November tours: Southern hemisphere dominance?
By biltongbek, 30 Oct 2012 biltongbek is a Roar Guru & Live Blogger
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During June, the Six Nations teams sent their best down south for their annual attempt at invading famous rugby pitches such as Ellis Park, Sydney Football Stadium, Estadio Olimpico and Eden Park.
As usual they were met by stern defences and skilled teams to end up with a collective record of 10 losses, two wins and one draw against the four teams making up the newly established Rugby Championship.
Although the results were much the same as any year preceding 2012, the question remains whether they showed any improvement and would they build on what has been achieved during June?
England will be buoyed by their performance in the final Test in Port Elizabeth, their forwards had the Springboks under pressure for most part of the game, they hit the rucks with numbers and provided front-foot ball for their backline, but is that any different to what we have seen before?
Their back line still showed no creativity, Tuilagi managed few metres in the midfield and Barrit did not seem to be the playmaker required to set his backline on fire. Granted Lancaster experimented with a host of new players and looked very much like the team that threatened in the Six Nations but for a few results that went the wrong way.
Wales in my view have gone backward, missing Jamie Roberts in the midfield seemed to have influenced the incisiveness they showed on attack last year during the World Cup. There was little variation in their attack, and for poor decision making and execution by them in the last Test, could have come away with a draw.
Ireland showed it is possible for them to push even the best team in the world to the limit, but in my view they are not capable of sustaining the effort required to win week in and week out on a consistent basis. Is Brian O’Driscoll getting too old? McFadden was seriously exposed in defence and overall it seems the Irish are not capable of putting a forward pack together that can sustain 80 minutes of pressure. The only Irish player in my view that came out of the series with an enhanced reputation was Cian Healy.
Scotland struggled during the Six Nations. They showed intent to run the ball and, were it not for yellow cards, handling errors and poor execution, they could have won a match or two. When it came time to travel south, on a wet, cold and miserable Tuesday evening they managed to beat an Australian team (some would suggest a second string ) useless in wet weather. The fact is Scotland won the match with their ‘old’ style, which is simply to strangle and slow down ball at every opportunity and kick their goals.
Very little can be taken out of the French performances against a decidedly weak Argentinian team and Italy, well, they are just Italy.
They will have home advantage this time round, Australia will be encouraged about their performance over the all Blacks in their most recent test, Hansen seems to be intent on giving his whole touring squad a run (could there be an opportunity for an upset win?) and South Africa don’t seem to have yet figured out how to win.
Meyer has again called up Morne Steyn for duty, and after his woeful performances with the boot (which could have won an extra few games), it seems Meyer is still intent on Morne Steyn being his pivot.
Argentina can hold their heads up high after their first season among the big boys. Sure, I don’t expect them to make a massive leap forward in just one season, but Wales, France and Ireland will meet a bunch of blokes battle hardened after the Rugby Championship.
There are bound to be losses for Australia, South Africa and Argentina, it has been a long time since any of these teams had a perfect run in the north.
With both South Africa and Australia still hit by injuries and selection issues, this might be the best chance the Six Nation teams have to send them packing without a single win.
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October 30th 2012 @ 6:50am
Ivan - Cape Town said | October 30th 2012 @ 6:50am | Report comment
“Australia will be encouraged about their performance over the all Blacks”
Kan duidelik lees jou eerste taal is nie engels nie
But the content of your articles are always good to read.
I think the Boks, especially on the back of the Currie Cup showdown, will clean sweep up North. The same is expected of NZ. Australia, if they can match their performancce against NZ in Bledisloe III, should also come away unscatched.
From the Boks perspective – We now have some new kids on the block really putting in high energy skilled performances.
Etzebeth seems to be getting better everytime he runs out, He single handedly destroyed the Sharks lineout and was for my money the man of the Match at Kings Park Durban. He seems to have the energy of a youthful Schalk Burger, with possibly more strength.
Marcel Coetzee is a tackling machine, and will be a very high impact sub.
Alberts loves playing on the hard fields up North, and Wales in particular will be pleased that they dont have to face him again this time.
Duane and Flo are a fantastic combination and outmuscled McCaw and Reid – at least i thought so.
Jantjies/Lambie and yes even Steyn will go allot better now that the Boks have found they can run the ball. If you rewatch the games of WC2011, Steyn actually makes allot of line breaks, stands flat and throws some good passes into gaps. If he refinds his form, i wont be totally against seeing him run out for us again.
Rhule is a star for the future, im excited to see what he can do.
JP is back.
All in all, I think we can be quite optimistic – Remember, it took HM a few months to slowly move out of the PdV game plan, we all knew that just turning our game around would take time. – and i think he has taken the right approach.
I dont see any real threat from England, Ireland or Scotland at the moment…
October 30th 2012 @ 7:13am
biltongbek said | October 30th 2012 @ 7:13am | Report comment
Yeah sorry mate, my use of the english language does let me down every now and then.
I am certainly not as confident as you are.
Looking at the squad and the injuries, I ask myself how far Heyneke Meyer’s likely matchday 22 is from the best possible team.
1. Beast Mtwarira
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Willem Alberts
8. duane Vermeulen
Looking at the forward pack and impact subs. No Coenie Oosthuizen, no Andries Bekker, no Bismarck du Plessis, Schalk Burger, Possibly no Francois Louw (he got injured on the weekend).
That means as far as our Forward pack goes it is far from being the best.
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Morne Steyn
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Jean de Villiers
13. jaco Taute
14. JP Pietersen
15. Zane Kirchner
Our problem is we have a shortage of experienced half backs, Morne Steyn is likely to be called into the 10 jumper, and I am so over him it isn’t funny, Jean de Villiers is past his sell by date and there will be no Frans Steyn, no Habana and likely Lambie who has been the form ten this past month will get little game time.
Sure this backline might be good enough (possibly) but no fire works.
Obviously injuries have hurt us and it prevented us from putting out our best team the whole year, but some of the players that will undoubtedly make a difference is not being selected.
October 31st 2012 @ 6:46am
chris said | October 31st 2012 @ 6:46am | Report comment
Sadly I think you pretty much spot on about the team Meyer will pick.
Personally I would go with Chilliboy over Strauss, Lambie for Steyn and Taute at fullback with Du Jong coming in at outside centre (how good was he in the CC final).
The bench will be a problem though. As you mentioned, I can’t see where the spark will come from with the squad Meyer has selected.
Fortunately this team should have enough to get through undefeated, Ireland is having their own trouble with the changing of the guard and England shouldn’t be any better than they were in June while the Springboks should be based on their last three game of the Rugby Championship.
That said, if the Springboks repeat their performance from Argentina and Australia, Meyer might be looking at very long holiday soon…
October 30th 2012 @ 7:11am
nickoldschool said | October 30th 2012 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Its always great to see SH teams head north and play in these wonderful stadiums, even if these tours dont mean the same on both sides.
SA and Oz are missing quite a few players through injuries (or choice) but so are france: Dusautoir, Rougerie, Yachvilli, Harinordoquy, Médard, Poitrenaud or Palisson arent here. There are 8 new faces and PSA has for the first time called 3 guys from French Polynesia: Suta, Vahaamahina and Tolofua (suspended though). We will also discover the 18yo centre Fickou who is doing great at Toulouse.
Hope the north wins a few.
October 30th 2012 @ 7:15am
biltongbek said | October 30th 2012 @ 7:15am | Report comment
Unfortunately SA won’t be playing against France this year.
October 30th 2012 @ 8:12am
nickoldschool said | October 30th 2012 @ 8:12am | Report comment
yep, would have loved to see them play each other. i still dont get why Paul Jordaan didnt make the cut. I watched him last week during the CC final and he has a lot of pace and great footwork!!
October 30th 2012 @ 7:33am
Salada said | October 30th 2012 @ 7:33am | Report comment
BILTONG – that’s a pretty gloomy last line of yours. Without a single win? I don’t believe Italy will beat the Wallabies. And I do believe that the Boks, despite some players left behind, will win all three of their games although the England match will be close. Alberts and Vermeulen came good at the end of the RC, as did Kirchner. JP back is great news, not sure if you guys can’t do better than Hougaard on the wing. Fervently hope that HM will find some time for Elton.
October 30th 2012 @ 8:34am
biltongbek said | October 30th 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
It is a bit morbid, isn’t it. To be honest I am merely suggesting that OZ and SA aren’t fielding their top teams and could be vulnerable.
October 30th 2012 @ 8:23am
Untimely said | October 30th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
England will be the only tough game for the Boks, and they’re having injury problems too. Here’s something from today’s Guardian.
” England are facing a mounting injury crisis before the autumn internationals with Joe Marler the latest player to be added to the casualty list. The Harlequins prop is receiving treatment on a damaged hamstring, prompting Stuart Lancaster, the head coach, to call up Worcester’s Matt Mullan as cover.
Mullan’s invitation to England’s training headquarters came just as Lancaster was promising to make a statement on Tuesday about the condition of the hooker Dylan Hartley and his injured Northampton team-mate Courtney Lawes. Both were due to have scans on knee injuries on Monday night, although there are suggestions that Hartley will miss all four Tests – against Fiji on 10 November and then Australia, South Africa and New Zealand on successive Saturdays – which will decide England’s seedings for the 2015 World Cup.
There are also concerns over the centre Jonathan Joseph, the scrum-half Ben Youngs, the captain Chris Robshaw, the Wasps forwards Tom Palmer and James Haskell – who both pulled out of Sunday’s game against London Welsh – and now Marler, all of whom were injured during or before last weekend’s league matches – the last before the home nations could wrap their players in cotton wool. “
October 30th 2012 @ 11:19pm
Colin N said | October 30th 2012 @ 11:19pm | Report comment
Corbisiero is the bigger loss considering how he monstered the Bok scrum in his brief time on the field in June.
I like the look of Vunipola though, an excellent talent.
Hooker’s a concern. Not a huge fan of Hartley, but his absence could mean Tom Youngs starts and his lineout throwing just isn’t up to scratch at the moment.
He’s a converted centre – by Meyer no less – and would have been an excellent option from the bench, but I will be concerned if he starts.
Robshaw and B. Youngs should be fit, but I’m not sure on the situation with Joseph, although I assume it’s not too serious.
October 31st 2012 @ 2:28am
Ben.S said | October 31st 2012 @ 2:28am | Report comment
I’ve been really impressed with Hartley this season, Colin. I think he’s a huge loss. Conversely, I’m not at all sold on Youngs. The press go on like he’s the English Schalk Brits, and if he starts and throws in like he did against Gloucester then things could get embarrassing.
Loosehead is an issue, but at least another young prop gets some experience, which is no bad thing this far out from the WC. Corbisiero does seem injury prone though, which is a worry.
I’d love to see 12Trees start at 12.
October 31st 2012 @ 3:05am
Colin N said | October 31st 2012 @ 3:05am | Report comment
I’ve always been impressed with Hartley at club level but not so much at international. He’s had a particularly good season this time around though.
Re: props, I’ve never been too concerned when we’ve got injuries in that area because there’s plenty of guys who can do a job. We might have lost Corbisiero, but we’ve got Mullan coming in.
We have less depth at tighthead, but you’ve still got Wilson, Doran-Jones etc. Okay, the latter I don’t particularly rate, but he can do a job at international level. I would certainly bet that those guys would get near most other international squads.
Agree about 36, he’s had a good start for Gloucester this season. Would rather have him than JTH who, IMO, has looked good because he’s been playing outside the best 8, 9, 10 combination in Europe and inside a 13 who is extremely creative, whether it is Lowe or Hopper. In fact, on Hopper I was reading he was 27. How did someone not pick him up when he was younger? A wonderfully talented player.
October 31st 2012 @ 8:38am
Ben.S said | October 31st 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
I’ve oft been a critic of Hartley, but he really surprised me against SA, although his new (and IMO illegal) tackling technique let Bismarck du Plessis in for a try. Genuinely think he’s a huge loss.
True re loosehead, but unless Mullan really ups his game I think it’s unlikely that he’ll usurp Marler or Corbisiero, and it would have been really beneficial for Marler to have played against the SH sides I think.
I really don’t rate JTH. He’s not even that powerful, and his game is basically based on him being a crash ball merchant.
There’s always a Hopper. Just look at Tom Johnson. That’s just English rugby, although tbf he is on the small side. Good player though. Shame Lowe has been injured. Really like his style, the way he always carries with two hands.
October 31st 2012 @ 8:46am
Ben.S said | October 31st 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
As an aside, I see Steve Diamond is up to his old tricks again…
October 31st 2012 @ 9:48am
Colin N said | October 31st 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Yes. I will refrain from going into detail, apart from to say that I find it extraordinary there is this upheaval when they are preparing to play their biggest game of the season. I believe there’s two LV games after Irish on Friday so why not do it then?
Mitchell’s also a bizarre appointment – he seems to be like Brewer and look how that turned out.
October 31st 2012 @ 8:45pm
Ben.S said | October 31st 2012 @ 8:45pm | Report comment
Did Diamond bring in Hanks, Scott and Redpath?
I think Diamond is on another planet. He’s brought in a bunch of second rate mediocre players like Ward, Cobilas and Easter on the basis that they’re tough nuts but in reality they’re just mediocre Premiership players. That said, I think your squad is much better than where it is in the league, just poor player recruitment in key positions.
I think Mitchell could provide a short-term boost, but he is one of those old school Kiwis like Shelford and Brewer who seem to wind up players, so probably not a keeper…
October 31st 2012 @ 10:23pm
Colin N said | October 31st 2012 @ 10:23pm | Report comment
He brought in Hanks and Redpath, Scott was brought in by Brewer I believe.
I don’t think Hanks should have been sacked. He was in charge of everything from backs, defencce and attack.
He’s not a defence coach and was sacked because of the defence. One of the issues Sale have is they’re understaffed on the coaching front, so I don’t understand why they didn’t bring a specialist to work alongside him.
And the backline was great last season, with most of the forwards also carrying well and off-loading, which I believe was implemented by Hanks. That was despite having a severely unpowered pack in the set-piece.
Redpath’s come in, implemented his ideas and it hasn’t worked. On the plus side, Ross Harrison is only 20 and looks a super scrummager, Tommy Taylor has been impressive at hooker, Cipriani is starting to find his feet and the backline has plenty of talent.
Still find it amazing though that they continue with Tuitupou and Leota in the centre when Addison impresses every time he plays.
November 1st 2012 @ 8:50pm
Ben.S said | November 1st 2012 @ 8:50pm | Report comment
That is true. Sale did play some very attractive rugby last year. Do you think Burrell is a big loss?
I will look out for those players.
I genuinely reckone Diamond needs to go. He’s one of my pet peeves. Tbf to Redpath he didn’t pick any of the squad, and look at the sort of players he brought in for Gloucester this season: Morgan, Cowan and Twelvetrees.
What happened to the Russian lock (Oistrikov?)? Is he injured?
November 1st 2012 @ 10:27pm
Colin N said | November 1st 2012 @ 10:27pm | Report comment
Burrell isn’t a big loss in terms of the fact that he didn’t feature much last season.
I think he’s an excellent talent, though, and impressed in pre-season before getting injured. I would have kep him, but you know………….
“Tbf to Redpath he didn’t pick any of the squad”
And Diamond has stated that on record, which makes the situation even stranger. It was interesting that Diamond came out and said that Redpath had been offered the backs’ coach’s job, only for him to be named head coach (effectively the same job he was doing as director of rugby) the next day.
Has Redpath negotiated himself into a higher position, as the compensation would have been huge had he gone (remember they had to pay compensation for Hanks and Scott)? Or, has Kennedy stepped in and thrown his weight into the matter, because it was him who was quoted the statement yesterday.
As for Ostrikov, he’s injured. He was meant to come back in the middle to late October but that’s obviously been delayed slightly.
Lock isn’t really an issue with Gray, McKenzie, Myall etc, it’s the front-row. I do look at the pack, though, and think the back five is excellent. Vernon, Seymour and Powell is a really good and balanced back-row and there’s some great options at lock. They just lack a tighthead that can stop the scrum going backwards. In fact, Harrison is a loosehead so it might be worth moving Eiffion Lewis-Roberts back to tighthead to see how that goes.
October 30th 2012 @ 10:06am
Vhavnal said | October 30th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Isn’t every Northern Hemisphere November tour DOMINATED by Southern Hemisphere teams?.
I think teams like NZ and South Africa would go home UNDEFEATED but I feel Australia may lose to either England or France (or both ).
I suspect Samoa would be the only team to create a major upset against either Wales or Scotland and well Fiji, they will only be able to beat Georgia..they will be beaten by England, Gloucester and Ireland A..
November 2nd 2012 @ 1:25pm
KiwiDave said | November 2nd 2012 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I think its time for the NH to bring their secret weapon out of hiding……Lithuania
October 30th 2012 @ 2:41pm
james said | October 30th 2012 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
The AllBlacks will demolish the Northern Hemisphere sides comfortably. Tawera Kerr Barlow is a massive up & comer with Waikato & the Chiefs so watch out for him at halfback. Hopefully he has a blinder & finally ousts Weepu for a spot in the top 22. Steve Hansen will be looking to finish his 1st year in charge on a high so the ABs will look to go undefeated.
I do feel bad for Robbie Fruean who would be a shoe in for the ABs if not for his heart condition, but fortunately there is enough depth there to mange without him.
Hopefully the northern hemisphere sides can improve & upset 1 of the southern sides, I just hope its not the ABs!
October 30th 2012 @ 6:11pm
yahyah said | October 30th 2012 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
James Weepu will not lose his spot anytime soon regardless of how TKB goes. Main point being both TKB is very much inexperienced at test level so will not be a suitable replacement for Smith. Especially if they come across a pressure game in which we have seen Smith a few times this year quiet down in terms of performances.
and Robbie Fruean will never be in AB contention. Doesn’t have much ball playing skills except tucking it in and running full throttle. Not up to AB standards.
October 30th 2012 @ 8:51pm
Chivas said | October 30th 2012 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
Just because he is a powerful and gifted runner, don’t you think that just overshadows his passing. I think he sets up his outsides, but we haven’t had a runner since Bunce. I wonder about his work rate, but am not sure comments about his skill as a centre are fair.
I like the fact he actually creates a genuine point of attack. I’d like to see him have a run and see what he does at test level. Remember Bunce never did much for North Harbour, but he always performed for the AB’s especially in his later years.
October 31st 2012 @ 6:42am
Jerry said | October 31st 2012 @ 6:42am | Report comment
“we haven’t had a runner since Bunce”
Except for that guy who played 50 tests at centre and was captain of the team from 04-05?
November 2nd 2012 @ 1:23pm
KiwiDave said | November 2nd 2012 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Wont be the AB’s losing a game. They will be absolutely seething after the Wallaby draw and hell bent on causing carnage wherever they go in November
October 31st 2012 @ 1:56am
Doug said | October 31st 2012 @ 1:56am | Report comment
NZ should go undefeated. I expect the Wales game to be close though.
Boks may go undefeated but I have a feeling England might get one up against them considering they know what to expect from the Boks as playing them earlier in the year.
Australia. I just cant see them beating France and England based on form, avaliablity of players and playing on their home ground.
Argentina-Will beat Wales and Ireland by less than 5 and lose to France. Hopefully they got something out of the Four nations
November 2nd 2012 @ 1:21pm
KiwiDave said | November 2nd 2012 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
Argentina is far more likely to beat France than they are to beat Wales or Ireland. Argentina has a magnificent record over France. They really raise their effort against the frogs.
October 31st 2012 @ 2:24am
Ben.S said | October 31st 2012 @ 2:24am | Report comment
Barritt went off after 50 minutes in the first Test and managed something like 15 minutes off the bench in the final Test. And all things being equal he was never picked to be a playmaker. Same as Tuilagi at 12, which baffles me when Lancaster made so many noises about a footballing 12. I think England were pretty awful during the series, but tbf they also did some things very well in fits and bursts. Likewise SA.
Think you’re being overly critical of Wales. Personally I think they’re a pretty limited side, but they probably should have won two of the Tests, and when was the last time that happened?
October 31st 2012 @ 10:29am
jnr said | October 31st 2012 @ 10:29am | Report comment
fruen needs to pick up his defence to b consider
November 1st 2012 @ 2:42pm
Andrea said | November 1st 2012 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Actually the stadium in Rome is called “Stadio Olimpico”, “Estadio” is Spanish not Italian