AFL 2013 season preview: part II
By Myles Stedman, 28 Jan 2013 Myles Stedman is a Roar Guru
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- AFL, Collingwood Magpies, Fremantle Dockers, Geelong Cats
Sydney Swans fans at the AFL Grand Final. (AFL Media/Slattery Media)
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With the AFL season just an agonising two months away, we take our next look at the contenders and pretenders for the 2013 flag, with part two of my 2013 season preview.
Collingwood Magpies
The Collingwood Magpies had another standard year, this time finishing one game away from the MCG. They made some interesting off-season recruits, picking up veterans to help with their young core.
Whilst they did take a step back in the regular season last year, it is clear the Pies will be around as premiership threats for the next decade.
The Magpies continue to show that they are one of the classier clubs in the league, both and on and off the field. It’s a pity I can’t say the same about their supporters.
The Pies’ off-season was an brilliantly underrated one.
Whilst they didn’t make all that much noise with the recruits they bagged, they continued to focus on recruiting for the best of the squad rather than recruiting superstars for the fans or the profile of the club (which doesn’t need much boosting mind you).
One could be as brave to say they picked up some moneyball players in Quentin Lynch, a strong forward/ruckman who can help out in either position when called upon, and Jordan Russell, an underrated, out-of-form backman with the ability to shut down defenders.
They also picked up Ben Hudson to help out their youngsters with the ruck duties. They also added to their young core of potential stars by stealing Ben Kennedy late in the first round.
By the looks of things, Collingwood haters will be back in full force this season to try and bring down the evergreen Magpies.
There’s not too much to look down about at the Lexus Centre. While Nathan Buckley isn’t the coach that Pies fans hoped he’d be, he did an incredible job getting the squad as far as he did in his first year (for whatever credit he gets for it).
If anything, they should be a little bit cut up about Carlton’s new coach, the legendary Mick Malthouse. But if the Blues do anything similar to what they did last year, I’m sure there’ll be no hard feelings.
However, whether winning or losing, fans of the Blues and the Pies will have both rounds 2 and 15 circled in their diaries.
The Collingwood Magpies are one of those sport-defining teams such as the Lakers, the Yankees and the Packers that will compete for the premiership just about every single season.
And they only ever seem to be getting better. They’ve added plenty of valuable players, had their questions about their coach answered, and have plenty of support for the new season behind them. They always do.
It looks like it’ll be another year of us against them.
Prediction: 5th
Essendon Bombers
What on earth does 2013 hold for the Essendon Bombers? I really had to bust out my magic eight-ball for this one.
Out of all the clubs in the AFL, 2013 proves to be biggest for the Bombers. In 2012 they experienced a completely ungraceful fall, from the top of the ladder to 11th, finishing the season with seven losses in a row and a combined 173 points conceded in their last three matches.
Over the off-season, they picked up arguably the biggest recruit of the year, enticing Brendan Goddard away from the beach to come to Windy Hill. In the draft they picked Joe Daniher, who has received mixed reviews. Some call him the best player in a draft for a long time. Some don’t.
There’s no doubt the Bombers’ list is one of the best in football. Stars and potential at every position, and they’ve only added to that by bringing in Mr. Versatile, Brendan Goddard.
He will most likely spend most time in the backline for the Bombers, providing a skilful and veteran link between the backs and the forwards, and is one of the premier players in the competition.
They also drafted Joe Daniher, a ruckman-forward with a who as been described as Kurt Tippett 2.0. Combined with the rest of the Bombers’ list, which includes Brownlow medalist Jobe Watson and breakout midfielder Brent Stanton, suddenly, the Bombers are again looking like that early-season team that made their case for the premiership each week.
Last year, the Bombers fell victim to the soft tissue injury monster. And they were devoured, with the amount of soft tissue injuries experienced tallying over 20.
There was red and black blood everywhere. Most of their key players spent at least a few games out with injury, and when Brownlow medal challenger Brent Stanton went down with an injury, and didn’t return back 100%, the wheels started falling off the challenge.
Injuries in many different areas of the field didn’t help, and if the Bombers want to unleash their potential like they did in the early part of 2012, they’ll need to make sure they’re 100% healthy.
There’s no doubt the Bombers have one of the most talented lists in the comp. If they can keep said talent healthy, then there’s no reason for them to finish outside the top eight.
With a solid group of veterans mixed with some good youngins, the team basically coaches itself.
Their first match of the year, also the first match of the season, against the Adelaide Crows will be a big one in perhaps giving us a glimpse of whether the Bombers will be one to keep an eye on or 2013 easy-beats.
It will probably be somewhere in the middle, but boy I hope they prove me wrong.
Prediction: 9th
Fremantle Dockers
The Fremantle Dockers, the serial overachievers of last year are back and not bigger or better than ever. In fact, they are a rather easy team to review due to the fact that we will find out over the course of the season whether their lack off off-season activity will hurt them or not.
Yes, Freo fans, you did manage to recruit Danyle Pearce, but in a good team, his effectiveness remains to be seen.
But if he does in fact continue his good form from 2012, and integrates himself as a link-up man into Freo’s fairly slow midfield, then they will have themselves a prize recruit. And I hope they do.
The pros here are obvious. Fremantle had a good team in 2012, and they are bringing it back in 2013. Matthew Pavlich, who was supposedly on the decline, had one of, if not his best year last year.
He nearly won the Coleman and made his case for the Brownlow Medal.
Hopefully he can continue his form into this year.
Keep your jaws dropped as Freo also achieved what they did last year much without their brightest star, Nat Fyfe.
His presence was definitely felt in the finals when they shocked Geelong, and if he can stay as a regular-season fixture this year, then he’ll definitely be keeping opposing midfields on their feet.
And what ‘Avatar’ Fyfe lacks in speed, Danyle Pearce makes up for. Ross Lyon should be able to integrate him and improve their midfield further.
However, the Dockers’ strength may also turn out to be their weakness. While teams around them are looking actively to improve, and have, the Dockers have declared faith in their current group.
And why not? They managed to knock off the reigning premiers in their first venture to the finals as a team.
Often the best moves are the ones that aren’t made. But while everyone around them gets better, do they also get better with time, or do they fall behind the pack? A viable case can be made for the latter.
The team’s physical and spiritual leader Matthew Pavlich gets another year older, and is more prone to falling off in production, or injury. If the Dockers do chose this approach over the next few seasons, it may hurt a little more, but over one year, they shouldn’t experience too much backlash.
Freo were a solid team last year, and they were rewarded at year’s end with a thumping of the previous years’ champions in the finals.
Their zeal was unmatched in the finals by everyone not named the Sydney Swans, and they have shown maturity beyond their age.
Matthew Pavlich has blossomed from just being a great player to also being a great leader, and the Dockers have plenty to be positive about. Here’s hoping they have a solid year, and hopefully make some more noise this September.
Prediction: 8th
Geelong Cats
And for my first victim, I give you the Geelong Cats. I must warn you, many out there will not like my review of this team.
But I would not write it if I thought it was not the truth. Geelong will not make the finals this year. They may very well, but I would not be the least bit surprised if they didn’t.
Yes they have a great team, and they are doing well to prepare for future years, but I think they do not have what it takes to make the finals. That said, never count the Cats out.
First, let’s focus on the good: the Cats are moving in the right direction. This season they acquired Hamish McIntosh, Jared Rivers and Josh Caddy. All great acquisitions.
As good as Orren Stephenson was last season, Geelong have brought in an elite-level ruckman to take the reins. McIntosh has also shown capability to go forward and kick goals, which neither Stephenson nor Trent West could manage to do.
Jared Rivers is a good key defender who can give some height up back, and the highly sought-after Josh Caddy magically fell to the hands of the Cats, and shows great promise to be a future star wherever he plays.
With the average age of the three being 25, they all still have plenty of footy left in them, and are all great players. That’s pretty good future planning I’d say.
However, there is some bad news on the horizon for the Cattery. The core players of the team are getting older as we speak, and aside from Josh Caddy, there are few on the list that can qualify as “dominant youngsters”.
Yes this team is built with a lot of experience, but to compete with the dominant teams that I have in my eight, they will need the right mix of youth power, which I don’t believe they have.
Yes, the Cats may end up beating out some of the younger teams for a spot in the finals, but we have already begun to see their steady decline when they were demolished by Freo in the first round of the finals.
Yes Jimmy Bartel can still play like a Brownlow medalist, yes the old dogs can still fire, and yes they have a few young pieces to build around for the future, but it takes more to be successful in this league.
This season, Geelong may not have it in them.
Geelong did some propitious work in the off-season, managing to recruit some good talent to come up the highway to play, which should give Cats fans something to look forward to.
However, this will be a less than typical year for the Cats, who will likely experience a downward slide.
The core that they built around and reached the grand final in 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2011, winning three out of four, has started to fade. Their finals magic has started to disappear.
However, considering how professional a club they have been in the last decade, the Cats should be back on their feet and challenging for the flag once again in a few years time.
Prediction: 11th.
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January 28th 2013 @ 10:30am
gus said | January 28th 2013 @ 10:30am | Report comment
The middle of the table is impossible to predict.
Richmond, Essendon, Carlton, North, Freo all expect top 8 finishes and anything less would be a disappointment. Some might add Brisbane to that list, but for me they are a while off yet.
In addition there are clubs on the way down who will be desperate to cling to the top 8 ie Geelong and to a lesser extent the Saints.
It’s going to be very conjested in the middle and there will be heart break. And having said all this, history tells us there is often a team or two who make dramatic movement up and down the table. Expect any of the supposed mid table clubs to be up there challenging for top 4 with Sydney, Collingwood et al
January 28th 2013 @ 11:20am
Cat-zilla said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:20am | Report comment
You say the cats have “few on the list that can qualify as “dominant youngsters”… I would say Christensen, and menzel could easily qualify, Mitchy d should be ripe, plus the vfl team just took out the grand final.
Losses: Scarlett, stephenson
Gains: McIntosh, rivers, caddy, varcoe, vardy, menzel.
Should be stronger if anything…
January 28th 2013 @ 12:40pm
AllSports said | January 28th 2013 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Pies will finish top of the ladder and the cats around 6th.
February 5th 2013 @ 3:08am
Nathan of Perth said | February 5th 2013 @ 3:08am | Report comment
Top of which ladder?
January 28th 2013 @ 12:56pm
gus said | January 28th 2013 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
The middle of the table is impossible to predict.
Richmond, Essendon, Carlton, North, Freo all expect top 8 finishes and anything less would be a disappointment. Some might add Brisbane to that list, but for me they are a while off yet.
In addition there are clubs on the way down who will be desperate to cling to the top 8 ie Geelong and to a lesser extent the Saints.
It’s going to be very conjested in the middle and there will be heart break. And having said all this, history tells us there is often a team or two who make dramatic movement up and down the table. Expect any of the supposed mid table clubs to be up there challenging for top 4 with Sydney, Collingwood et al
January 28th 2013 @ 2:05pm
Vicboy said | January 28th 2013 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
Wishful thinking. As a Tiger supporter I appreciate you creating space in the 8 for us, but feel both Geelong & Freo have enough youth to keep pushing. Collingwood had a poor run with injuries last year, so could be expected to do as well this year. Although I think Lynch is a waste. Essendon will hardly use Daniher this year – letting him grow into his body. I think they rely on too few, and not sure Goddard is the answer. If he played as a forward: kicking long goals & taking screamers – see GF, yes; but as a quarterback no.
January 28th 2013 @ 2:10pm
jack@hotmail.com said | January 28th 2013 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Have a funny feeling Blues will win Flag without losing a match this year.
March 2nd 2013 @ 7:32pm
russ said | March 2nd 2013 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
hey jack,
don’t take that funny feeling down to the tab
money would be better spent at the doctor’s getting it checked out – could be serious!
( :
January 28th 2013 @ 2:13pm
Marez said | January 28th 2013 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
I agree with the prediction that the cats are dropping off with the likes of Chapman, Corey, Enright and Hunt all getting into their thirties. Also we can’t under estimate the loss of Scarlett who leaves a hole in the back line that will be difficult to fill even with Rivers on the list.
January 28th 2013 @ 10:13pm
Me Too said | January 28th 2013 @ 10:13pm | Report comment
One team from outside the eight can expect to rise – starting last year with a new coach and some new talent they went close in all bar one game. Indeed if you reversed every game in the afl that finished under a two goal margin this team would have finished third. Changing their gameplay to a more attacking one saw them finish as the fourth highest scoring team, with a percentage well inside the top eight.
They were cruelled by twice having to play two interstate games in a row, and having nine six day breaks, including three in a row. This year they will have a year under their belt and be much better for it. Look out!
January 28th 2013 @ 10:51pm
NeeDeep said | January 28th 2013 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
St. Kilda!
January 28th 2013 @ 10:53pm
Dan said | January 28th 2013 @ 10:53pm | Report comment
Agreed, the Saints have been written off by too many, I think they’re still a top 8 chance.
January 29th 2013 @ 12:20pm
TomC said | January 29th 2013 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
I think the Saints’ season was a bit underrated, but it should be pointed out that their percentage and high scores were in large part down to taking full value of their games against Gold Coast and GWS.
Personally, I don’t think the Saints are replacing the quality they are losing quickly enough. Their top five possession winners last season were Hayes, Goddard, Montagna, Dal Santo and Gram. Two of those five are gone, the others will be 33, 29 and 29 by the time the season starts. I think it’s fair to say they’ve reached their peak.
The issue the Saints had in 2012 was a lack of depth in key positions, and while Tom Lee is a sensible acquisition it’s unlikely he’ll make a big difference in one season, so I can’t really see how St Kilda are going to better last year’s performance.
January 29th 2013 @ 1:42pm
NeeDeep said | January 29th 2013 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Yep, agree Tom. But, you also have to note that they never got thumped all year. OK, Geelong by about 7 goals was the worst performance and even in that game, they were in the hunt at 3/4 time. The big knock is that they didn’t beat anyone above them on the ladder, other than early in the year when they rolled Sydney.
That to me, seems to indicate a little bit of a “belief” problem, more than anything else.
The big thing that I keep seeing is that Esendon are going to be the big improver. Well, gee, I don’t know if BJ is going to turn a 12 goal margin around, all on his own. After all, that’s what the Saints belted the Bombers by in round 15. Yes – they had injuries and so did the Saints. No tall defenders, McEvoy was back after injury, but they lost Stanley & Blake at the same time. Big losses to Geelong, the Hawks, Carlton (by 16 goals) and then Richmond & Collingwood to end the season. Gee, I still reckon there’s a lot of work to be done out at Windy Hill.
Whilst the Saints lost 5 games by 13 points or less. Yes – they are a little older and Goddard going wont help matters, but then again, if he didn’t have his heart in it, it’s probably the best result for all parteis.
So, don’t write the Saints of just yet – would like to see a bit of the NAB Cup before I give anyone a tick, or put a line through them.
January 30th 2013 @ 10:32am
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 10:32am | Report comment
PS: Goddard was also out, suspended, for the round 15 clash with Essendon.
PPS: The oldest current AFL list is the Sydney Swans at an average age of just under 25 and an average games played of 86, per player. The 3rd oldest list is Hawthorn, at 24.5 years, with an average games played of 78, per player. St. Kilda sit in 2nd place with just over 24.5 average age and 77 games per player, experience. Not too bad a company they’re keeping!
January 30th 2013 @ 10:45am
Redb said | January 30th 2013 @ 10:45am | Report comment
“The big thing that I keep seeing is that Esendon are going to be the big improver. Well, gee, I don’t know if BJ is going to turn a 12 goal margin around, all on his own”
Shocker of a year for the Bombers in the end, if they can limit ‘over training’ and last the season, Goddard wont be doing it on his own.
Put Goddard into Essendon in that the first 10 rounds last year. There’s a thought
January 30th 2013 @ 11:05am
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Yep – they would have looked far more impressive against Gold Coast. Probably would have shaken them off early in the last quarter, instead of grabbing the money, close to the post. Probably would have helped them beat Melbourne, as well!
They lost to Collingwood & Sydney, by a few points. St. Kilda beat Sydney and loss to Collingwod by a goal in a rather contentious finish, in round 19 when the whips were cracking.
The Bombers ran into some decent competition, finally, over those last 10 or 12 weeks and other than a good win over the Dockers, to sit next to the win over West Coast, early in the year, I really don’t see a lot to get excited about.
January 30th 2013 @ 12:04pm
Redb said | January 30th 2013 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Gold Coast? – smart ar$e
Well the ANZAC Day game was one of the highlights for me. We lost to Collingwood by 1 point. Cracking game that showed what the Bombers are capable of with their young list.
We wont lose to Melbourne this year.
January 30th 2013 @ 12:35pm
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
We pumped them by 16 goals – twice!
My point is people tend to get ahead of themselves at this time of year. We start talking up some teams and write off others. Everyone thinks just because Brendan Goddard walked out on the Saints and signed up with the Bombers, Essendon are going to be the big improvers and the Saints are on the decline.
I’m sorry, but I don’t believe 1 player makes so much difference – either way. If you compare the performances of the 2 sides in question, you would struggle to make your case, based on last years form – simple as that.
It’s like comparing 2 race horses, who have raced in similar company and comparing their best times and then having the poorer performer start at shorter odds than the better performed horse. I wouldn’t see many bookies working on that theory, but then again, most of them have the Bombers making the eight and the Saints dropping to 12th. Go figure!
Anyway, if you want to resort to name calling, no problems. Just ignore the facts and sensible discussion and dazzle me with your immense vocabulary.
January 30th 2013 @ 1:05pm
TomC said | January 30th 2013 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
I think you are simplifying the argument quite a bit, NeeDeep.
I see the Saints as a team on the ‘decline’ partly because players have left, but mostly because many of their best players are at an age where their best football is behind them. Hayes, Dempster, Dal Santo, Montagna, Fisher, Riewoldt, Milne and Jones will all be 29 or over when season 2013 starts.
January 30th 2013 @ 1:30pm
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
Which gives the Saints the 2nd oldest list, behind Sydney and only a handful of days in front of the Hawks, who have the 3rd oldest list – as I stated above.
Jude Bolton and Adam Goodes are 33, Rhyce Shaw 31, LRT, Marty Mattner & Teddy Richards are all around 30 and Ryan O’Keefe is 32. Whilst at Hawthorn, Shaun Burgoyne, Josh Gibson, Brent Gerra, Brian Lake, Sam Mithell, Michael Osborne and Brad Sewell, are either 30, or will turn 30 this year.
Is it only at select clubs were age is an issue?
I remember Geelong winning a flag a couple of years back – “Too old, too slow, too bloody good!”
It’s a long season – start crossing teams off at your own peril.
January 30th 2013 @ 2:01pm
Redb said | January 30th 2013 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Needeep,
Do I assume your profile pic is a good likeness
So your a little butthurt about losing Goddard I see it now, I thought you were a Melbourne supporter with your handle.
Your game of footy maths – we beat them you lost to them and vice-versa 1 + 3 – 2 = 6 doesn’t wash. Essendon beat Carlton on a roll, West Coast, lost to Collingwood by a point and Sydney by narrow margin despite the supposedly soft draw.
Essendon then fell away badly as soft tissue injuries took their toll late in the season, even those not injured were playing hurt. Is that good football management? – no! We’ve made a few changes to the Football Dept and in the future will go from the worst facilties in the league to one of the best.
Goddard is not everything but sure will help. Bank on it.
Oh yeah keep shining that one Cup
January 30th 2013 @ 2:30pm
TomC said | January 30th 2013 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
NeeDeep, I would argue that Sydney and Hawthorn have considerably more talent amongst their younger players than the Saints do.
You might disagree, but personally I would rate Kennedy, Jetta, Hanneberry, Reid and Parker, or Suckling, Rioli, Whitecross, Breust and Shiels; ahead of Steven, McEvoy, Geary, Armitage and Saad.
Its not the average age of the Saints’ list that concerns me. Its that most of their best players are at an age where their output is likely to start to decline.
January 30th 2013 @ 2:31pm
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Profile pic – really just trying to make you feel at home. He’s probably got a few more clues than you.
Yeah – logic. Why bother. Let’s just all jump on the Bomber band-wagon, for no real reason. All sides had injuries last year and most will just get on with the job and not make a big song and dance about it.
Last year you guys wanted to “bulk up”, for finals footy and now you’re telling everyone one that your “slimming down”, to add pace? More excuses coming – I can see it now.
Goddard will help by taking up a tag which should free up somebody like Heppell. I’d be putting more faith in a bloke like him, if I was at Windy Hill.
Anyway, cheers for the witty repartee.
PS: I did discuss the Melbourne tanking issue with you, as I really am a supporter of the game, with a soft spot for the underdog. Hence, I follow the Saints, but also enjoy watching the Bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne and even Richmond, have their moments in the sun.
PPS: I noted you dropped off on the tanking discussion when you realised your argument was flawed. Probably a good idea to do the same here.
January 30th 2013 @ 2:39pm
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
Hey Tom – yeah, look, I probably agree with you. Certainly Ross didn’t play many youngsters, but when you have a full list to pick from, regularly, stability does have some appeal.
It’s just one of those points where we can keep on going and finding more “reasons” (theoretical) and “statistics” (facts) to support our relative positions. And I understand, facts sometimes don’t mean @#$% when the real game starts.
As I said, all along, perhaps everyone should slow down a little on pumping up certain teams tyres and wrtiting others off, all together, before a ball has even been bounced.
January 30th 2013 @ 3:00pm
Redb said | January 30th 2013 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
I think we know your a little upset about Goddard and its clouding your judgement on the Bombers and the Saints.
I estimated Essendon would finish about 6-8th and generally it seems most agree with me if you read the other comments from non Essendon folk so logicially speaking you should give up.
As for the tanking debate I think you must be suffering from Relevance Deprivation Syndrome, not every post has to be responded to, sometimes you let a comment stand.
January 30th 2013 @ 3:12pm
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Actually Red, I have made the point elsewhere, that BJ going is probably a good result for everyone. He didn’t have his heart in it at St. Kilda and his sulking may have eventually had a negative impact on the rest of the squad. Just hope for your sake, everything is “just right” for him at Bomber-land and he can actually be “happy” and turn in some solid performances.
Checked the bookies this morning and they have Essendon 9th – I think earlier I may have suggested 8th. Anyway, I think as I mentioned very early on, both Essendon & St. Kilda are in a group of 5 sides – North, Carlton & Richmond being the others – who will probably fight it out for 8th spot. I have doubts about North, as I think they have a harder draw this year, but the other 4 teams are very close. However, every stat I bring up to support the Saints as a “legitimate” contender, seems to be shrugged off as irrelevant, yet everyone is raving about the Bombers – why? That’s all I’m suggesting………… I don’t get it.
So far as math goes – you can look at the numbers any way you like and it’s not easy to make a case for Essendon, over St. Kilda.
Personally, I have no idea out of those 4, who will make it and who wont – especally at this time of year. And if you reckon you do know – you’re a genius. All hail, Guru!!!
Now, as you rightly pointed out (apologies – my mistake) I will just let that comment stand!
January 30th 2013 @ 3:26pm
Redb said | January 30th 2013 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
So basicially Needeep your jealous Essendon is getting so much attention. RDS.
I haven’t commented either way on St Kilda.
January 30th 2013 @ 3:48pm
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
Red – you haven’t made one intelligent comment about anything. It’s just all “opinion” with no evidence. You really probably are the one suffering from RDS. At least I’m backing up what I’m saying with some facts and figures. Your just shooting the breeze and flapping your gums.
I get it now – you’re my ex-wife!
You know everything, but have no logic to support your arguments, you’re never wrong and you need to have the last word.
Kewl – understand.
January 30th 2013 @ 3:58pm
Redb said | January 30th 2013 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
Nee,
This is going nowhere fast.
I have not shied away from Essendon’s Jekyll and Hyde 2012 season – which is fact.
This whole site is about opinion, get a grip.
January 30th 2013 @ 4:11pm
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 4:11pm | Report comment
Well, you dropped the “smart ar$e” label, early on. That was inciteful, on your part. At no stage have I resorted to name calling. I have tried to discuss facts and you seemed to want to stir the pot over Brendan Goddard. Honestly – who cares!
Then you just chose to disagree with eveyrhting I was pointing out. As my ex would put it – “you’re being particularly obtuse”. You dodged the lot and made a few snide remarks about Goddard, cited the old injury argument (excuse) and the fact St. Kilda has won only 1 flag. Yes – the site is about opinion, but also healthy debate. Debate implies the use of facts and figures as well as opinion, which you are certainly entilted to.
You know something – my favourite all time VFL / AFL player is the great Simon Madden. As a fellow ruckman and roughly the same age, I admired the way he played the game – tough but fair.
Good luck to the Bombers for 2013 – I know they will be thereabouts, which is what I have said, all along.
January 30th 2013 @ 4:23pm
Redb said | January 30th 2013 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Olive branch.
NeeDeep,
I thought the Gold Coast comment was a bit too cute. GC are hardly the benchmark in any serious footy discussion hence the comment. I hereby retract & apologise.
I spent a whole basketball season with Simon Madden as a fellow Dad as our daughters played for the Tigers U16. Great bloke off the field had time for everyone including yours truly and my constant questions.
It was the 2004 season and he was in the box with Kevin Sheedy – pure gold for a footy fan. His insights into the ‘Line in the sand’ game against Hawthorn were truly fascinating. As a Bomber fan at the game I was pretty incensed at Brereton’s inspired antics by the Hawks that day, he said the box was cool, calm and collected, their biggest concern – injuries.
cheers
p.s. the other Dad in the team was Phil Krakouer. Footy heaven.
January 30th 2013 @ 4:51pm
NeeDeep said | January 30th 2013 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
Olive branch shared – cheers Red.
January 29th 2013 @ 8:53am
Redb said | January 29th 2013 @ 8:53am | Report comment
Not sure about all that. Who has suggested Joe Daniher is not up to the challenge, link? Not sure I agree he is Kirk Tippett 2.0 either. Too early to judge but he has greater potential than Tippett.
Collingwood – top 4. Ball is a massive inclusion.
Essendon – 6-8th.
Fremantle – 4-5th.
Geelong top 4. Completely off with this assessment, Geelong have rebuilt.
January 29th 2013 @ 12:06pm
Brian said | January 29th 2013 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Hi Redb. So far you have Woods, Geelong, Freo & Adelaide all in the top 5 with Essendon 6-8. I agree on Essendon btw but who’s missing out. Which 2 out of Syd, Haw & WCE do you have clinging to the bottom of the 8 or worse if Carlton or Richmond are in?
January 29th 2013 @ 12:37pm
Redb said | January 29th 2013 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
These are just indications of where they see them on potential, injuries will take their course and relegate to eventual ladder position.
10-12 sides have the potential to make the 8.
Geelong or Collingwood are interchangeable.
Sydney the probable slider – premiership hangover, Goodes err not as good.
January 30th 2013 @ 10:36pm
Floyd Calhoun said | January 30th 2013 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
‘Ball is a massive inclusion’?! he’s OK, but let’s not get carried away here. I wouldn’t be putting the sheep station on Geelong top 4 either. They may have rebuilt to an extent, but others have been building as well. Scarlett is a big loss. A quarter of their best line up is one more year past their best.
January 29th 2013 @ 12:11pm
TomC said | January 29th 2013 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
It’s really starting to bug me how the word ‘moneyball’ is being used to describe player movements, like Lynch and Russell. How are they moneyball acquisitions? Are they particularly good in some key statistical indicator that I don’t know about? And surely Clinton Young is a more notable acquisition than Ben Hudson onto the rookie list?
What strikes me most about the Collingwood preview is the absence of the following names: Swan, Pendlebury, Beams, Sidebottom, Thomas and Ball. Personally I think any discussion about the Magpies’ chances should focus on that extraordinary midfield, so full of elite players it puts you in mind of Geelong of recent years, Brisbane a decade ago, or even West Coast in the early 90s. A midfield of that quality should be able to cover up any possible flaws in other parts of the ground. For that reason, I agree at least with Myles that Collingwood are genuine premiership chances. My biggest concern frankly is whether a neophyte like Buckley knows how to get the most out of this champion team he inherited. If they finish anywhere lower than fourth I think serious questions should be asked about this succession plan.
I also agree that Essendon are a difficult side to predict in 2013. Their best football in 2012 was as good as anyone’s. Unfortunately their worst was pretty bloody bad. One three game patch in the middle of the season best sums it up, I think. After an inexplicable loss to Melbourne, they were totally impotent for three quarters against the eventual premiers before storming home to almost pinch an unlikely victory. One week later they had a rare win over the highly rated Dockers in Perth. How can one team’s fortunes change so much in the space of two weeks? Heck, in the space of two hours against Sydney. Finding that consistency will be the big challenge in 2013, but acquiring another quality midfielder in Goddard and getting a better run with injuries should help them find their best form more often than not. For that reason I’d expect them to finish a little higher than Myles, maybe 6th or 7th.
I said in the last discussion that my concern with the Dockers was that they probably don’t have enough genuinely top line players to compete with the top four teams, and I stand by that. I’d argue that once you get past Pavlich, McPharlin, Fyfe, Barlow, Sandilands and maybe Mundy, the quality thins out considerably. The rest of the midfield is mostly made up of honest workers. Pearce and De Boer were impressive at times, but I just don’t think they have the talent to be superstars. Hill and Walters do, so hopefully they’ll keep developing as footballers. All the same, the Fremantle list doesn’t look like it has the quality to push further up the ladder just yet, and I think it’ll take at least another season for Ross Lyon’s gameplan to be as effective as it can be. For that reason, I’d have the Dockers just outside the eight in 2013.
I also tend to agree with Myles on the Cats (although what on earth is the significance of the average age of Rivers, McIntosh and Caddy?). They have a team packed with ageing superstars like Chapman, Johnson, Bartel, Kelly, Enright and co, but it seems that for all of them the average output is dropping, and the big game winning matches that used to be common for that group are becoming a bit rarer every few months. Now they appear to have a midfield that largely relies on Selwood, and midfields that rely heavily on one player rarely do better than mid-table. They’ve recruited like they expect to be pushing the top four again, and that gives me pause because they have a lot of smart people managing that footy club, but to me they look like a team on a steady decline. Myles has predicted them to finish 11th and I think that’s in the right ballpark.
As an aside, I’m not sure what qualifies a player to be considered a ‘dominant youngster’, but I think Steven Motlop could certainly become a dominant player if he gets more time in the midfield. Very exciting young talent.
Sorry for the essay.