New Zealand ran away from the Wallabies during their Bledisloe Cup test match at Eden Park in Auckland (AAP Image/SNPA, Ross Setford).
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In these times of looking for crumbs of comfort be glad the Wallabies managed to pull the Gold Coast Test against Argentina out of the fire, because things could have been a lot worse.
The weekend’s heavy loss in Pretoria not only increased the pressure on Robbie Deans, but quietly moved South Africa above the Wallabies in the IRB’s rankings. Australia are now third.
The battle for the No.2 position is only part of the story. The real issue with the rankings this year is finishing in the top four by December 3, to guarantee a top seeding in the 2015 World Cup.
Had the Wallabies been defeated at home by Los Pumas, they would shed significant rankings points and been dragged into a four-way rankings dogfight for two spots, with England, France, and Wales – the teams they face on the Spring Tour. Any team that finishes outside the top four run the risk of drawing the All Blacks in 2015 group stage, the Wallabies included. Digby Ioane’s late try against Argentina had even more significance than assumed at the time.
Mathematically, the Wallabies still look on track for that top-four berth by December, although grey hairs could be avoided by a win in any of their next three Tests, against Argentina, the All Blacks and France. Still, keep a calculator in the pocket, just in case.
But the demotion from the No.2 ranking is not without significance in itself. Regardless of what you think about the rankings system (some might say the ‘battle’ for second is a bit like a competition to hear who can whisper the loudest) the second ranking – along with the Reds’ Super Rugby title in 2011, the third-place finish in the World Cup and the Tri Nations title last year – has been employed as a shield by the ARU against its critics.
“They [Wallabies] sit at No.2 in the world rankings – the same position in which they started the year – and in head to head showdowns with South Africa and New Zealand have an impressive strike rate of recent times,” John O’Neill wrote on The Roar on December 2011.
The claim is not without merit. The ranking isn’t easily won, and there are well resourced foes in the northern hemisphere would be delighted to wear that badge. But with more than half of the 2012 Test campaign gone, and with only one home game remaining, the Wallabies have conceded their position and will find it difficult to get back. If the Springboks beat the All Blacks this weekend (and they have a better chance than anyone) they will consolidate themselves at No.2.
Throw in the ‘lost’ Tri Nations title to the All Blacks (although, of course, technically it will remain in Australia possession in perpetuity), and the Chiefs’ 2012 Super Rugby title and there is the sense that key planks of the ARU’s defence are being removed. And Scots might inject themselves at this stage to remind everyone where the Hopetoun Cup resides.
The point of this is not to wallow in Australian misery but hold the governing body to account, as all organisations must be. One of the difficulties between the fan base and head office has been this issue of how success, or at least tolerable failure, can be measured. But the decrease in performance and success from 2011 – as outlined above – is measurable and transparent. Not only has the stated aim of taking the No.1 slot failed, but the Wallabies are moving backwards.
On the field the flaws are equally as apparent. You can break down the performance of Australian sides – from Super Rugby to the Wallabies – in many, many ways this year. But the theme running through them all is a persistent inability to win clean, quick ball.
There are fitness issues of course, most apparent at the Waratahs and their inability to shift bodies from attacking rucks. But something broader has been happening.
Almost every utterance from an opposition coach since the second half of 2010 has included reference to slowing down Australian ball, particularly the Reds and the Wallabies.
The analysts have been watching, learning and adapting, encouraging the perception that Australian rugby has been standing still. And in the case of the Springboks, it has been overtaken.
Paul Cully is a freelance journalist who was born in New Zealand, raised in Northern Ireland, but spent most of his working life in Australia. He is a former Sun-Herald sports editor, rugby tragic, and current Roar and RugbyHeaven contributor.
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- John ONeill, Rugby Union, The Rugby Championship, wallabies

October 4th 2012 @ 1:18am
Uncle Argyle said | October 4th 2012 @ 1:18am | Report comment
Good morning Paul & fellow Roarers,
Firstly congrats on an excellent article Paul. A good read. I hope this puts some of the ARU defenders on notice now that the old argument of ‘We are number 2 in the world is no longer valid.’ Furthermore our development in the under 20′s department is in decline. In 2008 Australia beat France for the play off for fifth position. In 2012 under ARU inquisitor David Nucifora we finished eighth. This is an unacceptable position if we are serious about being champions again.
In relation to Super rugby success in 2011 the ARU did loan the QRU money that allowed financial survival and for the McKenzie, Carmichael, McCall era to flourish, however it would be disingenuous to suggest the ARU is the father of recent on field success in Queensland rugby. The fact is Carmichael is a very good administrator & McKenzie and very good coach who put together a very good team. Robbie Deans should take no credit for the success at the Reds and the ARU very little at all. It has been mentioned on the Roar that ‘ARU systems’ were implemented into Queensland rugby. I would suggest that is not the case because Queensland rugby appears much healthier that Australian rugby does it not?
There are some who argue the injury toll. It is an area of serious concern. However what is of even more concern is the lack of flexibility in the game plan employed by Deans and the lack of accountability the ARU holds him to. If the ARU were a publicly listed company would you invest your hard earned under its current governance? Not me. Where is the accountability and transparency? Where is the return on investment?
Now the British Lion’s are going to save our financial bacon with an estimated $70 million windfall to the coffers in 2013. John O’Neill is a benefactor of the calendar of rugby again. He is not instrumental in arranging this tour. The Lion’s tour Australia every 10 years now. Like being the benefactor of the SANZAR deal in 1996 and being in the chair when Australia had a wealth of talent O’Neill will find himself in the right place at the right time. I only hope the ARU do not renew his contract and we find a person who can use that money to get our game back on track as it is currently wilting on the vine.
Enter the fat lady please!
October 4th 2012 @ 2:15am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 2:15am | Report comment
Normally I’m on the same page as much of what Paul Cully writes, but I’m completely at odds with this article.
At the end of saturday night 28 Wallabies were injured. This for a nation with weaker playing stocks than its two main competitors is fatal. Paul Cully must know this, but yet introduces Robbie Deans’ name at the opening, in connection to the loss of world ranking, without taking into account the colossal loss of playing stocks he has needed to face.
Paul Cully must surely know that losing 28 players makes it not a normal challenge for Robbie Deans to beat the All Blacks and South Africa, but a stupendous one. But the injuries aren’t given the prominence that they deserve, and yet Robbie Deans appears at the beginning of the article.
‘Flaws on the field’ are not related to the loss of almost two teams’ worth of players.
The ARU are also blamed, though with little explanation as to what the depth of problems are that lose the team the world ranking.
Perhaps not managing the workload of players at the franchises so 28 end up injured, crippling the national team’s chances is something that could levelled at the ARU, and the results not implicitly tied to Deans?
Perhaps the weak playing depth of Australian rugby in comparison to New Zealand and South Africa could be aimed at the ARU and not implicitly tied to Deans?
But why bother when it’s easy to find a scapegoat with Deans.
Australia has not been overtaken by South Africa, it has been overtaken by 28 injuries.
October 4th 2012 @ 3:40am
Kane said | October 4th 2012 @ 3:40am | Report comment
Can you please name the 28?
I’m just a little curious as who you are including in this tally/
October 4th 2012 @ 3:58am
Jiggles said | October 4th 2012 @ 3:58am | Report comment
The forwards from last weekend:
Robinson
TPN
Alexander
Sharpe
Four tight 5 forwards with extensive Wallaby experience.
Higginbotham has been fit all year but Deans choses not to go with Australia’s best 6, rather he picks Dennis. Thats his own fault. He was injured this week though.
Hooper is playing out of his skin – I really don’t think Pocock would be making much of a difference.
Samo has been adequate this year especially in his last 2 test where he has stepped up.
So thats only 1 of the pack that is an emergency injury and with little experience – Douglas.
To me that looks like Deans messing up his selections and tactics, not injuries.
Looking at the Backs:
Genia is obviously out – fair enough.
Deans thinks Beale is the best option. Thats his call.
McCabe is Deans favoured 12. His call.
We have been playing with AAC all year, and finally he is picked at 13. His injury didn’t mean we lost that test. Faingaa has test experience.
Ioane is first choice.
Shipperley is below Mitchell and JOC, fair enough.
Barnes is a Deans favourite – It’s his own making that he is in the team.
Looking at the starting 15 from last weekend – Two are very inexperienced (Douglas, Shipperley) and 1 is far behind the incumbent, which is Phipps.
3 of the subs lack extended Wallaby experience – Gill, Sheehen, Harris. However I don’t believe they can be used as excuses.
So in summary, the 28 injuries excuse is a big pile of flaming doo doo.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:14am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:14am | Report comment
That’s all according to a resoundingly subject interpretation of who should be in the Wallabies team based on who you think should and who Deans think should, combined to make it seem as if the team would be nearly the same without injuries.
In the backs, Genia, Cooper and JOC, 3 of the key game-breakers are missing hobbling the attack. Not only that, but Joe Tomane, Lealiifano and Chris Sautia would probably or in the latter case possibly have hugely improved th attack yet further. A backline such as Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Lealiifano, JOC, Tomane, Beale is infinitely more dangerous than the current one.
Then there’s Mitchell and Turner, two outstanding international wings.
In the forwards, Palu is a crucial key to dominance in the loose, Pocock virtually the best 7 in the world and the source of turnovers that have plagued South Africa and were absent last saturday, Moore the kind of outstanding hooker who can strengthen the team in the second half replacing TPN, Kepu’s powerhouse runs and strong scrummaging a fundamental element. Palmer had an excellent debut and would probably have eclipsed both starting props, Horwill is a tremendous lock.
These and the other players would also add the key ingredient of depth, not only improving the starting XV but meaning that the bench would be a strong as the starters and could make a dramatic difference, that the team wouldn’t weaken fatally with injuries, that there was strong competition for places bringing the best out of players and resulting in an on-form player replacing an off-form player.
All this means that injuries have not only played a part but completely determined the course of this international season and that ludicrous attempts to suggest they haven’t are simply anti-Deans fanaticism clasping at any straw to discredit him.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:17am
Kane said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:17am | Report comment
Deans has done enough at his own accord to discredit himself. He doesn’t need help with that
October 4th 2012 @ 9:11am
Dexter William said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
If Dean Mumm is still available, he would be picked by RD
“Joe Tomane, Lealiifano and Chris Sautia”
Not even worth mentioning, as they have not proved their worth.
Just look at last season Brumbies. They do not have stars or x factor players, but a well coached team is more important than you give it credit for.
Or when the Reds won 2011 S15 title, the team they had would on paper not win the S15 title, but they beat the best of NZ and SA.
You just keep on a bout not enough cattle, but Australia has never been a country where we had enough cattle, but we have won two RWC because we play smart rugby.
Now under Deans (during the 2011 RWC and thereafter, it has been dumb coaching). I did like his earlier effort before the RWC.
Once more KPM. No one is complaining about losses, but the manner in which we are losing. RD stupid pattern of play is becoming shameful based on what Australian rugby used to stand for. In your books, it is always the lack of cattle, but not the coaching: Does that sound right??? Honestly??? Unless RD is your father, I can not understand your love for him.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:50pm
Dez said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
Are u still trumpeting Pocock as th world’s best No7 KPM? Dream on…
October 5th 2012 @ 12:47am
bennalong said | October 5th 2012 @ 12:47am | Report comment
How quickly they forget!
October 4th 2012 @ 4:17am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:17am | Report comment
That’s all according to a resoundingly subjective interpretation of who should be in the Wallabies team based on who you think should and who Deans think should, combined cleverly to make it seem as if the team would be nearly the same without injuries.
In the backs, Genia, Cooper and JOC, 3 of the key game-breakers are missing hobbling the attack. Not only that, but Joe Tomane, Lealiifano and Chris Sautia would probably or in the latter case possibly have hugely improved the attack yet further. A backline such as Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Lealiifano, JOC, Tomane, Beale is infinitely more dangerous than the current one.
Then there’s Mitchell and Turner, two outstanding international wings.
In the forwards, Palu is a crucial key to dominance in the loose, Pocock virtually the best 7 in the world and the source of turnovers that have plagued South Africa and were absent last saturday, Moore the kind of outstanding hooker who can strengthen the team in the second half replacing TPN, Kepu’s powerhouse runs and strong scrummaging a fundamental element in the pack. Palmer had an excellent debut and would probably have eclipsed both starting props, Horwill is a tremendous lock.
These and the other players would also add the key ingredient of depth, not only improving the starting XV but meaning that the bench would be a strong as the starters and could make a dramatic difference, that the team wouldn’t weaken fatally with injuries, that a range of different styled players and tactics were possible, that there was strong competition for places bringing the best out of players and resulting in an on-form player replacing an off-form player.
All this means that injuries have not only played a part but completely determined the course of this international season and that ludicrous attempts to suggest they haven’t are simply anti-Deans fanaticism clasping at any straw to discredit him.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:56am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:56am | Report comment
Just name a list of 28 people. It’s really not that difficult.
October 4th 2012 @ 5:17am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:17am | Report comment
Honestly, have you actually seen these men play?
When was the last Test year that Mitchell was considered an outstanding international wing, let alone Turner?
Palu is crucial to dominance in the loose? What does that even actually mean?
How many metres a Test does Kepu make?
Palmer would have eclipsed who? How does Palmer even compare to Kepu? On one hand you’re making reference to Kepu’s ability in the loose, and then suggesting that a player who is effectively nothing but a scrummager would eclipse a player who isn’t considered solely a scrummager, and if your basis for this is a bit of game time against Scotland then I suggest you talk to an actual prop forward.
Just wow.
October 4th 2012 @ 5:30am
mania said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:30am | Report comment
mitchell has been an awesome wing in the past. this season he’s been well below average and undeserving of a test jersey. whats wrong with turner? he’s an awesome wing with vision and speed.
agree about palu. he’s predictable and part time.
kepu is an awesome scrummager, well in relation to oz playing stocks. he has a better work load in the loose than slipper and fattyRobinson.
October 4th 2012 @ 5:46am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:46am | Report comment
When was the last season Mitchell was a real threat in Test rugby? Not last year, and in 2010 he was a defensive liability.
If Turner is awesome then I’m not sure how you’d rate Cory Jane?
October 4th 2012 @ 5:53am
mania said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:53am | Report comment
sorry ben i should further qualify my statements “turner is an awesome australian wing”
not fair to compare him to jane, not many wingers would be in janes league at the moment other than habana.
what i meant is out of the oz stocks lachie is up there as one fo the best to have to choose from.
other than digby, shipperly, lachie and mitchell who would you put onto the wb’s wing?
mitchell played well before being injured last year but was good in 2010. mitchell has a never say die attitude and is constantly looking for work and tries
October 4th 2012 @ 6:03am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:03am | Report comment
Fair enough re Jane.
I disagree re Mitchell. I think he’s a joker. Just too poor defensively. I’d stick with a back three of JOC-Beale-Ioane.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:12am
mania said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:12am | Report comment
ben.S – mitchell to me is annoying because not only is he smart he’s controlled agression as well. JOC has the skill but none of the fire or fight. JOC will try n out smart you. mitchell will try smarts and power but failing either will always put up a fight. i’ve never had any issue with mitchells defence but will keep an eye on it nw that you’ve brought it up. its mitchels work ethic i admire.
would love to see that back 3 back in the fight tho. beale didnt fire in 15 this season but was finally playing well as 10 last week. would love to see beale back as the worlds best counter attacking full back
October 4th 2012 @ 6:28am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:28am | Report comment
I’m just not a fan of him, mate. England have scorched Mitchell (having targeted him) the last two times they met.
I like O’Connor. Just think he’s a very clever and skilled player.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:34am
mania said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:34am | Report comment
yeah ben i prefer brains and skill over brawn and physicality. though heart and cajones goes a long way as well
October 4th 2012 @ 6:48am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:48am | Report comment
That much is still true.
October 4th 2012 @ 8:38am
soapit said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
ben the last time you say mitchell played well was basically the last time he had any consistent rugby. he’s been out for the bulk of the last 2 seasons.
before he went out he was in career best form and a real weapon but assuming he’d be at this peak so long as he wasnt injured may be optimistic.
October 4th 2012 @ 9:20am
Dexter William said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Mania
You are normally a good judge, but:
“whats wrong with turner? he’s an awesome wing with vision and speed.”
Turner had played more than a handful of Test, and all I can remember is that he tries very hard and defended very well.
Yes, he has speed, but vision???
I like Turner, but as a winger he is always at the wrong place at the wrong time to be anywhere near awesome.
Even when you look at his S15 record, he is an under performer.
October 4th 2012 @ 9:28am
mania said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
dexter – yeah your right but youre also disregarding my discalimer i said to ben in that i use the term relative to the oz stocks. in comparison to oz wingers he’s better than most.
yeah u are correct and i shouldnt have used the word vision and will instead steal your line and paraphrase – “he’s got an awesome work ethic and is a godd defender “
October 4th 2012 @ 7:34pm
Lorry said | October 4th 2012 @ 7:34pm | Report comment
bens
you’re out of your mind. Although he has been injured and, as a result of injuries, out of form lately, until very recently he was one of the best wingers in the world.
He has been in the top try scorers every world cup he has played and he has been one of the very best and most consistent wallabies in a dim period: 2005 onwards… (well, 2007 since he was regularly selected…)
he bulked up and fixed up his defensive weaknesses and high-ball issues. Also, he hasnt been turned in the tackle for years, unlike JOC etc. And he has much safer hands than Ioane.
you dont top score at world cups and score 30 tries for wallabies for nothing. Can anyone remember mitchell having a ‘try drought’ like so many other wingers?
The Wallabies badly need mitchell in top form.
I think they should turn him into a number 13.
October 5th 2012 @ 1:07am
Ben.S said | October 5th 2012 @ 1:07am | Report comment
If you want to see Mitchell fixing up his defensive weaknesses then check the three Tests against England in 2010 – his last full season. Total liability.
And as for WC top try scorers… So what? That’s skewed by the pool minnows. England were knocked out in the 2011 QFs and look how many tries Chris Ashton scored.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:00am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:00am | Report comment
Kane there were 22 injured before the match. If you look at an article by Greg Crowden in the past week he has a team of injured Wallabies, to which you can add several players he has ommitted. Of the top of my head there was Kepu, Moore, Palmer, Ma’afu, Horwill, Timani, Pocock, Palu, Mcalman, Genia, Cooper, Tomane, JOC, Vuna, Mitchell, Turner, Horne, Elsom, Vickerman plus potentials like Lealiifano and Sautia, but there are also others who I don’t remember. The definition doesn’t include the likes of Peter Hynes who haven’t played in years, but those who played within the last year. Then there were six more against South Africa.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:05am
Jiggles said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:05am | Report comment
Since we are including every single Australian Rugby player, you forgot to add Dallan Murphy into that list of who’s who…
October 4th 2012 @ 4:18am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:18am | Report comment
All played within the last year, a pretty decent qualification.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:47am
Red Kev said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:47am | Report comment
Bollocks.
Vickerman is retired not unavailable through injury.
Maafu, McCalman, Vuna, Horne, Elsom – none of these players are good enough (Elsom with the caveat of since 2010) to make the Wallaby team under anyone except the useless selector Robbie Deans.
Mitchell and Turner have been injured for almost 2 full years, MItchell was rushed back twice too fast, he is now in the Peter Hynes category – move on, they no longer count.
Tomane has one test.
Lealiifano and F’Sautia have zero tests.
October 4th 2012 @ 7:01am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 7:01am | Report comment
Hang on, Vickerman got injured this year badly. He is a Wallaby who got injured but had played within the last year.
That’s a list of the Wallabies injured, not a statement they should all start tests. Some are top internationals, some good, some average, some promising youngsters.
I didn’t include Lealiifano and Sautia in the list of injured Wallabies, but said they were promising newcomers who could have done well if injured.
The obvious point is that a mass of injuries damages not only established players, but potential too.
October 4th 2012 @ 8:30am
OOAAH said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Kpm are you Jon oneil in hiding? Your comments are rubbish.
October 4th 2012 @ 8:39am
Rusty said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Might want to add Vickerman is now working for KPMG – its pretty safe to assume he isnt part of your list
October 4th 2012 @ 8:45am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Rusty it’s pretty safe to say he is. A player who took part in the RWC last October and who was signed to the Waratahs and ARU in 2011 but then got injured, can safetly be said to have been a player lost to the Wallabies through injury.
October 4th 2012 @ 12:03pm
post said | October 4th 2012 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Vickerman wouldn’t be available regardless of injury, you’re really stretching to beef up the list here.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:36am
chris said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:36am | Report comment
Hmm, are you saying Ma’afu, Mcalman, Tomane, Vuna and Sautia should have been selected if they were available? As a South African supporter I really hope Dean agrees with you next year.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:46am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:46am | Report comment
Chris you choose some of the worst of those injured. But certainly Tomane, why don’t you like him? Sautia was actually injured in one of the opening rounds and so only played a few games. If he hadn’t been injured he would have had a whole Super season and given his talent, could well have been a Wallaby. Even the worst at least had experience. But it’s really the large number of good players or talented newcomers (Lealiifano, Tomane) who would have made the difference.
October 4th 2012 @ 7:57am
formeropenside said | October 4th 2012 @ 7:57am | Report comment
CFS is 18, and has played about 3 games of Super Rugby. He looks a great Queensland talent, and I look forward to seeing him in Red – and possibly Gold, too – for a long time. But to suggest he should be thrown into the Test team now is perhaps somewhat rash.
October 4th 2012 @ 8:12am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:12am | Report comment
fos he has played about 3 games of Super rugby because he was injured a few games into the season. He was on the Reds bench right at the beginning of the season.
So if he hadn’t been injured he wouldn’t have played only 3 games but a whole Super season. On top of that, JOC hadn’t even started a Super game at 18 when he made his debut for the Wallabies and Genia had only played three. So Sautia after a a full Super season wouldn’t have been so implausible given his talent.
But of course he got injured. Such is the Wallabies’ luck.
October 4th 2012 @ 8:22am
formeropenside said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:22am | Report comment
KPM,
Believe it or not, I am fairly on top of the Reds squad, and who was or was not injured. But to claim that had CFS – who was at school last year – been fit he would have been in the Reds best 22, at the start of the season is delusional.
It took a number of injuries – from memory, to Cooper, Lucas, Harris, A. Faingaa, Lance, Toua and Davies – before CFS got his shot, and then he pulled his hammy.
The way you are going, some 6 year old will be pulled out of the game by his mum after hurting himself and you would use that an excuse for Deans not having the cattle in 2025.
October 4th 2012 @ 8:44am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:44am | Report comment
??!!! Sautia was on the bench early in the season and then got injured. Who cares why he was in the Reds playing 22. He was and presumably would have made a similar impact to the one he later made, had he not got injured.
In any case if you’d bothered to read what I wrote instead of trying to claim I said things I didn’t, I only said he might have played for the Wallabies, not that he would, and in any case he wasn’t part of the wounded Wallabies list. For heaven’s sake.
October 4th 2012 @ 11:29am
El Gamba said | October 4th 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
KPM,
Unfortunately it is a ridiculous argument as the ONLY reason for the poor Wallabies performance and is grasping at straws.
There is no doubt that injuries have affected the Wallabies, as it does to all international teams, this season. Front line Wallabies or not, experience and pressure for positions are lost to the playing group.
As has been demonstrated on numerous other threads, and probably is below, injuries have affected SA and NZ also. To the extent of Australia given that there’s less depth within Australian rugby? Probably not however the injury front is far less of an ‘uneven playing field’ than you’re suggesting.
Even if it is the reason for poor performance as you suggest, it is hardly a mitigating factor for the management of the Wallabies (by JON, Nucifora, Deans etc.) If anything it shows extreme mismanagement that nothing has been done to:
a) Create systems to broaden the depth of Australian rugby (3rd tier, Australia A program, U20′s developement, national elite training structures etc etc)
b) Improve injury management and return to International Rugby plans with a number of players being rushed back into the side obviously underdone. This has resulted in a number of re-injuries.
c) Provide game plan contingencies along the lines of a base pattern or structure so that players coming through will always be able to pick up the basics rather than immediately have to learn, or be excluded from, complex pre-planned phase plays that therefore just end up being predictable and pedestrian.
And I’m sure there’s more points if anyone can assist! Einstein gave the definition of insanity as doing something the same and expecting different results (or something like that). If Einstein is right then I’ll let you connect the dots.
October 4th 2012 @ 11:44am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 11:44am | Report comment
El Gamba you have bunged Deans and the ARU hierarchy together as not having created third tier structures. (on a side note, not only does Australia have far less depth than its competitors, it has had far more injuries. Far more.)
I remind you that Deans asked in public for a national competition early in his time, knowing the consequences it would have for player depth and injuries, but the ARU did not introduce one.
And it is the Super franchises that have played unfit players and not rested them, not Deans.
The major factors are: the lack of quality in Australian rugby because of strong competition from the NRL and wholesale plundering of rugby’s schoolboy ranks by the NRL, the lack of enough Super teams to develop talent, the lack of a third tier to develop some talent at least. Deans is responsible for none of these: one has to say the ARU is.
October 4th 2012 @ 11:51am
El Gamba said | October 4th 2012 @ 11:51am | Report comment
KPM,
Unfortunately Deans is part of the management structure. I’m not saying he is responsible for those things nor am I saying it is fair.
October 4th 2012 @ 12:45pm
Jiggles said | October 4th 2012 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Matt Brandon is injured too, put him on the list!
October 5th 2012 @ 2:16am
lorry said | October 5th 2012 @ 2:16am | Report comment
Kpm
I agree with.mmany of your points, but I don’t get all this talk of league plundering school rugby ranks.
Can you or any others tell me who in the NRL went to a private school and played for the 1stXV?
Or are you referring to players from the few public, selective and ‘sports’ highs that play both league and union?
Please clarify this because I’ve heard it alot but never understood…
October 4th 2012 @ 3:55am
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 3:55am | Report comment
I must remember to use that as a justification in future…….Oh maybe I should use it this weekend, Coenie Oosthuizen, Bismarck du plessis, Schalk Burger, Heinrich brussow, Juan Smith , Pierre spies, Bjorn Basson, JP Pietersen, Frans Steyn and the loss of Gurthro Teenkamp, John Smit, Victor matfield, Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw, Fourie Du preez and Jaque Fourie.
KPM our team that ran out against OZ last weekend had 450 caps, of which five of the players had 300+ caps of which seven of the 22 are in their first season of international season
October 4th 2012 @ 3:59am
Kane said | October 4th 2012 @ 3:59am | Report comment
What’s wrong with Brussow? I thought he was just unwanted?
October 4th 2012 @ 4:07am
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:07am | Report comment
Brussow is out again, this time for six months, he just came back to the Currie Cup and goneagain.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:09am
Kane said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:09am | Report comment
Thanks I didn’t realise that
October 4th 2012 @ 3:59am
Jiggles said | October 4th 2012 @ 3:59am | Report comment
Rubbish!
You can only use that excuse if Robbie Deans is the coach!
October 4th 2012 @ 4:13am
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:13am | Report comment
unfair
October 4th 2012 @ 8:37am
Markus said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Now now, you just had 4 full years of being able to blame everything on Peter de Villiers.
It’s time to give another team a chance to make excuses
October 4th 2012 @ 8:40am
Rusty said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
gold
October 4th 2012 @ 9:27am
Dexter William said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
LOL
October 4th 2012 @ 4:19pm
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
Ja well, noone ever believed us.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:05am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:05am | Report comment
biltong South Africa have a share of injuries, but nowhere near as many as Australia.
Besides, many of the players you mention are not injured but retired or have moved overseas. Australia would like Luke Burgess to have covered for Will Genia and Hugh Mcmeniman never to have left as I’m sure South Africa would prefer Danie Roussouw and Jacques Fourie to be available. But those players aren’t injured. No one is saying Australia have ‘lost’ Burgess and Mcmeniman as justification.
The actual injured list is far, far smaller than Australia.
Crucially though South Africa has considerably more playing depth than Australia and so can deal with injuries and put out a strong XV even with them. With vastly less depth, Australia can only put out a skeleton with injuries on this scale.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:10am
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:10am | Report comment
KPm, my point is everyone has injuries, yes Australia has injuries, but 28 s just a number, whether players are injured, retired or unavailable the situation for us is just as rive, having 7 players in a matchday squad that is in their first season is just as challenging.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:20am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:20am | Report comment
That’s not the case when the injuries are on this scale. If South Africa had 28 unavailable, even with their superior depth it would need to be credited as a factor to the same degree as Australia.
It’s not just injuries everyone has. 28 is far more than that and the starting team at the moment is a pale shadow of what could be put on the field with even a normal nuber of injuries.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:23am
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:23am | Report comment
How many players were there in the Ustralian 22 that are rookies this season?
October 4th 2012 @ 4:27am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:27am | Report comment
Not the point and I assume you know it.
If you want a full explanation of the difference the injuries would have made see answer to Jiggles above.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:37am
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:37am | Report comment
KPM what was the nett effect on the matchday 22?
October 4th 2012 @ 5:13am
mania said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:13am | Report comment
the injuries suffered on the game alone must warrant some sympathy biltongbek. ioane, arguably their best player, aac one of the most experienced, barnes their goal kicker, samo an old man but on the day was leading the charge for a fight back. robinsons fake injury that cost them 2 subs.
who else was injured?
with the toll on the week end , the wounded list before the game and the total lack of depth in oz rugby you have to feel some anguish for them biltongbek.
SA has more than enough quality players to cover its horrific injury list, oz not so much
October 4th 2012 @ 5:18am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:18am | Report comment
You still have failed to list 28 actual players. It’s a pretty specific number, and it’s pretty vital to the entire debate.
October 4th 2012 @ 5:26am
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:26am | Report comment
mania, I am not disputing the fact that there are injuries, however it is as if KPm is neatingthe issues we had, itisn’t a settled Bok team at all, in our orwards we have a whole new backrow, brand new locks excepting Bekker, new hooker, new 10, new 13 and a halfback at wing.
The nett effect for the Boks are perhaps not as severe as Australia, but at the end of the day, pretty far from a setled bok outfit.
October 4th 2012 @ 5:35am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:35am | Report comment
biltong the answer to your question is contained within the post I referred you to.
I wasn’t actually trying to knock South Africa or their victory, but as you keep banging on about it, this was a much more depleted Australian team than the South African one, far more and the South African replacements are not as much weaker than the starters as the Australian replacements are. The real team would have been much stronger.
October 4th 2012 @ 5:39am
mania said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:39am | Report comment
biltongbek – are you trying to be modest? it doesnt work
boks have an awesome team of individuals at the moment. oz would be salivating to have a back up trio of vermuelen, alberts and louw.
i agree kpm is casually ignoring the boks injuries list but oz problems are light years worse than what the boks have got.
this bok team is awesome and can be great if the can get their team work going. last week i saw real good performances but they played as individuals. boks will give the AB’s a real hard test.
goosen if he fires will be deadly so hopefully the AB’s shut him down and make him have a shocker. the key to stopping goosen is putting pressure on pienaar, who i dont rate and am still wondering what he brings to the side.
and habana. wow is this guy peaking yet again in his career or what? a world XV winger and will go down in history as one of the greatest. better than chester? i think so. habana’s spirit is unstoppable. he totally schooled ioane last week and i’ve only seen digby get schooled once like that before and it was by nonu.
no biltongbek boks still have an awesome squad. oz, are a mess
October 4th 2012 @ 5:58am
darwin stubby said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:58am | Report comment
must be a massive burden being 100% correct every damn day of the week …
October 4th 2012 @ 6:01am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:01am | Report comment
Well you would know.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:10am
darwin stubby said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:10am | Report comment
no I wouldn’t because I’m often wrong … but you’ve been asked a pretty simple question numerous times by numerous posters … list the 28
October 4th 2012 @ 6:27am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:27am | Report comment
Wrong? The 19 I gave, Nic White, Jake Schatz, Ben Tapuai, Peter Hynes, the six from saturday. There’s 22 and there are probably others I forgot.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:42am
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:42am | Report comment
Mania, no mate.
Put Burger, Bismarck, Frans Steyn and JP Pietersen back in the team, then give it another 8 tests or so for the rookies to settle, find another front row , find a halfback and replace de Villiers and Kirchner and THEN we have a solid team
October 4th 2012 @ 6:55am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:55am | Report comment
I wish my bank manager had the same laissez fair attitude to numbers as you do, KPM… Yikes. Time to stop digging, eh.
October 4th 2012 @ 7:15am
mania said | October 4th 2012 @ 7:15am | Report comment
biltongbek – agree agree agree. cant wait for burger to come back and take up captaincy, fSteyn yes, JPP yes. i disagree tho, these additions would make it an even more solid team. the current team will give the AB’s a test match to remember. the only thing this team is missing at the moment is team work. if that clicks then i can see the AB’s being given a lesson
October 4th 2012 @ 11:37am
El Gamba said | October 4th 2012 @ 11:37am | Report comment
KPM,
I also twisted my ankle last night at touch so will have to add myself to the list of unavailable players.
This further strengthens your argument and should certainly NOW SILENCE the likes of biltongbek, formeropenside, Red Kev, Ben S and so on.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:15pm
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
El Gamba,
October 4th 2012 @ 5:07pm
El Gamba said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:07pm | Report comment
It bloody hurts biltongbek!
I’ll be right for next Wednesday
October 4th 2012 @ 9:52pm
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:52pm | Report comment
El Gamba, sorry to hear about your ankle mate, it must be sore.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:13am
Kane said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:13am | Report comment
I wish 28 injuries could explain why Saia Fainga’a is in the team, sadly he was there from the start.
October 4th 2012 @ 10:37am
Wal said | October 4th 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
I also think Naas Bothas Knees are giving him trouble too
October 4th 2012 @ 6:48am
Red Kev said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:48am | Report comment
The list of excuses you trot out to defend Robbie Deans is really quite pathetic KPM.
October 4th 2012 @ 7:06am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
As is your obsession with savaging with him. I’m not sure your worst enemy would command such attention.
October 4th 2012 @ 9:31am
Dexter William said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
I am sure that you call a Spade “something else.”
October 4th 2012 @ 3:21pm
AndyS said | October 4th 2012 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
I don’t know about the 28 players but there is no doubt that any team missing Moore, Horwill, Palu, Pocock, Genia, Cooper, AAC and O’Connor is going to be hurting, especially Australia where there is so little real depth. That is the first choice players right down the spine of the pack and the backline.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:18pm
biltongbek said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
There you go, Andy I agree with you on that.
October 4th 2012 @ 5:56pm
Melo-drama said | October 4th 2012 @ 5:56pm | Report comment
it should be kingplaymaker28, stop repeating your self KPM
October 4th 2012 @ 2:52am
depraved said | October 4th 2012 @ 2:52am | Report comment
Are all these injuries unlucky or do the wallabies just need toughening up?
October 4th 2012 @ 3:19am
Jiggles said | October 4th 2012 @ 3:19am | Report comment
A good summary of where things stand.
I remember watching the Reds at the start of the year and was rather annoyed with how the forwards played. It is no secret that the Reds, who can play conservative or with flair, need fast ball which means agression and accuracy at the break down. This was not happening. Later in the season they slowly got things together however it wasn’t to be.
I think Deans has shot himself in the foot really with how the Wallabies are playing. He has catered to his unfit favourites and decided to play a slower game in order to facilitate them. The forwards he picked aren’t good enough to play that slow and hence why we see what we are seeing.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:09am
ANON69 said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:09am | Report comment
I predicted before the RC started Wallabies do not deserve to be ranked 2. They should be somewhere around 6. It is becoming true. By the way I am no rugby pundit, watching rugby since 10 years old.
Until you get Deans kicked out you will be No 6.
October 4th 2012 @ 4:49am
HardData said | October 4th 2012 @ 4:49am | Report comment
Wallabies are currently confronting their version of Rugby Gallipoli.
And the bulk of the so called Australian supporters are “Roaring” hatred.
Apparently it is because of a foreign coach and a large number of foreign born players, coupled with hate for the administrative status quo.
Ridiculous thing is, this weeks team has never been more Australian in years!!!!
Really sums up why Australia do not deserve International competition…………
“They just cant accept, nor will support, not winning”
October 4th 2012 @ 6:38am
adsa said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:38am | Report comment
I do not buy into this 28 players injured,, it is the limp approach to the gain line that worries me.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:52am
Sailosi said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:52am | Report comment
The Wallabies should be ranked around 6,7 or 8. Anything in the top 5 is an incredible achievement.
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October 4th 2012 @ 6:59am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:59am | Report comment
How is it an incredible achievement? If we’re going on numbers then England, SA and France should always be in the top 4. On what basis should Wales and Ireland or Argentina be ahead of Australia?
October 4th 2012 @ 9:05am
Sailosi said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
I would consider the rugby set ups in these countries very similar to that of Australia, therefore with all things being relatively equal i would consider it an achievement to be reanked above these teams.
October 4th 2012 @ 11:19am
Ben.S said | October 4th 2012 @ 11:19am | Report comment
The Welsh regions are crippled financially and haven’t been playing in what is lauded as the best non-Test competition in the world since professionalism began. Same goes to Ireland minus the financial issues. Australia has been involved in the best set-up since professionalism began until the beginning of this season. Now that the Wallaby players are playing close to as many games as English players have had to for years they’re breaking down all over the place.
October 4th 2012 @ 6:55am
nickoldschool said | October 4th 2012 @ 6:55am | Report comment
True there has been many injuries in Oz rugby this year but most of these players had an average SR season anyway; not sure the Horne, Mitchell, Kepu etc would have done much better. We have seen them before and they were no stand out.
The only guy I really miss is Lealiifano who had a great SR season before getting injured. Same for JOC, he is a game winner. The most worrying thing for me is that many people have stagnated at SR and wallabies level and that the under 20 RWC campaign was pretty disappointing. Whether its the other who are catching up or Oz rugby which is stagnating, one thing is certain, the wallabies arent the stand out n2 country in the world. But it has been the case for a while although we couldnt see it on the irb rankings. Only blinkered wallabies supporters didnt see/accept that.
October 4th 2012 @ 7:02am
Chris said | October 4th 2012 @ 7:02am | Report comment
Funny how I didn’t hear the Deans/O’Neil cheersquad saying that the 2011 Tri Nations title was less legitimate because Australia was the only nation to play at full strength.
A test match is a test match. If Deans wants to use missing players to justify losses he should also credit opposition missing players if he wins. Otherwise is it just gross hypocrisy.
October 4th 2012 @ 8:14am
kingplaymaker said | October 4th 2012 @ 8:14am | Report comment
Chris I wouldn’t credit Australia with that Tri-nations victory, because as you say the other teams didn’t use full sides all the time.
October 4th 2012 @ 9:36am
Dexter William said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
KPM. Yes you did.
You mentioned the Tri-nation as RD achievement.
October 4th 2012 @ 1:16pm
GWS said | October 4th 2012 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Deans has to go but the 2011 Brisbane victory was against the top ab side
October 5th 2012 @ 2:54am
Saeed said | October 5th 2012 @ 2:54am | Report comment
No Kaino. Sounds small, but he was a difference maker. Best All Black of 2011.