The public shaming of Steve Hansen
By Eljay, 26 Oct 2012 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- new zealand all blacks, rugby, Rugby Union, Steve Hansen, wallabies
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New All Blacks coach Steve Hansen. AAP Images
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If ever you wanted an example of Kiwi tunnel vision in matters rugby there is no need to look further than Steve ‘One Eyes’ (yes, he has double one-eyedness) Hansen and his comments that Australia should ‘stop stealing’ Kiwi rugby players.
He seems to have been referring to Mike Harris, the man who could not even get a game at Super 15 in NZ; the same player who so effectively and wonderfully snotted Hansen’s All Blacks in Brisbane last weekend denying them a chance of taking the most-wins-on the trot record from Lithuania.
Hansen’s comments were sour grapes at best, poor sportsmanship at least. They also reveal an honours degree in arrant stupidity. Analyse his comments, drill right down on them, and they actually mean: “We did not want Harris, but you were not allowed to have him.”
Quintessential selfishness. In any sense, utterly perverse. Appallingly little.
In the face of that edict what could poor Mike Harris do? In the national rugby interest, obediently hang up his boots and retire to share milking on a God- forsaken, windswept dairy farm in the middle of nowhere and, over time, feel his lips become thin from bitterness – an angry man widely known in the district as The Dog Kicker.
In this, I applaud noble Lithuania for maintaining its rugby winning record; a record not even the mighty All Blacks – The Darkness – could break.
The what? Yes, The Darkness. It’s a recently coined Kiwi sobriquet. All Blacks equals The Darkness. Get it?
Even a fool like me ‘gets it’ of course but frankly it’s a disturbing turn of events perhaps indicating the possibility that New Zealand rugby fanatics have become even more delusional than ever; they have too much time on their hands.
I knew no good would come of them (just) winning RWC11.
The Darkness: a menacing force in the Devil’s keep, led by Darth Vader, musical score courtesy their Satanic Majesties. To be feared everywhere and every time; evil and invincible. Supernatural.
You can hear it now, All Blacks fans talking in pubs:
“May The Darkness be with you.”
I note with sadness that Sir Wilson Whineray, arguably one of the finest sportsmen to wear the silver fern and likely the greatest All Black captain, died earlier this week. No doubt he would have been appalled – ashamed – at the nonsense spouted at the weekend by Steve Hansen.
As a proud fellow New Zealander, I too am ashamed of Hansen’s miserable utterances. We are a far better race of sportspeople than that.
Finally, Scott Higginbotham. In any sense I do not condone dirty play. I have been on the receiving end of it and was always incensed by the unnecessariness and injustice of it. Higginbotham was stupid and has made his team pay the price for it.
Conversely, perhaps it also demonstrated – in an over-the-top way – how the current Wallaby forwards were finally able to mad dog up to and, at times, dominate the All Blacks.
Wow, how refreshing was that, maybe an omen, or portent for a golden future again?
Now there’s a though for a new sobriquet for the Wallabies: The Shining!
How does that sound?
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October 26th 2012 @ 1:59am
biltongbek said | October 26th 2012 @ 1:59am | Report comment
I guess that pretty much sums up your feelings regarding Hansen and his team, huh?
October 26th 2012 @ 3:11pm
Jokerman said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
An article from the pure ego. One of the worst articles I have read on the roar. You see Eljay (And I get the feeling, you have used a different name to hide behind) by putting The All Blacks down, the coach, their Rugby world cup achievement, for that moment, in your head, it makes you right and the mighty All Blacks wrong. (Only in your little world, your head.)
They train, they perform, they advance and become world known, and in your silly little moment, you put them all down and your ego goes “yes!”…..but hey, anyone can do that…but lift the RWC with humility and passion and pride. Can you do that? No you can’t
That is why I love the All Blacks, for a sports team that shows greatness they are pretty humble and stay strong to their values.
October 26th 2012 @ 4:01pm
Jokerman said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Eljay,
I saw your brief response a few comments down. Did I miss something? Clearly I didn’t get it. If it was originated from the stance of humor or being like a character, like Bruno off the film “Bruno” Then so be it.
I only took offense as I perceived it as someone saying their perceived truth. Your delivery could be better, I ll be more alert next time.
If you shift genres though, rugby to humor, or to character driven, you need the readers to be aware of this, otherwise it can be seen as someone’s simple truth, and if it has vitriolic, or racists tones, you get negative feedback.
October 26th 2012 @ 4:50pm
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
“and if it has vitriolic, or racists tones”
I must have reall missed something here, where did this racism talk come from???????
Is it because Darth Vader is black?
November 1st 2012 @ 9:23am
richard said | November 1st 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Don’t knock Darth Vader, as villains go, he was one of the best, he had style.
Read somewhere that one Gareth Edwards described the ab’s as the “DV’s of world rugby” – best compliment I have ever heard.
October 26th 2012 @ 5:24pm
soapit said | October 26th 2012 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
is jokerman your first or second name?
October 28th 2012 @ 12:47pm
Bazza said | October 28th 2012 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Oh how the truth can dig in and HURT
October 26th 2012 @ 2:36am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:36am | Report comment
Seems to me Mr Hansen was actually referring to the presence in NZ of more AU scouts than Kiwi, at certain times of the year, plus the inability of Kirwan to not name a prop as 28/30th player for the Blues without getting snapped up by Australian super rugby.
What sort of NZ draft is it if AU get first rights????
Did you actually read the journalists loaded question and the following transcript-ed reply???
Next year NZ squads will have to protect 32+ players thanks to AU at a cost of another $200k per Super team. ($1m)
One day (in a far far away galaxy) AU will be developing all the players and then NZ will get a free ride in development even though we do realize that once they sing an anthem (typically at 4-6 years of age) they mostly have no passion for any other especially when it is just another job.
October 26th 2012 @ 12:02pm
John Philipson said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Perhaps New Zealand cricket will be in the same far far away galaxy (Lou Vincent, Matt Sinclair, Grant Elliot, Wagner, Ronchi to name but a few). POT KETTLE ALL BLACK
November 1st 2012 @ 10:18am
richard said | November 1st 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
To equate nz cricket with aus rugby is a red herring. Aus rugby, under O’Neill has aggressively pursued a blatant policy of poaching nz talent. The difference, which you conveniently overlook, is nz doesn’t go to sa looking for talent.
btw, Australia is hardly lily white in cricket – players like Ashley Grommett, Kepler Wessels and recently Khawaja? come to mind. Add to that your olympic teams, football and ru sides (to name a few) and you will see that you are in no position to lecture us.
October 26th 2012 @ 2:43am
Lazza said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:43am | Report comment
What’s an Australian doing talking about sportsmanship! One eyed Hansen? I reason you Aussies can have our cast offs and stick them in your tunnels…
October 26th 2012 @ 4:14am
Eljay said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:14am | Report comment
Lazza – read the column properly please. I am a proud New Zealander.
October 26th 2012 @ 2:09pm
rae1 said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
By the tone I think it best to describe you as just a NZer. Leave out the proud part.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:46pm
Eljay said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Rae, there is no such thing a ‘just’ a New Zealander. That’s like a woman describing (demeaning) herself a ‘just’ a housewife of a renter saying they are ‘just’ renters. No, I am a PROUD, PROUD New Zealander whether you like it e or not. We are a special race. Nothing ‘just’ about us, any of us. Moreover, I have two eyes, maybe three. Now ‘just’ relax, Rae. Okay?
October 26th 2012 @ 4:00pm
Eljay said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Rae, let me re-paste this without typos.
There is no such thing as ‘just’ a New Zealander. That’s like a woman describing (demeaning) herself as ‘just’ a housewife of a renter saying they are ‘just’ renters. No, I am a PROUD, PROUD New Zealander whether you like it or not. We are a special race. Nothing ‘just’ about us, any of us. Moreover, I have two eyes, maybe three. Now ‘just’ relax, Rae. Okay?
October 26th 2012 @ 4:51pm
El Gamba said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
How long has “New Zealander” been a race? I think you’ll find it is a nationality..
October 26th 2012 @ 4:54pm
biltongbek said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
Eljay, sorry mate, but if this was to be satire, the message didn’t come across.
October 26th 2012 @ 7:14am
Justin2 said | October 26th 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
Classic!
October 26th 2012 @ 10:46am
rl said | October 26th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
well I’ll be. I didn’t know kiwis ate their own…
October 26th 2012 @ 10:56am
Eljay said | October 26th 2012 @ 10:56am | Report comment
It (cannibalism) was common in NZ before the white man got there.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:03pm
jeznez said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
ha ha ha, LJ, nice article mate – I love “Apallingly little”
October 26th 2012 @ 3:26pm
Eljay said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
Jeznez – thanks. At least someone gets it! Tell Jokerman I forgive him/her/it. Thanks.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:36pm
jeznez said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
number one cause of cannabilism?
tasty pakehas
October 26th 2012 @ 6:50pm
Ra said | October 26th 2012 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
Yes but hanging, drawing, quartering and sending body parts to four different corners of Europe was a disgusting culture brought to the lands down under by the white fulla. A total waste of good tucker really – good white meat like that shoulda been eatin fresh on the spot, nuthin like a good leg a pom with ya Waikato brew 22 (do thet still brew it?)
October 26th 2012 @ 3:06am
ANON69 said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:06am | Report comment
Hansen is a Pussy
October 26th 2012 @ 3:12am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:12am | Report comment
And you are the “Pussy” because you would die of shock before saying it to his face……
October 26th 2012 @ 9:21am
soapit said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:21am | Report comment
omg totally
October 26th 2012 @ 9:22am
Not Inerterested said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Says the person hiding behind a tag.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:17am
Bono said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:17am | Report comment
Mate, why are you misrepresenting what Hansen said by not reporting the question that was raised by the journalist?
The gloating Aussie journo was clearly having a crack at the NZ system by stating that Harris’ selection has clearly embarrassed the nz talent identification system (Hansen states this in the interview he did on Monday on radio live sport, and which is available on their website), and Hansen put him in his place by defending the nz system and exposing the weaknesses in the Aussie one. The Aussie journo should be the one that we should be targeting for irresponsible journalism.
As for whether the comments made were sour grapes after a draw, I don’t think so. I believe he would have said that a month ago if the question was raised then.
His comments may not have been tactful in your opinion, but it was based on facts. 15 NZ developed players (came through the NZ system) are playing in the Aussie s15 teams- way too many and most of them were enticed to Australia by these clubs. Notice that he wasn’t targeting guys like Quade who moved there as teenagers.
The biggest clowns are Jon and Marto for once again displaying their sheer ignorance on NZ’s demographics in their uneducated rants about PI players being poached by NZ. Hansen can at least back up his statement with clear statistics, whereas Jon and that Greg Martin obviously cannot.
October 26th 2012 @ 5:37am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 5:37am | Report comment
Thing is that 20% of (KIWI) AU super players would be acceptable, if the majority had moved at a young age, but even then they almost all have already sung “God Defend”
Why are they not being made to get an Aussie Passport????
Because they do not want to……
October 26th 2012 @ 5:56am
Akann said | October 26th 2012 @ 5:56am | Report comment
Exactly, and that’s the point that Hansen is trying to make. I really can’t believe how defensive the Aussies are getting about this when it’s so obviously true.
October 26th 2012 @ 6:01am
richard said | October 26th 2012 @ 6:01am | Report comment
Bono, you are onto it, but you are trying to push the proverbial uphill getting that message through to oz supporters. They are either being wilfully ignorant on the subject, or are seriously deluded on this issue. Either way, this policy isn’t going to change anytime soon,without which oz wouldn’t have a hope in hell of beating us, let alone be competitive.
As for o’neill, and his pi stats, you will find this interesting;
1100 All Blacks
78 were born overseas
13 from Western Samoa
8 from Fiji
7 from Tonga
This is over a century of nz rugby. And you can be sure, virtually all of those players came through the nz system.
Game, set and match, nz!
October 26th 2012 @ 8:57am
Markus said | October 26th 2012 @ 8:57am | Report comment
It’s not us supporters so much, just Oz journos. It would be pretty tough to deny that every Aus Super Rugby team is at the very least scouting the ITM Cup to shore up their squads.
Oz media love Hansen. After 8 years of Henry giving them absolutely nothing to work with, they are pouncing on every single thing Hansen says, regardless of the fact that none of it has been wrong thus far.
October 26th 2012 @ 8:59am
Uncle Argyle said | October 26th 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Hi Richard,
For the record I think the whole thing is a storm in tea-cup. I think Hansen is a very good coach and is above such comments useually. I will give him some lattitude given the recent few years personally of earthquake and death of father. Tough load for anyone to carry and also being part of the All Blacks set up. Not an easy load to carry and I think on the whole he has done it well. I wish he would do up his tie though.
Secondly I agree most All Blacks have come up through the NZ system but there a few who may have come up elsewhere; John Gallagher, Des Conner, Steve Devine, Jamie Salmon come to mind. Wasn’t Jack Lam of Wellington an Aussie Schoolboy?
We too have had the Greg Davis’, the Willie Offahengaue’s etc come to our shore as well. It is just a facet of internation rugby. South African’s playing for England, Australia, Scotland, Wales and now Ireland even France & Italy.
October 26th 2012 @ 9:49am
richard said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Yeah, my beef isn’t with aussies like you and Frank O’Keefe, you’re the kind of oz bloggers I respect, just the one’s who don’t get their facts straight.
As an aside, I believe Des Conner only played a handful of tests for the ab’s – based on what I’ve read of him, I am surprised he didn’t play a lot more.
October 26th 2012 @ 11:03am
Uncle Argyle said | October 26th 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
Mate I think he must have some ability to play for both Australia and New Zealand. 1 test is enough. I know a couple of guys who played around that era and have asked the Australian guys how they felt about Des going to New Zealand. I think he took a teaching job at Auckland Grammar for memory and it went from there.
The guys generally state that Ken Catchpole would have surpassed Des for the Wallaby jumper. There is no shame in that. For me Eales, Ella and Catchpole should all be held in roughly in the same esteem as players in my opinion. However they were still gutted he left. He still could have contributed to the Wallaby cause.
However did give opportunity to blokes like the late Ken McMullen, whose son Craig was a very good Super Rugby player in his day and also swimming coach Lawrie Lawrence is also an uncapped Wallaby. Catchy pretty much made the jumper his own until a bloke called John Hipwell came along. Another Wallaby great.
Des Conner is a bit of an enigma really, but in my opinion is not the greatest Wallaby or All Black half back but rates a special mention becuase of his dual status. As for Steve Devine….how did we let that one get away?
October 26th 2012 @ 9:30am
RLDO said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Not that many in the scheme of things richard. The way the rest of the world goes on about islanders playing for the blacks, you’d think of the 1100 or so allblacks 1000 of them have been islanders. But I’m sorry to say this will come up year after year after year, expect the northern countries to bring it up as well this year.
October 26th 2012 @ 11:17am
richard said | October 26th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Hi, RLDO, not so sure they will this time, there is supposedly a story doing the rounds in the UK that that the upcoming AB v England game has been written up as nz “a” v nz ‘b”. If that is the case, maybe even the poms are realising they can’t milk this cow anymore.
One way or another, we’ll find out soon enough.
October 26th 2012 @ 11:16am
Spiro Zavos said | October 26th 2012 @ 11:16am | Report comment
When Stephen Jones used to make the argument that New Zealand ‘stole’ players from the Pacific Islands, he never mentioned the fact that more England players had been born in India (sons of military men) than All Blacks born in Samoa.
It is a fact that NZ provides a number of countries with players. More than any other country, I would think. But, as the case of Mike Harris and soon Sean Maitland (who will represent for Scotland soon despite the fact he’s just arrived there), these players are entitled to play for their new countries under the judicious IRB rules, just like the players born in Samoa, Fiji and Tonga are/were entitled to play for the All Blacks.
October 26th 2012 @ 12:05pm
John Philipson said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Actually Richard is not – if you go on to the NZ History Rugby Museum, where these statistics were taken from (I am assuming you ripped them from the NZHERALD article by McKendy) you will see that by far the lionshare of PI born ABs have occurred in the modern era of the game, clearly the era referred to by O’Neill, unless he was wishing to discuss the invincible era period.
So once you contextualise those statistics they tell a different story.
October 26th 2012 @ 12:14pm
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
Even then, other than Joeli Vidiri and Saimone Taumopeau, none of the PI born All Blacks came to NZ as adults.
October 26th 2012 @ 12:28pm
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
All depends on what you call an adult, if your 16, you need to buy an adult ticketto ride the bus!
Sivivatu went to nz at 17 his cuz at 15, pretty sure they learn’t a fair bit of rugby in Fiji. Fair enough Joe could have asked for a consession ticket but not really little kids?
October 26th 2012 @ 12:31pm
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
His cousin? If you mean Rokocoko, he was 6 – you’d have to be a very nasty bus driver to insist on full fare.
October 26th 2012 @ 12:52pm
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
My mistake I’m sure I read somewhere it was when he was 15 but one of his websites says 5.
Just because your driver smiles and says good morning don’t be fooled, they’re a nasty bunch! (sorry in advance to any bus drivers out there…it’s actully taxi driver i really don’t like:)
October 26th 2012 @ 2:37pm
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
Without wanting to over-simplify things, you can tell by the accents.
Sivi sounds obviously Fijian, Joe sounds like he grew up in NZ.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:03pm
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
Oh I just saw what I wrote, I actually loved Taxi Driver, I’m just not the biggest fan of taxi drivers.
“You lookin’ at me?”
October 27th 2012 @ 4:51pm
Terry Tavita said | October 27th 2012 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
david smith. sosene anesi and casey laulala went to nz in their teens..both anesi and smith played sevens and age-group rugby for samoa..sosene still holds the samoa’s 100m record..10.6 sec..
October 27th 2012 @ 7:05pm
Jerry said | October 27th 2012 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
Teens isn’t adult, though Terry. Quade Cooper was a teenager when he went to Australia, but I don’t think he’s a poach.
Also, David Smith was never an All Black.
October 26th 2012 @ 2:31pm
richard said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
You are quite right in where I got those stats, but I don’t see any reason to dispute them. It stands to reason that most of the pi born ab’s will have come in the modern era, as it is only in the last 30 years that the growing influence of this talent has become pronuonced.By all accounts, you are seeing this same trend taking place in both oz union and league.
The point you, and O’Neill are missing is that, these players are still nzer’s, albeit of pi descent, and with few exceptions, have come through our devlopment systems. This is only going to increase in the forseeable future, as young pi talent is going to look at this as their pathway to financial security (in much the same way, as african americans do).
To me, your arguement is moot, but O’Neill’s motives, on the other hand are more sinister and merely a smokescreen.I respect your opinion, but thats just how I see it!
October 26th 2012 @ 6:37pm
Maxt said | October 26th 2012 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
Same stats showing just last 20yrs please
October 27th 2012 @ 6:01am
richard said | October 27th 2012 @ 6:01am | Report comment
Why 20, why not 10, your arguement doesn’t stack up.
It stands to reason that pi participation has greatly increased in the last 3 decades, with the dominance of pi and maori players in club abd provincial rugby ( particularly in Auck. and Wellington). You will see this if you watch the ITM Cup final today.
The bottom line is you’re trying to defend the nonsensical arguement that O’Neill has bought up – about nz supposedly pillaging pi rugby – and that has been proven to be a myth.
October 26th 2012 @ 8:20am
Riccardo said | October 26th 2012 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Good post Bono.
This is my interpretation of it as well.
Reported out of context to capitalise on the timing.
Nevertheless, I would point out Hansen could have handled it better; he seems to take particular pleasure in baiting the Australians (especially Deans) and needs to reign it in.
October 26th 2012 @ 9:24am
soapit said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
correct. its naive to think these guys will never be asked tricky questions. not the first and wont be the last, its just most other pro’s choose/are able to avoid saying something that will come across as sour grapes.
he should have enough skill to be able to handle it diplomatically. the fact he didnt was his own decision/fault and cant be blamed on the journalist.
October 26th 2012 @ 9:47am
WQ said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
I agree Riccardo, Hansen needs to learn to shut up!
October 26th 2012 @ 2:45pm
RebelRanger said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
And then we’re left to talk about nothing. I love Hansen. The Bledisloe matches are in most part like SOO in their dominance and we need more angles in which to view the games with excitement.
October 26th 2012 @ 9:42am
WQ said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Excellent response Bono.
You are forgetting though that this story has been generated to fuel Wallaby fans and their need to trash anything to do with the All Blacks.
The truth is irrelevant to them in their quest to gain some sort of recompense as a result of the Wallabies failure to be competitive against the All Blacks for some time. Hopefully they will beat the All Blacks again soon and this will start to calm things down.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:43pm
jeznez said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Oy! We drew! I’d call that competitive
I wish we’d had a droppy attempt but baby steps..
October 26th 2012 @ 4:24pm
RebelRanger said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
In the third game after losing the first 2?
October 26th 2012 @ 5:02pm
jeznez said | October 26th 2012 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
don’t bring me down, my glass is half full today
October 26th 2012 @ 8:06pm
RebelRanger said | October 26th 2012 @ 8:06pm | Report comment
My sincerest apologies. Do carry on..
October 26th 2012 @ 6:05pm
WQ said | October 26th 2012 @ 6:05pm | Report comment
More than competitive, damn near won it, if McCaw had captained the Wallabies they would have jeznez!
I actually don’t buy into all the negative talk about the Wallabies not being competitive with the All Blacks, I always sweat when the All Blacks play the Wallabies, more than any other nation.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:26am
Bee Bee said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:26am | Report comment
Isn’t the Shining a Jack Nicholson movie about a man going insane and trying to kill his own family.
If Australia is the Shining, then who is Jack Nicholson? Robbie Deans perhaps. That would make sense. Driven insane by his divided loyalties he massacres the Wallabies with a mixture of brutally mundane tactics and intense hatred of ball playing backs.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:51am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:51am | Report comment
More like 1/3+ of his players imploded because they respect their original anthem of birth over their current employer.
October 26th 2012 @ 8:12am
Riccardo said | October 26th 2012 @ 8:12am | Report comment
Classic BB!
Dingo at the dressing room door, mad-eyed and drooling “Here’s Johnny!”
October 26th 2012 @ 3:49am
Johnno said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:49am | Report comment
SO funny about Steve Hansen . What a hypocrite. Another example of kiwis inconveniently hiding the truth and double standards and hypocrisy. Just like Ted complaining about the refs in 2007 , when many contriries were unhappy ith Bryce Lawrance and referees boss Paddy O’brien in the 2011 world cup.
Funny how Hansen rambles on about foreigners and poaching or steeling other countries players call it what you want.
Well Steve Hansen you obviously are suffering from selective memory or should I say , a bad does of being a hypocrite or hypocrisy.
When you Mr steve Hansen were head coach of Wales you had 6 foreign born players in his Wales team.
http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/rugby-union/union-news/hansens-handpicked-foreigners-20121023-281zk.html
Love it example especially the Brett Cobain 1. Brother of ex wallaby Matt Cobain. When he joined wales after being recruit by wales, he admitted he had a lot to learn about Wales including the national anthem as one of many things lol. Says it all really.
Hansen you hypocrite.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:52am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:52am | Report comment
Johnno you have really lost it mate.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:59am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:59am | Report comment
Coaching Wales and the All Blacks, 8+ years apart as a comparison, unless you are singing the virtue of the lack of foreign born All Blacks is just plain stupid!!!
Let alone the current foreign representation of the Wallabies???
Put your spray can away!
October 26th 2012 @ 8:26am
Sandy said | October 26th 2012 @ 8:26am | Report comment
HD, what is the current foreign representation of the Wallabies? And PLEASE don’t mention Ione, Pocock or Genia.
October 26th 2012 @ 8:42am
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Kepu and Harris, I suppose.
October 26th 2012 @ 8:42am
Team Taniwha said | October 26th 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Plus Timani, Cooper-Vuna
October 26th 2012 @ 9:52am
Justin2 said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Kepu was born in Sydney at least.
October 26th 2012 @ 9:52am
Justin2 said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
TT – dont mention Vuna, its embarrassing he got a jersey!
October 26th 2012 @ 10:06am
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Born in Sydney, but raised and learned his rugby in NZ.
October 26th 2012 @ 10:21am
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
How good was that rugby he learned Jerry if he couldn’t crack a super team, comes to aus refines his skills adds more to his rugby knowledge and makes it to international level…..maybe it was the rugby he learned here that made him the player he is?
Same for Harris?
October 26th 2012 @ 10:36am
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Kepu would have played about 10 matches for NSW before his Wallaby selection – I don’t think the Tahs setup is so incredible that it’s gonna make that big a difference in that short time frame.
And, if the Australian set up is so good, why can’t it produce its own players?
October 26th 2012 @ 11:02am
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
“Kepu would have played about 10 matches for NSW” …..So you only learn your rugby when you’re on the field? Why did I spend all that time at training? Bloody coach made me do all those drills for nothing!!
“if the Australian set up is so good, why can’t it produce its own players” so there are no australians in the wallabies? Must have missed that, I was positive there were a few. There have actually been some quite good players that came through the Aus system and there are still more coming through every day, probably not quite enough to sustain 5 super teams at the moment. Never said it was “so good” definately has some problems.
If the nz system is “so good” why are your players leaving?
October 26th 2012 @ 11:11am
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
No, of course players learn a fair bit in training. However, it’s far more likely that the 14 odd years of rugby that Kepu played in NZ, including 3 seasons of professional rugby and representing NZ at age group level (including being converted to prop by scrum guru Mike Cron) had more of an effect than a season with the Tahs.
As for your last statement, it makes no sense. The players are leaving cause we’ve only got 5 teams to put them in and there is a surplus of talent.
October 26th 2012 @ 11:55am
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Is your opinion Jerry, have you asked Kepu? I’m just a little over the whole we trainded them, we own them BS, it’s the players own talent and drive that get’s them the farthest, all the rest refines and polishes! It’s like the guy who cuts the diamond telling the miner that it the he owns the dimond because he made it look pretty!
As for the 2nd point, Isn’t that the crux of the whole thing, not enough places for the players there…therefore some players leave!
October 26th 2012 @ 1:16pm
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Obviously the NZRU doesn’t ‘own’ the players, Funk. However, it has put substantial resources into their development and it doesn’t sit well for the ARU to swoop in at the 11th hour and reap the benefit of that development.
I don’t blame the players, but I do think the ARU’s ‘Development Player’ exemption and the Australian franchises exploiting the ‘grandfather clause’ aren’t exactly what representative sport is meant to be about.
I guess that’s the crux of the issue – representative sport vs professional sport. The former would be sports people from a certain district/city/country representing the sporting talent and knowledge of that area, the latter is more of a profit based enterprise. At present Super Rugby and, to much lesser extent, Test Rugby are somewhere in the middle.
We’d all like for sport to remain as ‘pure’ as possible but the reality is that professionalism erodes that. And unfortunately, Australian franchises recruitment policies are just another example of that. It’s not the first example, nor is it the worst example, but that doesn’t mean it should pass without comment.
October 26th 2012 @ 1:53pm
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Yes but at the end of the day, it is the player who actually invests the most into their career, not the governing body, not the club, not the coach. I learned my profession at a certain university but does that mean that I should only work where they want me to work, but then gathered extensive knowledge and training whilst employed at previous employers, so do they decide where I can work because they invested substantial resources into my development?
Each got a return for their investments, as NZRU did in each of the players you mentioned, Kepu-nz junior teams, ITM cup. Harris- nzu21s, ITM cup and all have paid their dues and have the right do play where they want.
This is the professional era we now live in.
I just read that Adam Thompson has not yet resigned with nzru and maybe looking to move to Japan due to a Messam being given favor? Would be sad to see him go (apart from when the highlanders play the reds).
October 26th 2012 @ 2:02pm
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
Funk – yeah, but no one pays to watch you work. No one talks about it on internet forums. You’re talking about an entirely professional field – as I said, Test and Super Rugby is an odd mix of representative and professional sport. It’s a reality that professional concerns will erode the purity of sport to some extent, but as I said previously, we don’t have to like or let it go unremarked.
And as regards Harris, Kepu etc, I don’t begrudge them in the slightest, nor do many other people given by the comments I’ve read. The grudge, such as it is (and it’s pretty minor in the grand scheme of things) is with the ARU and the Australian franchises for exploiting the circumstances rather than developing their own players.
October 26th 2012 @ 2:23pm
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
You’ve never seen me work (definately worth the enterance fee)!
But they do develop their own players (and some quite good ones at that). Without a doubt their is not enough to fill out the 5 teams at the moment but it will get there with the right initiatives put in place.
As I’ve said before, as well as a fair few others, there are some problems in the ARU at the moment in regards to grass roots development, but hopefully with JON stepping asside we might be able to see a brighter furure.
October 26th 2012 @ 6:41pm
Dave said | October 26th 2012 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
Q Cooper, R Samo to add a couple more. Inthe recent past there was Matt Dunning, Dan Vickerman….
Sandy a touch confused why you feel Pocock, Genia and Ioane should be excluded from this list? It is a bit like me telling the missis “aside from the last 3 beers, I haven’t had any”.
October 26th 2012 @ 4:08am
Johnno said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:08am | Report comment
Harddata I think you have really lost it as your blind bias towards the AB’S is showing. Hanson born in 1959 was an adult and serious coach by the time he coached Head coach at Wales he was 43 years of age harddata not a minor or Teenager. He at 43, was mature enough to know the definition of a hypocrite . Adults know the defniaiton of that word when they are 18 when they first become an adult. Get a grip Harddata I think you have lost it mate. And are suffering from bias,double standards, and hypocrisy and a dose of stupidity as well Harddata.
October 26th 2012 @ 4:14am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:14am | Report comment
You obviously did not can the can Johnno.
Comparing his needs in Wales 9 years ago, the following 8 years apprenticeship in NZ, against the fact that the NZ draft is being pillaged by Australia currently, is stupid, as in dumb….
Did you stop to read what he actually said?????
October 26th 2012 @ 6:01am
Akann said | October 26th 2012 @ 6:01am | Report comment
What’s your point Johnno? Whether Hansen is a hypocrite or not does not make his statements any less true about Aussie rugby, does it? Why are you Aussies getting so personal and defensive about this?The fact is Australia wanted five teams and clearly can’t sustain them without poaching the talent from other countries, mainly NZ. I have no issues if the nz born players which currently number to about sixteen were all developed in the Australia system, but they were poached after coming through the nz system and hence I agree with Hansen. Sixteen is too many.
October 26th 2012 @ 9:28am
soapit said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
no doesnt make it less true. just makes him a massive sook for waiting until that precise moment to make an issue of it (in light of his own acceptance of the practice in wales)
October 26th 2012 @ 12:38pm
nick said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
if you want to be taken seriously makes an issue with it because he answers a question?
Comprehension fail soapit.
What’s not any less true is that Australia wanted 5 super sides without the players for it. They’re taking players from NZ because they don’t have them in Australia. Thats ridiculous. Any kind of mental gymnastics from the likes of you and other trolls on here doesn’t change the fact that it’s unacceptable and pointing that out from his position as All Black coach in no way makes Hansen a hypocrite.
The fact that an ignoramus like Johnno tries to paint an entirely different situation into hypocrisy is testament to how wrong the argument is. Johnno can barely spell or even identify decent grammar. How seriously can you take someone who posts like that?
October 26th 2012 @ 2:01pm
Bono said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Soapit, he was baited into responding by a trolling journo (Aussie guy according to Hansen himself). Same thing would have been said at another time if the journo had raised it then imo. This is the kind of confusion that arises when the story is not reported in its full context. Maybe the high road might have been to ignore the question, but we know that 99% of the time Hansen tends to be very straight up when asked a question by the media.
October 26th 2012 @ 2:47pm
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
“Definition of HYPOCRITE
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings”
Read number 2. Didn’t Hansen say “but all they’re doing is stealing our players”, yet when he was the Welsh coach he did exactly that tool nz players to play for Wales. This slots in to number 2 perfectly, and should actually make him the hypoctites poster child.
October 26th 2012 @ 5:35pm
soapit said | October 26th 2012 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
nick and bono see my response above somewhere regarding hansen getting suckered into saying it.
further to that:
from what you and others say he did get thrown a baited question but every other coach around the world manages to avoid coming across as a sook after a draw/loss and do you really think this is the first time anyones asked all them a curly question? of course not, they just used their professional media skills to avoid being suckered into making an unwise statement in the heat of the moment (no matter how true it might be or how badly you want to say it).
either he doesnt posses the media skills that you’d expect from any professional sportsmen (let alone a national coach) or he chose not to use them. no good blaming the journalists, they’re not your friends, its their job to make you look bad and hansens job to avoid it.
and nick i do want to be taken seriously as per your first sentence but i can’t quite follow your instructions there on how to do it. i guess you’re right it is a comprehension fail on that one but i really dont think i’m entirely to blame there. perhaps you could rephrase?
October 26th 2012 @ 7:16am
Justin2 said | October 26th 2012 @ 7:16am | Report comment
You got to admit its good work from Johnno on this occasion. I can smell the hypocrisy…
October 26th 2012 @ 5:11pm
Jutsie said | October 26th 2012 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
Its a master troll by the SMH, I thought they might lose their trolling abilities once growden left but this is just super. Im impressed lol.
October 26th 2012 @ 3:57am
Jiggles said | October 26th 2012 @ 3:57am | Report comment
Hansen may be a good coach (maybe not, its probably too early in his tenure), but he has a history of saying ridiculous cringe worthy things. The bloke is a muppet who rarely engages his brain before he opens his mouth, its that simple. Ted had a bit of a dry wit about him which was annoying, yet enjoyable at the same time.
At least with Deans you don’t have a clue about what he is actually saying.
October 26th 2012 @ 4:02am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:02am | Report comment
Oh Jiggles so Hansen is actually a Muppet because you have obviously witnessed Frank OZ with his hands up Mr Hansens Ass, and signed a deposition accordingly in front of a JP.
Then you conclude Deans is good because you are of a lower IQ…..
October 26th 2012 @ 4:48am
Jiggles said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:48am | Report comment
haha This has to be the funniest thing I have seen on the roar in a while. Definitely saving this one!
October 26th 2012 @ 9:31am
soapit said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
maybe you cam try discussing things without resorting to insults.
that is if your argument has enough strength to stand up without them.
October 26th 2012 @ 12:44pm
nick said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Not since he took over as AB’s coach. He’s far from a muppet, in fact he’s felt with Deans very well over his short tenure in charge and certainly had the wood on him in press conference interaction with the media.
The NZ press have not warmed to him in the past and had great trepidation about him becoming the coach. Interestingly since his take over he’s been far more open and engaged with the media than he ever was in his assistant days.
These days he’s considered a much better communicator and he’s found his own style.
If you’re looking to stamp your mark here, might be best to be on the right side of the argument.
October 26th 2012 @ 4:13am
Valleys Diehard of Brunswick st said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:13am | Report comment
Old debate. The Kiwis have used the Pacific Islands as a defacto breeding ground for a long time. To a much smaller extent the shoes on the other foot, I’d like to know what the % of rugby players born in NZ that play in SE QLD would be. Shed loads I would think but that gives NZ no right to complain, they haven’t developed the skills or intellect of the player. Kiwis move here by the bucket load, you can’t visit a pub or line up at Woolies without hearing the minor key drone of the accent. Kiwis, from Hansen down…. the chips on the shoulders are easier to manage with s beer and a smile. After all, its all just a 1st world problem!
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October 26th 2012 @ 4:32am
Jerry said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:32am | Report comment
Congratulations – you’ve managed to miss the point and hit all the cliches!
October 26th 2012 @ 4:43am
Valleys Diehard from Brunswick st. said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:43am | Report comment
Thanks @Jerry. Because you apparently wrote the article I’ll ask you to explain the point I missed. Over to you…
October 26th 2012 @ 6:12am
Akann said | October 26th 2012 @ 6:12am | Report comment
You really have no idea do you…take a walk through some of the suburbs in South Auckland and you might find yourself being the only white person on the street. Auckland is the biggest polynesian city in the world with over 200k islanders living there. I’m sure that you and a lot of Aussies know this but to justify your biased views, will always seem to bring up the old island poaching myth. Don’t bother in the future…
October 26th 2012 @ 9:01am
Acorn said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Both sides are hypocrites here. Aussies have poached just as much islander talent over the years as the AB’s have. And if you do a bit of research you’ll find Australia have poured a fortune into setting up training clinics in the islands with the aim of identifying talent to bring to Australia, not too mention the various private schools that give “scholarships” to islander kids to come play schoolboy rugby. NZ private schools do this too.
I think the point Hansen was trying to make which most of the posters here have missed is Harris was 21 when he “moved” to Australia which clearly is poaching a player. An islander who moves to NZ when he was three, grows up in NZ, trains in NZ systems is not comparable.
October 26th 2012 @ 12:54pm
nick said | October 26th 2012 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Old cliches and incorrect assumptions.
1100 allbacks
78 born overseas
vastly less than that came here as adults and NONE have arrived here without going through the NZ system to learn and develop their skills.
There would be more players playing FOR the islands born in NZ than players born in the islands playing for the All Backs currently.
13 of the Samoan RWC squad born and trained in NZ.
NZ is in fact the worlds rugby nursery.
Australian coach
Wales coach
2 of the last 4 lions coaches
SA super rugby coaches (at least 2 not counting assistants)
Last Japanese Coach
Munster coach
13 samoan players RWC
Is it 3 in the England side? Flutey, Waldrom, Hartley?
Cooper, Harris, with Australia (can’t remember the rest)
Countless players in the English, French and Japanese premierships
Thats just off the top of my head.
NZ is clearly the rugby world’s food basket
You’re welcome
October 26th 2012 @ 1:08pm
Funk said | October 26th 2012 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
“Old cliches and incorrect assumptions.” which is which, i’m not too sure from your list?
October 26th 2012 @ 4:17am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:17am | Report comment
What you do not understand/ most likely refuse to accept is that NZ is a Polynesian country not a penal colony…..
October 26th 2012 @ 4:48am
HardData said | October 26th 2012 @ 4:48am | Report comment
The All Blacks have a 2% ratio of non NZ born Polynesians in the last 100+ years.
Samoa is running at 40% for the last twelve months.
Sounds like some Australians are trying to disguise the lack of indigenous players in their team…..
Anyone just needs to go out to Hawkesbury or a little bit before Palm Beach to see how racially segregated junior club rugby is….
October 26th 2012 @ 7:17am
peeeko said | October 26th 2012 @ 7:17am | Report comment
well indigenous represent a tiny percentage of the population as comnpared to NZ ( i think around 3%). there is a huge representation in AFLand NRL of indigenous Australians. Also the Elllas, Beale, Lloyd Walker have played for the WB
October 26th 2012 @ 9:32am
Not Inerterested said | October 26th 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
For god sakes don’t bring facts into it peeko.
You will spoil HardDatas rant.