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All Black gripes about Australia poaching their players have been met with both astonishment and wry grins.
New Zealand coach Steve Hansen is fuming about Kiwis being “pinched” after Auckland product Mike Harris kicked the Wallabies to a surprise 18-18 Test draw in Brisbane on Saturday night.
Hansen called for the Australian Rugby Union to get its house in order and stop stealing players after he was asked whether Harris’s display embarrassed the NZRU’s talent identification system.
“It’s time you start developing your players in your own country,” he responded.
A stunned Harris returned serve on Monday by hinting at hypocrisy from the All Blacks who have consistently selected Pacific Islanders in the past, and also played former Australian under-21 halfback Steve Devine a decade ago.
“I was a bit surprised by Steve’s comments,” the 24-year-old Harris told AAP.
“It’s been going on for as long as rugby has been professional, and maybe even further back as well.”
Harris wasn’t the only former New Zealand underage player in the Wallabies team at Suncorp Stadium as prop Sekope Kepu also defected after failing to crack a Super Rugby start.
It was Queensland coach Ewen McKenzie who sparked the conversion of both and he believes New Zealand’s rugby strength will continue to see overlooked aspiring products cross the ditch.
“They’ve got a lot of players,” McKenzie told AAP. “They’ve probably got too many players in some positions.”
A five-eighth or inside centre, Harris was a member of the Blues wider training group while Sydney-born, south Auckland-raised Kepu was outside the Chiefs’ contracted-player list.
McKenzie watched with more than pride when Harris kicked five penalties from five attempts and also made a fine fist of fullback against the All Blacks.
“I did have a bit of a giggle when he was kicking goal after goal – just as well we brought him over,” he told AAP.
“When I first spoke to Mike he was in the wider training group for the Blues, he wasn’t on the fast-track to anywhere. He had three guys in front of him to play Super Rugby.
“It’s worked out well for him.”
Eligible to play for the Wallabies through an Australian-born grandmother, Harris said he had no regrets.
“As an aspiring rugby player you always want to be playing at the next level and if New Zealand had offered me a Super Rugby jersey things might have been different,” he said.
“I’m very thankful to get the chance to play for the Reds and Wallabies.”
© AAP 2013- Explore:
- All Blacks, Mike Harris, Rugby Union, wallabies
October 23rd 2012 @ 5:48am
Billy Bob said | October 23rd 2012 @ 5:48am | Report comment
We are all astounded.
To return logic.- it’s allowed by the laws isn’t it?
And if it isn’t, did the ref see it? No?
Then it’s okay,
I personally wish Mike had played in Australia since his debut in the Tiboburra under 8 wombats, but he didn’t. I accept where he legally comes from.
If anyone doesn’t like it they should work to change the rules. Not whine about it after their team’s victorious romp around the rugby world has been interrupted.
Get a bit of gratitude, sir.
October 23rd 2012 @ 9:52am
Mac said | October 23rd 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Thought it was kinds funny that smh had in today’s sports section photos of Hansen and Henry’s hand picked foreigners. It seems that they picked quite a few non Welshmen when they were both coaching Wales. Glass houses.
October 23rd 2012 @ 10:53am
Will Lawton said | October 23rd 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
The myth that the Kiwis take all the PI players is a MYTH. The following stats, published on”rugby365″ a year ago, should have exposed this myth but apparently Irish Australians are still only semi-literate. The following passports were representing at the IRB RWC Lottery of 2011:
Exporters
38: New Zealand
13: Australia, South Africa
6: Argentina, England
5: American Samoa, Samoa
4: Tonga
3: Fiji
2: Hong Kong, USA, Zimbabwe
1: Burkina Faso, Canada, Cote d’Ivoire, Israel, Kenya, Mexico, Scotland, Uzbekistan
0: France, Georgia, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Namibia, Romania, Russia, Wales
New Zealand export by far the most. 15 New Zealand-born players play for Samoa. Three Samoan- born players play for New Zealand. More New Zealanders played against NZ than play for NZ. This has been true for every version of the IRB Lottery to date.
Importers
15: Samoa (all from New Zealand)
12: USA
11: Italy
10: Japan
9: Tonga
8: England
7: Australia, Scotland
5: Canada, Fiji, Namibia, Wales
4: Ireland, New Zealand
2: France, Russia
1: South Africa
0: Argentina, Georgia, Romania
The Shaghai Doctor
October 23rd 2012 @ 6:13pm
biltongbek said | October 23rd 2012 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
So for every one impoort, we export 13.
It is understandable that there are so many New Zealanders playing for Samoa. The reality is the second tier nations should actually be on a seperate list, it is really the first tier nations that must be queried.
Importers such as England (8), Italy (11), Australia (7), scotland (7), Wales (5) and Ireland (4).
You could still excuse Australia as they export more than they import.
October 23rd 2012 @ 5:51am
Bazza all black supporter said | October 23rd 2012 @ 5:51am | Report comment
Yep, a bit silly from our coach.
It’s a modern world and if we can afford to lose Harris etc…
Though I enjoy hansens willingness to make comments after Ted was quite the wry gentlemen – will take us and others on this site a while to understand Hansen will say what he means and mean what he says.
You go Harris, if oz is right for you, then more luck to you.
October 23rd 2012 @ 6:19am
moaman said | October 23rd 2012 @ 6:19am | Report comment
On the face of it; I have no problem atall with Hansen’s response to a specific question.Does Harris’s selection for Australia embarrass NZ’s ‘Talent Identification systems’?…er….no—he is still miles away from being picked for the ABs and it is highly unlikely he would have been were he still eligible.
Hansen’s reply was also on the money.Australia DOES need to implement systems to develop more International class players.Many Australian Roarers would agree with that I’m sure.
October 23rd 2012 @ 6:53am
Red Kev said | October 23rd 2012 @ 6:53am | Report comment
He may not be close to an ABs jersey but JK would leap all over Harris for Auckland. That is a failure of the talent identification system.
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:06am
moaman said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
RK….Three years ago (when Harris jumped ship) who knows wwhich players were ‘identified’?
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:15am
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:15am | Report comment
2 years ago – Harris was in the Blues wider training squad, but was behind Luke McAlister firstly, and the likes of Stephen Brett and Lachie Munro. If the latter two had missed out, there’s a chance they’d have been recruited instead. There aren’t unlimited places for NZ based players and the Australian franchises can offer more money, so describing it as a failure is too far, IMO.
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:26am
Darwin Stubbie said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:26am | Report comment
That’s exactly right …. I was home that year and took in Nth Harbour v Hawkes Bay and no-one in that Harbour backline stood out as anything other than devoid of ideas … The facts were he was an average player playing for a province that has been struggling for years – there were plenty of 2nd 5s around across the NPC performing better than him and they we the ones picked up by the SR teams … Even now the Blues would only be showing an interest if he was still around due to Nonu jumping ship
Jerry’s comment below is on the money this isnt about Harris and it will become more pertinent if the ARU start to relax their sides eligibility quotas … It’s obvious the Force are going to struggle and probably require a similar set up to the Rebels … How will sides taking the easy option of buying NPC talent help Aust player development ?
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:27pm
IronAwe said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:27pm | Report comment
Not that its the right course of action, but surely young kids in Australia will be inspired to play rugby when they watch their state team succeed no matter where the player hails from? As I said, its not the best solution, but I really don’t think it will do more harm than good.
October 23rd 2012 @ 6:41am
El Gamba said | October 23rd 2012 @ 6:41am | Report comment
More ridiculousness from across the ditch.
October 23rd 2012 @ 6:42am
Desvarta said | October 23rd 2012 @ 6:42am | Report comment
I have no problem with Harris playing for the Wallabies as he never would have been an All Black. However his comment about NZ taking polynesian players to play for the ABs is abit wide of the mark. Sure NZ have had heaps PI players, but they didnt get those rugby skills playing in Apia, they were slowing managed and skilled over many many years in NZ – at NZs cost. There are the odd exception but 99% are like that. Australia however have taken players managed and skilled in NZ and then called them Wallabies. But hey any player that is not prepared to put in the work, get better and get a NZ super rugby contract, then decides oh, nah, thats too hard ill go to Oz instead and play for the Wallabies in a year YOUR WELCOME TO HAVE and IS NOT KIWI….
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:05am
moaman said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:05am | Report comment
Harris isn’t quoted in the article commenting on polynesian players.
October 23rd 2012 @ 10:35am
ABlacks Fan said | October 23rd 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
I can’t help it but point it out the your comments re PI players
“…NZ have had heaps PI players, but they didnt get those rugby skills playing in Apia, they were slowing managed and skilled over many many years in NZ – at NZs cost…”
I’m sorry DESVARTA but I don’t agreed with the NZ cost and the skills part….see you either good at doing anything in life or not. Almost everyone knew that Polynesians have the natural built for rugby as well as their skills that comes with it.
Cost = Parents hard work, work the night shifts so they have food on the table i.e. more taro than potatoes because they believe that will make them strong…I knew this for a fact because I have lots of PI friends I played rugby with back in the days.
dropping them to and from rugby training and games, give them advice in life in general.
NZRU only interesting when a player makes the age group teams, etc.
I’m quite sick of this argument that NZRU invest in PI players…that is a load of Sh*Ts.
END OF THE DAY MATE, PI PLAYERS ARE JUST NATURAL IN CONTACT TEAM SPORTS and none of them are good at football for eg apart from T Carhill
Re the game on Saturday, I think the ABs and everyone should give credits where credits due and that is RDs and his Wallabies
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:04am
Colin said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Well said.
October 24th 2012 @ 12:48am
Ra said | October 24th 2012 @ 12:48am | Report comment
Everyone has to get over the “natural”talent buzz. Mark Ella in his family bio doco scoffed at all the media comments about the Ella brothers “natural talents”. He said if only the people knew just how much they practiced to get their moves right. Yes the PI grow and mature physically a lot earlier than most other races, but to be elite sportsmen and women, they still have to train as hard as theirs counterparts to be competitive
October 24th 2012 @ 4:33am
Jerry said | October 24th 2012 @ 4:33am | Report comment
You do get some players that rely too much on natural talent and not enough on application and practice. A good example is Ma’a Nonu for the first half of his career.
He’s a beast of a physical specimen and was able to bulldoze his way to the tryline, but – presumably as this had been enough for him in age group rugby and even in the first few years of his pro career – was severely lacking in the fundamentals. This is why he was in and out of the AB’s, never quite nailing down a regular spot and why he missed out on the 2007 RWC squad.
To his credit, he’s obviously worked very hard and is now a good passer of the ball and is a much more complete player and from 2008 onwards has been a very different proposition.
October 24th 2012 @ 1:26am
Ra said | October 24th 2012 @ 1:26am | Report comment
That’s a bit rich. I’ve watched Harris a little bit since he came across the ditch. I don’t see a tall poppy. I see a humble young fella, who is quietly and clinically going about his business as we expect from our professional sports people these days. Yes he came through our kiwi coaching machine and to make the U20′s team is a pretty good effort. Nothing wrong with his play at all. He’s actually a great exempla of the type of player the NZRU elite player development produces. Nothing to be scotched at
October 23rd 2012 @ 6:51am
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 6:51am | Report comment
Hansen wasn’t referring to Harris being selected for the Wallabies, he was referring to Aus Super Rugby sides recruiting NZ players – Ged Robinson, Willie Ripia, Scott Fuglistaller, Jason Woodward, Alby Mathewson etc.
And, given the ARU has a policy of allowing franchises to actively recruit foreign players with the view to qualifying for the Wallabies, he does kind of have a point.
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:09am
Jutsie said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
His answer was in response to a question about harris.
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:48am
Funk said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:48am | Report comment
“Hansen made the criticism when asked if New Zealand-raised Wallabies fullback Mike Harris’s role in Australia’s 18-18 draw with the All Blacks at the weekend indicated a problem with New Zealand’s talent identification system.
”I am pleased [Harris] has achieved his dream … what I find frustrating is that Australia is trying to build their game and put more franchises in place but all they are doing is putting franchises in place and stealing our players,” he said.”
SMH
Try again Jerry!
Whilst I’m at it, do any of the nz super fanchises have any forgein born players? would they make the AIGs if they were good enough…i’d think in a heart beat.
October 23rd 2012 @ 12:05pm
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
‘Try again Jerry!”
Reading comprehension not your strong suit, then? Cause that quote you posted supports what I wrote.
October 23rd 2012 @ 12:23pm
Funk said | October 23rd 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
he responded to the question about Harris, in so doing he quoted both Australia and Super franchises, he wasn’t talking soley about super rugby, so maybe you need a few comrehension lessons yourself?
There was also no mention of these players you quoted…make that up all by yourself?
October 23rd 2012 @ 12:36pm
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
He’s clearly talking about Super Rugby, funk.
October 23rd 2012 @ 1:09pm
Funk said | October 23rd 2012 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
Why did he mention Australia then? The majority of super franchises use forgein players to bolster their ranks.
October 23rd 2012 @ 1:15pm
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Because he was talking about the Australian franchises?
NZ and SA franchises don’t recruit foreigners on anything close to the same scale as the Australian franchises – the Rebels have a specific exemption about it, for instance. And of course the ARU policy about “Development Players” and “Marquee Players”.
What Hansen has said is true – the ARU established more franchises to grow the game in Australia but is unable to fill these sides with local players. NZ isn’t the only source of players, but it’s the biggest one.
October 23rd 2012 @ 1:44pm
Funk said | October 23rd 2012 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
So the newest franchise is the one point you can make is it?
nzru don’t have the marquee or development player policies because they have their own policy allowing 2 forgien players per franchise, yet (here’s the kicker) nzru don’t classify the PIs as forgien players!! So they can have as many as they want from the PIs. And you can’t tell me these players would not be identified as potential abs if their skills were up to it and they could find a way to make them eligable.
October 23rd 2012 @ 1:56pm
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Again – “NZ and SA franchises don’t recruit foreigners on anything close to the same scale”
The Rebels pretty much fit exactly what Hansen was talking about (“putting franchises in place and stealing our players”) so yeah – they’re the most relevant franchise to the discussion.
October 23rd 2012 @ 2:02pm
golden bull said | October 23rd 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
Funk is 100% spot on, Hanson has made comments not based on super rugby franchises taking Kiwi born players yet made comments on Harris playing for the wallabies due to the fact he kicked 15 points and was a big reason we drew with the All Blacks. If Harris had of missed 5/5 kicks you would not have heard a thing from Hanson. Considering the game was an internation and keeping this in context, you would think Jerry could join the dots if he doesnt have the ability to comprehend what is quite simple.
October 23rd 2012 @ 2:07pm
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
“Hanson has made comments not based on super rugby franchises taking Kiwi born players”
Then why did he say “all they are doing is putting franchises in place and stealing our players”?
October 23rd 2012 @ 2:28pm
Funk said | October 23rd 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
“NZ and SA franchises don’t recruit foreigners on anything close to the same scale as the Australian franchises”
So to what scale is that?
The reds- Harris
Warrathas – hart (and maybe timani bros…dubious)
Brumbies – Oostheisen, speight (murphy is australian)
then there are the new franchises
Force – Ebershon, Mathewson
rebels yeah there is a few.
When did nz get a new franchise to dilute the player talent???
go through the nz teams and I think you find at least a couple of imports in almost every one.
October 23rd 2012 @ 1:57pm
golden bull said | October 23rd 2012 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
Jerry, you are as bitter as Hanson is, not a good look mate
October 23rd 2012 @ 2:03pm
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Is Hanson bitter? Well, they’ve not had much success since “MMM Bop” but I dunno why they’d be bitter.
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:10am
golden bull said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
haha Jerry your every where…. one a 1 man crusade to justify all the crap that kiwis say. He doesnt have a point, and Harris is eligable through an Australian grandparent. End of.
He wasnt happy cause he kicked us to a draw, yet you and Hanson should realize that Kaino isnt a Kiwi and theres plenty more!
That draw must have realy hurt?
October 23rd 2012 @ 2:45pm
Jerry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
“He doesnt have a point, and Harris is eligable through an Australian grandparent.”
Oh, the ironing.
October 23rd 2012 @ 3:12pm
Red Kev said | October 23rd 2012 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Jerry, between that and your “Hanson” crack you’ve had me laughing out loud this afternoon, keep up the good work.
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:25pm
RebelRanger said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:25pm | Report comment
Kaino who was born in America Samoa in 1983 and moved to NZ in 1987?
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:14am
mace 22 said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
Sorry but harris just doesn’t make the grade, he is just not good enough to be recruited by a nz franchise. He is a one trick pony can just kick. His only chance of advancement was overseas. So he moved to australia made the wallabies so good on him. If the australian franchises see potential in nz players and can persuade them to move over the ditch good on them as well.
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:14am
Hurl said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
I think Hanson is on the money. He’s not talking about the Quade Cooper’s of this world who went to Oz as teenagers and came up through the Australian system. Its the poaching from our wider Super 15 training groups that shows that Australia can’t sustain 5 super 15 teams.
Poaching NZ players is clearly a failure of the Australian system
October 23rd 2012 @ 8:35am
jameswm said | October 23rd 2012 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Option 1 – spend the time, effort and money developing a promising young player, who may or may not make it.
Option 2 – recruit a seasoned pro who has shown they have it at Super level, but can’t get a gig in their own country.
Sure, one is the softer option, but it’s easy to see why a few Option 2s end up in Aussie franchises, esp the franchises with less junior development (Rebels and Force).
October 23rd 2012 @ 10:11am
jeremy said | October 23rd 2012 @ 10:11am | Report comment
…in the commercial world, this happens all the time. Both NZ and Australia are net exporters of talent, Australia less so as there’s more critical mass in Sydney / Melbourne, so really it’s not a big deal.
Storm in a teacup and Hansen shooting off at his mouth.
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:03pm
zhenry said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:03pm | Report comment
Spot on and well informed Steve Hanson, Australia are wanting more franchises (O’Neill’s wallpaper TV plan) and they are using mostly NZ players to fill the yawning gaps. Hansen used Harris as a stepping stone to the real issue (as reported by Jim Morton) and of course it’s O’Neill who is insulting. What else from this PR grabber and TV wallpaperer. Did you get your monies worth AU rugby?
And its O’Neill who is ill-informed, the Pacific Islands have been a special case for years; extremely small population with a lot of good players that still populates many Australian and UK-Euro teams.
Its appalling misinformation on O’Neill’s part. O’Neill? Interested in facts, he uses the media for what it is; a propaganda juggernought. See Will Lawton above for more on that subject.
Most Australians are without conscience re NZ so of course Damien Hill is unapologetic (so was Rod McQueen) and McKenzie is giggling. The Rebels will be allowed up to 10 foreign players and so on:
All this is about NZ mismanagement. Tew is responsible for this diabolical situation and he is still in charge of the NZRU? He allowed O’Neill to sneak in other national players (including NZ) when the issue of allowing only Argentinean players arose, as well as allowing O’Neill to expand the AU franchises. Tew has much to answer for.
Previous to that the NZ govt allowed its own private media to be sold off to mostly AU interests. That same AU media have cheaply presented this issue with no relevant background material. That’s the media the All Blacks and the NZRU read
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:32am
nickoldschool said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
i have no problem with players ‘jumping ship’ and accepting jobs in another country if they are 3-4th pick in their own club or country. Sure harris would have preferred to stay with the Blues and one day wear the AB jersey, but it wasnt meant to happen for a simple reason: he was just not good enough. A cpuntry like Australia offered him a job and a career, he would have been a fool not to accept, so well done Mike.
we would all have done the same even if it meant wearing the American/Japanese or whatever jersey. No dilemma: either you stay in your country to play club footy as a semi pro, or play the sport you love, get well paid for it and may even play the rwc for your adoptive country. where do i sign? Bit cynical for anyone (Hansen and others) to judge him. But agree with him when he says Oz should unearth their own talent. Sad to see that the n2 nation in world rugby picked a 3-4th club rugby kiwi….there is a void between the 2 countries and thats scary (just look at the itm cup then shute shield)
The Rathbone story is a different one as the guy had a career awaiting him in his country of origin, but its not today’s debate.
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:40am
Tui said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
Everyone is well aware of the fact the Wallabies are not developing their own any more. Their team is now full of Kiwis and a Kiwi coach.
October 23rd 2012 @ 11:55am
Funk said | October 23rd 2012 @ 11:55am | Report comment
“Their team is now full of Kiwis”
ok the game on saturday….name all those kiwi bown players from the Wallaby team.
October 23rd 2012 @ 3:46pm
Team Taniwha said | October 23rd 2012 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Well Timani, Kepu and Harris are three for a start, players who were not just born in NZ but spent the majority of their formative years there.
October 23rd 2012 @ 4:23pm
Funk said | October 23rd 2012 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Timani was born in Tonga, Kepu was born in Sydney, Harris yes.
October 23rd 2012 @ 7:48pm
Team Taniwha said | October 23rd 2012 @ 7:48pm | Report comment
Oh so, where it was where some is born, even if they spent their majority of lives some where else. Oh well, there goes, Pocock, Genia, Cooper, O’Connor…