Should the NRL be limited to 16 teams?
By MG Burbank, 3 Feb 2013 MG Burbank is a Roar Guru
133 Have your say
Cameron Smith will need to be at his peak for the Storm against Manly. Images: (Mark Kolbe/AAP)
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Melbourne Storm captain Cameron Smith yesterday called for the NRL to tackle the AFL head-on and re-examine the issue of expansion.
“I think overall everyone would agree we are a bit behind (the AFL) at the moment given they are a truly national game … if we want to grow the game and we want to be the best code in the country we need to expand,” Smith said.
Expand how? TV audiences? Total crowds? Interest in AFL strongholds?
Clearly expansion would be aimed at improvement in the last category. That said, gains can be made without having a team in a given city. More club games taken to Perth combined with better TV coverage could make a large dent in that kind of market.
League can also vastly improve average crowd numbers. I think the ARLC’s blueprint for an average crowd of 20,000 by 2018 is a smart goal – realistic and achievable.
If attained, that would qualify as ‘expansion’ of a kind, as would increasing junior numbers in league territories.
But Cameron Smith isn’t talking about that. He wants teams in Perth, Adelaide, the south island of New Zealand and probably another in Brisbane.
Which brings me to the last time League undertook a major expansion effort: 1995.
Remember? Four new teams, without any contraction in Sydney, which meant 20 teams.
Twenty.
It was a disaster. At least a third of the teams had no chance to compete, which is why 40 and 50 point blowouts were frequent.
Is the salary cap more efficient than it was then? Probably. The worst teams in our current 16-team setup don’t look as bad as the ‘Sydney’ Tigers, South Sydney, Gold Coast, or the then-debutant Cowboys team.
The cap has evened out talent to some extent. However, the primary question when facing expansion shouldn’t be whether or not we have enough talent to make all 18 teams reasonably competitive.
The only question to ask must be: are there enough players to make the majority of teams watchable?
Penrith was not fun to watch last year. Parramatta was a little better, thanks to comedy acts performed by Ben Roberts, Chris Sandow and the whole team joining together to make us laugh.
St George-Illawarra were bland, with very little gamebreaking talent on display. Gold Coast has some nice kids but were still hard to sit through.
Discipline, strong forward running, defensive commitment and enthusiasm might win you eight or nine games in a season. Maybe even close to half if you’re lucky.
Which isn’t absolutely awful. You could even say you were a competitive team in most games.
But that won’t attract new fans in Perth, Adelaide or Dunedin. Teams need talent.
New fans will tell their friends about rugby league if they see brilliant running, clever sleight-of-hand playmaking, skillful kicking and destructive forward play that opens up the defence.
I don’t think we have enough of those guys to justify 18 teams. Why do I think this? We’ve never had enough before.
Oh, and NSW’s best halfback is Mitchell Pearce, its best fullback is a combination of Brett Stewart, Josh Dugan and Jarryd Hayne and its best five-eighth is … yeah.
So we do one of two things. We stick with what we have, which is a fantastic competition with a decent spread of talent.
Or we tag on two more teams and have a less-fantastic competition with a less-decent spread of talent, with the possibility of three or four Sydney Tiger 1995 reincarnations.
Or – yep, I meant three things – we further rationalize Sydney, to make room for a Perth team and second Brisbane/New Zealand club.
Guess which one I’d be voting for.
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February 3rd 2013 @ 5:17am
RMC said | February 3rd 2013 @ 5:17am | Report comment
Personally I would like to see expansion. I would like to a club in Perth and another club in New Zealand.
Having a club in Perth would help give us a more national game and may encourage more youth in Western Australia to take up rugby league. They should have a solid support base given every game Souths have taken to Perth has attracted solid crowds. Another possibly would be to make it a South-West team. They could be based in Perth, but also play a few games each year in Adelaide.
Given the massive talent pool in New Zealand, the country deserves more than one team. It would strength their national side and may also result more players taking up league instead of union.
Whilst you raise a fair point that adding more teams could affect the quality of the NRL, it may be worth it in the long term. If these clubs can attract more youth to the game, it would have a larger talent pool. Moreover it may result in superstar player taking up league. Dan Carter, for example is from the South Island of New Zealand. Who knows, if growing up he had a local NRL team to support he may of taken up league instead.
On expansion I would also like to see the NRL look into having a PNG based QLD Cup team. They would need a lot of sponsorship, however that shouldn’t be an issue due to the mining companies in PNG. It would help the international national game and if it was successful could could lead to PNG having an NRL team in the long term.
As much as I would love to see expansion, I believe the commission has made right decision postponing for now. The priory now should be ensuring the current 16 clubs remain viable. Furthermore if the game expands we need to ensure the new clubs can also be competitive and viable with compromising the current teams.
But with a billion dollar TV deal surely the time will be right sooner rather than later for the game to expand.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:29pm
polly said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
You are on the money with the PNG team & the NRL is already quite active up there. They’ll want to make sure they don’t neglect the area because I have noticed the increase of kids wearing AFL jerseys ( admittedly i spend most of my time in Port Moresby so perhaps it’s less in regional areas) & like aboriginal kids in Australia, these young kids take naturally to any game that requires hand eye co-ordination, ball skills, running & a bit of physical play. It isn’t a big leap ( no pun intended) to see them kicking a Sherrin rather than a Steeden.
The local rugby league comp is shown on tv & being part of the QLD Cup would be massive, let alone the NRL. You could almost gaurantee that every working tv in the country would be tuned to the station that shows thos games & as long as it’s on free to air then it will be a winner.
On another level, PNG is a mineral rich but socially poor country, the boost from having their own team in such a prestigious competition would be huge & lead to many improvements across the whole spectrum of the community. My only concern would be corporate governance, as there is still a lot of corruption & greasing of the wheels that goes on which undermines an effort like having a club & being involved with sponsors etc. If those issues can be overcome or managed then rugby league PNG style coming through the QLD Cup would definitely lead to the NRL & apart from Central QLD it is the real sure fire expansion region in my opinion.
February 3rd 2013 @ 7:11am
Andy said | February 3rd 2013 @ 7:11am | Report comment
“TV audiences” This is the main reason why the nrl should set up a team in WA, Perth. It is pretty much an untapped market for the nrl, and it could only benefit the league when the next broadcasting rights come around.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:48pm
polly said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
It’s the exact reason why as good as their bid is, the Central Coast Bears will never get a spot. Sydney clubs are already struggling, they don’t want to share with a neighbour who takes away tv, crowds, merchandise etc. They’d rather have a team or teams which increase the dollar value of the tv deal but don’t cut into the rest of the revenue.
February 3rd 2013 @ 7:14am
AndyMack said | February 3rd 2013 @ 7:14am | Report comment
Why do so many people want to make RL a national game? Its not. Its heartland is NSW and QLD, and maybe more effort should be spent in ensuring it continues to prosper in those markets.
February 3rd 2013 @ 9:05am
turbodewd said | February 3rd 2013 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Andy,
you are suggesting that fans never take up new sports. Can you pls explain the explosion in popularity of the UFC then?
February 3rd 2013 @ 3:15pm
AndyMack said | February 3rd 2013 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
Violence…????
February 4th 2013 @ 11:14am
mushi said | February 4th 2013 @ 11:14am | Report comment
The decline of boxing
February 3rd 2013 @ 8:24am
Phelpsy said | February 3rd 2013 @ 8:24am | Report comment
Problem for rl is this if it wants to expand … When living in gippsland in Victoria and my son wanted to play rl … He couldn’t …. No rl clubs exist. He can play most other sports. Basketball, soccer, baseball, hockey, swimming, tennis…. But not rl ? There in lies your problem! The sport does not have a presence re: juniors… Or seniors for that matter
February 3rd 2013 @ 8:28am
Sailosi said | February 3rd 2013 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Could you imagine the standard of football with more teams.
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February 3rd 2013 @ 12:41pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Its better than it was with 14 teams and 12 teams IMO.Reason being the u20 comp develops players( not all of course),to graduate to the NRL with a good grounding in skills.
The code years ago never had nor utilised the availability of Kiwi and Island talent that has since become self evident..
The Togas who played for St George decades ago were the exception rather than the rule.
The salary cap has made the 16 teams very competitive,to make picking a winner even harder today.Another 2 addtional teams means less going to the UK and France and less chance of players defecting to other codes or retiring before their time.eg foran and Mauro going over to Salford.
February 3rd 2013 @ 8:58am
Robert said | February 3rd 2013 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Why the need to expand and to be the best comp in australia?Expansion will only thin out the quality of players.And who decrees which code is the best?Each support thinks their code is the best.Im sure a staunch Melbourne Victory supporter reckons the A League is the best code.The NRL have a thing about which comp is the best and all it is about is their ego.All our codes can exist happily without needing to brag about which is better
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February 3rd 2013 @ 10:41am
BA Sports said | February 3rd 2013 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Yes some is ego
But You don’t want to become the small fish in the pond, because the others will eat you up.
If you don’t have vision and try to be better, then you’re going backward.
There isn’t enough talent for more than 16 teams. Move some Sydney teams interstate, they still play away games and an home game in Sydney so their old fans still see plenty of them and grow the game in Perth etc. Once you have more grass roots players coming through, then think about 18 teams.
February 4th 2013 @ 11:15am
mushi said | February 4th 2013 @ 11:15am | Report comment
Why does better = bigger. couldn’t better also = more important to current supporter base?
February 3rd 2013 @ 10:51am
Ken said | February 3rd 2013 @ 10:51am | Report comment
I don’t disagree with your premise but I would say it’s not all about ego.
At this risk of over-analysing I would say it’s more about a feeling of replacing something that’s been lost… and not losing any more. Until recent times there was no clear dominant code in Australia, League was the biggest in one half and AFL was the biggest in the other. In the last couple of decades though RL supporters have seen their sport constrained by infighting and media ownership while the AFL has, comparatively, done everything right and built themselves up.
Although it might grate to admit that AFL is now clearly bigger, I don’t think most RL really care if they are actually number 1. It’s more the concern that Australia isn’t that big, AFL have momentum (and the A-League is doing well too), if RL doesn’t make the best of it’s own situation it may lose relevance. Most of us just want our sport to fulfill it’s potential and not bring itself down, being number 1 is just an easy way to express that.
I did warn at the top that this was possibly an over-analysis didn’t I…..?
February 3rd 2013 @ 9:03am
turbodewd said | February 3rd 2013 @ 9:03am | Report comment
MG,
I agree with you. The NRL is not going as well as people think. In today’s Syd Morning Herald its noted that Souths are worth nothing and lose money. Also, in competition from the Rebels the Storm crowds have dipped despite winning all year and winning the GF. NRL crowds are ordinary, but could easily be better. No NRL playoff game sold out last year, a few came close. Canberra’s crowds were horrific, we averaged a smidge over 10,000. On today’s trends NRL crowds will not be 20,000 by 2018 unless they enact measures to increase them! There are now announced measures!
I truly believe the NRL is a great product but is poorly marketed and run by people who dont understand marketing in the slightest. I mean look at the UFC, this sport has exploded out of nowhere and is filling bars in Australia! I am a convert myself. This proves ppl can take up new sports if the marketing and product is good. Murdoch’s FOX network now shows the UFC. This sport is going berserk.
The NRL can go berserk but is hamstrung by Sydneysiders who cant see the forest for the trees.
February 3rd 2013 @ 1:24pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Perhaps Turbo Canberra should be on the relocation list,10,000 average,public service city.Shoe ins for Adelaide.Or play 8 games in Canberra and 4 in Adelaide ,bringing in the vast Murray and Murrumbidgee system .
The code was hamstrung by a half billion dollar plus war over Pay TV,if the truth be known.Appears there are many outside of Sydney who have little idea of the impact ,within Sydney.the comments only support that view.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:16pm
pong said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
Yes the marketing for the sport is crap I live on the gold coast n you hear n see more about the suns. The NRL say they want to help the grass roots of the sport then start doing it by getting this first grade teams out more to the community I’ve seen one titans player n that was at my kids sign on. N more then that I have boy turning 5 this year n they (qrl) won’t let him play cause his birthday just falls after the cut off but his bigger then most 6 yr olds I think if parents are OK with there kids playing let em play its a sport n We want kids to play sport .
February 6th 2013 @ 11:41am
mick h said | February 6th 2013 @ 11:41am | Report comment
if thats true about your son thats disappointing in the pjrl he would be allowed to play we need leadership
from the arlc.
February 3rd 2013 @ 4:23pm
clipper said | February 3rd 2013 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Good post turbodewd, both you and MG seem to understand the reality of the situation. The comparison to UFC is different. UFC has taken advantage of the market that has become disenfranchised by the fragmentation and decline of good matches in boxing and taken advantage of the gamer generation who like fast and violent sports. It’s easier to take advantage of this with a trendy new sport rather than one that’s been around for over 100 years.
February 3rd 2013 @ 5:10pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
It’s simply called a passing phase.
And there are many clubs in many codes in this country losing money,that is also the reality of the situation.
Yet this sport that has been around for 100 years,has more people playing the game than ever before,more money than ever before,more sponsorship than ever before,more volunteers,highest SOO ratings,all this despite a Sl war that just about killed it off..And despite no NRL clubs in Perth or Adelaide.Only scratching the surface in Vic.Second highest crowd average for the code last year .
That is also the reality,which is continually and conveniently overlooked .So for good order sake it is brought to the fore.
February 5th 2013 @ 9:42am
clipper said | February 5th 2013 @ 9:42am | Report comment
There have been many new sports that have started that have grown and become established – it’s too early to say if UFC will be one of these or, as you say, a passing phase. Just because there are many codes losing money, it doesn’t alter any reality – that’s their reality – and I think you’re clutching at straws if you say in Vic they had the second highest crowd average for the code last year when it was down 10% in a premiership winning year.
February 5th 2013 @ 5:46pm
Crosscoder said | February 5th 2013 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
And many have remained in the background,so it depends on the growth factor and the profile.Baseball,basketball.
Losing money simply signifies,that regardless of the size of a code,individual clubs can and do lose money.So not everything is perfect ,which appears to be conveniently forgotten..
The crowd average for the code (NRL) was the 2nd highest on record.If you had bothered to read my post I clearly stated, the code average not Melbourne Storm.Maybe its glasses that need clutching, for a touch of point scoring..
The Storm crowds were down,blame mondays and not having star players available for SOO and having Brisbane play them so close to SOO and aginst the warriors on a terribly wet evening.If there is a trend over the years then I would worry.
I will be concerned when they have been in Melbourne for 31 years and had the exposure the Swans had in Sydney and the crowds were ordinary.The club has been there for 15 years,with little assistance from head office.They now have money to spend.I suggest you hang around for the next 15.It may not be to your liking.
Swans crowds were down this year,and they also were premiers,despite ANZ usage and rebuilding of SCG(still not sold out),and code average was down.
February 5th 2013 @ 6:42pm
clipper said | February 5th 2013 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
You wrote ‘Only scratching the surface in Vic.Second highest crowd average for the code last year’, which reads as I responded – and you’re getting quite the reputation for always having to have the last word.
February 5th 2013 @ 6:59pm
Crosscoder said | February 5th 2013 @ 6:59pm | Report comment
If you can’t see a full stop,that is your problem.The para may well have been better constructed.
And you have established a reputation on these rl boards,for agenda driven trolling,and you get away with it,whats more.
Its a debating forum at last reports.QED I am little concerned what you or Brewski consider my reputation is.I shake in fear.
Just to keep the homefires burning .Look at the trend lines for Swans crowds since 2003 and you have a shot at the Storm dropping 10%.
February 4th 2013 @ 6:50am
MG Burbank said | February 4th 2013 @ 6:50am | Report comment
I’m not in agreement with everything here, Turbo. The NRL is actually doing very well- if it weren’t, that TV rights deal you may have heard of ($1 billion and counting??) wouldn’t have materialised. Crowds are heading upward and, with the right scheduling and grounds for big games, will reach the 20,000 threshold. The marketing isn’t terrible but could be better. Melbourne’s crowds have remained pretty steady over the last few years and will head up if the marketing improves. Canberra’s crowds are not “horrific”, considering that the team has only recently begun to be appealing again and the fact that the Brumbies took a lot of fans during their emergence at the time of the Super League war.
You can’t compare our sport with the UFC, which is a sport coming into its golden age and is brand new and GLOBAL.
But yes, Sydney clubs and too much focus on Sydney will hamper growth.
February 3rd 2013 @ 9:36am
Red Block said | February 3rd 2013 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Expansion for the AFL has been a complete disaster, despite the spin they’re putting on it. 100 point blow outs, a lop-sided draw and players who can’t even play the game, running around in the elite level is not what I’d call ‘watchable’. The talent pool, in the most competetive sporting market in the world, is spread way to thin.
if expansion was a tree, where some the new branches need to grow, then the dead wood needs to be clipped. A 12 team comp with only the very best on display is a far more bankable proposition.
February 3rd 2013 @ 10:45am
BA Sports said | February 3rd 2013 @ 10:45am | Report comment
Disagree.
Their scoreboard results are small time pain for long term gain. They are slowly wiping out rugby league in Southern NSW and in Northern QLD.
But the AFL have put way more resources into Development officers and pathways for players than the NRL has ever done and ever even considered in smaller markets.. League couldn’t expand the way the AFL is because they don’t have th eplayer base or supporter base who will watch the sport through thick and thin.
February 3rd 2013 @ 11:38am
Matt said | February 3rd 2013 @ 11:38am | Report comment
Northern QLD – what team is that?
That is not expanding the competition, that is expanding the grassroots. It seems to be the better method, the better and more local competitions are (not travelling 150km to get an opponent, which is what all AFL/Rugby/RL teams in this area do), the more players you have coming up through the ranks. Once you have enough talent coming through, you can expand the top level.
AFL top level HAS been a disaster. They don’t seem to have the talent pool either, they have more teams + more players per team. The only thing actually in their favour is they don’t have the origin + test commitments draining rosters.
February 3rd 2013 @ 11:40am
Col Quinn said | February 3rd 2013 @ 11:40am | Report comment
BA.
Show us how AFL is wiping the floor with RL in Nth QLD and Sth NSW. I have a holiday home on the far South Coast of NSW and there are not any AFL posts, from Ulladulla until you reach the Victoria. There are plenty of Football and posts with crossbars, no 4 sticks. The growth of junior RL, under the Nth QLD Cowboys, is faster than other regions in Australia. AFL is doing well but so is RL. AFL is played in more regions but RL is played where most Australians live. The NRL would be foolish not tie up the Central Coast and another Brisbane team. The threat in Brisbane is not AFL but a well organised and successful Super Rugby franchise. The NRL should be working on establishing additional teams in population growth areas. MG is wrong about the response to a 20 team comp in 2012. Currently Australia is producing a surplus of very talented young RL players, through the National U20 comp. These additional young players need more room to develop and that can be only done with more clubs. Central Coast and Brisbane for starters, followed, quickly, by Perth and a second NZ team. The competition should be them examined to assess whether Nth QLD and Adelaide can be omitted.
February 3rd 2013 @ 12:50pm
Brewski said | February 3rd 2013 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Absolute crap Col, the Sapphire league consists of Batemans Bay, Merimbula, Tathra, Eden, Narroma, Bemagui and Pambula, all senior reserves and at least 3 grades of juniors. – 17′s 14.5s and 12′s.
Ulladulla play in the south coast league with Kiama, Wollongong, Figtree, Bomaderry, Nowra,Albatross, Wollondilly and Northern Districts, reserves and juniors as well, and of course 10 or so junior clubs in and around the Gong.
This season Batemans Bay is making the move to the ACT AFL in either division 3 or 4.
Please stop with your nonsense.
The Sapphire league AFL is just as big if not bigger than the RL comp that services the region.
February 3rd 2013 @ 12:55pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Please provide proof Brewski the Sapphire league is bigger than rugby league in the Wollongong/Sth coast region.
February 3rd 2013 @ 1:01pm
Brewski said | February 3rd 2013 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Please read !! —– i stated that the Sapphire AFL which services Batemans Bay south is as big or not bigger than than the RL comp which services the area, and they include roughly the same towns/teams.
I am not stating/claiming that the local AF is bigger north of BB than RL around the gong, it’s not, and it’s not what i claimed.
!!Sapphire league!!
And my reply was to Col who is just absolutely full of it.
Most AF grounds are used in summer for cricket, hence posts are taken down.
IMO and i have lived in Narooma is that from BB south AF is bigger than RL, however go inland to Bega and RL is bigger.
February 3rd 2013 @ 1:34pm
Brewski said | February 3rd 2013 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
Sorry, and for Cols benefit, Shell Harbour, Port Kembla and Woll uni also have stand alone teams in the reserves, and Wollongong also runs a team and a under 18 team in Sydneys premier division.
Col, your plain wrong.
February 3rd 2013 @ 1:35pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
OK I wil restate my point,evidence that the Sapphire league is as big if not bigger.That takes into account all age groups one would suggest.I dont pretend to have the rl figures,that is why I ask.
You see at times. I have read about the demise of rl in country towns by the cynics(inferring the code is dead),completely overlooking the fact that a team may be playing in a lower division(merged) and has decent junior numbers.I provided examples in the past,year or so ago, to that effect.
February 3rd 2013 @ 1:54pm
Brewski said | February 3rd 2013 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Its my opinion based on living in Narooma, and knowing a reasonable amount about the the area, take it or leave it, i don’t care, but the reason for my post was to rebutt Cols post, which was as usual, completely way off the mark ….. way off.
I know enough about RL in the area, to now that it is no bigger than local AF, they like plenty other country sports struggle to fill teams.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:34pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Because I live in an area and have done so for a long time,does not mean I know everything about every sport in the area.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:42pm
Brewski said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
LOL, whatever, my head is not stuck in the sand, like my initial post was in response to.
Pretty weak post mate.
February 3rd 2013 @ 3:21pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
Deflection is always the best response.1 point mate.
February 3rd 2013 @ 10:20pm
Brewski said | February 3rd 2013 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
Just wondering if you have ever got the last word in, in a argument with your missus, because what i have noticed is every conversation you are involved in, you must have the final say, and i just wan’t to point out, that does not make your POV right.
AND BTW mate, if you live in a country town, and you have a few beers at the pub, golf club or bowls, as you do in Narooma, you pretty well know everyones bussiness, whether you want to or not.
February 4th 2013 @ 7:14am
Crosscoder said | February 4th 2013 @ 7:14am | Report comment
When I believe something is full of it or BS without providing the comparison figures ,I respond.
And you must as an AFL tragic ,spend a hell of a lot of time on rl threads, if you know my modu operandi.It is a debating forum FGS and am not that small minded in checking whether Joe Blow has the last word,unless I am a rl troll .
Don’t bring my family into a debate(that is up to me),you lower your IQ in so doing.
February 4th 2013 @ 11:06pm
Brewski said | February 4th 2013 @ 11:06pm | Report comment
Is that your final word on the subject ?.
February 3rd 2013 @ 8:04pm
Col Quinn said | February 3rd 2013 @ 8:04pm | Report comment
Brewski,
I know very well that AFL is alive and very well on the Sth Coast. I went to games in Ulladulla last year and in the 1960’s we used to come up from Melbourne and play end of season games against sides from Eden and Narooma. I put the comment in as a response to BA’s broad generalisation to see what response I could get from him (or her). I know how much work St George/ Illawarra is now putting into the region and that the decline in juniors during the 2000 to 2007 has been reversed. The increase in population on the far Sth Coast can easily accommodate two or more codes. RL just didn’t have the money to run extensive junior recruitment until recently. RL has more now and I hope it spend its money wisely than before.
Again, there are more than enough skilled young players coming through the National U20s that could easily form the basis for an additional 4 teams in the NRL. The NRL is just wasting talent if it does not recognise that the graduating U20 players need a career path. Centra Coast, Brisbane, Perth are musts.
To finish I have seen St Kilda jumpers worn on oil rigs in the North Sea by Swedes and Rabbitoh jumpers worn by Native Americans on oil pipeline in Alaska. I still don’t know if they knew anything about either club.
February 3rd 2013 @ 10:14pm
Brewski said | February 3rd 2013 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
Not the first, and no doubt, it will not be the last, but I’m calling it, your full of it, Narooma football club has only been in existence for 30 years, a bit hard to play them when they don’t exist. !!!
Your call Col ??.
The league started in 1983.
February 4th 2013 @ 8:13am
Col Quinn said | February 4th 2013 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Check the club history of Brnswick Magpies and then apologise
February 6th 2013 @ 12:43pm
mick h said | February 6th 2013 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
brewski – rl clubs group 7 15 junior clubs agrade 9 teams res 8 u18- 8 womens tag 6. albian pak,batemans bay,berry shoalhaven,bomaderry,culburra,gerrigong,jamberoo,kiama,milton ulladulla,nowra,st georges basin,shellharbour,sussex inlet tullamber and warilla lake.see the league boundaries are different to afl’s. group 16 bega bermagui-cobargo bombala eden merimbula-pambula moruya-tuross and tathra a grade-7 teams res 6 u18-4 and womens- 7. illawarra a grade 8 very strong comp res -9 third div 7 and a womens full contact 6 team comp.brewski your facts
February 3rd 2013 @ 1:00pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
They completely overlook the u20 comp Col,as a grounding and make the assumption there is not the talent.
A couple of the cynics here, seem to express a concern about the presence of an NRL side in Perth.Competition from another code ,can do that.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:19pm
millane said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
yep…. and thats why we’ve heard/seen/witnessed endless commentary by hysterical, chest thumping, doom merchant, afl protectionist-types bemoaning the presence of a rugby league side in perth…
care factor zero
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:40pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
I suggested the cynics here,not the overhyped flag wavers who live over there.We have a more than fair idea ,as to their allegiances.
Shades of he breast beating with GWS and the Folau floppathon..
“It will never work over there” is the oft used phrase.Well if the care factor is zilch,why the need for their comment, if they do not care.
You don’t care ,yet you wasted time posting in a rl thread.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:57pm
millane said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
my motives are less than pure… so no, my time was not wasted
February 3rd 2013 @ 3:22pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
One does not have to be Sherlock Holmes to understand your motives.
February 3rd 2013 @ 3:35pm
millane said | February 3rd 2013 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
now that hurts..
February 3rd 2013 @ 4:04pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
And its not even my best shot.Man up.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:11pm
Confused said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Col/Crossroader
I lived in Cairns, I now live back on the South Coast of NSW – I’m a League first person, but i like the AFL as well.
The AFL may not have an AFL team in the north of QLD (yet) , but north of Townsville the Cowboys and the NRL put no more effort in to kids than Tennis or cricket while the AFL has some 10 development officer staff out there working in schools, travelling up to the Cape etc, while the ARL has one guy and the Cowboys 1 guy. League is still the game of choice, but with the resources they (AFL) put in and the number of expat Victorians migrating to the far north things are changing.
As Brewski points out the AFL is creeping into Southern NSW. I travel quite a bit for work and talk to people in sport and recreation services in those local Councils and whether I am in Wagga, the Eurobodalla, Bega or Griffith, the message is the same, local rugby league is dying while the AFL is growing. They’ve invested in Wagga as was well publicised and they will get in on a major redevelopment at Hanging Rock (Batemans Bay) – watch that space.
And finally, have a look at the latest round of grant funding from the NSW Govt for Participation and Facilities – a program where you have to have matching contributing funding. The AFL have some 6 projects while i can’t see any specifically for league. And those projects are for disadvantaged groups, women participation etc and in areas like the Northern Rivers, lake Cargelligo, the Shoalhaven, Wollondilly
February 3rd 2013 @ 3:20pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Last I read you had been back in NSW for some time.The Cowboys have been and in the last few days at Mt Isa doing a lot of groundwork and indeed so have the overstretched D/Os.So I am hardly confused.That is a nonsense to suggest the Cowboys put in little effort by drawing comparisons with tennis/cricket.Visit clubs websites or the ARL ones .
You do understand the code has just received a huge influx of funding ,with more to come from NZ Sky TV.It äint all going into salary caps.total for clubs is this year $7m x 16 $102m.
They have just secured a massive Tv deal,a big internet/sponsor deal/a SOO /Test deal,and in the throes of a Sky TV deal in NZ.
Have a brother in law who currently lives and work in Griffith and has done so for at least 3 decades.,have an inkling on what goes on.
For crying out ;loud have a look at what the code does for indigenous programs,youth etc.The All Stars porceed is but on eexample out of many..Its all on the website.the fed Govt has complemented the code on what it does do,in that regard.Geez individual clubs also do a lot of work within the community.If you are a supposed rl follower,you would have a little idea.
Cut the utter nonsense,the code is not involved in helping the disadvantaged.
And the Wagga council invested heavily in GWS ,despite a flood going through prior.A Sydney based team LOL.
Well watch this space ,when funding starts flowing from the NRL coffers.It wont be one way trafficThe people they have on board the commission are astute business people..
Show me the matching contributions for Blacktown,Showground for a start.It was nowhere near dollar for dollar.
If you have any idea of country football,it fluctiuates like crazy in some areas.The fact of the matter is more kids are registered to play the game,than ever before .In fact the code had 126,025 registered junior players(repeat registered junior) last year ,making up 7,988 teams in 1,300 junior clubs.
More players registered in the 6-12 age group than ever ,and female players is the fastest growing area of the game.All this on a prior limited budget and with no NRL teams in WA or SA.And a Perth team will further boost grassroots numbers,as it did in the guise of the Reds.
These figures do not take into account the rebirth and growth of the code in NZ.
The comparison with the Giants is, there is already an AFL team in Sydney,there is no such animal operating in Perth.Perth have a consortium bidding and there is interest with expats as NRL game shave shown ,not involving the NRL putting in $20m pa to do so.That is a world of a difference.
My criticism centres around the money they spend to push these teams,the NRL does not have to do that anywhere near that extent.
It is as you say how one spends ie the best use of resources,and following this codefor many years whilst they have many blunders,they know how to do something on the smell of an oil rag.Just as the are doing overseas.
.What you have confirmed to me:@ you have not learnt the lessons of SL war B)You are not apparently aware of what the code is doing in many fields on a prior limited budget .and C) assuming the code’s heirarchy is not aware of what its competition is doing,yet that is the very reason they are having a $255 m fund build..
February 3rd 2013 @ 4:41pm
oikee said | February 3rd 2013 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
Dont get too carried away with AFL posters CC. The Queensland cup teams all service those areas as well. They probably dont even know that the Northern Pride are a Queensland cup team based in Cairns, plus we have the Cowboys in Townsville and the Mackay cutters and the Central Capra’s.
These are not huge areas, but i can tell you this, they are all rugby league areas no matter what AFL tires to ever tell you.
As for funding, our game now has funding, and we will be funding Victorian and Perth growth.
Next they will be trying to tell you we dont have a Perth comp.
Our game has a growing Perth comp, one day it might have a team. Who knows, in the meantime the NRL is in growth transition, we have rwecord crowds, tv fans and deals, record juniors growth and have 1.4 billion to spend on further growth.
In the meantime here is a little something to look forward to, enjoy.
February 6th 2013 @ 12:23pm
spikhaza said | February 6th 2013 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Agree with Brisbane, AFL is in a lot of trouble. Union and League are really kicking along… the Broncos get the TV viewership and strong crowds and the Reds have a big membership base, the strongest crowd (albeit by not much and they have less games than the Broncos), and they get pretty good viewership considering they are on Foxsports.. factor in the Roar and AFL is coming at least 3rd in Brisbane, quite possibly last in junior numbers… Not taking over the world yet.
February 3rd 2013 @ 12:43pm
Brendan said | February 3rd 2013 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
BA Sports: “They are slowly wiping out rugby league in Southern NSW and in Northern QLD.”
Proof?
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:15pm
BA Sports said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Brendan, look above. I think “Confused” has made some pretty good points
February 3rd 2013 @ 4:23pm
polly said | February 3rd 2013 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Proof is not now but in 5-10 years when the AFL’s aggressive & comprehensive marketing of Auskick, the funding to local councils & of sporting assets/estates will show that more kids have grown up playing AFL & will go on to support an AFL club, most likely the one that is closest to them geographically or spiritually.
The AFL puts it’s money where it’s mouth is by funding the maintenance of local sporting grounds & associated amenities but also requires exclusive use of those grounds for AFL in the winter months. The fact that those oval fields tie in perfectly for cricket in the summer & councils are on a winner for funding. Rectangular fields for rugby league ? They’ll survive for now but watch what happens over the coming years as local councils are unable to justify their investment in the maintenance of those assets. I say asset because these grounds are traditionally in suburban areas & are easily sold off for sub-division into housing estates, with new multi-purpose sites being built to cater for the community which will or already does inhabit the area.
The new facility is then built with funding from the AFL & includes ovals for AFL/cricket, courts for netball, basketball & an indoor multi-use facility which is perfect for local councils revenue stream. All the AFL asks in return is that it is the only football code allowed to use the facility & ensures that it is by the fact that it doesn’t even have a rugby field in it. What about football I hear you say, same story, the AFL is not going to assist soccer to get a chance & there will be no rectangle fields except for the astro turf hockey fields which are un-usable for rugby.
Sounds like 1984 or some other supposedly far fetched assertion of our sporting future ? Think it can’t happen in the supposed rugby league strongholds ? Well just wait & see what slowly starts to happen at your local council meetings in future when they attempt to balance the books & there is an organisation that is willing to make all the problems disappear in relation to sporting estate management & it isn’t the local NRL rep.
Most parents just want their kids to play a sport & grow up healthy, active members of the community with friends for life. With the cost of keeping kids in sport with the prevelance of public liability insurance etc, they won’t care too much if little Johnny wants to play league, union, soccer or AFL. As long as he plays, has a good time & it doesn’t cost the earth. Which code will be at the forefront of under-writing these costs ? The one that has a genuine billion dollar media deal or the one that has the media release only huge tv deal ? When you can take little Johnny & little Katy to sport on Saturday morning & they both go to the same facility to play footy & netball for example, which code is ahead of the game ? The one that funded the facility or the one that will rely on you to take your kids two different places & choose which one you watch play sport because it’s too much to manage being in both places in time to see both games ?
Rugby league won’t die, but it’s situation is going to be different in the future. It is a sport which will always have a die-hard following & strongholds, will have some of the best athletes in any code across the world let alone Australia ( Billy Slater for example) but in my opinion it is already losing the battle of the codes & doesn’t realise just how far that battle has progressed.
You can drive around your community now & things are fine, but make a note of who plays what on which facility & pull it back out of the draw in 10 years & see how it compares. Ask yourself how far your love of rugby league goes as a parent or just interested observer when your rates have increased 10-fold over thge last decade & the council tells you part of the reason is the sheer cost of maintaining community assets which simply do not make enough income to cover costs.
I have no bias either way, but the AFL has a real plan, in place & is enacting it. The NRL has a plan of which no-one seems quite sure what it is & therefore can’t tell if it’s happening or not. AFL has a well run HQ which despite having it’s own problems, runs well & has the game heading forward with all it’s ducks in a proverbail row. The NRL has a new HQ which took months even to establish & probably has some ducks but how many & which way they’re facing is questionable. Some of the ducks are a different colour from the other ducks & the maroon ducks don’t want to help the blue ducks. Simplistic ? Yes, but is it so far from what is actually happening right now ?
Add in the migration of population from southern Australia to northern climes, the attitude to AFL is slowly changing in areas that have been traditionally NRL dominated. I play golf on a Saturday & recently there was some general banter about clubs & sports. The group of about 20 people was split almost in half by their allegiance to AFL & League. From what I could garner it was mainly because the same split applied to the group as far as where they had grown up & lived as adults into their 30′s. From there they had moved & hence their location had changed but allegiance to club/sport had not. They hadn’t suddenly arrived in Townsville & left behind their love of the Nth Melbourne Kangaroos for example, whether they liked, followed or actually supported in some financial sense, the Cowboys. Is this happening in reverse ? Well from what I see in the media etc of population changes across the country is doesn’t seem so.
All in all from what I garner, the AFL has more money to invest, a solid plan & achievable outcomes from that investment, a growing /spreading fan base & greater compatibility with the aims of local councils, other sports such as cricket & greater media coverage across the gammut of available media sources for fans to access the game.
Both codes have issues with individual teams that are not breaking even & failing to even bring other assets into the game outside of money. In future I believe the AFL will become more ruthless in it’s attitudes to clubs such as NTh Melbourne when offered the chance to move to the GC. They will not expand a club into Tasmania, a club will move & will receive all the benefits of doing so & thrive. The NRL has the same issue, but seems to lack the financial clout to either force them to move & support them once in place. It looks for the NRL more of a risk to expand into areas that are not strongholds already. NRL expansion into Central QLD, league expansion into PNG , these are the sure fire areas. Central Coast is a good one but the other clubs in the area don’t want them & it will never happen.
The AFL looks to have the ability to bring a new team to Darwin without any trouble outside of logistics. Support would be assured & player supply a matter of developing local talent into elite level players rather than any thinning of the current pool. From there they develop ties into PNG & other traditional strongholds of league across the island nations like Torres Strait & Thursday Island.
This would tie in to a NQ club, the Kangaroos are a well established finacial local AFL club in Cairns, Nth Melbourne will end up here in my opinion & become the North Kangaroos, thus satisfying everyone, fans, AFL & keeping the club alive. AFL shirts are already being worn by kids in Port Morseby, the game has a profile & if local councils in Australia need money then let me assure you it’s 10 fold up there.
From my whole elongated post I have not given any statistics. I can’t give any stats from 10 years into the future but I am putting it out there that the actions of now have the consequences of later. AFL is acting decisively now, what is rugby league doing ?
February 3rd 2013 @ 4:49pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Proof is the code has been in Sydney for more than 5-10 years(try 31 years) ,and has been well publicised and marketed Polly,that has not affected the growth of rl in NSW or Qld,as the latest figures will attest.The Tv ratings in Sydney have done little,but mark time.
As far as the NRL is concerned they have barely scratched the surface,in the non heartland states,therefore there is plenty of scope for expansion and indeed grassroots growth.More so now the dollars are rushing into the NRL’s kitty.
Please cut the PNG caper with shirts being worn.Rugby league shirts are worn in Adelaide and Perth and even Tasmania.the presence there is miniscule
.I spent 10 days on the GC last year on hols and saw 1 Suns singlet.I saw more Collingwood Hawks and Western Bulldogs ones.NRL shirts are worn in Fiji.it means little in reality in the scheme of things.I will be visiting that country in the latter part of this year.
We can all prognosticate about the future,and I dare not,but the latest NRL report is at least a good basis of where the code is heading-
http://rugbyleague2013.nrl.com/
and for NQLD just a little news
http://www.northernpride.com.au/news/
That is what rugby league is doing with past funding,and it is fair to say they will do a hell of a lot more with bigger funding availability.Without going into an elongated post.
I find my post being moderated in defending my code in a rl tab,whilst others can take shots,as not be impartial.
We at least have a clear strike policy on drugs.
February 3rd 2013 @ 7:56pm
polly said | February 3rd 2013 @ 7:56pm | Report comment
No caper with the AFL shirts in Port Morseby mate, was actually surprised to see it & then see it on the increase is all. Made me realise just how easily the locals would get into a game that suits their natural skills , craziness for anything football & that’s it.
I’m just saying what I see, I have no bias, I actually have a favourite NRL & AFL team but watch neither code on tv on a regular basis. I live in Townsville ( I can see the Dairy Farmers Stadium from my house) have lived in NQ for 18 years after coming here from NNSW where I grew up a Bulldogs fan who played every sport going through high school & mostly football beyond ( soccer to clarify which code) so I’ll put myself out there as an impartial observer.
What I see is rugby league taking it’s heartlands for granted in many respects, ok NQ etc are secure, but what about country NSW, areas where AFL is nearby but not prevelant ? I have recently resided in Albury, & AFL is king by a long shot. There is a strong NRL/league community but if you look at the efforts of AFL in bringing the game at an elite level in all facets, playing, coaching, admin, to these types of areas then it leaves rugby league in the shade. Meanwhile the NRL/ARL puts the big rep game on tv at the same time as a premature Test match ? I can’ t remember but I’m sure someone will, which matches were scheduled for the same evening so that watching the supposed selection for the SOO in NSW was played the same night as I think the Trans Tasman/ANZAC Test ? Forgive me if I am wrong about tthe details but if I am wrong about the whole point then crucify me.
Don’t start on the drugs- if i google drugs,failed drug test, NRL, rugby league what will I find ?
Let’s not go there, all codes have an inherent problem as does our society, there are no clear answers or best practices beyond trying what we think is best & learning what actually works. If this is your NRL is better than AFL argument then I’ll leave you alone now.
Having joined the Army with a guy who plays for the Northern Pride & being a long term Cairns resident with family there still, I will put it out there that I am fairly cogniscant of the existence of the Northern Pride, even though I couldn’t open the link you provided.
. It may sound strange of me to say that my preferred viewing of RL is actually the QLD Cup & naturally my team is the Northern Pride, but there it is.
I make no claim to stats or any professional opinion. Merely what I see across a wide spectrum of the country & beyond. I will say that I your take tone as adversarial & of course it is your perogative.The fact that I offer no stats is because my posts are merely my opinion & only based upon my own views.
February 4th 2013 @ 10:41am
clipper said | February 4th 2013 @ 10:41am | Report comment
polly – the first post deserves to be an article in it’s own right. Although long, it was interesting and impartial, no matter that the ‘everything must be positive’ league people say. It’s hard to know what is really happening there as it is either from a pro AFL or pro NRL point of view.
February 3rd 2013 @ 4:54pm
oikee said | February 3rd 2013 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
Rugby league will be better run than AFL in 10 years time.
Our time is now. We now have 1.4 billion to grow our code.
AFL will struggle to make headway in Sydney and Queensland, even the lions struggle to stay afloat.
The Suns live on government handouts.
February 3rd 2013 @ 7:15pm
polly said | February 3rd 2013 @ 7:15pm | Report comment
Could happen. My thoughts are merely based on what I see or percieve to be happening now & how I see it playing out in the relatively near future.
I would be keen to see you elaborate on your thoughts though, not for an argument just keen to see how it looks from another perspective.
My opinion is based heavily on the fact that money is a big player in filtering down from the elite level & being able to fund the amateur & junior level.
I will challenge your assertion that in 10 years from now rugby league will be better run than the AFL, but only on the basis that I see no reason why.
If the NRL is to become the premier administrative code then there is a whole lot of resistance to overcome. AFL has a huge advantage in that it’s main income is actually a celebration of the sport, ie, the GF. League has to overcome the Origin series that makes huge dollars but also perpetutates the us against them fallacy of NSW v QLD. This financial boon is actually giving more power to the factions rather than collective. Hence the battle/controversy over the Origin schedule & giving Melbourne a regular fixture. What drives that ? Money or a desire to expand the game ? Who wins out of whatever outcome comes to pass ?
If QLD continue their dominance at this level how does that play out when the administrators come to meetings etc ? Are they all coming there on a level playing field with the codes best interests in mind ? Or is the propensity for QLD’ers to say hey we dominate this game, we should dominate the admin too ? We have seen how biased & destructive sporting politicians can be when they have their parochial hats on.
This is not to say league can’t overcome these divisions, but I say they are a stumbling block that will create problems which will put the NRL behind the AFL in so many facets of the sporting landscape that the effects will only be seen long term & for mine, too late for the NRL to recover.
How does expansion work ? Does the QRL demand that a Central QLD team be the first because it expands their control & market share ? Even if a Perth team becomes a reality based on their time zone for tv broadcast benefits what effort financially may have been expended to overcome the resistance to such a move by other powerful factions from said QRL ?
All speculation on my part of course, but when I envisage the AFL expanding further I see several options of varying viability.
Darwin- a huge logistic problem no doubt but if Perth is a reality because of TV time zone issues then is NT any different ? A strong support base fan wise, a need to develop the already strong league system to ensure progression to elite level for local players, a need to tie in to local sponsors in addition to the established AFL ones to avoid conflict & ensure maximum exposure financially.
NQ- Cairns Kangaroos, name sounds somewhat familiar ? Already offered one expansion opportunity the AFL won’t be so lenient next time & I personally look forward to supporting the NQ Kangaroos in the future. Cairns is more of an AFL town than Townsville & it avoids the obvious clash with the well established Cowboys. The ground & facilities in Cairns are already well established & are of the standard to host both night games for tv & international cricket so although NT/Darwin is more footy mad there are many factors which make up an expansion club & part of the AFL plan is to build upon locally well established facilities as a foundation so Cairns has a great chance. Cowboys fans travel from far & wide to watch games live, the same dynamic will be applicable for the NQ Kangaroos. Look for Nth Mlb to get the message in the coming years & accept the squillions of dollars & on-going security offered by the AFL to head north & become the frontier club in the war against the NRL.
Tassie/Canberra- I’ve put them together because although they have different dynamics & I’m sure they would sell their own individuality I think the AFL sees them as being very similar.
The AFL seems happy to feed regular games to both these catchment areas & has even publicly ruled out going to Tassie in the near future, which I felt was a poor move.
Tassie is an AFL stronghold much in the manner of the NRL having QLD north of Brisbane & most of Sydney. I can understand the tactic of stringing them along with elite games but not giving them their own team. It gives an established AFL club revenue & fan base which is important but what will be the cost long term ? Tassie isn’t about to fall out of love with AFL but Canberra is a sporting city that has many options as far as fans go. There may well be many fans who are swinging supporters so whilst there is a base to be built upon it is a much greater ask than other areas & thus negates the real advantage the AFL seeks when looking at expanding, which is, either strike a blow into NRL heartland such as Western Sydney, or the Gold Coast in phase 1, & then smoothly move into AFL territory such as NT or NQ to consolidate which will be phase 2.
The other move I see the AFL considering in the longer term, say 5 years to start the idea up & 10n years to actually make it happen is the take one of the feeder clubs from the TAC Cup & developing it into an elite club. There are many possibilties & at this early stage I see another blow into an NRL backwater is NE Vic/NSW. Rugby league is strong in many country areas but these are also the areas where the CRL in NSW for example is struggling with funding & attention from the heirarchy. Not so you say ? So what gives with the City v Country rep game ? I’m not even going to go any further, if you know rugby league then you know what the question is.
What other code erodes it’s own future in this way. This is why I question the above comment of the capacity of the NRL to outstrip the AFL at an administrative level at any point, short or long term.
To me, the rugby league community is awesome. There are committed, passionate people who will give everything they have for the sport, their kids who play it etc etc. but what about the administration ? What happens to the love when it hits elite level where all the money those diehards have made & filtered up through their voluntary work, merchandise sales. support of local clubs etc ? Are the corporate appointments making the right moves, making the best deals & making the most of what they have at their disposal ? I don’t think they are.
As I said earlier in my second long winded post, I see no reason why you think the NRL will be better run than the AFL & subsequently outdo it in terms of expansion or even just consolidation.
From my original post, I simply see the AFL as being better funded, better prepared, better planned with clearer expected outcomes enabling them to navigate & negotiate any eventualities along the way in the future of their code in the period 10 years from now than the NRL.
Anything could happen, but generally organisations that plan have more success than those that don’t.
I learnt at an early age in my footballing experience from an old coach, people say practice makes perfect, but it doesn’t, only perfect practice makes perfect.
Which code is practicing perfectly ?
February 3rd 2013 @ 7:55pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
You are basing many of your rl assumptions Polly on what has happened in the past,where the code was hindered by lack of funding ,a SL war and an admin that had two owners.Those 3 obstacles are gone ,zapped ,removed.
You appear to reason the NRl is going to negelect country and certainly FNQ.The following references suggest theree is more going on than your perception by an outsider
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2012/11/23/cairns-to-host-annual-rugby-league-fixture
http://www.qrl.com.au/default.aspx?s=article–display&id=66259
http://www.qrl/com.au/default.aspx?s=article-display&id=49823
http://www.northernpride.com.au/northern-marlins-dominate-state-junior-titles/
The notion that rl in FNQ is on a downward spiral is pie in the sky.There is competition that is all,just as there is compettion in other cities in this country.An just as there will be when a Perth NRL side is added to the competition.
Losing the battle of the codes,what the.It the newly pumped up player hasn”t really entered the ring.If you are increasing you registered players to record levels,just received a huge influx of money and sponsorship ,how the hell are you losing the battle.,when you havent even fought in other states.Have you bothered to listen to Grant ,and read what the code is aiming for .
.Talk about deluded.It reads like some of the guff ,expressed in Big Footy.Then you say you have no bias either way.Serious????
February 3rd 2013 @ 11:46pm
Von Neumann said | February 3rd 2013 @ 11:46pm | Report comment
Its funny though, how afl is retracting across the board, isn’t it. Looks like they have over reached. And in fact, public opinion of the sport around where I am and go has never been lower.
You see, dear Polly, the afl has one crack – to give people the consideration for AFL…..once its in their minds, they can form an opinion on it. Previously they never really knew it….but now they do, and many have simply rejected it. We must think twice on tv figures, what with so many expats around…..
also, afl has been in sydney for 30+ years, and its done little to stop RL.
The two sports existing along side each other, will never, ever wipe the other out.
February 4th 2013 @ 12:42am
Jonesy74 said | February 4th 2013 @ 12:42am | Report comment
Agreed, the Gabba is fast becoming a ghost town and word is that GCSuns give away plenty of tickets.
February 4th 2013 @ 1:10pm
Australian Rules said | February 4th 2013 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Von:
“afl has been in sydney for 30+ years, and its done little to stop RL”
You’ve got this so wrong.
The AFL never intended (or wanted) to “stop RL” in Sydney, as you put it. The intention, was to grab just a little of the market share, which it has. The Swans have the most members and the biggest crowds of any club in Sydney – that was the objective, not some silly idea to wipe out league.
Same for Storm in Melbourne – did the NRL put a team down south to “stop AFL”? Course not.
February 4th 2013 @ 2:27pm
Phelpsy said | February 4th 2013 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Suns made a profit didn’t they ?
February 5th 2013 @ 5:21pm
Australian Rules said | February 5th 2013 @ 5:21pm | Report comment
yes phelpsy, the Suns recorded a profit in their first year.
February 3rd 2013 @ 11:40pm
Von Neumann said | February 3rd 2013 @ 11:40pm | Report comment
what we do know is – RL has done well on the smell of an oily rag, and in the future it will do even better.
I think what we will find is now the ARLC have some money, RL is going to be catapulted higher than you would ever dare to imagine.
February 3rd 2013 @ 11:52pm
Von Neumann said | February 3rd 2013 @ 11:52pm | Report comment
Crosscoder, lets ask Polly the following……you’re onto him big time mate
Polly: In every possible outcome and scenario in your above long posts, why is it that RL loses?
Your motives exposed. Go doom talk over in Union. They are the ones who are missing out.
February 3rd 2013 @ 12:53pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
Well on that basis BA Sports,there is no reason why the NRL cannot expand also.They have players going to the UK and France ,because they are pushed out.
Again disagree about the NRL player base in this country, there are opportunities also in NZ,England,and the Islands.
The code you are talking about is hardly watching the sport through thick and thin ins Sydney and Brisbane ,when they are down the ladder.
The playing rosters for the NRL are far less than the AFL.
The NRL/ARL had never had the money to put all the Dos into non heartland areas,Oh wait they had the money in 95 ,and blew it in the SL war on players.They have money now ,the very reason they are building a $225m fund.
The NRL doesn’t throw money into new areas,regardless.They work on the basis of bids and that these bidding people have the financial backing to be there long term.the very reason they have a Perth u18 side,and now a Melbourne one also.fianacial discretion after the SL waste is a plus IMO.
Yes the other code has more money,then again after 2003 so did the ARU
.
February 3rd 2013 @ 2:26pm
BA Sports said | February 3rd 2013 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
No doubt part of the reason the AFL have had success is to do with the funds they have available. But as per your ARU and SL examples, its not enough to have money, its how you use it. The ARU weren’t willing to take small term pain for long term gain. They shut down the National competition after one season (maybe it was two) and didn’t invest well into the grass roots in those areas while rugby league weren’t willing to stick it out in developing markets and basically wasted money fighting against themselves.
If your criticism of the AFL is that the Gold Coast and Giants teams are struggling on field, that to me confirms that the NRL can’t expand, they need to relocate teams so that those teams have the chance to have strong line ups and be competitive from the get go. The AFL with their deep pockets and national footprint already established, have a little more lead way and can be patient in building new clubs, and suffer some small losses, the NRL doesn’t have that luxury.
February 3rd 2013 @ 4:21pm
Crosscoder said | February 3rd 2013 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Rugby league was unwilling to stick it out,because as the SL war ended and the clubs got together,there was no money in the ARL kitty and News ltd was not going to throw in any more.
Fast forward 16 years the code has money and will have a lot more by 2017.The fact they did not rush into expansions suggests discretion is the better part of valour.
I disagree,the NRL does indeed have the patience,as they did not rush headlong into expansion.Do not underestimate the new broom in the code..
No one is arguing the code(AFL) has deep pockets.But waste can eat into some of this largesse exhibit A Izzy..
The Swans struggled for many years before they hit some sort of jackpot and a SL leg up.There is a market in WA.The constant good crowds at NRL games have shown that.Expats,Kiwis will be the argument,if they are paying ciustomers and have kids who play voila..
If one needs any further indication as to how the code went in 2012
http://rugbyleague2013.nrl.com/
In fact now 167,533 registered club players in Oz (including the junior ones mentioned earlier).This with no NRL teams in WA or SA.The doomsday experts are a little premature in their thinking.
The code has a decent grassroots base on which to grow,whilst they have only skimmed the surface in vic,barely looked at SA,and had a brief look in in WA. there are many opportunities ,as well as country NSW and Qld.
February 3rd 2013 @ 5:15pm
fred gallop said | February 3rd 2013 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
The AFL has been leading the way but the nrl may now catch up with some money. However the dropoff in NRL adult numbers is large (50% since 1994) – are we getting to the US stage where only the elite few will play the game at adult level and the reat will watch???
February 4th 2013 @ 11:03am
zug said | February 4th 2013 @ 11:03am | Report comment
You have an interesting point there fred. Maybe the Adult game is in decline – the sport is too demanding at the amature level for working people to commit to it.
But the popularity of the professional game is not in question, and the game seems to be going from strength to stength at the junior level.
I guess the AFL is trying to sleeze its way into NSW/Qld through amaturism. But soccer has been a huge amature sport in NSW for a long time, and has almost nothing to show for it.
It makes comparisons like polly’s laughable, because he isn’t comparing apples with oranges. He is comparing Apples with igneous rocks. Despite the grimaced faces and death wishes comming from AFL fans, the reality is the NRL has aproximately matched them in media and sponsor revenue.
The NRL is in a strong position, and for the first time in 15 years has money. And more importantly, for the first time in 100 years has a strategic plan and a very capable administration.
February 3rd 2013 @ 9:51am
Pot Stirrer said | February 3rd 2013 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Im against expansion becuase i think it dilutes the strenght of the competition as it is. The only way id like to see the game expand is through relocation but i cant see that happening. Also i think the only place we need to expand to is WA. There appears to be genuine ipotential there and in hindsight prob would have been more succesful than Melb, especially if they had the same success. Not wanting to offend the manly supporters but i think a W.A Eagles side would be a smash hit.
February 5th 2013 @ 10:25pm
beny iniesta said | February 5th 2013 @ 10:25pm | Report comment
Well played Sir. I do wonder which comp the Perth Pirates will pop up in. Will it be the NRL or the AFL? Either is possible……..
February 3rd 2013 @ 10:38am
Vivalasvegan said | February 3rd 2013 @ 10:38am | Report comment
I would love to see the comp expanded into the south, the west, NZ and PNG. Feels like Brisbane could use a derby too. I think the talent will grow with opportunity. The answer is a two league structure and relegation alongside a Challenge Cup. Nothing is more exciting than a promotion and relegation scrap. Teams not in contention for finals play tough, with no fade outs as we see each year at present. Imagine these big Sydney clubs looking at dropping out of the 1st division? Problem of course is the clubs won’t allow themselves to be thrown out of the club regardless how hopeless they are…
February 3rd 2013 @ 1:03pm
Dean - Surry Hills said | February 3rd 2013 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
I put forth this idea back in May last year, and I still believe it would work a treat.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/05/14/could-relegation-work-in-an-expanded-nrl-competition/
February 3rd 2013 @ 5:16pm
fred gallop said | February 3rd 2013 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
Norths got relegated and wont get back…