoming. This is a perrenial problem as we aussies don’t traditionally respond well to being told what to do. Only when an NFJ-Noddy combo, a hard-working towering ‘Nobody’ take to the field are the Wallabies at their best. There was no cohesion, no direction in that game, admittedly the ‘Boks gave nothing away either. But like my criticism of Stirlo’s captaincy at Suncorp two years ago, when the Rebels did not adjust to the Reds tactics, both of those teams looked rudderless in the face of the onslaught.
The first kick in attack sent the message that the ‘Boks wanted to hear. That we were not going to challenge with the ball in hand and we thought their defence was weak in broken play. Both wrong, and they lifted. How many times did we run upright into the tackle and get smashed, going backwards even, losing momentum and the pill. It was painful to watch. There was no plan to expose their bulk, run around them, tire them, deflate them and give our advantages a chance. Nick had to look for someone who was up for a go, they were milling around instead. Browns bloody cows style.
These players need to have a long hard look at themselves, consider all the people who have tried to help them become reps for this nation and then voluntarily take a pay cut unless they can show up to play.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:31am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Sure, But what an assault it was. The Wallabies got bashed at the breakdown and were simply off the pace. I watched the AFL GF and could not miss the instinctive way that all players played, invariably accurately and at super speed. very hard to defend against. the All Blacks also play at a very high speed, as do their ITM cup colleagues.
Did you see Read run on to that ball against the Pumas to set up Jane’s try. wow. We tend to pause at the back of the ruck, and then expect a forward to get over the gain line from one metre.
As for a plan, I dont think that you can say that here was no plan. It was not implemented. Every team knows how to play the Boks. doing it is another issue and in that form, and with that commitment, it was always going to be difficult.
October 1st 2012 @ 3:20pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Exactly.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:05am
WobbliesFan said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
It wasnt the making of them and they wont be scarred. It was one and only one thing – an example that Aussie Rugby is on life support, with total collaspe imminent.
We need change NOW!!!!!!!
October 1st 2012 @ 10:32am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:32am | Report comment
Wobblies, that is a whole new subject………..We need action, thats for sure.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:05am
Harry said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Good article LAS. As I said eleswhere, while we were cmprehensively beaten, the outcome wasn;t suprising given all the injuries, Fortress Loftus and no refereeing breaks.
Things were reduced to shambles with AAC, Digby and Barnes off.
For next week’s backline – some selection conundrums! My thoughts;
Would keep Kurtley at 10 – he went fairly well and has to build confidence and run the game.
Consider starting Sheehan to provide a combative edge and drive the forwards. Phipps on after 55 mins to provide attacking spark.
Harris or Taps at 12 … would lean towards Tapui for attacking spark, Faingaa at 13, Cumminsto replace Digby, Shipperly, Morahan to debut at 15. Bench Phipps/Sheehan, Harris/Taps, any other fit outside back – Turner?.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:40am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
Harry,
I would have the halves around the other way:
So
9. Phipps
10. Harris
11. Monahan
12. McCabe
13. Faingaa
14. Shipperley
15. Beale
Tapaui is great. I am a fan of his. However, we need McCabe at 12. Cummins goes well, but again, you need experience and, in relatiive terms, Monahan has been around the Wallabies more and knows teh other backs mcuh better. combinations help in a storm like this.
October 1st 2012 @ 12:13pm
Harry said | October 1st 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
I clean forgot about McCabe! Yes he should be 12. Fair enough on the halves, i’d prefer my combination for this test, which will require expereince and coolness. Harris would be our 4th 10 in what the last 5 or so tests, better to keep Beale there.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:28am
Ben.S said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Young and unlucky? Winning from behind… Pretty optimistic there, LAS.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:41am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
they ran both the Pumas and Boks down from behind in previous matches.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:33pm
Ben.S said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:33pm | Report comment
And in both matches they were clear and heavy favourites at the bookies, so surely you should be asking why they had to run these teams down in the first instance? Two poor home wins and two away routings shouldn’t really be inspiring much confidence, should it?
October 1st 2012 @ 10:57pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:57pm | Report comment
As the Boks were heavy favourites in this last match. So what?
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:09am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:09am | Report comment
Righto, when a side is a heavy favourite to win a game it is not that impressive when in both games (like they were against Wales too) they were losing at half-time and only scrambled home late in the game.
The Boks were 2/5 in the last game and were 14-3 up at HT and finished by routing Australia. How is that comparable?
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:46am
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Who said it was comparable?
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:56am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Why mention the game then? I can’t think of a single reason.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:27am
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Because you came up with some bizarre argument based on who was favourite with the bookies in Australia’s matches. I agree, I cannot see the point of it all.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:37am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:37am | Report comment
I really am not sure where you’re going with this? Struggling to win games where you are listed as heavy favourites and expected to win comfortably is not especially impressive. Pretty simple really.
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:50am
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:50am | Report comment
You don’t have to think its impressive, but you don’t think anything the Wallabies do is impressive so who cares?
I don’t confuse coming from behind with dominating other teams, but I agree with LAS that it is a positive point – in the not-so-distant-past our team has been characterised by an inability to come from behind to win, against anyone. Its only one weapon in the armoury of course, but its something we need to have, and good to see that it is there.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:30pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
Mike, i would agree with Ben here, if you start as a clear favorite – and struggle to find a win, in the case of the Boks game – It was the Boks missed kicks that gave the game, rather than the Aussies playing well, then its not impressive.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:38pm
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
IvanN,
Don’t be fooled by Ben.S shifting the goalposts. The idea that someone has said this is “impressive” is entirely in his own mind. Ben.S is extremely good at arguing against straw men!
The original statement by LeftArmSpinner (the writer of the article) was that he was “encouraged” by the Australians’ ability to come from behind, whilst fully acknowledging all the negative points from the last games. That is what Ben.S has been arguing against, but he has somehow converted that into LAS saying that these were “impressive” wins – LAS never wrote anything of the sort.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:46pm
IvanN said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
i see.
the pumas game was probably encouraging. But the Boks not.
Im a fan of the team winning on the park, winning on the scoreboard.
We seem to have the short end of that stick quite often,
then again, it could be said, Wales have played better than us (SA) at times,
yet cant seem to find the win.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:49pm
Mike said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:49pm | Report comment
I agree that your star is on the rise. I don’t know if you will take the win on Saturday, but if not, it will certainly happen next season. All the other first tier nations will need to look out for die Bokke.
But the second tier nations are improving also. Every now and then they take a game off one of the Tier 1s. I expect it will happen more often in the coming years.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:33am
Bazza All Black said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
I do find this article over optimistic at best..
Maybe if this loss was one off…or the way it was lost…
No shame is losing to Boks (prepping for next week…) but it was a hiding and it could have been a lot worse…
What happened to the Aussie’s…they are no longer a team to fear.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:01am
Bee Bee said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Heres what happened.
1. The team have more injuries than Alan Jones’ brain.
2. They are coached by a Kiwi who tries hard but really longs to be back at the Crusaders where things made sense.
3. The team his being twittered to death by an ego-maniac who longs to with his BFF (SBW)
4. The teams nursery is made up of Ultra rich private schools. Hardly a place to develop a thick skin. More a place to develop entitled brats, legal professionals (same thing really.) and Rugby Union Administrators (also same thing.)
5. Only Kevin Rudd circa 2008 had more frequent flyer points than the current Wallabies.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:09am
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Dont entirely agree with this post but love it anyway. Best post of the day lol.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:24am
Jay said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
“4. The teams nursery is made up of Ultra rich private schools. Hardly a place to develop a thick skin. More a place to develop entitled brats, legal professionals (same thing really.) and Rugby Union Administrators (also same thing.)”
Ummm, so how do you explain the successful Wallabies teams of the past? Mostly, if not all private school educated.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:28am
kingplaymaker said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Jay they bought off the opposition before the match started, although since the 2007 crisis they haven’t had enough money to.
October 1st 2012 @ 11:28am
Bee Bee said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:28am | Report comment
When I went to a private school (not ultra rich mind you) they could hit you. Not to mention the horrible other things they did at some private schools. By the way I am not advocating hitting or other horrible things. Any teacher who hits a kid or worse should be in prison. I think private schools are great. If your rich. However, they are exclusive and Wallabies need to be very much inclusive if they are to improve.
October 1st 2012 @ 4:31pm
ceboss said | October 1st 2012 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
public schools havw a wealth of talent n its a shame rugby dont tap into more n expand. the ARL is testiment to it.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:52am
Leo said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
The ARL gets some of its talents from NZ rugby union schools and anyone good enough from superleague. Imagine if the door was open for any Kiwis and rugby players from around the world to play super rugby Australia.
October 1st 2012 @ 12:01pm
Justin2 said | October 1st 2012 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
We have more public school players now than ever before…
October 1st 2012 @ 12:55pm
Bee Bee said | October 1st 2012 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Didn’t know that Justin. Okay, scrap point 4. But I won’t back down on Alan Jones brain. He should stick a chaff bag over his head.
October 1st 2012 @ 4:01pm
ceboss said | October 1st 2012 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
i fin d it hard to believe that we have more private school kids in the wallabies.
October 1st 2012 @ 5:08pm
ceboss said | October 1st 2012 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
sorry i meant to say i find i hard to belive the walabies have more public school kids. which players?
October 2nd 2012 @ 2:46pm
jeznez said | October 2nd 2012 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Ceboss, forwards are split pretty much 50/50 – couldn’t be bothered looking up the backs:
GPS Wallaby forwards:
Benn Robinson – Kings
Stephen Moore – Grammar
James Slipper – Southport
Nathan Sharpe – Southport
James Howill – Brisbane Boys
Jake Schatz – Churchie
David Pocock – Churchie
Scott Higginbotham – Southport
Non-GPS Wallaby forwards:
Sekope Kepu – Wesley College
Tatafu Polota-Nau – South Granville High
Ben Alexander – Knox, Dan Palmer – Kiama
Kane Douglas – Maclean High
Sitaleki Timani – Liahona High and Auckland Grammar
Dave Dennis – Richmond High
Michael Hooper – St Pius X
Wycliff Palu – Balgowlah Boys, Radike Samo – I couldn’t find it but believe it is in Fiji.
October 2nd 2012 @ 3:03pm
Johnno said | October 2nd 2012 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
A lot of cadets in that squad jeznes. A lot of those schools have cadets, so a lot of marching and pipe drums, and cadets works jeznez.
October 3rd 2012 @ 4:22am
mania said | October 3rd 2012 @ 4:22am | Report comment
so basically none of the brown boys went to private school
October 3rd 2012 @ 11:30am
jeznez said | October 3rd 2012 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Mania, that is how it fell out in the forwards – although my split was actually GPS rather than just private.
Not as stark in the backs where Genia, Ioane, Beale and Cooper all attended GPS schools.
October 3rd 2012 @ 11:32am
mania said | October 3rd 2012 @ 11:32am | Report comment
thanx jeznez – so its a forwards thing, but other than genia the others all got scholarships didnt they?
October 3rd 2012 @ 11:36am
jeznez said | October 3rd 2012 @ 11:36am | Report comment
not sure mate – sounds about right.
October 3rd 2012 @ 1:41pm
jeznez said | October 3rd 2012 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
just realised with those forwards another split – the Qld’s are all GPS lads (with the exception of Samo), while the NSW’s are non-GPS (with the exception of Fatcat).
October 1st 2012 @ 10:48am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Bazza, great name, by the way.
My previous articles, now more than 200, have been realistic (and critical) of the wallabies performances when they have had the majority of their players available. But we are now in extenuating circumstances. Not excuses. The team came from behind on two occasions. and they defended well in most games, except the All Blacks. I remove the AB’s games because they are in another league . 54 points in argentina is extraordinary. they are an extraordinary team. no one else in world rugby can come close. simple as that.
So, the Wallabies should consolidate/hang on to 2nd place and then build to beat the AB’s.
The AB’s fear no rugby team in the world at the moment. except daylight!!!!!!
October 1st 2012 @ 11:35am
kingplaymaker said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
LAS in terms of beating the All Blacks I made an ideal team of those injured and fit which obviously reflected my own tastes, but bore almost no resemblance to the team that is current. A fit Wallabies team now would be a completely different beast. Think of the following backline: Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Lealiifano/Sautia, JOC, Tomane/Mitchell, Beale.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:30am
Johnno said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:30am | Report comment
Losses can be a blessing in disguise and losing here was good for the aussies. It puts more heat in the kitchen to JON,Deans, and Nucifora.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:50am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Johnno, I dont agree. it was such a long shot anyway, i dont think that it does. even if they had lost to the Argies in Aust would not have done much.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:58am
LeftArmSpinner said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Here is the team selected for the latest springboks game. I have idetnifed those that would be in the ideal starting team, if every player were fit and availble and in form. three backs (McCabe, Ioane and Beale) and three forwards (Sharp, Alexander and Robinson) would be in the starting team. That is 6 from 15, a meagre 40%.
Berrick Barnes, Bench
Dominic Shipperley, Mitchell
Adam Ashley-Cooper, Bench
Pat McCabe, Yes at 12
Digby Ioane, Yes
Kurtley Beale, Yes, at fullback
Nick Phipps, Bench
Radike Samo, No
Michael Hooper, Bench
Dave Dennis, Bench with Higginbotham at 6
Nathan Sharpe, Yes
Kane Douglas, No, Horwill
Ben Alexander Yes
Tatafu Polota Nau, Bench
Benn Robinson. Yes
Res:
Saia Faingaa, No
James Slipper, Yes
Rob Simmons, No
Scott Higginbotham, see above
Liam Gill, No
Brett Sheehan, No
Anthony Faingaa.No
October 1st 2012 @ 11:23am
Jutsie said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:23am | Report comment
If all the forwards were fit then sharpie wouldn’t be there either as he would have retired after the welsh series and alexander would probably be benched for kepu. But on the other hand I think Deans usually goes with TPN ahead of moore (much to the displeasure of reds and ACT fans lol).
October 1st 2012 @ 11:37am
kingplaymaker said | October 1st 2012 @ 11:37am | Report comment
LAS it may be even worse. Kepu was the best prop in Australia for my money this year and Palmer might have outperformed Robinson and Alexander. Mccabe would have had to fend off Lealiifano, JOC possibly, young Chris Sautia who spent most of the season injured. In fact hardly anyone survives if others were fit.
I would say it could be just 3: Beale, Ioane and Sharpe.
That makes it basically a second XV, if not worse! Perhaps even a composite second/third XV!
October 1st 2012 @ 9:38pm
Ben.S said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
Regardless of which player you think should be starting for Australia all of Robinson, TPN, Sharpe, Dennis, Beale, Ioane, McCabe and AAC are starting players under Deans, with Moore, Genia and Cooper having only just been injured and Alexander, Higginbotham and Barnes long-standing squad players. You’re talking utter fantasy.
October 1st 2012 @ 9:49pm
Mike said | October 1st 2012 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
Ben.S, I agree with your list, but doesn’t that really support KPM’s point? Robinson, TPN, Sharpe, Dennis, Beale, Ioane, McCabe, AAC, Alexander, Higginbotham and Barnes are all first choice players under Deans as you correctly point out, but that is still only 11 out of 22.
Also, although Cooper has only just been injured, he has also only just come back from injury. We haven’t had a specialist fly-half available for most of this year.
October 1st 2012 @ 10:01pm
Ben.S said | October 1st 2012 @ 10:01pm | Report comment
He doesn’t really have a point.Of the current starting 22 he stated that only 3 would be considered starters, which is clearly nonsensical.
Why would you need a specialist fly half? Cooper is the starter and Barnes and Beale can also play 10. I don’t see that as an issue. Deans has never sought a specialist back-up at 10.