Cooper shadow remains, while Beale’s stocks rise
By Brett McKay, 2 Oct 2012 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Rugby Union, wallabies
265 Have your say
Australia's Kurtley Beale, right, makes a catch as South Africa's captain Jean de Villiers, left, defends during their Rugby Championship at the Loftus Versfeld stadium in Pretoria, South Africa. (AP Photo / Themba Hadebe)
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Quade Cooper’s performance on The Rugby Club really threw me last week. Really threw me. My mutterings on Twitter at the time and since probably look like I was giving up on him, and to a degree I probably was.
In all honesty, it’s been a battle in the days since to properly look at the whole situation from all objective angles.
I’m quite sure Cooper is right about many of the things he’s spoken out about over the last week.
But at the same time, I find it difficult to reconcile that he’d so easily turn his back on the “yellow” jersey that thousands of rugby players in Australia would give anything to wear for just a minute.
It’s a simple conclusion to jump to – like Fox Sports commentator Phil Kearns did merely seconds after full time in Pretoria – that Cooper’s antics “obviously affected the Wallabies” coming into Sunday morning’s 31-8 thumping.
I’m not sure it’s obvious at all, and taking this line overlooks how dominant South Africa were, and how abjectly horrendous the Wallabies were at times.
The truth is we may never know how much of an impact Cooper’s airing of grievances had on the team and/or the individuals, certainly not in the short term, anyway.
There may well be players who support him, but who might find it difficult to speak up while trying to prepare for a Test match, and indeed, while ever available for selection. It may well be a case that we won’t know even half of the full story until there have been changes at coaching, management, and national body level. It could take years.
Certainly, the farcical way in which the Wallabies had to finish the game with fourteen players, no hooker, and uncontested scrums, having lost count of the number of subs used, gives credence to some of Cooper’s amateur hour claims. I questioned the tactic of spelling Benn Robinson before halftime and returning him late in the game only a few weeks ago, and that move using up two substitutions definitely needs to be reviewed, particularly in games with high injury tolls.
On that, the shocking spate of injuries in this game cannot be used as an excuse either. The Springboks were already dominating the tackle and breakdown well before the Wallabies made their first substitution, forced, tactical, or otherwise.
Of course, what sort of fit numbers are available to train for the Wallabies’ historic first Rugby Championship match in Argentina remains to be seen. The Wallabies’ former World Cup winning winger manager, and former All Black fullback coach might be required for the opposed sessions.
A Wallabies official told me some time ago that The Roar colleague, and Fairfax columnist, Paul Cully, has quickly established himself as one of the very best analysts in the Australian rugby media, and it’s certainly difficult to disagree with that.
Those comments came flooding back to me when it took the best part of an hour for the Wallabies to properly contest a South African lineout, as Paul had suggested last week was an opportunity to be explored. However, by that stage, the Springboks were already starting to win the Australian throw, and were generally giving Dave Dennis a hell of a time every time he went up. And it did seem to be every time, too; Dennis often appeared a lone hand at lineout time, where both Kane Douglas and Stand-in captain Nathan Sharpe had unhappy times to match their disappointing games overall.
Kurtley Beale provided perhaps the one sliver of positivity for the Wallabies, and I thought he handled his debut outing in the cursed no.10 jersey well. I’d actually suggest that with the possible exception of Michael Hooper, there weren’t too many better performed Wallabies.
Beale learned the mistake of his opening minute grubber kick to no-one, and after that his kicking game was generally pretty good, both long and short. That’s not to say his game was flawless though; far from it. Beale also fell victim to the Australian penchant for tracking east-west rather than north-south at times, and like many of his teammates over the course of the eighty minutes, he took more than one bad option.
Beale did at least show a preference to run rather than kick, though, and when young South African flyhalf Johan Goosen did the same as he often did, there were some great periods of rugby in this game.
Beale also found out the hard way that Cooper’s gripes about wanting to always play attacking rugby just isn’t possible when the forward pack is going backwards. The South African backrow was just too big and too physical at the breakdown, and all too many times Wallabies found themselves going into the contest on their own and rapidly coughing up possession.
Certainly, Beale’s stocks as a flyhalf have risen despite the result. Whether Cooper wants out or not doesn’t really concern me anymore, and frankly, I’d take Beale at 10 right now if given the choice. Beale looks to have shed a few kilos, too, and appears to be well on the way to returning to full fitness.
Of course, the Wallabies now face a major challenge taking on Los Pumas in Rosario, at the very gentlemanly time of mid-Sunday morning AEST.
Just like Test cricket in Perth, I think I could get very used to regular Test rugby in Argentina real quick.
There is just no way Argentina were 40 points worse than the All Blacks, yet that’s the losing margin they walked away from La Plata with.
The Pumas’ up-tempo game could really cause some trouble for the battered Wallaby forwards, and their fleet-footed backs will be counting on forcing more bad option-taking from the Australian backs.
Beale has the vision and creativity in his game to cater for the broken Argentinean line, but it won’t be much use without front-foot ball. The forwards simply must aim up.
Australia can’t play much worse than they did in Pretoria.
This team is said to have abundant character, and that will surely be tested in this coming week.
A win in Rosario could go a long way to appease apathetic fans and help the team emerge from a disgruntled colleague’s shadow. Australian rugby needs a win for the same reasons.
And on a personal note, I really want column no.201 for The Roar next week to be positive. This has been a horrible way to bring up a milestone.
Brett McKay is a former non-tackling scrumhalf and not-quite-1st Grade middle order stalwart. A rugby and cricket expert for The Roar since July 2009 (having joined in Sept 2008), Brett has written for Inside Rugby and Cricket Australia, and is also PLAY Canberra's rugby correspondent. He tweets from @BMcSport
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- Explore:
- Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Rugby Union, wallabies

October 2nd 2012 @ 5:19am
Kane said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:19am | Report comment
No mention of Beale’s shocker of a pass that led to Habana’s try?
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:28am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Nope. Just like there was no mention of his excellent work in the lead-up to Harris’ try. What’s your point, Kane?
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:32am
Kane said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
I think what you have written about his game is fair but I’ve seen too many articles rave about how well he played and I feel that that his screw up needs to be brought to peoples attention that he didn’t play as well as they believe.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:37am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
I can’t control how other people cover the game, I can only descibe what I saw, which on the whole and even with some blemishes was a pretty good performance. I’d like to think I’ve covered his good and bad pretty well, actually..
“Beale learned the mistake of his opening minute grubber kick to no-one, and after that his kicking game was generally pretty good, both long and short. That’s not to say his game was flawless though; far from it. Beale also fell victim to the Australian penchant for tracking east-west rather than north-south at times, and like many of his teammates over the course of the eighty minutes, he took more than one bad option.”
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:46am
El Gamba said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Brett,
You should have brought up your 200th with an article on the Associates Premier Grade GF victory in Perth on Sunday. Now that’s a good story
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:49pm
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
I’ll take good news from anywhere, EG, please do tell…
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:45pm
El Gamba said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
Unfortunately I only got text updates in Brisbane Brett but it’s always good when your old club gets a few premierships (Colts, 2nds and 1sts). Don’t even know if the game was good other than my biased opinion that the good guys won!
23 – 17 over Nedlands, it doesn’t get enough coverage unfortunately!
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:52pm
Pierce said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
El Gamba
Match report links below. Cracking day. 1sts and 2nds nailbiters, Colts won easy (33-0)
http://www.rugbywa.com.au/NewsEvents/NewsArticles/tabid/905/ArticleID/7781/Default.aspx
http://www.rugbywa.com.au/NewsEvents/NewsArticles/tabid/905/ArticleID/7780/Default.aspx
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:06pm
El Gamba said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
Beautiful, thanks Pierce!
Good times, was a part of the side that won that ten years ago. Good to see a few of the juniors from back then running around.
That’s what rugby’s about.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:05pm
Kuruki said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
I thought Beale tried really hard but he lacked options. He went to the line looking for runners and nothing was there, Cooper was the same. They are not getting enough support, there is no structure.
October 2nd 2012 @ 5:36am
Johnno said | October 2nd 2012 @ 5:36am | Report comment
Quade is right the wallabies are toxic. I will add to that and say the wallabies as a brand are toxic times 5 . My criticism of Qaude is , he wasn’t savage enough, or din’t articulate or was too much of a coward to really say why. the wallabies are really toxic toxic toxic right now.
-And just to confirm we have now lost our no 2 ranking. We are now ofiicaly ranked 3 in the world.
http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html
-Why we are so toxic
JON,Deans,Nucifora
So the toxic files here goes :
Quade was right we are toxic
-Now down to No 3 in world rugby
-Worst ever under-20 world cup under Nucifora finish 8th
-No 3rd tier
-Small talant pool to draw on just a few private schools. Reaiity is rugby in Austrlaia is starting to remind of the bad old days in aussy soccer. Just a minority sport in the old NSL then , it went mainstream with the A-league being totally national like the old nSL but more mainstream, and making the 2006 world cup.
-We have no brand awareness much in Adleaide, Newcastle,west sydney, gold coast on a consitient basis.
-And brand awareness issues: How many people would know james Horwill if we walked down the strees of west sydney. ALmost zero. I bet you many more would know who Billy Slater is or Jonathan Thurston, or Harry Kewell.
-And the injury cop out . SOme facts. Boks were massively injury depleted too, they just have more depth, and I wonder why, they have a 3rd tier, better promotion of rugby eg allowing schoolboy rugby on TV, so they want to generate exposure unlike schools here.
So the injury Myth: Boks had just as many frontliners out. A lot of the wallabies injured are not all front liners. I will read out Boks inure list or unavailability to show it evened itself out:
-Bismarc Du Plessis (best hooker in world), Frans Steyn, Pierre Spies, Schalk Burger, JP Peterson(was best winger in world super rugby finals and awesome player and record) , Jacue Fourie (Japan rugby still in prime), Freddy Du preez(Japan rugby still one off if not no 1 halfback in world rugby), Bakkies Botha (French rugby), Dane Rossow(Japan rugby), Connie othezioun young prop, Guthro Steenkamp, Henrich brussow not picked, and Juan Smith who is about to make comeback but going to french rugby.
So the injury deal and player unavailability is even between books VS Aussies. And I would argue Micheal Hooper and Timani and Ben Alexander have been just as effective as Horwill, Pocock, and sekope kepu.
- Wycliff Palu, Will Genia, maybe JOC, Horwill have been big blows,. Coz Liam Gill and Micheal Hooper both are outstanding lose nothing in Pocock absence
But no Joe Tomane, Cooper Vuna, ben Mcelman, Dan Palmer,Drew Mitchell, Lachie Turner, Qaude cooper (hasn’t been in form this year if ever in last year for wallabies), are not body blows for wallabies. And Beale has been more effective than Qaude.
-And so we were losing the test match anyway before all the injuries struck in Pretoria were were getting smashed before the injuries struck and would of loosed.
-Reaiity is we are just not cutting it full stop for multiple reasons i have mentioned above and many more.
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:17am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:17am | Report comment
johnno i am not a deans fan but gotta say…
you havent given deans credit for getting you to #2 in the first place but u can berate him for oz dropping to 3rd. which tbh is more realistic.
no 3rd tier? there wasnt one when deans turned up
small talent pool due to elitest private school mentality in most states. deans has nothing to do with this. this is ARU and the oz public in general
brand? deans is a coach not a marketer
injuries? deans isnt a doctor or physio
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:25am
Johnno said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:25am | Report comment
Mania i blamed JON,Deans, and nucifora all in equal order. Read my post about all the reasons why i agree with Quade the wallabies are toxic. Deans is one of many reasons, and the injury excuse annoys me as the books were just as injured missing key players..\
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:28am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:28am | Report comment
johnno – sure the injury crisis isnt the sole reason but you cant dismiss it as not having some type of over all effect on the quality performance of the wb’s. team work has to be suffering as no combinations are getting a chance to grow.
quades the toxic one as he doesnt understand the meaning of team spirit and is all about himself.
i agree about the missing 3rd tier and more importantly the grass roots system below that
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:37am
Johnno said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:37am | Report comment
Quade is toxic Mania too but so is wallabies. yes we have injuries and they hurt but only to 3 or 4 front-line wallabies. Cooper tuna and joe tomane and drew mitchll and dan palmer are not body blows. Look at south africa’s injury toll i wrote above heaps of frontline players out ,Mania.
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:46am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:46am | Report comment
yes johnno – i know all about SA’s injuries list. what your not pointing out is the difference in depth between oz and sa. this injury crisis is affecting oz so much more than sa. ireckon u just have to write this season off and not expect anything.
deans and the wb’s are doing the best that they can with what resources are available. while i agree deans should leave for his own sake now is not the time. theres enough instability at the moment without a new coach being factored in.
but no matter how desperate this injury crisis gets in no way should quade be allowed back in
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:49am
stillmissit said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:49am | Report comment
JOhnno – I enjoy your posts mostly but mate this looks like a cut and paste from several others you have posted. If you don’t agree then try to bring something new and not just sack the lot of them and after the fire dies out we will start again. To my mind that won’t work and who would you bring in to replace O’Neil? There are a bunch of blazer’s wanting to have a crack but really not one of them is capable of running a lolly shop! Putting the knife in and causing havoc they are very good at but running something successfully……
The issues are complex and too an extent I agree that Deans days will be over end of this year. When Ewan starts to struggle (as I am sure he will) what will you bring to the table then? The bottom line is that O’Neil gambled on Deans building a successful Wallaby team then using the money that would bring to build the brand and negotiate from strength. It didn’t happen for many reasons and Quade Cooper is just a minor part of the problems, he certainly no honest whistle-blower bringing light where it never shone before. He is a piece of low life who has been saved from the possibility of a prison sentence because he can play footy. Most youngsters would be grovellingly thankful but not him. Basically Johnno you are putting a round post in a hole designed by Dali.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:04am
Johnno said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:04am | Report comment
Stillmissit thanks for saying you like my post i love compliments and good to know anyone likes my posts i like flattery when it comes to rugby . But the point is stillmissit many roar articles are similar so similar themes and points come up from time to time. No cut and paste looks like it but not one. But to move forwad and answer some solution strategies for you and aussy rugby.
Sack O’neil- candadaties:
-Jim Carmicheal at the Reds
-Andrew Fagan Brumbies
-Todd Geenbrug bulldogs he would appeal to a wide audience
-David Gallop but he now locked up in Soccer. Gallop went to canberra grammar school so is familiar with rugby and played it and cricket.
Qaude to me is a coward who didn’t have the guts to speak up when he had the chance he just put spin on it. Unless something elase is going on him trying to get a contract but whole thing weird but i do agree wallabies and australian rugby are toxic right now.
And coaches Jake White,Mick Cheika, Link .
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:22am
sheek said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Stillmissit,
Very good post in some respects.
Sacking Deans is the “instant” satisfaction option. But is McKenzie really the outstanding alternative? And fans should be careful what they wish for.
If O’Neill were to terminate Deans’ contract, he might hand the job straight to Nucifora. Now wouldn’t that please a lot of folk….. NOT!
And whoever assumes the national coaching position is going to be encumbered by all the same problems Deans has had to deal with. Right now I wouldn’t wish the Wallabies coaching position on anyone.
Unless of course, they were able to hold O’Neill hostage to a whole raft of structural changes, starting with management of the game at the top.
Yes, the issues are indeed complex facing Australian rugby, & there is no ‘cure-all’ magic elixer at the moment…..
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:40am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
I’d imagine that McGahan would be the immediate choice over Nucifora.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:25am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
No, many of us have stated that mcgeehan would be the best option as caretaker but there has been reports from both SMH and aus journos that its looking likely that it would be nucifora would take over. If you think deans is bad well it will be alot worse with nucifora.
Thats the reason why a few of us stick up for deans, we can see he has flaws but we realise that the real issues lay with the running of the game as a whole.
We dont want to see the ARU use deans as a scapegoat and dump him just to shut the masses up, all they will do is put in another one of the old boys like mckenzie or nucifora and then it will be more of the same.
We need change in a top to bottom style.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:29am
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Juts I assume it was a slip of the tongue putting link and nuci in as being cast from the same mould?
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:32am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
At least McKenzie has shown he can actually get something out of the Reds players, and he was won a Super title recently.
Why would Nucifora be chosen on an interim basis when McGahan has day-to-day handlings with the Wallaby players and was recently Munster coach?
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:50am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:50am | Report comment
Not sure why are ur asking us, ask the ARU they are the ones who believe nucifora is the better option.
Yes mckenzie got something out of the reds in 2011, in 2012 his team displayed many of the same issues that plague the wallabies.
Lack of depth, lack of accuracy at the breakdown, poor defence around the ruck fringes, questionable tactical decisions. Continuously picking out of form favourites instead of blokes in form (daley ahead of holmes, faiinga ahead of hanson, robinson ahead of gill, samo ahead of schatz).
Their scrum and lineout were shaky for most of the year too.
They also played quite conservative rugby in the beginning of the year. The sort that many reds supporters complain about the wallabies playing.
Havent we already learnt that super titles mean jack when it comes to test rugby, deans has 5 and hasnt reached similar peaks in test rugby, mckenzie has failed twice and won it once.
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:07am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
I’m not really asking you, am I. It was rhetorical. And personally I doubt Nucifora would be given the role given how McGahan was actually placed by the ARU alongside Deans. You never know, but I’d be surprised.
The Reds aren’t really the same without Cooper, and he was injured. There’s no real generic issue with Australian rugby. If Laurie Fisher can get a bunch of average (ish) forwards to hit rucks with a good body height then the same is workable with the Test side, for example.
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:17am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
I didnt say it was a generic issue I was just questioning mckenzie’s claim to the throne as he displayed similar coaching issues to deans.
The reds cant blame the poor performance of the their forward pack for most of the year on not having cooper in the team, besides their best game of the year was against the chiefs and cooper wanst there that game either.
Yes your not asking me specifically but your questioning the legitimacy of my statement, and have chosen to ignore the reason why I believe he will be appointed. There is no logic or solid grounds for him being appointed but the ARU doesnt make decisions in that manner anyway.
Wayne smith of the australian, one of the more senior aus rugby journos, stated in an article on fri that ARU insiders told him it was looking likely that if robbie was to be dumped it would be nucifora replacing him.
And justin yeah, I should clarify, mckenzie is a much better prospect that nuci, I dont really have a huge issue with him in general but I do have a huge issue with they way I fear he or nucifora will be brought into the job. There is no denying that they both have connections throughout the old boys network and I fear they will one of them will get the job due to this and not because of their credentials.
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:20am
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Juts – if we are to disregard S15 as a barometer for Test football, what is the alternative.
Believe me I dont think Link is perfect and he as you have pointed out isnt a brilliant selector at times either. I do believe he has the ability to get a team playing to a game plan though and that is a massive start.
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:23am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:23am | Report comment
I just don’t think it’s comparable. As a Test coach you can bring in any one of a number of players if you have injuries. Look at what the Stormers had to deal with with their back row during the Super season.
Can’t speak on behalf of the ARU.
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:26am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Injuries were only one issue, the pack had hardly any injury issues but were comprehensively outplayed in a number of games. Mckenzie took a while to realise that daley was a liability and had holmes on the bench, he also took ages to realise that samo, and robinson were out of form and continued to play them ahead of gill and schatz till about halfway through the season.
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:59am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:59am | Report comment
Justin, I agree we can use super 15 as one of many barometers but I dont think guys should think link will be the messiah because of one successful super 15 season.
Look im not against mckenzie getting the job but all I want is for the ARU to finally become a professional body and go through a proper process when selecting the coach instead of just handing it to a preordained successor.
Link should have to apply for the job, setting out what his proposed plans are. And he should be one of many that have to follow this process (hopefully there are others who want the job lol).
In an ideal world the applications should be assessed by group possibly containing some ARU types but also some independent blokes and ex-players (like eales and NFJ etc) who all want what is best for the team.
If link is chosen as the ideal candidate after going through this sort of process than I will have no complaints.
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:08pm
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Juts – I am happy with all of that.
Remember Link has got 3 teams to finals. Thats not be sneezed at but yes the process and best candidate must be found
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:29am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:29am | Report comment
SMI, this is a really good post. I was going to let Johnno’s post be just another Johnno post, but you’ve described the complexity around all this perfectly..
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:13am
sixo_clock said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:13am | Report comment
If the players are smashed around, take poor game options why is that the coaches fault? Deans can only work with the men available. He has worked this group to as high as second in the rankings with, not without, the support group provided by the ARU.
It is the players who must shoulder the blame for any failings. It just may be true that Dingo is too soft on them but at what point does pride in the guersey kick in, when do they start to play as a single unit, when do they accept the responsibility to alter tactics on the field in the face of the current opposition? Not happening at all is it. Consider why, give it some real thought. Instead of going on these rambling witch-hunts with no stated alternatives.
Narcissists can only look forward to depression when their support fades away.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:30am
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:30am | Report comment
JON – “Robbie here is your contract. ”
RD – “How long is it for?”
JON – “Life”
RD “Great, do you think I can turn it around in that time?”
JON – “Robbie you are the greatest coach this game has seen and no one could possibly be better”
RD – “Thanks, can I give Browny and Mummy a call for next weeks game and Vuna too?”
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:41am
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
So it’s down to Deans when the side goes well, but down to the players when they play badly?
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:38pm
garth said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Why not? Makes a change from praising the players when they win & condemning the coach when they lose. Have you noticed that its always “winning captain (insert name) lead his/her team…” or “losing coach (insert name) had no answer to…”.
October 3rd 2012 @ 5:56am
Ben.S said | October 3rd 2012 @ 5:56am | Report comment
Not really. Rod McQ and SCW always got a huge amount of kudos.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:31am
Ian said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
The problem is depth. Not to excuse deans but he has no options. Tomane and vuna are simply not test quality players. Neither is Douglas, morahan, faingaa, Horne, etc. we saw the super rugby franchises playing with players not up to the standard, particularly half the force team on any given Saturday. Now that has bled into the wallabies. And that isn’t even addressing the real quality out injured, though to be fair, most of them are not world class either.
The real question for me is where are the wallabies from the year before the World Cup? They began to put in 15 or 20 minutes of some of the best rugby ever with scathing backline movements and blistering attack. Never consistently, but they seemed to me to be approaching something special. Where did that magic go? Figure that out and the wallabies will be on top again.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:49am
daniel said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
what a stupid point you make. That more people would recognise billy slater and jonathon thurston walking down the street than james horwill. Of course they would those player score and set up tries in a game that is designed to be one on one and show case individual skills. There is plenty of brand awareness for the wallabies.I could be like you and pick not like for like. Who do you think a young kid would reckonise walking down the street first James o conner or paul gallen? Im positive it would be o conner. Hooper and Tomani covering pocock and horwill what a joke. Hooper has had 3 games where he has ran around and tackled everything thats great but pocock has changed and won games with his play and is so consistant I cant believe people cant see he is the one wallabies miss the most. Tomani has been about as effective as horwill he has been injured so he cant of covered horwill on the field. I dont care who you are this amount of injuries take a toll.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:54am
Johnno said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
No it’s not it’s Daniel becoz rugby league is bigger than rugby union and i am an union man. The try thing is silly, rugby scores more tries than soccer with goals. more people in england would recognise Micheal Owen today at 32 over danny cipriani or chris ashton. It’s coz rugby brand awnress is low. And i am sorry the tv ratings for the gold coast test were awful only 470,000.
When your national captian is barley recognised in the biggest city in Australia you have problems . in west sydney which has 2.2 million people. ANd billy slater and thruston are queenslanders yet more people would recognise them than Horwill a queenslander but the national captian or Dave Pocock. And world cup tv ratings are 1 offs every 4 years.
And know i will add Digby Ioane and JOC to that too harly anyone would recogonise them in west sydney, or adelaide or Melbourne despite JOC playing there and DIgby living there growing up.
You have an inflated view of the wallabies popularity it seems Daniel . It makes me think are you form one of the few tiny rugby heartlands in OZ, sydney’s north shore.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:29am
daniel said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Jonno you seem to know alot about what other people think and know. I dont have an inflated view of the wallabies popularity I just said it was stupid to compare a playmaker and outside back in league with a second rower in rugby in a who would get recognised competition. Its not the captains job to be recognised if there are others to get the brand out there. I live in St Marys and for you to say digby would not be recognised here is ludacris every islander family as far as the eye can see and there are alot of them knows digby brought his parents a house in samoa because of rugby. You would know that if you have been in the community of west sydney. Or are you just the north shore boy trying to pretend to be one of the cool westies.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:45am
Johnno said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Daniel i am an esatern suburbs boy, not a north shore boy (very gad about that), and not a cool westie either like you. The point is i would challenge many wallabies would not get recognised in west sydney and backs to. Quade cooper for 1, Adam Ashely cooper. Your a west sydney boy, i go out your way sometimes for work and and i can guarantee you i see a lot more NRL jerseys than wallaby. Why not just coz there are more pro teams out there , sorry penrith emus are amateur . But coz that is precisely it, no pr temas, no developing rugby in other heartlands , no junior development to acceptable levels and this all means no brand awrness.
You Dan obviously think John O’neil is hard done by , and same with Deans. Shame on you Daniel.
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:02pm
p.Tah said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Johnno, this may interest you. Narrabeen Sports High is offering Rugby 7s as a summer sport. This allows RL boys to play RL in the winter, Rugby 7s in the Summer. No sure who they’ll play against but interesting idea if it catches on.
http://origin.manly-daily.whereilive.com.au/news/story/program-includes-all-codes/
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:53pm
bennalong said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:53pm | Report comment
Cranbrook Johnno?
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:08am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
rugby league is bigger than rugby in sydney
October 2nd 2012 @ 3:14pm
GWS said | October 2nd 2012 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
Not where I live mate. O’Connor who?
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:49am
Louis said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:49am | Report comment
Stop trolling, we get the message.
October 3rd 2012 @ 3:48pm
JapanBoy said | October 3rd 2012 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
Liked the article Brett and agree Beale did a much better job at 10 than many are inclined to concede. At least he was thinking about the game and not how good he is likely to look there.
I think the injury list itself is worth comment, without reference to which particular players are injured.
Why are so many – vis a vis our opponents – being injured? Surely you have to start questioning whether there something seriously lacking in the way they are being coached with regard to tackling and being tackled, and perhaps even whether they are fit enough across the board (leaving Benn Robinson to one side). The overwhelming number of injuries the WB are sustaining compared with everyone else must point to technical deficiencies that really ought to be addressed preventatively.
My faith on Robbie Deans continues to slide for reasons like this – not because of the ridiculous, attention-seeking nonsense spouted by the illiterate and ill-disciplined QC.
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:03am
kingplaymaker said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:03am | Report comment
This article doesn’t seem to me to really take into account that there were 24 injured Wallabies before the match even began in saying we’re horrendous. Maybe they played as well as a second string can be expected to against South Africa at home.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:31am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:31am | Report comment
KPM, I’ve not cited injuries and unavailabilities as a reason for a loss before, so why would I start now?
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:11am
kingplaymaker said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:11am | Report comment
Brett the colossal and unprecedented scale of the injuries. This isn’t even a heavy injury toll but an apocalypse. 24 Wallabies out before the start.
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:13am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
So you’ve said. I’m not saying the injuries don’t exist KPM, I’m just concerning myself with how the selected XV played. And on the whole, that wasn’t brilliant..
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:00pm
bennalong said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:00pm | Report comment
Sorry Brett but KPM has a point
In the usual run of things perhaps you’re right but it’s hardly a reason in this Guiness Book of Records scale of injuries to doggedly apply the same rules.
You can say exactly what you’ve said and still acknowledge the situation is unprecedented
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:43pm
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
Out of interest, who were the 24 Wallabies?
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:40pm
garth said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
Man does have a point.
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:04am
moaman said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:04am | Report comment
Brett-Congrats on bringing up your double-ton even though it may have felt like 20,000 having to write that one!
As a neutral,I would love to see some changes made at the top–if only because the Roar isn’t such a happy place anymore!
It seems a lifetime ago that many were talking about beating the All Blacks in BOTH the 1st two games of the RC and taking a stranglehold on the competition……
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:34am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Cheers Moa. I had reason over the weekend to look at some earlier Wallaby articles and columns this year, and you’re right, there was a happy optimism about them. It’d be nice to finish the southern season just on the way up, even if not on a high..
October 2nd 2012 @ 3:37pm
sheek said | October 2nd 2012 @ 3:37pm | Report comment
Yes Brett,
Congrats on the 200 posts, very well done indeed.
BTW, when looking back at past posts, did you sense any ‘groundhog day’…..?????
(I kinda think we’ve more or less been discussing much the same things for about, oh 5-6 years, ie, The Roar’s existence)
It’s a good thing we humans love repetition…..
October 2nd 2012 @ 3:39pm
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
Massive levels of Groundhog Day Sheek, definitely..
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:11am
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:11am | Report comment
Brett enjoyed the read and you made some good points. Tactically we were inept as usual.
Why having lost a number 8 are we calling up a second rower in Neville? Higgers is in doubt still and no back row replacement is called for. We have 4 locks on tour already which apparently isn’t enough, we need 5! So this weekend we may have 2 sevens starting and a 6 at 8 with 2 locks on the bench. Our best centre still win get a bench spot, our current 12 looks like playing 15 so our reserve kicker can play 12.
Need we say more?
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:42am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
J2, given the current state of affairs, it wouldn’t have been surprised if a fullback was called up to cover Higgers. Realistically, Simmons and Neville have played a bit of blindside, and Dennis played a couple of game for the Tahs this year at no.8, so I suppose there is some method in the apperent madness.
I’m expecting the XV to face Los Pumas to have a real makeshift look about it though. Depending on how he runs at training, Bob Edgerton might be a chance…
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:32am
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
BM – I see your point and my next comment isnt aimed at you. But we are talking about national selection and bringing in guys who have “played a bit” in one position or another at a much lower level.
That is not the type of system that should be employed. Its a dogs breakfast.
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:03am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
Is there any rulings about bringing in blokes that werent part of the intial sqaud selected at the beginning of the tournament?
I dont know the answer but would that be a reason why neville is the bloke they called upon?
I would love to see them use this as an opportunity to throw vaea or aleau into the game but then when was the last time either of these blokes played any rugby?
We really do need an NPC style tournament dont we, or at least send more of our blokes to the NPC and currie cups.
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:12pm
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Yeah I dont know Juts but it would be logical for someone that is a S15 backrower who has had a good season, such as Mowen, may get the call up when we are short on 6/8s. Not a second rower which we already have 4 of on tour.
Where is the logic?
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:41pm
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
Oh yeah I forgot mowen was in the squad.
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:15am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:15am | Report comment
I don’t disagree J2, and “dogs breakfast” is pretty apt currently. But desperate times call for desperate measures, I guess, given the number of injuries that KPM is trying so hard to make me aware of..
October 2nd 2012 @ 12:23pm
Shop said | October 2nd 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Will he be allowed to play with his socks down?
October 2nd 2012 @ 2:47pm
formeropenside said | October 2nd 2012 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Simmons has never played club or Super rugby other than in the second row, to my knowledge.
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:48am
WQ said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:48am | Report comment
Brett, your comments re: Cooper are exactly as I feel.
At the beginning I was thinking Oh Dear!
Now I am thinking, best thing that could have happened and now maybe the Wallabies can move forward. Cooper needs to be banished forever, never to be seen again. Wallaby Rugby needs to be protected here, it is much more important than an individual player.
I feel that Coopers performance over the past few weeks has had an effect on the Wallabies. It now must be used as motivation for the balance of the squad to show that they do value the Jersey and want to give their all for it.
A few injured players coming back would certainly help the cause!
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:54am
stillmissit said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:54am | Report comment
WQ – This is a tricky time for the Wallabies and the prospect of dropping out of the top 4 is real. What reasons do you have to believe things are going to be better under Ewan and who knows who else? Agree re Cooper and ban his manager permanently who it seems architected this little well timed bomb.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:20am
WQ said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Good Morning stillmissit,
I have not suggested that Anybody in particular replace Robbie Deans, however I do believe that ultimately Australian Rugby fans will never accept an ex All Black as their national Coach.
I think for now we quietly move on but start to think about a controlled hand over to another Coach that protects both Deans and The Wallabies.
Fortunately there is not long to go in this season and by next year the Wallabies will have all of their top line players back, healthy and raring to go after extended breaks from the game.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:32am
Geoff Brisbane said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Thanks Brett for another well written article, never easy with such a wealth of knowledge and experience on this site as your assessors but I enjoy the perspective you bring. Hey WQ I agree the Australian Rugby fraternity will never accept a non-Australian at the Coaching helm unless it was someone like say Wayne Smith (whom I reckon would be an amazing get for any team). But the Australian candidates are to be honest very very limited in their experience and skills. I guess having worked in a lot of different organisations where at times things haven’t always worked out the first to normally be asked for their resignation is the TOP DOG. When a new Top Dog is appointed then they will choose who will be in their team. So right now JON needs to go and the new Boss can then determine who he or She wants as part of their team. To replace Deans right away is a mistake, let the new Boss make that decision and also the makeup of his or her team.
The Wallaby brand is suffering beacause in my opinion the value of wearing the Gold and Green colours has been eroded from within by the likes of Messrs Cooper and the other for now members of the Rat Pack. Of course lack of success leads to uncertainty,anger and disappointment both on and off the field but I reckon that the Wallabies are actually building momentum towards an exciting era for Australian Rugby with the talent that is coming through as a result of so many injuries and the blooding of so many new players (believe it or not almost a quasi 3rd tier forced upon the Wallabies) the future actually looks brighter then most Roarers realise right now.Please let the head be replaced like now and then let the games begin.
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:34am
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Yet Geoff this “Rat Pack” has been allowed to develop and blossom under who exactly?
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:22am
WQ said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:22am | Report comment
G’day Geoff,
Your comments about the Wallabies building for an exciting period as a result of being forced to create depth through injury I believe is bang on the money.
Regardless of who coaches the Wallabies after Deans there will be an abundence of experienced players around to select from. Lets face it it once 5 or 6 of their key players are firing again with plenty of pressure coming from the so called fill in’s then we will see the Wallabies winning again.
This leads me to the Coach, whilst I agree that the Australian Coaching stocks are not sky high at the present, I still believe that for the Culture of Australian Rugby they should have an Australian Coach. I have always believed that a Teams Culture and Heritage should come before winning. In my experience once the Heritage has been respected and the Culture is right, Teams just have a tendancy to win!
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:58am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:58am | Report comment
agree wq- quade is finished.
stealing stillmissits quote “Most youngsters would be grovellingly thankful but not him”
a kiwi would never turn down an opportunity to wear black. yet qc flips it off as if its a club jersey
qc’s timing of his rants were purposefully disruptive at the ideal worst time to try and derail his old team. what a major loser.
there is nothing qc could posibly bring to the team that would outwiegh the damage he is attempting to do to them
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:06am
Johnno said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
Carl Hayman did Mania. He had the chance to come back in 2010 and be part of the world cup in 2011, and he turned down a world cup title , and chose the money instead.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:12am
kingplaymaker said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:12am | Report comment
Johnno Hayman is almost the biggest mercenary in All Black history.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:22am
WQ said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Even bigger than SBW KPM?
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:28am
kingplaymaker said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:28am | Report comment
Hence the word ‘almost’
Luckily I saw in time that my phone had substituted ‘Batman’ instead of ‘Hayman’ which made me think of how unglamorous Batman is as a mercenary.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:07am
WQ said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:07am | Report comment
Ha Ha, at least you caught it before posting!
I wish I had a dollar for every time my computer has thought it is smarter than me and sent out some random word that does not even fit with the sentence I am typing.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:22am
kingplaymaker said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:22am | Report comment
WQ I don’t think I would ever be forgiven for writing Batman there but it put Batman instead of Hayman again at the end of the last sentence so I have ended up say on Batman wouldn’t be glamorous mercenary
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:10pm
soapit said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
i wish you hadnt caught it.
any sentence with batman in it usually improves the discussion.
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:30pm
Campbell Watts said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
I’ve heard the All Blacks called supermen before, but never batman!
He’d hardly even need to change his outfit!
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:14am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:14am | Report comment
really johnno? – carlHayman had already given his all as an AB and was the best of the best at what he did. he bled for the jersey then retired from international rugby. he was in europe when the call went out and decided to think about his long term future. nothing akin to what qc is doing
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:23am
WQ said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:23am | Report comment
Well said mania
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:27am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Great post Mania, if he wanted to make a fair comparison he could of at least gone for bloke who wasnt at the back end of his career.
Maybe nick evans but then he never caused a scene the way cooper did, he just went o’seas to seek opportunities when it was clear he wouldnt get much game time behind carter.
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:34am
mania said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
and what a great career he made for himself. in retrospect evans did the right thing. was bad for nz rugby but it was awesome for him and he was lauded as one of the pre-eminent 1st5′s in europe. had he stayed in nz he always would’ve been “carters backup”.
yeah hayman and qc arent even in the same ball park. hayman had done infinately more in the time he was an AB before retiring.
October 2nd 2012 @ 2:20pm
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Im sure you guys would have been wishing he hadnt left when carter first went down at the WC, but then you wouldnt have had the great story of duck being the last man standing!
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:21am
WQ said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:21am | Report comment
The Wallabies will be much better without what’s his name!!!
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:46am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
WQ, I’m not sure that Cooper’s comments were the best thing that could have happened, but I certainly take your point that they’re out there now, so let’s all (and by that, I mean Australian rugby as a whole) just start looking at the real issues and work towards fixing what needs to be fixed..
October 2nd 2012 @ 10:07am
WQ said | October 2nd 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
We are on a different path here Brett, I certainly don’t think Coopers comments are the best thing, in fact I believe they are the worst possible thing.
I meant that a player with his attitude towards the Wallabies would seemingly now be gone and that is the best thing.
I hope that what ever the problems are, or in fact are not, get resolved behind closed doors, nothing but damage can come from public rifts. I will also repeat my comments towards Cooper, for the sake of Wallaby Rugby he should never play for them again!
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:16am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:16am | Report comment
yep, must agree WQ..
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:51am
Demers said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:51am | Report comment
Wiki lists Andries Bekker at 129 kg and 2.08 (six feet ten). He looked like he was seven feet in Pretoria (due to the thinner air?)
He scored so many lineout wins I lost count. Who do we have in Oz rugby that could do a job in the scrum and is tall enough to go up against him? Somebody currently playing grade rugby maybe?
200 columns? Way to go, Brett. Good luck on being able to be positive next time out. The weekend is going to be brutal for the Ws in Rosario.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:32am
Shop said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Someting that has rarely been mentioned (except above) is how the Wallabies NEVER contested the line out. They had 2 opportunities in the first 10 mins in the SA half and just let the Boks take it. WHY?
This has been happening all season and if I were the coach, I don’t think it would be hard to get through to a team (of professionals) that if they want to win oppoeition line outs, they have to jump!!
October 2nd 2012 @ 9:35am
Justin2 said | October 2nd 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Shop, I have mentioned this numerous times throughout the season. The fact it continues to happen would more than suggest that is the tactic. Do not contest the LO.
Just another poor tactical choice but the coaches.
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:29am
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Yeah I remember us discussing this even after the first bledisloe, two relatively new AB 2nd rowers and a hooker who has had a history of shaky throws but we hardly contested a ball.
Cully’s article was on the mark (as usual), we are playing risk free footy atm, not contesting the lineout is just another example of this.
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:45pm
Ben.S said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:45pm | Report comment
Argentina contested well against Bekker in Argentina tbf.
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:10pm
bennalong said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:10pm | Report comment
You don’t contest the lineout when their jumper gets higher and the pack weight is also higher, or you create opportunities by slowing and weakening your own defensive drive
October 3rd 2012 @ 6:16am
Ben.S said | October 3rd 2012 @ 6:16am | Report comment
I don’t follow re pack weight? Nor higher either. Timing is the real issue, not height surely?
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:47am
Brett McKay said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:47am | Report comment
cheers Demers – loved the ‘thin air’ quip, that made me laugh!
October 2nd 2012 @ 6:51am
Indio said | October 2nd 2012 @ 6:51am | Report comment
Well, I did my $hundy on the Wallabies in SA but unlike some of you “hardened” Wallabies supporters, this AB supporter is not giving up on them so easily. IMO, the Pumas have played their best matches against the Boks and ABs, and if they try to play the same type of match they played against the ABs, the Wallabies will eat them.
I’m backing the Wallabies to win by 13+ for another $hundy.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:51am
JBees said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
This ABs supporter seconds that!
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:01am
Allanthus said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:01am | Report comment
If we’re looking for positives I thought the Wallabies scrum held it’s own with the Boks in the last 7-8 minutes….
October 2nd 2012 @ 1:35pm
Campbell Watts said | October 2nd 2012 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Always a silver lining! Like your angle Allanthus
October 2nd 2012 @ 7:07am
ohtani's jacket said | October 2nd 2012 @ 7:07am | Report comment
I thought the Pumas got suckered into playing the type of game the All Blacks want to play. They really ought to play a tighter, more controlled game against the Wallabies if they want to guarantee a test match victory. They have some really classy backs with what I want to call a Latin American running style; they just need to unleash them on the front foot instead of trying to run the ball from everywhere and keep coughing it up. They also got completely bamboozled by the All Black set plays, which involved McCaw and Read as midfield backs. They better not take too much for granted this weekend.
October 2nd 2012 @ 8:39am
Shop said | October 2nd 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
I think the Pumas have realised that if they are to improve, they have to chance their arm and try things. I haven’t seen all the AB games this year, but I can’t remember their defence being split so open for a try from a set play on the other side of half way for a very long time. It was an awesome first try!!!
They could have kept it tighter and wouldn’t have bled so many points but I believe they are trying to come to terms with attacking rugby that wins games. Unlike the Wb’s of the last few years who seem to be content to lose by not so much….
October 2nd 2012 @ 3:30pm
Kuruki said | October 2nd 2012 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
The All Blacks always encourage other teams to play expansive, because they believe they are batter at it and they have a fitter pack. Games are always closer when the opposition hold the ball tight. One mistake in the back line and the All Blacks counter punishes it.
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:12pm
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:27pm
Kuruki said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
I deride Deans for moving away from his strengths. Australia had the back line play to match the All Blacks when they were playing attacking rugby, i don’t blame you for forgetting since it has been a long time since they showed it.
There is conservative and there is stupidity and not playing to your strengths. The Puma and South Africa have strong packs hence they should use them more often and for longer periods.
Every team should earn the right to throw the ball around using their pack to do the hard work first that is a given, the difference is the current Wallaby backline is kicking away any hard earned ball they get. That’s not conservative, that is stupidity, especially when they kick it to guys like Jane and Dagg.
From what i have seen of the Wallabies of late, there is no structure to the Wallaby backline, the players don’t seem to know where they are supposed to be or what is going to happen next. I think being caught out by kicks has caused this, so they are basically standing flat waiting to chase a kick instead of getting into attacking formations. I deride Deans for not currently having a style or a plan, and totally moving away from what has been the strength of Australian rugby for years. He does not understand Australian rugby from what i can see.
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:45pm
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
Sorry mate I had already deleted my comment before you posted the reply.
I deleted it because I thought it came across as oversimplifying your argument to make my own point.
I agree that we should play to our strengths but we should not shy away from winning the upfront battle and look to spin it wide at all times, to paraphrase your quote “there is attacking rugby, and there is stupidity” which is what I believe the wb’s have been guilty of in the past.
I do remember what the wb’s were like in 2009/2010 when they were playing the attacking brand of rugby, I remember them either getting the break outwide and scoring or turning the ball over as the pack was not fit or disciplined enough to support the outside runners and our backs were too small and lacked the proper technique to secure the ruck ball.
I dont have an issue with the change in dean’s philosophy, like I have said in previous discussion I dont think we do have a definitive “aus style” and I believe good players should be able to adapt to any style.
But dont mistake this for me being 100% behind deans. Whilst I understand the reasoning for his change in philosophy I too would prefer us to maintain an attacking edge. It seems like he has foccused on the narrow attack at the expense of the wide attack, I would prefer him to find a balance between the two.
I also think he is reactionary in his planning, it seems like he is always changing tact based on what has recently occurred rather than sticking to his original plans and tactics and working on them.
October 2nd 2012 @ 4:46pm
Jutsie said | October 2nd 2012 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Lol thats the other reason I deleted my post, I knew you’d give me a reply and then I’d spend another hour with a counter-reply instead of doing my work
October 2nd 2012 @ 11:14pm
bennalong said | October 2nd 2012 @ 11:14pm | Report comment
Which backline are you talking about, kuruki?
I understand your points and I’m not trying to be smart but the backline has had no chance to gel!
October 3rd 2012 @ 8:38am
Kuruki said | October 3rd 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
That pretty much proves my point about Deans not playing to the strengths of Australian rugby. Allot of changes made were selection based not forced by injury. The only consistency in Deans selections seem to be the poor one’s.