What the NRL can learn from the Super Rugby draw
By Tommygun, 10 Oct 2012 Tommygun is a Roar Rookie
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- international rugby league, NRL, Rugby League, State Of Origin
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The previous draw used by Super Rugby was my favourite for the sole reason of its fairness. For the uninitiated, a team played everyone once.
The following year they played everyone once, with the home grounds reversed.
If you played the Waratahs at home in ‘08, you would be heading to Sydney to play them in ‘09. Simple.
I make note of this exceptional draw because I am sick of the shambles that is the NRL draw. The NRL draw is a self-serving mess, helping no one other than Channel Nine.
26 rounds, random bye weeks, some teams playing the Storm twice but Eels once. Maybe your team will strike it lucky and play the Broncos during the Origin period? Maybe your team is the Broncos and you play anyone during Origin?
Maybe your team is a constant feature on football-unfriendly Monday nights? Friends are in town in two months, maybe I can show them a good time at the footy if we play that day? Maybe, maybe, maybe…
The draw is as predictable as the video ref, when the fans are crying out for Queensland winning Origin levels of predictability. These issues are not new and here is my solution, along with a few ideas on international league.
18 teams for 17 rounds of club rugby league. Of course, the scary word ‘expansion’, that many are afraid of, must be confronted here. Perth, Central Queensland, Central Coast, Papua New Guinea a second New Zealand team?! I don’t care.
For those that argue the depth isn’t there I suggest you watch the NSW cup grand final. 13 players had over 300 combined games of NRL or Super League experience. The Queensland cup grand final had six players with NRL or Super League experience for over 400 games experience. They are just the four teams in the respective grand finals. The Toyota Cup also featured players with NRL experience.
Only 18 rounds? Where will the TV networks get their money from? The All Star game.
Great game, and a great way to whet the appetite that a long season of cricket and tennis just hasn’t been able to satisfy. I would love to see a rugby player come over for the All Star match, as it would generate great interest and add another dimension to the game.
I sure know I kept tabs on the Barbarians games that Sam Tomkins and Willie played in. Of course I know the possibility of the ARU releasing any of their players is slim to none, but definitely worth a try.
ANZAC test stays, split round of course. The ANZAC game has been around since the dark days of 1997 and was one of the few good concepts to come out of ‘the war’. However I believe we can tweak the concept to include an under-20s Test too.
I believe an under-20s Test could be a tiny step to alleviating some of the confusion around eligibility. Had Tamou and Papalii been playing for New Zealand in under-20s, perhaps they would have embraced the team and as a result be lining up in black and white on Saturday night?
City Country stays. I think with the reduced length in the regular season, the game may develop into a genuine selection trial, with more players willing to prove themselves and not succumb to suspicious injuries. Michael Ennis and the ever injured-around-country-selection-time Matt Cooper, that was aimed at you!
Split rounds for State of Origin. This may be tricky, as league will be virtually surrendering to other codes on the TV and the grounds, except of course when it is game time. So, in conjunction with Origin, we stage a New Zealand Origin, Auckland against the rest of the country.
If both games were played at 7:30pm and with the time difference, this could be top pre-game entertainment for Australians or a great post match game for the Kiwis to enjoy. This New Zealand Origin concept has the ability to help players torn over allegiances, being paid handsomely helps too.
The grand final format can stay as is, bar the entertainment. Three games of footy, what more could you ask? How about some entertainment that appeals to the masses in the crowd! Good Charlotte appeals to 12 year old girls. While I encourage all ages and gender to support rugby league, 12 year old girls probably account for less than 5% of league fans.
With that proposed draw, the broadcaster(s) would be receiving 153 games of club rugby league, with no players missing throughout the year due to representative commitments. This year, they were given 180. I would argue that the difference of 27 games featured many watered down games, with players being rested after Origin or missing because of it.
With a full strength product and the added international and New Zealand Origins, this draw is worth just as much as the current one, except it’s fairer and more functional.
International eligibility rules and scheduling are frustrating to say the least. It may smack of double standards, but players that have represented Australia, New Zealand or England should be able to represent countries outside the top three, under one condition.
If a player like Uate decides to represent Fiji, he cannot play for Australia for two years. While that may not seem like the wisest move for Uate, a player of immense experience like Tuqiri could pass on so much knowledge to the Fijian team. Someone like Tuqiri could give the game great exposure and get more Fijiians into League.
So while the four Nations are on, we could have another tournament running at the same time featuring a sprinkling of NRL and English Super League talent. Presumably this tournament would be featuring the likes of Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji and, at a stretch, the Cook Islands.
Players available would include Neville Costigan, Lote Tuqiri, Joe Gualavou, the Naqiama brothers, David Mead, James Segeyaro, Paul Aiton and Richie Fa’aoso. I’m sure they would relish representing their countries on a more frequent basis.
I know not all of these ideas are going to be proven viable, but it’s something!
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October 10th 2012 @ 1:44am
Johnno said | October 10th 2012 @ 1:44am | Report comment
Scrap city country it has not been a rep trial for origin for 20 years.
Have rep weekend windows. Play Origin on a saturday night, far more fun than Wensday night if you ask me. Coz on Saturday your mind is free, as no one works on the weekend it is the weekend.
And don’t give origin players a pay increase subsidise NZ test team and other test teams so they don’t ditch NZ and play origin and for Australia eg TUrn coat Tamou and Ben Te’o, who have been able to play coz of the easy eligibitliy rules that needs tightening.
And I will add K Hunt and Tonie carroll to the list too. Tonie Carroll played for QLD, then NZ in the world cup, then QLD then Australia. A joke. And Brad Thorn too playes for QLD and Australia then the All Blacks in rugby.
So you are free to focus just on sport and not work. And more athmposhere on Saturday night weekend than wendsday night.
And on that weekend play some rep games eg NZ VS Samoa, or Fiji VS Tonga, or NZ VS Paific Islands or NZ VS Indiginous all stars game , have it on a friday night double header or something, or an Australian VS NZ schoolboys match.
-Or have a Auckland VS rest of NZ match. Either way have 3 stand alone weekends in the year.
-And if you add teams like in super rugby have conferences as they offer more flexibility eg a QLD conference.
-As we have seen this year no fans want to pay and watch a Manly VS Nth QLD match local derbies sell. And as the 2 stadia policy is going to come in soon , it pays to have more local derbies. More Sydney derbies, and more QLD derbies.
Also restores international rugby league to it’s no 1 order on the pyramid:
4 year cycle like rugby and soccer model
Example
YR 1- Ashes tour of GB play 3 tests vs GB a French test and 1 tour warm up game eg vs leeds or wigan or St Helens or Bradford
YR 2- 4 nations
YR 3- rest no test footy
YR 4- Rugby League World Cup
And ever year have a ANZAC test – Call it something like the Lewis-Mcghan shield or the Meninga-Wiki sheild/trophy
That draw is clear and too the point. And to address the player welfare issues with draw like this. 3 weeks off during season, rest for players, you can scrap 1 bye round as you get rest during year, and extra money form tv deal extend full time playing squad by 5 spots. SO that is easy straight forwad draw, that importantly makes test international footy the no 1 pinnacle where it rightfully should be. As league is ambitious and wants to be a global sport no 1 it needs to make test footy no 1 and state of origin no 2 where it belongs. A state vs state title in a comp that markets itself as a national comp, and as a global sport is nothing to be proud of it makes a lie of it’s marketing model.
October 10th 2012 @ 2:51am
Morotti said | October 10th 2012 @ 2:51am | Report comment
I agree that for equality, 26 rounds and 16 teams just doesn’t go. Either play each other once or twice. You can’t have some teams playing the storm twice and then the Eels once like you suggested.
Eventually I would love for it to be a 20 team competition with new teams coming from Brisbane, Perth, New Zealand and another to be confirmed. Then you could have a 19 round NRL competition which sees 152 regular season games.
Then I favour a representative weekend which could include Australian State of Origin, New Zealand State of Origin, NSW City vs Country, QLD City vs Country, Australian Aborigines vs New Zealand Maoris, and Pacific Island nations playing international fixtures. I know that there would be selection headaches as many players would qualify for several different teams but surely this can be worked out for the good of the game. If that is over three weekends then hopefully we could get another 10 games for broadcasters.
I must be in the minority but I do not like the ANZAC test in April. I feel it is a distraction and would prefer to have all internationals played at the end of the year. Why we are only playing one this year is beyong me. The players say they need a break but they are professional athletes and I feel we missed an opportunity to have another four nations which would boost the profile of international rugby league.
I love the concept of the Challenge Cup and the other knockout competitions that are played in Europe throughout all sports. I would like to see this instituted in Oz somehow and it can be played on a Wednesday night. That would help develop the depth of league and have other benefits to the game. Hopefully broadcasters once the series got closer to the end would catch on and televise the games mid week.
I was at the Super League grand final on the weekend and I can say that there was no half time entertainment. I didn’t miss it at all and preferred being able to chat to my mate and some of the other fans around us.
There needs to be clearer eligibility rules and hopefully they will come. I believe that once a player chooses either Australia, England or New Zealand that they should not be able to change. If they are not picked to play for one of these nations then they should be able to represent the other nations if they qualify.
October 10th 2012 @ 12:33pm
Dayer said | October 10th 2012 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
I basically agree with most of of what you written but really, get rid of the City – Country games.
October 11th 2012 @ 2:35pm
nomis said | October 11th 2012 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
I agree with more rep games on an origin weekend. It solves the problem of having more than one game + more club teams are equally disadvantaged with players out. Keep City/country, but doesn’t need to be a qualifier for Origin.
There are other regions to experiment with for other rep teams.
October 10th 2012 @ 5:16am
peeeko said | October 10th 2012 @ 5:16am | Report comment
very good points about the draw being unfair in many ways, to counter this i would day that 8 teams out of 16 make the finals and if come ninth or tenth due to a tough draw then bad luck. it cant be that hard to make the finals. i agree that the draw could definitely be better
October 10th 2012 @ 7:41am
Crosscoder said | October 10th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
You really need at leAST 18 teams.In three conferences 3x 6 .Each named Messenger,Churchill and Beetson.
Each team within each conference plays each other twice 10 rds plus plays each team within the remaining two conferences 12 rds=total no of rds 22.
Reduces the number of current rounds by 2 meaning room available for either SOO/tests/All stars /regional promotions(instead of county v city.No bye.IOW Bye bye to byes .
Conferences initially based on geographical closeness,then altered each year.This maximises crowds ,Tv ratings. to offset a loss of 1 home rd.
Now the bulk of the rds will be set by the ARLC not the ch9,that at least is a start(although only a small step on a long journey).
October 10th 2012 @ 8:05am
Dogs Of War said | October 10th 2012 @ 8:05am | Report comment
If you have 18 teams, I think 4 conferences is a better way to go. 2 with 5 teams, 4 in the other 2. Play all the teams in your conference twice, the other conferences once, and the 2 4 team conferences play an extra game against the team that finished in the same spot in the other 4 team conference the previous year. That makes 23 rounds. The bonus is that extra home game half the teams have can be taken by the NRL to use as promotional tool games, which can be played in areas that don’t have a team.
I also think you should never change the makeup of the conferences, and it will build the rivalry with those teams. Then you just have conference winners qualify and the next 4 wild card teams with the best record through.
October 10th 2012 @ 11:03am
josh said | October 10th 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
I like the idea of a conference style system.
Even with the existing 16 teams it can work. Based on location have 4 groups of 4, even include rivalries in the conferences. maybe have Northern Zone: Nth Qld, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Newcastle; Southern Zone: Melbourne, Canberra, Warriors, Penrith; Eastern: Sharks, Dragons, Sea Eagles, Roosters; Central: Eels, Bulldogs, Tigers, Rabbitohs.
That’s a 20 game season. Each top team from each conference in the finals the next 4 based on combined home and away percentages. 20 game seasons can still have byes, frees up room for SoO/ representative games.
October 10th 2012 @ 11:10am
TC said | October 10th 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Southern Conference:
Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Geelong, Hobart, Wagga, Canberra, Illawarra, Auckland, Wellington.
Northern Conference:
Townsville, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Manly, Parra, Canterbury, Souths, Penrith, Balmain.
TC
October 10th 2012 @ 12:37pm
Dayer said | October 10th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
it won’t work ..e.g … those placed with a super team like the Storm will give storm easy premiership points. It would be unfair.
Just play each team once so all teams play for points fairly
October 10th 2012 @ 4:01pm
Tommygun said | October 10th 2012 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
The conference style system only pleases the weaker sides in a weak conference. It is completely unfair. Rugby adopted the system to promote more local derbies and therefore better ratings, spectators etc… Kiwi’s and South African’s hate the conference style system which saw the best placed Australian team, the Reds earn a home semi for coming 5th. Also teams like the Reds get to play weak sides like the Rebels and Force more regularly and get cheap points. This is a common theme among the Rugby threads on this site.
October 11th 2012 @ 2:40pm
nomis said | October 11th 2012 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
It’s only fair when the conference system is closed off
October 10th 2012 @ 4:09pm
Dogs Of War said | October 10th 2012 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
It’s never fair no matter what system you have in place. Best player for a team could be injured for half the season, or you get to play teams when all there best players are on origin duty. There are so many other variables in play that the comp will always have funny results coming up
October 10th 2012 @ 7:45am
KSI said | October 10th 2012 @ 7:45am | Report comment
Get rid of NSW Grand Final on GF day and replace with QLD Cup premier V NSW Cup Premier. As a QLD’er I have zero interest in NSW GF. This isn’t a day for NSWRL anymore.
I pretty much agree with other rest.
October 10th 2012 @ 12:40pm
Dayer said | October 10th 2012 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
I agree, I have no interest also, the concept of NSW club against QlD CLUB will be awesome, it will bring passion within the states.
October 10th 2012 @ 8:17am
Hardwick said | October 10th 2012 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Channel Nine just forked out about $1Bn for the rights – no chance of them accepting less games or origin on a low-rating night.
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October 10th 2012 @ 8:42am
Will Sinclair said | October 10th 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
This is true.
There is exactly zero percent chance of any changes in the number of teams, draw structure and game times in the next five years.
October 10th 2012 @ 9:44am
Rob9 said | October 10th 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Completely agree that the current hickldy pickldy draw is a farce. But I wouldn’t support everyone just playing each other once. I would get the competition up to 20 teams. Bring in Perth, the Central Coast, Brisbane 2 and demerge St George Illawarra to ensure the Gong has a fulltime NRL team again. With these 20 teams create 5 conferences of 4 teams based on their geographical location. For example you would have a Western Sydney conference consisting of Parramatta, Wests, Canterbury and Penrith. Throughout the season each team plays each other in the competition once (19 games) and second games are played against regional/conference rivals (3 games) for a 22 game season. Such a structure puts some meaning into the double up games as opposed to the current situation. These double up games are also the big ticket games that attract the crowds as they are held between regional rivals, therefor it’s good for the league (in selling the television product) and provides a chance for clubs to generate some substantial income. I would structure a finals system that uses the conferences to increase the meaning and value of the inter-conference games as well. Although it’s not the 100% ‘fare’ structure that the each team playing each other once configuration provides, there’s only an extra 3 games on top so there’s limited impact.
October 10th 2012 @ 10:28am
Tigranes said | October 10th 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
The NFL only has 16 regular season games, and it hasnt hurt their product – every game takes on a hell of a lot more importance. Admittedly the NFL has 32 teams.
I think both NRL and Super Rugby have too many games – both club/franchise and rep (i.e. SOO, Test Matches) – the amount of punishment on the human body can’t be good. Im not sure if more NRL teams is the answer, there are some questions about there being enough quality players.
Unfortunately Channel 9 has far too much influence over scheduling of games.
October 10th 2012 @ 10:35am
Schwever said | October 10th 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
While using any kind of conference does have some advantages such as guaranteeing areas will have a team in the finals and having more derby matches- it is less fair than the current NRL system. If you want an example ask anyone who follows any fo the big 4 US sports (NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB). eg. NFL 2010- in the National Conference- Seattle made the finals despite winning only 7 out of 16 matches while Tamap Bay and the NY Giants won 10 games and missed out cos’ Sea won the West Division.
This is because if you’re in a weak division it’s easier to win but also since you play the teams in your own divison/conference more often, if those teams are weak you have an easier draw.
So a conference system is actually less fair than a full league table. But that doesn’t mean I’m necessarily against- i think it was an obviously great idea in Super Rugby (more local derbies and guaranteee each country gets a team in the finals). Maybe when (or if) NRL gets 18 teams maybe you could have a Sydney Conference and The Rest(Perth, Brisbane, Ipswich/etc, NQ, GC, NZ, Melb, Canberra, Newc).
http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=div&season=2010-REG&split=Overall
October 10th 2012 @ 11:11am
Dogs Of War said | October 10th 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Just makes finishing the top of your group all that more important then really. Not to mention you have new trophies for being the conference champion rather than the minor premiership trophy. So you get 4 minor premiers in theory rather than the current one. Good for bragging rights as well.
October 10th 2012 @ 11:08am
Boz said | October 10th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Good article.
With eventual expansion, the only fair draw would be teams to play each other once. You could even have the draw made up for teams, and then just reverse the home grounds year after year. That way, everyone knows when their team is playing and who they are playing on what weekend years in advance. This could really build up rivalries between teams, and marketing departments would have a much easier time promoting things that have some sense of continuity.
With Origin – I think they need to bite the bullet and suspend the club competition while it is being played. I find my interest in the club football really wanes during that time, particularly being a Broncos supporter, as normally we are scheduled to play Melbourne during that time, and what could be a blockbuster, is often a pale imitiation.
To do that though, you need to play the Origin series over a much shorter time frame. Say in an 18 team comp, consisting of 17 rounds of football. After the 8th round weekend, Selectors name their teams, and they play a week from the following Wednesday, as they do now. After that, they should play again in another 10 days, On a Saturday night, then another 11 days later on the Wednesday night again. 3 days later – club football should start again on the Saturday. So in effect, it is 4 weeks from round 8 until the beginning of round 9.
During that time that should also have internationals between the pacific nations such as Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, PNG, as well as a New Zealand Origin.