IRB must put some sanity into world rugby records
Columnist By David Lord, 9 Oct 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
102 Have your say
The Wallabies couldn't keep up with the All Blacks in their 27-19 loss on Saturday (AAP Image/Paul Miller).
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We keep reading the All Blacks are on track on 16 to break the world record for the most consecutive international rugby wins in history, which stands at 18 and held by Lithuania.
What? How absurd.
How can the 36th ranked side in the world hold such a prestige record?
But the facts are worse.
Lithuania between May 2006 and May 2010 won 20 on the trot.
And they played such rivetting opposition as Hungary (ranked 85) four times, Latvia (29) three times, two each against Andorra (62), Norway (93) and Austria (84) plus one each against Bulgaria (79), Switzerland (52). the Netherlands (47), Israel (56), Serbia (73), and Slovenia ranked 81.
The 20th success was against Armenia which has an international side, but is not a member of the IRB and therefore has no official ranking. Jot them down in the 80-plus.
By comparison the All Blacks’ 16 successive wins have been against three against the Wallabies (ranked 3), Ireland (7), and the Pumas (8), two against the Boks (2) and France (5), and one each against Tonga (12), Canada (13), and Japan ranked 16.
Lithuania’s standing is that company is an IRB embarrassment. Fix it.
Only top eight ranked countries should hold world records, despite who they play, as the only ones with a chance to win a Rugby World Cup – however slim.
Outside of the eight – none and Buckleys and are recored in a secondary category.
The same torch should be applied to Daisuke Ohata’s world record of tries.
Japan’s favourite son has touched down 69 times in 58 internationals to tip Wallaby David Campese’s 64 from 101 out of the top spot.
Just as absurd with Oharta playing against the same countries as Lithuania, most of them in the 50-plus rankings.
The top five are Oharta 69, Campese 64, Welshman Shane Williams 60 from 91, another from Japan Hirotoki Onozawa 51 from 74, and Englishmen Rory Underwood 50 from 91.
The list should show Campese, Williams, and Underwood as one-two-three with the two from Japan in the secondary category.
There are times when you really wonder what the IRB is thinking.
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October 9th 2012 @ 3:19am
ohtani's jacket said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:19am | Report comment
Agreed. I often lay awake at night worrying about this. In fact, that’s why I’m up right now.
Did you ever watch Ohata play? A sublime player if ever there was one.
Given he was one of the stars of the 2003 World Cup in Australia, I would hope he gets a bit of acknowledgement. Otherwise, any calls to expand the game globally are hollow. Records such as consecutive test match victories and most test match tries don’t carry a tremendous amount of weight in rugby compared to other sports. I doubt many people could answer scoring record questions about their national team.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:08am
Acorn said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
bloody hell he had some wheels didn’t he? there’s no substitute for raw pace out wide is there
October 9th 2012 @ 10:05am
Bakkies said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Geez he was like Dominici with jet shoes.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:30pm
The Bush said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
“there’s no substitute for raw pace out wide is there”
You’ve hit the nail on the head there… He just burns them. The last time I saw a try like some of those, where it was just pure pace, was when Rod Davies scored a blinder a year or two back.
Great tries and clearly the man was a champion, so record deserved.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:59am
Ralph said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Brilliant!
Steps off right or left, stops and go acceleration and straight out smoke them on the outside.
Hard to begrudge that man a record.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:15pm
barbz said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Jesus christ! What a player! Now all that’s left is for him to write an article every single week about what’s wrong with japanese rugby and how they don’t play rugby like they (he) used to. How there is some great conspiracy not letting him coach in japan. And the occasional hypocritical column criticising current players for being outspoken. Then he would be worthy for the record right?
October 9th 2012 @ 2:43pm
Kuruki said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Would not look out of place playing alongside Campo or Cullen. Worthy of his title imo.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:47pm
bennalong said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Thanks for the clips OJ. Loved that contribution.
Wonderful to watch as is the Japanese love of running rugby!
So let me get something straight. Do you agree with the intent of the article or not?
I know you said agreed but you went on to talk about your insomnia in a derisory way,…….. and then put up the clip!
I take it you don’t like the writer.
October 9th 2012 @ 7:06pm
ohtani's jacket said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:06pm | Report comment
I was being sarcastic.
I got to see Ohata play albeit at the very tail end of his career. He ended up rupturing both archilles and was never quite the same.
October 9th 2012 @ 4:06pm
Halleys Comet said | October 9th 2012 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Wow, fantastic player, throughly deserved record holder, why would you not acknowledge that D’Lord?, nonsense article
October 9th 2012 @ 9:15pm
Steve said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:15pm | Report comment
Thanks Jacket: I’m not really a ‘Union’ man, and I really learned something from those vids.
(David’s article, not so much)
October 9th 2012 @ 3:54am
Tisso Time said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:54am | Report comment
David, records are how others measure your success. With the All Blacks it is about achievement and playing to the best of your ability, striving for perfection and maintaining a legacy. I suggest this is a greater motivator than breaking any record. Moreover the records will follow should you play with this attitude as the benchmark is always in transition and evolving upwards.
October 9th 2012 @ 4:06am
Tisso Time said | October 9th 2012 @ 4:06am | Report comment
On another matter I am off to buy Richies book this morning – The Open Side. Exerts from NZHerald brings admission he masked his foot injury during RWC.
October 9th 2012 @ 6:14am
moaman said | October 9th 2012 @ 6:14am | Report comment
Excerpts here http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839280
October 9th 2012 @ 8:40am
Red Kev said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
I wish he’d waited until he finished playing before putting out a book. It is like bands releasing a greatest hits album while still writing songs.
Mainly though, I wish he had written it himself so we get his voice rather than the guy’s who interviewed him interpretation of his voice.
I did like the excerpt where McCaw can’t help but level a cheap shot at Lawrence for his reffing of the Super XV final. Nice to know the loss still bothers him.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:34am
Harry said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Why’s he whinging about that? The Reds got the wrong end of the pineapple that night with two utterly appalling decisions:
- Brad Thorn deliberately trips a Reds player, got off scot free. Not the great man’s best moment at Lang Park, or anywhere.
- Simmons perfectly legitimate intercept try called back on the strength of a desperate whinge at fellow kiwi Bryce.
October 9th 2012 @ 5:20am
mania said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:20am | Report comment
david – who cares. its quirky and meaningless.
October 9th 2012 @ 7:45am
nickoldschool said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:45am | Report comment
agree mania; what a trivial matter!
We all know that ABs are better than Lithuania. What’s the point in erasing them for the records?! Are we that snobby and pedantic that top 8 nations should not stand next to others…(basically rugby pariahs)???
Plus the top 8 changes all the times and teams like Pumas, Samoa, Scotland etc are often outside. yet, they can certainly play rugby and win against most top 8 teams…
David, we have to choose our battles. This one is not worth it. Plus how elitist and insulting that sounds! hope the new rugby nations dont read this article!!!
October 9th 2012 @ 7:57am
mania said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:57am | Report comment
agree nos. is this a case of an elitest mentality? rugby is the most inclusive sport out there. how many other sports allow inclusion of all body types all with different styles to play and succeed?
October 9th 2012 @ 9:24am
M.O.C. said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
I agree wholeheartedly – same as world ranking – big deal, who cares, move on. The only game that matters is the next one. I know people will rant about how the world ranking system affects the RWC, but again, who cares. That is the great thing about rugby, two teams play each other, they both start with 0 on the score board and you both have 80 minutes to beat the opponent. Anyone can win on the day regardless of meaningless ranking systems and records.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:47pm
Kuruki said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Don’t get to carried away. If Australia win in a fortnights time i doubt they can lay claim to being the current best team in the world. The rankings tell a story not just flicking through the headlines.
October 9th 2012 @ 3:56pm
bennalong said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
Are you blokes of the mindset that what the IRB does and says doesn’t matter?
Or are you saying they’re F***wits so ignore them?
Stats kept by the governing body of any major sport are patently not meaningless, and if you don’t give a s**t why do you feel the need to make out it’s an unworthy subject.
Truth is always worth standing for.
October 9th 2012 @ 5:39am
katzilla said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:39am | Report comment
You can only play what’s put Infront of you.
The idea to disregard a rugby nations achievement because of their ranking is absurd, Lithuania beat a team more then 10 places above them on the rankings 3 times! When have the All Blacks ever beaten a team more then 10 places above them on the ladder?
Also there are reasons to laud Ohata’s record and disregard Campese’s.
Did Ohata get to play outside one of the greatest attacking first fives ever?
How would Ohata have gone jumping on an Ella chip kick?
I’m not trying to disregard Campos skills and achievements, but there are both pros and cons about playing for and against top nations.
We’re an inclusive game, let’s not be snobs to the lower ranked players/ countries.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:53am
Ian Whitchurch said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:53am | Report comment
What he said.
October 9th 2012 @ 11:37am
AdamS said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:37am | Report comment
indeed.
Slow news day for Lordy…
October 9th 2012 @ 11:53am
Die hard said | October 9th 2012 @ 11:53am | Report comment
What a wonderful voice of reason.
October 9th 2012 @ 2:33pm
The Bush said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
Top post, it’s a shame that David Lord only responds to those who insult him and never responds to be people who actually make insightful comments in response to his articles – I personally would love to know what he has to say to this post.
October 9th 2012 @ 4:00pm
bennalong said | October 9th 2012 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Argument for the sake of it
You blokes are talking crap
“Did Ohata get to play outside one of the greatest attacking first fives ever”?
What the ……?????
What sort of BS is that.?
October 9th 2012 @ 5:41am
pogo said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:41am | Report comment
If Lithuania won 18 officially sanctioned test matches against full international sides then I would say that is the end of the matter, they hold the record until someone beats it. If NZ lose to Australia in their upcoming game then so be it, the record should stand.
I don’t think many people are likely to confused into thinking that Lithuania are world champions, so why not let them have it.
October 9th 2012 @ 9:18am
formeropenside said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Yeah, the question is why aren’t matches against (say) Italy, Romania, Georgia etc now being played more regularly by the Liths? Hell, you can’t tell me they would not jump the chance to even host the Wallabies for a midweek (Test) on the EOYT.
Would probably end their winning streak – although with Deans you can never be sure – but growing the game but playing minnows is a responsibility the top tier nations have (although Australia should probably focus on Asia and Sri Lanka in the shorter term).
October 9th 2012 @ 9:25am
Mike said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
I think Lithuania’s streak has already ended. They ran into the Ukraine…
October 9th 2012 @ 2:38pm
The Bush said | October 9th 2012 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
“the question is why aren’t matches against (say) Italy, Romania, Georgia etc now being played more regularly by the Liths?”
They are not in the same division in European Rugby (Georgia and Romania).
Lithuania won the record by climbing from something like the “fifth” division of European Rugby up to about the third or maybe the second (which if you include the Six Nations is actually the third).
Additionally, George and Romania aren’t looking to play teams underneath them in the rankings outside of the Nations Cup for obvious reasons.
October 9th 2012 @ 5:49am
Jerry said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:49am | Report comment
Re: Ohata and Campese.
There’s actually a fair bit of inconsistency regarding some of Campese’s tries as compared to some of his contempories in that the Wallabies were awarding test caps against the likes of Fiji, USA, Italy etc when many other established test nations weren’t.
October 9th 2012 @ 6:32am
Andrew C (waikato) said | October 9th 2012 @ 6:32am | Report comment
David, you should know that it’s only THE BLOODY MEDIA that rant , gush & rave re irrelevant records like this one. AND if it hadn’t occured to you, YOU ARE MEDIA, so, in this particular instance, YOU are writing crap/rubbish.
………….. btw, “what’s grey, got two floppy ears and a trunk?” >>>> that’s IRRELEVANT !!! 
…………… good morning.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:32am
David Lord said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Andrew C, that’s a dumb comment, I suppose you would recognise the 200-plus world swimming records set in 2008 and 2009 wearing the polyurethane bodysuits. Hardly a world record was set for 18 months once FINA had an attack of brains and banned the suits. Those records set in 2008 and 2009 should have an asterisk alongside the swimmer’s name. Just as Lithuania should have an asterick having not beaten any team that can play.
October 9th 2012 @ 1:42pm
Andrew C (waikato) said | October 9th 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
No David, I wouldn’t even have thought of a ruddy swim records wearing polyurethane swimsuits, BUT I certainly would quite like viewing Female Swimming World Records set whilst in their BIRTHDAY SUITS
– yum.
October 9th 2012 @ 7:14am
Hugo said | October 9th 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
David, using sanity and IRB in the same sentence in reverse tautology.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:41am
Red Kev said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
So a contradiction?
October 9th 2012 @ 3:04pm
MattyP said | October 9th 2012 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
I think Oxymoron is the word that you are looking for.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:34am
Christo the Daddyo said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
So David, what would you propose to do when top teams play lowly teams? For example, I was browsing some of the 2003 World Cup games and noticed that Australia beat Romania 90-8 and Namibia 142-0. Should those results stand? Of course they should, which makes your argument nonsensical.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:45am
Brett McKay said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
When the ICC places an asterix against all Test runs made and wickets taken against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe AND recognises World Series Cricket stats THEN the IRB can de-rank Lithuania and Ohata’s efforts….
October 9th 2012 @ 8:58am
Sailosi said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Brett, so when Zimbabwe beat Pakistan in a test series in the 90′s do those runs count? How does one decide if they count or not?When did rest runs against Sri Lanka begin to count? Does Gilchrists hundred against Bangladesh when Australia were 5-110 in reply to Bangladesh 420, does that count?
October 9th 2012 @ 9:04am
Brett McKay said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Of course they do Sailo, that’s my point. There won’t and shouldn’t be any declassification. These are all legitimate deeds in matches recognised by the appropriate bodies as fully-fledged Test Matches, and the records should say as much..
October 9th 2012 @ 9:31am
Sailosi said | October 9th 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
My thoughts exactly.
October 9th 2012 @ 12:08pm
formeropenside said | October 9th 2012 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
I’m not sure about Watto’s 5-for against Pakistan however.
October 10th 2012 @ 12:17am
Dasilva said | October 10th 2012 @ 12:17am | Report comment
Not to mention the socceroos and Archie Thompson have the record of most goals in an international match. 13 goals for Archie and 31-0 for the socceroos. If people like David lord have their way then these will be expunge from the record books. Records like these just make interesting trivia
October 10th 2012 @ 9:47am
HardcorePrawn said | October 10th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Great point Dasilva!
October 9th 2012 @ 10:54am
Sam Taulelei said | October 9th 2012 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Brett
Take it one step further. When the IOC places an asterisk against medal winners at games that suffered boycotts from countries expected to feature in the medal tallies for certain events as well as those suspected of steroid abuse then we can de-rank Lithuania.
Speaking of the Olympics and rugby, if we allow this line of logic, should the USA also be stripped of their two Olympic gold medals for Rugby in 1920 and 1924 due to their status as a minnow rugby nation?
It’s quite likely that the All Blacks will finish the year unbeaten, with a new world record and win the IRB team of the year, coach of the year and player of the year awards to lock away in the cupboard with the RWC, Bledisloe Cup, TRC, World 7′s and Super 15 trophy.
This will echo (not mirror) the achievements of the Wallabies in 2001 who won every trophy on offer that year.
October 9th 2012 @ 8:23pm
Snobby Deans said | October 9th 2012 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
Ummmm, the Wallabies didn’t hold the Cook Cup. They lost that when they lost to England at the end in 2001 at Twickers . . . so the Wallabies were not quite as all conquering as you might think . . .