A-League flavour could rejuvenate the Socceroos brand
Columnist By Joe Gorman, 27 Feb 2013 Joe Gorman is a Roar Expert
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Archie Thompson celebrates the winning goal with Tim Cahill during the 2014 FIFA World Cup Qualifier match between Iraq and Australia in Doha, Qatar. (AP Photo/Osama Faisal)
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At last Wednesday’s FFA Fans Forum in Western Sydney there was plenty of discussion about the Socceroos. To put it simply, not all of the feedback was positive.
Apparently, the sentiment at the Melbourne forum was the same. For football fans in this country, the growing frustration with the national team has become louder as 2006 fades into memory.
As I wrote last week, the Socceroos became instant darlings of Australian sport when they reached the World Cup in Germany. They quickly became a ‘brand’ upon which the game as a whole benefited.
But, as was suggested at the Fans Forum, the Socceroos now play second fiddle in the hearts and minds of the thousands of A-League fans around the country. Increasingly, football fans are prioritising the interests and their affection of their local A-League club over the national team.
And while it’s commonplace for football fans around the world to support their local side ahead of their national side, it’s certainly an unusual phenomenon in such a young league. Still, it’s also a healthy development. In the long term, a strongly supported national league can only be good for the Socceroos.
There are many reasons put forward for fans’ disenchantment with the national side. We are in the middle of a tough World Cup qualifying campaign through Asia, which has meant a shortage of high-profile fixtures. There is also a suggestion that the Socceroos don’t do enough to connect with the fans.
But the main objection seems to be about the way the national team plays. Our poor showing in South Africa under the dour Dutchman Pim Verbeek frustrated fans of all persuasions.
Remember Craig Foster’s “it’s not about Verbeek” outburst after the hiding to Germany? Vintage stuff.
Unfortunately, after a promising start to his tenure, Holger Osiek has become an increasingly conservative manager. Australians don’t expect tiki-taka, but they do expect their national team to attack, no matter the opposition.
As one fan commented last Wednesday night, “I don’t care if we lose four-nil, but we’ve got to have a crack.”
Les Murray made a similar point in his 2006 autobiography By The Balls “Australians hate to lose, and more than that, they hate to lose by not having a go.”
But while Guus Hiddink understood and encouraged this mentality, it seems Verbeek and Osiek are more willing to stack their defence and play on the counter.
It was always going to be a tall order for whoever replaced Hiddink. The Dutchman raised our expectations for the Socceroos to unprecedented levels. There was bound to be a come-down after that dizzying high.
The FFA deserve some criticism for not heeding Hiddink’s parting advice. He warned that regeneration was essential as our senior players were on our last legs. Seven years later, that job is still only half-finished, and it’s starting to show.
Still, stylistic objections aside, our Socceroo heroes are increasingly being replaced by our A-League stars.
As Craig Foster put it, “the A-League has actually taken over the Socceroos as the main point of reference as fans increasingly develop intense emotional ties to their club.”
In this regard, connecting the A-League more closely to the Socceroos may be the best way forward.
The trouble is, the national side is still largely made up of overseas players, with only a sprinkling of home-based hopefuls thrown in.
It’s great to see A-League alumni like Robbie Kruse, Alex Brosque and Matt McKay cement their spots in the starting eleven. It may be the future of the Socceroos brand as we move forward.
Previously, we idolised our overseas stars to the detriment of Australian-based players.
The club versus country debate was about getting the big boys in the European leagues to play all the international fixtures, both as a selling point for the game and because they were the best players available.
Michael Lynch at The Age suggests that Australia’s emerging players haven’t reached the heights of the so-called ‘Golden Generation’, leading to a “lack of excitement” among fans.
While it is certainly true that our young players have yet to establish themselves in the big leagues of Europe, is this really such a problem?
As parochialism increasingly becomes a part of the culture of the A-League, you would imagine that having Melbourne Heart’s Eli Babalj leading the line, or the Victory’s Mark Milligan pulling the strings in the Socceroos midfield would be a popular move.
Dedicated football fans watch these players week in week out. We engage with them in the stands and track their development with a keen interest.
The problem with this, however, is twofold. Firstly, European coaches have been reluctant to include A-League players. But when an A-League coach steps into the top job – be it Tony Popovic, Graham Arnold or Ange Postecoglou – you would expect this attitude to change.
Secondly, financial and career opportunities will mean that our best young talent will continue to head abroad. Still, if we were to prioritise A-League players for selection, it may prove a timely incentive for a few of those players to stay home.
If the likes of Mark Milligan, Eli Babalj, Trent Sainsbury and Aaron Mooy can break into the national team from their local club, they may not feel the need to chase big money moves to Asia, the Middle East and perhaps even Europe.
Imagine a Socceroos squad, coached by an Australian and filled with young A-League players and recent graduates. It would synchronise the domestic and the international game, and it would be a national team that fans could truly connect with.
Joe Gorman is a football journalist with a particular interest in sports history. After completing his thesis on football in Australia, Joe started with The Roar in October 2012. He tweets from @JoeGorman_89.
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February 27th 2013 @ 3:35am
Johnno said | February 27th 2013 @ 3:35am | Report comment
To me the link between good club comp, and national team success is not linked.
Example Spain and Portugal, both have had good leagues, but for year have been chronic under achievers, just in the last 10-12 years post 2000, have really improved.
English comp is still strong , and England have underachieved, mind you they have lost on penalties a lot, over the last 25 years, but the point is England only 1 title all these years, despite a strong EPL.
holland has had a strong league over the years and only won 1 major title Euro 88.
So the link to me is not there,judging by history, and also not linked to the brand to separate entities, Spain as the best example.
Spain national team for years lived in the shadow of Barcelona and Real Madrid, Athletico Madrid etc.
Same with Portugal, and Benfica,Porto,Sporting Lisbon.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:17am
cruyff turn said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Despite the examples you make, there is a far greater chance of building a strong national team from a good domestic competition than from a weak one.
If the A-League continues to grow both on and off the field, then we should expect to see more locally-based Socceroos – particularly if one of Tony Popovic, Ange Postecoglou, or Graham Arnold become the coach.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:00pm
steven said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:00pm | Report comment
And the sooner we get a new coach, the better!
February 27th 2013 @ 5:33am
Bondy said | February 27th 2013 @ 5:33am | Report comment
I think it goes to show you cant build a cultre overnight,we qualified for Germany with out a domestic competition and finished that tournament a credible 14 th all without a domestic national league,amazing.
Its all a matter of time and it should be seen as natural that club football will be the football supporters priority over the national team,thats what true footballing cultres are all about.
I’d also suggest that we no longer need the arm of a european expert manager in guiding the natioanl team we can do it ourselves although always keep that option open,its like the theory we need asian coaches for the A.C.L with our H.A.L clubs or the national team nobody draggs that up anymore,did anyone question M Mulvey’s connection with asian football when he took the roar up there last week,no.
The next trick with Australian Football will be how do we gauge who is actually warranted to represent Australia when they leave the A League and generally for a weaker league in some cases, do we just instamatically think that because a move away from Australia means the player is superior,there are some former HAL players now plying their trade overseas where I would not have purchased them to continue playing HAL football. R Griffiths off to China by the way.
We should also be advertising the brand socceroos in marketing campaigns also I think the F.F.A should address this and soon,force it into the national psyche.
February 27th 2013 @ 8:18am
Kasey said | February 27th 2013 @ 8:18am | Report comment
It’s the sign of a maturing football country to have a club v country debate. The best thing about the rise of the A-League has been that the visible ‘health indicator’ for the Australian sporting public is no longer the do or die Qualify or nothing scenario of the Socceroos. People now measure the health of the game based more on the health of the professional domestic competition.
That said, there are a couple of simple fixes the FFA could implement to rejuvenate the Socceroos ‘brand’ in Australia.
Step1: play WCQs in size appropriate venues. In October 2011, Australia defeated Oman 3-0 at ANZ Stadium in front of 24, 372 fans. The capacity of the SFS is ~ 44k
Surely for a sport who lists ‘atmosphere generated by its fans’ as a selling point, 25k in a 44,000 seat stadium would generate a memorable atmosphere much more than a 25k crowd in an 82k behemoth.
In February 2012 The Socceroos defeated Saudi Arabia 4-2 at AAMI Pk I was also at this game and it was a much more atmospheric occasion purely because FFA resisted the temptation to play the game at Docklands which is terrible for football games due to the extreme distance between the first row of seating and the sideline. If you think you are only going to get 20-25k paying spectators, there is no reason not to take the game to Perth or Adelaide. Creating the feeling that fans might miss out on a ticket if they don’t pre-purchase is great marketing in that it creates a buzz about the event. In smaller cities like Perth and Adelaide, the National team thus becomes the ‘hottest ticket in town’ and gets column inches.
Step2: Don’t just give priority access to the Football Family, how about offering a discount if you are already a supporter of the game. I am an AU Season Ticket holder and it annoys me that if I want to see my National team in action live, I have to fly to wherever on the Eastern Seaboard the game is and then pay the same price as a bloke who can catch the train to the game.
February 27th 2013 @ 8:40am
Bondy said | February 27th 2013 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Kasey,
I agree about the aami park game against the Saudi’s they had everything on the line that time it was a great night and occasion.
I thought those state governments wouldn’t back an international in Adelaide or Perth,to me it would be great if my national team played nationally and not just up and down the east coast.
February 27th 2013 @ 7:34am
graham said | February 27th 2013 @ 7:34am | Report comment
I think we need 10 top coaches in the a league before we can have an a league coach at the helm of the national team. At the moment we have three good coaches that are inexperienced in playing against other top coaches and may fail in asia as a result. Give us ten top coaches all learning to play against each other and pick the cream of the crop.
I also think youth needed to be developed more at the national level.
I’m not saying play ten 17 year olds immediately after the world cup but 3 more under 23s should have been developed in the first year of osiek’s tenure.
thirdly, the socceroos have lost their star power. Seeing a bunch of epl, serie a and bundesliga players is a lot more exciting than seeing players from the middle east.
finally the socceroos look sluggish in every game they play. When you look at players individual stats after each game you realize many are playing ok or even well but there seems to be more itensity is a poor a league game than in a socceroos game. As a spectator you wonder if there is a lack of passion for the jersey. I know its unthinkable but its just what it looks like.
February 27th 2013 @ 12:50pm
wisey_9 said | February 27th 2013 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
How would you classify a “top” coach Graham?
The unfortunate nature of sport means that someone is always going to come last. Just because the Mariners, Victory and Wanderers are the standouts this year (and credit to them!), does not mean that the other coaches in the HAL are not quality. It’s worth noting that GVE has won more Championships than Arnie has, and Ricki Herbert has guided a national team through a World Cup Finals undefeated.
This doesn’t mean that they are better or worse than Popovic and co, but it does show that there can’t really be a scenario where all 10 coaches would be considered “top” in the public’s mind at the same time…
February 27th 2013 @ 8:21am
Adrian said | February 27th 2013 @ 8:21am | Report comment
i use to hate when Archie Thompson come on for Australia, now i’m hoping he come on, as he the only one with the pace to get behide the Mideast teams
the A-league players, just all look fast
February 27th 2013 @ 9:07am
Fletcher said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Same!
I’d even go so far as suggest that McBreen should be given a crack in th Socceroos (I’m a Wanderers fanatic).
Six months ago I would be seeking medication if I made a statement like that.
Not only McBreen, I’d like to see Richie Garcia back in green and gold.
And if D’Apuzzo can continue his great form and fitness he also deserves a crack.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:03am
JAJI said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:03am | Report comment
I too agree with what Joe has said. I actually think it is very healthy to have the local competition now stealing attention from the Socceroos – there was nothing worse than 1997 and 2001 where one bad mistake in the final World Cup qualifier meant the game was put to bed for another 4 years with just the NSL existing in the background. The Azizi goal at the MCG, watching recoba bending in free kicks everytime we gave a foul my heart frankly couldnt handle the cut throat nature and nowadays it is much much better having an intense competition to follow every week rather than the knife going in November every four years
There are also other reasons why the Socceroos are in demise at present:
1) Actual presence in Australia. In 2012 they played only 2 games in Australia – a dead qualifier against Saudi Arabia on the same day Gold Coast was expelled form the competition and the crunch qualifier against Japan in Brisbane which was the night before State of Origin. Meanwhile there have been numerous games played in empty stadiums in the Middle East with Arabic music being played over the loudspeaker at times ranging from 1-3.00am – hardly great for families to sit down and watch
2) Form – I cant remember a lower time as far as playing stocks are concerned of our overseas Aussies. Currently we have no-one, Goalkeepers aside, starting in the EPL, no one starts in the Serie A, no one plays in La Liga, no one plays in France, Robbie Kruse aside no one starts in Germany, Harry Kewell hasnt played in 9 months, Tim Cahill is in New York, Lucas Neil has changed 3 clubs in 2 years, we have too many players playing in China, the UAE, Qatar and Korea the list goes on.
3) Performance – we havent beaten a European side since Germany almost 2 years ago, in the first round of World Cup qualifying we struggled against Thailand in both legs and lost to Oman away and were even behind against Saudi Arabia in Melbourne, in the final round of qualifying we didnt look like scoring in Oman in 50 degrees heat, got beated by Jordan and thanks to Timmy and Archie got out of jail against Iraq at a neutral venue having being down 1-2 with 15 minutes to go. Frankly Osiek was 15 minute sin that game form being axed
Going into this game next month which we have to win most of the squad are not playing at pesent either because of form, injuries or their competitions are in recess….
Compared to all this the A League has been a breath of fresh of air. However we all want to go to Brazil so I still think given how much is on the line there should be decent turnouts in theese next few games at home. However we wont see what we say in 2006-2008 – dead rubbers against China drawing 70,000 Greece friendlies 90,000 Japan game at MCG 70,000 Suncorp sold out even Uzbeks drew 60,000….
February 27th 2013 @ 10:32am
Jack said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:32am | Report comment
Low overseas stock ?
Chris Herd week in week out for Villa when fit
Kruse week in week out in bundlinga
Ruka was week in week out
Leckie on loan from bundusliga club playing every week
4 players all regulars in Dutch top flight
Loads of players in English championship which is a relatively high level
Stirkers in Greece and Turkey playing every week,
The glass is half full for me we just have to use the playera
February 27th 2013 @ 12:58pm
Evan Askew said | February 27th 2013 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
We don’t have anyone playing regularly in Greece or Turkey that has declared their alleigance to Australia. In the German top flight we only have Kruse playing regularly and I’ll even go as far as to say he is starring. In the EPL we have Schwarzer and Federici starting every game but no outfield players. We have Herd and Holman sometimes playing but they are not regulars first teamers. We have Wilkshere starting for Dinamo Moscow but that is it for players playing regularly in the top 6 leagues. We barely even have any players playing for the big clubs in the middle tier leagues like when we had Culina at PSV, Chipperfiels and Sterjovski at FC Basle and McDonald at Celtic. In that area we have only Holland as a regualr starter as FK Austria Vienna and McGrath starting sometimes at Brondby. Rogic has made 3 appearances at Celtic whichis promising but the SPL just doesn’t have the same prestige it had when Rangers were in it. I haven’t forgotten Oar but Utrecht are not a big team. If he keeps his form up he cam make a move to a bigger team but until then it is not like he is playing for a big club. And yes it is true that we have players playing well in the English and German 2nd tier and that is promising but it is not like it used to be by any stretch.
February 27th 2013 @ 1:38pm
JAJI said | February 27th 2013 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Jack
Herd is injured again and still to commit to being a Socceroo
Ruka hasnt kicked a ball in Germany for 3 months
Leckie gets subbed on in the German second division
Zullo is hit and miss, Sarota is out for 6 months and Davidson has been dropped in Holland
What strikers are playing in Greece and Turkey? Bulut was unused again on the weekend and Behich hasnt featured
I am glass half empty with justification
February 27th 2013 @ 9:11am
Adrian said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:11am | Report comment
I also want us to remember, Australia has 3 home games to come vs the Middile East team and away to japan …Australia such big fav to qualify from here
February 27th 2013 @ 9:02pm
steven said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
yeah, but the danger is when/if we get to Brazil, what will we have to offer, with current players way too old.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:14am
Fletcher said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Socceroos crowds are positively boring in comparison to A-League crowds.
A ‘unified front’ of A-League fan groups is needed. e.g. The Cove and the RBB could band together in the national interest when the Socceroos play in Sydney in order to give games a more colourful backdrop.
February 27th 2013 @ 11:46am
Michael_Newcastle said | February 27th 2013 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Hear! Hear! Socceroos G&G army don’t do the fab chanting that RBB or even the Cove do. Or even The Squadron!
February 27th 2013 @ 4:01pm
Australian Rules said | February 27th 2013 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Maybe that’s because they come together once or twice a year…in comparison to every week.
February 27th 2013 @ 5:04pm
Football United said | February 27th 2013 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
No one is willing to step up, people already in active groups across the A-League and State leagues who want to get involved but don’t want to get shouted down and be accused of being biased towards there own club. I think this is something the FFA is going to need to help with getting the active support groups together, WITHOUT their usual gimmicks.It surely couldn’t be that hard, i went to the Scotland vs Australia match in Edinburgh and several hundred away fans made it a great fun atmosphere with classic football songs that were easy to pick up, no megaphones or capos needed, just a large bunch of fans that were willing to get involved.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:33am
Johnno said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:33am | Report comment
I call them now the foreign roos. And to be honest I wouldn’t even want them back in the A-league. The foreign roos would offer nothing, there game has become to foreignised, they don’t get the A-league mentality, or Australian mentally of football anymore, they are the forignroos.
Guys like Brett Holman, Tommy Oar, would offer nothing to A-league clubs especially Brett Holman who is much older. There games have become to Europeanised , were aussy mate and play the Australian way.
Give me a hungry young wandererers wing back with plenty of state league games under his youthful belt, any day of the week over that bloke Holman, who hasn’t done much or David “I wa sonly a bench player the Uzbek league” Carney. A hungry guy like Kaz Patafta or Brendon Gan, you betcha, or the kiwi shane smeltz.
Give me Ante Covic, and all his energy over Schwarcher any day, Schwarcher would struggle with the passion of the wanderers fans, where as Covic lives it up, and goes along with the dance music night club jingo of the crowd.
Now in his 30′sTim Cahill would struggle for energy and the stye of high octane energy that the A-league demands, just not his natural game the A-league style now for Timmy.
The foreign roos as i call them there game has become too Europinsed, our soccer’s captain, and long time foreign roos, Lucas Neil struggled in his 1st game for sydney FC vs the Heart, too much the countries football influence, and foreign playing style.
Local roos is what it’s all about now, the foreign roos are too far gone as we are seeing with lucas Neil and Jason Culina this year.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:38am
cruyff turn said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Once you mentioned Holman and Oar, and then Patafta and Gan, I started to wonder if those early morning starts were taking their toll on you.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:47am
Johnno said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Okay I will add Bruce Djite then to the mix. He is cool in the A-league and Archie too, any day over Euro roos like Holman, or even Oar. Archie all the way. Archie resisted the Euro leagues after the 2006 world cup , he didn’t need them, and is flourishing at Victory and now the socceroos as a result of being a localroo.
February 27th 2013 @ 10:19am
JAJI said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:19am | Report comment
That attitude is passionate but not going to get you very far at the World Cup every four years when you come up against Germany, Spain, ARgentina or Brazil…….Europe will always be the pinnacle of the game and our players still have to go there for the sake of our National team
February 27th 2013 @ 9:46am
Joe Gorman said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:46am | Report comment
you’d have trouble getting Patafta into the NT, he’s now working at a law firm and is moving onto the next stage of his life
February 27th 2013 @ 6:37pm
WSW77 said | February 27th 2013 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
I remember Kaz Patafta at my great Benfica he was a very promising player, you don’t know how proud I was to see an Aussie at Benfica.
What happened he gave up? Why? Injuries?
February 27th 2013 @ 7:05pm
Joe Gorman said | February 27th 2013 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/kaz-patafta-has-no-regrets-even-though-the-socceroos-next-generation-has-failed-to-kick-on/story-e6frf4l3-1226387969902
Kaz was a good player, but never managed to kick on for any of the A-League clubs. I wonder if he would be better appreciated now that the competition has matured? He takes a very good attitude towards his career though, which is admirable.
February 28th 2013 @ 2:58am
WSW77 said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:58am | Report comment
Well very sad indeed, I love my Benfica but they are the worst when it comes to youth, they have not taken chances with so many players that its not even funny. It’s all down to the pressure of winning so they buy top South American players to get results/success. Actually Benfica’s main lineup is only composed by one Portuguese player, very sad indeed.
Even thou I hate FC Porto he should of gone there when they wanted him, his career wouldn’t be what it is now I guarantee you that. FC Porto have the ability to turn a mid quality player into a world class player. Because in FC Porto they protect their players better and they work hard or else. It’s their policy.
Maybe Popa might give him a go, he does have the ability to reignite players careers.
February 27th 2013 @ 10:07am
nearpost said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Johnno, enough!
So you wouldn’t take Oar or Holman….guess you wouldn’t take Sarota, Wilkshire or Kruse either and that Rogic guy is useless as well. Give me those Wanderers full backs any day.
Aren’t 50% of them German?
And just quietly without Mark Schwarzer we wouldn’t have got out of the first set of World Cup Qualifiers last time around. Never forget that!
He might not jump up and down with the crowd like Covic, and his days are soon to end…but he was and is a bloody legend. About time you respected Mark Schwarzer the footballer, a fantastic Socceroo, a fantastic professional and without him where would we have been!
But hey you knew all that.
February 27th 2013 @ 11:01am
Kasey said | February 27th 2013 @ 11:01am | Report comment
This is why I was so happy to see Aaron Mooy included in the most recent Socceroos squad. His career in Europe was stalled at St Mirren. He took what some would call a bold move to put the Euro career on ‘hold’ to return to Australia.
He has since gone from relative unknown in mid 2012 to a Socceroo squad player with an improving game; there’s no reason why he can’t nail down a Holman/Bresciano/Grella type role in the NT midfield.
His example is the type of success story the FFA and PFA needs to be trumpeting across the European continent..who knows how many Aaron Mooy’s there are toiling away anonymously in ‘Belgian 3rd division football’ that could give their careers a re-charge by coming home and lets face it, even starting in the abysmal conditions on the East Coast last weekend, it has to be better than ‘warming’ the bench in the ice planet Hoth of a cold European winter.
February 27th 2013 @ 6:41pm
WSW77 said | February 27th 2013 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
So true mate, but there is a problem.
A-Leagues salary cap is to low to secure our young talent at least until they are 23.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:33am
Fussball ist unser leben said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:33am | Report comment
“As one fan commented last Wednesday night, “I don’t care if we lose four-nil, but we’ve got to have a crack.”
That fan is obviously one of the 20-something “spoilt brat” football fans, who started following football when Johnny scored that penalty, and have never had to endure real disappointment, frustration & heartache when watching the AUS NT.
I lived through 7 consecutive failures to qualify for a FIFA WC.
I bet, if AUS failed to qualfiy for the next 7 FIFA WCs, in 2041 that fan who didn’t care if we lost 4-0 … would realise just how naive was that comment & he’d grab a boring 1-0 win to get AUS to the 2042 FIFA World Cup.
We have 4 WCQs remaining – 3 matches at home. AUS NT has NOT LOST a meaningful WCQ at home for 30 years, which means we’re well-placed to qualify for our 3rd consecutive FIFA WC.
I can’t imagine any football fan, who followed the AUS NT during the 70s & 80s, thinking the AUS NT needs to be rejuvenated. I followed the team when they were rubbish & playing 1-2 games/yr.
What I’ve experienced in the past 7 years with the AUS NT, is pure joy that the majority of football fans around the world never get to experience.
It’s time some AUS football fans stopped whining & behaving like spoilt brats – this is World Football. Take nothing for granted.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:44am
Joe Gorman said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Fuss, I admire your passion for the ‘Roos, but your holier than thou attitude towards younger fans borders on the ridiculous. Good on you for supporting the Socceroos through the hard times, but every football fan deserves a voice. What are these “twenty-something spoilt brat football fans” (of which I suppose you would have to include me) supposed to do? We didn’t get a choice in the year we were born.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:51am
Johnno said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:51am | Report comment
read up on history and develop a long appreciation for the heroes of 74, the courage men of Iran 97 at the MCG, and the tough defence of Argentina Maradonna 1993 , guys like Milan Ivanovic and NSL keeper Robert Zabica mate. Who almost held Maradonna Argentina at River plate stadium in Buenos Aires
February 27th 2013 @ 9:59am
Joe Gorman said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:59am | Report comment
now you tell me! I was under the impression that football in this country started in 2005 with the A-League??
February 27th 2013 @ 12:54pm
King Robbo said | February 27th 2013 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Under eddie thomson I wouldnt say we played very adventurously, played mainly with one man up front. We had a good defence back then though with the adelaide city backs tobin and ivanovic. Frank Arok sides use to take the game up to the opposition and we saw mixed results like beating argentina in a friendly and israel away, but then losing to the might of fiji and new zealand in WCQ.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:56am
Fussball ist unser leben said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Joe it was not a personal attack on you.
I just find it ridiculous that fans are not simply soaking in the joy of qualifying for 2 consecutive FIFA WCs and being well-placed to qualify for our 3rd WC.
We also were runners up in the Asian Cup – finally beaten in Extra Time by a sublime volley – after creating so many chances that the opposition GK won the “Man of the Match”.
In 2009, AUS NT was the 2nd team (by a few hours) to book a place at WC2010. We went through the final 8 qualifiers without losing a match & we only conceded 1 goal in 720 minutes of football.
But … that wasn’t enough for our spoilt fans.
They whinged that we didn’t play like Barcelona!
That’s why I think many of our younger fans are “spoilt brats” – they’ve never endured through tough times following the AUS NT … but, they’re still whinging.
February 27th 2013 @ 10:11am
Joe Gorman said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:11am | Report comment
ok Fuss, no harm done. I wasn’t defending myself, I was defending the right of younger fans to voice their own opinions
February 27th 2013 @ 10:19am
Adrian said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:19am | Report comment
i think there is a part of “spoilt brats” in the way we look at the Australian socceroos
it funny really…when the Australians talk (look) about A-league to Europepan leagues, we talk down on Australia league, Australian training and coaching …But yet we think the Soccrros should not just make the World Cup , but Quail y out of the group stage
When we look at the betting for the 2010 world cup, Australian team was underdog in everygame, with the betting saying Australia would finishes last in that group…Australia was very close to making it out of group , but when you go down to 10 mean in fiirst two matches, make it hard to get out
February 27th 2013 @ 12:35pm
Bondy said | February 27th 2013 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Fuss,
I checked the Telegraph this morning to notice also P Rothfields twitter account saying he’s off to the soccer at bluetounge this weekend,suprise suprise.
February 27th 2013 @ 10:17am
Jukes said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Fuss I was there at the forum when he mentioned that comment and to tell you the truth I share his sentiment.
I have also been through the heartache of missed qualifications over the years. My first recollections were the Scots with the likes of Dalglish, Souness and co. While we were well out of our depth that day we gave it everything and I never felt we would die wondering about our performance. I cant say I felt the same way when we play Germany in the WC. While I appreciate playing Germany is a totally different animal than playing Scotland in that in you can only play as much as what they allow you. I always wonder what might have been if we had played them a bit more aggressively. Maybe we would have lost 6-0, maybe it would have been 2-1 or 3-1. I dont know because what I saw that day was totally unrecognisable to the way we would normally play. I am not upset by the scoreline, others in the group lost by the similar scorelines or more, what I was upset with was the manner in which we lost.
February 27th 2013 @ 10:30am
Adrian said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:30am | Report comment
Soory…but Australia was to aggressively in germany game in 2010…it why we lost 4-0 .. as soon Australia went down to 10 men at 56 min 2-0 down..Australia should have stop attacking ,,Australia lost 4-0 because it was trying to attack germany with 10 men,
Australia was also down to 10 men vs Ghana after 24 min…the stats tell us, that 66min down to ten men is worth 1 extra goal to Ghana, but the match end 1-1
that 96 min of 10men football out of 270 min in 2010, that the Australia team played, but yet, they almost made it out of a very hard group…i think people really forget that
February 27th 2013 @ 10:42am
Jukes said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:42am | Report comment
Jebus Adrian you would think this was my first year as a football fan. I have no problem parking the bus when we are down to ten me. Its common sense. I just think we went into that match against Germany with a defeatist attitude. Prior to the send off I saw nothing from the National team in the way we would normally play. I am still at a loss why we didnt start Harry in that game who was still arguably our best player at that point. Why would you leave one of your best players out of the squad. And yes in 2010 Harry was still one of our best players.
February 27th 2013 @ 5:21pm
Adam said | February 27th 2013 @ 5:21pm | Report comment
Aggressive?? WE didn’t play a striker, we technically played a 6 man midfield. Pim was pilloried out of the job because we sat back and didn’t “take it” to the Germans. We were just outplayed, and not the only team that’s happened to from the Germans over the journey.
February 27th 2013 @ 10:55am
Fussball ist unser leben said | February 27th 2013 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Jukes
I don’t think we weren’t aggressive against GER. In fact, in the opening 5 minutes, Richard Garcia had a shot on target that had beaten Neuer but was cleared by Philip Lahm who was standing on the goal-line.
Imagine the scenario if AUS had gone 1-0 up after 5′! I’m not talking about some fanciful hypothetical – this was as close to a reality since Garcia’s shot was a certain goal, but for Lahm’s intervention (if I recall it was close to a handball, too?).
Remember this same GER team absolutely smashed ARG 4-0 in the QFs.
And, ARG had one of the most potent attacking teams in the competition: Messi, Tevez, Higuain, DiMaria, Maxi Rodriguez!
Remember, AUS played the final 34′ with 10 men. At that stage we were 2-0 down. In retrospect, Verbeek should have gone MORE DEFENSIVE.
If we had achieved a 2-0 loss to GER, then when we were leading SER 2-0 … we were through to the Ro16!
February 27th 2013 @ 11:01am
Jukes said | February 27th 2013 @ 11:01am | Report comment
See my reply to Adrian above
February 27th 2013 @ 1:41pm
JAJI said | February 27th 2013 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
However Fuss the team put out was a disgrace – I was at Durban and couldnt believe when I saw Kewell, Bresciano and kennedy all on the bench…..
February 28th 2013 @ 11:22am
oly09 said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:22am | Report comment
I was in Durban for that match and all I can vividly remember from that game was our back 4 being beaten time and time again. We could have been beaten 6 or 7 nil in that game.
Even if we’d scored first, we still have have lost.
The biggest disappointment was the draw in Rustenburg. We were all over Ghana with 10 men and Wilkshire had a great chance to win it for us.
February 27th 2013 @ 12:01pm
Realfootball said | February 27th 2013 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
“That fan is obviously one of the 20-something “spoilt brat” football fans, who started following football when Johnny scored that penalty, and have never had to endure real disappointment, frustration & heartache when watching the AUS NT.”
Fussball, sometimes your posts simply defy belief – a toxic combination of offensiveness, myopia and wildly unbalanced irrationality.
What you need to grasp is that what you find “ridiculous” may often simply pass for sanity in the normal world.
Do really treat people like this in your day to day life, throwing derogatory insults at anyone who disagrees with you? I suspect not.
February 27th 2013 @ 3:30pm
Sleemo said | February 27th 2013 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
I don’t necessarily agree with all of Fuss’ comments, however with four WCQ remain I’ll take two 1-0 wins and two 0-0 draws if it means we get to Brazil. And hell, once we’re there I’ll take one 1-0 win and two 0-0 draws if that’s enough to get us to the second round. I don’t care how entertaining the team plays, in these games it’s all about results.
If the Socceroos were to qualify for Brazil and make the second round based on the scenario I’ve put out above, there would be a hell of a lot less people labelling the tournament a failure for the team than there would be if we go out all guns blazing in March and June this year, play attacking football and don’t get through. Those people who support the team for succeeding but label them “boring” when they win in a few dull games and demand constant entertainment do not know what they’re talking about.
February 27th 2013 @ 5:24pm
Jukes said | February 27th 2013 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
Sleemo you do make some very valid points and I do agree with you as do a lot of people. At the end of the day it is still important that we get the desired results even if that means playing boring or defensive. But it also depends on the circumstances on each match and whats required for progression to the next stage. As an example if we needed to score lots of goals to get through a group to improve our goal difference and if we sat back defensively anyway. That would just peeve me of beyond belief and rightly so.
If we got the results as you so described with a 1-0 win and draws of 0-0 and we got through to the next stage off course we would view it as a success and we should. But also there comes a point in every nations football journey that the expectation to play a certain way and still get a result is very important. I give you examples of Brasilian Jogo Bonito or the Netherlands total football and Spains possession and passing game. In all instances this type of football reflects both the desires and the psyche of the people of these respective nations. Many of us could argue that Brasil plays a more pragmatic game these days. To a certain extent that is true, are the people of Brasil happy about this. Most certainly not, even when they win. Harsh I know but thats the truth. I will argue that what I saw of the Netherlands in Sth Africa was not total football and they as a nation have gone away from the beautiful game as they once played in the 70′s. Are the people happy about it, I mean I am sure they are somewhat pleased that came 2nd thats an outstanding result. Are they happy that they are labelled as cynical, pragmatic and not playing total football. I dont think they are.
I am not saying we will ever reach the lofty heights of these fantastic footballing nations but at some point when we mature as a football nation we will be asking more of our players. Not only to play a certain way but to also get the desired result. is this harsh or asking too much. Perhaps but I can always dream.
February 28th 2013 @ 1:22pm
Sleemo said | February 28th 2013 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
Jukes, I agree with many of your comments also. I guess my point is that when it comes to the Socceroos, what will be remembered is how far they went in the tournament, not how entertaining or attacking their football was. I mean at the end of the day results are what counts…2006 is considered a success because they qualified from the group with 1-1-1 results, while 2010 is considered a failure because they didn’t get through although they got the same results…see what I mean? I personally think we did well in 2010, and if third place in the group had been achieved in 2006 – after our absence of 32 years – I think it would have been considered satisfactory. Problem is too few people truly understand the Socceroos’ true place in world football.
Your examples of Brazil, Holland and Spain are a bit difficult to apply to the Socceroos though – these are well-developed football nations with years of big-tournament experience. They’re probably at the stage where they have developed a reputation and a method of football. Australia is not at this level yet – for these nations the realistic focus is on winning the World Cup, for Australia the immediate focus is to qualify from the group stage – THEN we can think about going further. I love watching entertaining football as much as anybody but I would prefer to see a dull game where Australia win 1-0 over an end-to-end attack-fest where we lose 3-2.
I agree in that in the future the Socceroos will get to a stage where the way they play the game is more identified with the team than the results – but people like winners and if pragmatic, “boring” football gets results, that’s what we need right now.
February 28th 2013 @ 11:20am
oly09 said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:20am | Report comment
The 4-0 comment sort of annoyed me too, but not because I assumed he was a recent Socceroos fan.
I’ve watched a lot of poor WC qualifiers since we made the move to Asia and been frustrated and disappointed along the way. But, in my opinion, qualifying for the WC remains the main goal, with the second one blooding the next generation.
But I guess I think that way because qualifying for the WC has also had a big impact on where and when my next overseas trip will be!
To say you’d rather lost 4-0 and have a go is ridiculous.
February 27th 2013 @ 9:53am
nearpost said | February 27th 2013 @ 9:53am | Report comment
As one fan commented last Wednesday night, “I don’t care if we lose four-nil, but we’ve got to have a crack.”
There is no evidence Jo that any Aussie fans of any sport, other than the guy you spoke to would turn up to watch the Socceroos or any Aussie sporting team if they were beaten 4-0…”but had a crack.”
4-0, that is some crack in football. Sort of like setting the Indians a target of 50 in their second innings in cricket. Awesome contest.
Would be awesome seeing that guy in the stadium on his own watching the Roos 4-0 down…”but I’ll be back as we’re having a crack:)”