Five more things about Australian rugby
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The culmination of the inaugural Rugby Championship provides us with the perfect opportunity to take a long, hard look at the state of Australian rugby.
1. Australia doesn’t have a good team at present
What I mean is that Australia has been blessed a few times during the past three decades with great teams, or with great players who were able to make average teams good.
Just like the current Australian cricket team is nowhere near the class of those with Warne and McGrath, so the current group of rugby players isn’t as talented as – or, perhaps, is unable to combine their talents as well as – some of their predecessors.
This seems pretty normal to me. As fans, we can’t reasonably expect that the team will always be winning: even New Zealand had some ordinary teams during the late 1990s.
2. Australia took too long to get its coaching setup right
Leaving aside whether or not Robbie Deans is a good coach or the right coach, my view is that we took too long to provide him and the team with the right setup. I think that one of the reasons New Zealand did so well over the past eight years was that they had three very experienced coaches working as a team.
Until Tony McGahan started this year, Deans chose, or had foisted upon him, a succession of inexperienced assistants, few of whom had a record of success and none of whom had any experience in charge of a team. David Nucifora was an exception but his role and influence is unclear, except in 2011 when he started to appear in the coaching box, initially at the back then closer and closer to the centre.
Coaching is more than a one-man job, so getting the right team is critical (remember how important John Muggleton was to Rod Macqueen’s success). Look at the difference Andrew Blades has made this year to the consistency of the Wallabies scrum.
And remember that he could have been coaching the Australian pack for a long time: he started working with Eddie Jones in 2004 and resigned within months because Jones was so difficult to work with. How his appointment could have changed things…
3. John O’Neill needs to focus on his ARU job or quit
Even more than the coach, JON is a divisive figure. I think history will judge him favourably: despite some elements of luck with timing, he’s been successful as the chief administrator in two major sports. Few other executives have a comparable record.
But his focus has shifted. In recent years he’s begun to take on external commitments that are taking up more of his time and energy. Anyone who’s followed James Packer’s attempt to take over the casino in Sydney will know things have been very messy at his target, Echo Entertainment. The independent directors forced the previous chairman to resign and installed one of their own to replace him.
According to media reports, the new chairman, who subsequently forced out the CEO, “is not known for being hands off.” His name? John O’Neill.
Now, maybe it’s a good thing JON’s energies are devoted elsewhere but compare his extra-ARU commitments with those of Andrew Demetriou, or David Gallop when he ran the NRL. My impression is that he’s just hanging on to his ARU job until the Lions tour, hoping to relive the glory days of 2001.
4. Mental fatigue is an issue
Most attention is given to the physical demands of the ridiculously long season but I think mental fatigue is also an issue. For example, I think Adam Ashley-Cooper has shown himself, yet again, to be one of Australia’s best performers, certainly a reliable and tough defender. But try to remember when he last played consistently well in Super Rugby. I might be wrong, but I think that’s a sign of mental fatigue.
5. The team and the coach have a mental problem playing New Zealand
To be fair, every team except South Africa has a poor record against New Zealand in recent times, and South Africa’s record is not good, just a bit better than every other team’s. Playing New Zealand has always been tough. But too often the team looks like it doesn’t really believe it can win.
And so often the New Zealand coaches have devised some variation that has left Robbie Deans –and the team – looking bereft of ideas about how to respond.
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October 9th 2012 @ 2:58am
Ben.S said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:58am | Report comment
1. The 1999 WC side had comparatively mediocre Test players in it too, as did the 2001 Lions side. Think Nick Stiles, Michael Foley, Fletcher Dyson, Glenn Panaho, Matt Cockbain, Mark Connors, Brett Robinson, Nathan Grey etc. But both sides were innovative and did the basics very well. Even a celebrated Wallaby like Dan Herbert had limitations to his game. I think that currently Australian rugby has some very, very good players.
2. I was under the impression that McGahan was foisted upon Deans too, which kind of suggested a lack of confidence in him from the ARU. Did Deans pick Blades?
4. To be fair to AAC how many Waratahs players shone this season?
October 9th 2012 @ 9:13am
sheek said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
Ben.S,
Some Wallabies fans, if you’ll excuse me for saying so, confuse potential with performance.
I’ve been howled down for suggesting Deans hasn’t had the cattle. But for the anti-Deans brigade it was easier to blame the coach rather than the players. Or the system (which is also at fault).
There are Wallabies who might become great players, but at present they are demonstrating their talents inconsistently.Pocock, Genia, Beale, O’Connor, Horwill, Ioane, etc have failed to display a consistently high standard in their careers to date. It might come, it might not.
Performance is the criteria, not potential. If there is a criticism of Deans, he hasn’t been able to realise this potential into performance quickly enough.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:24am
Red Kev said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
I have lost count of the number of times that I have posted “the only metric that matters when evaluating a coach is does he get the best out of the players available to him, Deans has clearly failed to do this with the Wallabies”.
The rest (ARU governance, injuries, world ranking) is nothing but noise in the evaluation of what is currently a very poor Wallaby coach.
October 9th 2012 @ 5:01pm
AndyS said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
I would slightly disagree. I would have said that the metric for a coach is whether he gets the best out of the team and allows players to get the best out of themselves. Someone like Quade might usefully note that that does not mean they can play their own game plan in isolation from everyone else, but they play the team plan to the absolute best of their ability.
October 9th 2012 @ 6:26pm
GWS said | October 9th 2012 @ 6:26pm | Report comment
Don’t assume there is a plan
October 13th 2012 @ 12:42am
Ra said | October 13th 2012 @ 12:42am | Report comment
Yeah I disagree with you red, he did get the best out of the players. They all gave their 100. They always gave their 100. Only a few times that 100 wasn’t enough. So don’t be so hard on yourselves. Second in the world in front of some pretty top nations ain’t too bad.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:32am
Ben.S said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Very few players display consistency in Test rugby, tbf, sheek, but I’d argue that Pocock, Genia, Beale, O’Connor and Ioane have all, at some point over the past two seasons, displayed enough talent to be considered in the top 3 in the world in their positions at that juncture. Pocock, Genia and Ioane would still arguably be in the top 3 in the world ATM IMO.
October 9th 2012 @ 7:45pm
soapit said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:45pm | Report comment
sheek, the fact that they have been able to occasionally play very well, but not consistently suggests the cattle could be there and are not delivering close to their peak ofen enough.
October 11th 2012 @ 9:25am
Mike said | October 11th 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Good point Sheek. Until we are prepared to look seriously at all the issues, we will keep performing at much the same level we have reached over the last 10 years, or perhaps even worse because our opponents are not standing still.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:22pm
Albo said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
My gosh Ben, how much I’d love to see Nathan Grey in the centres for Australia right now. Now that’s mongrel.
October 9th 2012 @ 7:46pm
soapit said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
not sure what weaknesses herbert had. he was good enough to keep little and a young mortlock out on the wing. fantastic all round player.
October 9th 2012 @ 10:28pm
Ben.S said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:28pm | Report comment
His distribution wasn’t all that, and he couldn’t kick. Big lad, great defender… I’d take Mortlock over him all day long.
October 10th 2012 @ 8:37am
soapit said | October 10th 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
disagree on his hands. couldnt have kept his place if he’d been bombing opportunities with those two in the wings. agree he didnt have much of a kick as far as i kknow but not sure thats a particular negative for an outside centre.
October 10th 2012 @ 10:40pm
Ben.S said | October 10th 2012 @ 10:40pm | Report comment
It’s not like he couldn’t pass, but he certainly wasn’t a world class distributor. Anyway, Mortlock was playing wing when Herbert was coming to the end of his career.
October 9th 2012 @ 5:55am
Matt said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:55am | Report comment
I think Australian Rugby is far better off than most people think. Deans is still a good coach, I mean look at his record.
The Wallabies also still have plenty of players who are world class. Beale, O’Connor, Ioane, Cooper, Genia, Pocock, Horwill etc are guys who deserve to be considered as some of the worlds best. People migth dislike some of these guys and from the comfort of their couch at home call them arrogant or lazy or mentally weak or whatever they like, but the truth is that of the thousands of rugby players around the world these young guys would also be in the Top 3-5 in their respective positions. Some would even argue they are THE best in their positions.
Australia has the Lions tour next season, which will give the game a much needed publicity boost. There’s nothing that quite catches peoples attention like a mob enjoying itself. Not only will the Lions fans spread the goodwill and excitement of a genuine rugby tour, but they’ll also pump millions of dollars into the local economies and importantly into Australian Rugby.
On top of that you now have 5 professional rugby sides providing opportunities for players to prepare for test match rugby. All 5 teams look stronger and more stable this season than last. The Tahs have a new head coach with plenty of experience, local nous and a hard nosed attitude. The Reds will get many of their key stars back from lengthy injury refreshed and ready. The young Brumbies have another offseason of Jake White’s training and shrewd recruitment. The Rebels have added a stack of young talent to an already young and talented roster. And the Force finally have a stable coaching platform and some key signings to build a solid foundation for their future.
2012 has been the year from hell for Australian Rugby. So many of the best players have been injured and the Wallabies have had to to dig deep to fight off the bad press and negativity. But they have emerged with a whole lot more knowledge about their depth than before. All of these youngsters, like Timani, Hooper, Tapuai, Douglas and Shipperley got vital game time in the world toughest rugby tournament. They will all return to their franchises after the NH tour to share their knowledge and provide better depth to Australian rugby. Depth has ALWAYS been an issue, an achilles heel even, where you only had to scratch below the thin surface of a handful of stars to find a hollow interior. To remedy this issue Australian rugby has had to suffer weaker Super Rugby expansion sides and a nightmarish test schedule. But it will emergy stronger and 2013 could be a really exciting year.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:26am
JoeFox said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Its no wonder the Wallabies get injured when they train 5 hours a day
October 9th 2012 @ 9:23am
sheek said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
The problem Matt,
Is that Australian rugby is reactive, & always seems to be playing catch-up. For example, in 1996, the ARU introduced the Brumbies, which was great. But by 2003 it was obvious we needed another province.
In 2006, the ARU introduced the Force, which was great. But by 2008 it was obvious we needed another province. In 2011, the ARU introduced the Rebels, which was great.
But now we need a bridging tier between premier rugby & super rugby, because the gulf between fully professional players & semi-professional players, has become too great.
I can’t think of a country in a code anywhere in the world that is strong without a viable national domestic comp.
Okay, in football, there is plenty of cross-border transfers. But the traditional powerhouses are the same because they generally have the best national domestic comps. They are producing players of a particularly high standard at regular intervals.
Argentina is now in the Rugby Championship. They DO have a domestic comp. Several in fact. They are an untapped resource. They will develop quickly from their exposure in the RC.
Yes, Australian rugby might look good, might I say, for now. But are our domestic structures set-up to capitalise on the rugby landscape of 2016? Or 2020? Or 2025?
October 9th 2012 @ 9:29am
kingplaymaker said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
sheek if at the last TV deal two and not one team had been introduced, and much more heavily strengthened by NRL players/imports, that would make 6. If at the next one two more were introduced, again and I reiterate this with extreme intensity, heavily strengthened by NRL converts/imports (as the Force and Rebels foolishly haven’t been), then that would make 8 in 2015. Ok that’s not too many, but the phase after that with 10 teams would start to be quite a lot.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:59am
formeropenside said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
We have too many teams diluting talent, not too few.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:55pm
sheek said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
FOS,
Australian rugby is certainly in a bind. I agree at super rugby level the talent is spread thin.
But its also necessary to develop the game nationally. And we really need to have something to attract young kids to our game, as opposed to AFL, NRL & A-League.
At present, we are losing the public relations exercise big time.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:06pm
Johnno said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
sheek that talant thinning could be helped if more mports were allowed, like french rugby. You have said many time before you don’t want many imports and don’t care if that is viewed as xenophobic, and don’t care watching less talented locals. NRL allow lots of kiwi imports and now english,fijian,samoa,tongan imports.
Imports would certainly help super rugby be a better standard a true club comp of depth not a mickey mosue development comp but a comp without he bees players in the world.
October 9th 2012 @ 5:09pm
AndyS said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:09pm | Report comment
Actually FOS, I would have said we have both. We currently have too many teams diluting the talent, specifically because we had too few teams in the past developing talent. I would agree with Sheek, except that I think it actually went along the lines that introducing the Brumbies was great but by 2003 it was obvious we needed another province. So we should have started an ARC then, so that there would have been a much wider pool of near-ready players (including WA locals) when they introduced the Force in 2006. That pool would then have replenished by 2011 when they then introduced the Rebels.
You would have thought competent managers might have been able to plan for growth like that when flush with RWC funds, but apparently not. Nothing we can do about it now, but we still need the bridging tier and don’t have it and any future expansion is unlikely to be any less painful.
October 9th 2012 @ 7:47pm
soapit said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
but if we want that talent to eventually develop we’ll have to put up with the short term pain for now
October 11th 2012 @ 9:30am
Mike said | October 11th 2012 @ 9:30am | Report comment
That hits the nail on the head. Even if it were viable to get rid of S15 (I don’t think it is, for a number of reasons) it provides an effective 2nd tier for us.
Its true that we currently don’t have the 3rd tier or junior development paths to properly feed the 2nd tier. But that just means that we need to focus on getting them, as soon as possible.
With the ARU co-ordinating junior development paths and a 3rd tier comp (or comps, if it can only be done by State) and feeding into the five S15 teams, we should be in a good position to match it with anyone else in the world in the next few years, including the ABs.
October 9th 2012 @ 7:58pm
Matt said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
Sheek, I actually think JON is doing exactly what he’s being paid for and I actually admire him keeping his mouth shut when slander and the bad press drums start beating. I think he made the correct PRO-ACTIVE call to prime Deans to take on the Wallabies job. I think he was very pro-active in making that recruitment at a time when the Australian coaching stocks were VERY low. Since then you’ve seen Cheika and McKenzie move back to Australia as well as Jake White signing on. Not to mention MacQueen coming out of virtual retirement to get the Rebels underway.
No one here can deny that those coaching appointments have seen the quality of Australian coaching stock rise dramatically from late 2008 when you had Chris Hickey, Phil Mooney, Andy Friend and John Mitchell. That was when Deans first took over.
O’Neill also worked VERY hard to get Super Rugby changed to a conference style format. This has given Australian rugby a psuedo domestic competition for the first time. It is no suprise that Rugby now has it’s best ever national presence across the nation and that TV and live attendances are higher than ever because of this. I think this was also a very pro-active move to create a better long term situation for the game.
And of course the hand inside that expansion/conference glove was the Rebels, which O’Neill championed even prior to expansion. He realised there was a market there and that long term Australia will need more professional sides if it is to produce enough talent and offer enough full-time careers to aspiring athletes. Again I believe this a pro-active.
You can say the ARU was reactive in creating the Brumbies and Force, but the claims that Australia can’t sustain 5 teams surely suggests that this time the ARU has pushed ahead with the future in mind, not the present.
Australians argue that a bridging tier is needed and that is probably true. But in this case O’Neill has proactively secured the 15th side for Australian players and fans, which can then start to generate game time and financial opportunity for young players.
The Currie Cup and ITM Cup are definitely not without their problems. In fact I imagine that if not for their heritage (ie if these competitions were in fact start ups like the ARC was) that the NZRU and SARU would probably have scrapped them by now. O’Neill has realised that the future is a single professional competition, with a larger domestic footprint and a full season long caledar. That is what Super Rugby now is and it will only continue to move towards more localised domestic/derby matches in the future.
If you want to complain about the ARU not being pro-active then you need to wait and judge the results in 4-5 years time when the benefits of the pro-active expansion are realised. It’s like investing a stack of money and then immediately complaining because you have less money now. It takes times, but I believe it will happen; Australian rugby will have more depth of talent than ever before.
October 9th 2012 @ 7:41am
tc said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Matt
You are absolutly correct ,there was going to be some pain when expansion happened and it may continue off and on but overall Australian rugby is flourishing ,and may I say in new markets ,you can’t look at it on a year to year basis ,but you have to look at it from the stand point of when the game went pro .I don’t care what anyone says Australian rugby has grown exponentially on a national basis , back before the game was pro you had club rugby and the odd interstate game then the Wallabies ,now look.
I read on here from some of those writng in that Sydney clubland is in deep trouble ,but in some ways this might end up being the catalyst for the introduction of an NPC type of competition ,the future is bright for rugby in Australia people just have to be patient and not get stuck on the idea that rugby should be the national winter sport of Australia .
On the international scene rugby is exploding, Hungary just played Bulgaria in a World Cup qualifier in Budapest and drew a crowd of between 2 and 3 thousand and the president who is an old rugby player said they are going to commit to the growth of rugby at the state level. New provincial comps are starting up all over the place ,and New Zealands provincial unions are getting calls from all over the world to help them with there Olympic 7s programs . The English are saying that the IRB will take away a war chest of 1/4 of a billion dollars from the 2015 World Cup and that more than half will be spent on the lower tiers of rugby around the world.
And as for pro rugby I can see Super Rugby going to six teams per conference ,and maybe one or two whole new conferences coming in in the not to distant future . BRING ON 2016.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:27am
hog said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Just an observation regards Jon O’neill, he appears to be fairly low key with few public appearances regards rugby, which differs from some more high profile ceo’s of the other major codes, that leads to the perception that he lacks interest sometimes.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:38am
Who Needs Melon said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Hog, I don’t think he was like that during his first tenure. I’m sure he is “interested” but I don’t think he feels like he has skin in the game like he did last time.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:36am
sixo_clock said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:36am | Report comment
We have the talent to make a better fist of international rugby. We also have some semblance of depth when, despite 28 injured, we’re still winning tests, still scoring against the best except for one blip.
What we are working toward is a build-up of the work-rate in every position. The incorrect notion of ‘Wallaby Rugby’ is being challenged by a concept that if the players are busy, physically, mentally and vocally then they give themselves a better chance. Rugby is a complete test of all of a players efforts. Getting through an institutional demarcation dispute has proven to be DIngo’s biggest hurdle. Especially the front rowers who might feel they are there, in the side, for the all-important scrummaging duties only. If only we had more Hoopers to energise ourselves into contention. When all positions are in fully active status then… and only then.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:02pm
Shop said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Agree with what you say but can we all stop throwing about this “28 injured’ players figure about. Yes, we’ve had injuries but to make 28, there are guys who have played little or no international rugby at all included.
I think the injury toll has been a positve anyway because guys like Cummins, Shipperly and Tapui finally got a run. God knows they would never have been picked by Deans otherwise.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:46am
JeffRo said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Does Australia have a good team? That would depend on your expectations. For most rugby people/nations in the world, being 2nd in the world would be considered good. Australian rugby has a fair bit in common with NZ cricket (but more successful) in how the teams are judged and what is expected.
Over time NZ cricket has been… not that great, but a golden period through the 80′s reset the expectations and we are all waiting, expecting the Blackcaps to reach that level again. Aussie rugby had a period through the 90′s into this century that has set expectations, where beating the boks and being 2nd in the world is considered “crisis” by some.
For me, as a Kiwi, trying to be objective, the question I personally think about is, this expectation is it valid? Does it help or hinder Australian rugby? Is it realistic?
And just to clarify, I don’t think the Wallabies should aim for losing to the All Blacks, but equally does it help to be in the current position and feel like the coach should be sacked and team is poor, when historically this would be considered a very good result.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:55am
Red Kev said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Point 2 is incorrect in the description.
Deans lost out on the ABs job because he didn’t have any assisstants lined up, Henry did. When he started at the Wallabies he didn’t bring any assistants with him either. He gets assistants installed because he doesn’t look after the job himself, even at the RWC no-one was tasked with coaching breakdown work, it was “sort of everyone’s responsibility” which is why Nucifora got stuck in there.
The coaching system is not right because the head coach is not doing his job. All the responsibility for assistants rests with the office of the head coach.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:27am
chuck said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Robbie Deans assistants are selected by the A.R.U. not by the head coach unlike N.Z.they select their own coaching staff except the manager who is selected by the N.Z.R.U. by the way Robbie Deans did have his coaching selection in place before applying for the all black head coach that was not the reason he was rejected.
Graham Henry had political forces in house (N.Z.R.U.) too get him across the line .
October 9th 2012 @ 9:35am
Red Kev said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
They are selected by the ARU because Deans didn’t select any. If Deans went into his contract negotiation and said “I want to select my own staff” it would be rubber stamped. He didn’t.
I believe Deans is a technician not a manager and unfortunatley head coaching is more about management than technical skills.
October 9th 2012 @ 10:26am
chuck said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Its A.R.U. policy to select assistant coaches Deans had his staff in place and one was a kiwi and was told no
October 9th 2012 @ 10:26am
chuck said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Its A.R.U. policy to select assistant coaches Deans had his staff in place and one was a kiwi and was told no
October 9th 2012 @ 10:36am
Red Kev said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Not according to any of the news reports I’ve read. ARU would certainly have approval of appointments though (as does NZRU and SARU and the RFU in England).
October 9th 2012 @ 9:39am
Johnno said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
We need a 3rd tier no question. But now cracks are starting to appear in both the currie cup and iTM cup.
Some of the small ITM cup teams are getting thrashed now eg Southland lost 84-0 to cantebury. Now that can’t be good. Crowds and tv ratings are down in ITM cup.
Currie cup too has been down on crowds and tv ratings, and now squabbling in currie cup about letting or not allowing books to play.
We need a 3rd tier but we have to get it done right. Ultimatley i want South Africa kicked out, and we go solo with a few kiwi teams like in the NRL. You only need 3 kiwi teams and they can morph into OZ as little brother and we have flexible import rules like the NRL with aussies/kiwis going between teams and have about 16 teams.
Depth of aussy rugby to just beat NZ school boys with mostly private school talant is a good effort. It shows our potential if we expanded more. However what would be interesting would be matches between say hypothetically Australia schoolboy 3rd 15 or 5th 15 VS NZ 3rd or 5th 15.
I think NZ schools still have more depth like if the senior team get injuries.
Blades has been good coach very good scrummaging coach.
October 9th 2012 @ 10:51am
JeffRo said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Three kiwi teams and be the little brother? Wouldn’t you get sick of the 3 kiwi teams get 1st, 2nd and 3rd?? You would be better off with only 1 Kiwi team so at least an Aussie team could play in a final.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:38am
nk7792 said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:38am | Report comment
The three kiwi teams as little brother, like the NRL? The main problem is that rugby isn’t league. JeffRo put it nicely. If anything we need the NZRU propping up the ARU and it’s domestic set-up.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:50am
Johnno said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:50am | Report comment
DO the maths like in the NRL 22 million over little NZ 4.5 million is a mismatch advantage OZ big time. So as rugby is a pro sport we have to follow the money.
Guys I red the worst article ever on rugby expansion by ex AB Taime Randell. He was knocking the Rebels coming into super rugby and wanted a Pacific islands team. I just thought what the.
Melbourne 4.5 million a global city , a heavily totally urbanised city, over putting a team in Tonga with 110,000 people . i mean do the match and economics no contest.
And as with the ITM cup being so great, Southland are struggling big time. how the ITM cup can justify keeping tiny little full time pro southland in 2012 after getting hammered 84-0 by canterbury and thrash don the weekend by another team too.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/super-rugby-expansion-has-hurt-the-wallabies-20121007-276vs.html
October 9th 2012 @ 12:14pm
JeffRo said | October 9th 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
Tanie, is his name. The ITM cup teams are semi-pro. The super players and maybe a few others are fulltime pros, the rest play club rugby and hold jobs.
The ITM cup is what it is now, which is a different beast to the days before pro rugby. More people watch ITM cup now than in days gone by, because all matches are televised. But as it isn’t the level below international, All Blacks don’t play much at all. But as a long time follower of the ITM cup, I think we are heading, generally in the right direction, by setting the conditions to get selected for Super rugby that allow teams like Southland, Counties, Hawkes Bay etc to retain their top young talent.
As for Southlands thrashing… nothing new in NZ rugby, the mid strength NPC teams, have their good and bad times. Happened in the old days as well.
Johnno you do the maths. Super rugby is the level, or product if you like, that NZ exploits Aussie and SA larger populations to finance what seems to be a very successful rugby nation.
And how do we measure success? Bank balance? Or by a healthy number of people enjoying the game, by playing or supporting. I still think the latter.
October 9th 2012 @ 12:19pm
Johnno said | October 9th 2012 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Bank Balance. Jeffro that is the only thing that counts in pro sports. ANd for the players. If you think players don’t worship the almighty dollar or value bankbalance then you are naive. Think SBW in Japan, Jerome Kaino in Japan both could be in the AB’S team now. Carl Hayman before that , steve donald, and now Ma Nonu thinking of leaving.
October 9th 2012 @ 12:34pm
JeffRo said | October 9th 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Look a little deeper…
SBW has gone, but.. never mind. The bank balance needs to be managed professionally, to help players and supporters enjoy the game. As for the players only 1 in 1000 or less are pro and play for money the rest play for fun.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:38pm
all7days said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Cracks appearing in the ITM cup. I think you’ll find its the most competitive its ever been. Sure there are blow outs, but look at Taranaki. Tasman and counties. They’re all moving it with the big boys.
October 11th 2012 @ 9:39am
Mike said | October 11th 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
I don’t know what the solution is for our 3rd tier, but there will be one and we need to find it and put it in place. I am sure we can learn from ITM and Currie cups, but our solution will be uniquely Australian because conditions are not the same here as in NZ and SA. We have to contend with much longer distances, and major competitive codes in NRL and AFL. But those are just obstacles to be overcome.
I don’t know if our best solution is a national comp like the defunct ARC, or perhaps thoroughly revamping the existing club comps in each State under central guidance by ARU. Or perhaps a hybrid where each state plays its own conference followed by a national titles series.
And the money must be part of the plan. TV rights will have to be negotiated separately to S15, and must include presence on Free to Air TV.
All of this has to be considerd in terms of how players will move from the younger grades into the 3rd tier, and from the 3rd tier to S15.
And finally, it must be built to last. S15 is clearly here to stay, so players and administrators have some certainty going forward – in the same way, our 3rd tier comp must be a permanent fixture, or we will not reap the long-term benefits from it.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:30am
frisky said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:30am | Report comment
#1 = great
#2= very good
#3 = prettty good
#4=good
#5 = not bad
#6 = satisfactory
#7 = promising
#8 = eager to break into top ranks.
Am I being too simplistic? What gives some Aussies the the right to assume that if thy are not #1, it is a tragedy, something approaching shame. An “aussie, aussie uber alles” mentality.
October 9th 2012 @ 12:01pm
formeropenside said | October 9th 2012 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
Because if you dont aim to be the best, you wont be.