Damian Irvine says stop the poaching
Roar Guru By Curtis Woodward, 23 Oct 2012 Curtis Woodward is a Roar Guru & Live Blogger
- Tagged:
- ARL, international rugby league, NRL, NZRL, Rugby League
The New Zealand Warriors have made two grand finals in ten years and their national side won the 2008 World Cup. So why are they still on struggle street across the ditch?
Most rugby league administrators would love to have the untapped markets the Warriors have at their fingertips. The list goes on with Christchurch, Wellington, Hamilton and Dunedin barely touched by the Warriors or the New Zealand Rugby League.
Yet the Warriors are still considering a home game in Australia next season.
Forget the opportunities these cities offer for a moment.
Consider the nirvana of young talent coming through the system at the Warriors. This is seriously just the tip of the iceberg if things are done right.
Everyone wants and expects NZRL and the Warriors to be juggernauts in the rugby league world.
Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks chairman Damian Irvine added his two cents.
“The Warriors have an incredibly unique position. We talk in our game of ‘one team towns’ and all of their advantages yet the same doesn’t seem to be driven as an advantage for the Warriors” Irvine told FootySocial.com.au.
“The job for the Warriors has been made very difficult by the different ownerships over the years. However now they have a really sound administration, CEO and ownership. I think most in the game, myself included, expect them to really start harnessing the massive catchments both in terms of on-field talent and customer base.”
Irvine added that Australia’s thirst for islanders is eroding the game in New Zealand.
“Why we as a game would want to cannibalise the amazing natural talent in New Zealand and the islands by poaching every talented junior and turning them into Australians is beyond me,” he said.
“Australia is strong enough to field three World Cup league sides we always hear, yet our admins over the past twenty years have constantly bent eligibility rules in order to suit ourselves.
“To the detriment of our sport not only in the island nations and New Zealand, but locally at international level also.”
Has the problem been inaction on the part of the Warriors and the NZRL?
Or does the problem stem from almighty Australia?
Irvine believes it’s the latter.
“It’s not cool for a very powerful nation like ours, the most powerful, to keep picking the best kids from the playground just because we want to win easier. That isn’t the Australian way or the way we were brought up as a sporting nation,” Irvine added.
“Stop picking New Zealanders, Fijians, Samoans and Tongans and any other nationalities for our national teams. If they are not getting picked they will soon play for their own nation and hopefully want to prove something.
“Thus creating very strong, interesting, broadcastable international rugby league. Provincial and International union is ripe for the taking at present. We should be better positioned to make a huge play for their market than we are.”
Like all of us, Irvine is speaking as a rugby league fan only wanting the best for the game in New Zealand and around the globe.
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- Explore:
- ARL, international rugby league, NRL, NZRL, Rugby League
October 23rd 2012 @ 4:17am
peeeko said | October 23rd 2012 @ 4:17am | Report comment
firstly i would like to know how many ex warriors players have moved to the UK super league over the last ten years? i would say more than any other club by a mile due to the fact that a PI passport means you dont count as an import. that is probably the reason why the warriors have underachieved.
i think Irvine is confusing the warriors and NZ national teams here- they are 2 totally different issues. plenty of aussies have played for the warriors over the last few years and had a positive impact on the team eg luck, tate, price and maloney.
as for PI players – why are they more entitled to play for NZ than Australia? MAny PI families move to NZ for economic reasons as do a lot of kiwis move to Australia.
As stated many times their are plenty of kiwis in the national side that have never lived in NZ and some such as Fien and Brent Webb had no or very limited heritage.
i think there should be an age cut off for playing for Australia – if you moved here before say 15 then you are entitled to play for Australia or NZ its your choice,
no one really makes a point that Rangi Chase is playing for England? he has been living there as an import for a couple of years- that doesnt make you a pom. same goes for clint greenshieldsd playing for France
October 23rd 2012 @ 4:34am
Johnno said | October 23rd 2012 @ 4:34am | Report comment
The All Blacks coach steve Hansen was complaining about this 2 yesterday. The kiwis are no better than the aussies is both rugby codes.
Let’s see Nathan Fien an aussy, and all the kiwis born in OZ, or who moved there and played for warriors, then the kiwis. Brent Webb I think as 1 example. Plus tongans like Konrad Hurrall a super talant who will proably play for the Kiwis next year was a star for warriors this year at 21. He is born in tonga. Plus let’s see, Frank Pritichard, Jason Nitinggale, Gerard Beale, the Cayless brothers, all these players were born in OZ not NZ,. And Shaun Kenny Dowall.
Plus Lesley Vainakolo a superstar winger born in Tonga, Plus Richard Swain born in Tamworth.
Daniel Irvine too me is acting out of touch too , too modern immigration to both OZ and NZ of players from pacific, and also form each country on both sides of the Tasman. Plenty of born aussies of kiwi heritage, who as shown have pride in there heritage and want to play for NZ.
October 23rd 2012 @ 6:50am
Sailosi said | October 23rd 2012 @ 6:50am | Report comment
Give me a break. There are less than 10 Pacific Island born players in the NRL. I wish people would stop carrying on about poaching Island players. Players have every right to represent the nation where they were born, educated and earn their living,
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:04am
Crosscoder said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:04am | Report comment
Damien Irvine certainly has the game at heart.He is also one great club adminstrator,getting the Sharks into the long term survival position, they are now in.
Simple solution,you are born in a country,you represent that country.The dilution,confusion over player eligibility is one of the biggest blights on the game.Seeing Fein and Webb play for the kiwis,made me wince,especially wartching them do the Haka.
Then perhaps we would have a far far stronger Tonga,Samoa,NZ,even Fiji(Uate).
Whatever needs to be done,to ensure some semblance of uniformity and clarity in eligibilty for country, must be done,now not later.
Else we end up with ludicrous situations such as , born in Kempsey. Therefore a Queenslander.
Based on my ancestral background, if I was good enough and pretty enough, I could have played for Australia,Germany or France.
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:41am
steve b said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Bloody well said Crosscoder need to add nothing ,got it in one ,cheers !!
October 23rd 2012 @ 2:10pm
sheek said | October 23rd 2012 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
This is ridiculously simplistic. I had no choice in where I was born.
I was born in PNG at a time when it was a colony run by the Australian govt, who my father worked for. My parents are Australian & Australian born & all my grandparents are Australian & Australian born. While my great grandparents (c. mid-1850s) emigrated from Ireland & England respectively as young children.
Indeed, apart from the Aborigines & Torres Straight islanders, we’re all emigrants from somewhere else.
I’m as Australian as anyone else born here to Australian nationality parents.
People come from all over the world seeking a better life in Australia (like boat people). That is not the problem, the problem is those who use residency for their own convenience & rather than show appreciation for the opportunity this country has given them, continue to refer to themselves as being from something else.
You can be proud of your heritage, be it Irish, British, Samoan, Tongan, Italian, Greek, Lebanese or whatever. But not at the expense of thinking yourself Australian first.
It is these people we need to send back to wherever. Even Kiwis!
October 23rd 2012 @ 4:31pm
Crosscoder said | October 23rd 2012 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
Well then PNG could be your first choice if you so choose.If you opt not to ,then by all means be a fair dinkum sunworshipping,Aussie and be eligible to play for Oz.
All it means is the first choice option can be applied.At present ,the current situation is a dog’s breakfast.
I agree with your point on arrivals utilising residency for their own aims in sport and indeed for selfish reasons ,other than wanting to really be part of this country’s social fabric.
The very reason Lebanon became a rl country of sorts,is due to people of lebanese descent initially playing for that country (RLWC2000),thereby establishing the game there ,enabling Lebanese citizens to be able to represent
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:01pm
peeeko said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
one of the best commments i have read in ages
October 23rd 2012 @ 8:19am
Sailosi said | October 23rd 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
If we had play where your born the island teams would be decimated. In the last world cup there was a group consisting of Tonga, Samoa and Ireland that had only 12 players representing the country of their birth.
October 23rd 2012 @ 4:32pm
Crosscoder said | October 23rd 2012 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
It s a first choice option,others can be added.The eligibility criteria has to start somewhere.
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:41am
Tiger said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Nz have lost two players, tamou who emigrated to aus as a child and teo who is a turncoat Who played for Samoa. All this talk about tubing every young islander or kiwi into an Australian is a load of nonsense. Kiwis pick anybody who has looked at nz, Konrad hurrell will be the next player they pick who is not a New Zealander.
October 23rd 2012 @ 8:05am
oikee said | October 23rd 2012 @ 8:05am | Report comment
It is what everyone knows and has been saying for years. Australia has the strongest pool to draw from yet we still pick islanders and Kiwis who could be playing for their own nations to improve the international game.
We need a leader like Andrew Demetriou who would be only to happy to fix the problem, yet our code is run by short sighted fools and dinosaurs.
Mateo, Tamou, Hayne, Uate, Teo and others should have been encouraged to play for Samoa Tonga, Fiji and NZ. Until we find someone who is willing to grow the international game, our code will wither and rot on the vine.
It only takes 1 person, just one to be passionate about the international game and it will improve.
They also have to expand origin, bring in a exile team will even be ok. Do something, dont just sit on your hands and do nothing.
We all could do that, nothing, is that what they get paid for doing, our leaders, doing nothing.
Think about that.
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:02pm
peeeko said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
Mateo and Hayne are born and bread and lived most of their lives in Sydney
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:20pm
peeeko said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:20pm | Report comment
how about the Qld great Petero who was born in Fiji?
October 23rd 2012 @ 8:53am
Angry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 8:53am | Report comment
You guys that are commenting obviously dont know whats going on at the junior level in regards to player poaching or you wouldnt be making these embarrassing comments. Take it from someone who follows the game at all levels and you would understand what Irvine is saying! No I’m not giving you the easy option of telling you what I’m talking about either….. Do your own homework before making ill informed comments! Irvine is %100 correct!
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:03pm
peeeko said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:03pm | Report comment
please explain a bit further
October 23rd 2012 @ 8:59am
sledgeross said | October 23rd 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Oiks, but players like Mateo and Hayne are also “Aussie”. Ive got no problem with young blokes with dual eleigibility representing one country when they are younger, and then playing for Aus/NZ/GB later if they are good enough. The fact remains that origin aside, the pinnacle would be to play for the Roos or kiwis.
October 23rd 2012 @ 12:31pm
oikee said | October 23rd 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
It is the pinnacle because it is made that way. Hayne and Mateo dont play for the kangaroos now, and they cant play for Tonga or Fiji as they still have ambitions to play for Australia, both have played for their other nation.
This is the part that stinks, it weakens international league and nobody knows how to fix the problem, probably because nobody cares.
That is the point i am making, we need someone in the game, running the ARLC or a CEO who cares enough to fix this mess. Andrew Demetriou would be that man if he was running our game because he is doing this for the AFL now, bringing a international game through for other nations, it might be small, but i am sure one day it will be huge.
Rugby league on the other hand is eating itself alive, i have said this many times to only be dismissed, well look at our international game, hardly alive, on life support outside our top 2 international teams. England is struggling, other nations are struggling with no support from Australia, they ought to be ashamed of what they have done to the international game. Look back a decade, the tours and games played in the UK, now look at our weak international game. pathetic.
Union is where we should be now. yet we have not progressed at all.
October 24th 2012 @ 1:55pm
duecer said | October 24th 2012 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
oikee – you’re spot on there – there used to be a time when international league was strong, but it’s not in NRL’s interest for it to happen again.
October 23rd 2012 @ 9:50am
View from the hill said | October 23rd 2012 @ 9:50am | Report comment
Irvine is 100% right. So desperate to not lose internationals they can’t even see they are killing the value of international league along the way.
Remember when the Kangaroos played the USA? A great opportunity to showcase the code to a new audience.
Instead the Kangaroos kept driving their kick offs over the touchline to get the scrum restart & make sure the USA had no ball & had to defend as much as possible. The USA got flogged & league dropped off the USA radar again.
That’s the sort of mentality that underpins the self centred and superficial thinking that dominates in rugby league in Australia.
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:47am
Rob9 said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:47am | Report comment
???? The Tomahawks almost caused the upset of international RL history in that game. They were winning something like 24-6 at halftime to eventually go down 24-36. RL was never on the (serious) radar in the US so how could it have dropped off?
If anything we did them a favour by showing up with (what was rumoured to be) a seriously hungover team to allow them to get within 12 points of a team that had just smashed GB (a propper flogging) to capture the Tri Nations title.
Taking that game to Philly showed that the ARL has some interest in showcasing the game in markets that really know next to nothing about the game. I agree we should head there more often but when did NZ or England last decide to put on an exhibition match in the States against the Tomahawks?
October 23rd 2012 @ 12:31pm
View from the hill said | October 23rd 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Maybe all I remember is the 2nd half. I’m sure the field was not the full width but rather than play some league to beat the USA they resorted to taking a cheap advantage to rub out the contest. When push comes to shove the powers & players in rugby league in Australia will always take self interest over doing any greater good. Fair enough in Origin & NRL but just self centered when the ARL could put out three Kangaroos teams & should be helping encourage international league. Australia’s selfishness is killing international league and resorting to those sort of kick offs on a small size field against the minnow Tomahawks was symptomatic of it.
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:27am
nzmate said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
International union is ripe for the taking? it would be good for him to qualify this statement. Countries outside of Australia are not struggling so, to interpret a currently dysfunctional organisation and poorly performing team (in the wallabies) with international rugby – in general, is a touch optimistic. I would argue international league could be doing much better but having better representation of islander players in island teams would not greatly increase the reach of international league, particularly when the teams may only play one game every two years and there is limited domestic competition.
October 23rd 2012 @ 12:34pm
oikee said | October 23rd 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Union is not in any danger from league, we would hang ourselves before ever being able to grow our game.
Our administration has no brains, zero brain power to run a international comp.
Maybe John O’neil might be ripe for the picking to run our code.
October 23rd 2012 @ 1:53pm
Curtis Woodward said | October 23rd 2012 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Its time for new blood. I’m sick of seing the same old (and I mean old) administrators playing musical chairs. NEW BREED! (Greenberg/Irvine etc)