Quade’s baaaccckkk!!! And his Wallaby mates aren’t happy
By Spiro Zavos, 10 Dec 2012 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- ARU, Israel Folau, Quade Cooper, Rugby Union, Sonny Bill Williams
418 Have your say
Quade Cooper with manager Khoder Nasser (AAP Image/Dan Peled)
Related coverage
Roy Masters has the best sporting contacts in Sydney. Wayne Smith is a virtual spokesman of the Queensland Rugby Union. On Saturday both these well-informed journalists wrote about the case of Quade Cooper and its side-kick, the Israel Folau issue.
The main conclusion that can be drawn from the articles published in The Australian and The Sydney Morning Herald is that Australian rugby has created a fine mess for itself.
Everyone involved seems to be leaking like sieves on these matters. Putting all the articles and leaks together we get a picture of a wilful, untrustworthy (in my view) and egocentric Cooper playing off the various parties involved with his rugby contract in a manner that insults the code he makes huge amounts of money playing for.
Let’s start at the end, as it were. Cooper’s contract with the Reds and the ARU ends on December 31.
It is the biggest of any current Wallaby mainly because when it was negotiated Cooper insisted that he be granted $1 more than Matt Giteau, who had been the highest paid Australian rugby player.
With a December 31 deadline in mind, the ARU back in April (note the date) put an extremely generous offer for 2013/2014 on the table to Cooper and his manager Khoder Nasser.
Cooper refused to sign the offer and during his infamous interview on The Rugby Club maintained that the offers to him were totally unacceptable. The April offer was actually over-generous given the fact that Cooper had played a very poor 2011 Rugby World Cup tournament.
Ironically, Robbie Deans was criticised by many people (including numbers of Roarers) for playing Cooper in the semi-final against New Zealand.
Cooper, too, was out injured, knee damage suffered during the 2011 Rugby World Cup third place play-off.
There was also the juvenile twittering throughout 2011, the stupidity of kneeing Richie McCaw in several Tests, boorish and trash behaviour with Kurtley Beale and James O’Connor, the self-styled ‘Three Amigos’ and the matter of police action involving two laptops.
Given all this, the ARU showed terrific good faith and, indeed, some compassion in making its generous offer to Cooper in April.
This good faith and compassion was met with a surly arrogance that reflects poorly on Cooper.
Instead of accepting the offer or negotiating in good faith on a few minor details, Nasser (presumably acting on Cooper’s instruction) start to make a series of unacceptable demands.
One of the demands was for an arrangement allowing Cooper to have boxing matches during his rugby season, a sort of small man’s Sonny Bill Williams option. A frustrated ARU told Cooper and his manager that he could have his boxing option when he learns to tackle. Gotcha!
It was clear to everyone involved with the contract negotiations that there was little good faith involved in their deals with Cooper and Nasser.
Cooper himself talked about wanting to play rugby league with his mate Sonny Bill. This is hardly the sort of talk any code wants to hear from one of its highest paid star players.
When Cooper finally got back on the field, he played adequately for the Reds and poorly for the Wallabies. Again, Deans was criticised for restoring him and retaining him in the starting line-up.
The frustrating negotiations between the ARU and the Cooper/Nasser pair continued.
Cooper played poorly for the Wallabies and, apparently, was criticised by the Wallaby coaching staff.
Now injured Cooper began a campaign to unseat the coach who had first promoted him into the Wallabies, who had stuck with him during the 2011 Rugby World Cup tournament and who had restored him to the Wallabies this year despite lacklustre form after a long time out of rugby because of a leg injury.
During his infamous interview Cooper bizarrely called the gold Wallaby jersey ‘yellow’ and said that the atmosphere in the Wallabies was so ‘toxic’ he couldn’t see himself playing again for the team with its current management.
This totally unacceptable behaviour forced the ARU to withdraw his contract. Cooper was fined and then offered a greatly reduced contract which relied on incentive payments from playing for the Wallabies to enhance the $400,000 contract he’d already signed with the Reds.
Now here is the crucial information that has not been revealed. Senior Wallabies (including Queensland players) informed the ARU they didn’t want Cooper back in the Wallabies squad.
The push to get the ARU to upgrade Cooper’s contract came from the officials at the Queensland Reds. And why? The SMH reported at the time: ‘Cooper’s supporters within the game believe the situation would change dramatically if Wallabies coach Robbie Deans were sacked and replaced by Reds coach, Ewen McKenzie, with whom he has a good relationship.’
Rugby politics now comes in to provide a conclusion of sorts to the unedifying saga.
Earlier this year the ARU commissioned a report into a new governance structure for ARU which is needed for the organisation to receive government money to finance the Sevens Rugby men and women’s programs, particularly, in the run-up to the Rio Olympics in 2016.
The structure recommended ends the veto power of the NSW and Queensland unions.
Masters and Smith hinted at the truth about how the politics of the new governance structure was used by the Reds officials to force the ARU to come to heel to stop the Cooper barking.
The Reds told the ARU it would not sign the new governance proposal until the ARU signed up Cooper. The chairman of the ARU, Michael Hawker, dealt with Nasser in a one-on-one negotiation.
Cooper was given every thing he wanted, including a boxing match in early February, and about $800,000 from the ARU and Reds.
The outcome was a total capitulation by the ARU, and a repudiation of the advice from senior Wallabies and senior officials at the ARU.
We now get to the stories last Saturday by Masters and Smith.
Masters reported that Israel Folau not only signed a deal with the Waratahs. He also was given a secret $400,000 top-up from the ARU. It was this top-up making Folau a $650,000 plus rugby player, rather than any weakness in the NRL negotiations, that tipped the player into the Waratahs camp.
And how did the Waratahs get the ARU to front up with the extra massive amount of money? By refusing to sign up to the new governance structure unless the ARU delivered Folau to the franchise. Anything the Reds can do, it seems, the Waratahs can emulate.
An important point needs to be made here. In 2008, the ARU was paying a Wallaby top-up to over 50 Super Rugby players. In the years since then it has been the policy of the ARU’s board to cut back on these top-ups (the money isn’t available to service them in the future).
There has been steady progress to putting players on incentive payments based on the number of Tests they played.
But this progress has now been slowed down, if not entirely stopped. For immediately after the Cooper final deal, managers of prominent Wallabies were in contact with the ARU looking to Cooper-ise their clients’ contracts.
In The Australian, Wayne Smith suggested that there is a growing belief in the ARU that Michael Cheika, rather than Ewen McKenzie, should take over as the Wallaby coach if Deans is forced out. There are concerns, Smith reports, that the Cooper/McKenzie push is being seen as part of an attempted Queensland takeover of the ARU.
Finally, here is a par from Danny Weidler’s sports gossip column in Sunday’s Sun-Herald that gives the flavour of the delusional Cooper/Nasser world:
“Quade Cooper is taking his boxing debut more seriously than he’d like anyone to know. He has been training three times a day for his February 8 debut. He finally got the respect he was after from the ARU. His deal will be worth close to $1 million a year.
“If the promises that Cooper has been made come true, his detractors at the ARU should be looking over their shoulders. It all points to Robbie Deans being shown the door.”
UPDATED: Response from Waratahs Rugby
Waratahs Rugby wishes to categorically confirm that there was no connection whatsoever between the signing of Israel Folau and the ARU’s Governance Review.
The NSW Rugby Union and Waratahs Rugby are completely separate entities. Under the licence agreement between NSWRU and Waratahs Rugby, NSWRU has no influence whatsoever on the recruitment, appointment or selection of the HSBC Waratahs team, its staff or players.
Whilst the ARU’s Governance Review reduced the votes given to NSWRU from five to three, these changes have no impact on Waratahs Rugby, who continue to receive one of these votes (in line with all five Australian Super Rugby teams).
Waratahs Rugby and NSW Rugby Union have written to The Roar to correct the factual inaccuracies contained in Mr Zavos’ article. As a well regarded and experienced rugby journalist, we believe The Roar readers would expect Mr Zavos’ articles to be factually correct and point out that, as with all journalists, he is always welcome to contact us for clarification on any matter should it be required. We look forward to hearing the thoughts of Mr Zavos and the rest of The Roar’s excellent panel of rugby writers as we approach an exciting season of Super Rugby and The Lions action in 2013.
Spiro Zavos’ response:
Waratahs Rugby and myself are at an disagreement here. Waratahs Rugby have refused to ask their chairman Roger Davis whether he and the chairman of the ARU, Michael Hawker, discussed the ARU’s Governance Review when negotiating an ARU salary top-up for Israel Folau.
I specifically asked Waratahs Rugby to put this question to Mr Davis and publish his reply. They refused to do so.
If there was ‘no connection whatsoever’ between the signing of Israel Folau and the ARU’s Governance Review, why wouldn’t Mr Davis confirm that this matter was NOT discussed during the Folau negotiations?
I would make one further point that goes to the heart of this issue. The ARU’s Governance Review, which required 75 per cent of members to vote it in, and which substantially reduced the voting power of the NSW Rugby Union on the ARU board, was voted in within something like 30 minutes. This is unprecedented for the implementation of governance reforms in the history of
the ARU. Victoria was the only dissenting rugby union.
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
Looking to join The Roar team? We're searching for an experienced Group Sales Manager to lead our team in Sydney. Yes, this does mean you get to work with the site all day long! If you're a digital media sales star, we want to hear from you. Apply now.
![]()
Passionate about your union? Then sign up to The Roar's brand new daily union email, delivering Roaring articles directly to you day-in, day-out. You'll love it!
Click here to join now!
- Explore:
- ARU, Israel Folau, Quade Cooper, Rugby Union, Sonny Bill Williams


December 10th 2012 @ 7:17am
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:17am | Report comment
this is another case of the ARU mismanaging its player roster. this is similar to the leagie era where sailor, tuqiri, rogers, walker were all brought over for big amounts. the amounts meant they had to be played in the wallaby’s to justify getting paid so much.
now coopers been pampered thru out his rugby career and its now not enough and he wants more, and more and more and more etc.
then he loses what little brains he has , tweets himself into trouble and still the ARU offers him a contract.
and now these rumours of the QRU and NSWRU dictating to the ARU. no wonder aus rugby is a mess. u have the tail wagging the dog.
wow cant see aus ever dominating the AB’s for the next 10 years if this keeps up. AWESOME
December 10th 2012 @ 7:49am
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
whats really funny is that quade is amongst the highest paid of all wallaby’s.
even funnier is the NSWRU saying they got folau for a deal with no top ups from ARU and yet its all BS.
how can u expect your players to act with honesty and honour when those in charge dont?
December 10th 2012 @ 12:13pm
Drop Kick said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Who knows what the deal is with Cooper?
There is so much spin coming from Cooper’s camp and the ARU are staying silent.
Jim Tucker in the Courier Mail said yesterday “Cooper said after re-signing for a revised deal which can earn him $800,000-plus next year if he plays all 14 Tests” which sounds like an incentive based contract which he had previously rejected as unaccaptable.
In other reports it sounds like he is getting a straight out $800,000 contract no matter how his poor (or good) his form is.
Ditto with Folau. Roy Masters says ARU top-up is $400,000 quoting no sources for his claim. Again the ARU says nothing.
Usually I think it is sensible the ARU refuse to divulge details of contracts, but in these two cases I think it would be sensible if they let the fans know what was going on.
December 10th 2012 @ 1:29pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Masters is ASSUMING the top up was the same as Tuqiri etc got, if you read his article carefully. No one has told him any amount. Just another league journo justifying anyone turning their back on NRL the dirtiest game of all.
December 10th 2012 @ 2:38pm
Drop Kick said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Yes agreed, that is why the ARU would be best off letting us know some details, otherise the spinners are/will have a field day with innuendo.
December 10th 2012 @ 4:09pm
Big Time said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
Wow, you people can always find a way to have a crack at the NRL. League are sitting back laughing at the whole situation.
Folau was a League winger, hardly a real player like Thurston, Cronk, Smith or Slater. Most recently he has been an unsuccessful AFL player. Unlike Union, League has again proved they will not let blokes like this hold them to ransom. Folau will take a pay cut and come back to League, they all do eventually.
Cooper is what keeps Union in the papers, you need him, otherwise there will be nothing to write about.
December 10th 2012 @ 4:48pm
ThomasCrown said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Big time 100% agreed. Folau will be back to the NRL with his tail betweeen his legs like the rest of them.
December 10th 2012 @ 5:13pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
Tuqiri and Sailor were SACKED.
Yes NRL took the drug taker Sailor back, kudos for that.
Rogers was the only one who turned down an existing contract.
Thorn went back BUT then left the NRL again and will finish in Rugby. Same with SBW.
Blacklock, Tahu etc just were not good enough to cut it so they went back to the simple game they could handle.
December 12th 2012 @ 2:09pm
Damn Straight said | December 12th 2012 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Yeah right, rugby union is so much more complex and difficult to master than rugby league? You are delusional.
December 10th 2012 @ 2:12pm
Harry said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
Fully agree.
December 10th 2012 @ 1:06pm
BetterRedThanDead said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
QC needs to be handled with care and I think that the reason that the ARU struggled with both him and JOC is that they are not managing the generational shift in the player base. The ‘me’ generation, complete with its sense of entitlement, general lack of respect for authority, willingness to share views to a wide audience without forethought… These features set apart Gen Y from Gen X. This is a reality, however some of these Gen Y’ers are also highly skilled (amazingly!) and have significant contributions to make – and with the proper management this is eminently acheivable. I recall that the rugby establishment also struggled with the ego and mouth of one David Campese also. And as he has discovered blogging, and Twitter, they continue to.
However, as we have witnessed, when institutionalised arrogance meets monumental ego, the results can be explosive.
December 11th 2012 @ 8:44pm
Malo said | December 11th 2012 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
he is already wrapped up in cotton wool, maybe we should build specially modified training facilities to satisfy QC. Have a cheer leading squad awaitin him as he gets off the plane and go to his 5 star hotels. Does he think he is Beckham or a Messi. WTF
December 10th 2012 @ 1:27pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Walker was never paid that much. He easily earned his stripes.
December 10th 2012 @ 5:55pm
Minz said | December 10th 2012 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
I loved to watch Walker play… if only he’d done more of it
December 10th 2012 @ 7:48pm
sledgeandhammer said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:48pm | Report comment
and Walker was a rugby player who defected to league, not the other way around. He just came back to rugby eventually.
December 15th 2012 @ 5:32pm
Malo said | December 15th 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Exactly he played unreal for Randwick. Randwick was a great nursery for wallabies who learnt from new creative players and old heads as well as experience. Removing or distancing clubs like these from international rugby is what is causing real problems. I still remember when the All Blacks played Randwick at Coogee oval in 1988 awesome game.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:12pm
Hightackle said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Bwaaahahahaaaa!
The ARU dont even want Cooper but have been FORCED!
Seriously though, this is bad news for Australian rugby. I cant see the Wallabies or Aust rugby doing well with this sort of stuff happening.
December 11th 2012 @ 10:19am
R said | December 11th 2012 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Even if this was half true it would illustrate very poor management.
Didn’t Hawker use to run an Insurance Coy which bought everthing and then floundered under poor management.
What a mess O’Neill and Hawker have left Aussie rugby in!!!
December 11th 2012 @ 11:21pm
Hightackle said | December 11th 2012 @ 11:21pm | Report comment
QANTAS is from QLD.
Nucifora is from QLD.
McGaghn is from QLD.
Graham is from QLD.
Cooper, Genia, Shipperly, Harris, Higgs, Gill, Ioane, A.Faingaa, S.Faingaa, Slipper, Morahan, Tapuai, Horwill and Simmons play for the Reds.
Yeah they are soo afraid of QLD and completely bias against them.
P…FFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!!!
December 10th 2012 @ 7:32am
Johnno said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
NSW have always had the power in Aussy rugby, or should i say sydney-centric has always controlled aussy rugby. Just ask knuckles connolly not getting the job in favour of George Smith in 1996, when it was obvious knuckles was the best candidate at the time.
December 10th 2012 @ 7:54am
mark said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
so George Smith coached the wallabies when still in school and later went on to be a wallaby great? cool
Greg Smith mate
it wasn’t that obvious and Connoly eneded up leading a very good wallaby side to a QF failure at 2007 RWC. On a bright sunny day in the south of france he had us playing wet weather rugby for a reason he is yet to explain.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:10am
formeropenside said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
wasn’t obvious? Connolly had just won back to back super rugby titles, both being away finals in South Africa. What NSW coach has ever done that?
December 10th 2012 @ 9:40am
Ryan said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
No Australian Coach has won back to back Super Rugby tiles FOS unless your omitting the titles won by the Blues and Crusaders inbetween the Brumbies two titles. I
f so this is still not back to back titles as can be seen other teams won titles between the Brumbies successes.
The correct statement would have been Conolly had won two SR titles preceding the WC in 2007
December 10th 2012 @ 9:47am
Markus said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
The Reds won the Super 10 competition back to back in 1994 and 95, then were minor premiers in the first Super 12 in 1996. That record should have had Knuckles hands down the top choice for the Wallabies job in 1996.
You’re either being deliberately facetious or had absolutely no idea this even occurred.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:07am
bill said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
testify markus
ryan is clearly from sydney – Spiro – to claim that cheika should be Wallabies coach show’s how one sided and sydney centric this article is, J White would be second in line at least.
And all this revisionist history in the article – Quade did deliver a Super Rugby Title on his current contract. You only need to have been a reds support for the last 10 years to know that 30 000 + people a week at Suncorp is this currents reds side delivering on their contracts – 5 years ago 12 000 was a big crowd. Rugby has never been stronger in QLD and its because of McKenzie, Genia, and Quade – if the ARU wants the Wallabies to be strong they should follow suit.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:10am
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:10am | Report comment
TBF to ryan I believe he is from NZ and genuinely didnt know FOS was referring to pre-professional era super rugby.
December 10th 2012 @ 1:34pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
nor who the brumbies coaches were when they won the titles.
December 10th 2012 @ 5:30pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | December 10th 2012 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
bill… Spiro did not give an endorsement for Cheika to be Wallabies coach in this article. He did not even suggest that Cheika should be chosen ahead of McKenzie. As far as this column is concerned, he did not offer an opinion as to whom should be coach.
All you Queenslanders can stop with the victim complex. It’s embarrassing.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:16pm
Hightackle said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:16pm | Report comment
When are people gonna learn that the team wins the title NOT THE DAMN COACH.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:33pm
Hightackle said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:33pm | Report comment
35-40 players used on a super season by any one team and the credit goes to none of them.
SERIOUSLY! THE COACH DOES NOT WIN THE TITLES.
Put the “great” G.Henry in charge of Namibia and do you think they will win a WC or win 85% of their games?
FFS its the TEAM not the coach. How do people not get that? Its so obvious anf demonstrated time after time. For example, Hansen is a great coach right? With Wales he helped win 35% not 90% or whatever it is with NZ. McKenzie was sacked by his last 2 clubs for poor results but now with Reds he wins a title. How does this happen? BECUZ ITS THE F@(KING TEAM NOT THE DAMN COACH. To say that any coach deserves a role becuz HIS TEAM won a title is completely wrong. Its the team that deserves the credit and the coach may have actually been a negative influence compared to another.
We dont yhink the hooker, prop, fullback or wing are the best based on a title win but for some weird reason we think the coach is.
France made the WC final and admitted that they were coaching themselves for half of the WC.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:43pm
Hightackle said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:43pm | Report comment
When Namibia, Fiji, Romania or Portugal start winning WCs, I will start thinking that the coach is the person responsible. Until then I think we will see the big teams with the best players winning like NZ, SA, Aust, Fra and Eng winning.
Just a theory…backed up with 7 WCs, rankings, results and much more.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:02pm
Hightackle said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
G.Henry, everybody in NZ seems to think the sun shines from where the sun dont shine with that guy. This year he assisted Arg. Everybody was saying “you can se G.Henrys influence” during their draw against SA etc. They didnt say it when Arg fell to a record home loss to NZ or when Ire and Fra put a record score on them.
They had the worst defence of any top 10 team in 2012 and only scored 1 try per game on ave.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:05pm
Lippy said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:05pm | Report comment
Why do reds fans always bring up pre 96.
Super Rugby as it is known officially began in 1996
December 10th 2012 @ 1:32pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
If sydney centric has always controlled Aus rugby then why has a Qld coach EVER coached the WALLABIES? Why did Connelly get the job after Eddie Jones.
December 10th 2012 @ 2:42pm
Markus said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Because then-Waratahs coach Ewen McKenzie chose not to apply, despite everybody in the ARU wishing he had.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:04pm
Wally James said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
There have only been two Queensland coaches of a Wallaby side. Two – can you believe that? Templeton and Connolly.
Both times no New South Welshman stood against them. That is how Queenslanders get the job. Each and every time a New South Welshman has stood against a Queenslander, the Queenslander has lost.
In other words, if a New South Welshman wanted the job he got it (unless he was standing against another New South Welshman – as happened to Dwyer when Jones got the job). If a Queenslander wants it he has to hope a New South Welshman doesn’t want it.
Let’s hope the new governance gets rid of this insiduous New South Welsh bias.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:15pm
Jiggles said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
The Irony is that Link isn’t even a Queenslander. He is a Victorian who played for NSW and has coached both NSW and QLD and been assistant coach for the Wallabies under Rod.
I really don’t understand how they can be so paranoid about “Reds under the Bed” like they were with Templeton in the 80s and Connolly in 1996, when Link has clearly shown he doesn’t have any allegiance to any State or Union.
I agree that the sooner the reform of the ARU gets pushed through, where all unions are equal, the better. The NSWRU is the cancer on Australian Rugby and has been for years.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:23pm
Uncle Argyle said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
Alan Jones is also a Queenslander. Born and raised on the Darling Downs. My information is that Bob Templeton got the Wallaby job for the 1981/82 tour of Great Britain and Ireland he did get it unopposed as the NSW candidate Peter Crittle withdrew from availability for personal reasons. Crittle would have been a good Wallaby coach as he had proven success with Sydney and NSW yet we never will really know if he would have got the job over Tempo – but Tempo appear to have done a ‘Bradbury’ to get the job on that occasion.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:38pm
Jiggles said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
Thats true. Connolly did a Bradbury after Jones in 2005. No one wanted the job, Connolly finally got his chance to coach the Wallabies and I suppose the ARU saw it as a ‘sorry’ to make up for 1996 although he had very little support trying to make the changes that were needed to the Wallabies pack.
December 11th 2012 @ 6:33am
Wally James said | December 11th 2012 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Quite so Uncle. It is not as straight forward as I suggested when it comes to Jones.
He also taught at Brisbane Grammar and Downlands as I recall. However by the time he was appointed he was part of the NSW clique having coached Manly to a premiership the season before. Notwithstanding it must be conceded he was a Queenslander.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:45pm
Uncle Argyle said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:45pm | Report comment
Then O’Neill worked the shadows to get him ousted. I thought ‘Knuckles’ deserved a much better run at it than he got. Sure RWC 2007 was a kick in the guts – but I reckon it was a done deal as O’Neill and Deans were well in talks at the RWC – Dead man walking was Connolly.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:52pm
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
I thought knuckles already indicated prior to the WC that he would step down after the tournament. And I also though deans threw his hat in the ring only after he wasnt given the AB’s job?
But your right about knuckles not getting much of a fair go, 2 years to turn around the mess jones had left the team in was always going to be a tough task however he didnt do himself much favours by sticking with alot of the deadwood from the jones era that should have been given the boot.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:57pm
Jiggles said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
I think Connolly actually did a pretty good job and he tried anything and everything to get the pack right for that world cup. It didn’t help that Greg Holmes was injured in the Canada game as he was a far superior LHP to Dunning who got smashed by Vickery.
I also find it amazing that Wallabies ‘hardmen’ like Vickerman, Palu and Elsom, and a good player like Moore escaped with absolutely no criticism after that 07 RWC defeat to England. Those 4 players, along with Sharpe, put up the white flag when the going got tough in that game.
You can say what you like about Knuckles, but every team he has coached end up with a fantastic pack and I think he was getting there with Australia. If he had been given half the latitude that Deans has been given I think he would’ve got there.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:58pm
Uncle Argyle said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
Hi Justie,
my information is that the Connolly – O’Neill relationship was a turbulent and fractured one. Its rumoured O’Neill had little control of Connolly that did not suit him. Its my understanding Connolly – who also is a polarising figure saw the writing on the wall and walked. It is also my understanding O’Neill was told he was leaving the ARU but was allowed to walk out and the whole nature of his departure was hidden in the shadows.
Deans went with the ARU after missing out with the All Blacks. Yet that ARU seed was planted long before according to my sources. Pretty sure O’Neill and Deans were photographed together in Paris…..brushing up their French? No my information is that O’Neill worked his contacts very well to dismantle Gary Flowers and then John Connolly. I could be wrong but that’s what I hear from credible sources.
December 10th 2012 @ 4:08pm
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
Cool thanks for the info UA, I was a 23 Y.O. on a working holiday visa in the UK during 2007 so my memory of that period is quite hazy
December 10th 2012 @ 4:22pm
Uncle Argyle said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:22pm | Report comment
Justie – at 23 I was living in Ireland – playing rugby – my diet consisted of Guinness and Abra-kebabra – can I report at 33 it was not much different
December 10th 2012 @ 4:41pm
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
Lol my diet was kronenbergs and fried chicken wings with chilli sauce.
The only downside of living in london in 2007 was losing to england in that QF, maybe thats why Im not a big fan of knuckles, I hold him responsible for the amount taunting and insults I copped!
December 10th 2012 @ 5:26pm
Wispy said | December 10th 2012 @ 5:26pm | Report comment
Having been in the middle of it on the inside…Uncle Argle is spot on with his intelligence!
December 10th 2012 @ 3:31pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
Clearly wrong.
DES CONNOR (1968-71) was the Wallaby coach before Templeton, he was a Qlder.
December 10th 2012 @ 4:36pm
Jiggles said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:36pm | Report comment
Nah Des Connor is a Kiwi….
December 10th 2012 @ 5:15pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
born in Qld
December 10th 2012 @ 6:55pm
sheek said | December 10th 2012 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
Des Connor (b. 1935) was a true blue Aussie born in Qld. Played 12 tests for the Wallabies 1957-59.
When it became obvious the selectors were going to prefer young gun Ken Catchpole (b.1939) in 1961, Connor took off across the ditch where he played another 12 tests for the All Blacks 1962-64.
Connor then returned to Australia to coach the Wallabies 1968-71. In 1968, he incurred the wrath of the Kiwis by introducing short lineouts, which was considered a breathtaking innovation back then.
December 10th 2012 @ 7:35am
biltongbek said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
If I was Deans I would pack my bags and send the ARU an email from back home.
We may have problems in our administration, but no player has this amount of influence in our rugby.
I thought this was a team sport.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:15am
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:15am | Report comment
agree fully biltongbek , just another indication of why aus rugby is as bad as it is. no single player would get away with this kind behaviour and remain on the books in most rugby countries. i thought if a union were to bend over backwards like this it would be for a much better player.
quades brilliant sometimes but pretty woeful most times. cant believe people singing his praises so much
December 10th 2012 @ 12:52pm
strupper2003 said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
u r absolutely right. no player should hv this amount of influence in a team sport. i dont care if the player is from qld or nsw.
December 10th 2012 @ 1:35pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
If ONLY Deans would fall on his sword, that would be wonderful.
Deans though wants to keep receiving his paycheck.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:55pm
biltongbek said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:55pm | Report comment
Well you might just get your wish.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:41pm
Ra said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:41pm | Report comment
and the players who just toured with him, love the guy, eh PeterK but all you stupid ozzies salavate over another little kiwi boy who just ripped you off for $800 000 without even pulling on a green n gold – should yourselves a VB you lot
I hope Deano does go now, if a guy who slings off at his buddies on tour can pull in that sort of money, then Deans should be worth triple that in pay outs. He’s still well loved back home and Kiwi Roarers would like nothing better than to see him come back and stick it to your SR teams.
Amazing that none of the “toxic tourist” have come out in support of the outspoken side-stepper??? And dont tell me any rubbish about signing contracts of silence. If that was true, then one player should be paying $800 000, not receiving it.
I asked the question before;and here it is again: how come the guy who hasn’t stepped on the paddock gets more “hits” in The Roar than the brave guys who guts it out and did a great against the odds job on tour?
You guys have strange ways of supporting your heroes.
December 11th 2012 @ 12:06am
PeterK said | December 11th 2012 @ 12:06am | Report comment
RA you have no credibility as a r_a_c_i_s_t specifically against QC.
December 11th 2012 @ 11:05am
Rob from Brumby Country said | December 11th 2012 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Yeah, I can’t understand it either, Ra.
Given all the $hit that people said about our touring party, you’d think they’d be over the moon that we managed to come away with three wins from four matches. But no, they have to focus on the negatives: the for-and-againsts, the lack of tries, the style of gameplay…
It seems to me that Australian rugby fans have no backbone. If they did, they would back their team up in times of difficulty and even embarrassment. It’s no wonder the Wallabies can’t perform on a consistent basis when their own supporter base is reactionary and cynical. How could anybody perform consistently when the people they rely on for support have wild mood swings between euphoria, vituperation, and catatonia?
I guess what I’m saying to the average supporter of the Wallabies is this: it’s not them, it’s you.
December 11th 2012 @ 3:15pm
PeterK said | December 11th 2012 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
then explain how AB supporters are not satisified with just winning? Nor their coaches or the NZRU.
They are expected to win, AND to play well. If they play poorly but win then that is not considered good enough.
The striving for continual improvement.
If the Wallabies want to be no 1 they need to take a leaf from the AB’s book in regards to this.
December 11th 2012 @ 7:48pm
Hightackle said | December 11th 2012 @ 7:48pm | Report comment
PeterK. No the ABs are not just happy with winning altough they were against Fra in the WC final.
If NZ were to lose Carter, Cruden, Dagg, Read, McCaw, Messam, Woodcok, Kepu, Nonu, Jane, C.Smith, A.Smith, Whitelock, O.Franks, Romano and B.Smith for large parts of the season or the entire season they might be. Yet when Aust loses Mitchell, McCabe, Barnes, Beale, Genia, Pocock, Horwill, Kepu, Palu, JOC, Cooper, AAC, Alexander, Lealiifano, Timani, McCalman, Higgs, Simmons and many others you expect see razzle dazzle rugby.
Umm NO CHANCE.
December 13th 2012 @ 1:03am
stillmatic1 said | December 13th 2012 @ 1:03am | Report comment
amen to that peterK. the striving for continual improvement is what makes good teams, great, and great teams stay there. doesnt mean they wont have howlers, simply means that a “win” should not gloss over the imperfections.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:49pm
WQ said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
You are on the money biltongbek Deans is being dragged down every day that he remains in this ‘toxic’ environment!
December 10th 2012 @ 7:37am
B-Rock said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:37am | Report comment
If true, this QC deal is an unmitigated disaster. Folau is overpaid at $650K but has done none of the damage QC has done to the sport over the past year.
Spiro – the key on field issue is the players reaction which you allude to but don’t elaborate on – as I would suspect, some of the hard working players which have kept their heads down and toiled away for the ‘yellow jersey’ would be livid at QC. He questioned selections during his toxic interview and is now being paid far more than most of them.
Unless his form improves rapidly back to where it was at his peak, this will be an incredible waste of money and detrimental to team harmony/morale
December 10th 2012 @ 7:51am
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:51am | Report comment
totally agree b-rock and the basic fact is ARU are giving the message, be an unruly petulant child and u can hold the ARU and ransom…and win. awesome, another decade of the AB’s holding onto the bledisloe.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:57am
Blue Blood said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:57am | Report comment
There would only be a handful of Wallabies paid over $500k. The vast majority of honest, hard working Wallabies get around $200k from their Super clubs and around $150k from the ARU. How can the ARU justify any of this with a straight face?
The ARU created this mess by giving so much power to NSW and QLD in he first place. How can the other states have an even playing field all these years with 1 vote for the 3 of the two power states? All decisions favour the two and the funding floods towards the power and directly out if the pockets of the others.
All of community rugby in WA last year got $250k to develop and promote rugby in this massive state. Cooper’s top up alone is nearly double what WA gets.
The message is clear. Two men are bigger than the game and this is not a team sport any more. If their team mates welcome them in after this BS then they are no better than their corrupt management. The crowds should shun these players not celebrate their talents. You want to know why rugby tickets are so expensive to normal families? Just read this article.
Well put together article articulating what we have been saying since day one of this Cooper fiasco.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:45am
Mantis said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:45am | Report comment
You’re right. The favoritism NSW and QLD get over the other 3 super rugby sides is ridiculous.
December 11th 2012 @ 5:05pm
formeropenside said | December 11th 2012 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
because th ARU grew out of the NSWRU and QRU, basically.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:09am
bill said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
B-Rock – what damage has he done to teh sport? he’s got massvie crowds showing up at suncorp week in week out – Spiro can claim what he wants about the way quade played but the team lifted when he came back and we went to the finals (again). The Reds out drawing the Bronco’s in Brisbane shows that quade is worth every cent.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:33am
Justin2 said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Bill – agree somewhat. More harm is being done to the sport with the dreadful football the Wallabies are playing than anything Cooper has said.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:56pm
Ra said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:56pm | Report comment
your guys just come home from winning three games out of four on a toxic tour Justin. Have been down and told them personally how disappointed you are with that result. And while you’re at it, could you tell Bill to check the Queensland crowds again next season, not last season. There will be 800 000 embarrassing reasons why Queenslanders will stay away, and Im expecting they will suffer their most humiliating defeat ever at the hands of NSW next year, thanks to Deans – want a chocolate fish bet on that one????
December 11th 2012 @ 6:26am
Justin2 said | December 11th 2012 @ 6:26am | Report comment
December 11th 2012 @ 6:58am
Justin2 said | December 11th 2012 @ 6:58am | Report comment
So you think they have been playing good football do you? I bet if you asked the players how they felt, they’d be relieved more than anything. They would know they got away with some ordinary football.
Thumped by France, played ok to beat a naive England and then scraped to wins over the 9th and 10th sides in the world.
Crack the champers Ra, all is right with the world. The tour was a pass, no more.
December 11th 2012 @ 8:29pm
Hightackle said | December 11th 2012 @ 8:29pm | Report comment
Deans was on the grassy knoll wasnt he Justin.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:47am
Mantis said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
‘he’s got massive crowds turning up at suncorp week in week out’ – thats a slap in the face to the rest of the side…
December 10th 2012 @ 3:58pm
biltongbek said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
Agree, but according to some wehave established the Reds and Wallabies only require THE ONE, the rest are only there to make up the numbers.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:04pm
GWS said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:04pm | Report comment
Well they ain’t turning up for the scrum resets
December 10th 2012 @ 10:49am
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:49am | Report comment
bill – so dont the crowds turn up to watch anyone else? isnt digby and genia in that team?
December 10th 2012 @ 12:22pm
Comrade Bear said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
The forwards, Genia allow Cooper to operate – put Digby through gaps etc – thats how rugby and the respective positions work??
December 10th 2012 @ 10:58am
linz22 said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Could not agree more, the whole cooper fiasco is nothing compared to the damage the current wallaby playing style is doing. And yes, Quade has made a right mess of everything, but i have a lot of league friends who have actually started watching the reds because of cooper and you cant say that about many other wallabies at the moment. Though i think all the league supporters he attracts are being reminded why they prefer League every time they see a wallabies game.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:12am
linz22 said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:12am | Report comment
nitpicking guys, you are choosing to interpret his comments that way. Quade is a massive crowd drawer, but that is not to say that Genia and others aren’t as well.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:32pm
Malo said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
For how long. RIP Australian Rugby Union. You are soft jokes. Di d you consider that you signed Australias most pathetic World Cup performer ever to put on a Wallaby jersey to such a sum. He now is an automatic pick for the wallabies. If the wallabies and QC don’t fire the crowds will no longer pay $150 for a ticket. Israel Folau may be the resurrection time will tell. Precarious times. Just think how much Mark Ella , Tim Horan or Willie O would command now, they would eat these gen y s alive.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:20am
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
linz22 – nitpicking how? several bloggers saying ppl are turnin up to solely watch quade. i’d prefer to go watch genia and digby than quade. in fact i’d quite happily not go to any games involving quade but as this isnt an individual sport then thats hard to achieve without skipping a lot of rugby i do want to see
December 10th 2012 @ 11:33am
linz22 said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:33am | Report comment
You used the word “solely” Mania, Bill never did. In fact he says “The Reds out drawing the Bronco’s” not Quade outdrawing the broncos, which is how you seem to have decided to interpret his comments. and we are talking about Suncorp crowds here, not whether you want to watch Quade. personally i have seen the worst and best of cooper and am a bigger fan of Genia, but Quade has played very well for the reds and does draw a lot of people.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:39am
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:39am | Report comment
linz22 – yes sorry, my bad but now your nitpicking . no mention of any other player in bills blog and when a line like ” he’s got massvie crowds showing up at suncorp week in week out” then that is inferring a one man show and also lines like “but the team lifted when he came back and we went to the finals” makes it sound like QLD cannot play or win anything without quade.
linz22 your distracted from the overall argument to pick at a single word.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:11pm
linz22 said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Fair enough, needless to say that what was stated can be interpreted in a couple of directions, but i think the overall argument that Quade is a big crowed drawer is accurate. Whether you judge him based on his stupid off field antics or inconstant on field performances, there is large proportion of reds fans who turn on the TV or buy tickets in the hope of seeing some Quade cooper magic. I just wish he would pull his head in, keep his mouth shut, delete his twitter account and focus on becoming a more consistent all round player. He has the ability to be great, though could do with some of Larken’s brains, and that is why the ARU have re signed him.
They should have made deleting his twitter account a part of the contract, for everybody’s sake.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:18pm
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
linz22 – i just dont see the attraction of quade. as a coach i’ve come across players like this and have had to let them go. no single player is as big as the team. as good as quade is (and he’s not even that good) he’s nothing without his 14 other team mates yet quades on the pedestal getting paid the most. he’s not even a forward ffs.
i dont buy it that its quade thats putting all the bums on seats. i reckon he’d be responsible for a small fraction of a percent but it’d be sweet f all. i’m sure rugby fans are clued up as to what constitutes a good player worth watching and quade doesnt come close.
i think aus should be ashamed of the fact that this is your best 1st5 and that the ARU is willing to pander shamefully to his ego. all this money wasted and yet the grassroots of australian rugby for yet another year goes begging. awesome priorities aus
December 10th 2012 @ 12:40pm
linz22 said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
i agree that he does not deserve the contract he has received, never said otherwise. He has generally played very poorly for aus and deserves a contract more commensurate to his wallabies performances. However, i do believe he puts a lot of bums on Suncorp seats and can therefor understand why the reds have fought to keep him in the code.
Also, if your a Digby fan, perhaps you should watch some Digby highlights, its Cooper that puts him through most of his holes, and consider how he plays when copper is not on the field.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:44pm
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
overly simplified linz22. digby contributes so much more to the team positively than quade does.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:55pm
linz22 said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Agreed, he has a great influence and never stops running hard but he isn’t half as effective when Quade is out. Just my opinion, though i think if you looked up the stats you would see a dramatic decrease in Digby line breaks and tries when Cooper is not on the field, and i agree with bill in that the reds did seem to lift when cooper returned this year. Its just a pity he does not have the same influence on the wallabies.
December 10th 2012 @ 1:42pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
mania – No doubt the Reds play more attractive and better attacking rugby with QC than without. Look at stats like tries, linebreaks, and win / loss with and without QC.
The best way to judge the difference is when he does not play how they go, and even with the other stars like Genia and Ioane they lose more without QC. He obviously makes a big difference.
December 10th 2012 @ 7:44am
nickoldschool said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
A very insightful article Spiro.
Australian rugby seems like a banana republic, with the ARU at its top, giving top ups to some, nothing to others, based on reputations and politics. To have the ARU oligarchs offering a top up to a guy who has played a few rugby games as a teen (Folau) is a disgrace. I want Folau to succeed in union with the tahs and wallabies but also want this success to be based on results rather than reputation or negociation skills.
Like in every corrupt socitey or organisation, the dice are loaded; it all happens beforehand, behind closed doors, rather than on the field or after matches. The core values of rugby, honesty, mateship, transparency and fairness, are being ridiculed.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:32am
Red Kev said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
You call this insightful? This “article” is scurrilous gossip and makes Danny Weidler look like a Pulitzer Prize winner.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:48am
nickoldschool said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:48am | Report comment
RK, the amounts mentioned might be exaggerated, i dont know and dont care tbh. in my mind, its all about principles. If you have read Masters piece on the smh, we know for sure that the aru offered a top up to Folau to convinve him to sign with the tahs:
“The Waratahs chief executive, Jason Allen, said: ”The ARU have definitely assisted us but don’t declare the amount with us. It’s their choice to talk about salaries.”
I think the oz public has been deceived. Of course Weidler, Spiro and others tend to exaggerate or anitcipate situations/numbers at times. Yet, the whole QC/ARU saga, the NRL/ARU/Folau one, JOC being quickly forgiven after not turning up at the wallabies presentation etc, did happen and arent open to interpretation. I stick to what i said about the ARU being run like a banana republic.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:27am
WOLF said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Unacceptable post removed. Thanks, Roar mods.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:42am
Markus said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Any bias RK may have is irrelevant.
The premise of this piece is that Spiro has heard two different rumours from two different sources, that both not only somehow manage to confirm the other, but prove the existence of an overall ARU conspiracy.
It’s hardly Pulitzer Prize winning journalism.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:31am
Mals said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Red Kev & FOS are the two Ronnies of QLD rugby
Btw Steve Kefu was a gun player – should have had more Wallaby caps
December 10th 2012 @ 10:43am
Red Kev said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:43am | Report comment
I like to think of myself as Gareth Hale to his Norman Pace but I guess I can take Ronnie Barker as a compliment.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:30pm
formeropenside said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Mals, whatever my faults to your southern eyes, I never talked up Steve Kefu. I mean, he was an adequate Super Rugby 12, but that was about it.
You would have also not seen me talking up Va’aulu or Henari Veratau. Or Guy Shepherdson over the last two years, or Jack Kennedy before that – and they all had Reds contracts.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:31pm
Uncle Argyle said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
Cameron Trelor, Tom Court, Caleb Brown, Ben Wakerly perhaps? Brandon Va’aulu was affectionately known as Brando Calrisean as he actually did look a touch similar to the Mayor of Bespin City from the Empire Strikes Back flick.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:50pm
Jiggles said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
Wasn’t Brown a disappointment. He had so much potential.
December 10th 2012 @ 4:05pm
Uncle Argyle said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:05pm | Report comment
Caleb Brown was a stand out at times in an average era of Queensland rugby. There were a number of good players in that team but it just didn’t gell.
December 10th 2012 @ 4:14pm
falcore said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
I’ve been run over by steve kefu, will happily talk him up…
December 10th 2012 @ 4:25pm
Uncle Argyle said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
Falcore,
Ive got a mate who had a fight with Mike Teague. According to my mate he was doing OK until Mike realised he was actually being hit, about 30 seconds into my mates flurry of hay makers, then it all went pretty south from there.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:08am
post said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
As an outsider to all the interstate rivalries going on, red kev seems a lot more realistic than the bunches of nsw-centric bs I see from spiro, lord, and some commenters here. Particularly when articles like this refer to cheika as the new favorite over Link to replace Deans it loses all credibility.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:13am
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Spiro was just quoting wayne smith in the aus regarding chieka
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/push-for-cheika-to-leapfrog-mckenzie/story-e6frg7o6-1226532504538
December 10th 2012 @ 2:12pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
Jutsie stop putting your facts in the way of a good whinge!
December 10th 2012 @ 4:23pm
post said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
I realize that, but the overall message of the article appears to support this line of thinking while dumping on anything relating to the reds, including a coaching appointment of Link. The reds are clearly the superior Australian side of the last two years, yet I get the impression that the ARU would resist additional queenslanders in the rank because they are queenslanders. This is an ongoing message in articles by both lord and zavos, and is totally ridiculous.
December 10th 2012 @ 7:46pm
Halleys Comet said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
Sorry Wolfy, you have just been voted out out, RK is only telling it like it is..
December 10th 2012 @ 11:14am
Dan said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
It’s always a good idea to read articles about players you have a heavy bias for with more than just one eye…
December 10th 2012 @ 1:17pm
Handles said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Agree RK, and what’s more it also contains a typical Spiro invention:
“When Cooper finally got back on the field, he played adequately for the Reds and poorly for the Wallabies. Again, Deans was criticised for restoring him and retaining him in the starting line-up.”
Deans was criticised for NOT restoring him in the first game, atr home, despite excellent form in the Reds games. He was then UNABLE to retain him, as he was re-injured in his second test match back.
December 10th 2012 @ 2:35pm
Uncle Argyle said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
Did you know Roy Masters actually lives in Melbourne.
December 10th 2012 @ 5:39pm
Ben said | December 10th 2012 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
100% right kev. This article is gossip and conspiracy theories.
December 10th 2012 @ 1:46pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
NEVER has Aus rugby been transparent and fair, so how it can be a core value is beyond me.
The elite have always ruled the boards and they have always made self interest decisions.
That said there is no proof to Spiros gossip.
At best the only factual statements can be made are that Folau DID get some top up, and QC’s contract was revised, (not how much was left as incentive, or the contract sizes).
December 11th 2012 @ 12:08am
Malo said | December 11th 2012 @ 12:08am | Report comment
Agree great article Spiro and agree with nickold school. I am a converted All Blacks supporter as they have pride and integrity in the jersey I hope they smash the wallabies especially QC, JOC and Beale who have shown contempt for the jersey. I will see what Gen Zs are like may come back to the wallabies then. I will definitely not go to pay for a wallaby ticket again. I have previously supported the wallabies at two world cups and been to about 30 test matches.
December 10th 2012 @ 7:45am
Sailosi said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:45am | Report comment
This is the ridiculous situation that a moronic central contracting system creates. Players should only be contracted to franchises and paid a match fee when representing Australia.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:12pm
Stripes said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Then watch all our best players head over for greater security and money.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:19pm
Markus said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
There is already greater security (lower risk of injuries in lower quality comps) and much much better money available elsewhere for our best players, and even for our average players.
Packing up and moving your life elsewhere is just not something everyone can do.
Take Ioane for example. There was big talk last contract of moving to Japan, but the guy was so homesick in Perth they released him to QLD, so I severely doubt he’d have been able to manage in a foreign country.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:32pm
formeropenside said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
They did not release him, he signed with the Reds. They were pretty unhappy about it, since he verbally said he would stay West, but could do nothing about it (since they poached him in the first place).
December 10th 2012 @ 4:31pm
sittingbison said | December 10th 2012 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
thats BS FOS and you know it. The Force released him from final year of his contract
December 11th 2012 @ 3:31pm
formeropenside said | December 11th 2012 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
No, my honest recollection is that the Force wanted to keep him, thinking he had signed, but he had not in fact signed, merely said he would (and did not).
Sharp practice sure, but after the 2005 raids the Force could hardly complain.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:49pm
Comrade Bear said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
So what is the point of a Salary Cap? The ARU top up system totally circumvents it? I just don’t get it – what am I missing?
I would have thought the ARU would give each state the same amount of money to allocate to their ‘best’ players to keep them. Done.
With Match payments being just that …
December 10th 2012 @ 1:53pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
how the salary cap is supposed to work is a player negotiated with the various states / franchises how much they will pay him.
THEN regardless of which franchise they go to the ARU negotiates what they think he is worth to them to retain him.
Cooper negotiated a good contract with Qld, Folau with NSW. If they had been with other states the ARU would not have cared but offered the same top up, in theory.
That all said I totally disagree with a salary cap when it is only on the aus sides.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:54pm
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
yes it is such a silly concept that 5 teams out of a 15 side completion have to not only deal with restrictions on foreign players but also the salary cap.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:35pm
Jerry said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
The NZ sides effectively have a salary cap too though – they’re dependent on the NZRU providing the funds for player salaries and every team gets the same amount.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:54pm
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:54pm | Report comment
I didn’t realise that, thanks for the info. Its probably a bit better then but I still think it should be across the board rule or not implemented at all.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:44pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:44pm | Report comment
So the NZ franchises pay exactly the same for player salaries? They are not allowed to contribute anything above and beyond what the NZRU supplies or obtain 3rd party payments for players?
December 11th 2012 @ 5:02am
Jerry said | December 11th 2012 @ 5:02am | Report comment
I don’t think there’s any 3rd party payments, or certainly nothing significant.
They’re all given the same amount for player salaries, yeah. I believe all the franchises account for their entire wage bill except the Highlanders who’ve had a fair bit to spare in recent years (as they’ve usually had a bunch of young, unproven players – they’ll probably use the entire amount what with Jamie Joseph’s successful recruiting tactics).
December 11th 2012 @ 9:54am
Blue Blood said | December 11th 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Agreed. It would also stop some teams having all the Wallabies and others having few. If the real money was in the hands of the clubs do you really think the Reds and Tahs would be able to afford so many Wallabies? This would lead to a far more even distribution of talent across all Aust Super clubs and even up our competition. It would be better for crowds and remove the QLD and NSW dominance.
How can the struggling clubs compete with lists under the current system? NSW and QLD have the same salary cap but then a large proportion of the team is given significant top ups from the ARU. Hard to get someone to move to isolated Perth (for example) for the same money. Especially as you can’t legally offer 3rd party payments to entice a player to come, only to keep players you already have. So you add this to the clubs who already have the Wallabies as a 3rd source of money and one not available to new clubs and the system is designed to stop players moving between clubs.
Hard to see how the current system will ever lead to an even competition. And please don’t say that the other areas just need to develop their own talent and stop poaching. For that they would need equal development money and that won’t happen soon, if ever. $250k for the year in WA is hardly going to develop local talent. Especially with no local academy any more as the finding was pulled for that too.
Big changes are needed. I wonder if the new CEO wil be up for the task or in the pocket of NSW and QLD power brokers?
December 11th 2012 @ 3:18pm
PeterK said | December 11th 2012 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
it would even up the aussie teams. They would ALL finish in the middle of the table.
I team makes due to the conference system and gets bundled out 1st game.
What is the point of that.
I would prefer 2 to make the finals with a chance of winning, 1 in the middle, and if that means 2 towards the bottom so be it.
December 11th 2012 @ 3:29pm
Jutsie said | December 11th 2012 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
thats basically what happened this year though without the salary cap. And if you ignore 2011 its happened in almost every other season too for the best part of a decade.
December 11th 2012 @ 3:32pm
PeterK said | December 11th 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
Not true. Tahs made the top 4 finals quite often.
December 10th 2012 @ 7:53am
hotdog said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:53am | Report comment
Some or even a lot of what you say may well be true Spiro, but still the great news for Australian rugby is that both Cooper and Folau have been signed for 2013.
In top form, QC is THE best attacking footballer and most exciting player to watch in either code in this country. Folau, if he makes the switch successfully, will finally provide the wallabies with a big outside back, which we have lacked since Mortlock went past his best in the mid-late 2000s.
On top of that, signing Cooper and Folau does wonders for the code from a marketing and media profile point of view, which our game needs to stay competitive in the Australia sporting market. Its not just about what a player does on the paddock anymore.
With the Lions and their massive fan base coming in 2013, it may be a fantastic season for Aussie rugby ! Despite the rugby politics.
December 10th 2012 @ 7:59am
biltongbek said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:59am | Report comment
As long as it doesn’t break down team spirit and communication though.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:34am
FastEddy said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Spot on Hot dog. And great article Spiro.
ARU got both their men.
They would’ve been well aware of QCs petulance but went ahead anyway.
That’s their choice surely …?
Politics are ubiquitous (leagues that means “everywhere” )
and results are all that matter in pro sport.
the reds will make a motza in gate receipts having QC play again.
Folau and QC will ensure a marketing bonanza as they are both walking headlines
Whether they perform on the pitch, well … That’s another matter ….
December 10th 2012 @ 11:17am
Dan said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Absolute and complete BS. QC the best attacking footballer to watch in either code? What have you been drinkning? Ever heard of Jonathan Thurston? Sorry, but he absolutely craps all over Quade in every single way – better running, VASTLY superior kicking, VASTLY superior vision and passing AND he cant tackle! JT is only the tip of the iceberg too, the other Qld Origin stars also make Cooper look like a reserve grade hack – Billy Slater has more attacking skill in his left nut than Cooper…
Honestly, if the ARU wanted to blow a tonne of cash, the least the could have done was try and poach JT, Billy Slater or Cooper Cronk. THAT would have been worth a million bucks. Then Qld could have an awesome player that would be a shoe-in for the Wallabies AND get great publicity whilst dumping the code’s worst loud-mouthed choker in Coops.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:30pm
Justin2 said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Prone to exaggeration at all Dan?
December 10th 2012 @ 12:35pm
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Justin2 – are you kidding? thurston is the man, the fact he can tackle puts him so ahead of qc without even looking at his other attributes
cronk i’m not so sure would trasfer well to union but billSlater is the christianCullen of league.
check this out for goal kicking
December 10th 2012 @ 12:42pm
Red Kev said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
I know it’s a side issue, but is there a specific aerodynamic reason why a Gilbert flies beautifully when you kick it but a Steeden moves through the air like a turd? I’ve never seen a rugby league ball look anything other than ugly when kicked.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:51pm
abnutta said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
As another side issue, Gilbert and Steeden are both brands owned by Grays International sporting goods company.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:53pm
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
slightly diffrent shape, gilberts are a bit sharper. steedens are more made for passing, where as gilberts is a blance of passing and kicking
December 10th 2012 @ 12:57pm
Jiggles said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Genuine question. Why in league do they seem to only pick off 20 metres max with touch finders but in rugby they pick off 40 metres?
December 10th 2012 @ 1:18pm
abnutta said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
jiggles,
probably a combination of a) the Gilbert balls aerodynamics and b) the absolute imperative to find touch in league as opposed to rugby where a missed touch finder is not as much of a cardinal sin. League players value finding touch and the guaranteed possession from the tap restart. Rugby players will often value field position much higher.
December 10th 2012 @ 3:16pm
Jiggles said | December 10th 2012 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
Cheers. But surely when you have guys who can drop kick it 60 metres like Cronk, Smith and Thurston, you can get a bit more ground than 20 metres.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:44pm
soapit said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
and jiggles missing touch is even more of a no no in league due to not having to contest a lineout to get hold of the ball after finding touch the penalty. so in rugby, more risk of losing the ball there makes it slightly less of a sin to not find touch in the first place.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:59pm
Justin2 said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
I didnt say Thurston wasn’t a gun but to carry on with some of that crap that came from Dan is ludicrous and shows no ability to look at things evenly at all.
December 10th 2012 @ 1:15pm
Dan said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
No, carrying on the way people do about Quade is when has not even begun to prove himself is ludicrous and is indicative of an attention span that would embarrass a goldfish.
December 10th 2012 @ 1:42pm
Justin2 said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Dan – “Billy Slater has more attacking skill in his left nut than Cooper”
Those type of comments are just brilliant. Its EASILY argued that Cooper has as much talent if not more than just about any footballer in the country. Note the word “talent”, not performance, talent!
December 10th 2012 @ 1:58pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
it is far far easier in league than rugby.
The defence is always 10 metres back. The game is slowed during the play the ball. So the playmaker has BOTH time and space to do what he wants. Makes it easy to look good. I suspect JT would struggle a lot for quite a while getting used to defence 2-3 metres away, and the timing of the ball being available being unpredictable.
Cooper has more attacking talent IMO.
December 10th 2012 @ 2:12pm
Dan said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
If you honestly believe that Cooper has more attacking skill than JT you are either blind or you’re Cooper in disguise.
And no, it’s not “easier” in League, as defence is very confrontational and dynamic – why else do you think they change the rules about attacking the kicker and why else is it that so many Rugby league players are coaching union defences?
Listen, I personally prefer Union, but to say League is “easier” is just plain nonsense
December 10th 2012 @ 5:21pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 5:21pm | Report comment
Dan,
Being a playmaker in league is far easier.
So what if the defence in league is Dynamic and confrontational. It is in union as well AND they have less time and space.
Also a playmaker does not have to make a decision. If he is rushed or there is nothing on there is ALWAYS the safe decision to take the tackle and then do a slow play the ball.
In rugby the playmaker has less time AND has to make a decision. If he is going to run the ball he has to judge is there a gap to go through and if he may get caught will there be support to clear the ruck and retain the ball. The playmaker in rugby has to make decisions under pressure ALL the time.
Hence no doubt in my mind it is hard in rugby and Cooper has more attacking talent than JT.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:50pm
stillmatic1 said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:50pm | Report comment
to be fair, peterK, how often do the playmakers in league stand 20-30 metres behind the ball or gainline? union backlines tend to stand much deeper than league and thus have more time and to my eye, make much better and more elaborate plays. coupled with more space on the field and players from both teams getting tied up at the breakdown, union backlines tend to be able to work in much greater space.
just because league players stand 10 metres back, does not mean they automatically have more room to move. like everything, its all relative to what both teams are doing.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:03pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:03pm | Report comment
stillmatic – I agree poor 10′s like Barnes stand far too deep.
Players like Cooper though stand flatter and take the line on.
Also in league the defence is back 10 metres from the so called ruck / play the ball. The hooker passes it back to the playmaker who is standing back from him, so he has more than 10 metres anyway.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:35pm
stillmatic1 said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:35pm | Report comment
agree peterK. it is a feature of quades play that he often runs to the defence, but he is still by and large standing quite a distance back from the gainline. the quick, short balls at the line are by and large designed to recycle the ball quickly over the gainline for the next play (depends if there is a break or not) and not the main crux of the gameplan.
most league defences move up 5 metres when the play the ball has happened, so although the halves may be back further, the defence is obviously closing the space. why does every team do the old second man play? because they need to create some depth in their movements as they are in general too close to the defensive line. its simply a function of the game at the moment.
as a broncos member for the last few years, but a hard core union man, i cant help myself picking apart the weakness of the plays that the league boys run. more and more (or maybe just this current bronco team), the gameplan relies on throwing it to their best players and hoping for something rather than setting the play up. melbourne of course play a more “union” game in this regard (players in motion, offloading, support play).
we gush over great team movements in union, because they have the space (and because they plan for it), than what we do in the average league game. conversely, when a player like inglis, JT, barba et al do something, people go crazy with the hyperbole, because teams rely on it so much. thats why (even though i hate them!!), i can appreciate what the storm do, as it is the best way to play league ( to be more like union!!).
December 11th 2012 @ 12:00am
PeterK said | December 11th 2012 @ 12:00am | Report comment
what is not being taken into account is that the playmaker in league has the soft option.
He can always take the tackle, and it does not matter if he has run away from the support.
In fact he does not have to be that good a playmaker, a good runner of the ball wilth an ok pass will do. He can probe at the defense time and again.
Not so in rugby. An attacking playmaker has to be more skilled in setting up. There is not the easy soft option of just taking the tackle, more things to worry about.
Classic is Beale and Gits at 10, they play like league players running the ball too much and sideways probing. Trouble is this doesnt work in rugby, you get shutdown and forced backwards.
More important is being able to run the team and set up plays and really picking when to run.
You have to a better decision maker in rugby. This is where Cooper is significantly better than JT.
December 11th 2012 @ 10:53am
Wal said | December 11th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
I take your Thurston Kick and top it with a Dan Carter
December 10th 2012 @ 12:57pm
Dan said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Nope, just recognise a one trick pony when I see one. People gushing over Quade seem to be selectively choosing to remember only his 2011 pre-RWC feats and conveniently forget everything afterward.
You don’t get to say Cooper is better than any player in either League or Union in attack without a few people pointing out that Benji Marshall, JT, Cronk, Slater etc have all been doing it better for longer.
December 10th 2012 @ 2:00pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
doing it better when the defence is so far away and they have all the time in the world.
Slater is the only reasonable comparison to make to a f/b in union, the others the situation is so different.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:23pm
Toa said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:23pm | Report comment
Slater has only flourish in the last 4yrs, pre 2008 he was riddle with both frustrations & mistakes to this day he is still prone to errors so I wouldn’t be anointing him as a honorary convert. Don’t get me wrong fantastic player but folks have got to remember he’s been around for a while, his current position is the result of team chemistry,confidence & hard work for him to duplicate that in a foreign environment would mean revisiting the billy slater of pre 2008.
Johnthan Thurston had a similar story before his move to the cowboys, at the bulldogs he was a known as weak defender got lifeline from the cowboys the rest is history. QC like Slater & Thurston is evolving however he needs to reinvent himself both physically & mentally, limit his mistakes play the percentages & gain the confidence of his team mates just like Thurston & Slater……stay tuned
December 11th 2012 @ 12:11am
Malo said | December 11th 2012 @ 12:11am | Report comment
Slater , BJ and Cronk will be converted to union as they are worth 3 QCs in terms of talent. Just imagine how good slater would be.
December 11th 2012 @ 11:46am
Doghouse said | December 11th 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
We will never know coz as we have discovered the Storm were paying him a fortune
December 11th 2012 @ 2:22pm
Sage said | December 11th 2012 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
Dan, at the WC where he had the bejesus jeered out of him then was badly injured. A come back season and instructed to play a game that doesn’t suit him. Negotiations and contracts are one thing but cut the guy some slack for his abiliuity and an opportunity to show it, just like Thurston and Slater have been able too.
Cronk would be my target for Rugby anyway.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:21pm
GWS said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:21pm | Report comment
Jt is predictable. Double pump. Wow. Qc is a better tackler too
December 11th 2012 @ 2:11pm
Sage said | December 11th 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Not being able to tackle a virtue Dan? Interesting……………
December 10th 2012 @ 12:51pm
Renegade said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
“In top form, QC is THE best attacking footballer and most exciting player to watch in either code in this country.”
Did you steal that line from a comedian or something? Absolutely hilarious.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:56pm
mania said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
the key here being when he is in top form. which isnt very often. once or twice a year maybe? i remember before the wc semi’s last year and quades team mates were saying “he’s due a big one” …still waiting
December 11th 2012 @ 12:17am
Malo said | December 11th 2012 @ 12:17am | Report comment
Yeah against crap opposition, he went to water with a bit of pressure at the world cup. Richie McCaw must have been in stitches and Genia had to cover 2 positions.
December 10th 2012 @ 7:54am
Red Block said | December 10th 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Spiro, despite your best attempts to paint a different picture, the Wallabies attack has been dreadful. Deans has tried various players to fill the #10 jumper, none with great aplomb. Cooper’s new contract is recognition of the unique skill set that he brings and that Australian rugby desperately needs him.
The Reds management fought hard for him because he is the face of rugby in Qld for kids. This may hurt a little but unlike Sydney, rugby in Qld is moving forward. Over 30K members, bigger average crowds than any other code. Largely thanks to an innovative coach, great players and good marketing. (Waratahs please note, it’s not that hard).
The ‘capitulation’ claim came about because the ARU stuck its head in the sand and refused to see the bigger picture that the Reds were creating. In other words, if it wasn’t happening in Sydney, it didn’t matter.
As for your claims about the Qld push to take over the ARU, this would mean NSW relinquishing its current system of control ( as recommended by the Arbib report). Currently NSW has the power to veto almost any resolution it doesn’t like. IMO this has held rugby back at times. It should be the best person in the job regardless of where their from.
Lastly I’m not sure which Reds senior players you are referring to. There are hardly any in the team. All of the squad members that I’ve spoken to recently can’t wait for Quade to be fit and firing again and realise Australian rugby is better off when he is playing. Secretly, many of the senior players agreed with Quade but were too frightened (or smart) to speak up for fear of repercussions. Apparently Sharpe was the one who pulled a fractured unit together.
Lastly the ridiculous top up system must be reviewed. Remember Quade wasn’t the only one who delayed in signing. Genia was very close to leaving as well. When two of the best halves in the world, go close to exiting the country, something is very wrong.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:36am
Who Needs Melon said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:36am | Report comment
A great response and good argument for the other side of the story.
I’m not sure where I sit on this. I guess I just want to see guys I admire playing good rugby.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:11am
bill said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:11am | Report comment
good response
December 10th 2012 @ 9:06am
Shrek said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
I agree that the Wallabies attack has been dreadful. But what seems clear (from an outsiders status) is that Cooper was offered generous contract in April, which he turned down, before publically sledging his team.
Irrespective of whether he’s necessary or not to the team (I think no player is necessary – especially when they behave this poorly) , to then offer him a better contract than the one he offered in April is implicit acceptance of his undoubtably poor behaviour.
One other point. Rugby Union (as the players are so fond of telling us) is now a business. I acknowledge it is one where the key employees have a short working life, but they’re also very adequately compensated with a good life style, travel, high pay and excellent contacts that should help them succeed in life and work after their first career. Provideded they don’t act like idiots.
In any other business do you hear the key employees negotating their contracts through the media? No. Why? Because it destroys team spirit and morale within the business. Anyone who did so would be fired, or at least offered a substantially reduced contract. The “managers” who have created this culture now look weak (both at the reds and the wallabies, and ditto the ‘tahs for their Folau comments), will have reduced the trust of their players in due process and in all likelihood will have create a degree of discontent amongst some (note _some_) players.
I was a huge supporter of McKenzie, but irrespective of how this situation ultimately plays out , I think the perception that he and Cooper come as a package is too damaging for the sport, and Cheika (or some other coach) would now be the only appropriate replacement for Deans should he be released.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:37am
Red Kev said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Interesting response, Shrek, but with a couple of massive problems that I can see:
To you first paragraph:
What isn’t clear is why he didn’t sign. It has been reported several times that he asked questions of the ARU regarding the direction of the Wallabies and injury management and received no response. Contrary to Spiro’s grossly misleading article, that original contract offer was not ever referred to as totally unacceptable.
To your last paragraph:
So you believe that because there is a perception that McKenzie comes as a package deal with Cooper – something that isn’t fact, but perception, is not endorsed or acknowledged by McKenzie – you believe that McKenzie should be punished for this? And by extension all the Wallaby supporters who want to see decent rugby rather than tripe labelled acceptable by Deans and his apologists in the media?
December 10th 2012 @ 10:41am
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
“It has been reported several times that he asked questions of the ARU regarding the direction of the Wallabies and injury management and received no response.”
Can you please provide references or links to articles where this was stated prior to QC’s outbursts as I do not recall reading anything along these lines.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:45am
Red Kev said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:45am | Report comment
Why would it be reported prior to his outburst?
From memory (if you really want the sources to 4 month old stories look for them yourself – or better yet I’ll do it when Spiro quotes his sources) you’ll find it reported in The Australian and The Brisbane Times (Rugbyheaven). Possibly the Daily Telegraph but I wouldn’t swear to that one.
December 10th 2012 @ 10:54am
Jutsie said | December 10th 2012 @ 10:54am | Report comment
If it were reported prior to his outburst as an explanation as to why his contract talks had stalled it would hold more gravitas IMO.
Being reported after the outburst makes it seem like PR spin from Camp Quade to paint QC as the good guy/martyr similar to W Smith reporting that QC turned down an offer from a french club that wouldve made him one of the highest paid players in the game.
Nevertheless I dont recall reading anything like that being suggested even after the outburst, I recall it being used as an explanation for his outburst but not for stalls in his contract negotiations, was always under the impression it was more to do with his boxing career amongst other things.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:00pm
Red Kev said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
Maybe it would be seen as having more weight – more likely Cooper’s critics would simply cite it as another example of negotiating through the media. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t…
It doesn’t matter what the message is, some people just want to shoot the messenger because the messenger is Cooper.
December 10th 2012 @ 11:27am
Dan said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
“And by extension all the Wallaby supporters who want to see decent rugby rather than tripe labelled acceptable by Deans and his apologists in the media?”
And many wallabies supports also want players in the team who do their talking ON THE FIELD rather than in their twitter feeds and then play poorly. Qld supports go on about Cooper like he’s in the class of Dan Carter, but in reality he’s had one great Super Rugby season followed by a pretty good TN and an absolutely terrible WC. This year’s form was that of last year’s world cup, so unless he improves out of sight next year he’ll go down as one of the most overpaid flash in the pan player the game has seen.
December 11th 2012 @ 11:20am
Shrek said | December 11th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Kev – re your first point, if this is the case (and being an outsider I have no idea whether this is true or not), then that’s a fair reason for QC not to sign, but I still don’t believe that the ARU’s failure (?) to respond gives him the right to play out contract negotiations in the media.
To your second point, unfortunately, yes. You may disagree (and frankly, I suspect a lot of other people would too!) but my view is that in the long run the potential damage to team cohesiveness is too great a risk to take to appoint someone who may be perceived as favouring certain players.
December 11th 2012 @ 3:20pm
PeterK said | December 11th 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
thats funny.
EVERY single Wallaby coach is perceived to be favouring certain players.
The cry of home state bias is heard all the time.
December 10th 2012 @ 2:03pm
PeterK said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
he was NOT offered a better contract than the one in April, he was offered a better one than the incentive only one in November.
December 10th 2012 @ 9:53am
R5169 said | December 10th 2012 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Brilliantly put!
December 10th 2012 @ 8:00am
The Electronic Swagman said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:00am | Report comment
I have been thrilled by QC’s footballing skills but they come at too high a price. I would have cheered if he had been sacked despite his occasional and flawed brilliance. The allowances made for Cooper, including shifting the backline around on defence, are absurd.
December 10th 2012 @ 8:02am
AussieKiwi said | December 10th 2012 @ 8:02am | Report comment
You make some fair criticisms of the ARU, but your personal attacks on Cooper, based on unsourced third hand hearsay about what some other people might possibly think about him (or not), are completely over the top, nasty, and just poor journalism. To rely on the gossip column of Danny Weidler as evidence of a “delusional Cooper/Nasser world” is laughable. In any event, given the outcome Cooper got, what part of his world is delusional?
December 10th 2012 @ 11:12am
bigbaz said | December 10th 2012 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Well said mate. For some of these people here, including Spiro ,what they don’t know they make up.
December 10th 2012 @ 12:45pm
ignoramus said | December 10th 2012 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
agreed.
Spiro tries to paint Cooper as some kind of ingenious mercenary and then bags him for boorish behaviour and a young twenty something mindset. This is quite ingenious. He is either not as crafty as his Machiavellian machinations suggests or not as dumb as the boorish and poor behaviour that his past indiscretions suggest. Bringing up the laptop incident was a low below – happened a long time ago, of which much was written about, much has been paid for in terms of money, reputation and character. He who casts the first stone?
In relation to Nasser, I haven’t heard one complaint regarding SBW’s dealings with the NZRU from the NZRU. Frankly I’m tired of these dispersions. Play the ball not the man Spiro, otherwise your no better than Growden and the rest of the rumour mongers.
December 10th 2012 @ 2:20pm
Campbell Watts said | December 10th 2012 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
I suspect the Machiavellian machinations may be coming from Nassar, the boorish behavior from Quade.
December 11th 2012 @ 2:35pm
Sage said | December 11th 2012 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
Well said AussieKiwi. A very transparent and subjective article by Mr Zavos. This is becoming more the norm now unfortunately. Personal bias first and then write your piece around it.