Rugby league must improve to stay on top
By Progressive League, 23 Jan 2013 Progressive League is a Roar Rookie
178 Have your say
Rugby league has had incredible growth this century. This is especially so when you think of setbacks like Super League, Coffs Harbour/Christchurch scandals, salary cap rorts, South Sydney’s expulsion and readmission, the Western Reds/South Queensland Crushers/Adelaide Rams and the lopsided international scores.
In the face of these seemingly insurmountable issues, rugby league has cemented itself as the greatest game of all.
It’s really going places down under.
A new billion-dollar TV rights deal, State of Origin, international improvement, an increase in fans/members, new stadiums, a museum, increased playing numbers and media attention and the establishment of the Independent Commission.
However, pats on the back aside, league is still not living up to its potential.
The sport’s biggest problem is lack of real loyalty. Officials and administrators of the code are too self-centred. Not many in the code have the game’s best interests at heart – they prefer loyalty to their club, local league admin and rep state or nation.
Queensland/NSW coaches want to steal young Kiwis to strengthen their teams but at the expense of the international game.
Coaches and players whinge about referees to take the pressure off themselves, while many league people in media are beset by self-interest.
The code’s growth, image and strength should be the main priorities.
First of all, let’s get serious about international league.
Encourage NRL players to play for New Zealand, Pacific Island countries, USA, England, Wales, France, Papua New Guinea and so on.
The closer these countries get to competing and beating Australia, the bigger global league will grow. Jarryd Hayne should be allowed to play for NSW but must play for Fiji.
However New Zealand, Papua New Guinea and England are different.
Benji Marshall must play only for New Zealand, as too Jack Reed for England, and not Origin. They should be rewarded for not choosing Origin if they are eligible to strengthen another country.
Clubs should be allowed to give bonuses (the same money) for all international reps of any country.
League is so insular in this area, but by only making Australia stronger we weaken the global game, which limits potential commercial growth of the NRL and rugby league as a whole. This is AFL’s Achilles’ Heel and rugby union’s strength, we sit somewhere in the middle.
Remember the code in England has persevered with Welsh and French teams to boost the international game. What have us Aussies done except take the New Zealand TV rights money for the NRL, courtesy of the Warriors, and given little back to the game.
We could show leadership in Papua New Guinea but our efforts are token at best. Some junior development and school competitions are being established by the Broncos, but where is the NRL leadership?
Purely from a match-play perspective, the NRL wrestle effectively kills the other nations’ potential offensive momentum. International league rules should reflect that and penalise the Aussies if they continue to wrestle.
Juniors are how we hold Western Sydney, Gold Coast and make inroads into new areas.
We need a consistent calendar – why should league tournaments overlap and conflict with each other? They should be streamlined to accommodate each other’s needs. If league wants a presence in the schools then it must work with all schools to limit conflict.
For example, the Confraternity Rugby League Carnival (involving 40 private schools across Queensland) conflicts with the National U15 carnival and the U16 Queensland B Team.
So many schools fume they do not get better access to their kids. The problem is depth, because the smaller league schools can’t afford to lose their best kids, as opposed to the giant league academies (like Kirwin, Wavell, Keebra, etc) who, by taking all the best kids from other schools, are killing the smaller schools’ ambitions.
We must maintain the Toyota Cup. There are many in league circles who want to attack the 20s but that exposure and limelight has enticed so many talented borderline kids to choose league over union and AFL.
We need greater networking with all schools. At the moment certain clubs’ rep teams tell their kids not to play school football or train, which leaves the schools forming a bad relationship with these clubs.
As a result, some schools won’t consider playing league or ban their kids from club representation completely.
Both clubs and the league (NSWRL, QRL or ARL) should work with the schools to promote the game in that area. A bit of effort to talk and have cordial relations will help build a friendly relationship. The AFL do this so well compared to local leagues and clubs.
This can help build relationships and help league get some into private schools, where it has little presence. If these schools let AFL in, they can let league in but unhappy relationships currently hinder this.
There needs to be zero tolerance of violence. It is absolutely unacceptable and crowd/parent misbehaviour drives so many parents to soccer, AFL or rugby. The recent incidents in Brisbane and Ipswich are testimony to that.
League development officers should carry club colours where possible and promote a club as well as the game, especially in one team cities or regional areas.
For example, all Western Australian development officers should wear the Pirates insignia, because it will promote the club at all levels. All North Queensland development officers should have Cowboys insignia, ACT/Southern NSW in Canberra-green and Victorian staff all in Storm colours.
As to the NRL competition, the current composition is made up of 10 NSW sides (of which nine are based in Sydney), one in the ACT, three in Queensland, one in Victoria and one in New Zealand.
Let’s talk new markets.
Perth and another Kiwi side are a must soon. Both are large league hungry markets containing sizeable populations with perfect TV credentials. I would love to say include Adelaide, Tasmania or Northern Territory but we are some way off of those possibilities yet.
As to the NSW and ACT league heartland, about 7.5 million people are serviced by 11 sides and Queensland has a fast growing 4.7 million with three sides. Meanwhile, the heartland of Papua New Guinea (where league is the official national sport) has 7 million people and no team.
Papua New Guinea is a must and should be fast tracked through infrastructure spending.
The Central Coast would love a side but the Sydney basin is well served with nine sides already, which makes their case hard. The Queensland bids have stronger cases and with their TV audience, at least one more side north of the Tweed is a must.
The poor old Cronulla Sharks often get scapegoated as the Sydney team which needs to be relocated, as well they should. They have a small fan-base and geographically little population expansion room.
Papua New Guinea would be a good fit for them – in baby steps.
The NRL could fund an academy of young Papua New Guinea players at Cronulla, while the Sharks play some home games in Port Moresby when a stadium is ready.
Low crowd pulling games against the likes of North Queensland, New Zealand, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne, Penrith and possibly Newcastle played in PNG would suddenly have large, vocal crowds.
Papua New Guinea would embrace the Sharks as their team and open up a new market of fans. The NRL could help Cronulla top up their membership-ticketed games by allowing them to be used at away matches against other Sydney clubs.
The Roosters too have growth and fickle fan problems but their deep pockets save them quite a bit. The Central Coast might look good for them.
Stadiums are another area where the AFL is killing league. The old Sydney Showground, or ACT government funding AFL games shows just how far ahead the AFL is in this department.
League has up to five teams using Homebush, whereas a boutique rectangular stadium at the showground would have suited most NRL games.
Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane is the best. It’s close to the city, has two accessible train stations and easy car/bus drop off access. Melbourne will benefit long-term from their upgraded stadium, as too Newcastle.
The Gold Coast have a great stadium close to rail but it is away from the city action at Robina, while the AFL have their stadium closer to the action at Carrara/Broadbeach. Rail from Robina to Broadbeach/Surfers is the only long term fix.
Townsville and Canberra both need new modern stadiums in the city and Canberra’s should be indoor. Mt Smart in New Zealand is a good stadium but it is 20 minutes train ride out of the city.
Let’s finish with Sydney. Financing over 11 quality stadiums for each team will not work. Big games deserve the best venues. ANZ is great for Origin, grand finals, big preliminary finals and the odd big club game but otherwise it’s too large.
Allianz is fine but it’s not really in the city, is hard to access directly by train (you usually need buses or cabs), is crying out for a roof, is getting a bit old and the new light rail won’t move enough people.
Sydney has nine teams, yet lacks a stadium in the heart of the city, like Brisbane or Melbourne. It needs its own ‘Suncorp’ somewhere near Circular Quay or the Domain so it can capitalise on trains, buses, ferries, tourists and bored city workers from Thursday to Monday nights.
It’s time for the NRL to influence the NSW government in the same way the AFL does. The Queensland Government has built new state of the art stadiums with Suncorp and Skilled in the last 10 years, Victoria built AAMI, Auckland upgraded both Mt Smart and Eden Park, while NSW government have only majorly upgraded Newcastle and partially upgraded Wollongong
Even the partial upgrade of Allianz (SFS) still hasn’t solved the main issue of rail transport.
It’s about time the NRL pressured the supposed home of rugby league that is NSW.
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January 23rd 2013 @ 6:43am
peeeko said | January 23rd 2013 @ 6:43am | Report comment
Jaryd Hayne – born,bred and lived his life in Australia, not Fiji
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:48am
oikee said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Yes, he is a aussie. Besides, this opens up as spot for another Fijian, i dont see the problem with that.?
Australia will always be stronger than any island teams, we have more people, it is only natural. That still does not mean Fiji, Topnga and samoa, even the Coook Islands cant compeat, they do quite well and are made for rugby league. Coming fourth is a big deal to thse smaller nations.
One upset is considered a victory. I happen to really loved the smaller rivalries last world cup. They put on quite a show.
Nothing left in the tanks. This is what the world cup is all about, doing your best with what you have got, just making a world cup should be enough of a victory, and it is to these small nations. Only 14 spots available.
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:23am
turbodewd said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:23am | Report comment
What’s the obsession with ensuring there is a Fiji national side?! The NFL is full of islanders, you dont see them trying to conjure of a Fiji v USA gridiron game.
January 23rd 2013 @ 10:17am
Tiger said | January 23rd 2013 @ 10:17am | Report comment
The nfl is not full of islanders, there are a few players with Polynesian heritage but not many at all from the pacific islands themselves.
Rugby league is quite popular in Fiji and has the ability to produce nrl players and have a strong Fijian test team, that is the difference. They don’t have to ‘conjure’ anything!
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:35pm
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
That is correct Tiger.ATM selection trials are going on in Fiji,to find players ,who will be added to tose who have come over to play in the NRL and were born in Fiji,to give their national side,plenty of ecperience and raw power.
January 26th 2013 @ 7:14am
Progressive League said | January 26th 2013 @ 7:14am | Report comment
The NFL is also primarily restricted to one country, is that where you want league to go because at this rate Australia and possibly NZ will be the last outposts of the game. The game is under the pump in the UK and really needs help. Currebtly the Superleague cant find a major sponsor and last season they gave away the sponsorship rights for free to a trucking company.
January 26th 2013 @ 8:27am
Rob9 said | January 26th 2013 @ 8:27am | Report comment
League may have a richer history in more countries but I can assure that nowadays American Football has a greater international presence.
January 26th 2013 @ 7:11am
Progressive League said | January 26th 2013 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Hayne started his International career with Fiji, he choose that pathway because his father is a former South Sydney, Magpie and Warriors player Manoa Thompson who played for Fiji. Just because you live somewhere does not mean that is your nationality necessarily. There are plenty of nationalities living down under as too there are plenty of Aussies living abroad, many of those professional athletes who live, train and may have been born abroad but still play for Australia.
January 26th 2013 @ 7:43am
peeeko said | January 26th 2013 @ 7:43am | Report comment
i think you will find that he played for Australia before he played for Fiji. he only played for Fiji when he couldn’t make the Australian side. Yes i know that his Dad is Manoa Thompson. my point was that Jaryd is technically eligible for both sides but shouldn’t be made to play for Fiji. He has two parents, one Fijian and the other Australian i believe. really considering his heritage is split and the fact that was born, raised and produced under the Australian football system means he should probably play for Australia. Under the rules he can play for either country but is most definitely an Australian with parents of dual heritage
January 23rd 2013 @ 7:24am
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 7:24am | Report comment
Agree with many of your points,but you lost it a little , when you suggested the Shark’s have a small fan base,and little expansion room.
The fan base(crowds) on average over the years, is not that much less than some of the bigger clubs.all this with at one stage a club under the financial hammer,and with little cover for the patrons on a wet and miserable day.The club has one of the biggest junior leagues in Sydney.The club owns its own ground,thus will be able to improve the facilities.
The financial postion has improved to such an extent,and with developments(retail to be built) starting end this year ,to make it one of the clubs, that will rely least on poker machine revenue,and thus be better positioned financially.
As to growth population wise,obviously you have not heard of the Green Hills housing development near Wanda,the high density housing that continues to develop in the Shire (including the 600 units for the shark’s development and the further developments planned for the Menai area.
You discount the many Shark’s fans who do not live within the Shire ,some moved out for various reasons.Many attend games when they get the opportunity.
Therefore to use the argument because the Roosters have plenty of cash,they should stay,when they have few juniors and fans (with a decent stadium thrown in) and in an area that is not growing,makes a complete mockery of the Sharks moving out comment.
The lesson should have been well learnt from Super league,crash clubs and the fans go walking .
I would like to comment about player behaviour.Judging by the real lack of atrocities(the odd one) over this off season.You brought up other codes,but there have been a few by players from the AFL individually,an incident involving a former Waratahs captain(about 10 days ago) DUI,and some on/off field incidents in junior soccer in Sydney.They have hardly been highlighted in the Sydney press.Occasionally on TV.
So the perception falls more heavily on the rl players.It is up to them to continue to pull their heads in,and get on with it.
January 26th 2013 @ 8:08am
Progressive League said | January 26th 2013 @ 8:08am | Report comment
Im aware of the Sharks demographics, and yes things look on the up for them with the Leagues Club development but 600 odd units and a housing estate wont ensure off field success. The Sharks under financial hammer, must I remind you that South Sydney were dead for two years and look where they are now. Top or close second top the Sydney league clubs in memberships for the last 7 seasons (only 2 seasons in top 8 in that time), top sponsorship and are the only Sydney club to run a profit even without a great poker machine base. You can throw Crowe’s name in the mix but Souths have made some tough decisions before Crowe like moving to Homebush to improve their bottom line and improve the facilities on offer to the fans and corporates. They also play a match in Perth, QLD and the Central Coast again capitalising on their expanded fan base. The Sharks do own their own ground but cannot fund upgrades and why should the governement fund an upgrade of a stadium only used by one club team. It is a waste of taxpayers money and they have said as much that the stadium strategy will change to a policy like Melbourne adopted 15years ago for the AFL clubs.
The Sharks may not have won a premiership but niether have Souths since 1971. In that 40yr period the Sharks have enjoyed more onfield success appearing in 3 Grand Finals to Souths none, making regular finals appearances to Souths very few, even making a preliminary final not long ago in 2008 when they finished 3rd drawing a crowd of 27 thousand. Souths finished 3rd this season and played a preliminary final in front of 70 odd thousand. The Bulldogs played the Eeels in a Preliminary Final a few years ago in front of over 70 thousand too, as too did St George v Wests Tigers. The Sharks played the Dragons in a preliminary final in 1999 that attracted 50 odd thousand thanks too the Dragon supporters who outnumbered the Sharks 4-1 that day. The Roosters, Manly or Sharks could not draw those numbers to a preliminary final that is the reality (Im unsure bout the Panthers). Tigers, Eels, Dogs, Rabbits, Dragons have very large supporter bases so if rationalisation was to occur in Sydney they have a very good argument to stay. That pits the Sharks against the Roosters cash and seemingly large supporter base (when they are winning), the Panthers western expanse, leagues club and junior nursery or Manly, a club that has made 6 Grand Finals since 1995 and is the only NRL club on Sydney’s northshore.
Your juniors argument is folly. The Roosters dont have juniors but have made 5 Grand Finals since the NRL’s inception in 1998, Melbourne similarly have made 6 Grand Finals without a strong junior base although it is growing I must admit. The reality is the salary cap and recruitment override juniors. Im certainly not defending the Roosters who will point out what they spend on their own rep sides as junior development, Im sure they spend no where near as much on grass roots junior development then other clubs do but the reality is they do not.
You mention Sharks fans not living in the district, well every club has fans elsewhere, hence why these smart clubs take games elsewhere to expand their fan base and improve their bottom line. The Roosters, Dogs, Rabbits and even Manly have regurly taken games to Gosford, Dogs to Adelaide, Dragons to Perth, Souths, Roosters & Dogs to QLD. The Sharks for financial reasons a few years ago wanted to move 4 games to Gosford but wanted financial assistance from the NRL, no other club got NRL assistance when they took games to Gosford so the NRL said no. Sharks subsequently said no.
My player behaviour comment was made only to highlight that league survives scandal, even thrives on it. Im aware of the other codes getting better treatment, that is the reality of Channel 9 and News Ltd through the Telegraph running their own political and sporting agendas.
You mention lessons of Superleague that fans walk away. You are right they did in Perth when the Reds went, they did in Adelaide when the Rams left, in Brisabne when the Crushers left and they did lose some fans on Gold Coast when the Chargers went (most have returned with the Titans). The only Sydney club that lost fans was the Bears of which many now follow other clubs. So your point is Superleague taught us we lost 4 interstate teams and their fans to Sydney’s 1. I wonder what the NRL would want to increase tv ratings, national sponsorship exposure or boost junior numbers, another team in an already crowded market or a franchise in a new large potential interstate market.
January 23rd 2013 @ 7:33am
Worlds biggest said | January 23rd 2013 @ 7:33am | Report comment
The Sharks might give it a good crack this year as they have recruited superbly, what if they were to win it all, relocate ?? Only 2 teams use Homebush as a full time home stadium. Perth makes sense as does a second Brisbane team, two big markets. Central Coast would b great would be great while New Guinea is an interesting one.
January 23rd 2013 @ 7:39am
Valleys Diehard of Brunswick st said | January 23rd 2013 @ 7:39am | Report comment
The Sharks won’t relocate to a great new market like Perth yet alone to a financially unstable market that is PNG. Parramatta, Manly & Souths should be given serious incentives to relocate as well. The usual sanctimony from Sydney based RL clubs and fans aside…. our game needs rationalisation and relocating perennially under performing or clubs from geographically minor revenue streams ( here’s looking at you, Manly ) is the sound an option available. The Manly licence should be given to the Bears for a Central Coast team, cue bleating from Manly fans and sympathisers that’s the only option available north of Mosman and South of Newcastle.
If something is not done by 2020 regarding my point above, and pathetic self interest from said clubs turns into guarantees from the ARL then the competition is in trouble.
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January 23rd 2013 @ 8:56am
Mals said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:56am | Report comment
“our game needs rationalisation and relocating perennially under performing or clubs from geographically minor revenue streams ( here’s looking at you, Manly ) is the sound an option available.”
Manly has won 8 premierships since 1972 and had the 8th highest NRL crowd attendance in Australia last year. Find some actual facts instead of talking rubbish.
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:26am
turbodewd said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Considering how high Manly get on the ladder 8th spot is very ordinary. Brookvale is an ordinary venue which explains this partially.
January 23rd 2013 @ 11:23am
Mals said | January 23rd 2013 @ 11:23am | Report comment
It is average turbodewd. 7 other Australian clubs are below this including the STORM, you know, the team that won the title in 2012.
January 23rd 2013 @ 12:25pm
Pot Stirrer said | January 23rd 2013 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
Yes its amusing ppl want the game to expand when the truth is Melb does less for the game than the clubs ppl keep mentioning to relocate. IMO if you want a model to build the NRL around than look at the EPL. That is the direction RL needs to go imo.
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:34am
B.A Sports said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Rationalisation/relocation is not (should not be) about what you have done in the past. It is about the future, the potential for growth, the potential investment, the potential for commercial investment.
Strictly as an example
Cronulla winning a premiership tomorrow does not just automatically make null and void the issues of the small market.
Souths winning a premiership does not remove the fact the fact they do not play in South Sydney
Roosters winning, doesn’t fix the problem of no juniors
And what ever success Manly have had on the field does not change the fact they have ownership issues and the worst home ground and no sign of future investment
January 23rd 2013 @ 11:21am
Mals said | January 23rd 2013 @ 11:21am | Report comment
A proven history of long term failure on the field should count against teams going forward. Sounds like you have been reading Phil Rothfield articles. He has a big agenda against Manly & continually attacks David Perry despite him improving Manly’s financial position in a short amount of time.
January 23rd 2013 @ 12:16pm
B.A Sports said | January 23rd 2013 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
I never said Manly should be the one to go, I sighted reasons why FOUR clubs “strictly as an example” were my exact words, could be considered for relocation. You know, after defending their club and players countless times for indiscretions, inappropriate behaviour, illegalities etc, Manly supporters are so defensive, maybe it would be in the best interest of their health to move the team and relieve their fan base of the stress of defending their club as you seem to revert to defence even when a defence isn’t required. Can’t be fun.
And I have not read a word typed by Phil Rothfield in at least 5 years, and don’t appreciate the insinuation that i would care to. I make no claim to being the smartest person in the world, but i have enough brains not to bother wasting time on his rubbish.
January 24th 2013 @ 11:56am
oikee said | January 24th 2013 @ 11:56am | Report comment
You must be a good bloke if you dont read the buzz. Nice work squire, welcome.
January 24th 2013 @ 11:46am
Valleys Diehard from Brunswick st. said | January 24th 2013 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Manly is a team that survives due to 11th hr financial support from noble Northern Beaches “White Knights”. BTW Mals, the column had nothing to do with ladder position and your crowd attendance figures, for a club that has indeed been high on the ladder for years is dismal. Manly has no $$ even after years of on-field success. The licence should be given ti the Bears for the CCoast endeavour. End of story.
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:32am
Jamal said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Are you kidding even bringing up Parra as a team to relocate. You would have to have rocks in your head to even consider this.
They are one of the most supported teams in the comp and they would have to be one of the last Sydney clubs to relocate.
January 24th 2013 @ 11:42am
Valleys Diehard from Brunswick st. said | January 24th 2013 @ 11:42am | Report comment
No rocks Jamal, I’ve got a brain. You are just another Sydney-cenrtic troll that clogs these forums. They are nowhere near the likes of the Dragons, Tigers, and Bulldogs. Parra have an ambiguous financial position due to the bounty that Dennis Fitzgerald obtained. But the only yard stick that you choose to use is the volume of Parra jerseys around where you live, no doubt in South- West Sydney.
January 24th 2013 @ 12:02pm
oikee said | January 24th 2013 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
We are all on the same side, i dont think Manly or Parramatta will be going anywhere. You dont throw away good brands these days, no matter how bad they might be going on or off the field.
Look, if the game wants to grow, then Second team in Brisbane and NZ will shore up the whole thing.
If they want to expand more into new markets, the only thing to do is create a 2x ten or eleven conference teams.
The first thing they really need to do is shore up Brisbane so we have at least a game on every weekend, not every second weekend as we do now. Brisbane will thrive and grow huge if we get a local derby team, we be bigger than Collingwood, Bigger than Man U, bigger than the wood-ducks.
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:08am
B.A Sports said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:08am | Report comment
You can’t “Encourage” players to play for NZ, Fiji etc, they will go where they can provided it is in the rules. So the rule makers need to maker it clearer. Origin doesn’t need the likes of Marshall, Tamou etc, to be successful, so tighter legislation is needed.
Similarly stronger administration and decision making is going to be needed across the board. I agree with many of your comments regarding relocation and clubs looking after themselves and not considering the league (across the board there are also a lot of people in positions way above their skill sets), hence we need a league who tell clubs what they need to be doing.
As for Stadia, the NRL have got helping hands from the State Govt, see Kogarah, WIN, and Hunter (and even Belmore) in just the last 3 years. A lousy NSW Govt, and poor priorities has meant these spends have not been the best value for money when considering the greater good of the game. The NRL needs to secure significant third party private investment to secure State Govt funding. Either way they need to get club games out of ANZ, the ground loses its mystique and thearte come Finals time because we have seen it on TV twice every weekend for the last 6 months.
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:32am
turbodewd said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:32am | Report comment
For Origin to be legit ACT players must be excluded. I am from the ACT, we have our own flag, own parliament, own laws. No Canberra should be allowed to play for NSW – its as silly as all the fake Qlders who have played for Qld over the years. OR put the ACT flag on that ad-riddled light blue jersey.
SOO rules have been a farce for years.
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:13am
B.A Sports said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:13am | Report comment
Agree.
Though it might make the Queanbeyan Kangaroos tough to beat in the junior grades
January 23rd 2013 @ 4:52pm
Dayer said | January 23rd 2013 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
I agree 100% why in the first place did ACT play for NSW … anyone with answers???????
January 23rd 2013 @ 11:58pm
Dean - Surry Hills said | January 23rd 2013 @ 11:58pm | Report comment
The ACT only became a self-governing Territory in 1989.
It was a part of NSW at Federation. It was a part of NSW when the first interstate rivalry was conducted against QLD.
There was bugger all in Canberra until the mid 1940′s.
A place called North Arm Cove – 40kms North of Newcastle was also one of the sites selected to become the Nations Capital and detailed planning was also drawn up by Sir Walter Burleigh Griffin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Arm_Cove,_New_South_Wales
What if the Nations Capital had been built there ? Would you suggest that certain Novocastrians be ineligible to play for The NSW Blues, but the folks in Canberra are now eligible? Crazy talk.
January 24th 2013 @ 12:46am
Brewski said | January 24th 2013 @ 12:46am | Report comment
The ACT was transferred to the COMMONWEALTH in 1911, so it has not been in NSW hands for over 100 years, the people of Canberra do not think of themselves as NSWelshmen, the people of Queanbeyan however do.
The 1940′s as you put it were over 70 years ago.
The population of Canberra is over 330k.
January 24th 2013 @ 4:23pm
Dean - Surry Hills said | January 24th 2013 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
It only became a self governing Territory in 1989 – and its citizens were required to abide by the laws of NSW until that time. That’s only 24 years ago.
You’d be better off telling former Blues players from the region that they should have been ineligible to play for the Blues – so they could tell you personally to “stop with the crazy talk.”
What your attempting to say is that if Townsville had of been selected to become the Nations Capital then folks from up there would not be entitled to throw on a Maroon jumper. You’d get the same reply from Far North Queenslanders.
January 24th 2013 @ 4:58pm
Brewski said | January 24th 2013 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
You make it sound like the ACT was administered by Sydney ?, it was not !!, it was administered by the federal Government and the federal territories minister.
It is nothing like Townsville and Newcastle because they were already established towns/cities, Canberra was not.
Canberra was completely independant of NSW prior to self governemnt in 1989.
It had it own laws/courts and acts of parliament.
As usual you are way off the mark.
January 25th 2013 @ 11:43am
Dean - Surry Hills said | January 25th 2013 @ 11:43am | Report comment
http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/12/18/canberra-raiders-juniors-blocked-by-nswrl/
You all should have thrown your two cents worth in , way back when this Roar article was published.
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:19am
jamesb said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:19am | Report comment
With the stadiums in Sydney, there is a chance that two or three suburban grounds will fall by the wayside and be replaced by a new boutique stadium.
Also I like to see a PNG side based in the QLD cup. Do that, slowly but surely you’ll see a steady stream of PNG players playing in the NRL.
But yeah, in general, the NRL and Rugby League have alot of work to do.
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:19am
turbodewd said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:19am | Report comment
I dont think NRL crowds are as good as they could be. Massive room for improvement. We only averaged 17,000. I was concerned that Bris and GC had ordinary crowds over the past 2 yrs. We are roughly HALF what AFL gets. So there is huge scope for improvement. (source http://stats.rleague.com/ )
And none of our playoff games, other than the GF, were sellouts. I was at the Canberra v Cronulla game and it was an excellent crowd of 24,000….but still not full.
PNG will not get an NRL team in our lifetimes. No Aussie WAG will want to visit the crimefest of Port Moresby so effectively it will be void of Aussies. And how can a PNG NRL team expect a slice of the TV revenue pie when the contribute zero? Its a nice idea but impractical.
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:37am
oikee said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:37am | Report comment
It’s going to take more than 5 minutes to grow and fix rugby league. Lets not get ahead of ourselves and expect miracles when only this year will rugby league have money to grow the game. We have never had cash to grow.
Other codes have had a massive leg-up in the corporate world compared to rugby league. It has taken league a longer time to build that success. If it was not for mining i still think we would have been struggling.
Anyhow, our time is now, with the world cup this year, growth will come from around the Pacific. PNG is a huge market, still alot of work to do before we can say PNG is fixed.
We are going about this the right way, money spent in the schools., we also need to keep the Pacific cup alive and well.
Plus a nines series, if we are going to put effort into anything, i think the nines is a great building block.
Freddie and Joey Johns plus whoever else they can get to help promote Fiji is a bonus. I think all hands on deck is what rugby league needs. The game has now come under 1 banner, and the admin is all together, that was fragmented and all over the shop.
There was alot of issues, the country league, second tier and below needs to come in line with the a-grade teams.
Brisbane is a huge feeder area, i think NZ also needs to become a better feeder area. We are not utilising what we have.
Victoria needs lots of work, same as the rest of the country. This will take time.
What we all have to do is be patient. I will not expect too much, it will take at least 4 years to see good progress, and when you will notice the game is next world cup in Australia. Rugby league is in a fantastic position, not only do we have a good opportunity for growth in the UK and Europe with the world cup coverage, but also the international game and play-offs for spots in the next world cup in Australia and NZ will grow the game 5 fold.
That is the growth, real growth we will be able to see. I think Australia could have 16 teams in the next world cup.
That will bring it into line with the right amount of teams, any more is too many, any less is not quite enough, the balance will be right, play-off spots will continue to get stronger.
I think the game is looking pretty good. At least most locals can still enjoy going to a world cup experience, this is becoming harder and harder with rugby and soccer.
Australia is a exotic destination as well to foriegners. Keeping the rugby league world cup in Australia every 8 years is vital.
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:28am
turbodewd said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Noone cares about the World Cup of rugby league. Noone.
January 23rd 2013 @ 10:22am
Tiger said | January 23rd 2013 @ 10:22am | Report comment
I care about the rugby league World Cup, so you’re wrong already. And ticket sales in the uk went past 50k in the first week, so there is a few more people who care. Fiji ran out of tvs during the 2008 rlwc due to villages buying them to watch their national team play so well, so there is a few more people who might care.
Thousands of people greeted the kiwis when they arrived in Auckland with the cup, pretty sure they cared as well, so wrong again!
January 23rd 2013 @ 3:15pm
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
+1
January 23rd 2013 @ 3:57pm
Renegade said | January 23rd 2013 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
+1
January 23rd 2013 @ 4:30pm
Media Beatup said | January 23rd 2013 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
+1
There’s nothing like a good slapdown.
January 23rd 2013 @ 6:38pm
Rob9 said | January 23rd 2013 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
-1
I know this isn’t a very popular view around here but I don’t really care about the RL world cup or international RL in general.
I’m a diehard Sharks/Blues fan but my interest in the international game extends to looking at the squad the selectors went with and that’s about it. I’ll watch a Trans Tasman test if I’m available but it’s not a must see for me personally.
I know that this runs counter to the views of a lot of the league posters on the roar but I think if you’re honest with yourself you’d have to agree that the interest in international league in the wider community is nothing like it is for the interest that’s generated around SOO or the NRL season.
Yes I know the Kiwis are the current world cup champions but international league has become a 1 horse race in recent times (a 2 horse race at best). The results point to this. Crowd figures and ratings also suggest that the GP just don’t get all that turned on by international league either.
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:31pm
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:31pm | Report comment
I am honest with myself and consider international rugby league a growing and a necessary long term component of the game.To consider some of us as not being sincere, is a bit rich.
Everyone has a view on the matter,but please there are more than a few rl internationalists who are interested,as the ticket sales in the early stage of the 2013 event showed.It gives lesser countries a window of opportunity.
If every administrator adopted that introverted view ,we would still be playing the NSWRL as the major comp.
The interest in the general community is not as great as the SOO,so what.The SOO a series nationally creates more interest than an NRL G/F.should we overloook the G/F.
There are people who prefer club results to SOO,so what.
Go on a Kangaroo tour to the UK,look at the Tv ratings for internationals here they average around the 1m plus mark in this country.
The closetted view because only one ot two countries have a real chance is not the point,as the rah rah FitzSimons used to say,its about competing.How many countries can win the netball world cup.The hockey world cup.Yanks used to dominate swimming at the OPs.The results pointed to that also.
January 23rd 2013 @ 10:05pm
Rob9 said | January 23rd 2013 @ 10:05pm | Report comment
Crosscoder, I wasn’t asking you to be honest with yourself over those matters. I have observed many international RL diehards on this site look at this particular tier of game through rose coloured glasses and either try and suggest that the international scene is something that it’s not or that it will become something that it is very unlikely to achieve. For this reason I’ve started that sentence asking these particular posters that are passionate international league fans (something I’m not but as a devout NRL fan, something I admire) to be honest with themselves before judging my post.
It appears that you have looked at it rationally and agree with my observation but have asked ‘so what’? Well it’s an observation I’ve made that’s relevant to the topic that was raised above regarding the popularity of international league…. that’s so what.
You’ve then gone on to attempt to put words into my mouth by suggesting that I’ve somewhere made the observation that there are only a few international league fans out there. Not something I’ve said. Again, I made the observation that the NRL and SOO are significantly more popular than international league in the wider community. That’s not saying there are only a few international fans out there. Obviously there are international league fans out there but again, if you look at the facts and figures, the wider community isn’t as engaged in this particular area of the game compared to the other two competitions that I’ve mentioned.
You’re right, everyone does have their opinion on the matter of international rugby league but please don’t label mine as introverted and suggest that such viewpoints would have seen our competition remain in the dark ages. As an NRL fan, I believe it’s their responsibility to grow the game within our own borders. That means their focus and funds should be spent creating a bigger and better league in Australia. Believe me, such an attitude would have ensured we pulled the game past the NSWRL at the national level.
My point here is that funding generated within Australia and spent growing the games beyond our borders is not only wrong but fruitless. Impacting the sporting landscape and therefore culture takes a significant investment, and as the NRL can attest, this sort of money doesn’t grow on trees. Throw in the fact that RL really only has a presence on the eastern seaboard of Australia, there’s still a lot of work to be done here before we start worrying about trying to make an impression on external lands.
My ‘closetted’ view regarding the competitiveness of international league is one that’s obviously shared by many others. Do you seriously not think that if league had a more competitive international scene that its popularity wouldn’t be significantly greater? Common, that’s really a no-brainer.
Crosscoder, you’ve got me wrong if you think I’m commenting here to knock international league. International game play is not an area of the game I follow closely but as a lover of the RL it’s an area that I hope continues to make gains (naturally though and not due to millions of dollars being poured in from Australia). I’m also realistic about what those gains can be and I’ll continue to make assessments on the state of the international scene from planet earth which is something that some other posters seem to struggle to do. I just don’t understand why some people choose to pin a codes success and their enjoyment from said code on its international appeal. I’d suggest that these types will remain disappointed well into the future. I’m no less a league fan than you or anyone else here but I’ll remain content seeing the sport and our domestic league go from strength to strength in our little corner of the globe.
January 24th 2013 @ 7:05am
Crosscoder said | January 24th 2013 @ 7:05am | Report comment
Let me suggest,I am not looking through rose coloured glasses.I get monthly updates as to what is going on in brilliant colour,both the good and the bad.I visited the old dart for an ashes rl series.
Of course there is a long way to go.
And I honestly don’t see where you get the idea, that people view Intnl rl something it is not.
We are aware of its current limitations,and domination by a couple of countires,but also aware of the smaller countries such as PNG,Fiji for starters who relish the thought of playing in the RLWC.
Any Internationalist worth his salt is completely au fait with the situation good and bad.
Your point because SOO is more popular in this country than Intnl rl,because only a couple of countries capable of winning it,then the relevancy is not worthy of consideration by you.Fair enough you are entitled to that view.
My response with an opposing view is so what! All codes have to start from somewhere..Even AFL is spending money outside this country.
I actually agree that first and foremost monies must be spent here to underpin the code (elite to grassroots )hence the ARLC is building a $225m fund for doing such a thing plus faciltiy improvemernt.
Where on earth did I suggest your view was , there was only a few intnl rl fans out there.My wording”"to consider some of us as not being sincere is a bit rich.”.Some of us,meaning the ones I have some contact with,via this board and eye to eye.
And how do you develop competiton in order to get the bigger crowds.? By having continual competition ,in the first place.Experience is the best teacher.That is a no brainer.
Thinking within ones environs IMO is clossetted.Don’t neglect the outside world,else others fill the vauum.
The biggest example of this was the PNG v England side playing in Townsville RLWC08.At one stage the Papuans were playing like men possessed and serving it up to the Poms.Lack of experience(there’s that word again) prevented them from doing so(winning),but they get them on ehell of a fright..
.
I support your last para in full and agree the code has to get its own backyard up to scratch,but as a follower of the code for decades,and having seen competitive games between the Poms when they beat us.I also want a strong national game underpinned by a string grassroots network.
Additionally I want a growing and strong(by regular matches)international scene,as an adjunct.Because there will be no doubt players if they cannot represent will look at ru ,as an alternative.
NB>I also want the Sharks to become a Super Club before any of the above happens.And the first $10m dropped in to the club’s bank account,is the first step toward that goal.
You see club for me comes first,that’s where I started.
January 24th 2013 @ 9:20am
Rob9 said | January 24th 2013 @ 9:20am | Report comment
CC, I’ll point out for you next time I see someone comment on an IRL article looking at the state of the game or its potential future through rose colours. It happens.
The competitiveness (or lack of) of international rl is only one of a number of factors that cause lower levels of engagement with the wider community. And yes, the blues on paper have been getting a touch up over the last 7 years but how many of those series have been a whitewash? And how many games have been won by 6 or more points? Although the Maroons have taken the cherries for the last 7 years, almost all of these series have been tightly contested.
Where on earth did you suggest my view was that there are only a few international rl fans? Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that what this was?: “Everyone has a view on the matter,but please there are more than a few rl internationalists who are interested,as the ticket sales in the early stage of the 2013 event showed.It gives lesser countries a window of opportunity.”
I can assure you that when it comes to my thinking on rugby league, sport and life in general it goes well beyond my own environ. Speaking specifically about rl, I look at practices from all around the world, many of which I’ve witnessed firsthand from spending a reasonable amount of time in the States and Europe. I just choose to apply my learning’s to ideas to strengthen what we have here as opposed to attempting to change something that for the most part is out of the hands of us Australians and very hard to influence. And for the record I do have ideas on what sort of formation international league should take on, it’s just not as glorified as what most ‘internationalists’ would want.
I know the AFL are investing in places beyond our borders, but to be honest I believe its p#ssing money up against a wall. Let me explain. Sport makes up an integral part of a national culture. Australia by no means represents a cultural leader that has the ability to significantly influence external cultures. We’re a relatively small market (miniscule when compared to the US and the big fish in Europe) and this will always impede our ability to make significant impressions on other cultures. There’s no denying that the US is a cultural leader. Taking the NFL as an example, the sport has a mass following around the world. It’s just about reached saturation point within their own market and they’re now looking beyond their own borders with regular season games being taken to Canada, Mexico and the UK. Now this is a sport that signed a $40b TV deal (money to burn) and has a presence in just about every nook and cranny in the largest (economically speaking) market in the world. Despite the games appeal and exposure around the world and being a part of the biggest cultural influencer on the globe, NFL Europe proved that moving a sport into a new market is an uphill battle. We and the AFL don’t have money to burn and neither can even say they have complete coverage within the Australian market.
You say that players will look to rugby if rl’s international scene continues to lag behind, but I don’t believe they will. As Kurtley Beale has recently proven, rl has its own appeal and strengths the ru doesn’t. The opportunity to play in one of the toughest rugby competitions in the world for 26 weeks (a decent season), the potential of playing in a Grand Final and of course being involved in SOO, the toughest contest on the planet all holds some sort of sway amongst footballers.
As I’ve said, I appreciate the gains international league makes and enjoying hearing of its growth. I’m realistic about it though and I will always believe that our absolute focus and attention (and funding) needs to be on growing the game in Australia.
January 23rd 2013 @ 4:57pm
Dayer said | January 23rd 2013 @ 4:57pm | Report comment
I do and also all my league loving friends
January 23rd 2013 @ 8:58am
Will Sinclair said | January 23rd 2013 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Wow – there are some big ideas in here!
You’ve apparently got the NRL building critical infrastructure in PNG, building a new stadium in Sydney, and building a new (NRL specific?) rail line on the Gold Coast.
Why stop there? Why haven’t the NRL established a team on Mars yet? They have a potential population of several billion, and there is no NRL presence there whatsoever!
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:17am
Australian Rules said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:17am | Report comment
This article read like: if the ARLC had $5B, here’s what they should spend it on…
There’s an oikee-esque level of planning (cheerleading) going on here.
In the past the NRL and the clubs *have* lobbied the NSW Govt for stadium funds. Unfortunately, the money’s gone to refurbing suburban stadia and significantly, hasn’t included a contribution from the NRL itself and rarely even, from private stakehodlers.
Usually, its just been a govt handout.
The author suggests building a brand new stadium in Circular Quay (!). In 2012, with the exception of the GF and one Prelim, there was 1 game of NRL in Sydney…one… which had more than 40k. Hard to get private investors to give their billions when the figures in Sydney almost guarantee they won’t get their money back.
Millions to PNG? Sure! Build a train Robina to Broadbeach? I’m not sure this guy is serious.
January 23rd 2013 @ 11:12am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | January 23rd 2013 @ 11:12am | Report comment
And a Suncorp-esque stadium at Circular Quay or the Domain? Had to pause there for a moment…
January 23rd 2013 @ 3:31pm
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
The monies granted to those suburban clubs by the NSW (when it did have the money to spend),was minimal.Penrith ,Leichhardt token,Campbelltown 1 stadium ,with little cover.Cronulla fed govt grant.minimal improvements in the scheme of things.Manly well they have been lobbying since yonks,and they are still where they were ,so to speak.
The fact these are all rectangular stadiums and all bar one not privately owned,and all capable of being used by 3 codes of football,the Govt should be giving them some priority.Even if the NRL had contributed ,the stadiums are hardly top tier,and the State Govt many times insisted they did not have the money for such expenditure(out of taxpyers’ pockets).The current State govt is only reinforcing the point.
Govt handouts happen despite token amounts paid by codes.The State Govt pays the lion’s share,let’s not kid ourselves.This has happened in other states.
It’s all political in the final analysis Manly and Cronulla are Liberal seats,and the pervious Govt knew that.The current Govt doesn’t have the cash to do anyhting of not today.
The very same reason,the ARLC is building a $225m fund for capital projects etc.
January 26th 2013 @ 8:30am
Progressive League said | January 26th 2013 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Who said the NRL are doing it???
The PNG Governemnt will build the staium as soon as they get a team. They want a stadium for themselves. Some may say its wasted money, those same people said the Olympics was wasted money or Suncorp in Brisabnae was wasted but the reality is the building process and lasting infrastructure are big contributors to growing the local economy and PNG needs all the help it can get to build its economy hence why they allowed BHP to build Ok Tedi mine, it certainly wasnt good for the Fly River and surrounding environment.
The Gold Coast transport problem is due to the coastal population hub and subsequent traffic it is not because of the Titans stadium location. It is a problem many state governments and GC City Councils have tried to solve not for the Titans but because getting around the coastal areas to other areas is difficult and time consuming. There is not a specific rail line for the Titans being built in fact the new light rail goes nowhere near their stadium. The idea of a coastal railway has nothing to do with the NRL it is mainly due to the fact that the Gold Coast is Australia’s 6th largest city and lacks fast moving public transport.
Before you past judgement do your homework or return to Mars!
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:23am
oikee said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Stadiums are the games biggest issue. With the government spending huge amounts on AFL stadiums, placing bigger drains on the country, sports funding is being cut as we speak.
Just today i was reading that the Dragons Roosters opening game has to be interupted and pushed to one end of this huge white elephant because some bands are playing on the same weekend. ?
Madness, and we must be the only code in the world that allows the government to use our code as nothing but a push-around horse-kart.
Because the government wasted alot of money on round fields, we now have to keep playing out of the white elephants for the next 20 years.
The only way to put a stop to this is refuse to play at the white elephants, all codes (union soccer and league) who use this pathetic stadiums for every game, need to pull out, refuse to be used or play at such a wrong ground for rectangle codes,
This country has been treated like fools. Even our captital does not have a decent covered international stadium.
America builds 100 thousand rectangle grounds, we cant even build a 55 thousand stadium for Sydney or Canberra to enjoy.
The Dragons Rabbits game would be better off played in Wagga. Why not, at least they would not plan to have a rock concert the same weekend, madness.
January 23rd 2013 @ 12:09pm
Rob9 said | January 23rd 2013 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
You can’t compare what the US is doing to our market here! There are more people living in Texas, the 2nd most populous state of 50 (almost all with at least 1 million residents +), then there are living in Australia. There market is roughly 13 times larger than ours (that’s a lot bigger). Plus you’ll find the largest NFL venues are around the same size as ANZ anyway (not 100,000). Difference is they sellout 8 times a year (plus playoff games if they make it that far with home game advantage). Meanwhile back in planet Oz where we are, the dogs get a quarter of ANZ’s capacity full.
January 23rd 2013 @ 12:45pm
Australian Rules said | January 23rd 2013 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
oikee
In 2000, the Qld Govt spent $280M on upgrading Suncorp Stadium…for a total of 12,500 new seats.
In 2005, the Qld Govt spent $11M on upgrading Dairy Farmers.
In 2007, the Qld Govt spent $160M on a brand new stadium in Robina.
In 2007, the NSW Govt granted $30M for Hunter Stadium
(with another $40M from NSW Govt for futher upgrades).
In 2008, the NSW Govt granted $6M for Brookvale.
In 2009, the NSW Govt spent $29M to upgrade WIN Stadium.
In 2010, the NSW Govt granted $13 for upgrades at Win Jubilee Stadium.
In 2007, the Vic Govt spent $270M on AAMI Park.
The NRL has never contributed a cent. Your “the govt needs to start spending money on us” attitude…isn’t even close to reality.
January 23rd 2013 @ 12:59pm
Australian Rules said | January 23rd 2013 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
Of course I omitted ANZ Stadium, which received $115M from the NSW Govt.
and some others…
Campbelltown Ovall received $8M in Federal funding.
Toyota Park received $10M in Federal funding.
Leichardt received $3.5M in Federal.
Should I go on?
January 24th 2013 @ 1:46am
peeeko said | January 24th 2013 @ 1:46am | Report comment
thats some interesting information, but i am wondering how someone with the name “australian rules” knows so much about RL funding?
January 23rd 2013 @ 3:44pm
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Please advise with evidence ,that some NRL clubs .have never contributed a cent.Never say never.
Let’s just put things into perspective.
Suncorp.Hosts 3 rectangular codes.Regular usage.
GC Two less Clive plus ru 7s
Dairy Famers.available for soccer,and ru .
Hunter stadium.Two codes regular usage.Eevn a ru test.
Brookvale.nothing to really show for it.Liberal electorate,Labor in power.
Win Stadium ru at times,believe some private monies via Bruce Gordon
Win Jubilee.used sometimes by soccer.
AAMI Park 4 clubs (3 codes) regular usage.There would havebeen no Govt monies for a new stadium,if only the Storm played there.
And the previous Govt needs to also stop wasting money on so called home team domiciled training centres that are rarely used,to con the local council.Nor spend large sums on a stadium ,with a perfectly good one nearby(1 km).
If Govts can waste ,then they must have money to spend.
January 23rd 2013 @ 4:37pm
Dragoon said | January 23rd 2013 @ 4:37pm | Report comment
Yes they provide for rectangular codes but how often – the local codes cant afford the rents for Jubilee and WIN – Sydney FC used Jubilee once…The smaller League grounds get used by big guys paying big rent 13 times a year. Brooky etc AFL grounds will be used by cricket, RAS, Comm Games etc, (Etihasd is used by soccer, NRL RU) Only Suncorp and AAMI have real multiple use. NQ Fury and GC United are defunct you know….
January 23rd 2013 @ 5:47pm
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
So you are quite happy ,with govt waste with large grants for underutilisation.We the people(the taxpayer) have to fork out,regardless of wherever it goes,
Yes RAS use regularly LOL,not even a full season by the major tenant,who decides to spend time in Canberra .A duplication if ever there was one.ANZ within shouting distance. Blacktown when is it used ,money expended a white elephant..
Council grounds get used at times in the off season.
Yes the RAS is being regularly used by cricket,oh wait.
Comm games every 4 years,tests for ru,rl and soccer more often.
I already mentioned that fact by noting Clive’s departure,doesn’t stop ru 7s and tests being played and no where mentioned a soccer team on the NQld.
Parramatta.stadium now utilised full year.Hunter stadium ditto.SFS ditto (3 codes)
And you are telling me the SFS ,should not have had more expenditure for cover.Thsi facility is used by 1 NRL club,1 S15,1 a league and at times Tigers matches.
Codes can put in token amounts,the govts put in the overwhelming amount,that is fact and not deflected.That is regardless of whatever code does it.
January 23rd 2013 @ 6:11pm
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
I want someone to spell out the amount of govt grants(by the previous state govt and carried forward by the current NSW state govt .
IOW the Govt grants to Blacktown AFL training facility rarely utilised.
The RAS grant
The SCG grant which will benefit the Swans.
I suggest it would be more than the grants provided to the rectangular code grounds in NSW during the same period. Meaning regardless of token monies paid for facilities ,the NSW Govt stokes up the lion’s share,which some have difficulty in agreeing with.
January 24th 2013 @ 8:28am
Brewski said | January 24th 2013 @ 8:28am | Report comment
The Australian football facility at Blacktown is not being used ATM, because cricket is using it !!! , but 6 months of the year Australian football uses it.
Gets plenty of use, you just have to openj your eyes.
January 24th 2013 @ 2:20pm
Redb said | January 24th 2013 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
The SCG redevelopment had little to do with the Swans, try the SCG Trust.
January 25th 2013 @ 6:39am
Crosscoder said | January 25th 2013 @ 6:39am | Report comment
C’mon the Blacktown facility is not being used as the facility it was originally intended for GWS regularly for training ,and for which the State Govt hthrew in a large amunt of money,as did the poor rate payers .the mayor got his just rewards as a result of lack of consultation. $17.5m yeah just a snippet of money FHS.
Skoda was used for 6 matches last year.($45m granted).And the RAS uses it for a fornight.
January 25th 2013 @ 6:43am
Crosscoder said | January 25th 2013 @ 6:43am | Report comment
Had little to do with the Swans!.if the Swans had not been one of the major tenants.I suggest the Govt(broke that it was) would not have granted $86m toward the project.They would IMO have granted a lesser figure.
Just as the Vic GOvt would not have built the rectangular stadium, if the Storm was the only tenant.
January 25th 2013 @ 4:35pm
Redb said | January 25th 2013 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
CC,
Point being neither the AFL or Swans pushed for the SCG redevelopment. It was clearly a ground in need of a refit as it holds pride of place in Sydney.
Stadiums need regular crowds, the Swans hold their end up compared to many Sydney NRL teams. However, the SCG Trust was thinking more about cricket than AFL IMO.
January 26th 2013 @ 7:35am
Crosscoder said | January 26th 2013 @ 7:35am | Report comment
With due respect RedB I find it extremely difficult to believe, the presence of the Swans (which helped utilisation) did not have influence on the decision making process ,as to how much the govt would grant to the refurbishment.They would have had some input,as a co- tenant,one would have thought.
To further emphasise my point,right next door,the SFS has been looking at ways of improving conditions for patrons(as most get wet when it rains).this has been an ongoing problem for many years,not just last year.Talk of a retractable roof.Yet no monies have been forthcoming in that regard.I can assure you the SFS is utilised ,many times more than the SCG.
As a further example in yesterday’s SMH referring to plans for a retractable roof for ANZ stadium.Remember this stadium is muti purpose for ALL football codes(that includes AFL),(so much for Skoda).
“the O’Farrell govt from now will not be dipping its hands into into the state coffers.”
Ïn relation to any proposal for a roof at ANZ stadium there is no current proposal before govt,NOR is there FUNDING available at this point in time.”NSW Min of Sport Graham Annesley said.
This coming from the very state Govt who wants to rationalise the stadium issue, so that suburban grounds are not used.What the! Come into Sydney central and put up with the same old set up,no cover.
Surely one can see rl fan frustration.No money available ,but come in anyway.The cupboard is now bare,we have allocated $86m here,$45m there in the space of a year or so
January 23rd 2013 @ 4:59pm
Australian Rules said | January 23rd 2013 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
CC
Every stadium in Australia is a multipurpose venue!
Before today, you’ve always complained that League never got any fed or state govt funding…my post shows that to be complete bollocks.
Dairy Farmers “available for soccer and ru”…Win Jubilee “used sometimes by soccer”…?
grasping at straws a bit?
January 23rd 2013 @ 9:06pm
Crosscoder said | January 23rd 2013 @ 9:06pm | Report comment
OK then I will spell it out,as it appears it has gone into the too hard basket:-
Expenditure by govt.
Supposed broke state govt.
Blacktown ground $17.5m + council funding
Skoda stadium $45m
SCG $86m
Fed Govt
Additional $2m for training facilties at Homebush ( so much for Blacktown.
$50m for SCG.
This for 2 clubs in sydney ,one in existence 12 months.
Games played by GWS at Skoda 6(that;s what I call utiilisation choke.
ACT 3(they receive $300,000 per game to do so)
1 at Blacktown(no wonder the Mayor was rissoled.
1 at ANZ
Swans 3 at ANZ
9 at SCG .
I have never stated rugby league did not receive funding,stop telling blatant porkies.I openly stated the Sharks received $10m thanks to P Costello.I know the Hunter Stadium got govt monies,ditto campbelltown,ditto the Bulldogs training facility,ditto st George.I have never denied it.I am aware of the Titans facility,hell I have visited the place often enough and know the high rent they pay.
My argument has been still is these clubs have been around for yonks,Manly in particular is 3rd world,Parramatta needs more cover as does the SFS,yet the state govt maintained it was broke.
If they had made the additional grants we wouldn’t be having the argument,plus crowds would be greater with cover.
Yet we have a brand new club with minimal head body grant recieve State govt largesse for a stadium with a stadium 1knm away,that uses their new facility 6 times in 2012,with no cricket played there.The mob from the SCG only used that facility 9 times in 2012.
9 NRL clubs in Sydney youngest 46 years old,as opposed to 1 here for 1 year and 1 for 30 years. I think I have a fair idea where the bias lies monetary wise. 3 stadiums for 2 clubs as opposed to stadiums for 9 NRL/1 S15 and 2 A League.
Grasping at straws,really.These stadiums are available any time for any of the rectangular codes ,remembering there are 3 of them.These stadiums get minimum 11 game usage by NRL clubs,with the exception of Tigers and they will have to make some decisions soon.The get more usage than the AFL home grounds do in Sydney,just with rl games.
I repeat one more time,I have no objection for grants to new codes/clubs,my objection is the way govt allocates without looking in depth at the long established clubs,and their genuine concerns.
The proof shows,with the state Govt announcing they want ground rationalisation,because of the lack of funding available.Basically they have stiff armed a few NRL clubs as a result.
January 24th 2013 @ 9:23am
Australian Rules said | January 24th 2013 @ 9:23am | Report comment
I think the NSW Govt has realised that continually throwing $15M here, $30M there…essentially to refurb a stadium for 1 or 2 suburban-based clubs, is not the best use of money longterm.
In terms of Blacktown, I think the money could have been used better. However, (and here’s the bit people don’t get) ….it was never intended to be the home ground. It was designed to be a training base, a base for a junior academy and an admin centre…that’s it. Skoda was always the home ground, that’s why the AFL contributed $12M to it (as you say, a token amount).
Another thing you don’t seem to follow, is that in Australia, Aussie Rules Footy is played on cricket grounds during winter. And these cricket grounds are the most historic and culturally important grounds we have (MCG, SCG, Adelaide Oval etc).
The SCG getting funding from the State Government *is* different from upgrading one of the NRL home grounds.
Lastly, if you think the tens of millions contributed by the AFL towards stadia around the country are “token amounts”…what does that say about the amounts contributed by the NRL?
January 25th 2013 @ 7:13am
Crosscoder said | January 25th 2013 @ 7:13am | Report comment
AR.
If you are going to use that sort of logic,the same can be said for .$45m granted for 1 ground with another one perfectly suited 1km down the road(waste)for 6 games.whilst the other half of the season played elsewhere.
Yet the Govt saw fit to also waste $17.5m on a facility,that is basically ignored by the very team(just arrived in town).That is thebest usage long term,pull the other one.
If the govt considers(as you suggested) money badly spent on rl suburban grounds for clubs established from 47 to 100 years,then on balance they must make the same consideration for the likes of GWS(which they did not).
The money for the SCG $86m by a broke govt,is no different to the likes of the SFS next door,which needs expediture of that nature.That ground has 3 times the utilisaton than the SCG.The Hunter is played on all year around .
Suburban grounds cater for ratepayers and taxpayers alike ie the general public.Many are in growing areas especially in the huge West where rl and soccer dominate.Many of these suburban grounds have been attended by artepayers and taxpayers alike for up to 100 years.
We know the SCG is a far bigger setup,but the Govt had no money remember.I am fully au fait with the fact cricket is played on AR grounds.
I am spelling out the waste /duplication by a Govt who stated it had NO money,ye was able to find it for Blacktown/Skoda.SCG.You understand they had no money!!!!!! You can ramble on about what the AFL contributed,it was a small portion,the Govt who had NO money granted the lion’s share.
You conveniently deflected from the very question of Govt outlays,when they had no money.
Answer a simple question.If a Govt states it has no money,should they waste the money, they supposedly dont have or wait until they do have it.?
Spin it any which way, the money the AFL put in, was a small proportion of the total(regardless of how much you hype it up).
The SFS is a major stadium and was ignored,that is the equivalent of the SCG if you are going to use the SCG being different argument.The ANZ is well suited to AFL,yet teh Govt spent $45m up teh road 1km for an AFL club.Go figure.
All I have read by the flag wavers ,oh the code put in X amount.The argument is about what a broke Govt put in,and how it was used.You have not addressed that question.
January 25th 2013 @ 8:43am
Australian Rules said | January 25th 2013 @ 8:43am | Report comment
You’re constantly referring to the NSW Govt claiming it was broke.
Can you provide a link? Or a link which sets out that state govt funding was diverted from the SFS in order to fund other facilities (such as the SCG)?
January 25th 2013 @ 10:24am
Crosscoder said | January 25th 2013 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Your starting point is Barry O’Farrell when he came into office and his comments re the condition of the state’s finances.Then you can ask Manly rl club,after years of trying why they cant get Govt grants.
Then the Tigers with Leichhardt.The SFS has been screaming out for cover for yonks,it is not a secret.
You do understand the previous State Labor in this state spent beyond its means .It has been well documented,and the same happened in Qld.The lack of funds is hardly a secret,unless we are living on a different planet.The media prior to the last election was on to it.Links??? State finanaces ATT and not much better to date..
Where I did I suggest any money was diverted.I simply gave obvious examples of waste and apparently bias.I would have no idea whether it was diverted and that is not my argument.
My point was simply to note if there was X amount available for x,conversely there should have been Y amount available for Y.If a govt is indeed fair and balanced.And personally don’t car if y’s amount is much less than X.
Please justify,how you can spend $45m on a stadium upgrade for a new club with small crowds,when a perfectly good one is 1km away,not requiring one ounce of additional Govt expenditure.