Best Australian ODI team 1877-1970
Roar Guru One Day Internationals (ODIs) began by accident in January 1971, so the official line goes. Australia and England had tossed to see who batted first in the third Test in Melbourne and also named their 12th men before the heavens opened up and the game was ultimately abandoned.
These two facts, the tossing of the coin and naming of 12th men caused consternation for years as arguments raged back and forth as to whether this constituted a start to the Test despite not a single ball being bowled.
Fortunately sanity eventually prevailed and the Test was declared to have never taken place.
Meanwhile, back in Melbourne the authorities decided to play a limited overs (8 ball x 40 overs) fixture on what would have been the last day of the Test and thus a legend was born.
ESPN selected its Australian greatest ODI team back in 2007 and in a recent post, I updated the selections.
However, I now intend to cast my eye back in time and consider a possible best Australian team from 1877 to 1970 that might have been worthy of representing Australia in ODIs. I actually found most of the first team selections to be quite obvious.
Here’s my all-time first XI ODI.
Victor Trumper, b. 1877
Right hand bat, useful right arm medium bowler. Born for one day cricket, he would have been a huge delight and was always entertaining. People would have paid money just to watch the magical artistry of this batting master.
Charlie (GG) Macartney, b. 1886
Right hand bat, slow left arm orthodox bowler. Once scored a Test century before lunch in 1926 at age 40. Nicknamed Governor General for his imperious domination of bowlers. Another who would have thrived in the shortened game.
Don Bradman (c), b. 1908
Right hand bat. What’s to say? Bradman scored his runs no matter the occasion or state of the game. Might well have destroyed one day cricket before it had progressed too far, had it begun in his day!
Neil Harvey, b. 1928
Left hand bat. Another who suffered from comparison to Bradman but nevertheless was able to be his own man. On his day he was as good as almost any great batsman.
Stan McCabe, b. 1910
Right arm bat, right arm medium bowler. Bradman himself reckons McCabe played a couple of the best Test innings he’d seen. His all-round abilities would have been useful in the one day game.
Keith (Nugget) Miller (vc), b. 1919
Right hand bat, right arm fast bowler. Made for one day cricket. Whether batting, bowling or fielding, you suspect Nugget would always have been involved.
Don Tallon (wk), b. 1916
Right hand bat, wicket-keeper. Much better batsman than given credit for and quite arguably our best-ever “pure” wicket-keeper. He would have been worth his weight in gold.
Alan Davidson, b. 1929
Left hand bat, left arm fast medium bowler. Another dynamo cricketer whether batting, bowling or fielding. Being a leftie gives his team tremendous variety.
Ray Lindwall, b. 1919
Right hand bat, right arm fast bowler. Strong as an ox, hugely athletic cricketer who would have imposed himself on the one day game. Played first grade rugby league for St. George before concentrating on cricket.
Bill (Tiger) O’Reilly, b. 1905
Left hand bat, right arm legbreak and googly bowler. Bowled his leggies at medium pace with a fast bowler’s aggression. He would have eaten any batsman who didn’t come prepared for a contest.
Fred (Demon) Spofforth, b. 1853
Right hand bat, right arm fast medium bowler. Long before McGrath came along, there was Spofforth with his unerring accuracy, subtle variations and consummate skill. Our first great fast bowler.
How good is this line-up? Bats down to nine with Bradman basically two batsmen in one. Six guys who can bowl pace to varying degrees and two spinners, plus outstanding fielders in every conceivable position.
As always, to appreciate how good the best XI is, it’s always instructive to see who made the second XI.
Bob Simpson, b. 1936
Right hand bat, right arm legbreak and googly bowler. Best-ever first slip fieldsman/catcher. Became the coaching guru of one day cricket. Superb batsman and all-round cricketer.
Arthur Morris, b. 1922
Left hand bat. Attacking opener made for one day cricket. Bradman always chose him in his Australian selections.
Bill Murdoch (wk), b. 1854
Right hand bat, wicket-keeper. Australia’s first great batsman, possessing quick footwork and subtle wrists. More than competent wicket-keeper.
Norm O’Neill, b. 1937
Right hand bat, useful right arm legbreak bowler. Suffered from being tagged the “next Bradman”, which in any case gives a clue to his quality batting.
Jack Ryder, b. 1889
Right hand bat, right arm medium bowler. Tall and aggressive, his all-round skills would have been suited to the one-day game.
Jack Gregory, b. 1895
Left hand bat, right arm fast medium bowler. Once scored a Test century in 1921 in just 70 minutes. A magnificent athlete and arguably our next best all-rounder after Miller.
Warwick (Big Ship) Armstrong, b. 1879
Right hand bat, right arm legbreak and googly bowler. Before his weight ballooned upwards, he was an athletic and energetic cricketer. Powerful and aggressive in everything he did.
Monty Noble (c), b. 1873
Right hand bat, right arm medium and offbreak bowler. Considered by sports historian Jack Pollard to be the best test captain Australia had produced up to 1995 (according to a book published that year). A superb all-rounder.
Richie Benaud (vc), b. 1930
Right hand bat, right arm legbreak and googly bowler. Before he became a revered TV commentator, he was an outstanding all-rounder and captain of Australia.
Charles (Terror) Turner, b. 1862
Right hand bat, right arm fast medium bowler. Was considered so close in ability to Demon Spofffoth that they nicknamed him Terror. Possessed great variation.
Albert (Tibby) Cotter, b. 1884
Right hand bat, right arm fast bowler. Before Jeff Thomson, there was Cotter who bowled with the javelin-like catapult action. Tragically died in the Light Horse charge at Beersheba in 1917.
What’s to say about this so called second team? There is genuine batting down to no. 9, four guys who can bowl pace, four guys who can bowl spin and Noble who can bowl both pace and spin.
The side has plenty of good fielders, especially Simpson and Gregory.
Unfortunately unable to find a place for either all-rounders George Giffin and Sam Loxton, batsmen Johnny Taylor and Vic Richardson, offie Hugh Trumble, leggie Clarrie Grimmett or paceman Ted McDonald.
Over to you, Roarers!
I used to think I was a pretty good rugby lock, but now realise I was deluded. My nickname is a truncation of my surname, so I'm not Arabic - phew! However, sometimes I imagine myself as a Beau Geste in the French Foreign Legion, fighting evil, righting wrongs, promoting good and rescuing damsels in distress.
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January 28th 2013 @ 8:16am
Allanthus said | January 28th 2013 @ 8:16am | Report comment
Hi Sheek
This is a nice idea and thanks for putting it together.
I note that Warwick “The Big Ship” Armstrong was indeed a big unit, tipping the scales at a whopping 133kg, making Mark Cosgrove look like Kate Moss…
Part of the fun is imagining what these guys would have been like under current day conditions – not sure how Warwick would have held up batting with say Dean Jones…
January 28th 2013 @ 8:25am
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Hi Allanthus,
Very true re Armstrong. But as I pointed out above he wasn’t always the huge unit he turned into. At the beginning of his career he was around 10st & at the end a whopping 20st.
Yeah, it’s fun to speculate & I’m sure there were fringe test players (Sam Loxton perhaps) who would have been champion one-day players.
January 28th 2013 @ 8:55am
Allanthus said | January 28th 2013 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Not unlike most of us Sheek. As a kid I was held back from playing rugby against my own age group because I was too light. But that certainly hasn’t been an issue for a while now….
January 28th 2013 @ 8:58am
WW said | January 28th 2013 @ 8:58am | Report comment
My eyes deceive me. no Bill Ponsford who had a superior record and reputation over at least mccartney?
January 28th 2013 @ 9:13am
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 9:13am | Report comment
Hi WW,
Keeping in mind this is a ODI team, not a test team.
From what I understand Ponsford was a run accumulator, as opposed to a thrashing machine.
January 28th 2013 @ 9:51am
WW said | January 28th 2013 @ 9:51am | Report comment
i think you are struggling for reason
I have never heard anyone criticise his run scoring rate. i have read many times that for a big man he was nimble of feet, was great against spin bowling, had a massive bat named bertha and that he played extremely well through the on side and had a great cut shot.
ponsford averaged 48 in test cricket, averaged 65 in first class cricket and is one of only 2 players to ever score 400 twice in first class cricket and the only player to twice break the world record for the highest first class score.
he and bradman still hold the record for the highest australian partnership… in that innings for example ponsford out scored bradman in the end, but the partnership was even in terms of the rate of scoring, with the pair bringing up their milestones in almost excatly the same time.
he is also someone that played for the national baseball side……
i think you’ve made a massive error here sheek. its okay to admit when one is wrong.
January 28th 2013 @ 10:03am
WW said | January 28th 2013 @ 10:03am | Report comment
just found an article that stated that one of his 400 innings heis scoring rate was 53 per hour. if we use the modern standard of 2 hours per session thats a 106 per session….
if we use this inning as a bench mark and the notion that the normal rate of 15 overs equal one hour… if he batted for a 50 over odi he’d have amassed 189 runs att his rate of scoring.
sheek you carry yourself as some kind of hsitory buff of the game, yet you fail to include one of the greats of the game in reputation and record???
then when its pointed out you make statements that are untrue???
whats doing!
January 28th 2013 @ 11:12am
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:12am | Report comment
WW,
Obviously I was wrong, uppercut self-administered.
January 28th 2013 @ 11:22am
WW said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:22am | Report comment
not to worry…it happens… we all make mistakes but we must always admit when we are wrong.. thats part of what makes us men not boys..
in terms of australian cricket ponsford is up there as one of our best ever… and i’d hate for the younger roarers to forget about him when discussing the past greats of the game.
he was certainly our greatest right handed opening bat after all.
he’d have been as dominant in odi’s as anyone you’ve named apart from bradman IMHO.
January 28th 2013 @ 11:47am
Jason said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:47am | Report comment
WW, who would you drop for Ponsford?
January 28th 2013 @ 11:55am
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Jason,
At the risk of further incurring WW’s wrath, I still wouldn’t change the opening combos in either the A or B side, because we are talking one-dayers, not tests.
A comparison of sorts can be made with Hayden & G.Chappell with the ‘modern’ ODI team as opposed to the ‘ancient’ ODI team, for simplicity.
Hayden is the best test opener Australia has produced since 1970, but can’t make the ODI team. Chappell is our second best ever test batsman after Bradman, but he can’t make the ODI team either.
However, it was certainly remiss of me to not even mention Ponsford at all in my post. Ponsford is most definitely among the top three best openers we’ve produced at test level.
January 28th 2013 @ 11:57am
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:57am | Report comment
WW – all true. We certainly can’t have young Roarers retaining false perceptions.
January 28th 2013 @ 1:01pm
WW said | January 28th 2013 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
so you are being disingenuous!
ponsford (who was picked in the team of the century!) would be ahead of everyone in this side bar bradman.
the question is not ‘who would i drop for ponsford’
the question who would make the side before him… bradman…thats about it.
January 28th 2013 @ 1:20pm
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
WW,
I’m not disagreeing with you re Ponsford’s status as a test batsman, but we are talking one-dayers, thus the parameters are slightly different.
January 28th 2013 @ 2:00pm
WW said | January 28th 2013 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
how can you possibly say ponsford was run accumulator when he scored so quickly and so big. his record speaks for itself plus all anecdotal evidence suggest he’d be the first opener picked for this side you’ve put together.
he scored quickly, he was a unit, he was unorthodox, he made big hundreds, he averaged more than any of these players bar bradman and scored his centuries at a better rate than any of them again bar bradman… 47 centuries from 160 fc matches…. 7 centuries from 29 tests whereas for example Victor Trumper scored 8 centuries from 48 tests
you keep harping back to him no being a odi player. what are you basing this on?
if you look at arthur morris’ record.. its almost as good…. but its still not as good. if you look at trumper and macartney’s record… they were no where near as good, and there is no evidence that they scored their runs at all quicker in general. yes they scored quick but so did ponsford. Neither was bob simpson’s record anywhere near ponsfords and frankly simpson’s suitability to odi cricket is a laughable notion. his 311 took him 13 hours as an example. thats about 23 runs an hour. where as i pointed out it was not uncommon for posnford score at a rate of DOUBLE that.
in fact a quick look on espn. if you add the amount of runs scored by bob simpson when he scored his 10 centuries from his 62 matches (ponsford scored 7 centuries from half the amount of tests) and you work out his scoring rate per hour it works out as 25.5 runs per hour whn he was at his best or about 51 runs per session.
bill ponsford sequivalent record of runs scored per hour when scoring test hundreds….32.9 or about 66 per session.
January 28th 2013 @ 2:49pm
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Okay WW,
Let’s get back to Jason’s simple question:
“WW, who would you drop for Ponsford?”
Trumper? Macartney? Morris?
What am I basing my selections on? What I’ve read, anecdotal evidence & perception. You have correctly alerted me to the fact that Ponsford was a faster scoring batsman than I previously perceived.
But Trumper, Macartney & Morris were known dashers. the history books say so.
Ponsford’s test & first-class record is of little help here. We’re not talking test teams, we’re talking ODI teams.
Look at the Australian greatest ODI team announced in 2007. Neither M.Waugh, not Jones, nor Bevan, nor Symonds would be mentioned when discussing the best test cricketers of all time, or even more particularly 1970 to the present.
But as ODI players, it’s a different story.
Anyway, make the call – who are you going to drop for Ponsford?
Drop Trumper for Ponsford? Drop Macartney for Ponsford?
I don’t claim to be right, because this is purely a fantasy exercise. You have as much chance of being right as I might.
So make the call, tell me your team………..
January 28th 2013 @ 5:32pm
Jason said | January 28th 2013 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Strike rates in test cricket:
Trumper 67
Macartney 58
Harvey less than 50
McCabe 61
Ponsford less than 50
January 29th 2013 @ 4:51pm
WW said | January 29th 2013 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
there are no accurate stats for strike rates from those days! most games balls were not counted.
January 29th 2013 @ 5:52pm
Jason said | January 29th 2013 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
Yes there are. You can reconstruct strike rates from the scorebooks to a very high degree of accuracy.
January 30th 2013 @ 10:47am
Jason said | January 30th 2013 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Further to this, it seems that Ponsford’s test strike rate was about 46 and Harvey’s just under 50.
January 28th 2013 @ 9:05am
Johnno said | January 28th 2013 @ 9:05am | Report comment
This is one for the purists . I don’t have any knowledge to contribute on this. A good article sheek. I have never seen an article on this subject like this in Australia ever , very original , a timeless article. Good work sheek.
January 28th 2013 @ 9:14am
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Thanks Johnno,
I DO try to think outside the normal spheres of ops occasionally!
January 28th 2013 @ 9:10am
Jason said | January 28th 2013 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Hi sheek.
Nice work. I think your top 6 is spot on. Trumper had a sr of 65 in the era of uncovered pitches. He would have been brilliant at Odis. Ditto The “Governer General” who used to hold the world record for most runs in a day in first class cricket until some guy called Lara beat it.
Bradman, McCabe, Harvey and Miller pick themselves.
I’ll probably disagree with you on the keeper. Although Tallon is known as our best ever gloveman, Murdoch was the first player to score a test double century. So I think his good enough keeping gets him in.
Also, with Macartney and McCabe being decent test bowlers in their own right, I think Spofforth is a luxury. I’d be tempted to add another spinner, probably Richie given he once scored a 78 minute test ton after being scoreless for the first 15 minutes. However, if you wanted the variety of an offie, I’d go with Hugh Trumble who was easily our greatest finger spinner and a test average of nearly 20 batting at number 8 at the turn of the century pitches suggests he could hold a bat as well. He once scored over 1000 runs on an Ashes tour.
One other name missing from the discussion is George Giffen, the Australian “WG Grace” who was the first player to do the 1000/100 test double.
January 28th 2013 @ 9:21am
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Hi Jason,
Re Murdoch for Tallon, I did give that quite a deal of consideration. In the end, I decided the team lacked nothing for all-rounders, so having a specialist keeper wouldn’t weaken the team any. Especially since Bradman is ALWAYS equal to two batsmen! And Tallon could bat anyway.
Re Spofforth, again I thought a bit about this, but concluded, once again since there were plenty of all-rounders, I could select a specialist paceman. Also why I chose O’Reilly as a specialist spinner.
With Miller, Davidson & Lindwall all genuine all-rounders, & Macartney & McCabe quasi all-rounders, there’s no lack of variety of options in the team.
Giffen caused me some angst & probably on reflection I should have him in my B team. Yeah Benaud only in the B team & Trumble no guernsey, it just highlights the enormous depth we had in the past.
January 28th 2013 @ 9:32am
Jason said | January 28th 2013 @ 9:32am | Report comment
I seem to recall Alan McGilvray doing a very similar exercise in one of his books. McGilvray of course had the great advantage of having seen all the players from Macartney onwards but also seeing how ODI cricket had developed.
At a guess I reckon you probably have 9 players the same in the first XI – certainly the top 6. I’ll see if I can dig it up.
January 28th 2013 @ 9:45am
sheek said | January 28th 2013 @ 9:45am | Report comment
Thanks Jason,
It would be instructive to know who McGilvray thought would make good one-day players. I wasn’t aware of such a team.
January 28th 2013 @ 11:49am
Jason said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:49am | Report comment
I’ve just realized that I lent the McGilvray book i was thinking about to Vinay for an article he was writing just before he passed. I will have to ask Pat to see if she knows where it is.
January 28th 2013 @ 11:34am
pope paul v11 said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Clarrie Grimmett, J J Ferris K D Walters and Clem Hill are spewing!
January 28th 2013 @ 11:43am
Jason said | January 28th 2013 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Walters played plenty of Odis.
January 28th 2013 @ 1:13pm
pope paul v11 said | January 28th 2013 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
before 1970
January 28th 2013 @ 3:04pm
Apbdillon said | January 28th 2013 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Bert Oldfield had a test catch to stumping ratio of 78:52. He also averaged nearly 23 with the bat. Don Tallon’s ratio was 50:8 and he averaged 17. With all the spinners and medium pacers in the team, wouldn’t you want Oldfield?
January 28th 2013 @ 3:47pm
pope paul v11 said | January 28th 2013 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Some pommies to play
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Grace
Hammond
MacLaren
Compton
Rhodes
L E G Ames
Hirst
Larwood
S F Barnes
January 29th 2013 @ 12:32am
Matt h said | January 29th 2013 @ 12:32am | Report comment
Compton would have been a star
January 29th 2013 @ 12:12am
AndyMack said | January 29th 2013 @ 12:12am | Report comment
Good article Sheek.
I would squeeze Ponsford into this team, but since WW hs already given you enough grief on this issue above, I will let that one go through to the keeper.
One point I would like to make is, how would the overall Test records of these guys change if they were playing ODI’s along the way, the way the modern players have.
January 29th 2013 @ 11:25am
sheek said | January 29th 2013 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Hi AndyMack,
I’ve given WW the opportunity to provide me with his own version of Australia’s ODI team from 1877-1970 but he has strangely gone silent.
Perhaps all he wanted to do was berate me!
January 29th 2013 @ 12:34am
Matt h said | January 29th 2013 @ 12:34am | Report comment
Great article, great team. I would live ti find a place for jack Gregory, wh had a reputation as a hard hitter and a very fast bowler. Maybe in place if spoof forth on harder pitches. Not super sure about Harvey. I don’t recall him having a reputation for fast scoring. Norm O’Neill or jack Ryder maybe.