Han Berger interview: producing Socceroos
By John Davidson, 31 Oct 2012 John Davidson is a Roar Guru
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Football Federation Australia technical director Han Berger believes that Australia’s development pathways are improving and that there is too much emphasis on results when it comes to our junior national teams.
The 62-year-old Dutchman has been in charge of identifying and developing players, as well as overseeing Australian national youth teams, since 2009.
It has been a tough year when it comes to our youth representative teams. The Olyroos failed to reach the London Olympics and didn’t score a goal in qualifying.
The Joeys have just missed out on the under-17 World Cup next year and the spotlight is currently on the Young Socceroos who are trying to qualify for the 2013 under-20 World Cup in Turkey.
At the same time the Socceroos are in desperate need of new blood but few young players are currently starring in Europe’s top leagues. And our neighbours in Asia are spending more and more on development in a bid to breach the technical gap.
However, Berger says that while obviously there is still work to be done, he is convinced that big strides have been made in Australia.
Coaching licenses have been overhauled, the Skillaroos program has been installed and the AIS has been reformed.
“Huge changes have taken place, and are taking place, in the fields of Coach Education and Youth Development. Unfortunately this is still very poorly understood, probably because we haven’t communicated the messages very well,” Berger says.
“The main problems for our youth National teams are:
· The lack of year round football in Australia
· The lack of quality International Competition
· Not enough playing time for young Australian players the A-League (too many visa players that do not really add anything to the level of the A0League)
· The ongoing exodus of players to overseas clubs at too young an age
· The reluctance of overseas clubs to release players for our youth National Teams
· The limited number of Australian players who are starters in strong International competitions.”
Berger has a point, well, several, in my eyes.
The ridiculously short size of the A-League season is hurting the sport in general. Our players are simply not getting enough football. The off-season is way, way too long and 26 rounds, compared with other competitions around the world, is a joke.
The release of overseas-based players by clubs for junior national team duty remains a problem, as it has been for years. Little seems to change in that area.
Getting playing time for our kids in the A-League is another important issue. I think this has improved in recent years, with the introduction of the National Youth League a big plus, but some clubs still insist on bringing in second-rate foreigners.
Credit to the Central Coast Mariners and Melbourne for largely investing in youth in a big way, but there remains several questionable signings around the competition.
Fox example, how much does Tiago bring to the A-League? I’d rather see former Joey and current Young Socceroo Connor Chapman or another talented Aussie getting an opportunity and playing at the back for the Jets.
And what about Dong-Hyun and Takahashi at the Roar? Sure they are both talented kids, but shouldn’t we help develop young Australian footballers not Koreans and Japanese? Both these nations don’t need any extra help in development at the moment.
This is not a diatribe against foreign players as there are a countless number both in the past and now who have improved our league greatly and given back to Australian football – like Berisha, Zwaanswijk, Flores, Hernandez, Fred, Yorke and others, not to mention the current marquee brigade of Heskey, Ono and Del Piero.
But perhaps we need to limit the visa spots and aim higher when it comes to the qualities of possible overseas signings. A maximum of four or three visa spots may be the answer.
Thankfully the A-League has already improved greatly from its early days of Brian Deane and his ilk.
When it comes to the junior national teams, Berger believes we shouldn’t get hung up on results. As Australia had a fantastic ran back in the 1990s with our Joeys and Young Socceroos reps, reaching semi-finals and finals of World Cups, a fair level of expectation surrounds these teams.
According to Berger: “In 1999 the Joeys reached the final of the U/17 World Cup but what is the value of that if currently, now these players are 29/30 years old, not one was playing for the Socceroos against Iraq?”
In his eyes, while of course it is better if our teams do better at these tournaments, it is all about the end result – producing players for the Socceroos.
Of that 1999 Joeys squad that lost in the final on penalties to Brazil, only Josh Kennedy, Jade North and Scott McDonald have become regular Socceroos. Currently, McDonald has been cast out due to a lack of goal-scoring, North is more of a back-up and Kennedy is in the wilderness because of injury. None of those three played in the recent 2-1 win over Iraq.
Again, Berger makes a fair point.
What is the point of qualifying and winning/doing well in junior tournaments if our senior teams and our national league don’t see the benefit?
You can look at the 2000 Olyroo squad – packed with talent, but a failure after losing all three games at the Sydney Olympics. We didn’t have to qualify as hosts and our team boasted Bresciano, Lazaridis, Neill, Viduka, Skoko, Grella, Culina, Emerton and still we couldn’t get a point. But you could argue that the core of that team later went on to great success at the 2006 World Cup.
It is a conundrum – the junior teams need more games and to reach tournaments to improve, and the only way to get more games is results, but to get results they may have to play a more basic or direct style of football.
Looking at the Joeys sides in the past 13 years since that 1999 squad and there hasn’t been many that have produced Socceroos.
In 2001 it was Brett Holman, Carl Valeri and Nathan Coe. In 2003 it was Kristian Sarkies and Erik Paartalu. In 2005 it was Matt Spiranovic, Robbie Kruse and Nathan Burns. It 2007 it was Aaron Mooy and Brent McGrath, and in 2009 you could say the pick of the litter was probably Eli Babalj, Ben Kantarovski and Brendan Hamill.
We are currently reaping what we sowed in terms of our development structure from the start of the 21st century to the advent of the A-League.
Of course, not every talented kid at the age of 15 or 16 will continue to develop and progress to become a senior national team player. This is common sense and happens in every sport.
But we do want our national teams to produce the best talent possible and for the likes of the Joeys to help develop as many future Socceroos as they can. You would think three to five players from a Joeys squad could progress up the ranks.
So, overall, how is Australian football’s development progressing and are we improving as a football nation?
Realistically we won’t get a clear and exact picture of that for another five to ten years.
Changing a nation’s football culture takes time and patience, two things that are never in abundance.
Twitter: johnnyddavidson
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October 31st 2012 @ 9:48am
Midfielder said | October 31st 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
This is huge issue and it requires many ideas and input from as many as possible…
For me two things stand out …. lack of playing time… lack of quality training…
My two bobs worth is first have the kids play in state league teams tied to an A-League team… the Mariners have this with one state two teams and a de facto arrangement with the Blacktown Demons however these should be expanded and state teams assigned to A-League teams as well as Association rep teams should also be assigned to A-League teams… then have the youth play in the state league teams when not playing in the A-League…
Second insist all A-League teams develop training academies the same with state one and state two teams… the more quality training tho academies the better…
Just my tho’s….
October 31st 2012 @ 12:36pm
whiskeymac said | October 31st 2012 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
like the second point mid – i assume $ is a big issue as traditionally HAL clubs lose not make money, and benefactors prefer to spend millions on one or two players not 5 or more potential hopefuls.
October 31st 2012 @ 10:16am
Ben of Phnom Penh said | October 31st 2012 @ 10:16am | Report comment
This is a very good article.
I tend to agree that the amount of playing time is key and as Mid has noted there is a need to better utilise the second tier of football at the state level. This is something that is done with reasonable success in AFL where squad players and those coming back from injury find themselves playing for contracted state league teams.
An FFA Cup where NYL teams can enter at the early stages would also assist somewhat.
October 31st 2012 @ 10:35am
Fussball ist unser leben said | October 31st 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
Thanks for this, John Davidson – I thoroughly enjoy reading these type of interviews, which offer direct information from knowledgeable football people.
October 31st 2012 @ 10:49am
AndyRoo said | October 31st 2012 @ 10:49am | Report comment
Once the TV deal is settled and the A league teams have financial surety for the next 5 years I think connecting the 2nd and 1st tier has to be the new priority.
Whether it be NYL teams staying together and playing in Winter in their state league or a pre season FFA cup…… or both.
Time for a little more love towards the lower end of the pyramid now the top is looking pretty solid.
October 31st 2012 @ 12:15pm
Griffo said | October 31st 2012 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
For me extending the junior grassroots season is going to do a world of benefit to improve our juniors. Some clubs and associations run a six-a-side comp for older juniors up. Ive always maintained that football should be seen as a year-round sport not a seasonal one. Not all kids will do futsal, beach, six-a-side but it gives them an option. Glaringly there is little push for summer football by the top down.
Jets Youth played in NNSW football state league this year and will next season, giving them football all year. The Emerging Jets squads under the youth side will fill in the age levels below (playing above their age group for the most part). More games for development right through the program.
Academies tied to A-League clubs are going to be a big thing for the future but much could be done now with youth development and academies before the bricks and turf facilities go up. Mariners so far ahead of the game here.
While results at youth level are not important, they will be but one measure of how successful development methods are compared to the rest along with technique, tactics, improvisation and mentality.
On the last, it seems to me that while SSF being comp-less is a good thing for learning the game, some of the older SSF age groups could do with some competition, and this is where those summer comps could come in to instilling some aspects of winning mentality that is part of development.
Great article John. Plenty to discuss with this one. Keep up the good work.
October 31st 2012 @ 12:22pm
Griffo said | October 31st 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Another point on young player exodus: I also wonder how long until the like of the Amini’s, Rogic’s and perhaps Goodwin’s decide to stay here and complete development in a senior competition (A-League) rather than go overseas?
I part it will be determined by the development reputation of clubs, who is coaching those sides (ability to promote and complete a young players development) and the amount of game time they are getting (season length but also who is on the starting squad list).
Getting this development aspect right might see some players stay until they are 22 and killing the A-League with maturity, rather than leave at 18 and finish development with potentially less game time overseas.
October 31st 2012 @ 12:39pm
whiskeymac said | October 31st 2012 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
The season is far too short.
..
There was a recent article on MVs youth team which was a revelation to me at least as to some of the set up, style and players implemented there. Only recently has the HAL club taken control of its youth set up – for the bigget (alleged) HAL club this was a surprise to me. How fractured and dysfunctional are the rest of the NYL teams – are they taken seriously by the clubs… only CCM and maybe NJ have positive meida on this (GCU ironically did too)
October 31st 2012 @ 5:02pm
nordster said | October 31st 2012 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
Good read John…just on your point about the younger japanese and korean kids that have played here. While they aren’t necessarily making a major impact, for me there are a few positives in their presence. The technical base a lot of even young players from these countries can have a good effect on their same age peers, in a day in day out training environment. Also given they are often not even playing so much, it isn’t taking a starting spot away from an aussie as much as a more experienced overseas player would. So Han could prefer them perhaps to one who would start?
I do like Berger also, just wish his critique was given more priority especially the length of the league season. There are ways to prioritise his main points he makes. I have always thought the big one is the insistence on an ‘equal opportunity’ climate for the clubs. Will use the acronym SC to not sound repetitive lol. But it is a distortion of the labour and financial structures of the league and comes at a cost. So to prop up the minimum floor in the ‘equal opportunity’ rationale, FFA has chosen to prioritise keeping smaller clubs in line with larger ones. The money that has gone into that at the expense things like extending the season. Some say a true open competition style league would be the death of the game here, in fact it has many positives. One main one is taking away the drain that the small clubs are on the federation. Not sustainable over the long term.
I do wonder what Berger’s thoughts are on the aleague embracing a broader mix of club sizes, through abolishing the SC altogether. What positive effect does that have on development….letting small clubs be small clubs, and large clubs not be as shackled. Then there is the challenge of building and keeping a squad together in a league with such personnel restrictions. Interesting to compare that on football terms, a more openly competitive league to the socialist style, contrived equal opportunity league here.
(Apologies for straying back to my fave topic…am keeping it further down the page at least
)
October 31st 2012 @ 7:06pm
jbinnie said | October 31st 2012 @ 7:06pm | Report comment
John- I found this article on a very,very important subject just a little confusing mainly because after having read it 3 times I am having difficulty on whose ideas are being expressed.Berger says great strides have been made and yet it was only a few short months ago when he stated he was not happy with the way things were progressing,and had actually called in an “expert” from America to comsult.
The lack of “year round football” for youngsters has me puzzled as well for I would imagine our less experienced young HAL players could be farmed out to State League clubs who play their football all winter.
“Lack of international competition”. When compared with the available international competition only a few short years ago this is just not true,our kids today are constantly in the news for playing in some comp. or other.
Surely the final 3 points you make are more of a worry for Olger in his attempt to try out players, than it would be for a Director of Coaching whose mandate is surely the education of 6 -16 year old players.
The ratio of success you (or Han) cites as players progressing out of under age football to full blown senior status,roughly about 3 out of 11, I find very acceptable.
You (or Han) mention we should expect improvment to take another 5-10 years . With a programme that has already been in vogue for 7 years, (2 Dof C’s), I feel if this be true it is time to have a long hard look at the programme so far and start to ask questions that probe deeper into it’s effectiveness,for,if it fails, where will we be relative to our Asian neighbours come 2020.???? jb
November 1st 2012 @ 9:41am
John davidson said | November 1st 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Jbinnie, The lack of year round football is a big problem as young HAL players aren’t farmed out to State League clubs. Usually these players are developed by State League clubs & then signed by HAL, and then effectively warehoused. The relationship between HAL & State League clubs needs to improve dramatically.
Apologies for the confusion, the views of Han are displayed in quotation marks. The rest are my views. Yes, there are some issues for Osieck to contend with but these things are all connected & inter-related. I agree we should be seeing some results, and we have in some regards. But for 10-13 year olds who were exposed to new programs & better coaching seven years ago, they will only be in their 17-20 year old age group. So the Aminis, Antonis’, Tombides etc. What I meant that structural & technical change takes time, hence Japan’s 20-year plan.
November 1st 2012 @ 5:59pm
jbinnie said | November 1st 2012 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
John Thank you for the prompt clarification on your article which I have now read and realise that my comments should have aimed at Berger.
(1) He states first of all that huge changes (not improvements) have been made in “youth development and coach education”.
He then admits these may have been poorly communicated. Whose fault is that????
(2) He then makes 6 points that he reckons are causing him problems and enumerates them thus-
“Lack of year round football in Australia”.This is a nonsense.Every week we hear of top players in the EPL being loaned out to other clubs and yet after 4 years on the job of player development he has not yet convinced HAL clubs that they should farm out their ypongsters to state league teams in winter. Who is to blame for that?
“Lack of quality international competition”.This too is a nonsense for our kids now have far more international competitions to play in than ever our so called “Golden Generation” had beginning with Asian Cups and World Cups just for a start.
” Not enough playing time for kids in the HAL”. a dangerous statement ,for HAL clubs are fighting battles on many fronts,finance,crowds,,working capital, etc and they could reply by saying Berger has to produce the players who will FORCE their way into a team not be given an entry just because they have been selected in an under 17 squad.
“”The on-going exodus of young players overseas”. That’s been going on for years and perhaps if there was some evidence that our under -age squads were performing well at the highest levels,and influence was brought to bear on the HAL to have good academies the exodus would begin to slow down.Visa players could be controlled,all he has to do is sell the idea to his employers.
” The reluctance of overseas clubs to release young players” From what we are told there are many of our youngsters not playing at the highest level so one is led to believe there may be a “hidden ” reason for this “reluctance”. ie Insurance cover?.
The last reason is totally ambiguous for is he admitting there are not enough good Australian players playing in the EC for instance. A few short seasons ago there were more than a few so the question is then posed again,whose fault is that peceived reasoning.
That’s about it John,the last statement barely deserves comment with the example he cites with the 1999 (an NSL year) World Cup Final appearance of an Aussie team againt Brazil.only producing 3 players who are making a good living out of the game overseas and then dares to say “they did not play against Iraq”. Let me ask him a question through you. If an under- age side had been good enough to reach a world cup final in recent years how many of them would be connected to top teams in Europe or HAL teams in Australia. That answer would make interesting reading.
Thanks again for the clarification John. Cheers jb
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