AFL clubs, it’s time to stop your players appearing on the Footy Show

Mary Konstantopoulos Columnist

By Mary Konstantopoulos, Mary Konstantopoulos is a Roar Expert

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    “I regret the comments I made about Caitlyn Jenner. What I said was not appropriate and I’m sorry to anyone offended.”

    Another week. Another Sam Newman apology.

    This time it was in relation to a gag that went horribly wrong on the AFL Footy Show last week.

    In their game against North Melbourne a couple of weeks ago, the St Kilda cheer squad unveiled a banner which read: “Saints R On A Roll, Believe The Hype, Last Week Wasn’t Pretty, Like This Kardashian Lookalike”. At the bottom of the banner was a photo of Caitlyn Jenner.

    The AFL Footy Show decided it was an opportune moment to target a marginalised group in Australia and make them the butt of one of their ridiculous jokes.

    The ‘joke’ was clearly a set-up. Co-host Billy Brownless asked Sam Newman if he knew who Caitlyn Jenner was. His response?

    “I know who he… it is… Oh well, what is she? Is it a he or a she? … Is it transgender, is it?”

    There are so many things wrong with this comment. A lack of thought. A lack of consideration for other people and clearly a failure to understand how damaging comments like this can be to people who identify as transgender.

    But what was most disappointing about this comment was that I no longer continue to be surprised that Sam Newman says things that are deeply offensive to people. He has history and this history is not confined to just one kind of offensive comment.

    I’ve seen his genitals on television. I’ve seen him wear blackface. I’ve seen him shame respected journalist Caroline Wilson several times, including after she stood up and made it very clear that Eddie McGuire’s joke about drowning her was not appropriate.

    But I’m not angry at Newman anymore. Any person that thinks it’s appropriate to use marginalised groups to get a cheap laugh is not a person whose opinion I’m interested in.

    Instead, I’m angry at the network that continues to give him a platform to air his views on television to millions of people. I’m also angry at the co-hosts who sat through the skit, chuckled uncomfortably and didn’t say anything.

    The fact that this ‘joke’ went ahead says plenty about the type of group think that can go on at major networks.

    We’ve been through this before. Newman says something stupid. Newman is forced to apologise. The network continues to condone his behaviour by giving him chance after chance to offend on national television.

    Television personality Sam Newman leaves the Melbourne Magistrate's courts

    (AAP Image/Joe Castro)

    These apologies no longer mean anything and won’t until he is taken off the air.

    If you are an AFL fan and passionate about diversity, then I don’t expect you to be someone who watches the AFL Footy Show in the first place (you probably watch Marngrook instead).

    But dwindling ratings don’t seem to be enough to force this show off the air.

    I encourage you to use your voices. Tell your footy clubs that you don’t like the sort of pranks pulled on the show and that you no longer want the players that represent your club to appear on the show.

    The hosts of The Outer Sanctum podcast last week rightly called out that “the standard you walk past is the standard you accept”. If a player from your team appears on the show and one of these ‘gags’ is made, are you comfortable that your club is associated with that episode?

    Are you comfortable with putting your player in a position where they are forced to either be part of gags like this or speak out in a difficult environment?

    I’m certainly not, which is why I wrote to the GWS Giants about it this week and I sincerely hope action is taken.

    If our sports truly are to be inclusive for everyone, then people like Sam Newman should no longer have a place in the conversation, and initiatives like ‘Rainbow Round’, ‘Indigenous Round’ and ‘Pride Games’ need more support and celebration around them.

    Coincidentally, Newman’s comments last week came ahead of the news that a transgender woman is making preparations to try out for the second season of the AFLW. At the moment, this woman has decided to remain anonymous.

    Can you blame her? Apart from wanting her football to do the talking, it’s clear that there is still plenty of work to be done to make our sports truly inclusive.

    With the support of the AFL and the AFL Player’s Union, she will be trying out at several Victorian clubs.

    She has been approved by the International Olympic Committee as a transgender woman so this will not be a barrier to her playing AFL. What may be a barrier is her talent or whether a club is willing to take on someone that doesn’t fit a traditional mould.

    The AFLW broke ground for so many wonderful reasons last year – for improved ratings, the amount of interest, the quality of talent and above all, the celebration of diversity.

    After all the ground AFLW broke earlier this year, I’m confident the AFL is progressive enough to be able to give this woman an opportunity.

    Nobody tell Sam Newman though.

    Mary Konstantopoulos
    Mary Konstantopoulos

    Mary Konstantopoulos is a lawyer, sports advocate and proud owner and founder of the Ladies Who empire, including Ladies who League, Ladies who Legspin, Ladies who Lineout and Ladies who Leap. You can find her podcast on iTunes and find her on Twitter @mary__kaye and @ladieswholeague.

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    The Crowd Says (283)

    • June 28th 2017 @ 5:23am
      Christo the Daddyo said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:23am | ! Report

      it seems that despite the majority of the population simply moving on as a society, there is still a noisy rump (largely older white males it seems) who long for ‘simpler times’ when coal was the only source of power, women knew their place and anyone different could be made fun of without fear of retribution.

      Sigh…

      • Roar Guru

        June 28th 2017 @ 10:12am
        BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:12am | ! Report

        Its a joke at Caitlin Jenner or Bruce Kardashian or what or whoever they are, who cares. Why is it offensive to question someone gender when they did know it themselves. I think society and the AFL have bigger problems

        • Roar Guru

          June 28th 2017 @ 10:16am
          Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:16am | ! Report

          Question – how does someone going through a crisis over their gender impact you? Why do you need to have an opinion on it?

          • Roar Guru

            June 28th 2017 @ 10:24am
            BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:24am | ! Report

            When thier stupid tv show gets planted all over the tv and my children ask why is that man dressed like a women. Thats why. If someone is prepared to but thier live on tv they have to cop whatever comes thier way. Personally i think a gender identity crisis is a trouble curse, and i would not wish it on anybody. But this idiot just did it for a tv show and it backfired.

            • June 30th 2017 @ 11:40am
              Shane said | June 30th 2017 @ 11:40am | ! Report

              Don’t know how to change a channel? Probably shouldn’t have a TV, then. Or kids, if you can’t manage either their exposure to uncomfortable topics, or their questions about them. A tone of unfounded angst in your comments.

          • Roar Guru

            June 28th 2017 @ 10:42am
            BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:42am | ! Report

            Putting your so called gender crisis on international television in a hope to make a fortune is not a gender crisis but a attention and cash grab attempt. Thankfully it backfired and no one cares anymore about him or her or whatever they are. A gender crisis would be a terrible thing but this clown just wanted to expliot it for money. So they deserve all the flack they get. And when my children are suspected to seeing this garbage on tv and asking why is that man dressed like a woman that gives me the right for an opinion.

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 10:46am
              Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:46am | ! Report

              Yeah but the criticism she’s copping isn’t couched in terms of just criticizing Kaitlyn Jenner, it’s criticizing all trans people. It’s her, by the way.

              Love the Helen Lovejoy “WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN” sign-off too. You must be a rubbish parent if you can’t explain it to your kids.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 10:53am
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:53am | ! Report

                I dont have to explain to my children why some bloke what be become a woman. Its not right and blasphemous, thats what i tell them.

              • June 29th 2017 @ 7:16am
                Kaniel Outis said | June 29th 2017 @ 7:16am | ! Report

                Big J: You have no understanding of how society enforces rigid gender roles on people. There are more genders than just masculine and feminine. Some people are happy being cys gender (that is conforming to societal expectations), whereas other people aren’t. Gender is both fluid and a social construct. As much as our politicians would like to think it was still 1492, it is actually 2017, and many of today’s youth are bucking the cys gender trend, save for the hipsters who represent the last bastion of frontier society masculinity. It is not surprising that a handful of hipsters are attracted to far right politics. Not everyone is comfortable with the body they are born in…so get used it. Parliament and corporations are dominated by cys gender white middle aged men but society is diverse. It is time for a diverse range of opinions.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 10:55am
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:55am | ! Report

                If it’s religious objections, fair enough. That’s your belief and you’re entitled to raise your kids that way.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 11:03am
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:03am | ! Report

                Thank you, all the best to you my friend.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 11:09am
                Cat said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:09am | ! Report

                Religion – the worst excuse.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 11:16am
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:16am | ! Report

                Ok its my own personal believe that changing gender is wrong im not hiding behind religious beliefs and straight out believe it to be wrong. I grew up in a time when men were men a women were women and everybody could tell the difference
                Happy now.???

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 11:24am
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:24am | ! Report

                No, you grew up in a time where people hid their personal problems and committed suicide because society didn’t allow them to talk about it. Don’t pretend this is a recent invention.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 11:38am
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:38am | ! Report

                No i grew up in a town that would not even consider a person changing thier gender because that was never thought of because again men where men and women were women. Maybe i was just lucky. No one committed suicide for any personal problems. If you had a problem with something you took care of it yourself you did not go telling everyone. Again gender Transition was never entered into anyone minds cause again its wrong and not natural.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 11:42am
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:42am | ! Report

                Trans people make up a really tiny proportion of the population (scaremongering aside) – most people would go their whole lives without meeting one.

                Like I said above, if you’re religious and want to raise your kids a certain way that’s your call but at the same time you have no right to dictate to others how they lead their lives.

                Love your neighbor as yourself and all that

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 11:51am
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:51am | ! Report

                Fair enough

              • June 28th 2017 @ 1:03pm
                Me said | June 28th 2017 @ 1:03pm | ! Report

                Stay strong BigJ…there silent majority agrees with you.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 3:28pm
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 3:28pm | ! Report

                Oh i m well aware of that. Im just one of the ones who is not afraid to say it.

              • June 28th 2017 @ 9:25pm
                Mark said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:25pm | ! Report

                He’s actually part of the ever-shrinking minority actually.

              • June 29th 2017 @ 7:25am
                hal said | June 29th 2017 @ 7:25am | ! Report

                Andrew Bolt is that you? Or could it be Corey Bernardi?

                You obviously get your opinions from Rupert Murdoch and his parliamentary puppets.

              • June 30th 2017 @ 1:06pm
                MickyC said | June 30th 2017 @ 1:06pm | ! Report

                I agree with Me and BigJ, the majority is with them. It’s not that we bear any ill will to these people, we just don’t feel the need to kowtow to the victimhood narrative.

                I hope any one with a mental illness can get the help they need.

              • June 28th 2017 @ 11:52am
                Agent11 said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:52am | ! Report

                I’ll give transgender people the BOD but I really don’t understand it. I feel there should be more focus on trying to change ones internal perspective than external appearance to deal with their problems or inner conflict. And if we are changing into a world where there is no gender roles and less barriers between the 2 sexes then why would someone think they need a vagina rather than a penis?

              • June 28th 2017 @ 1:10pm
                Basil said | June 28th 2017 @ 1:10pm | ! Report

                Paul D, are you calling this man, whom you’ve never met, a rubbish parent?

                How dare anyone have an opposing opinion too yours.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 2:43pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 2:43pm | ! Report

                Again with the intellectual incapacity from the right. He can have his opinion and I’m entitled to disagree with it. Free speech does not mean and has never meant that your views cannot be disputed. You can call me whatever homophobic slurs you like and I’ll laugh in your face. Deal with it you cretins.

              • June 28th 2017 @ 9:16pm
                Basil said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:16pm | ! Report

                I don’t think you understand….You’re calling him a rubbish parent?

              • June 28th 2017 @ 3:16pm
                Basil said | June 28th 2017 @ 3:16pm | ! Report

                Paul D, Now you are resorting to labelling and name calling? Why?

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 4:44pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:44pm | ! Report

                Because engaging in a serious debate gives credence to these sort of views.

                Alan Finkel said it best to Malcolm Roberts – it’s important to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain leaks out. The little tinfoil wearer was speechless

              • June 28th 2017 @ 9:17pm
                Basil said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:17pm | ! Report

                Serious debate leads to name calling when you don’t agree?

              • June 28th 2017 @ 6:06pm
                covfefe said | June 28th 2017 @ 6:06pm | ! Report

                “You can call me whatever homophobic slurs you like and I’ll laugh in your face. Deal with it you cretins.”

                And yet, you the only one labeling people here and calling them names when they disagrees with you. By my reckoning, if you can’t act civilly on a website, I doubt very much you would only “laugh” in someones face if they called you a bad name in person.

                And I hope you haven’t got kids yourself, because with a parent like you, they would never be able to think for themselves, and would probably verbally abuse them or worse.

                And I imagine can you saying to them “your a big person, you can take it, just like your old man”

                But you really can’t and your posts speak volumes on this.

                Agree to disagree, but being A belligerent A***hole when you do doesn’t make you any better them, even if their argument is totally ridiculous.

                And by the way I don’t like Womens AFL comp. Feel free to twist the into a crime against humanity you want as its always amusing to watch you act calm/collected and not let anything get to you 🙂

              • June 28th 2017 @ 9:27pm
                Mark said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:27pm | ! Report

                See, you sound like you’d be a rubbish parent as well.
                Not name calling, just an astute observation.

              • June 29th 2017 @ 7:29am
                Kaniel Outis said | June 29th 2017 @ 7:29am | ! Report

                I would rather have the enlightened left leaning Lord Paul as a parent than the fear mongering Big J.

              • June 28th 2017 @ 9:29pm
                Mitcher said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:29pm | ! Report

                Why whenever you’re trying to stump for lofty ideals, do you so regularly feel the need to throw insults at people.

                Seems sort of hypocritical. And completely unlikely to bring anyone over to your way of thinking.

                Do you want to convince people of the strength of your position, or just trot around on your high horse looking down.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 9:33pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:33pm | ! Report

                Oh I’d be absolutely terrible. Main reason I’m not having any. Of course I was born gay so you lot wouldn’t want me having kids anyway, even if I was really good at it.

                As to why I write the way I write – because it’s the internet, it’s what you do. Why would I bother to write civilly, when no-one ever changed anyone’s mind on the internet with rational debate or otherwise in a topic like this?

                I think it’s hilarious the people jumping in here to tell me how offended they are by me, I really do.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 9:56pm
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:56pm | ! Report

                I aint offended and im the one you had a crack at. And what do you mean you lot would not want me having kids. Thats nature my friend its physically impossible for two people of the same gender to bare a child. As for raising one, personally i disagree, it should not happen. Society may have a different view. But let me ask you this. Your a gay man would you liked to off been raised without your mother. I hope im not getting to person just curious about your answer. Free feel to tell me to bugger off if the question offends.

              • June 29th 2017 @ 9:29am
                TheOne said | June 29th 2017 @ 9:29am | ! Report

                Paul
                Perhaps Sam Newman thinks the same about his TV show and is amused by the offence he causes
                On that basis he can do and say what he likes and you would support him?

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 10:20pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:20pm | ! Report

                Honestly mate I regret the crack about the rubbish parenting, I do this from time to time – make a nasty jibe that ultimately winds up detracting from the argument I’m trying to make. Definitely a flaw I need to work on.

                I have great parents for which I am very fortunate

              • Roar Guru

                June 29th 2017 @ 6:46am
                BigJ said | June 29th 2017 @ 6:46am | ! Report

                Dont worry about the parenting comment mate i been called alot worse. Now to pick you brain. You seem like an intelligent person, which my top ten players list i want to continue doing afl lists and would like your opinion on what you would think are the lions top ten???

              • Roar Guru

                June 29th 2017 @ 9:10am
                Paul D said | June 29th 2017 @ 9:10am | ! Report

                Off the top of my head and in some semblance of order

                Beams
                Zorko
                Rockliff
                Robinson
                Martin
                McStay
                Andrews
                Rich
                Mayes
                Hipwood

              • Roar Guru

                June 29th 2017 @ 9:16am
                Cat said | June 29th 2017 @ 9:16am | ! Report

                Paul, I think BigJ is doing ‘of all time’ top 10 lists.

              • Roar Guru

                June 29th 2017 @ 10:01am
                BigJ said | June 29th 2017 @ 10:01am | ! Report

                Speaking of top ten, cat do you read my Geelong top ten lists??? Just curiuos of your thougts. I know i left off Polly Farmer and i can rightly given myself an uppercut, but i think the rest of the list is pretty fair.

              • Roar Guru

                June 29th 2017 @ 9:47am
                Paul D said | June 29th 2017 @ 9:47am | ! Report

                Oh, that would make more sense actually

                Michael Voss
                Simon Black
                Jonathan Brown
                Jason Akermanis
                Justin Leppitsch
                Alistair Lynch
                Nigel Lappin
                Chris Johnson
                Daniel Bradshaw
                Luke Power

              • Roar Guru

                June 29th 2017 @ 9:57am
                BigJ said | June 29th 2017 @ 9:57am | ! Report

                Thanks cat, Paul that list is pretty much what i have, excellent list. I get to work on it shortly. Thanks mate.

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 10:58am
              AdelaideDocker said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:58am | ! Report

              “A gender crisis would be a terrible thing but this clown just wanted to expliot it for money.”

              An olympic Gold medalist and patriarch of the KARDASHIAN family wanted to exploit his deeply personal crisis for money. Sounds legit.

              Edit: sorry, didn’t see that you might’ve been objecting due to religion. that’s totally fine, and I wasn’t trying to insult you 🙂

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 11:06am
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:06am | ! Report

                No offense taken mate, your entitled to have your say. But i say again a Kardashian exploits something for money. Thats the most legit sentence ever. What is worse is that the world lets them.

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 4:39pm
              XI said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:39pm | ! Report

              Here’s a tip: when your kids ask “why is that person doing that thing?” You can answer “because they want to” and it’ll cover so very many things.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 4:41pm
                AdelaideDocker said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:41pm | ! Report

                Oh so true.

                “Because they can” also works.

                Btw, great to see you back! How was Italy – I think it was Italy you went to?

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 5:26pm
                XI said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:26pm | ! Report

                Hey AD!

                Still in Europe. Just saw this and couldn’t not comment.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 5:35pm
                AdelaideDocker said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:35pm | ! Report

                Oh awesome! I’m legit very jealous!

                I wanna head back to Europe so badly…

                Enjoy the rest of your trip, dude.

        • June 28th 2017 @ 3:22pm
          col in paradise said | June 28th 2017 @ 3:22pm | ! Report

          So Big J – a Town here Men were Men and sheep were nervous no doubt !!!!

          I grew up in small country towns and worked on and owned rural properties and have now been living in the Far North for 15 years..and have 5 children..and had and have no problem explaining diversity and transgender people and the clown (yes I think he is a money grabbing idiot like his whole family)..I don’t think pushing your dislikes and prejudices on your children is great parenting…in fact as teenagers they are pretty much totally on top of this issue and I would worry if I was you what they really think about you and your prejudices behind your back…. or do you lock them up in the attic to avoid the planet….???

          • Roar Guru

            June 28th 2017 @ 4:22pm
            BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:22pm | ! Report

            When did i say that i disliked transgenders???? I said its wrong and not natural. Plus i grew up in Rocky so no sheep just bulls to tackle, crocs to wrestle and women to marry. I dont know what sheep has to do with any of this.??? And raising my children to believe that women are women and men are men. A man marries a woman and nothing different, if thats wrong then the world is in far worse shape then ever imagined. Do you have a son? What would you do if he wanted to be transgender???

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 4:26pm
              AdelaideDocker said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:26pm | ! Report

              Mate, if you think transgender is “wrong and not natural” there’s a decent chance you dislike them.

              It also appears that you’re not a fan of gay marriage!

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 4:46pm
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:46pm | ! Report

                Not agreeing with ones lifestyle choice and disliking them for it are two completely different things. I hate alcohol and drugs yet i work in a bottleshop. Do i hate every customer that walks through the door, of course not. And i have worked with transgenders before and they were quite likeable. Just dont agree with it. Of coutse im totally opposed to gay marriage. I even have a gay brother in law who is also opposed to it.

              • June 28th 2017 @ 9:30pm
                Mark said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:30pm | ! Report

                They’re actually very closely linked, no matter what you tell yourself.

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 4:28pm
              Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:28pm | ! Report

              Why wouldn’t you just love him unconditionally? I think the human population size is sufficiently large enough now that we don’t need everyone to be breeding to guarantee survival.

              I am gay and I know plenty of gay friends who had parents who raised their kids the old fashioned way and tried to beat it out of them. They failed of course, because it’s not a choice, it’s just the way you are. Most of them now regret ostracising their kids and the loneliness in their old age. Some don’t regret it and have disowned them.

              Either way it’s very sad, and most, given their time over, would do it different.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 4:32pm
                AdelaideDocker said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:32pm | ! Report

                Fantastic comment, dude.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 4:55pm
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:55pm | ! Report

                Well fortunately enough for me i only have daughters (punishment for previous sins assure you) so i never have to cross that bridge. So dont know how to answer that.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 5:25pm
                Rick Disnick said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:25pm | ! Report

                I have not read much on this thread so far (not a Footy Show fan), but this comment from Paul is spot on.

                Nothing else to say, which is pretty unusual for me.

              • Columnist

                June 28th 2017 @ 9:55pm
                Mary Konstantopoulos said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:55pm | ! Report

                Paul D, I just wanted to say I have really enjoyed all your comments throughout this piece. Thank you for your compassion, for your courage to speak out and for your sensible writing.

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 5:32pm
              Rick Disnick said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:32pm | ! Report

              No such thing as natural or unnatural in my opinion.

              Whether there is a god or not (I have no idea or care), we were given the ability to manipulate the environment at will. Transgenders are no different.

              If we weren’t meant to do it, then we shouldn’t have been given the ability in the first place.

              Biogenetics is frightening for some also. Humanity will have the ability to manipulate the human genome in ways you could not possible imagine in the not so distant future.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 5:39pm
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:39pm | ! Report

                And thats whats wrong. Doctors playing god and changing people genders, its wrong and should be illegal. Human beings do not have the natural ability to can genders, if we did wed not be humans would we. Shame on any doctor that perfroms a trans gender surgery.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 5:53pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:53pm | ! Report

                Humans don’t have the natural ability to fly either. Ever been on a plane?

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 6:00pm
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 6:00pm | ! Report

                Really Paul thats the best you can come up with. A mode of transportation does not compare to this. I say this we human can change gender without surgery thats when ill accept it.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 6:10pm
                XI said | June 28th 2017 @ 6:10pm | ! Report

                I guess you don’t like vaccines and if you got sick with heart disease you’d refuse all medical treatment since “if we can’t heal without surgery, then we shouldn’t do it”

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 6:20pm
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 6:20pm | ! Report

                What a bloody stupid thing to say. How can you compare being alive and healthy to changing genders its natural to want to say alive. Its not natural to change genders.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 6:23pm
                AdelaideDocker said | June 28th 2017 @ 6:23pm | ! Report

                What do transgender people do to personally affect you? Apart from apparently being a nuisance to explain to your children, there probably isn’t much they do to make your life worse than it is.

                I respect you holding your opinion, but come on dude. This is getting fairly discriminatory now.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 6:26pm
                Cat said | June 28th 2017 @ 6:26pm | ! Report

                I suppose in your world, BigJ, children born through the use of IVF are ‘unnatural’ and children born with cleft palates should never have corrective plastic surgery because that’s not natural, nor should any plastic surgery be allowed using your ‘natural’ criteria. Hope you don’t go bald or want to dye the gray out.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 7:41pm
                BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 7:41pm | ! Report

                Im already going grey and if i go bald that will be the least of my problems. Died my hair once never again. Anyway i think thats enough on this for one day a pleasant evening to you all

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 7:40pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 7:40pm | ! Report

                BigJ its not natural to have your heart replaced either but people have been doing that for decades

                Come on, this is just flat out prejudice now. Maybe you’re not aware but you’re hating on these people for what? Again as AD said – how does it personally affect you what these people do with their lives?

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 8:13pm
                Rick Disnick said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:13pm | ! Report

                Define human? We are nothing more than the product of evolution, BigJ.

                I’m not dissing your argument or beliefs; they are valid…from a certain point of view.

                Humans will continue to evolve, that I’m sure of. We always have and always will.

                If you want to draw a line in the sand limiting that evolution, fine. But don’t expect others to hold true to such values.

                Cyborgs, clones, hybrids may seem sci-fi, but the reality is: We have already achieved such greatness as a species. Transsexuals are the same — only possible through human innovation in the field of medicine. I love it!

                Our ability as a species is unsurpassed. Every weapon devised, advancements in communications, bio engineering etc will be our saviour. We are doomed if we never leave this planet, and the knowledge gained in transgender surgical interventions will only aid in our quest to leave this planet.

                Just thought I’d bring a completely different perspective to this conversation. 🙂

              • June 28th 2017 @ 8:25pm
                GJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:25pm | ! Report

                Funny, I was thinking along the same lines a little earlier. I cannot help but think that we are on the cusp of monumental change as a result of advances in science, medicine, computing etc. And I think it inevitable that we need to explore and possibly populate other parts of the universe.

                Gender and sexuality seem to be pretty small amongst all of this. Humans will need to change and adapt (how I am not sure) in order to survive and thrive in new environments. I think the changes we will need to make to this will ultimately dwarf changes in gender as a result of surgery and hormone and other supplements we are discussing.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 8:40pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:40pm | ! Report

                I love you Rick

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 8:50pm
                Rick Disnick said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:50pm | ! Report

                I’ll take that, Paul.

                Most of the time I’m in epic arguments being called a wa#ker on this site by a limited few.

                GJ — totally agree. I was born 1000 years too soon.

                However, our descendants will look upon the electronic era in awe, so in many ways, I’m proud to be part of it.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 8:58pm
                AdelaideDocker said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:58pm | ! Report

                Most of the time I’m in epic arguments being called a wa#ker on this site by a limited few.

                Only usually on the soccer tab 😉

                Oh, thought you might wanted to know that I passed my German test + wider course. And I’m a day into recovery from wisdom teeth with no pain whatsoever so far. Been a good week for me!

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 9:08pm
                Rick Disnick said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:08pm | ! Report

                Glückwünsche.

                Ich wünsche Ihnen eine baldige Genesung.

                I hope I got that right. 🙂

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 9:16pm
                AdelaideDocker said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:16pm | ! Report

                You’re a f%^$ing champion, dude.

              • June 29th 2017 @ 7:35pm
                Agent11 said | June 29th 2017 @ 7:35pm | ! Report

                “If Science allows us to do it, then its right”… wow this is a scary way of thinking right here. Humans need to protect themselves (and the planet) from themselves.

        • June 28th 2017 @ 10:46pm
          The Auteur said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:46pm | ! Report

          The AFL is full of bogans here. What do you expect?

      • Columnist

        June 28th 2017 @ 9:51pm
        Mary Konstantopoulos said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:51pm | ! Report

        And it’s attitudes like that Christo which make my mum say really sad things sometimes like ‘this is why the world will never change’.

        • Roar Guru

          June 28th 2017 @ 10:05pm
          BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:05pm | ! Report

          Hi mary apologies if I have blown your article way out of proportion. Those bloody Kardashians mob boggle the mind sometimes.

    • June 28th 2017 @ 5:43am
      Billy boy said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:43am | ! Report

      How about we just target Sam, rather than everyone else. Punish the guilty…

      • June 28th 2017 @ 9:30am
        mdso said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:30am | ! Report

        Are you saying the others in he show are just go along with Sam’s jokes and Billy’s stupidity because it is thought to be funny? I stopped watching the Footy Show quite awhile ago because I was sick of the misogynist jokes.

        The NRL Footy Show do not have to stoop to this kind of hurtful humour to keep an audience nor do Marngrook and both are engaging and entertaining and I am not a rugby fan.

        Sam you are better than this but unfortunately Billy is what he is.

    • June 28th 2017 @ 7:08am
      Maurice said | June 28th 2017 @ 7:08am | ! Report

      The show has been lame and weak for a number of years, the only people left watching it are those waiting for Newmans offensive jokes. Let the ignorant and arrogant have there hour of amusement as there lives are pretty sad

      • June 28th 2017 @ 1:01pm
        Gecko said | June 28th 2017 @ 1:01pm | ! Report

        Exactly, so the fact that Mary has watched so many episodes (she cites many of them) makes you wonder if she’s a masochist.

        Most of us stopped watching fifteen years ago.

        • Columnist

          June 28th 2017 @ 9:58pm
          Mary Konstantopoulos said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:58pm | ! Report

          Gecko, I don’t watch the show. But I read widely and listen to plenty of sporting podcasts and am brave enough to speak up when I don’t like what I see in particular segments.

          I don’t actually watch any television at all (other than live sport).

          I understand the ‘don’t watch it’ argument and I don’t watch it. But where I can use my voice to write about something I’m passionate about, that’s what I’ll do.

    • June 28th 2017 @ 8:24am
      Bob said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:24am | ! Report

      I don’t think Caroline Wilson was ever respected by anyone who knew even the slightest thing about football. Criticism of her is always warranted. She gives it out, but when it comes time to take it she pulls the sexist card – typical postmodern Marxist move.

      • June 28th 2017 @ 9:05am
        Slane said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:05am | ! Report

        You clearly don’t know what the word Marxist means.

        • June 28th 2017 @ 9:44am
          Tyrell Gains said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:44am | ! Report

          Suspect it’s more that you don’t know what it means champ.

          • June 28th 2017 @ 9:57am
            Slane said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:57am | ! Report

            Nope. Definitely you, pal.

            • June 28th 2017 @ 1:31pm
              Bob said | June 28th 2017 @ 1:31pm | ! Report

              No Slane – you don’t know the tactics of Marxists. Postmodernism is essentially Marxism as distanced from Communism (you know, because when the body count crept up to 200 million they would no longer claim they were on the side of good). So they just flipped it from working class against the middle and upper class to pitting individual groups (men v Women, race, sexuality, whatever) against each other. It has the same purpose – to impose a Marxist utopia, but is just another method of doing so.

              I would recommend you read Jacques Derrida to understand this, however given you didn’t get this basic concept I suspect you might think it’s a good idea.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 1:48pm
                Dalgety Carrington said | June 28th 2017 @ 1:48pm | ! Report

                That’s a confused and murky interpretation of ideologies and philosophies, really that approach seems to just lump together things they don’t don’t like on the surface.

                Post-modernism will have variants in approach and view according to what field (and who) it is being applied. Marxism is traditionally in the modernist school of philosophy.

                Maybe you could have some people who adhere to some Marxists philosophies, who also have a post-modernist take, but one is certainly not inextricably intertwined with the other.

                Someone’s selling you an agenda if they’re trying to convince you post-modernism and Marxism are the same thing.

              • June 28th 2017 @ 3:31pm
                col in paradise said | June 28th 2017 @ 3:31pm | ! Report

                I gather you have plenty of time on your hands to get overly obsesses with Political philosophies and passionate about them or you have lost the plot….take a walk and have a lie down and rest and clear the head before those Marxists in your head send you insane….!!!!!

                Viva La Revolution !!!!!

              • June 29th 2017 @ 1:13am
                dontknowmuchaboutfootball said | June 29th 2017 @ 1:13am | ! Report

                I’m intrigued, Bob. Which specific work by Derrida should I go to to get this understanding of Marxism and Postmodernism?

      • June 28th 2017 @ 9:10am
        Birdman said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:10am | ! Report

        “I don’t think Caroline Wilson was ever respected by anyone who knew even the slightest thing about football”.

        you lost me with your first sentence Bob.

      • June 28th 2017 @ 9:19am
        Christo the Daddyo said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:19am | ! Report

        Er, what? I think she’s one of the best AFL writers going around.

        And can you just clarify for the rest of us – do you think the way she was treated by The Footy Show was OK?

        • June 28th 2017 @ 5:12pm
          Andrew Browne said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:12pm | ! Report

          Lots of AFL fans have no time for her. It’s not an unusual view,

      • Roar Guru

        June 28th 2017 @ 9:23am
        Penster said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:23am | ! Report

        And yet she’s leading in The Age footy tipping ……….

        • June 28th 2017 @ 10:26am
          Tyrell Gains said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:26am | ! Report

          A rolled gold barometer for footy knowledge if ever there was one, right?

          • Roar Guru

            June 28th 2017 @ 11:08am
            Penster said | June 28th 2017 @ 11:08am | ! Report

            Well it’s not a bad start, plenty of “experts” aren’t doing as well. You can hate her if you like, but give credit where credit’s due – she’s not dumb and she knows her footy.

      • Roar Guru

        June 28th 2017 @ 10:08am
        Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:08am | ! Report

        Caro is one of the best journalists in the industry. Regularly is first to the punch on club news and the state of the game.

      • June 28th 2017 @ 12:28pm
        Milo said | June 28th 2017 @ 12:28pm | ! Report

        Struggling with application of “post modern” lad?

      • Columnist

        June 28th 2017 @ 9:59pm
        Mary Konstantopoulos said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:59pm | ! Report

        You’re right. It was completely way over the top that she called Eddie McGuire out when he made jokes about ‘drowning her’.

      • June 29th 2017 @ 8:20am
        hal said | June 29th 2017 @ 8:20am | ! Report

        Carolyn Wilson a Marxist? It’s funny I have never seen her down at rallies. She isn’t an Anarchist either as I haven’t seen her at any Anarchist events I have frequented lately. Maybe she was masked up last Sunday down at the anti fascist counter rally; hence I didn’t see her. Next time I pass a Red Flag paper sale downtown I will definitely look out for Carro. If they ask me if I want to buy a Red Flag, instead of saying I am an Anarchist, I will say I already bought one from Carro.

    • Roar Guru

      June 28th 2017 @ 8:29am
      Kaks said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:29am | ! Report

      The generation of the offended.

      • June 28th 2017 @ 9:16am
        Basil said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:16am | ! Report

        As a society we are obsessed with the feeling of empowerment we gain from being offended.

        Labelling others as sexists, homophobes, racists etc separates us to a level above such ones.

        • June 28th 2017 @ 9:45am
          Tyrell Gains said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:45am | ! Report

          So true. Sad that the Roar has embraced this virtue signalling identity politics nonsense. Used to be a great sports site.

          • Roar Guru

            June 28th 2017 @ 9:51am
            Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:51am | ! Report

            Says the guy who’s never contributed a single article or even created an account

            I don’t think you’ve got much skin in the game mate

            • June 28th 2017 @ 10:25am
              Tyrell Gains said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:25am | ! Report

              Yeah! Who needs readers anyway!

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 10:47am
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:47am | ! Report

                Vote with your feet then. Much as I’m advocating with the footy show, if enough people leave the site then they’ll stop running articles like this. Power to the people mate!

              • June 28th 2017 @ 6:12pm
                covfefe said | June 28th 2017 @ 6:12pm | ! Report

                And if your and indicator of a registered poster here, then this sites in really big trouble.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 7:42pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 7:42pm | ! Report

                Oh I dunno Donald, you took the time to reply to me. Another website click for the Roar’s ad revenue

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 10:54am
              BigJ said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:54am | ! Report

              I have to agree with Paul on this one mate. Sounds like to dont have a leg to stand on

          • June 28th 2017 @ 12:23pm
            Christo the Daddyo said | June 28th 2017 @ 12:23pm | ! Report

            And yet you still care enough to log in and make a comment about “this virtue signalling identity politics nonsense”…

            You could have not bothered and only commented on other articles, yes?

          • June 29th 2017 @ 8:28am
            hal said | June 29th 2017 @ 8:28am | ! Report

            I am into class politics not identity politics. Capitalism thrives on a divided working class. The state uses all forms of bigotry to try and maintain a divided working class. The capitalist class knows that a united working class is its greatest threat. The working class is international, and multi gender. I usually keep my political commentary to anti-capitalist websites and I usually just comment on football on this site, but there are times when it is necessary to mix sport and politics.

        • June 28th 2017 @ 10:52am
          Birdman said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:52am | ! Report

          Basil – I think you really mean “As a society we are obsessed with the feeling of empowerment we gain from offending others”

          Offend away old mate but be prepared to be called out for it.

          • June 28th 2017 @ 2:08pm
            Basil said | June 28th 2017 @ 2:08pm | ! Report

            I didn’t mean to offend.

            It just shows how subjective offence can be.Either side (those in favour, and those who are not) can be offended by a word or action. Its does not reinforce that they are right or wrong.

            My point was, surely we can disagree without taking offence?

            • June 28th 2017 @ 3:15pm
              Birdman said | June 28th 2017 @ 3:15pm | ! Report

              agreed – if the discussion is respectful in the first place but a lot of it doesn’t start from that perspective unfortunately.

        • Roar Guru

          June 28th 2017 @ 3:13pm
          Penster said | June 28th 2017 @ 3:13pm | ! Report

          As a society I’d argue that we’ve been enjoying the feeling of empowerment by being sexist, homophobic, racist etc. Women, gays, ethnic minorities have called TIME on all that, and look at the outrage from their former overlords!

          • Columnist

            June 28th 2017 @ 10:24pm
            Mary Konstantopoulos said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:24pm | ! Report

            I for one welcome our new insect overlords.

            • Roar Guru

              June 29th 2017 @ 2:25pm
              BigJ said | June 29th 2017 @ 2:25pm | ! Report

              Thank you kent Brockman

      • June 28th 2017 @ 9:24am
        Krackpot said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:24am | ! Report

        Your so edgy!

      • June 28th 2017 @ 9:40am
        northerner said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:40am | ! Report

        Well, when you’ve got the generation of the offensive to deal with, whaddya expect?

        • Roar Guru

          June 28th 2017 @ 2:29pm
          Kaks said | June 28th 2017 @ 2:29pm | ! Report

          Sigh…I just wish people like this would move on with their life instead of having to ‘fight’ (what exactly are you fighting?) because someone said something that you took offence to. Life’s too short. Get on with it.

          • Roar Guru

            June 28th 2017 @ 4:37pm
            XI said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:37pm | ! Report

            But then surely you could “move on and not get offended” by people trying to change someone’s opinions on a minority. Life’s too short for people to be making cracks about someone’s gender identity, sexuality, enthicity, etc. and to let them get away with it.

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 4:41pm
              Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:41pm | ! Report

              Honestly that’s the main reason I always jump in with both feet on these threads. There’s an endless supply of blokes rocking up to complain they can’t be unchallenged bigots like they used to and I don’t believe in letting them think their views are welcome or somehow ‘edgy’ anymore.

              • June 28th 2017 @ 6:18pm
                covfefe said | June 28th 2017 @ 6:18pm | ! Report

                And you still haven’t changed anyone’s way of thinking, and you know what Einstein said about those who repeatedly do the same things and expect different results.

                But it sure does make you feel like a big man to try and stand over others, doesn’t it.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 7:44pm
                Paul D said | June 28th 2017 @ 7:44pm | ! Report

                Hello again Donald…no, I just figure if people choose to enter into discussions like this with a backwards view it should be confronted and make them aggressively defend their behaviour. Why else are we all on here if not to debate something?

                Expressing uncivil ideas civilly is the chief tactic of conservatives to stifle debate. They try and insist people shouldn’t get angry about these issues – well, plenty of people are mad as hell and people should be free to put their arguments any way they want, within the bounds of the moderation filter

            • Roar Guru

              June 28th 2017 @ 5:24pm
              Kaks said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:24pm | ! Report

              Not offended, just tired of those who are constantly offended.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 5:28pm
                XI said | June 28th 2017 @ 5:28pm | ! Report

                They’re probably tired of having their identity and life questioned by boneheads who’ve got nothing better to do.

              • Roar Guru

                June 28th 2017 @ 7:57pm
                Kaks said | June 28th 2017 @ 7:57pm | ! Report

                Why care about what other’s think if you’re happy with who you are?

              • Roar Guru

                June 29th 2017 @ 12:24am
                XI said | June 29th 2017 @ 12:24am | ! Report

                Umm. Because they’d like to not have to deal with being called “it, unnatural, etc” and have the opportunity to be happy the same as anyone else.

                And if you’re happy kaks, why care about how other people are trying to make themselves happy?

          • Columnist

            June 28th 2017 @ 10:25pm
            Mary Konstantopoulos said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:25pm | ! Report

            And that’s how things stay the same as they are now… I might as well give up and go sit in front of the tv.

      • Columnist

        June 28th 2017 @ 10:23pm
        Mary Konstantopoulos said | June 28th 2017 @ 10:23pm | ! Report

        It always strikes me as so interesting that people get so uppity about people getting offended.

        I don’t think it’s too much that I expect people to speak to and about other people with respect.

        I also don’t think it’s too much to expect that people with broad platforms use it to spread good instead of garbage.

    • Roar Guru

      June 28th 2017 @ 8:32am
      mds1970 said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:32am | ! Report

      It’s on too late up here in Sydney for me to watch it. But I haven’t for years – Sam Newman is a dinosaur and the show hasn’t been remotely funny or interesting for years.
      And there are alternatives that are much better. The Marngrook Footy Show is excellent, and there’s some good shows on Fox Footy.
      The Footy Show is a throwback to another era. An era of discriminatory thought processes that are slowly dying and won’t be missed.

      • June 28th 2017 @ 8:47am
        KingCowboy said | June 28th 2017 @ 8:47am | ! Report

        What? You haven’t watched the footy show for years but the show hasn’t been funny for years? So how did you come to this conclusion?

        • June 28th 2017 @ 9:40am
          clipper said | June 28th 2017 @ 9:40am | ! Report

          I agree with mds1970 – just seeing the ‘highlights’ is enough to realise how dated and boganish it is. Both codes are at the same level with this – maybe it’s still funny to certain people, just like Benny Hill might still illicit hilarity from certain sections. Have to give the AFL show some credit to maintain it’s ratings, obviously there is still an audience.

          • June 28th 2017 @ 4:25pm
            Powerboy said | June 28th 2017 @ 4:25pm | ! Report

            Hey, hey, hey! Watch it, mate. Benny Hill deserves better than this argument. Try Kenny Everet….

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