Larkham agrees with NRC points change

By David Barbeler, David Barbeler is a Roar Guru

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    Wallabies great and Brumbies head coach Stephen Larkham has called for the relaunched National Rugby Championship to increase the value of tries to encourage more attacking rugby.

    Nine teams from around the country, including four from NSW and two from Queensland, were confirmed on Monday as participants in the NRC.

    The 11 week competition will run from late August and aims to be at the forefront of experimental law changes for rugby around the globe.

    Larkham on Tuesday said he’d like to see teams rewarded more for tries to promote free-flowing rugby, which is one of the many proposals being considered by the ARU for the competition.

    “Changing (reducing) the amount of points for penalties is a good idea,” he said on Tuesday.

    “Making it more valuable to score tries is the key.”

    Other laws Larkham would like to see introduced would address the issue of teams giving away penalties inside their own 22m, time wastage at scrums or from players pretending to be injured, and making sure the ball was in play longer throughout the match.

    However the World Cup winning flyhalf, who described himself as “somewhat of a traditionalist”, said it was important that any new laws didn’t diminish the technical aspects of the game.

    He said it was important rugby union remained a code that required people of all shapes and sizes to play for fierce contests at the scrum and lineouts, as opposed to rugby league.

    “Rugby is quite complex and there’s a contest in everything – you wouldn’t want to see that taken away,” he said.

    “You can have big front rowers, tall second rowers.

    “It’s a real element of rugby union and it differs from rugby league.”

    © AAP 2018

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    The Crowd Says (84)

    • March 26th 2014 @ 2:48am
      Johnno said | March 26th 2014 @ 2:48am | ! Report

      -Kicking is a vibrant part of rugby union and is good skill-set of the game. You don’t just want it to be hit ups and running with the ball. Someone who has good tactical takcing or a big boot eg Frans steyn is exciting, and same with skillful field goal kickers eg Frans Steyn, Jannie De Beer.
      -you want kicking-skills rewarded, you don’t just want rugby union to become where 5/8’s a big no 8’s or centre size like in rugby league where less kicking has meant 5/8’s have often just become like big crash ball centres, like in rugby league.Keep the 5/8 a skilled spot in rugby, not a glorified crash-ball centre.

      -Also after a penalty-goal or try is scored, like in Rugby league now in the 2nd half, the clock stops in the last 5 minutes of the game to avoid wasting time.

      -If a penalty is given at line-out time, the team awarded the penalty can opt for a scrum as an option, but only in the 22m Zone and in line, say 5m in where the line-out was. As some teams have stronger scrums and should be awarded that option, if they want it.

      –Bring back the shoulder charge to rugby union (just ban it above the shoulders any where in head and neck)

      –Keep 3 points for a penalty goal, and a field-goal. All you will get is more cynical play and players committing professional-fouls.
      -I like the idea of 3-points for a conversion in a try.
      -Have 40/20’s like in rugby league. So if you kick the ball from your 40/(20 or 22m), you then get the line-out throw.
      -Bring back rucking it would stop all the lazy defenders deliberately lying down in the ruck, to slow down the ball comeing out. You just can’t ruck in the (head+neck) not above the shoulders in other words.

      • Roar Guru

        March 26th 2014 @ 5:03am
        Shop said | March 26th 2014 @ 5:03am | ! Report

        Bring back rucking? YES.
        Shoulder charge? NO WAY!

      • March 26th 2014 @ 7:04am
        Kane said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:04am | ! Report

        -Also after a penalty-goal or try is scored, like in Rugby league now in the 2nd half, the clock stops in the last 5 minutes of the game to avoid wasting time.

        I don’t see why wasting time in the last five minutes is any worse than wasting time in the first five minutes.

        It’s the team that’s chasing the game in the last five minutes own fault for not being better for the first 75min.

      • March 26th 2014 @ 8:19am
        Jack said | March 26th 2014 @ 8:19am | ! Report

        “Keep 3 points for a penalty goal, and a field-goal. All you will get is more cynical play and players committing professional-fouls.”

        I disagree. Make all kicks worth 2 points, but make it an automatic yellow card for the second ruck infringement your team commits in your own half per opposition possession.

        • March 26th 2014 @ 9:17am
          JIM said | March 26th 2014 @ 9:17am | ! Report

          automatic anything is dangerous, becasue it takes away the ability for the referee to use judgement. If the first infringement is major enough, that should be a trip to the bin. I dont understand why it has to be repeated professional infringements before you get sent. In addition, ruck infringements are sometimes a bet each way by a ref, forcing them to give away 3 points may well lead to poor outcomes as well.

          I think that if you have an independent and effective judiciary, you move to a point where a ref can put a player on report and send them to the judiciary for professional misconduct if they repeatedly infringe.

          • March 26th 2014 @ 11:11am
            Bakkies said | March 26th 2014 @ 11:11am | ! Report

            Yep teams will run out of players, limited rucks contested and refs will be hesitant to ping.

            • March 26th 2014 @ 11:48am
              Jack said | March 26th 2014 @ 11:48am | ! Report

              Teams won’t run out of players unless Stuart Berry is refereeing another match where there’s a South African team playing a foreign one – the rule would disincentivise infringing, reduce penalty goals and open the game up.

          • March 26th 2014 @ 11:11am
            Bakkies said | March 26th 2014 @ 11:11am | ! Report

            Yep teams will run out of players, limited rucks contested and refs will be hesitant to ping.

            • March 26th 2014 @ 11:20am
              JIM said | March 26th 2014 @ 11:20am | ! Report

              if teams run out of players, then maybe they need to look at why their players are continueing to generate professional fouls. I am not talking about all infringements, just professional fouls. I would suggest that any professional foul brings the game into disrepute and should be open for longer term punitive action. They need to be removed from the game and as soon as one player gets a week off for doing it, it will stop happening.

              • March 26th 2014 @ 12:27pm
                soapit said | March 26th 2014 @ 12:27pm | ! Report

                making the yellows 5 mins would encourage them to hand out a lot more of them. they’re talking about doing it in league (not sure how much momentum it has)

      • March 26th 2014 @ 12:34pm
        JB said | March 26th 2014 @ 12:34pm | ! Report

        Field goals should be 1 point, a dead lock breaker, how they are worth the same as a penalty is beyond me. If you infringe you deserve to be punished yet if you hold a disciplined defensive line you get punished by the same margin. Also any kick that goes dead is a scrum feed to the opposition unless it’s a field goal, I think it should be the same for field goals. I would be a fan of the following points structure.
        Try 5 points
        conversion 3 points
        Penalty 3 points
        Drop goal 1 point

        It still rewards quality kicking promotes more running rugby given the increased conversion value, No one wants to see a game won by drop goal unless the two teams can’t be split, what jannie de beer did in that world cup set rugby back years, it was an embarrassment to rugby.

        The 40/20 rule outlined above just promotes territory kicking which is boring I’d rather see teams back themselves with ball in hand, this should never happen.

        • March 27th 2014 @ 1:52am
          Johnno said | March 27th 2014 @ 1:52am | ! Report

          It promotes more ball in hand 40/20, the more rules you do to cut and elimnate kicking JB, all you do is make it more easy and predictable “for the defence” to align and set, and set-defesnive patterns, because they know the attacking team have less atracking options at there disposal to use. So the defensive team is ready for a run every time, not a kick, like rugby league which can be so predictable. Rugby’s beauty is it’s endless options and unpredictability, keep it that way. Otherwise less kicking options will turn rugby into endless hit-ups rugby league style

          • March 27th 2014 @ 2:25am
            Katipo said | March 27th 2014 @ 2:25am | ! Report

            @Johnno. Exactly right. Intelligent kicking breaks up the defensive lines and creates space for spectacular tries. This is poorly understood by a lot of rugby observers.

    • March 26th 2014 @ 4:46am
      Justin3 said | March 26th 2014 @ 4:46am | ! Report

      Just play it under the elvs and be done with it

      • March 26th 2014 @ 9:26am
        Sailosi said | March 26th 2014 @ 9:26am | ! Report

        I never want to see or hear those 3 letters ever again.

        • March 26th 2014 @ 10:40am
          Kane said | March 26th 2014 @ 10:40am | ! Report

          elv

          • March 26th 2014 @ 11:41am
            Sailosi said | March 26th 2014 @ 11:41am | ! Report

            I’m not looking.

            • March 26th 2014 @ 6:04pm
              In Brief said | March 26th 2014 @ 6:04pm | ! Report

              Firstly, the majority of the ELVs were adopted, so everytime you watch a match you are experiencing the ELVs. Secnodly the players loved playing under the full ELVs which is the most important test. They were great to watch as well and took a lot of the arbitary 50/50 calls out of the equation.

              • March 26th 2014 @ 6:09pm
                Jerry said | March 26th 2014 @ 6:09pm | ! Report

                Not really, they just made the arbitrary 50/50 calls of less significance. If anything, refs called more marginal calls as they knew it was less likely to decide the match results.

    • March 26th 2014 @ 6:43am
      Bakkies said | March 26th 2014 @ 6:43am | ! Report

      2 points for a pen and 6 for a try will offer more incentive to infringe as tries conceded come at a higher price. Leave the points and laws alone this isn’t mini Rugby.

      • Roar Guru

        March 26th 2014 @ 7:15am
        Diggercane said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:15am | ! Report

        Spot on Bakkies.

        Leave the points alone!

        • Roar Guru

          March 26th 2014 @ 12:35pm
          Eddard said | March 26th 2014 @ 12:35pm | ! Report

          People would have said the exact same thing every time the value of a try was increased. It’s only been 5 points since 1992.

          Fans want to watch teams attempt to score tries. No one ever came home from a game and talked about the great penalty goal attempts they’d seen. If points for tries are increased and at the same time yellow cards are given more strictly for cynical penalties then there won’t be a problem.

          • Roar Guru

            March 26th 2014 @ 6:07pm
            Kane said | March 26th 2014 @ 6:07pm | ! Report

            I’d imagine there is far more penalties now than there was pre 1992

            • Roar Guru

              March 27th 2014 @ 1:15am
              Eddard said | March 27th 2014 @ 1:15am | ! Report

              I doubt it myself. Not per minute of ball in play (which is much higher now than it was pre-1992). Most penalties in rugby aren’t completely cynical. They’re given away because it’s a technical sport that involves physical competition for the ball. That messiness is always going to result in infringements. I’d argue most penalties are given away due to a slight mistake in timing.

              Referees should have the discretion to more harshly penalise cynical penalties (with yellow cards), while I think a kick for touch, tap or attacking scrum is enough for a standard penalty, which is basically just a mistake.

      • March 26th 2014 @ 8:26am
        soapit said | March 26th 2014 @ 8:26am | ! Report

        i agree in theory but you never can know until its put into practice so i’m not averse to giving it a try in a semi pro comp where they will be coached to get as much professionalism out of the rules as they can.

        i wonder if theres going to be an increase in yellows to increase the disincentive?

    • March 26th 2014 @ 7:04am
      Kane said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:04am | ! Report

      Why not make it 20 point trys?

      • Roar Guru

        March 26th 2014 @ 7:15am
        Diggercane said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:15am | ! Report

        10 point conversions?

        • March 26th 2014 @ 7:47am
          Kane said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:47am | ! Report

          Bring back the punt through the post hell make them five points.

      • Roar Guru

        March 26th 2014 @ 7:30am
        AlBo said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:30am | ! Report

        Let’s bring in the ‘safety’ rule too while we’re at it. 2 points if you tackle them in your own goal.

        • Roar Guru

          March 26th 2014 @ 7:32am
          Diggercane said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:32am | ! Report

          Automatic freekick if you catch the halfback in possesion?

          • March 26th 2014 @ 7:48am
            Kane said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:48am | ! Report

            Yellow card if halfback stands at base of ruck with his hands in the air instead of securing the ball.

            • March 26th 2014 @ 8:06am
              Shop said | March 26th 2014 @ 8:06am | ! Report

              Hands on heads if you disagree with the ref.

              • March 26th 2014 @ 10:42am
                Kane said | March 26th 2014 @ 10:42am | ! Report

                Only way to really satisfy their thirst for running rugby is to allocate a point for every meter run. Doesn’t matter if it’s forwards backwards, sideqays, or diagional.

    • March 26th 2014 @ 7:37am
      Darwin Stubbie said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:37am | ! Report

      are they serious about this ? … the game has been screaming out for a 3rd tier and before it starts they’re talking about changing rules and points systems …

      they should be careful here because the main reason for this competition is that the ARU think it’s going to be a game changer when the new SANZAR TV deal is being negotiated – I can’t see NZ and SA giving up revenue if this competition turns into a hybrid of rugby and league

    • March 26th 2014 @ 7:56am
      Jerry said | March 26th 2014 @ 7:56am | ! Report

      My law change – automatic reversal of penalty if a player from the non penalised team pats the penalised player on the back (or claps him or any mock congratulations/thank you). Cut that out.

      • Roar Guru

        March 26th 2014 @ 8:10am
        Diggercane said | March 26th 2014 @ 8:10am | ! Report

        Forfiet of try conversion for ridiculous team celebrations for try scored

      • March 26th 2014 @ 8:30am
        Michael said | March 26th 2014 @ 8:30am | ! Report

        Jerry, you know that Tom Carter has just shelved his retirement plans. Strange it happened just as the Sydney Stars were announced (although he would be eligible for Country as well being from Young)….. he would be getting a lot of penalties if your law was introduced.

      • March 26th 2014 @ 8:51am
        Markus said | March 26th 2014 @ 8:51am | ! Report

        I am all for a player who has given away a stupid penalty at a key time being further mocked for his efforts. Clearly the penalties themselves aren’t getting the message through, maybe outright mockery will.

        • March 26th 2014 @ 12:28pm
          soapit said | March 26th 2014 @ 12:28pm | ! Report

          i agree and the ref should join in the mockery.

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