Postecoglou and Victory fans must be patient
By Vince Rugari, 9 Oct 2012 Vince Rugari is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- A-League, Ange Postecoglou, Brisbane Roar, football, Melbourne Victory
A-League's most successful coach, Ange Postecoglou. (AAP Image/Julian Smith)
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Rome wasn’t built in a day. Neither was the all-conquering Brisbane Roar. And it will be exactly the same for Ange Postecoglou’s new pet project, Melbourne Victory.
Friday night’s 2-1 derby loss to Melbourne Heart was a rude way to start the season as Victory struggled with all the new elements that come with their coach’s trademark style – playing out from the back, holding onto the ball and moving it, quickly but efficiently.
But by no means should it be a surprise. Which is precisely why it was so strange that it seemed to be one to Postecoglou himself – at least judging by his post-match remarks, that the side wasn’t rebuilding and that they ‘should’ve been ready’.
Perhaps he underestimated the task at hand. Maybe he overestimated the speed at which he can turn footballing coal into gold.
Or perhaps he has simply forgotten how his time at Brisbane really began.
It’s quite easy to gloss over his first 10 months in charge of the Roar because of what followed – two championships and a premiership – but it is important to understand just what it took and how long it took them to get them to the top.
He began that post in October 2009, after Frank Farina was unceremoniously booted. What followed were weeks upon weeks of teething problems as Postecoglou tore through his new squad to nut out which players suited his philosophy and which ones didn’t.
Liam Reddy, Craig Moore, Bob Malcolm and Charlie Miller were shown the door. Tommy Oar, Michael Zullo and Adam Sarota were sold. Sergio van Dijk set sail for Adelaide. But a lot of players who would take part in Brisbane’s future success were still there, and learning.
Brisbane ended the 2009-2010 campaign by losing five of their last seven games, finishing up just one point away from the wooden spoon and looking absolutely nothing like the team they would eventually become.
Postecoglou then had mountains of salary cap space and a full, six-month off-season to not only fill the vacancies, but to drill into the newcomers exactly what would be required of them.
Amidst all this, he stressed his team was under construction and that he should be given one full year before his work was properly judged.
On evidence of Victory’s first-up loss, he might again require a similar moratorium of assessment.
There were some amazing glimpses of quality in the final third. If there was any doubt, Marcos Flores still has that magical game-breaking ability that endeared him to the fans of Adelaide United.
His pass that released Archie Thompson, who in turn laid on the cross for Marco Rojas to score Victory’s breathtaking goal, was something to behold. As was his combination and improvisation work with his new teammates.
But by Flores’ own admission, he is a 70 minute player. Reds fans will say he always has been. Of the 29 starts he made for United in the 2010-2011 season, he failed to complete a full match on 17 occasions. That’s an awful lot for such a key man.
In turn, this means more will be asked of Guilherme Finkler, who probably just earned a pass mark for his debut performance.
Add in the fact that Postecoglou’s first substitution was Danny Allsopp, who struggled with the mobility and invention required to participate in such a flexible system, and all of a sudden it becomes clear that there are other, secondary combinations that need time to settle.
What needs work the most, however, is the defence – and more specifically, how it copes with the sort of immense pressure put on them by the Heart.
Postecoglou never had to plot against this level of incessant pressing in his first full season with Brisbane. At the time, their disciplined, possession-heavy brand of football was so new it was nearly a novelty in A-League terms.
But the competition has matured since then. After two years of Roar domination, other teams have started to do their homework – and the blueprint that worked against them last season needs only minor tweaking for it to cause Victory all sorts of trouble.
He still hasn’t quite figured it out.
It didn’t help that Jonathan Bru and Leigh Broxham didn’t support the back four enough by getting into positions to receive simple passes from defence. Overall, though, Melbourne’s rearguard never looked comfortable in possession.
Their apprehension allowed Heart to win the ball and then break quickly with long, direct balls into channels of space for wingers David Williams and Mate Dugandzic to run onto.
Fullbacks Matthew Foschini and Adama Traore also had a tough first outing under Postecoglou. It’s harsh to ride Traore – he is still only 22 years old and is a player of considerable promise – but he was not brought in by this coach.
He was snapped up by Jim Magilton when the Gold Coast United firesale first began, and was lured to Melbourne with a two-year deal. He’s also a visa player – which means with few other options, Postecoglou has to use him even though, ideally, he might prefer someone better suited to his plans.
If the coach irons out the creases in his game, Traore can become the best left fullback in the competition. But as we saw on Friday night, there is a long way to go.
The Ivorian flyer instinctively goes on bold, marauding runs from deep in defence, using his pace and strength to get into better positions. That’s fine when it works, but when he loses the ball halfway up the pitch against a team intent on counter-attacking, it puts his teammates in strife – this is precisely how Heart scored their first goal.
For all his attacking thrust he looms as a chink in the armour. But he is an unfinished player in an unfinished team.
And that’s the point – Melbourne Victory are an unfinished team. They have the best coach in the A-League, sure, but in the space of just a few short months he has staged a revolution in a football department that, not all that long ago, was completely and utterly dysfunctional.
For it all to gel together – and don’t worry, from the good bits of Friday night, it was clear that it will – then Postecoglou needs a bit more time. The Victory faithful should afford it to him, and let him do his work.
Vince Rugari is an Adelaide-born journalist who cut his teeth on the sporting graveyard that is the Gold Coast. He fancies the round ball and the Sherrin, and used to be a handy leg-spin bowler before injury curtailed a baggy green push. He is a Port Adelaide fan by birth, as painful as that has been recently. He's now sports editor of The Area News in Griffith, NSW.
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- Explore:
- A-League, Ange Postecoglou, Brisbane Roar, football, Melbourne Victory


October 9th 2012 @ 9:05am
cruyff turn said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Good analysis, Vince! Certainly Postecoglou will need more time to get the Victory playing the way he wants.
Regarding Traore, I think Ange would’ve snapped him up anyway had he been clubless. The boy has the ability to be the best left-back in the comp, like you say, and a coach like AP could make him play a little smarter, when to attack and when to stay back. But the potential is there.
For me, Foschini is the real weak link. He offers nothing in attack, and his decision-making is poor. I remember one particular incident when he had his head down, and then made a short pass to a guy who was miles offside. Just dumb and clueless! They need another option at right-back.
October 10th 2012 @ 12:25am
Parrot said | October 10th 2012 @ 12:25am | Report comment
Sack the bludger and pack him back to Queensland!
They had 6 months to sort the defense out and it was a complete rabble.
October 10th 2012 @ 10:03am
Ian said | October 10th 2012 @ 10:03am | Report comment
he won’t be let across the border.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:27am
Roger said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Yes, completely agree. Melbourne is a work in progress, and there is still lots to do.
But, finally….. finally we have a coach who actually gets the players to pass from the back, and play a passing game – rather than just talk about it. Oh yes there is work to do,but you can see the plan there.
And the sooner we get our defence sorted, the better off we will be.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:00am
Seven Nation Army said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
No No No! This is the derby! Do you think MV fans have patience when it comes to these games? I’m sorry but he knows he doesn’t have the luxury of time that he had at Brisbane. No disrespect to the Roar but MVFC is a far bigger and more demanding club.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:27am
Vince Rugari said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Why hire him then, if you’re not going to allow him the time to make it work? This isn’t just rebuilding for one championship in the future – this is completely changing the philosophy of the club in the long term so that when he eventually goes, Ange has someone there to carry the torch and a supporter base and club that knows exactly what football they demand is played. A big club like Victory should play the best football, not chop and change like in years past.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:56pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Teams/supporters can “demand” as much success as they want, if you chop and change managers/coaches at the drop of a hat you will enter a downward spiral and you will not like the final product.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:27am
Brisbane Roar said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
maybe being more demanding is a negative.
what does bigger have to do with the price of eggs? no disrespect.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:10pm
Roger said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Seven, are you joking? I agree that MV fans hate losing to MH, but at the end of the day – it takes time to re-build a team. It never happens over night. It’s not a matter of luxury, it’s just the reality.
October 10th 2012 @ 4:55pm
Jerome said | October 10th 2012 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
Are these the same people that called for Ernie Merrick’s head after season 1?
And then what happened when Merrick was finally deposed?
Get behind the new coach and be patient!
October 9th 2012 @ 11:03am
Fussball ist unser leben said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
Fair analysis – apart from singling out Traore.
Traore is EXACTLY what MVFC needed at Left Back/Wing Back. For sure he gets caught out, when he’s made the forward run and the ball is lost. However, this happens with EVERY full back in the world.
When Dani Alves loses the ball – and, yes, he loses it quite often – he too leaves the Barca defence exposed.
Last year, in the UCL Semi-Final between Real Madrid & Bayern, Fábio Coentrão was continuously caught out of position at Left Back in the 1st leg. In the 2nd leg, Mourinho put Marcelo at Left Back but, again, he too got caught out of position.
In this year’s UCL match against Man City, Marcelo was repeatedly caught out of position when Man City launched their counter attack. However, Marcelo also scored a beauty & set up a Ronaldo for another goal.
On Twitter, I once had a brief discussion with Scott Chipperfield about this very issue (in relation to Carney when he plays for AUS NT & Chippers during “the nightmare in Durban” against Germany). Chippers view is that Full Backs must keep going forward at all costs and the onus is on the holding midfielders to cover the gap.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:25am
Vince Rugari said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:25am | Report comment
You have to know when to pick your runs. Those players do – or at least they know when the jig is up and it’s time to pass. Traore often doesn’t. He also has a pretty heavy first touch at times. He’s a bit kamikaze in a way – moreso than any other LB in the league.
And quite clearly, given how under the pump MV’s defence was at times, he can’t count on his holding midfielders to cover a gap that is irresponsibly created. Ange should be instructing Traore not to go on any stupid runs – the one that led to the goal was a stupid run.
I think just saying that all fullbacks do a certain thing is no excuse, because there are different situations and elements at every club.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:56am
fadida said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Great point fussball, but there still should be cover. In this system fullbacks have licence to go whenever their team have possession. The job of the 6 is to drop into the back 3, ( other fb should also be advanced) and the left sided cb should then cover Traore’s space. The problem for MV is that I don’t think Foschini can play the same role, hence their lack of width and threat down the right.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:33pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
Did anybody watch Craig Goodwin’s performance for the Newcastle Jets. He was playing like a suicide man losing the ball constantly after racing forward. The best part about it, he was awarded a point in Fox Sport’s Alex Tobin Medal Count. We have some bad judges in this country.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:46pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
IIRC, Thomas got two points on friday night for average position, bad aerial work, decent distribution, one top save and a bunch of regulation stops eased by awful Heart finishing. Don’t get me wrong, it was a good game from Thomas, but he wasn’t the second best player on the park!
October 9th 2012 @ 2:57pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
Marcelo didn’t score a beauty. It was a deflected shot. Marcelo was much worst at the beginning of Mourinho’s tenure at Real Madrid. His improved slightly defensively but is still a liability at times. As Rugari said, you need to when to pick your runs. Why do you think they bought Coentrao. You can say depth, but it was for the other reason.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:26pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
RM has played 7 La Liga games this season: Marcelo has played 6; Coentrão has played 1.
RM has played 2 UCL games this season: Marcelo has played 2; Coentrão has played ZERO
But, you could be right, Mourinho probably thinks Coentrão is the better option. I’ll just observe the FACTS.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:39pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
I’m talking about the reason he bought Coentrao. It seems he has been surprised by how much Marcelo has improved but defensively he is still a liability. If you thought it through their is a big difference between Dani Alves and Adama Traore. Dani Alves and many european fullbacks don’t lose the ball as many times as Traore does . In the A-League it’s a disaster if you have full backs that bomb forward and continously give it away. It happens all the time. European fullbacks don’t give the ball away as cheaply as A-League players do.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:41pm
Vince Rugari said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
Correct. Besides, fullbacks need to be overlapping in attack – not so much actually driving the attacks themselves, as Traore tried to do.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:49pm
fadida said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Is not a disaster Villa_B if the defence behind slides across to cover. If the opposition don’t pull their wide man back to track the FB theyre left 2v1. If they do there’s little danger when possession is lost.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:56pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
your correct fadida. go watch craig goodwin’s performance against adelaide. yes he can run forward but jesus he loses the ball when he doesnt have too. why would you take on 2 players continously when you have had little success previously.
October 9th 2012 @ 4:14pm
fadida said | October 9th 2012 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
That Goodwin was a kamikaze isn’t a fault of the system but of individual decision making
October 9th 2012 @ 3:57pm
nachos supreme said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Fact is Coentrão has just come off a 4 match suspension…
October 9th 2012 @ 4:04pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
I just know out of the two who i prefer defensively. Marcelo and David Luiz must be brothers. They loving playing as attacking midfielders its not funny.
October 9th 2012 @ 4:48pm
nachos supreme said | October 9th 2012 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
They should all be forced to watch endless hours of Cafu.
That’s how you play WB.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:48am
AV said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Agree, it was only the first competitive game in charge of the club, there is a lot of promise there but still a lot of work to be done.
I also said the same in another forum, that in 2010/11 Brisbane didn’t have the other teams pressing them, they would all sit back and let Brisbane do whatever they wanted, until they were 1st on the ladder and by then it was too late, Brisbane were already settled into their new style. The only exception was Ernie Merricks team, do these type of goals look familiar?
[youtube]
Ange and Victory need time, the game plan is there, just need to iron out a few creases and have more practice under pressure.
October 9th 2012 @ 12:00pm
Roger said | October 9th 2012 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
Yea, spot on AV. Exactly the same kind of thing.
October 9th 2012 @ 12:45pm
Trentus said | October 9th 2012 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
I thought Allsopp was great when he came on. He didn’t seem as stuck to the AP game plan as the rest of the team, which was a good thing seeing as it failed on the night. That said, he should’ve scored when he headed straight to Bolton from a couple of metres out. He also might struggle if and when the game plan starts to work.
October 9th 2012 @ 12:57pm
TomC said | October 9th 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Traore looked good for twenty minutes and then struggled.
Foschini, on the other hand, was just awful from start to finish. Victory have a real problem in that position.
I thought Finkler and Allsopp were fine. Better for mine than Broxham or any of the back four.
My real problem was that the Victory looked painfully like a team that is trying to conform to a gamestyle more than they are trying to win a game. Thomas made some great saves, but also some boneheaded short passes to defenders who had opponents within four or five metres. The Heart were easily able to anticipate everything the Victory did and played accordingly.
There are people around who believe that a passing game is the best in all instances, for all teams. Personally I think that any system needs adaptability and prudence and there was none of that from the Victory on Friday.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:40pm
fadida said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
@TomC, The idea is to pass to players, even under pressure. By drawing opponents on you can then play in behind them and get at their next line. If Thomas doesn’t pass the ball the only option is to clear it, which then leads to loss of possession.
It wasn’t too effective at times but there were a couple of occasions in the first half where they played out beautifully and within seconds were getting in at goal, having taken out most of the MH players.
Patience is required but the long term gains will be massive. And it takes courage.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:53pm
TomC said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
Great. But the GK doesn’t need to do that every single time he has the ball. Pick and choose the moments.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:19pm
fadida said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
At this stage AP is trying to consolidate a philosophy so expect to see it all of the time. Michael “theo” (what was he thinking!”) always played it short and the Roar were roasted if they didn’t. No exception.
Personally I think a bit of flexibility doesn’t hurt but AP probably thinks if he allows that the first option will be long.
Jeggo rather than broxham in the 6 role would help.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:24pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
“Michael “theo” (what was he thinking!”) always played it short and the Roar were roasted if they didn’t.”
Anything to avoid a Goal Kick chant, eh?
October 9th 2012 @ 1:08pm
Ballymore said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
I acknowledge it is uncommon in HAL, but come the next transfer window does Postecoglou have any option to transfer-list players who are not performing/don’t fit his system? I’m thinking of Foschini & Broxham specifically. He might not find a buyer, but if he did it would free up salary cap space and squad numbers (although probably not bring much of a fee).
October 9th 2012 @ 1:27pm
AV said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
You can but, then you have to pay out the remainder of their contracts and that also comes under the salary cap, so you lose a player and still have to pay for it. There isn’t much point unless that player is destructive to the team dressing room.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:07pm
Ballymore said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
Oh I see, I thought they were only paid out if they were released with time left on their contract, not if they are sold to another club, who will pick up their salary.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:05pm
AVictory said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
Sorry I misread your question
I think, A-League clubs can’t buy players from each other when they are already under contract with an A-League club. However loaning players out is an option!.
E.g last year Victory loaned out Ricardinho and he was exempt from the salary cap while he was playing overseas in Brazil, he still had a year left on his contract.
You could also sell the player to an overseas club, but which professional league is going to want to buy a reject A-League player?
October 9th 2012 @ 7:17pm
Ballymore said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
SE Asia?
A few ordinary ex-HAL players play in SE Asia (Baird, Maycon, Gan in Malaysia), Brad Porter (Thailand), and a handful of West Australians play in Indonesia. Or India – Tolgay Ozbey was plucked from NSW Premier League I believe. The difference is all of those were free transfers not sales. Even so, if the player knows he can immediately pick up a club (and maybe a pay rise and more first team football) a pay-out might not be needed.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:00pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
FootballWest State League has been losing a number of players to Indonesia, strangely enough. Strange state of affairs when Australians are racing off to Indonesia for well-paying jobs and the limelight!
Well, that’s the global game for you.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:27pm
Realfootball said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Time is one thing, players another. I don’t think he has the players, yet, to play that kind of game. Foschini and Broxham just aren’t cutting it. Maybe AP can bring them up to speed, but both have had a lot of rope. Leijer, frankly, looks a liaibility. If you look at the issues in centre defence and right back, it’s hard to see MV challenging for silverware this season. Archie and Alsopp are 34, and looking it. My take is that AP is half way through a complete rebuild, and only next season will we see the full result. At the moment, he is rather like a boxer trying to fight with one hand tied behind his back. Farina left him with a much better core of contracted players at the Roar. At Victory, he is still living with the ill advised contractual consequences of Merrick’s final season.
I hope, for the sake of the League, that Melbourne Victory and Sydney FC make the finals this season, but it would not surprise me if one or both missed out.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:34pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
You’ve decided all this after 90 minutes of football?
Fair enough.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:34pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Fussball unlike you we have been watching their performances for the last 2-3 years. Broxham is awful. It is simple.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:40pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Thanks, Villa_B
No disrespect to your football credentials, but, if Ange Postecoglou considers these lads good enough to play senior football for MVFC, then I’ll listen to Ange and not blokes, who’ve been watching for 2-3 years.
PS: I’ve been a season ticket holder for MVFC every season apart from Yr1 & have attended 90% of MVFC’s home HAL matches & 100% of MVFC ACL matches.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:49pm
Ballymore said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
The question is, does AP consider these lads good enough to play senior football for MVFC, or is he is forced to keep them because of their contracts?
October 9th 2012 @ 2:53pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
I’m talking about Broxham specifically you muppet. How long has he been in the team for? Fussball I’m sure Postecoglou wanted to get rid of more players but depending on how long left their was on their contract he was in a tight situation. I’ve watched this league from day one and I have no bias on any team. I watch nearly every game and I know their are some players in that MV team that don’t fit his philosophy. I’m certain he doesn’t want Allsopp but is stuck with him. Veteran strikers and veteran players of any kind are not Postecoglou’s style. Did you not watch him at the Brisbane Roar?
October 9th 2012 @ 3:20pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
@ Villa_B
I’ll ignore the personal abuse, but my regard for you has dropped considerably.
Your knowledge of MVFC is poor.
Leigh Broxham has played in the senior team at MVFC since Season 2 – i.e. 2006/07 season.
Leigh Broxham was part of the matchday squad in the 2007 HAL Grand Final at Docklands, when MVFC beat AUFC 6-0 and came off the bench in the 59′ to replace Grant Brebner.
As I said, you knowledge of MVFC is poor.
I’m far more interested in what Ange Postecoglou thinks of Leigh Broxham than any anonymous football fan on this forum.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:31pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
Fussball is that the best you can do. Pick me up on that error. Don’t think you were not being a smart arse with what you wrote before. I’m sorry if I hurt your touchy feelings. Answer my question don’t pick on little things to try and humiliate me. To think Broxham has played for that long pains me even more. I can see what sort of person you are. Runs away from a question and just focuses on ridiculing someone. Pure class.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:33pm
Realfootball said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
That’s the point, Fussball: AP hasn’t got a choice because of contracts already signed before he came on board.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:41pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
Just leave Fussball. His in his own delusional world where he needs to protect the Melbourne Victory at all costs. We are anonymous football fans who have no idea because we arn’t coaches in his eyes. He pulls me up on Broxham. Okay I was wrong I didn’t check but the basis of my argument was not affected that much by my mistake. Broxham is average at best.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:48pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
If there’s one thing Fuss could never be accused of, it’s not watching Melbourne Victory matches!
October 9th 2012 @ 3:40pm
The Bear said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
…and possibly contemplating that Broxham can become a Murdocca ; )
October 9th 2012 @ 4:21pm
Realfootball said | October 9th 2012 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
In a universe far, far away…
October 9th 2012 @ 4:36pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 9th 2012 @ 4:36pm | Report comment
Muscat == Vader?
October 9th 2012 @ 5:10pm
Realfootball said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
I was thinking more Chewbacca
somewhat less hair, of course, but the vocabulary seems to fit…
October 9th 2012 @ 5:39pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
Top stuff
October 9th 2012 @ 3:32pm
Realfootball said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
No, not at all. Foschini, Broxham and Leijer have been poor now for several seasons. I don’t know quite what has happened to Leijer -when he first came into the team all those years ago he was outstanding. Perhaps this reflects the progress of the competition in terms of standards.
As for Thompson and Alsopp, they are their ages. 34 is last legs for 99% of athletes.
October 9th 2012 @ 6:25pm
AndyRoo said | October 9th 2012 @ 6:25pm | Report comment
I have no doubt he wouldn’t sign most of those players if he had a choice but I hope he can turn Leijer around at least.
He is not completely against veteran players, most of his foreign signings at the Roar were older and Steffenutto was no spring chicken.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:06pm
Villa_B said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:06pm | Report comment
Ange prefers youth to veterans. It’s plain and simple.
October 9th 2012 @ 10:17pm
Andyroo said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
Except when it isn’t…. like Stefenutto over Hingert.
I think his bigger preference is for mobility rather than any age bias.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:28pm
Mark said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:28pm | Report comment
Realfootball,- an excellent analysis. That is exactly Victory’s predicament. I’ve been a Victory fan since their inception. I cannot agree more with all the players that you nominated. And like you, I also strongly believe that the Club is only half way through a rebuild.
Unfortunately the Victory faithful can’t see the writing on the wall and the limitations for the likes of Leijer, Broxham, Foschini, Allsop and Thompson. Although the latter may be a club legend, at any other successful club he would be performing the role of an impact player from the bench only.
I’m sure that Ange will have addressed this by the end of the season. Having said that, however, it does concern me that Leijer’s deficiencies have not been identified and he still performs the role of captain.
October 9th 2012 @ 10:00pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:00pm | Report comment
@ Mark
Ange has specifically stated: “this is not a rebuilding year”. But, you still “strongly believe that the Club is only half way through a rebuild”?
Ange had the option of starting with Celeski, Ferreira or Jeggo instead of Broxham. Ange chose Broxham.
Ange had the option of starting with Markelis, Davies, Cernak instead of Archie. Ange chose Archie.
Ange had the option of starting with Gallagher, Dilevski, Franjic instead of Foscini & Leijer. Ange chose Foschini & Leijer.
It is undisputed within AUS football that Ange is the best coach we’ve ever had in the HAL & he’s transformed the way clubs approach the game.
So, I have to ask …
… Whom should I believe? You, or Ange Postecoglou?
October 9th 2012 @ 10:20pm
Mark said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
Fussbull, I don’t doubt for a moment that Ange is the best coach we’ve ever had. And you’ve asked valid questions in relation to his selection options.
It remains to be seen whether those players will continue to be the first selected as the season progresses. As I said in my previous comment …..’I'm sure that Ange will have addressed this by the end of the season’!
As Realfootball pointed out (and I agreed with), Thompson and Allsop are 34, Broxham and Foschini aren’t cutting it, and Leijer lacks leadership ability (and form). In my opinion, MVFC will not be a genuine challenger whilst these players are amid the first team selections.
I hope that I’m wrong, as I too would like to see Victory reclaim some silverware!!
October 9th 2012 @ 1:27pm
Tad Pohle said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
It is obvious from early reports etc of Postecoglou and his plans at Brisbane that the plan included the coaching triumvirate that he left behind at Roar. Before this first game he declared his team was ready for the season and so it should have been. He was probably under advise of the assistant coach Muscrap. The length of the off season should have had the team further advanced to plan A than the failure that it was against Heart at the weekend.
Apart from the realisation that his plan A did not entuate, his recruitment was less than Broichelike and that was another srtength of the Roar TEAM, rather than Postecoglou. He was also alarmingly out coached on the day tactically by a rookie coach …… another throw back to having muscrap for an assistant rather than Rado.
I reckon all victory got for their dollars was the “hairdrier” and the “face on the poster” while they left the business operators in QLD……..
October 9th 2012 @ 3:30pm
fadida said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
Think you’re miles off the truth. Having attended MV coaching clinics and seen the group in action it’s pretty clear from talikng to Muscat that Muscat and the other assistants are in awe of AP. He’s no figurehead of a Muscat operation.
Wait until the half way mark before writing off AP and declaring Rado the brains. First view of Roar suggests Rado might have been riding the coat tails, but I’m not going to write him off on the basis of 1 game.
October 10th 2012 @ 11:03am
Tad Pohle said | October 10th 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
I’m not saying that Rado is the brains …… I said that the team of three got the result ….. not postecoglou. I do not however, subscribe to any theory that muscrap is superior in any form to Rado or Stead …. but it is reported that muscrap was the defensive coach specialist and the victory defense is crap.
In case you have missed the message ….. the breaking up of the coaching staff at Roar has ruined both camps. Being in awe of a person does not necessarily relate to being able to join the programme and deliver a result. muscrap was a tough physical defender who bullied the opposition in to fear of having a leg broken rather than his tactical and positiooning nouse. Good luck in trying to relate that to a lesson in awe of a coach …. ????????
October 10th 2012 @ 11:13am
fadida said | October 10th 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
“ruined both”? So based on the evidence of 1 game, yes 90 minutes you have written off both Roar and MV?
Now I hate Muscat the player as much as anyone, but off the field he is articulate and knowledgeable. I’m simply rejecting the notion that he is pulling the strings at MV, or is in some way disruptive. “muscrap”? Shows your feelings
October 10th 2012 @ 11:51am
Tad Pohle said | October 10th 2012 @ 11:51am | Report comment
This forum is good isn’t it …. being able to communicate directly without all the trolls in between.
The evidence I base my opinion on is not 90 minutes of football. It is all the leadup information and comments made and how they compared to the end result.
Postecoglou stated emphatically that his team was ready and had taken on board his philosophy whole heartedly. The 90 mins of football proved that to not be the case. If six months of recruiting and pre season produced that result I cannot see there being any change soon.
We must have a very different definition of “articulate and knowledgeable” ……. I saw a video of muscrap with a whiteboard where he was articulating what they were expecting at the weekend. Non of it eventuated and his presentation was not fluent as it would be from a knowledgeable person nor was it accurate. It was very basic indeed and what I would have been embarrassed in presenting. It was very amateurish and more based on last years team.
You are aware that I did not put forward a “notion” that he is pulling the strings at victory, they were your words, however, I do see why people have such a notion.
Postecoglou does not have the dressing room yet ……….. and the results and team selections are continuos from last year ??????. Nothing has changed that is recorded on the ladder nor the excuses …. the season has only started …. there is plenty of time …. we are a work in progress…………blah blah blah.
I do hope that the “Kewell Syndrome” has not transferred itself to Sydfc ….. which it appears it has with the marquee saying in the press to have patience etc…….