SANZAR allowing a dangerous precedent with scrum feeds
Columnist By Brett McKay, 5 Mar 2013 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Halfbacks, referees, Rugby Union, SANZAR, scrum engagement
116 Have your say
Reds' Will Genia feeds the scrum during their Super Rugby match against the Brumbies. (AAP Image/Alan Porritt)
Related coverage
After several of you have raised the question to me via discussion comments, and even more via Twitter, I’ve spent the weekend looking closely at a blight on the great game that in a former life I may have actively participated in.
I’m talking about the endemic crooked feeding of scrums.
Embarrassingly, I’ve had to admit to those raising the issue that it’s just not been something I’ve noticed. And no, that’s not the former non-tackling scrumhalf in me looking after the brotherhood.
Don’t get me wrong, I certainly fed my share of second rows.
At one point in the olden days, a coach even asked me why I would disadvantage our underpowered scrum even further by giving the opposing pack a fair crack at the ball. Maths teachers, they had answers for everything.
Anyway, given the number of comments coming my way on the matter, it was clearly something worth looking into. And look into it I have.
So that we’re all clear, Law 20.6, ‘How the scrum half throws in the ball’, is the specific law in play here. Parts a, b, c, and e, respectively, address the where, how, speed, and single movement requirements for feeding the scrum.
Law 20.6 (d), specifically, states:
The scrum half must throw in the ball straight along the middle line, so that it first touches the ground immediately beyond the width of the nearer prop’s shoulders.
Sanction: Free Kick
The IRB ‘Laws of the Game’ webpage even includes a helpful video to illustrate Law 20.6 (d), in which Chiefs scrumhalf Tawera Kerr-Barlow is pinged in his Junior All Blacks days for a crooked feed in a game against the Young Wallabies.
Armed with all this information, I watched the weekend games with an eagle eye and a notepad.
To say I was alarmed would be a massive understatement.
I can’t say that I’m disappointed in my modern, professional contemporaries for peddling a sin of my past, but I can and will express amazement that a Law of the Game is so flagrantly and obviously being ignored by officialdom.
Of all the Waratahs-Rebels scrums where I had a clear view of the feed, not one of them was straight, even by my conservative measure.
While I would have allowed feeds going into the tunnel even if favouring the hooker, Nick Phipps and Brendan McKibbon couldn’t manage even that.
It was only marginally better in the Reds-Hurricanes game, where even though I did consider two feeds from TJ Perenara, and one from Nick Frisby to be ‘straight’, eight others were not.
It might just be the young blokes? I had veteran All Black number nines Piri Weepu and Andy Ellis feeding reasonably straight all night, while Weepu’s replacement Bryn Hall threw his first one straight and his second one to his prop.
Kerr-Barlow is a reformed man, evidently, with his couple of feeds that I could judge clearly in the Chiefs-Cheetahs game being allowable.
But former Waratahs marquee man Sarel Pretorius threw several – and he wasn’t alone in this regard – that were way worse than what Kerr-Barlow was pinged for in the IRB example clip.
The South African games showed more of the same – when the link was up – with the best offered again being those scrums where the ball was at least fed to the hooker. But there were just as many fed straight to props, too.
The Six Nations aren’t immune either, with some weekend review showing plenty being fed favouring their own scrum.
I will say that on viewing, I don’t think it’s as bad in the northern hemisphere as it is in Super Rugby, and French no.9 Morgan Parra might just be the fairest scrum-feeder on the planet.
My old maths teacher would hate him.
In truth, by the letter of the Law, there wasn’t a single scrum in Super Rugby over the weekend that was honestly fed ‘along the middle line’, as 20.6 (d) requires.
The best you see is when the ball is fed into the tunnel toward the hooker, whereas the worst and most blatant – and Phipps, McKibbon, Ben Lucas, and Alby Mathewson were the worst offenders – came when the scrumhalf would stand straight, but then turn on delivery and feed to or through his loosehead’s legs.
In the leadup to this article, I inquired of SANZAR whether they had introduced any new interpretations, or if they were allowing certain liberties to be taken with regards to the scrum feed, and particularly IRB Law 20.6 (d), or whether it still applied to the letter.
The response was simultaneously surprising and worrying.
“SANZAR’s primary focus is enhancing the structure and flow of Super Rugby. While a proportion of scrum feeds may not be executed to the exact letter of the law, it’s not currently an area of critical importance,” said SANZAR CEO Greg Peters in a supplied comment.
“As long as the game continues evolving to create more space, generate continuity, and improve scrum engagement, players, coaches, referees and most importantly fans are satisfied.”
Let me declare that I do understand SANZAR’s position regarding the desire to enhance the flow of Super Rugby games, and as I outlined last week, I think the new breakdown interpretations are going a long way toward doing just that.
But the admission that the scrum feed is “not currently an area of critical importance” is rather staggering.
On one hand, the scrum engagement is important enough to overhaul the referee’s calling sequence, and again, I think the new crouch-touch-set call is working a lot better than the previous four-step call did.
Yet on the other hand, something so easily policed as the scrum feed isn’t important at all.
As an aside, Sky Sports New Zealand commentator, Scotty Stevenson, told me over the weekend via Twitter that there are moves afoot for yet another scrum engagement overhaul, whereby opposing props would have to hold their bind on the ‘touch’ call, essentially de-powering the hit.
There’s another column, probably.
Moves from the IRB to add another specialist prop to the bench shows that the desire is obviously there to ensure that the scrum is maintained as a contest for the entirety of the match.
So then why not actually ensure that contest during the match?
In fact, when you consider that crooked lineout throws are still penalised, it makes even less sense.
On Friday night, the Rebels were penalised for not throwing straight around the 63rd minute, yet Waratahs half Brendan McKibbon fed the scrum through his prop’s legs not a minute later.
So what’s with such an obvious double standard? Why is one set piece worthy of a fair contest throughout, but not the other?
Why have referees and administrators allowed this, and why have we fans not spoken up sooner?
And why do SANZAR and the IRB even bother trying to improve the scrum engagement, if the ball being fed toward two o’clock nullifies that engagement?
The worry here is what precedent SANZAR and the IRB are creating for themselves. If the contest within the scrum is removed via the feed, then the whole engagement sequence and carry-on becomes pointless.
And if scrums aren’t going to be fed straight and that doesn’t matter, then what’s the point of penalising errant delivery at the lineout?
I can’t help but think of old Roarer Jock M, who as long as I’ve been involved with The Roar has been popping up late on discussion threads bemoaning that with every law change, every new interpretation, rugby is pushed closer toward its 13-a-side cousin.
We might dismiss old Jock for being stuck in the past sometimes, but on the topic of scrum-feeding, he may just have a point.
On another point of investigation…
Roarer Justin2 enquired last week about whether it is the team doctor conducting the Pitch Side Concussion Assessment, or whether it is the match day doctor that allows or prevents players returning to play after a head knock, and I asked this question of SANZAR at the same time as my scrum-feeding enquiries.
Within a detailed response I received about the PSCA (including that the referee, match day doctor, or team doctor – but not the opposing team doctor – can request the assessment), the answer to your question, Justin2, was this, from the Super Rugby Tournament Manual:
“The Team Doctor will complete a PSCA on a player with ‘suspected’ concussion UNLESS the Team Doctor assigns this responsibility to the Match Day Doctor (MDD) prior to the commencement of the Game.
“The Team Doctor in cases of emergency can assign PSCA responsibility to the MDD during a Game.”
There was no specific mention of the MDD overruling the team doctor (or vice versa), though.
Reading the information provided, it would seem that if the PSCA is followed properly (and the MDD will “observe” if not conducting the test), the result – and the implications for the player resuming – cannot be overruled.
Brett McKay is a former non-tackling scrumhalf and not-quite-1st Grade middle order stalwart. A rugby and cricket expert for The Roar since July 2009 (having joined in Sept 2008), Brett has written for Inside Rugby and Cricket Australia, and is also PLAY Canberra's rugby correspondent. He tweets from @BMcSport
Sport, all day long. Does this sound too good to be true? We're searching for a Group Sales Manager to lead our team in Sydney. If you're a sales star who doesn't mind a hit, kick, throw, or cycle, we want to hear from you. Apply now.
Have you seen the new Wallabies jersey? Want one of your own? We're giving away a brand new 2013 Wallabies jersey to one lucky Roarer, click here to go in the running to win.
- Explore:
- Halfbacks, referees, Rugby Union, SANZAR, scrum engagement
March 5th 2013 @ 4:15am
Johnno said | March 5th 2013 @ 4:15am | Report comment
Maybe the IRB , SANZAR who ever are all just going to give up on scrums and by 2025, scrums will just be like rugby league. A non-event, and meaningless contest for possession. I hope not,. But scrums are a mess, they have improved this year , with the new calls, but still a mess.
-Non pushing at scrum perhaps. But if feeding the ball not straight is not seen as of critical importance, R.I.P scrums what hope does the noble art for piggies have, not much.
-And do scrums appeal to rugby’s desire to appeal to a broader audience, that’s a debatable question too.But they do take a lot of time to re-set. That’s why I want an athletics type rule,.
-2nd re-set a decision is made free kick, or penalty, and that’s it. The 6 nations this year has been hamstrung to by awful scrums, and most end up in a free kick anyway.
Maybe dock an automatic 3-points if you collapse a scrum in your own half.
But feeding the scrum straight should be the 1st ironclad law, downbeat, if not what hope the scrum got, like ODI cricket too the rubbish bin within 10 years.
Rugby league and rugby union slowly resembling more similarities each year. The 5 second rule is like a hybrid play the ball.
March 5th 2013 @ 5:02am
ScrumJunkie said | March 5th 2013 @ 5:02am | Report comment
I hope you wrong about where rugby will be in 2025 Johnno, this is one of my greatest fears. Looks like it could be going that way, after all in the scheme of things it’s not that long since the scrums were fiercly contested in league.
Maybe with advent of professionalism, the rugby scrum is endangered. The sad fact is that many fans don’t wan’t to pay to see scrums, when they could be watching sublime backline play.
As for me, I’d be happy if a game was one scrum reset 50 times.
March 5th 2013 @ 5:12am
Johnno said | March 5th 2013 @ 5:12am | Report comment
A true piggie you are scrumjunkie. I love scrums, I am just sick of the re-sets. Some teams with a weak scrum deliberately collapse it, and just concede a free kick.
Maybe they should get tough and any collapse, 2st time fail if you collapse it, 3 point dedection , or penalty.
I hope scrums stay I love it, not as much as you but I don’t want it taking up the whole 80 minutes or 30 minutes of the game.
A good 10-15 minutes maybe. 4 scrums per half 5 max.
March 5th 2013 @ 5:36am
ScrumJunkie said | March 5th 2013 @ 5:36am | Report comment
10-15 minutes ,a good compromise, I have to admit I don’t mind seeing the occasional piece of sublime backline play.
Even I can agree that they must do something about the resets, if they don’t they will just figure a way to slowly take the scrums out of the game. That’s why I love this article, because I’m afraid not policing the halfback’s feed could be the first step down that road.
Increasing the penalties for collapsed scrums could be an option, but then we always get pulled back to who is actually collapsing the scrum? Let’s face it, with many referees it’s a lottery.
And I can speak from experience, when the opposing scrum has been warned to keep it up, it was my goal to collapse it. Refs would usually rule against the team they had just warned.
March 5th 2013 @ 6:15am
biltongbek said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:15am | Report comment
All SANZAR has to do is stop the clock during scrums. Teams will quickly stop wasting time.
March 5th 2013 @ 10:22am
ScrumJunkie said | March 5th 2013 @ 10:22am | Report comment
I love that idea!
March 5th 2013 @ 2:34pm
Ryan said | March 5th 2013 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Hear hear I couldn’t agree more the amount of time that is wasted around scrums is ridiculous. The clock should stop as soon as a infringement is called leading to a scrum or a scrum reset and not be started again until the ball is fed into the channel.
March 5th 2013 @ 5:36pm
Terry Kidd said | March 5th 2013 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
No they won’t. They will waste more time. The lead up to a scrum will become an open rest break
March 5th 2013 @ 6:11pm
biltongbek said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
They might waste more time, but it won’t reduce game time. Scrums are the worst offender when it comes to time wasting on a rugby pitch. But scrums are an integral part of rugby union.
So you can’t change the laws otherwise you might just bring Rugy union closer to Rugby League and I don’t want that.
How else are you going to ensure there is still a tough contest at scrumtime, but not lose the minutes wasted?
The referee could even be sanctioned to award free kicks against teams wasting time.
March 5th 2013 @ 9:42pm
Ra said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
Maybe non-front row scrummagers shouldn’t have a say Johnno??? It’s a tough joint the front row club. The scrum is the only time when the two opposition sides meet in set piece confrontation on the field. Two of my brothers and I belonged to that club and we didn’t appreciate our brother offering us advice from the wing when we were don’t it tough against formidable opposition.
March 5th 2013 @ 4:16am
Shop said | March 5th 2013 @ 4:16am | Report comment
Th refs seem to have so much else on their hands at scrum time that they don’t bother with this law anymore. It is a shame because it makes the scrum contest exactly that. It wouldn’t be that hard to fix either, a few weeks of consistantly blowing this up and the no.9′s would have no choice but to feed it straight.
March 5th 2013 @ 12:49pm
jeznez said | March 5th 2013 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
It would drive serious change to scrums – that is for certain.
There were a couple of times last year where the Wallaby scrum and their opponents were so evenly poised (and miracle of miracle the ball had been fed into the centre of the scrum) that neither side would hook for it, the fear obviously being that the hooker lifting his leg would see his side de-powered and pushed off the ball.
March 5th 2013 @ 5:27am
BennO said | March 5th 2013 @ 5:27am | Report comment
There’s so much wrong with that reply from sanzar. And I agree it seems Jock M is right.
While it’s not a bad thing in and of itself that rugby becomes a bit more like league, it’s pretty self defeating when the powers that be abandon the concept they cling to as a matter of identity – the continual contest for the ball.
March 5th 2013 @ 9:22am
Brett McKay said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Certanly in terms of the scrums feeds, BennO, Jock may well be right. I still think his complaints about a lack of contest at the ruck are way off though – if that were the case, teams wouldn’t bother going for the steal, or counter rucking…
March 5th 2013 @ 9:37am
BennO said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Absolutely Brett, there’s plenty of contest for the ball in other areas.
But it is disappointing that scrums have become such a dull affair. There’s really not likely to be a tighthead any more because of quality hooking, just a penalty turnover from a good hit or crafty “play”.
March 5th 2013 @ 12:56pm
jeznez said | March 5th 2013 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Best set of scrums in a game involving Aussies last year was against the French.
Aussies had some good early scrums but the French were on top most of the night, capped off by a penalty try as they splintered the Aussie pack.
The Aussies got a bit of their own back at the end with a tighthead of their own.
Was a really top class effort of scrummaging by both sides with the French taking the points in the scrum battle and the game.
Agree with you BennO that this does tend to be the rarity rather than the norm.
March 5th 2013 @ 3:27pm
BennO said | March 5th 2013 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
I didn’t see that game jez but I did always enjoy watching hookers strike for the ball. I actually marvelled at their flexibility to strike when in the middle of a scrum. I played in the second row and our scrum coach always carried on about keeping pressure on the prop but still, there must be some torsion on a hookers body when striking for the ball.
I saw earlier that someone below mentioned that enforcing the law might clean up scrums because it would force hookers to maintain a body position to enable them to strike rather than pushing only. I thought that sounded pretty plausible.
March 5th 2013 @ 12:08pm
sheek said | March 5th 2013 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Brett/BennO/Johnno/Guys,
There might still be a lot of contest in other areas, but it ain’t what it used to be.
Rucks are gone.
Lifting in lineouts might have removed the ‘dockyard brawls’, but steals are in the minority. Often teams will not contest the throw.
Scrum feeds are clearly not straight. The ability of a quick-striking hooker to steal a feed has been all but lost.
The game is being sanitized to a point whereby it might well be touch footy in 50 years!
I might remind Roarers it was many of the same “officials” who warned the ethos of the amateur game would be lost, who were also among the first to stick their noses in the trough of professional rugby.
And it’s heading the same way that those same “officials” proudly sprouting that rugby is a game of a continual battle for possession who are also turning it into anything but.
March 5th 2013 @ 1:07pm
Brett McKay said | March 5th 2013 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
Sheek, there’s one difference between the lack of contest in lineouts and scrums though. If teams don’t contest a lineout, that’s theor choice. But they can’t really make that same choice in scrums because of the feed..
March 5th 2013 @ 1:20pm
sheek said | March 5th 2013 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Understood Brett,
I guess I was mostly responding to BennO that the continuous contest for possession was ever so slowly being eroded.
March 5th 2013 @ 1:51pm
Johnno said | March 5th 2013 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
sheek would you be open to lineout lifting being banned.
The lineout’s from footage I have seen in the 80′s were a complete mess. But in saying that rugby is a rolly polly game, at least more lineouts could be pinched.
rucks are gone too. The touch footy culture of rugby could be here within 50 years.
It’s all about the mums, and getting the broader audience. So petrified are rugby officials of scaring away mum’s telling there kids not to play this rough sport.
As long as rugby is tough at a junior level of promoting a culture of the head is sacred, no swinging arms and cheap shots at junior level, the game is fine to play, nothing to be scared about.
March 5th 2013 @ 2:09pm
Jerry said | March 5th 2013 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
No lifting = more chance of regaining possession for the team taking the ball out = more kicks for touch.
Also less set moves off the lineout as the halfback is getting cr@ppy tapped back ball.
March 5th 2013 @ 3:24pm
BennO said | March 5th 2013 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
I agree it ain’t what it used to be but I’m not sure it’s because there’s less of a contest across the board (scrums aside) than the contest has changed. As Brett points out, you can contest a lineout. And while traditional rucks are gone (my biggest disappointment) there is still some contest there, it’s just a different contest.
March 5th 2013 @ 3:47pm
sheek said | March 5th 2013 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Johnno,
The reason why lifting was allowed in the first place was because policing everything in the lineout was so difficult.
So allowing lifting at least allowed for some sanity.
i don’t want to think about where the game is heading, but clearly the ‘nanny state’ mentality is leading the game to touch footy!!!
I understand the need for safety but at this rate contact sports won’t exist in 100, or perhaps 50 years.
Maybe world wars will be back in vogue instead…..
March 5th 2013 @ 4:05pm
Mike said | March 5th 2013 @ 4:05pm | Report comment
Even though lifting in line-outs has evolved pretty much by accident, as it were, it has turned out to be one of the showpieces of the game.
The public love it, advertisers love it.
So probably by chance, but what was once viewed as sharp practice is now a highly sought-after skill.
March 5th 2013 @ 6:50pm
moose said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
fugby did used to be a rucking good game
aaaahhhhh i miss those bloody, nasty, ‘fix bayonets boys and over the top’ type free-for-all struggle for the ball
jeez they were painful, but
March 5th 2013 @ 5:43am
mania said | March 5th 2013 @ 5:43am | Report comment
agree sarel was blatantly feeding crooked, but it was better than him standing around complaining and not feeding it.
alby has been guilty of this for a long time.
i’ve mentioned on roar before about crooked feeds and roarers replied that its no longer fed straight because they’re more concerned with collasped scrums. when i said i was an hooker and would often go for a counter hook, by timing my strike behind the oppn hookers feet, i was told that that wasnt part of a hookers job anymore and all they were expected to do was to push.
March 5th 2013 @ 9:24am
Brett McKay said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Mania, certainly the safetly elements around the engagement have become a priority – and that’s not just SANZAR, to be fair – and I do understand the need for that. What I can’t understand is why you’d want to lose the contest after engagement..
March 5th 2013 @ 9:38am
mania said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:38am | Report comment
agree brett and i couldnt answer u as to why lose the contest @ engagement. its not a danger and its something that is easily policed. i prefer the hooking to be a contest
March 5th 2013 @ 6:09am
Red Kev said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:09am | Report comment
I haven’t seen a straight scrum feed in professional rugby since … yeah I can’t even remember, maybe the last time Anthems Whittaker got a run instead of Gregan?
There used to be an art to feeding a scrum advantageously, it still went in the middle and relatively straight but with heavy spin on the top end to make it curl towards the hooker (many a time I went to hook the ball and marveled that my scrumhalf had done more than half the work for me).
Having said that the packs are so low now that opposition hookers don’t actually ‘strike’ anymore they just get the shunt on and try to drive the opposition back to win a penalty (a tighthead is a distant second priority).
March 5th 2013 @ 9:29am
Brett McKay said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Kev, funnily enough, the way the ball is held is set out in 20.6 (b), and all halfbacks are doing this correctly, holding the ball by the points, parallel to the side line. I do remember the ‘spiral feed’ well, think I might even have been pinged for it!
March 5th 2013 @ 6:49am
moaman said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:49am | Report comment
A timely article Brett and I agree that this kind of ‘blind-eye-turning’ by the Refs is both blatant and irritating.
Crooked feeds are just one of a plethora of little things that bug me about the modern game; another is what opposition players do with the ball every time a free kick or penalty is awarded.Placing it behind them,through their legs,retreating with the ball or throwing it away appear to be de rigueur and ALL are performed under the Refs’ noses!
There is also the deliberate touching of the ball over the sideline by benchwarmers and the numerous watercarriers to prevent opposition teams from a quick throw-in. What is the point of having rules designed to allow the speeding-up of play-if teams are illegally being prevented from exploiting them?
Every once in a while we see a renewed focus on some point or another….I recall a vital penalty against my beloved ABs in a 3N game v RSA for a crooked feed…and we all remember a certain NSW winger being yellow/red-carded during a Bledisloe for throwing the ball away over the sideline…..then the Refs go back into hibernation again! Consistancy is what players we all need,surely?
March 5th 2013 @ 6:53am
mania said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:53am | Report comment
what really psses me off if the illegal mauling , truck and trailer, that teams are allowed to get away with.
also the passing of the ball off the ground.
March 5th 2013 @ 12:39pm
Ianmac said | March 5th 2013 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
Truck and trailer ran amok in the Bulls-Force game. To the great cost of the Force.
March 5th 2013 @ 4:17pm
Markus said | March 5th 2013 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
Watched that game on replay, it was ridiculous that was not blown up as offside.
It is no longer a maul as soon as there no defender involved in the contest, and no Force defender was in contact with that Bulls driving pack for a good 2-3 seconds. The second they re-engaged, every Bulls player between the defender and the ball carrier was in an offside position.
March 5th 2013 @ 9:35am
Brett McKay said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Moa, I reckon we could go through the various Laws and write a book on how things aren’t been officiated properly..
March 6th 2013 @ 8:12am
moaman said | March 6th 2013 @ 8:12am | Report comment
Excellent idea Brett! How ’bout you ghost-write it on my behalf?
March 5th 2013 @ 6:56am
Kippa said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:56am | Report comment
While we are at it, scrum half should feed within 3 seconds or it becomes the oppositions.
March 5th 2013 @ 6:57am
mania said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:57am | Report comment
agree kippa – sarel pretorius was guilty of this in the weekend and got away with it
March 5th 2013 @ 9:24am
expatmatt said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:24am | Report comment
and gregan was an absolute master at it as well- used tp pi** me off no end
March 5th 2013 @ 7:09am
Red Kev said | March 5th 2013 @ 7:09am | Report comment
Stable and steady is the wording of the law isn’t it? If the scrumhalf thinks it isn’t he is entitled to delay and ask the ref.
March 5th 2013 @ 9:59am
Brett McKay said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Kev, certainly ‘Set’ isn’t called until both packs are stable and steady, yes….
March 5th 2013 @ 1:12pm
JohnB said | March 5th 2013 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
The Laws say “without delay” on feeding (and requires it to be fed when the ref says so – it can be fed before then, but if the ref says feed it, you must do so), so there’s no need to add a time limit. A matter of enforcing the laws that are there already. The delaying half always complains the scrum isn’t yet steady (and it’s required to be “stationary and parallel” before the half feeds, so the half has an argument there) and as a hooker you would always complain bitterly if the half fed before you were in a position to strike.
To me, enforcing the law on not pushing before the ball is in would be of more value – some of the other problems would more readily fix themselves if that didn’t happen.
It may well be that the big hit on engagement will be outlawed one day for safety reasons, perhaps with the scrum being formed row by row by the referee. Frankly, I’d rather have that than frequent collapses and re-sets.
March 5th 2013 @ 6:59am
Johnno said | March 5th 2013 @ 6:59am | Report comment
The French used to love a good headbutt at scrum time. I reckon Biltongbek and Mania in there scrum days, used to give the occasional welcome to the opposition lol.
March 5th 2013 @ 7:11am
mania said | March 5th 2013 @ 7:11am | Report comment
johnno – i’m aghast that u would think so lowly and accurately of me. i resemble that remark!!
yeah it was always a good way to welcome someone. i remember playing the rimutaka’s prison team and i knew they couldnt afford to get into trouble so in the scrums i’d give the oppn hooker a little head tap on the engage. he hated it and it put him off his game.
the first time i had it done to me on the 2nd scrum i slipped my bind, picked up some mud and smothered the hookers eyes. so funny when he stood up spitting out mud. we made eye contact and i stood my ground and he didnt try anything dirty again for that game.
March 5th 2013 @ 7:54am
Johnno said | March 5th 2013 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Love it mania. A true prop. Some good stories there. A French touring team would know they would get a does back of there tricks if they pack down with you.
March 5th 2013 @ 7:59am
mania said | March 5th 2013 @ 7:59am | Report comment
johnno – sorry to disapoint but i ended up moving to the backs, centres and wing. minimum work and maximum glory. and i was a hooker mainly, tho i often packed down as a LHP
March 5th 2013 @ 8:24am
biltongbek said | March 5th 2013 @ 8:24am | Report comment
I was the epitome of serenity when I played Loosehead, Always looked calmly at my opponent and were always very polite.
A little story
In the early nineties When South African rugby made the step towards mix race rugby, our club got to play one of the first ever mixed race matches against a club from the West Rand.
During the match I noticed the one lock from the opposition team went like a windmill whenever he had posession of the ball, as I went into the ruck, I recieved an elbow to the bottom lip, a little claret could be tasted, and I shrugged it off as one of those things.
Deep into the first half, at another ruck, the same thing happened and once again the claret tasted sweet.
So I turn to my tight head prop, and say to him loud enough, that the next time the poodietang was going to hit the fan.
Not long into the second half, we are attacking on the 22 of the opponent and the same lock enters the ruck and wacks me on the eye with the elbow, on that little vein you can feel just to the sode of you eye socket.
I could actually feel how it was swelling.
Needless to say, by this time my mood is spoiling, so I turn to my tighthead (he was the fighter) and said when this scrum hits, I am going to knock the lock’s block off. He turns to me and say, lets just scrum them all the way back to their tryline.
You can imagine the big eyse in this lock, not sure what I am going to do. Anyway, as the scrum hit, we start grinding these guys into the ground, before they could break up we had pushed them all the way to their tryline.
I have never seen a guy, so sorry for wacking me on the eye.
March 5th 2013 @ 8:27am
mania said | March 5th 2013 @ 8:27am | Report comment
cool story biltongbek
March 5th 2013 @ 8:30am
nickoldschool said | March 5th 2013 @ 8:30am | Report comment
March 5th 2013 @ 7:13am
Justin2 said | March 5th 2013 @ 7:13am | Report comment
Brett – another great article mate, well done. Its an issue in the game that rightly needs to be highlighted and questions asked. It appears you are the only taking up the cause, hats off to you. I think its a disgrace the attitude that appears to be coming from SANZAR and the IRB.
Thanks for also inquiring about the Concussion issue. Its clear as mud now. The Team Doc unless otherwise instructed doe the testing. MDD can also do it if anointed by the team doc.
March 5th 2013 @ 9:51am
Brett McKay said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:51am | Report comment
No problems J2, and you can thank the new SANZAR Media man, Alistair Hogg, for being so helpful in his first week on he job for the reponses.
Re the PSCA, there was a heap of info sent to me, including the full protocols for th PSCA. I’ve actually just had to update this in the article, as the sub-eds had Greg Peters making that quote, when it was actually lifted from the SR Tournament Manual Section 4.3
If you want, an I’m not sure if it will help, but I can paste the full detail here?
March 5th 2013 @ 10:53am
Justin2 said | March 5th 2013 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Thank BM – if you have summarised it as well as you can then thats fine with me mate.
March 5th 2013 @ 1:08pm
Brett McKay said | March 5th 2013 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
I think I’ve given you the main detail you were after, certainly…
March 5th 2013 @ 9:42pm
Charging Rhino said | March 5th 2013 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
Yes Brett great article.
As a former hooker there is nothing more annoying than the opposition scrumhalf feeding the ball so skew that you can’t even have a shot. I used to attack and compete every opposition ball.
I mean you should win your own ball easily however because as a hooker on your own ball you are closer to your scrumhalf than your opposite number 2. So their scrum really has to drill you on the hit to allow their hooker to get his foot in front of yours if the feed is dead straight or even if skew in their favour.
But the point it is has to remain a contest, and their’s nothing like winning a tight head when you’re under pressure to get your teams confidence up.
I have a feeling the refs that the refs will be made aware of this and should police it more in the coming weeks and public pressure builds.
By the way I’d never even heard of Rugby League until I was about 22 years old and watched my first game in London at 23. So I for one don’t really care about that game or why so many Aussie and New Zealand rugby fans are trying to make Rugby similar to League. Rugby is a MUCH bigger sport worldwide so forget about the league fans in Aus. Rugby is defined by scrums, mauls, rucks as well as the running in of try’s. I have no problem with drop goals either…. if they were so easy to execute then why don’t you see them more often? Fact is there is team and individual skill involved to execute these. I wonder what the stats are on how many drop goals there are in an entire Super Rugby tournament vs try’s? I’m guessing about 20 to 1. So which is easier?
Anyway my point is that scrums are vital and should be reffed as fair contest and an integral part of the game. So the IRB and SANZAR should stress this. If you can appreciate that and not just to get the ball out as quickly as possible to run it helter skelter then you don’t truly understand rugby and don’t watch. That is why they created that league game, whenever it was many years ago. But which sport is still by far bigger? I for one love rugby.
Well that’s my say.
March 5th 2013 @ 7:19am
Jack said | March 5th 2013 @ 7:19am | Report comment
The other rule that sees to have gone by the wayside is tackling players who are not in possession. Seems its OK to tackle players ahead of the ball at the breakdown – the Blues looked like gridiron blockers against the Saders. Pocock is tackled and dragged to the ground 20 times a match to stop him contesting for the ball. Has this law been changed?