Daley can do a ‘Lazarus’

ScottWoodward.me Roar Guru

By ScottWoodward.me, ScottWoodward.me is a Roar Guru

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    Origin coaches are fundamentally different to NRL coaches.

    I chuckle when I watch Fox Sports and Channel Nine and read the many media stories on who should be the next coach of the NSW Blues.

    It’s clipboards at ten paces, and it seems everyone who played Origin and is employed by Fox or Nine will do a better job. Current coach Laurie Daley has certainly discovered who his real mates are; tough times tend to do that.

    History dictates that a successful NRL coach does not automatically translate into Origin.

    The two greatest modern day coaches are Wayne Bennett and Craig Bellamy and their amazing skill will not be remembered on an Origin field.

    Bennett is only 12 of 22 Origins (55%) and Bellamy two from nine (22%).

    Some of the most successful Origin coaches were failures at club level, or would never be seriously considered.

    To underline this point, Tommy Raudonikis coached the Blues to win the 1997 series, while posting a 34 per cent win record with the Western Suburbs Magpies. Failed NRL coach Wayne Pearce had a 56 per cent win record with the Blues but only 36 per cent at club level.

    Ricky Stuart, a former national coach, only won 44 per cent of his games as Origin coach.

    How can Bellamy and Stuart be under 50 per cent and Pearce and Raudonikis be over?

    How can Paul Vautin walk out of the Footy Show to coach the Maroons to a series win with no experience, and the most successful Origin coach is Mal Meninga who he was a failure at NRL level.

    It does not make sense!

    mal-meninga-rugby-league-nrl-2016

    (AAP Image/Paul Miller)

    What does compute is that Origin players, especially of the ilk like Cam Smith and Johnathan Thurston do not need to be coached at that level, they just need to stay happy and healthy.

    The 2017 NSW Blues, if you believe the players, were very happy and thrived on their preparation to ambush the Maroons in Brisbane 28–4 scoring five tries to one. They backed up at Homebush to be leading 16-6 after 53 minutes in the decider, Game 2.

    The Origin was seemingly won, but with skipper Boyd Cordner moving to the right side, it exposed three of the most experienced players – Jarryd Hayne, Wade Graham and James Maloney –
    who must have been thinking more about post match celebrations than respect for the opposition.

    Discipline went out the window despite it being drummed in by the coach prior to the match. In 25 minutes the Maroons had drawn level and it took the living legend himself, Johnathan Thurston to kick the winning goal from the sideline with a busted shoulder that would end his season and incredible Origin career.

    Thurston-Origin

    ( AAP Image/Dean Lewins)

    The coach cannot pass the ball to Brett Morris with the line open, and he cannot stop a forward from running out of his line, and he does not concede dumb penalties to give the Maroons a sniff when it seemed all was lost.

    Glenn Lazarus is the only player in history to win grand finals with three separate clubs (Canberra Raiders, Brisbane Broncos and Melbourne Storm) and he said on the Sunday Footy Show that “NSW do not have a coaching problem, they have an on-field leadership problem.”

    The ‘brick with eyes’ was hesitant to point the finger at anyone, but he did vent his disappointment at big forward leader Aaron Woods for turning his back in hit ups and his slow play the balls.

    The majority of the Blues are either club captains or in the leadership group, but when it really counted, when they needed to stay focused for just 25 minutes more, they didn’t.

    The NSW Blues loss had nothing to do with preparation and everything to do with selecting the best 17 players who you would want to go to war with.

    If it was about coaching then Bennett would be still leading the Maroons and Bellamy the Blues.

    The brick with eyes knows what it takes, and he says Laurie Daley should stay; he can do a Lazarus.

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    The Crowd Says (128)

    • July 17th 2017 @ 5:22am
      Swannies said | July 17th 2017 @ 5:22am | ! Report

      Laurie is the right coach for NSW. He has won origin once before and was 30 mins away from another origin. Pearce, Woods, Fifita and Hayne let the coach down and will be out for revenge in 2018. Future looks good and start of that dynasty for NSW.

      • Roar Guru

        July 17th 2017 @ 8:04am
        ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:04am | ! Report

        Swannies
        He was actually only 4 mins away from winning the series, or one pass if you like, and you can add Graham and Maloney to the list who let the coach down when it counted.

        • July 17th 2017 @ 8:13am
          souvalis said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:13am | ! Report

          Mal didn’t feel that way..Maloney and Duges..both in the Kangaroo merit team..

          • Roar Guru

            July 17th 2017 @ 10:13am
            ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:13am | ! Report

            Souvalis,
            Milford and Munster will have a big say in who replaces JT in the National team after the Finals.

          • Roar Guru

            July 17th 2017 @ 11:21am
            Nat said | July 17th 2017 @ 11:21am | ! Report

            I heard that interview and his merit team had a number of key components but the one that would have duges and Maloney is they had to have played two games this series. Qld had 3 x left centers and 3 x 5/8s. Therefore, both NSW players are there by default only.

            • Roar Guru

              July 17th 2017 @ 11:37am
              ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 11:37am | ! Report

              Nat
              agree

              • July 17th 2017 @ 12:12pm
                souvalis said | July 17th 2017 @ 12:12pm | ! Report

                Mal is quoted as saying ‘Maloney was a standout for the Blues’…and later ‘he has the inside running’….sound default to you ??

    • July 17th 2017 @ 5:56am
      Kreig said | July 17th 2017 @ 5:56am | ! Report

      I absolutely agree with Glenn! Onfield leadership is lacking. Truth be told, it’s been the real difference between QLD and NSW for more than a decade.

      Daley is the right guy.

      But if they do look to someone else, then it should be Matty Johns.

      • Roar Guru

        July 17th 2017 @ 8:08am
        ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:08am | ! Report

        Kreig
        Guys like Cordner, Jake T, Teddy and the Panthers skipper Moylan can be that leadership. Also having Tom T would be a huge injection.

        • Roar Guru

          July 18th 2017 @ 12:27pm
          jeznez said | July 18th 2017 @ 12:27pm | ! Report

          Completely agree with the lack of on-field leadership being one of our biggest issues. Would have been ripping my hair out in frustration (if I had enough to grab) with the lack of any linespeed in the Blues defence when their backs were up against it, someone had to demand they kept pushing up.

          Instead we had guys waiting for the runner to reach them and giving great playmakers even more time than they need.

          But the coach is selecting the team and he has to own that component – both from who the best players are and ensuring he has the on-field leaders to ensure we can execute the plans.

          • Roar Guru

            July 18th 2017 @ 2:45pm
            ScottWoodward.me said | July 18th 2017 @ 2:45pm | ! Report

            jeznez
            Agree mate but easier said than done.
            You dont just look into a bucket and pull out a Cam Smith or a Cooper Cronk. These are rare type leaders and incredibly NSW do not have players at that level at the moment – thats a fact.
            Some possible ins for next year who will add the the young leadership group include Matt Moylan, Tom T, Dale Finucane and Jordan McLean. The later 2 from the influential Storm system.

            • Roar Guru

              July 18th 2017 @ 4:25pm
              jeznez said | July 18th 2017 @ 4:25pm | ! Report

              Agree we don’t have leaders of that calibre – but I’m even looking at the simplest things such as keeping the team focussed and pushing up in defence!

              Like all those names, Tom T on Ferguson’s wing was a no brainer to me

    • Roar Guru

      July 17th 2017 @ 7:28am
      The Barry said | July 17th 2017 @ 7:28am | ! Report

      Did Laurie Daley not swap a Fox Sports microphone for a NSW clipboard?

      I think the ‘Origin coach doesn’t need to coach’ thing is a bit of a myth. Especially now that Origin coaches are by and large picking their own teams.

      NSW lost because they exposed their left edge? Well, why did the coach shift Cordner? Why did he select a bloke who’s played a handful of games in the centres at left centre and was recently shown up terribly twice in the NRL?

      Why did he pick a fullback at right centre and a left centre on the right wing?

      Why did the Blues have no back up plan when their inside plays at the ruck stopped working? Why did they not run a single effective set play wide of the ruck?

      Who selected this leadership group?

      Who refused to make changes to the team or the strategy?

      Why did the Blues drop their successful halves combination from 2014 for the 2015 series to accommodate Mitchell Pearce? Why did the Blues drop their successful halves combination from game three 2016…to accommodate !itchell Pearce?

      Why was a clearly busted Boyd Cordner left on the park for 80 minutes? Qld scored tries through his areas.

      Who dragged Klemmmer, Trbojevic and Bird off the field when NSW were getting on top for the first time in the game?

      Laurie Daley is a passionate Blues man and a legend. He’s given everything as a player and a coach but it hasn’t been enough on the coaching front. He’s won one from five and none from the last three. That’s long enough at rep level. Even successful coaches don’t tend to last that long at rep level.

      NSW have had a terrible record at ANZ under Daley. They’ve been pumped in two deciders.

      He doesn’t have the cattle that Queensland has but he’s been out matched strategically and at the selection table. NSW haven’t been successful under him but nor are they set up for future success.

      • Roar Guru

        July 17th 2017 @ 8:03am
        Con Scortis said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:03am | ! Report

        In addition to looking at Laurie, we should also consider how Kevvie Walter coached during the series.

        In Origin 1 the Blues completely overpowered the Maroons and Fifita in particular was unstoppable. By Game 2 the Maroons had changed their defensive tactics and by Game 3 had completely nullified Fifita, Woods and even Jackson. That’s good coaching.

        The Maroons also effectively targeted the Blues defensive frailties, in particular Hayne at centre and Pearce + Maloney. That’s good coaching too.

        Most importantly, the Maroons improved over the series (despite many changes to personnel), whereas the Blues got worse as the series progressed (despite having the same squad in all three matches). Surely coaching has something to do with that.

        • Roar Guru

          July 17th 2017 @ 8:21am
          ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:21am | ! Report

          Hi Con,
          Having 2 home games is a massive walk up start.
          I rate Kevie every bit as good a coach as Laurie, but Kevie has a huge advantage of on -field coaches in Cam Smith, Cronk and Slater; and in G2 he also had Thurston.
          All the guys would be great coaches if they chose that path.
          Coaching had nothing to do with not passing when the line is open, poor missed tackles and conceding dumb penalties.

        • Roar Guru

          July 17th 2017 @ 9:11am
          The Barry said | July 17th 2017 @ 9:11am | ! Report

          Hi Con – your last paragraph is telling. NSW deteriorated from both a performance and a strategic perspective despite seven weeks in camp with the same 17.

          If that’s not the coaches fault, then whose? Can we blame Bozo again?

          Actually, more than a few were hailing Sterlo as a genius following game one…he seems to have missed the crossfire following the series.

          • Roar Guru

            July 17th 2017 @ 10:18am
            ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:18am | ! Report

            Baz
            I am not a “pick and stick” guy and agree that the selections should have changed for the better.
            I can appreciate that when you win G1 by 5 tries to 1, it is easy to justify keeping the same 17, but Tom T would be a bonus to any team and he can also play centre and wing.
            I rate him along with Teddy as the 2 best players in NSW, and Moylan is in the top 13.

          • Roar Guru

            July 17th 2017 @ 12:11pm
            Nat said | July 17th 2017 @ 12:11pm | ! Report

            Very good analysis TB, above and below this, probably the best I’ve read in most publications. Hayne, a fantastic footballer is years gone by had never come close to his previous form and had been shown up in the centers. Hayne’s efforts effectively retired Morris from Rep footy. At least Turbo and Mansour future should now be blue.

            Graham needs a ‘Corey Parker’ break from rep footy. He is a talent but he needs to mature.

            Daley should be better than what he offered this year. When players question strategy and get their way, one needs to go.

      • Roar Guru

        July 17th 2017 @ 8:17am
        ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:17am | ! Report

        Baz
        You have made up your mind mate and you are entitled.
        I will just say that you would have a similiar narrative about Kev Walters had Hayne passed to Morris. It REALLY was that close.
        Everything that Laurie did in G1 was 10/10 especially how he used the interchange and Hayne was superb; it would have been a brave man to change what worked so well.
        Mitch Pearce like Maloney were disappointing but that is not why they lost.

        • Roar Guru

          July 17th 2017 @ 8:59am
          The Barry said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:59am | ! Report

          Hayne played two games in the centres for the Titans before game one where he was exposed defensively by Will Chambers and Dylan Walker.

          In game one he was great with the ball in his hand but was poor defensively. He made three shockingly bad plays a n the first half.

          First was (I think) Gillet running at Maloney. I’m sure Maloneys defensive capability contributed to Hayne coming in, but Maloney made the tackle and Hayne didn’t get there in time to wrap the ball up. The ball went to O’Neill who strolled through the gap left by Hayne. Queensland scored off the next play.

          Next he came charging out of the line. Not sure if it was an intercept or if he was trying to cut down space but again Queensland went through the gap.

          Third, Queensland had the ball on the fifth on halfway. Morris dropped back into the corner for the kick but Hayne also dropped back into this weird no mans land position about 15-20 metres behind the line.

          Smith was at first receiver and his eyes lit up. He threw the ball to O’Neill who again walked into open space. By the time he got to Hayne, Hayne was back-pedalling with numbers coming at him. O’Neill put a grubber through and NSW cleaned it up.

          None of these showed up as missed tackles for Hayne but they were poor reads from someone not used to playing centre.

          It may have been a brave man to change anything but it was silly to change nothing.

          NSW left edge was the reason we lost game two. We can agree NSW were one pass away from a series win (although it’s not a fact) but NSW again changed nothing for game three despite being dominated for the final 45 minutes of game two.

          Also of note in game two was Holmes try with inches down the sideline without a finger being laid on him. Ferguson charged in to not assist Dugan in a tackle that Dugan completed. It was unnecessary and if Ferguson held his position he would have put Holmes in the stand by leaning on him.

          Nothing was changed for game three.

          Holmes scored four tries in the series, three of them without a finger being laid on him.

          By halftime in game two NSW inside plays at the ruck had dried up. They were being telegraphed and Tedesco was being smashed.

          Nothing changed. They had no set plays to go to the outside.

          Nothing changed for game three either. The few times they did go wide they looked clunky and ineffective. After seven weeks in camp! But they persisted with the inside plays and Tedesco kept getting smashed. To his credit, he kept showing up though.

          Daley’s bench use in game one might have been good but in game three it was diabolical. The one time NSW got on top for any sort of a period was when Klemmer, Trbojevic and Bird were going hard in attack and defence. But Daley took them all off, right on schedule to bring on the ineffective Fifita and Woods and it was done. It showed a coach with no creativity or flexibility. Just stuck to the plan that wasn’t working.

          Yes I have made my mind up but it’s not because of any bent against Daley. There were plenty of signs that things weren’t working yet he acted on none of them. He took the safe option of leaving everything the same.

          Compare that to Walters and Queenslands evolving selections and strategies and I think it shows the “rep coaches don’t need to coach” line as the myth that it is.

          • Roar Rookie

            July 17th 2017 @ 11:40am
            Bunney said | July 17th 2017 @ 11:40am | ! Report

            The Barry for NSW coach in 2018!

          • Roar Guru

            July 19th 2017 @ 10:26am
            Sleiman Azizi said | July 19th 2017 @ 10:26am | ! Report

            It all started when Daley sent out Josh Reynolds where, in his first run in Origin, he kept running to the line, creating space for his outside men and NSW finally started to look properly dangerous.

            I’m thinking, wow, it won’t be long before NSW score and then… after ten minutes of this, Daley pulls Jeynolds off.

            After that, I didn’t think Daley could coach.

            • Roar Guru

              July 19th 2017 @ 12:11pm
              ScottWoodward.me said | July 19th 2017 @ 12:11pm | ! Report

              Sleiman,
              Hi mate, hope your holiday was good.I also would have “pulled him off” as you say , lol.
              Coaching has never been the issue and anyone who knows Laurie would have faith in what he does. The issue has always been getting the selections right ensuring the team has the right mix of on-field leadership and quality last tackle options.

              • Roar Guru

                July 19th 2017 @ 12:28pm
                Sleiman Azizi said | July 19th 2017 @ 12:28pm | ! Report

                My holiday? Yeesh, spies everywhere!

                I can accept that he may be a fine coach and the players let him down and all of that.

                But when a player comes on and the opposition seem to be in a tad bit of trouble dealing with it, then I don’t understand why you take him off.

                I have this image of the right side of the field and this massive amount of open space that Jeynolds was creating and players in motion and all of that good stuff that leads to tries.

                And then he gets replaced and those massive spaces fizzled away.

                Anyway, that was years ago so whatever.

                Go Glebe and Toronto.

      • July 17th 2017 @ 9:18am
        MAX said | July 17th 2017 @ 9:18am | ! Report

        Brilliant.

      • July 17th 2017 @ 10:26am
        Charles NSW said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:26am | ! Report

        I agree with the points that The Barry has made!

        It is time we find another coach but it is is only one factor to the equation.
        We have to find players that are Origin type players and until then we keep searching

        Pearce should have been hunted a long time ago but all of the NSW hierachy said how brilliant he was.
        When you throw balls to your player when the opposition is on top of him you know he is playing ad hoc and not thinking what he is doing.

        I believe players like Jake Trbojvic, Jack De Belin, Tyson Frizell, Matt Moylan and Jarrod Hayne are the players we need to consider very carefully as they will make every effort to get on top of their opposition.
        We need a core group and keep adding to it based on what they can do for that core group.
        It seems it is what we can do for the individual to compliment him rather than the other way around.

        • Roar Guru

          July 17th 2017 @ 10:40am
          ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:40am | ! Report

          Charles
          Being a selector and a coach are fundamentally different.
          Just because the selections may have been wrong that does not mean the coach has not prepared the team well.
          Two different worlds.
          You do not go to Brisbane and defeat Qld 5 tries to 1 if you do not prepare your team well. History is very strong that it is very tough to win at Suncorp.
          We should not confuse coaching with selecting.

          • July 17th 2017 @ 11:11am
            Charles NSW said | July 17th 2017 @ 11:11am | ! Report

            I am not sure what you mean nor did I say that.
            Daley has erred in a number of errors as a coach with the team he had, end of story.
            A coach has to have a say in the selections otherwise what is the point?
            Daley and the hierachy kept saying how good Pearce was.
            As a coach he stated Pearce will do the job so he failed to see that he was not up to the task.

            • Roar Guru

              July 17th 2017 @ 11:50am
              ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 11:50am | ! Report

              Charles
              Laurie kept saying how good Pearce was playing at club level and that he is the best NSW 7 in the NRL.
              All that is 100% correct.
              He was very open on who would be the 2017 halfback and had Moylan had played 6 for the Panthers prior to G1, things may have been different as he is an admirer and rightly so.
              He had the former great halfback Sterlo as his advisor and he was a big Pearce fan.
              It was not that simple, quite frankly there is not a lot in the Blue cupboard and Qld have 4 maybe 5 halfs who could get in the NSW team.
              Reynolds getting injured and playing with injuries impacted his form and it was difficult to pick him sadly. There is a gap after that which is amazing given the size of NSW and the many halfs and hookers Qld have.
              I am not a Maloney fan and would never play him at 7 on the right and Cleary is far too young and Moses is still learning how to tackle.
              I will repeat: “Pearce was NOT the reason why NSW lost.”

              • July 17th 2017 @ 12:31pm
                Big Daddy said | July 17th 2017 @ 12:31pm | ! Report

                Scott,
                You say Pearce was not the reason NSW lost.
                I think he played a huge part.
                His kicking game was the major factor as he continually gave Qld field position.
                Remember this is a guy who has played seven losing series and has had Andrew Johns personally coaching him and to be honest his game at SOO level has not really improved.

              • Roar Guru

                July 17th 2017 @ 12:58pm
                The Barry said | July 17th 2017 @ 12:58pm | ! Report

                No one player on their own is the reason NSW lost. Several had roles to play though.

                So the statement “Pearce was NOT the reason why NSW lost.” is technically true. But you can exchange Pearce with any of the other 16 players and it will remain technically true.

                But that doesn’t mean we don’t change anything. We can’t just pick Pearce again for game one next year. 18 games, seven series, whatever it is, is enough.

              • July 17th 2017 @ 1:04pm
                Jimmmy said | July 17th 2017 @ 1:04pm | ! Report

                Have a look at the the missed tackle by Cordner on Munster. Pearce rushes out ol the line like a madman . Munster is forced to run and Cordner misses a one on one. Pearce is to blame.
                Pearce just makes too many bad decisions. Seriously get someone who is a safe set of hands for the 7. Pearce is not solely to blame but he he is a big chunk.
                Guys you can’t pick again. Pearce, Woods ( he is just soft, Lazo must be bemused by his continued selection), Graham, just a complete liability, he is addicted to rushing out of the line and the strip. Hayne , in a team game he has no place for mine . Turbo Tom and Mansour are the wingers and you need two centres who know what centres are there for, so Duggan goes too. I like Duggan a lot but he is so one dimensional . His style of play will never win an Origin series.
                Lastly , get a nine who can run the footy. Again , I really like Peats but Smith gave him a lesson in O3 that I don’t think he will recover from.

              • Roar Guru

                July 17th 2017 @ 1:48pm
                ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 1:48pm | ! Report

                Big Daddy,
                Mitch Pearce was NOT the reason NSW lost, but I agree he was poor in G2 and 3 but got little help from his forwards and always had to rush his kicks. It is a shame as he is such a great competitor.
                Personally, I would have liked to have seen him play a running 6 role on the left and let someone like Reynolds control the last tackle options. His fitness and strong D would have help the left. he also has all the skills of a great 9, but we may never find out.

              • July 17th 2017 @ 2:01pm
                Big Daddy said | July 17th 2017 @ 2:01pm | ! Report

                Scott,
                I believe peats is worth persevering with as it was only his first series.
                Woods was a great let down and fifita tbh cracked under pressure which was evident by his reverting back to his old ways of niggling and taking it personally.
                Klemmer definitely stood out and is worth reselection.
                In the backs we have to bite the bullet and try guys like James Robert’s and leuluai who are specialist centres plus mansour . moylan is an ideal bench player an I think it is a little bit early for clearly. We don’t want to turn him into another Mitchell Pearce.
                Sometimes you have to go through a bit of pain for long term reward.

              • July 17th 2017 @ 7:49pm
                Charles NSW said | July 17th 2017 @ 7:49pm | ! Report

                In your arguments Scott it is clear that you are not seeing the facts.

                NSW selection is poor and has been for years.
                We have not had a decent coach to what SOO is all about.

                Pearce is one of those who should not have been selected.
                It is his poor showings that has stopped NSW going forward.
                He is much the cause why NSW keeps losing!

      • July 17th 2017 @ 1:07pm
        Kilgore Trout said | July 17th 2017 @ 1:07pm | ! Report

        That is far and away the best overview of the NSW conundrum I have read . Absolutely spot on TB. Time for NSW to get a coach and stop thinking about the intangibles . Walters had a lot of coaching to do in that series for QLD . He did it well and deserved the win ….. even if he does owe Bellamy a discreet slab of beer !

        • Roar Guru

          July 17th 2017 @ 1:54pm
          ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 1:54pm | ! Report

          Kilgore Trout,
          The Storm influence for Qld is pronounced.
          Not only did the Storm supply the entire spine, but also Chambers and Glasby plus Kev Walters and his assistant Anthony Seibold are both former assistants to Craig Bellamy.
          NSW can get their own Storm influence next year with a couple of forward ins.

          • July 17th 2017 @ 2:25pm
            John said | July 17th 2017 @ 2:25pm | ! Report

            If QLD can win 11 out of the last 12 years using the Storm’s 9, 7, and 1 for most of that time then why haven’t the Storm won 11 premierships in the last 12 years?

            You can come up with all sorts of excuses to discredit Kev’s and/or Mal’s coaching abilities whilst trying to insulate Loz’s.

            When QLD was faced with a dominant player they formulated a strategy to nullify that player. It’s hard to believe that in 12 years that the NSW brains trust hasn’t been able to formulate strategies aimed at nullifying/containing those players in the spine.

            Instead it’s been far too easy to just fall back to the “they got too many good players” excuse when they come up short. What does that do to the current and future crop of NSW players? Basically it spells; “wait till these legends retire because you guys aren’t good enough.”

            • Roar Guru

              July 17th 2017 @ 5:13pm
              ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 5:13pm | ! Report

              John
              The Storm HAVE been the most dominant team in the last 11 years are are still today. Unlike Origin they have 15 other teams to beat, but their record on and off the field is amazing.
              It is not a matter of blaming players, it is just a fact that NSW do not have any depth in the halfs and hooker unlike Qland.
              NSW went within 3 mins this year and will win next year.

              • July 18th 2017 @ 8:07pm
                Bee bee said | July 18th 2017 @ 8:07pm | ! Report

                The storm clouds are clearing now. I forecast some blue sky’s ahead. But….. Qld have some great prospects in Munster/Morgan. Lots of prospects at 9 and 7…. NSW will have to fight for every series they win….. The talent emerging on both sides makes the next 5 yrs look very interesting.

              • Roar Guru

                July 18th 2017 @ 8:33pm
                ScottWoodward.me said | July 18th 2017 @ 8:33pm | ! Report

                Bee Bee
                The depth for Qld in the halfs and at hooker is amazing compared to NSW who have more forwards.
                I do not understand why NSW cannot develop play makers and hookers?

      • July 18th 2017 @ 6:01pm
        mac said | July 18th 2017 @ 6:01pm | ! Report

        My thoughts exactly “The Barry”

    • July 17th 2017 @ 8:18am
      souvalis said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:18am | ! Report

      Will Chambers,over the three games missed more tackles than both Hayne and Dugan…his forwards took up the slack,Blues were let down by theirs….the tale of the tape.

      • Roar Guru

        July 17th 2017 @ 8:26am
        ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 8:26am | ! Report

        souvalis
        The NSW forwards were on top for G1 and most of G2, they were certainly disappointing in G3, except Klemmer and Jake T.
        That run by McGuire that changed the series was most uncharacteristic by him, but he managed to step thru several tackles, one of which was the hooker, who showed that you need to do more than tackle and pass at this level.

      • Roar Guru

        July 17th 2017 @ 10:20am
        The Barry said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:20am | ! Report

        A missed tackle isn’t the only measure of a defenders effectiveness.

        You can’t miss tackles if you’re positioned so badly that you don’t even get a hand on the attacking player who strolls through where you should have been.

        • Roar Guru

          July 17th 2017 @ 11:14am
          ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 11:14am | ! Report

          Baz
          Agree mate.
          That run by McGuire in G2 changed the result of the series and Wade Graham ran out of the line and not only missed, but created an avalanche of misses that led to a crucial try. Graham is one of the best one on one defenders in the NRL, but some of his lateral D is a worry and he has poor discipline. For a highly intelligent guy, he often plays dumb, but he had a few mates.

          • July 17th 2017 @ 11:34am
            souvalis said | July 17th 2017 @ 11:34am | ! Report

            Pretty sure Barry’s talking about Hayne..and that Hayne,not the charge by Maguire thru the center of the ruck,cost the Blues the series…

            • Roar Guru

              July 17th 2017 @ 12:37pm
              The Barry said | July 17th 2017 @ 12:37pm | ! Report

              I wasn’t talking specifically about Hayne…but it does apply to some of his game one tackles in particular.

              It was meant as a general comment that there’s more to good defence than not missing tackles and a poor read and poor positioning can cause a player outside or inside to miss a tackle, while the offending player does not get a miss next to his name.

              For what it’s worth I don’t think Hayne cost NSW the series. His missed tackles didn’t cost NSW in game one but it should have been an alarm bell.

              I think the NSW left edge defence (including but not limited to Hayne) cost the Blues in game two. But there were plenty of other factors as well.

              Game three – take your pick…the ponderous inside plays, shocking right edge defence, poor interchanges, lack of go forward, no variety in attack.

              • July 17th 2017 @ 1:13pm
                Jimmmy said | July 17th 2017 @ 1:13pm | ! Report

                TB , it has always been my position that missed tackle stats are a furphy. Everyone will tell you how poor Lockyer was as a defender but his defensive reads were superb. He read the game so well he was always in position to make the tackle and even if he fell off a few he slowed the attacker down so Tunza or some other cruncher could finish it off.
                Positioning and reading play are everything. Cordner gets the stat for Munsters break , but more at fault was Pearce. You would never see Lockyer ( or JT ) do that. Pearce is a poor decision maker and it really is time for NSW to move on. Ffs how many series does he get???

              • Roar Guru

                July 17th 2017 @ 2:10pm
                ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 2:10pm | ! Report

                Baz
                Hayne certainly was not on his own in G2, the 2 players on his right Graham and Maloney also had a sudden attack of ill-discipline.
                NSW played G3 like Qld played G1.

        • July 17th 2017 @ 1:25pm
          Noel said | July 17th 2017 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

          Furthermore, you can count a bunch of Morgan’s ‘missed tackles’ to efforts where he smashed Tedesco, but fell off. Tedesco is then cleaned up whilst still on the ground after the contact, yet Morgan’ stats are marked.
          So, as you say TB, stats don’t tell the whole story

          • Roar Guru

            July 17th 2017 @ 2:17pm
            ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 2:17pm | ! Report

            Noel,
            Missed Tackles and other stats like Post Contact Meters can be very misleading and like most stats, should only ever be taken as a guide.
            Providing you have a big sample, the stat becomes more valuable and will give a very reliable indication on what should happen.
            The missed tackles for NSW in G2 came from a combination of poor technique and laziness under fatigue.

      • July 17th 2017 @ 1:25pm
        Jimmmy said | July 17th 2017 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

        There are missed tackles and then there are MISSED tackles. Chambers was superb . His position defence is superb. He is a real centre , just as is Michael Morgan. Hayne was like someone who still thought he was playing NFL and Duggan only has two options, 1. I think I’ll have a crack or 2 . I think I’ll have a crack.
        What ever happened to Michael OConnor . Get him to training and explain what centres do.

        • Roar Guru

          July 17th 2017 @ 2:21pm
          ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 2:21pm | ! Report

          Jimmmy
          Dugan is one of those massive talents who really does not have a position. He would make a great edge forward IMO but that will never happen as he will have to drop in pay. The Manly and the broncos right centres have put big pressure on him now.

          • July 17th 2017 @ 3:02pm
            Jimmmy said | July 17th 2017 @ 3:02pm | ! Report

            Totally agree Scott. He plays like an edge forward. This may be OK in club land but it will not do in Origin . Hayne has much better skills but he is selfs to his core . He has a need to be a hero . Get someone who plays for his mates.

    • July 17th 2017 @ 9:31am
      MAX said | July 17th 2017 @ 9:31am | ! Report

      Scott, with respect, you place great emphasis on “had Hayne passed to Morris”

      To my eyes Hayne had selfishly taken the room needed for Morris to have a chance to score
      and would probably have been bundled into touch. Even if he had passed earlier there was no
      guarantee Brett would have scored. My respect for Brett Morris is boundless, but he is human.

      There are several Roarers who posted similar opinion on the incident.

      I applaud TB for his incisive questioning in the search for much needed answers. That is what
      NSW needs…incisiveness.

      • Roar Guru

        July 17th 2017 @ 10:27am
        ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:27am | ! Report

        Max
        Morris was selected because he is a world class finisher and Hayne, as an ex 6, has a silky pass. 100% he would have scored. To that point, Morris was hardly given many opportunities from his inside men and had to go looking for the ball. That was disappointing. Morris can hold his head up, he had a very good series and been a wonderful rep player.
        Max, you are correct, I have put a lot on that non pass, but a forensic analysis of G2 highlights that all the negatives came from the one area from the same 3 guys.
        What is disappointing is that these 3 guys are club leaders but as Lazo says they lack on field leadership when it is really required.

        • July 17th 2017 @ 4:16pm
          Albo said | July 17th 2017 @ 4:16pm | ! Report

          But Scott , it’s pretty pointless even debating the coaching position when it is surely obvious to any RL follower that the real problem is the on-field leadership and game management which has always been the main, and stark difference between QLD & NSW for a decade or more. One team has had a spine of touted ” immortals” in Smith, Cronk, Thurston, Lockyer & Slater running their show and NSW has had ………… just a bunch of poor series results where no one is solely to blame ! The reality is that the calibre of on-field leadership won’t get evened up until NSW finds a leader or two who can actually play footy at SOO level, and QLD’s current big 4 leaders finally hang up their boots. Whether the coach is Daley, or Gould, or Bellamy , won’t matter a fig if the cattle are not up to scratch in providing the key aspects of on-field leadership & game management. I don’t have any immediate answers but only a hope that perhaps the likes of a Cleary , Moylan, Turbo J & Turbo T might form the basis of a NSW “big 4 ” at some point in the near future. But to me, who the coach is, will be irrelevant unless we get some cattle on the field to match the opposition’s leaders, which we haven’t been able to do for a decade or more.

          • Roar Guru

            July 17th 2017 @ 5:18pm
            ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 5:18pm | ! Report

            Albo
            Spot on.
            That is exactly what Lazo said.
            FYI, NZ and England have the same problem.
            That is why halfs who can run a team are worth so much.
            NSW are nearly there……………..

    • July 17th 2017 @ 10:08am
      Oingo Boingo said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:08am | ! Report

      Laurie Daley is going to become the SOO coaching version of Mitchell Pearce.
      Keep giving him another go.
      I thought Pearce would stand up this series, but he did the opposite and doesn’t ever deserve to be there again.
      Cordner is an 80 minute backrower , but an inspirational on field leader he is not .
      Woods is a F’n myth , end of story.
      The selection of the centres was a massive mistake , but Laurie was too proud or too stubborn to make a change , Kevvie accepted he had to change .
      My analogy is …. A Panelbeater is a Panelbeater , ya don’t give him a job painting cars because he was good at bashing out dents , but Laurie did just that.
      And Scott , with all due respect mate , if Hayne passes , it wasn’t necessarily a 100% result , they may not have scored and QLD still may have pulled it off even if they did.
      Anyway , it’s a dead horse , dig a hole.

      • Roar Guru

        July 17th 2017 @ 10:33am
        ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:33am | ! Report

        OB
        As tough as the loss for NSW was, the team has progressed and gradually improved its rating since Laurie has been in charge.
        We witnessed in G2 how close, and the upside is enormous with some real talent certain to come in 2018 and selection errors certain to not be repeated.

        • July 17th 2017 @ 10:53am
          Oingo Boingo said | July 17th 2017 @ 10:53am | ! Report

          Do the unthinkable, give the Walker brothers the job.

          • Roar Guru

            July 17th 2017 @ 11:19am
            ScottWoodward.me said | July 17th 2017 @ 11:19am | ! Report

            OB
            They are both mates of mine and from a wonderful family, and have done very well with Ippy.
            If they want to go to the next level at NRL, they need to change their strategy. The one off stuff and cross field running can work at Q Cup level but it would get found out quickly at NRL level.
            I agree with Lazo, we dont need a new coach, but we do need to select a team that the coach can trust to carry out his plan; players to go to war with, like Lazo.

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