With the AFL and pretty much every other league ending for the year, it’s time to turn the attention to the reporting season.
First cab off the rank is the AFL and its affiliated league releasing its participation data for 2012.
Total participation is up 6.81% compared to 2011, with 844,000 participants, and was the largest percentage increase since 2008.
On a state by state basis, the non-traditional states fared well with Queensland up 10% to 137,989, while New South Wales and the ACT are up 8.64% to 148,230. The Northern Territory recorded the highest state participation rate increase up 29% to 27,254 – 12% of the Territory’s population.
Only South Australia reported a drop, down 2.06%.
Auskick participation is up 9.44% to 182,000.
Female participation is up 43% – easily the highest growth sector for Australian football. Victoria alone accounts for 4,000 girls in Auskick, and 9,000 females registered as players with clubs.
AFL9′s, Australian football’s most recent incarnation, a 9-a-side game for both males and females, continues to grow its numbers with a massive 167% increase in participation numbers and now has over 12,350 registered participants.
International participation is also up 10% to 110,292.
In the AFLs newest target area, it’s reported that 36,000 juniors across 14 local government areas participated in Australian football, up 27% on last year.
Its important to note that to be counted as a participant by the AFL you must either be a registered player or complete a minimum six-week Auskick program.
“What we classify as a participant is a no-less-than-six-weeks paying customer. So they’re through our Auskick programs, through our clubs and our community programs,” said Dean Connors AFL NSW/ACT manager for Western Sydne.
Further details are not likely to be revealed until the 2012 AFL annual report is released in March next year.
Sources:
■October 16th, 2012 – “Participation numbers boom” – AFL.com.au
■October 16th, 2012 – “Female footballers on the rise” – AFL.com.au
■October 16th, 2012 – “Giant leap for participation” – gwsgiants.com.au
■October 16th, 2012 – “Record 29% increase in participation” – AFLnt.com.au
The Crowd Says (146) | Page 1 of Comments
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October 17th 2012 @ 3:04am
The_Wookie said | October 17th 2012 @ 3:04am | Report comment
For males, the Sydney AFL Health Check report put up some interesting figures when comparing participation of males between the age of 5-39 play or participate in Australian Football.
■Hobart 18.8%
■Adelaide 16.3%
■Darwin 16%
■Brisbane 7.1%
■Perth 14.4%
■Melbourne 12.5%
■Brisbane 7.1%
■Canberra 4.4%
■Sydney 3.3%
Auskick participation is UP 9.44% to 182,000. In the NSW/ACT Health check report, Auskick particpation in NSW/ACT alone is shown to be
■10,600 at Club Auskick (22%)
■21,000 in School Auskick (44%)
■16,400 in community Auskick (34%)
October 17th 2012 @ 10:01am
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Nice piece Wookie.
Would love to see state % for male participation as well, from memory NT did have the highest %, and TBH i am a bit surprised to see Hobart leading the way in the cities.
Pretty impressed with Brisbanes contribution of over 7% putting it closer and closer to the traditional states, unimpressed with Canberra, and IMO 20 years ago it would have been up there with Brisbane and possibly higher.
The auskick conundrum in the northern states is interesting, much more auskick is run outside normal club structures, which does not really exist in the southern states, and i did note in the NSW report that actual games were not played as much, but it was more emphasis on skills, i can tell you, that in auskick in WA, we do play a actual game, which the kids really look forwrad to.
October 17th 2012 @ 10:44am
clipper said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Surprised at Brisbane being so high. Sydney is interesting – you would find that out west the figure would be virtually nil, but around the east and inner city the figure would be higher. Justifies the inclusion of GWS to try and boost the figure – time will tell if it results in higher participation.
October 17th 2012 @ 10:54am
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:54am | Report comment
This is the problem in Sydneys west accoring to the report, actual club numbers have gone down slightly, although community and school auskick has gone up, in the codes stronger areas (northern and eastern suburbs ) there is around 6% growth from a already healthy base.
The transference from community auskick to club auskick is one of the big issues in Sydneys west.
October 17th 2012 @ 12:02pm
JamesP said | October 17th 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Which is a main reason why the new Giants (and Swans) Academies were set up – so that the kids finishing AusKick at age 12 had a pathway to go. I’d expect these Academies to be leveraging off the strong Aus Kick numbers and having a strong presence at the last level of Auskick…
October 17th 2012 @ 11:19am
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 11:19am | Report comment
Another interesting statistic regarding Brisbane/QLD, QLD have the 2nd most level 1 coaches of any state after Vic.
Thats quite impressive, and a pointer to the future.
They have also ranked whether sporting grounds are Australian football friendly, and QLD comes in 2nd again.
Australian football friendly grounds Vic/Q/WA/SA and then NSW.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=2148289
October 19th 2012 @ 5:55am
Bondy. said | October 19th 2012 @ 5:55am | Report comment
It ‘ll never happen Wook,your a major contact sport ,numbers rubbery. i noticed another sport recieved an increase in participation by 53% over the past decade cant remember which one though.
October 17th 2012 @ 6:01am
Anthony said | October 17th 2012 @ 6:01am | Report comment
Wookie – I am not sure what you mean when you say: “In the AFL’s newest target area…..” do you mean overseas there are 36,000 juniors? That would be amazing.
Of course when % is quoted it depends on the sport. If AFL has a 1% increase in, say attendances, that would be equivalent to 2% in NRL & 4% in A-league. It’ s all relevant to the actual number, rather than the % increase (or decrease)
October 17th 2012 @ 7:10am
The_Wookie said | October 17th 2012 @ 7:10am | Report comment
sorry that didnt come out properly, its meant to refer to the city of sydney.
As for overseas, of the 110,000 claimed particpants, you’ll find many of them are juniors, particularly involved in Kiwikick (NZ) and Footywild (South Africa), although I dont have specific numbers to hand.
October 17th 2012 @ 7:02am
nearpost said | October 17th 2012 @ 7:02am | Report comment
Interesting participation in AFL means you are involved in an organised sport.
For sports like football adults and kids often simply play themselves. At lunchtime, before school or after work. 3 v 3, 5 v 5 depending on how many players they have. Or simply shots in.
Rarely see any kids playing AFL in an unstructured way – other than kicking the ball back and to which seems a tad static and limited for participation and general fitness. Do kids and adults play AFL in unstructured ways across Australia?
What sort of games/skills do they practice/play?
October 17th 2012 @ 7:08am
The_Wookie said | October 17th 2012 @ 7:08am | Report comment
Not sure what parks and beaches you live near, but in SA/WA and Vic at least its not an usual sight. Kicking and marking are generally the go.
October 17th 2012 @ 9:41am
me, I like football said | October 17th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Can I call on fellow Roarers that before using the initialism of “AFL” ask yourself does the term “Australian Football League” in it’s place make sense?
Cheers, M,ILF
October 17th 2012 @ 9:54am
Strummer Jones said | October 17th 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Its another Americanisation laid down on Australia. They have NBL and NFL so we “must” have AFL and call the game AFL.
October 17th 2012 @ 9:59am
TC said | October 17th 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Agree with milf.
I can take a bit of shorthandism, but if we are obviously talking about the game as a whole, then we should use its correct name: Australian Football.
TC
October 17th 2012 @ 1:04pm
Rough Conduct said | October 17th 2012 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Precious much? The AFL market the game as ‘AFL’, so you can hardly blame people for following convention. At least ‘AFL’ is not ambiguous, no one would think that you are talking about any other sport than Australian Rules Football. RL, RU and Football all have to put up with misuse of their respective names, I don’t understand the sensitivity.
October 17th 2012 @ 2:08pm
TC said | October 17th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
What sensitivity? MILF is correctly pointing out that the AFL is the name of the national competition and the name of the governing body, and the correct name of the sport, if discussing it in general terms, is Australian Football.
http://afl.com.au/Portals/0/2012/AM_6967_0112_AFL_laws.pdf
Just as it is proper that you would correct someone for using the word “rugby” to talk about League – happens all the time on the Roar (that someone is corrected for that usage).
I’m not sure if you can blame marketing, I think it’s pig ignorance.
In the 1980s, I recall being forced to spend some time with my Northern cousins and I distinctly recall them using the expression “VFL” to describe Australian Football.
That wasn’t marketing – it’s ignorance and stupidity pure and simple.
The other unfortunate habit my Northern cousins had, at the time, was to say “aksed” instead of “asked”.
There was something definitely wrong with them (and don’t get me started on their incapacity to kick a footy).
The best thing that we more educated and cerebral posters can do on the Roar, is to correct poor language.
It is a service we provide free of charge. It’s not right that such people carry on being ignorant for the whole of their lives.
TC
October 17th 2012 @ 6:27pm
Rough Conduct said | October 17th 2012 @ 6:27pm | Report comment
The fact is that the AFL do market the game as AFL, why are you blaming the northerners when head office names the Queensland Australian Football body “AFL Queensland”? Don’t even start on ignorance, Victorians cannot even get the sport right let alone the competition, the amount of negative articles I have read from the Melbourne media about “Rugby” when they really mean Rugby League is unbelievable. RU’s image is tainted because the Victorian journalist is too stupid and or ignorant to realise that although technically correct, no one in Australia ever refers to Rugby League as Rugby. It is like describing an Argentinean as American, technically correct – but you just never would, you would sound like a complete fool. “But we didn’t realise there were two codes” – complete rubbish, of course you do, if not, you are even more stupid than I give credit for – it is the equivalent of saying “Oh, North Korea is a whole other country from South Korea? I didn’t realise”
Also, your capacity to “kick a footy” is continually overstated, you have one kick – the drop punt (2 if you count the hack off the ground), yet still manage to miss many set shots. Both codes of Rugby utilise many more than one kick, the drop kick and place kick for instance, a RU fly-half would put most AFL players to shame when it comes to overall control and accuracy of the ball from the boot.
October 17th 2012 @ 7:00pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
i am not going to argue about names or about kicking ability, i have my opnions and you have yours, its a circular argument and nobody will give any ground, but what i will ask for … is all those negative articles that you read, that came from the Melbourne media about rugby and/or RL.
I await all these articles/links !!.
October 17th 2012 @ 7:20pm
The Pivotonian said | October 17th 2012 @ 7:20pm | Report comment
What! One kick?! Drop punt, torpedo, checkside, snap makes four. Arguably more than that.
It’s funny because I could say equally say “you only have one pass/throw – yet still manage to miss teammates uncontested and only metres away from you”.
How often are fly-halves kicking when they are about to be mown down from beside or behind?
October 17th 2012 @ 7:51pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 7:51pm | Report comment
@the Pivotonian, …. just between you and me there is literally hundreds of ways to kick a ball beside a drop punt, and AF players of all grades do it reguarly, a new kick i have noticed in the last few years is the end over end kick that can be kicked from the boundary but in the last few rolls veers to either the left or right depending on way the ball is kicked or which side of the goals you are kicking from and rolls in for a goal.
I see kids practicing this sort of kicking all the time, and quite frankly they should be spending more time on their drop punts IMO
Don’t let RC see these.
October 17th 2012 @ 8:04pm
Rough Conduct said | October 17th 2012 @ 8:04pm | Report comment
A 5 minute online search reveals the following; I am not making this up.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/rugby-star-apologises-for-taunting-pm-20120912-25su6.html
http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/drunk-fans-may-be-to-blame-for-rugby-wee-row-20120216-1taie.html
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/2012-09-24/pngs-love-for-rugby-on-show-in-pms-xii-clash/1019554
October 17th 2012 @ 8:30pm
Rough Conduct said | October 17th 2012 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
Oh Wow Brewski! Amazing, have never seen that in any other sport! Oh wait…
October 17th 2012 @ 8:39pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
@ RC, you were the poster who stated that there is only one kick in Australian football, my post proves you wrong, your post proves nothing to do with your assertion.
Another case of sour grapes and ignorance from RC it seems.
October 17th 2012 @ 8:43pm
Rough Conduct said | October 17th 2012 @ 8:43pm | Report comment
Pivotonian, torps, snaps and ckecksides are all pretty regulation, in Rugby a snap is known as a box kick and checksides are usually called a banana.
As soon as a half breaks the line he is vulnerable to attack from all directions, amazingly he is is still able to function.
As with passing, really? Clutching at straws mate.
October 17th 2012 @ 10:14pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
@RC, RC said torps, snaps and checkside/banana are all regulation ……………..do you realise the stupidity of your statement, ….it was you who claimed that AF only uses the drop punt.
Some research would allow you to discover where the banana and drop punt originated from, and Matthew Johns does not kick a banana …he just thinks he can LOL, he has very little idea.
BTW your alleged 3 links from the Melbourne media included one from Perth and one from ABC National Radio, which is run from Sydney, ans they proved nothing anyway.
October 17th 2012 @ 10:31pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
@RC, a simple search would have revealed that both the drop punt and banana kick (called checkside in SA) were indeed invented by Australian footballers playing in the then VFL and SANFL many years ago.
In fact banana kicks are recorded in the 1890′s in the VFL, before Johns allegedly used it, and in fact before RL even existed. LOL
Australian footballers (Darren Bennett, Ben Graham, Rocca) now playing in the NFL are credited with introducing the drop punt to the NFL.
Pull the tin foil hat further down RC … LOL.
Jack Dyer is credited with the drop punt, although Collingwood on a 1910 tour of Tasmania also have a case
October 17th 2012 @ 10:47pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:47pm | Report comment
Sorry i can’t help myself, LOL, i am just gobsmacked a rugby or RL fan is ignorant enough to start telling people about kicking who have grown up kicking a football all their life in a myriad of ways.
Anyone who knows anything about AF, knows the banana is also the checkside, but here is our man telling us that they are one and the same ….. as if somehow we did not already know !!.
We know because we invented it. !!!
October 17th 2012 @ 10:52pm
Rough Conduct said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:52pm | Report comment
Yes Brewski, AFL invented every kick known to man, Juan Martin Fernandez is a massive Carlton fan. Facepalm.
Haha, three comments on the kicking thing, who are you trying to convince – yourself? The fact remains that the vast majority of kicks in an AFL game are simple drop punts, the kicking ability of AFL players is largely overstated.
October 17th 2012 @ 11:04pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 11:04pm | Report comment
Yep …facepalm is really about the extent of your argueing capacities.
As far as kicking goes, i never said drop punts were not the norm, but as far as simple goes …. it still seems to be beyond most rugby and RL players.
Run along now .. LOL.
October 17th 2012 @ 11:20pm
Rough Conduct said | October 17th 2012 @ 11:20pm | Report comment
Boom! Outstanding rebuttal Brewski.
October 17th 2012 @ 11:33pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 11:33pm | Report comment
Drop punt ……. Jack Dyer is credited with inventing the drop punt during his playing days with the Richmond Football Club.
Torpedo ………….. Australian rules footballer Gordon Rattray, who played his football with the Fitzroy Football Club between 1917 and 1928, is credited as the first player to use the torpedo punt.
Banana/Checkside ………… In the early 1890s, Allen Burns[1], who played Australian rules with the (then) Victorian Football Association club South Melbourne, was renowned for what seems to be an early version of the banana kick.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_kick
Keep posting RC, if you can follow, you may learn that Andrew Johns did not invent the banana … LOL
October 18th 2012 @ 2:13pm
Nostradamus said | October 18th 2012 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
Some journos say Rugby in Victoria when they mean RL – sure but not RL journos
RU fly-half is one player in Rugby who can kick – all AFL players have to kick I doubt if there are 5 players in a RL team can kick effectively because they are not required to – they are chosen for other reasons vive la difference…
October 18th 2012 @ 2:15pm
Nostradamus said | October 18th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
The greater pig ignorance is RL commentators who claim Andrew Johns invented the banana kick…
October 18th 2012 @ 5:22pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 18th 2012 @ 5:22pm | Report comment
The really sad thing is that even this numbnuttery of a debate (read: abusive pissing contest) is not even in the top 10 pieces of numbnuttery I have seen on this tab. Oy vey.
October 18th 2012 @ 6:02pm
Brewski said | October 18th 2012 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
Sorry you feel that way Nathan .. but here’s betting i could find numbnuttery debates scattered and strewn on every TAB on this site … pi$$ing contests make the world go round
October 17th 2012 @ 2:15pm
The Pivotonian said | October 17th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
It is ambiguous.
If I told you my brother ‘played AFL’ you should be impressed.
But then I could expand and tell you he ‘played AFL’ in D1 of the VAFA (huh?!), and maybe you would not be such.
There is the ambiguity.
October 17th 2012 @ 2:50pm
me, I like football said | October 17th 2012 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
RC, when you claim the AFL market the game as ‘AFL’ I guess you are refering to the ‘Play AFL’ logo. I cannot for the life of me work out why the AFL would do that except to think that perhaps it is a one word slogan “Play” bought to you by the AFL in all it’s logo glory. Whatever the case it’s very confusing and gives the wrong impression of the name of the sport, If you read the AFL’s media releases or formal documents or AD himself, Australian Football is never refered to as AFL.
October 17th 2012 @ 4:14pm
Timmuh said | October 17th 2012 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
Its not just that, most of the competitions and regional governing bodies are named AFL . AFL NSW/ACT as a governing body, AFL Cairns as a league and local body, etc. The AFL markets the game as AFL because the commission simply does not recognise the existence of the rest of the game as anything other than feeder and promotion for the AFL. The fact that the likes of AFL Tasmania are responsible for the game at every level except AFL level means nothing.
(It seems that) In the eyes of the AFL commission, the only reason any other league exists is for the benefit of the AFL. State, suburban and country leagues only importance is to feed players into the “system”.
October 17th 2012 @ 12:18pm
The Pivotonian said | October 17th 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
I am child of the 80s and 90s and never played Australian Football for a club, however played footy every lunch at school for 13 years. Most of the time this involves two small teams using the same goal posts, sort of half court basketball-style. The other option is just having shots, kick to kick, or marks up.
October 17th 2012 @ 12:25pm
Brewski said | October 17th 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
Yes, i think his post was a bit off a troll, there is always kids kicking a footy around at our oval, and plenty of scratch matches are always played, 3,4,5 a side etc involving light tackling, if not doing that, kids are always practicing their goal kicking from tight angles running the ball into the goals, pack marking end to end etc etc.
Kids make up millions of games involving footballs, soccer balls, rugby balls, tennis balls with masking tape is good for practicing batting against swing bowlling.
October 17th 2012 @ 9:48am
Redb said | October 17th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Some great numbers for football participation in this article. Auskick has to be one of this countries best sports programs for kids.
October 17th 2012 @ 10:37am
Cameron said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
When informed of the massive increase in Australian Football participation numbers, Craig Foster said he was delighted and vindicated – he always maintained that Australian Football would destroy AFL Football.
October 17th 2012 @ 10:42am
TC said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:42am | Report comment
The only danger on the horizon that the AFL faces, is itself, so there is merit in what Fos is saying (although really, he should just stick to soccer).
TC
October 17th 2012 @ 11:41am
Nostradamus said | October 17th 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Fos is a contrarian from way back who despises himself because he wasnt born in Rio or London or Florence where they play the “real game”. Here it is soccer to avoid confusion because Australian Rules Football goes back to when soccer was invented and codified in England not Melbourne so lets call it AFL and soccer to avoid these childish discussions..
October 17th 2012 @ 10:45am
Titus said | October 17th 2012 @ 10:45am | Report comment
Good story Wookie, any indication of full season, registered, weekend players so we can compare it to other codes?
October 17th 2012 @ 11:13am
me, I like football said | October 17th 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
I think you’ld find the other codes figures harder to find than the AFL.
October 17th 2012 @ 11:33am
The_Wookie said | October 17th 2012 @ 11:33am | Report comment
Probably not until the full annual report is released next year
October 18th 2012 @ 1:53am
Trick said | October 18th 2012 @ 1:53am | Report comment
Lol every AFL vs NRL topic always gets an insecure NRL troll to who likes to make AFL supporters feel bad so he feels better about the state of his own game. Sad really.
Rough conduct do you get enjoyment out of making AFL fans feel bad? Be honest? lol. Back to the bridge, troll
October 18th 2012 @ 1:33pm
Brewski said | October 18th 2012 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Unbelievable, RC posted that AFL players only kick drop punts, i post a video proving him wrong, then he posts a video showing a soccer player kick a curling ball, which has nothing at all to do with the topic of kicking oval shaped balls, he then claims that torpies, bananas and snaps are actually really regulation …. in effect defeating his own argument.
He is either completely ignorant, or a master troll, …my guess would be the first option.
And whats more, the 3 links he puts up, shows one to be Robbie Farrah telling the PM to hang herself, one about ST George players urinating in a change room in Perth, and the other from ABC Radio in Sydney, and he is upset because they mention the game as Rugby instead of RL once in each story.
October 18th 2012 @ 1:56pm
TC said | October 18th 2012 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Brewski
You and I are part of a group of Roarers who have had the opportunity to temporarily migrate from the Southern states to the Northern states, usually with Sherrin tucked under our arm.
In the spirit of brotherhood and forging new friendships, we’ve shared a kick of the leather footy with our Northern brethren, and only modesty and politeness disallows us from making it known to all and sundry the ineptness we have witnessed over the journey.
TC
October 18th 2012 @ 2:32pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
Wow TC, what a watertight argument, how could anyone possibly disagree with that tsunami of evidence.
Remember Australia’s Greatest Athlete? Remember a Queensland cricketer and a Queensland Rugby League player both beating the AFL bloke in the AFL kicking challenge? I wonder what happened there, how could such infidels possible manage to outperform a professional AFL player in the infinitely complex, sacred art of the drop punt? The point being, it’s just a kick, it is not mastering classical violin or an Olympic routine on the high bar, it’s just a kick. Many RU and RL (and even cricket) players have been mastering their skills since early childhood, this is not a skill exclusive to Victorians, the continual and successful recruiting of mature Rugby, Rugby League and Gaelic Footballers to the AFL tends to support this argument.
October 18th 2012 @ 2:42pm
Brewski said | October 18th 2012 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Thats where you don’t get it, kicking a Sherrin well is a sacred art, take QLDer Josh Drummond for EX who retired this year, his left foot was laser like in it’s ability to hit up a target up to 50m, with the ball travelling a couple of metres off the ground.
These types of skills are not needed in rugby.
Kicking is far more important in AF than rugby.
October 18th 2012 @ 7:17pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
No AFL player could make this shot, they simply do not have the all-round kicking skills….
I am sure AFL players are very competent kickers, I’m sure that across the whole team they are better kickers than RU or RL teams, but the point is that there is not a huge gap in kicking skills as you would have us believe.
October 18th 2012 @ 7:22pm
The Pivotonian said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:22pm | Report comment
Are you telling me Australian Football players can’t kick uncontested goals from 60 metres?!
October 18th 2012 @ 7:26pm
The Pivotonian said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:26pm | Report comment
By the way Rough Conduct, that doesn’t look like a drop punt to me either!
October 18th 2012 @ 7:30pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:30pm | Report comment
Drop goal mate, do you know what that means?
October 18th 2012 @ 7:32pm
The Pivotonian said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
You never mentioned “drop goal”, you said “No AFL player could make this shot”. Then again you also said “you have one kick – the drop punt” too.
The funny thing is that you try to claim other codes have the footskills of Australian Footballers, yet arguably the easiest skill to pick up of any of the football codes is the rugby pass.
October 18th 2012 @ 7:46pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
Is there any other football code that so readily recruits athletes from other sports that have never played the game before as much as AFL? The evidence suggests that Rugby, Rugby League, and Gaelic Footballers can all pick up the skills of AFL in a few years and win a premiership.
October 18th 2012 @ 7:46pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
RC, I don’t mean to seem churlish, but we saw two from about that distance (and worse angles) by Embley and Hurn during the West Coast-North Melbourne elim final this year. Absolutely sterling kick by Steyn without a doubt, though.
October 18th 2012 @ 7:48pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:48pm | Report comment
Two drop goals Nathan? Can you please provide links.
October 18th 2012 @ 8:05pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 18th 2012 @ 8:05pm | Report comment
No, I don’t have links, just my memory, alas. Had pretty good views on the range and angle from the second tier at Subi. I’m no one’s blind zealot so not trying to mess you around.
Shannon Hurn in particular, though, is notorious for beyond the arc cruise missiles.
But basically, I agree with this:
“I am sure AFL players are very competent kickers, I’m sure that across the whole team they are better kickers than RU or RL teams, but the point is that there is not a huge gap in kicking skills as you would have us believe.”
and disagree with this:
“No AFL player could make this shot, they simply do not have the all-round kicking skills….”
October 18th 2012 @ 9:19pm
Chino said | October 18th 2012 @ 9:19pm | Report comment
The fact of the matter is unlike in Rugby Union, Australian Footballers do not have to kick goals via the drop kick. This means that they have better options with which to score and pass with such as the Drop Punt as well as the Torpedo Punt at extreme range. Anyway the drop kick as a skill in Australian Football died out in 1960 and early 70s for a number of reasons. The main reason was the increased pace of play which favoured the drop punt as that is easier to kick when running at pace. The evolution of running game also reduced the necessity to kick the 60 to 70 metre drop kicks. Anyway Drop Kicks were never popular as a goal scoring option as they were perceived to be less accurate then other kicks.
Also another skill that has died out in Australian Football which is seen in Rugby Union is the place kick with the last one in the mid 1950s. In Australian Football was mainly used to kick goals particularly at very long range. The distance record for a kick in Australian Football is held by a place kick kicked by Albert Thurgood of Essendon who in 1899 kicked which went 95 metres.
Anyway in terms of distance it isnt routine but a number of recent players such as Ben Graham and Dustin Fletcher have made 70 plus metre kicks.
Anyway this is not to rubbish Steyn as I love Francois Steyn’s kicking and would love to have him at Essendon taking our kick ins.
October 18th 2012 @ 10:21pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
Thanks Chino, you have proved my point, AFL does not use a drop kick, nor a place kick, therefore having a less extensive kicking repetoir, less of an overall kicking game compared to Rugby halves. This was my original point.
October 18th 2012 @ 10:34pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 10:34pm | Report comment
You are missing the point Nathan, I am talking about drop kicks – this is a skill that AFL players do not practice, how could they possibly hit a 60m drop goal? They simply couldn’t.
October 18th 2012 @ 11:32pm
Bayman said | October 18th 2012 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
Roughy,
It depends on your point of view. It seems to me that Chino hasn’t proved your point at all. Nor, indeed, have you.
Goals kicked from 50-60 metres will be seen a hundred times a season in the AFL (that’s the competition, not the code). These days, of course, it won’t be a drop kick since various coaches decided decades ago that the game had evolved beyond such a kick (ironic given that today all games are played on a billiard table for a surface and a high percentage of kicks are made metres clear of any opposition – but there you are).
I can well remember guys in the 1960s/70s drop kicking goals, a la Steyn, or kicking the screw punt (torpedo to some) over very long distances to score (Malcolm Blight in the 1970s, North vs Carlton). In the SANFL back in the 70s at Adelaide Oval Noel Pettingill once drop kicked a goal which was measured at over 80 metres – I’ll admit, that was rare even then but 50 or 60 metres was common enough.
Today, the emphasis is on fast ball movement and reducing (hopefully) errors so the drop punt has become the kick of choice of coaches and, by instruction, players. The rules of Australian Football don’t insist on a certain type of kick being used so anything which is seen to waste time is eliminated – so no drop kick etc.
As for the assertion that rugby halves have a more rounded set of kicking skills than any AFL player I simply disagree. Most rugby, and RL, players I’ve seen have virtually no idea how to kick a ball, including the halves. Certainly, and more so in RL, there have been some outstanding goal kickers (e.g. El Masri, Barnes years ago) but in rugby they seem less prevalent unless they’re playing for New Zealand or winning World Cups for England.
On the comment about rugby, RL or Gaelic footballers being able to easily pick up the game you forget that much of Aussie Rules was originally based on the Gaelic game – with a bit of rugby thrown in. It’s one reason why there can be an international competition of sorts between Australia and Ireland – and why Tighe Kennelly was such a great kick of the ball.
Bottom line, you may be able to argue that the rugby codes have some aspects that the game of Australian Rules does not have but superior kicking ability is not one of them.
October 19th 2012 @ 1:18am
Brewski said | October 19th 2012 @ 1:18am | Report comment
AFL players don’t use the drop kick, but super rules players do, drop goals are worth 9 points.
October 19th 2012 @ 10:46am
Nathan of Perth said | October 19th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Probably am missing the point, RC, but it seems kind of six of one, half a dozen of the other.
October 18th 2012 @ 5:30pm
Nathan of Perth said | October 18th 2012 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
Don’t get too fancy there – most of us have seen the Wallabies play (and I’ve watched the Western Farce go about it), so don’t think you’re fooling anyone with the fancy kicking comments! And the Wallabies are putting all that kicking prowess on display WAY too often and to very little effect, no less!
October 18th 2012 @ 5:03pm
Brewski said | October 18th 2012 @ 5:03pm | Report comment
@TC, i would have to agree, in general, besides the odd exception, RU and RL players could not kick a ball, to save themselves, generally when describing R/RL players and their kicking …. the following terms come to mind ………… agricultural, finger breaking mongrel, helicopter, up country punt, etc.
Although i must say that having played AF with a number of guys who have come across from RU, they seem to be better than RL, and have a bit more of an idea, soccer players on the other hand tend to have a better non preferred foot than RU players, however struggle with the actual dropping of the ball correctly onto the foot.
Gaelic footballers also have struggled but an exception seems to have been Marty Clarke from Collingwood, who seemed to pick up kicking rather quick.
October 19th 2012 @ 2:01pm
TC said | October 19th 2012 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Yes, I’ve met and enjoyed a kick with rugby full backs (playing at a good standard) who were excellent kicks and could do pretty good torps with a leather footy.
My only proviso is that they were good off a few steps kicking deliberately, they were far less effective kicking a footy running full pelt, or hitting a target off a step target unseen, etc. (quick intuitive kicks)
Our point is not about whether you will find good kicks in the rugby codes (you will, to varying degrees, and the very best are excellent, and they definitely deserve our respect), our point is more about the broader population and their capacity to kick a footy, including those playing rugby codes where they are not required to kick regularly.
TC
October 18th 2012 @ 2:00pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
“he posts a video showing a soccer player kick a curling ball, which has nothing at all to do with the topic of kicking oval shaped balls”
Are you all there Brewski? That was a Rugby player kicking a Rugby ball.
October 18th 2012 @ 2:08pm
Brewski said | October 18th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
I agree, it was a rugby player kicking a banana, my mistake, i was thinking of another video i saw.
October 18th 2012 @ 1:45pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
You lot should be thankful that you have people on this forum to keep the levels of Victorian Hubris in check, lest it be allowed to spiral out of control and reduce AFL discussion to the same level as the myopic and delusional ramblings of the Melbourne ‘footy’ media. If you cannot handle inter-code discussion – scarf-up and join your mates on an AFL forum, otherwise, stop your whining and deal with the fact that you are on an Australian sports forum.
October 18th 2012 @ 2:17pm
Nostradamus said | October 18th 2012 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
I note Subsection marked AFL (Roar based in Newcastle??)
October 18th 2012 @ 4:52pm
Timmuh said | October 18th 2012 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
Which is quite annoying. If I want to write an article on a state or local league, there is no place to put it. It would not be “AFL”, nor is it “Other Sports”. Really, this article does not belong under “AFL”, as vety few of the players actually play at that level. It is presumably based on figures as released by the AFL as the governing body though.
October 22nd 2012 @ 9:03pm
CallMeeAl said | October 22nd 2012 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
This is a major flaw of a supposed cross code website. That and seemingly absent intelligent moderation judging by the liberties afforded this Rough Conduct person.
Reading through and I can’t help but laugh given that I’m yet to see Aust Football using Rugby (either) kicking coaches. Tackling – yes. Kicking – no. Wallabies and ABs have used .AF kicking coaches. ‘Nuff David really.
October 18th 2012 @ 2:18pm
Brewski said | October 18th 2012 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
It seems to me, that you are the one that cannot handle intercodal discussion, when the facts are put to you, historical facts regarding kicks and where they originated from ….you just post ” facepalm ”
I would be happy to review any historical info regarding kicks and their origins, and how they are used in the various codes.
There are very good reasons why the All Blacks use Australian footballers as their kicking coaches, why the NFL recruit Australian footballers as kickers/punters, and why playing AF has lead to the different style and variety of kicks that we currently have, that are currently used in other codes
And as far as Melbourne hubris .. i am not Victorian born, grew up, or lived their for any substantial period of time.
October 18th 2012 @ 7:44pm
Anthony said | October 18th 2012 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
“drop goal mate. Do you know what that means?”
Mate = usual term Aussies use for a close friend, someone you can rely on, a person who will support you.
A very Aussie term – usage almost as old as Australian Football. Part of the culture of being an Aussie. In Australia Aussie Rules & mateship are valued as part of our history & culture – except if you follow the rugbies, when mate is part of the culture, but not Australia’s Game, it seems
October 18th 2012 @ 10:50pm
Rough Conduct said | October 18th 2012 @ 10:50pm | Report comment
The English language is Australia’s official language, it is the height of Victorian Hubris to suggest AFL is the footballing equivalent to our official language – seriously, you must be joking?
There is no other sport on the planet that is so much centred in a single city or province as AFL is in Melbourne / Victoria
October 18th 2012 @ 10:54pm
The Pivotonian said | October 18th 2012 @ 10:54pm | Report comment
Considering it is by far the major sport in four of Australia’s six states I beg to differ.
Oh, and in before you bring up a couple of counties in England, the back blocks of New Zealand, and Papua New Guinea.
October 19th 2012 @ 1:08am
Brewski said | October 19th 2012 @ 1:08am | Report comment
A province !!! … LOL …………….. you mean like Hutt River Province.
October 19th 2012 @ 1:22am
Brewski said | October 19th 2012 @ 1:22am | Report comment
Its not even a proper drop punt …LOL
@ RC, do you call this a drop punt ?.
October 19th 2012 @ 11:10am
TC said | October 19th 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Funnily enough, at the end of that clip, there’s a clip of Nathan Buckley showing how to kick a drop punt correctly, and also a clip of Vossy nailing a shot from 60+ m.
TC
October 19th 2012 @ 11:30am
Brewski said | October 19th 2012 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Yes i noticed that, and in reference to the clip i posted, i was probably a bit harsh on the poor bloke, but that is one ugly kicking style and not the correct way to kick a drop punt.
As i stated earlier, kicking a Sherrin or Burley the correct way, is a right of passage for thousands of boys, and now girls, and IMO bordering on a sacred art.
October 19th 2012 @ 1:52pm
TC said | October 19th 2012 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
Brewski
Agree on the sacredness of handling and kicking a red leather footy – it’s what sets us apart from the rest of the world.
The good news is that with the expansion of Auskick, more and more boys and girls are learning to kick a footy correctly, and that can’t be a bad thing.
TC
October 19th 2012 @ 3:05pm
Rough Conduct said | October 19th 2012 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
TC, do you know what the stat is for goal kicking accuracy (shots/goals) in the AFL? It must be very high considering the hundreds of years of kicking refinement and perfect technique used?
October 19th 2012 @ 2:05pm
Rough Conduct said | October 19th 2012 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
Yet Rugby and Gaelic Footballers who have never kicked a Sherrin in their lives can be recruited as mature age rookies and reach the very pinnacle of the sport after only a short time playing the sport. Sacred art indeed.
October 19th 2012 @ 6:50pm
Brewski said | October 19th 2012 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
RC, even the biggest infidel with 666 tattooed on him, can, with time, patience and understanding, learn the sacred art of kicking the Sherrin, usually takes a couple of years and even then the flaws are quite obvious.
But quite frankly i would not expect you to understand that.
October 19th 2012 @ 8:45pm
Fitzy said | October 19th 2012 @ 8:45pm | Report comment
Yet it takes just 2 seconds to learn the very ancient art of rugby passing. Give it up trolls your not going to win, converts to AFL learn to kick because their professional who train daily for hours with coaches. Your arguments do not add up when you take this into account.
October 20th 2012 @ 5:09pm
Rough Conduct said | October 20th 2012 @ 5:09pm | Report comment
Hardly a sacred art then is it?
Any word on those accuracy stats? They must be astronomical…
October 21st 2012 @ 2:14pm
Brewski said | October 21st 2012 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
I would have no idea on goal kicking stats, that mey be something that yopu have an interest in !!.
What i can tell you, is that the Sherrin is a leather football that has been that way for well over a hungred years, it is not synthetic or is made of non-slip grip material like a rugby ball, the Sherrin when wet gets extremely slippery.
What i can also tell you is goal kicking in AF may be on much tighter angles, may not hit the post like other codes and then be ruled a goal and AF players do not use a big golf tee to set the ball up for shots at goal. AF players may be tackled from all angles, and also on the run at differing speeds when shooting for goal.
I might also add that in last nights rugby, not one try was scored, and when the scoring zone is around 70metres wide, that is a pretty abysmal stat in itself.
October 19th 2012 @ 1:14pm
yewonk said | October 19th 2012 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
October 19th 2012 @ 1:49pm
TC said | October 19th 2012 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
heh, heh, that’s a decent rugby catch all right.
TC
October 19th 2012 @ 4:33pm
Breezy said | October 19th 2012 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
And he didn’t need any of his mates to push him up either.
October 19th 2012 @ 6:52pm
Brewski said | October 19th 2012 @ 6:52pm | Report comment
I don’t follow rugby that closely, but i would be interested to know why that introduced the rule of being allowed to hoist your mate up, i don’t seem to remember it always being that way.