Roar Forum: What changes should the Wallabies make for the Springboks?

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    After an inspiring effort on Saturday night in the second Bledisloe Test – ultimately won that fell just short of a win – the Wallabies must turn their attention to a meeting with the Springboks in two weeks.

    Australia are hosting South Africa in the third game of the Rugby Championship for both teams at nib Stadium in Perth.

    More Bledisloe 2
    » QUIGLEY: Watershed moment for Wallabies
    » Five talking points
    » Match report: Wallabies blow big chance
    » Vote in our DIY player ratings
    » Watch video highlights
    » Re-live the match with our live blog

    The Wallabies will enter the match winless after two defeats at the hands of the All Blacks, but the Springboks will come in 2-0 after two cracking victories over Argentina.

    What changes should the Wallabies make to the team before they come up against the Springboks in two weeks’ time?

    For the answer to that all-important question, Roarers, we’re turning things over to you.

    Which of this week’s players have earned another go next time around, and which of them are headed back to the chalkboard?

    Who deserves to come right in, and who should be made to earn their place?

    In short – who comes in, who goes out?

    There will, we bet, be a variety of opinions on the matter, and in this week’s Roar Forum you are invited to let us know in the comments what yours is.

    For your reference, here’s the full team from the Test on Saturday night:

    Wallabies team versus All Blacks Bledisloe 2
    1. Scott Sio (33 Tests)
    2. Stephen Moore (121 Tests)
    3. Allan Alaalatoa (13 Tests)
    4. Rob Simmons (72 Tests)
    5. Rory Arnold (13 Tests)
    6. Ned Hanigan (4 Tests)
    7. Michael Hooper (c) (69 Tests)
    8. Sean McMahon (16 Tests)
    9. Will Genia (79 Tests)
    10. Bernard Foley (46 Tests)
    11. Henry Speight (13 Tests)
    12. Kurtley Beale (61 Tests)
    13. Tevita Kuridrani (48 Tests)
    14. Dane Haylett-Petty (17 Tests)
    15. Israel Folau (56 Tests)

    Reserves
    16. Tatafu Polota-Nau (72 Tests)
    17. Tom Robertson (10 Tests)
    18. Sekope Kepu (81 Tests)
    19. Izack Rodda (0 Tests)
    20. Lopeti Timani (8 Tests)
    21. Nick Phipps (53 Tests)
    22. Reece Hodge (14 Tests)
    23. Curtis Rona (1 Test)

    What changes do you want to see for the next Test? Let the debate begin!

    Have Your Say



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    The Crowd Says (149)

    • August 27th 2017 @ 8:02am
      Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:02am | ! Report

      1. As per usual, Moore has gotta go (but as per usual, he won’t). Scrummaging was appalling with Moore on the field. TPN to start and Latu to come off the bench once he has recovered. Until then, Uelese/Ready/Hanson/Man Rea to provide bench cover.

      2. Beale has improved his defence no end, but he still missed 3 of 10 attempted tackles. A 70% success rate isn’t high enough for an international inside centre. Further, Beale is better attacking in space and being able to weave in and out rather than playing more structured in at 12. Beale should be switched to fullback – where he plays his best rugby and can take clearances – and given Folau spends a lot of time attacking on the wing anyway now. If Cheika is wedded to Folau being in the 15 jersey then put Folau in DHPs spot.

      A straighter running 12 like Kerevi, Meakes or even Hodge should be brought in. My pick would be Kerevi.

      3. Alaalatoa isn’t being able to replicate his Brumbies form on the international stage yet, I think Kepu should start and Ala should provide cover.

      4. Hanigan is still a passenger. It isn’t his fault as he tries so hard, he is just too young, too small, too light and too weak to be playing at international level. Maybe he will be a Wallaby mainstay in a couple of years, but until then this experiment has to be over. Needs to be replaced with an equally strong line-out target – should be Fardy, Ross Haylett-Petty or Higginbotham, but unless Cheika has a change of heart that won’t happen. I have heard from several Tah fans that I trust that Dempsey is a good target and more physical than Hanigan. Try him.

      5. McMahon is not an 8, he had a great work-rate but didn’t provide enough bulk at the back of the scrum and doesn’t have enough impact for an 8. Timani to come in at 8. McMahon can provide bench impact.

      6. DHP is not in good form. His high-ball taking is ostensibly a strength, and was on the EOYT last year, but he has not shown it in 2017. He needs to move to the bench and be replaced by Beale or Hodge on the wing.

      7. Foley will forever remain at 10, I am unfortunately resigned to this fact, but he needs to have a kick off with Beale in order to determine who will be the goal-kicker, and he needs to give touchfinding and clearance kicking duties to Beale, Hodge or DHP.

      8. Obviously Simmons should go as soon as Coleman is better.

      Overall, very solid effort from the team. Aside from the scrum, restarts and Foley’s kicking it was a really good performance, despite the team missing a few too many tackles.

      • Roar Guru

        August 27th 2017 @ 8:35am
        PeterK said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:35am | ! Report

        agree with all this

        • August 27th 2017 @ 11:41am
          Noodles said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:41am | ! Report

          On the contrary it would appear obvious that this team neeeds to settle. There might be injuries but that aside I’d be putting Coleman back and keep everyone who is fit. Perhaps rotate the front row.
          Let’s try to get some consistency!!!

          • August 27th 2017 @ 11:45am
            Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:45am | ! Report

            Why would we continue with the current team when the same players and issues are letting us down again and again?

            • August 27th 2017 @ 12:26pm
              Noodles said | August 27th 2017 @ 12:26pm | ! Report

              I was impressed. That’s why. I just want more of it. And I’m sick to death of changes.

              • Roar Guru

                August 27th 2017 @ 12:59pm
                Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 12:59pm | ! Report

                Moore cannot go on, the Springboks will eat us if our scrum is that poor against them.

              • August 27th 2017 @ 10:44pm
                Bakkies said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:44pm | ! Report

                Exactly Fionn it is two steps forward and two steps back with this scrum. There needs to be a change at tighthead,.

                Coleman, Rodda and Arnold should remain the core locks

              • Roar Guru

                August 28th 2017 @ 12:38am
                Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 12:38am | ! Report

                I think Ala’alatoa needs to go back to the bench until he learns the ropes against the better international scrummagers. He is great at SR level but has a bit to go at international level it seems.

                Kepu has prove he is a quality THP and Polota-Nau should definitely be wearing the number 2 jersey.

              • August 28th 2017 @ 10:28am
                marto said | August 28th 2017 @ 10:28am | ! Report

                Impressed with a thrilling loss??

              • August 28th 2017 @ 1:30pm
                jameswm said | August 28th 2017 @ 1:30pm | ! Report

                Noodles pick and stick is fine, as long as you’re picking and sticking with the right players.

                Moore and Hanigan must go. It’s that simple. I am sick of being right with my selections and Cheika wrong. I sincerely wish it was the other way around.

                Also agree with Fionn that Hodge and DHP need to swap.

              • August 31st 2017 @ 8:14am
                Ulrich said | August 31st 2017 @ 8:14am | ! Report

                I think people need to realise that the All Black pack has been hardened by the very elite from the Northern Hemisphere. For my money as a Saffa, the reason we won the Tri-Nations in 2009 was because of the British and Irish Lions.

                We suffered later in the year when we lost some in the Autumn Internationals. I believe the All Blacks are evening out their workload in anticipation of that capitulation – given as many of their teams as possibly allowed reached the playoffs too and all the SR sides played the Lions – some with Test players included.

                I think the All Blacks were priming themselves for the last four games in this stretch rather than the first two.

                Yet, the pack is what is keeping them afloat.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 1:16pm
          JB said | August 27th 2017 @ 1:16pm | ! Report

          Bang on

        • August 27th 2017 @ 3:47pm
          cuw said | August 27th 2017 @ 3:47pm | ! Report

          Auzzy shud not make wholesale changes – but just a few rotations AND recalling better players than those in the squad 🙂

          1. Scott Sio (33 Tests)
          2. Tatafu Polota-Nau (72 Tests)
          3. Sekope Kepu (81 Tests)
          4. Adam Coleman
          5. Rory Arnold (13 Tests)
          6. Sean McMahon (16 Tests)
          7. Michael Hooper (c) (69 Tests)
          8. Scott H’botham
          9. Will Genia (79 Tests)
          10. Bernard Foley (46 Tests)
          11. Henry Speight (13 Tests)
          12. Kurtley Beale (61 Tests)
          13. Tevita Kuridrani (48 Tests)
          14. Israel Folau (56 Tests)
          15. Dane Haylett-Petty (17 Tests)

          Reserves
          16. Moore ???
          17. Tom Robertson (10 Tests)
          18. Allan Alaalatoa (13 Tests)
          19. Rob Simmons (72 Tests)
          20. Lopeti Timani (8 Tests)
          21. Nick Phipps (53 Tests)
          22. Quade cooper 🙂
          23. Reece Hodge (14 Tests)

          • August 27th 2017 @ 5:39pm
            Wozza said | August 27th 2017 @ 5:39pm | ! Report

            I thought Rodda went really well in his cameo. I’d give him another shot on the bench

      • August 27th 2017 @ 9:01am
        PiratesRugby said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:01am | ! Report

        So Foley can’t tackle, kicks poorly and is a plodding playmaker. He must start!

        • August 27th 2017 @ 9:21am
          Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:21am | ! Report

          Yeah, I wouldn’t have him in the 23. Enough is enough.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 9:53am
          concerned supporter said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:53am | ! Report

          Hey Pirate,
          Tell me ,what player on the field (NZ or AUST.)performed the most tackles?

        • August 27th 2017 @ 10:10am
          Ian said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:10am | ! Report

          You obviously didn’t watch the game, or simply know nothing about the game.

          The big difference last night was Foley & Beale defending in their actual positions…and they were both sensational at it.

          Perhaps the heavy defensive load was a contributor to the poor goal kicking?….you get nothing for nothing in this world. Let’s not forget that he hit the upright 3 times!!!!!

          • August 27th 2017 @ 10:16am
            Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:16am | ! Report

            ‘Perhaps the heavy defensive load was a contributor to the poor goal kicking?….you get nothing for nothing in this world. Let’s not forget that he hit the upright 3 times!!!!!’

            Is this a serious comment? If the defensive load of defending in his actual position causes him to kick poorly (in a closed stadium) then he can hardly continue to kick goals and defend in his actual position in the future.

            A ball 1mm out in tennis still out. A kick that hits the posts and misses is still a miss, it doesn’t matter if it is a 1mm miss or a 10m miss.

            • August 27th 2017 @ 6:51pm
              Ian said | August 27th 2017 @ 6:51pm | ! Report

              Ok I get it….you know nothing about the game.

              • August 27th 2017 @ 11:53pm
                Fin said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:53pm | ! Report

                Ian to be fair to Fionn he is quite knowledgeable and contributes a lot, It’s only around a couple of players that he is irrational. Foley being the main one.

                Foley had a disappointing night with the boot but was pretty good other than that. He is by far our best 10 and when was the last time a wallaby in that position made 14 tackles in a game?

                Hanigan is another were poor old Fionn loses the plot. Ned has been brought in the provide lineout options and do some of the dirty work that goes unnoticed. Two Bledisloe test and the lineout is the only area that we have had parity and as a team we have missed around 75 tackles, Hanigan’s missed 0. Not sure he’s going to be the greatest wallaby ever but he’s going alright.

                I just put it down to Tah bashing.

              • Roar Guru

                August 28th 2017 @ 12:33am
                Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 12:33am | ! Report

                My ideal 23 has 6 Force, 5 Waratahs, 4 Brumbies, 4 Reds and 4 Rebels (inc. Genia), it isn’t an anti-Tah thing. I even said if need be replace Hanigan with Dempsey (another Tah).

                I get that Hanigan makes his tackles and is decent in the line out, but that is Dean Mumm version 2. He just doesn’t have enough of an impact and he de-powers the back.

                In regards to Foley I just don’t get it. Your 10 is meant to be the main one setting up your backline not the one making breaks himself. Foley is not as dangerous of a ball runner as the backs outside of him (Folau, Beale, TK) and yet he chooses to constantly run himself because he doesn’t know how to manage a game and run a backline. He is usually a poor defender (excellent last night), lacks a long pass, isn’t a fantastic goal-kicker, his out of hand kicking is poor too. No one has been able to explain to me what he does to deserve his spot other than saying ‘he’s the best 10 we have’. Yes, okay, but why?

                QC, for all his faults, can put a man through a hole like no one, has excellent vision and knows how to run a backline. He is a better out of hand kicker than Foley too. He is less accurate off the boot when in close (unless Foley is having one of his bad streaks) but has a longer range. For 3 years Quade has had better tackle stats – and, yes, I know that after Foley’s unbelievable effort last night it isn’t the best time to be bringing that up, but it is true.

              • August 28th 2017 @ 1:53am
                Fin said | August 28th 2017 @ 1:53am | ! Report

                Quade is the most skillful 10 we have but has been overlooked by successive coaches, why?

                Can he not be coached? Can he not stick to a script? IMO he tries to do too much- overplays his hand. As you say he can put a man through a hole but that becomes predictable if that’s all he is trying to do.

                Good 10s are boring catch and pass players the majority of the time. Quade is more like Kurtley you think he should be a 10 because of his skillset but in reality he plays better when he doesn’t have to be the main distributor. When Cheika played Foley and Cooper together he had them the wrong way around.

                Cooper should have been identified as a potential fullback when he still had a good running game. Even when the Reds won in 2011 Genia did a lot of the boring playmaker stuff directly from the base and gave Quade the ball when he had more space.

                For what it’s worth I think Fardy should have been brought back in the RC and Hanigan either should have played off the bench or gone back to the NRC and been told to find a bit of mongrel in his ball carry. I just think he’s doing a lot better than he gets credit for around here.

                The Tah bashing that happens on this site is over the top. Okay plenty of guys here think Cheika favours Tahs players and they get an easier road into the Wallabies. That fine have that opinion but once the game starts try to judge everyone on what happens in that game only. It’s a bit like a ref thinking the All Blacks will be dominant from the start. He is already looking for the opposition to infringe before it’s happened, it’s going to change the way you see things.

              • August 28th 2017 @ 6:44am
                Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 6:44am | ! Report

                Average 10s are boring catch clang pass players. Teams looking to play enterprising rugby have 10s who provide spark on attack: Larkham, Carter, Barrett, Cruden, Spencer.

                Quade’s primary skill is throwing passes and putting players through gaps… so why would he be better at 15, when you have to run more and have fewer opportunities through gaps? He is the best flyhalf we have produced since Larkham, even though his form isn’t what it was in 2010-13.

                He functions best when he has Genia as Genia is better at working out when he wants the call, and Genia is good at drawing in defenders to open up space.

                At the end of the day there are only 2 matches in all of Foley’s at 10 that the backline fired – England at the WC ans Wales last year. That is disgraceful for a team that the coach constantly repeats wants to play up tempo attacking rugby. And Foley lacks a strong kicking game, goalkicking game, long passing game and defensive game. He is too limited.

                Deans only dropped Quade after Quade criticised team culture in the media, not due to his play, and McKenzie immediately brought him back and used him when he wasn’t injured. Cheika is the first to not-select him because he thinks he isn’t the best option.

                One could argue Quade is too risky, but…. Foley is even flakier and riskier, and without the upside!

                Check my article, the stats on Hanigan’s effectiveness aren’t pretty, in any of his tests. He just quite frankly is not yet good enough – he and Moore are consistently dragging down team performances. He’s being selected over better players and bringing the team down.

              • Roar Guru

                August 28th 2017 @ 7:40am
                Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 7:40am | ! Report

                Fin, I personally reckon the Tah bashing and allegations of Waratah bias are far more prevalent on GAGR. I personally think some people go too far in the Waratah bashing at times, but let’s face it, Cheika isn’t helping himself when the Waratahs come 3rd last overall and 2nd last in the Aussie conference and make up by far the highest number of Wallabies

                – 30% (7 of the 23) of the Wallabies on Sat were players that played for the Waratahs this year, compared to just
                – 20% (5 of 23) Brumbies
                – 13% (3 of 23) Western Force
                – 13% (3 of 23) Reds
                – 13% (3 of 23) Rebels
                – 9% (2 of 23) Overseas (Genia and Beale)

                I understand there are arguments that the Brumbies and Force were coached better rather than having better players, but you must admit that it is a little bit confusing given how the Waratahs performed this year, and given the beating that the Force gave them. As I said, if it works, it works (but it ain’t working) but Cheika isn’t helping the perception. Perception is at times more important than reality.

              • August 28th 2017 @ 10:33am
                marto said | August 28th 2017 @ 10:33am | ! Report

                The Waratahs bring a losing culture the WALLABIES..The last great Wallaby team only had one TAH..Burke

              • Roar Guru

                August 28th 2017 @ 11:57am
                PeterK said | August 28th 2017 @ 11:57am | ! Report

                marto – 2001 3rd lions test team would be the last great wallaby team

                had

                Matt Burke
                Nathan Grey
                Rod Moore

                in the starting xv

                Brendon Cannon
                David Lyons
                Chris Whitaker

                on the bench

                all from NSW

          • August 27th 2017 @ 1:32pm
            JB said | August 27th 2017 @ 1:32pm | ! Report

            Agree take away foleys kicking he had a solid game, Beale was great our midfield held up well, our scrum was dominated, Coleman if fit is an automatic in would like to see Romani get more minutes hanigan is a year or two away

          • August 27th 2017 @ 2:54pm
            PiratesRugby said | August 27th 2017 @ 2:54pm | ! Report

            Yes he hit the upright but he missed the space in middle, which is what I presume he was aiming at. Given that the first try was scored in the first minute, I’m surprised that Foley was already so close early Clair me by his defensive obligations. But if you’re trumpeting Foley’s defensive prowess in this game, can you explain why he has been hiding this skill until now?
            But seriously, he’s a dud. He was a dud. He will be a dud. And the result (a loss remember) will nonetheless be used to paper over the problems. Get used to losing – if you’re not already.

            • August 27th 2017 @ 11:48pm
              moniano said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:48pm | ! Report

              Private you are not Australian?

        • Roar Guru

          August 27th 2017 @ 10:57am
          Cadfael said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:57am | ! Report

          The problem is that he is seen as the sides major kicker, both field and goal. To me he is too erratic. Six from six last week and two from six last night. It didn’t really matter much last week but it did last night. We need to have a goalkicker who will regularly kick them. Maybe Hodge or Meakes at 12 and Cooper at 10 or Meakes or Kerevi at 12 and Hodge at 10. (Beale to 15 and Izzy to the wing.) Like Moroe likely starting against the Saffas , I can’t see any of these changes happening.

          • August 27th 2017 @ 10:01pm
            advrider-oz said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:01pm | ! Report

            Cooper Jesus!

            • August 27th 2017 @ 11:56pm
              moniano said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:56pm | ! Report

              what is with these Guru advrider-oz? Do they know best and know it all. Can we forget Cooper he is gone, his use by date is finished. Hodge at 10? Really? I GIVE UP.

              • August 28th 2017 @ 10:35am
                marto said | August 28th 2017 @ 10:35am | ! Report

                Foley gives up ..Why not you mate

              • August 28th 2017 @ 10:36pm
                Ken Catchpole's Other Leg said | August 28th 2017 @ 10:36pm | ! Report

                Advrider , moniano bring it in tight.
                Listen carefully to Uncle Ken.
                A playmaker is required to ‘make plays’.
                Foley doesnt
                Cooper does.

      • August 27th 2017 @ 9:31am
        samoanaussie91 said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:31am | ! Report

        Wow. All my thoughts exactly! Cheers Fionn.

        I honestly think our next 10 should be Duncan Paiaua or Mack Mason. They should start bringing them through as part of the extended squad. Here’s my line up with the realistic picks in brackets.

        1. Scott Sio
        2. TPN
        3. Kepu
        4. Coleman
        5. Arnold
        6. McMahon
        7. Hooper
        8. Timani
        9. Genia
        10. Foley
        11. Hodge/DHP
        12. Kerevi/Hunt
        13. Kuridrani
        14. Folau
        15. Beale

        16. (Moore) Latu/Uelese/Hanson
        17. Allan Alaalatoa
        18. (Robertson) Toby Smith/Ainsley?
        19. (Rob Simmons) Rodda/RHP/M.Phillips/Enever?
        20. (Hanigan) Higginbotham/Timu
        21. (Phipps) Gordon/Ruru
        22. Hodge/DHP
        23. Rona/Koroibete/Speight

        • August 27th 2017 @ 9:53am
          Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:53am | ! Report

          Looks pretty good.

          Wouldn’t quite be my ideal 23 if I was choosing the entire team, but I think that this is the best possible team we can hope for from Cheika 🙂

          Cheers

          • Roar Guru

            August 27th 2017 @ 10:27am
            PeterK said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:27am | ! Report

            no chance
            Cheika will still select Hanigan

            Also he will keep Beale at 12 and Folau at 15.

            The only changes he possibly will make are Moore and Alaalatoa and bring back Coleman

            Same backrow same backline, when Hunt is back he will probably get a bench spot.

            • August 28th 2017 @ 12:04am
              moniano said | August 28th 2017 @ 12:04am | ! Report

              PK. I think that’s good. Harmony is a good thing for Wallaby team. 12 and 15 played well, really well according ABs commentators former great Half-Back and Wingers on Saturday night and …and RWC Champs wallaby Great Fly-half from UK Sky Sport. Oh you are Guru PK. Sorry I did not see.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 6:28pm
          Dally said | August 27th 2017 @ 6:28pm | ! Report

          that starting 15 is good.

      • August 27th 2017 @ 1:53pm
        timber said | August 27th 2017 @ 1:53pm | ! Report

        Fionn, I’m going to come in here with I told you so.
        Alaalatoa isn’t quite the dominant prop, especially in regards to scrummaging, you were making him out to be in earlier conversations.

        • Roar Guru

          August 27th 2017 @ 1:57pm
          Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 1:57pm | ! Report

          I’m not certain if it was Moore, the AB loose-head or Simmons and McMahon in the scrum, but I agree, Kepu has better form. I’d be interested to see how the scrum would have functioned with TPN, Coleman and Timani in last night, I imagine it would be a marked improvement.

          However, the Springboks tightheads don’t have fantastic SR form either, so I don’t know if their scrum was so dominant due to Marx, their LHP, second row and 8.

          Fair call though, Timber, I’ll admit you picked that.

          • August 27th 2017 @ 3:56pm
            cuw said | August 27th 2017 @ 3:56pm | ! Report

            MA is not a good scrummager – his strength is in open play where he makes tackles and carries a lot.

            Hansen said something like the opposite of Laulala – that they are still working on his speed around the park.

            Also Coles got the better of Moore – if he plays so will Marx tho am not sure of the black guy on bench.

            the saffa front row of Beast and Connie are very good scrummagers. Beast has lost pace over the years but he is still a beat at scrumtime.

            also dont forget the size of the saffa second row. they will put a lot of pressure.

      • August 27th 2017 @ 2:59pm
        John said | August 27th 2017 @ 2:59pm | ! Report

        Agree with the suggested changes to be made for the Springboks.

        The Rugby Championship standings as of today as follows:-
        1. South Africa – 9 points with a +40 points differential
        2. New Zealand – 9 points with a +26 points differential
        3. Australia – 1 point with a -26 points differential
        4. Argentina – 0 points with a -40 points differential

        The Wallabies need to turn good effort into wins and the first win needs to be against the Springboks in Perth if the Wallabies are to have any sort of chance of improving on 3rd spot in the Rugby Championship standings.

      • August 27th 2017 @ 8:41pm
        mzilikazi said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:41pm | ! Report

        Agree with what you write here, Fionn.

        Strongly want to see Kerevi back again. Essential to get Hannigan right out…unfair to the guy to have him in this position ie far too young and inexperienced as yet. Get Fardy back for at least the two Bok games, and the last Bledisloe game.

        I would start Kepu, and a lot of work is needed on the scrum….the “Beast” is in good form for the Boks…..going to be tough.

        Haylett Petty has badly lost form, so demote him right off the squad.

        Would also like to see Hadrwick brought into the 23.

        • August 28th 2017 @ 9:45am
          Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 9:45am | ! Report

          Yeah, I think I agree with all of those changes, mate. Cheers.

      • August 27th 2017 @ 10:40pm
        Bakkies said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:40pm | ! Report

        ‘If Cheika is wedded to Folau being in the 15 jersey then put Folau in DHPs spot.’

        Nah if he goes to wing it should be in place of Speight. The biggest elephant in the room for the Wallabies coming is the age profile of the backs. Most of the backs are in their late 20s and there isn’t much coming through bar Naivalu, Gordon and Powell.

        • Roar Guru

          August 28th 2017 @ 12:36am
          Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 12:36am | ! Report

          Folau needs to go on the right wing given how he likes to step. Is Speight any older than DHP? I just checked, one year. Okay, the shift DHP to 11 and Folau to 14.

          Tom Banks, Naivalu or, perhaps even Chance Peni will be owning one of those wing spots by next year.

          • August 28th 2017 @ 7:25am
            Bakkies said | August 28th 2017 @ 7:25am | ! Report

            Banks has potential as a fullback. The problem is that neither him and Kuridrani have signed new deals for next season

            • Roar Guru

              August 28th 2017 @ 7:29am
              Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 7:29am | ! Report

              Could just be late resigning?

              It would be disastrous for the Brumbies if either of them left, and disastrous for the Wallabies if either went overseas.

      • August 27th 2017 @ 10:41pm
        Bakkies said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:41pm | ! Report

        ‘too light ‘

        Hannigan is 110 kg he can’t carry too much more weight than he has now. People said the same thing about Elsom when he got in to the Tarts.

        • Roar Guru

          August 28th 2017 @ 12:37am
          Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 12:37am | ! Report

          Righto, cheers.

          Well then he just needs to go and work on his core strength (rather than gaining weight) so that he can provide more physicality, impact and strength through contact.

      • August 27th 2017 @ 8:16am
        Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:16am | ! Report

        We have a bunch of 6s in Higginbotham, Ross Haylett-Petty and Fardy. Cheika just has to use them.

        Failing them, Dempsey is in the squad. Simmons and Rodda are too slow to play 6.

          • August 27th 2017 @ 8:49am
            Dave_S said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:49am | ! Report

            Simmons is definitely too slow
            to start at 6, it’s just his physiology.

            No pace off the mark and no step, therefore no ability to attack or defend other then in the middle. Can’t recall him making too many line busts or cover tackles.

            He’s a decent lock, and like many locks could cover lock/6 from the bench, but he’s not a starting 6

            • August 27th 2017 @ 10:42am
              Rhys Bosley said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:42am | ! Report

              He seemed to demonstrate pretty good pace off the mark with the intercept try against Argentina in the RWC semi final. He is often the man running the closest in support during a break too.

              • Roar Guru

                August 27th 2017 @ 11:06am
                Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:06am | ! Report

                Good point.

              • August 27th 2017 @ 11:24am
                Ruckin Oaf said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:24am | ! Report

                I thought some of Simmons best games for the Reds this year were at 6 ?

            • August 27th 2017 @ 10:57pm
              Bakkies said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:57pm | ! Report

              ‘No pace off the mark and no step, therefore no ability to attack or defend other then in the middle’

              Yep to all of that. The days of playing locks at blindside are over. Just watch the analysis that Mallett did on du Toit getting exposed in defence against England in the AIs. All at sea.

          • August 27th 2017 @ 8:49am
            bigbaz said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:49am | ! Report

            Both our locks were good last nite, would have Simmons at 6 when Coleman returns.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 8:46pm
          mzilikazi said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:46pm | ! Report

          Totally agree re Simmons…for me there is no way he is fast enough, or dynamic enough, to get any where near 6 in this team. Timani should be starting…failing Fardy back, McMahon to 6…he is a 6 or 7, and only an emergency 8.

          • August 27th 2017 @ 11:03pm
            Bakkies said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:03pm | ! Report

            Fardy won’t be back he is already training with Leinster.

        • August 28th 2017 @ 12:09am
          moniano said | August 28th 2017 @ 12:09am | ! Report

          Hey Fionn aren’t those 6’s used by date finished?

          • Roar Guru

            August 28th 2017 @ 12:15am
            Fionn said | August 28th 2017 @ 12:15am | ! Report

            Higgers, barring injury, should definitely be an option in 2019 and Ross Haylett-Petty is only 23.

          • August 28th 2017 @ 10:40am
            marto said | August 28th 2017 @ 10:40am | ! Report

            miniano

            Higgers is 1 year younger than Read ..Try GOOGLE ..It helps brainiac..

    • Roar Guru

      August 27th 2017 @ 8:41am
      PeterK said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:41am | ! Report

      Happy to make a mea culpa on Genia.

      Finally he runs the ball and looks a lot better, also put his body on the line in defence.

      Took 4 poor games though before it happened.

      Assume Hunt, Naivalu, Latu are still injured and unavailable

      Drop Moore, Hanigan, Simmons, Robertson Phipps out of 23
      Drop McMahon and DHP to bench,

      • August 27th 2017 @ 10:19am
        wag said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:19am | ! Report

        Agree, Peter K

      • August 27th 2017 @ 6:32pm
        Dally said | August 27th 2017 @ 6:32pm | ! Report

        you can’t drop mcmahon after that game.

        you just can’t.

        • Roar Guru

          August 27th 2017 @ 6:54pm
          Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 6:54pm | ! Report

          Hooper has put in a couple of ordinary performances in a row. Is there an argument for dropping Hooper to the bench and moving McMahon to 7?

          • August 27th 2017 @ 7:06pm
            Ed said | August 27th 2017 @ 7:06pm | ! Report

            Mate,
            We had Pocock outplaying Hooper yet there was no way David was wearing seven while Michael was available under Cheika. Hooper is captain, he won’t be dropped.

            Will the ARU agree to Cheika’s request post match about trying to break McMahon’s contract and keep him here? I’d rather Cheika make advances to Mike A but whether he’d do that is another question.

          • August 27th 2017 @ 8:49pm
            mzilikazi said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:49pm | ! Report

            Fionn, I would like to see Hardwick in for Hopper, or on the bench to replace him as a finisher. I think Hooper has lost form since last RWC, and is not back to his best yet….perhaps it is being captain that is a lot of the problem.

            • Roar Guru

              August 27th 2017 @ 8:52pm
              Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:52pm | ! Report

              mzilikazi, I actually think I agree that Hooper’s form has declined. I would have Hardwick in the 23 over McaMahon (at least Hardwick wants to play in Australia) and with the hope that he will surpass Hooper by 2019.

              • August 27th 2017 @ 9:13pm
                mikeylives said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:13pm | ! Report

                I can recall 1 missed tackle by Hooper on a slippery Smith dummy, but apart from this Hooper made loads of metres and cover tackles. He forced a turnover through one of his big hits. He also scored a solo try by storming over Kearan Read and was there in support for a Genia break to lay on a perfect assist for the Foley try.
                How was it a bad game?

        • August 28th 2017 @ 2:08pm
          MitchO said | August 28th 2017 @ 2:08pm | ! Report

          You guys will remember Hooper scooting from a midfield maul in June but not having any support and getting caught. Looks a bit like him scooting through Read and making it to the tryline.

          I am not married to Hooper but how many bad games has he had in his career? Maybe none. His output is pretty consistent. So they are going to pick Hooper even if McMahon could do the job we require more.

          Cheika loves Hanigan and is not going to drop him. McMahon is too small for 8 – certainly for starting 8. In the presence of Hanigan and the absence of a better option the starting backrow should be McMahon at 6, Timani at 8 and Hooper 7. If Timani runs out of gas you can shift McMahon to 8 and bring on Hanigan/Dempsey to play 6.

          Surely Dempsey (and Hanigan) is too young to have a hard enough body yet. They shouldn’t have the muscle until at least 25 years old.

          TPN needs to start with ideally an apprentice as the backup. Won’t happen. It’ll be Moore so okay. Let’s not start with Moore. Looks like Kepu is playing well. There is not much between him and Alan A but Kepu looks in better scrummaging form so I don’t mind him starting and Alan A subbing on later. I need a better look but would presume that the scrum problem weren’t helped by Sio’s side but that is because I think Sio is a mechancial scrummager not an instinctive one. The more experienced he gets (ie the more worked over) the better he’ll get.

          I don’t get Robertson but he is pretty good for his age. If they can’t get another talented prop in there (eg a Faulkner or Ainsley but both are currently tightheads) then bring back Cowan. He’ll add to the second phase and make some good tackles. Cowan wasn’t a great scrummager but neither is Robertson. Cowan will add more starch and is still young enough.

          Or see if Ainsley can be groomed for tighthead and Alan A go back to loosehead. I presume that it has been decided that Ainsely is not consistent enough yet. Ultimately I like Tupou for a back up loosehead role (even though he is currently a tighthead) because of his ball running. And because the tighthead side needs to be reserved for scrummagers.

          Foley is okay and scored a decent try. Pity he has not put any distance on his field kicking and his goal kicking is not top class. A top class kicker makes life better and the opposition are afraid of conceding penalties so it puts more pressure on them. Cooper is never coming back under Cheika so I have put that out of my mind.

          The backline actually worked well with KB showing some determination. He looked like a guy playing through his lack of toughness in the tackle because he wanted to contribute for the team. Good on him. But for the backs we pick TK at 13. He keeps things nice and straight and strong and then work it out from there. I prefer KB to go back to full back full time and have Kerevi at 12 with Hunt fighting for a starting spot at 12 (with Kerevi) but basically Hunt being a pretty sold bench utility.

          Folau stays on a wing. he is a dangerous attacker. He is not a good defender but his defensive output is enough.

          DHP is not quite settled. I think he is a test class fullback you can fake it on the wing. But he makes more mistakes than I’d like. He is a better ball player than some give him credit for. He is not a 10 but he can come in form his wing/full back and keep things moving.

          But DHP and Hodge are fighting for the same spot and Hodge has a lot going for him. If Kerevi takes 12 then KB and Folau take wing and fullback leaving one spot available. Do you give it to Hodge/DHP or do you give it to a pure finisher like Speight, Naivalu even Rona. I think Naivalu is better than Speight but Speight is doing okay. He and TK were flat last year but have looked good this year. Naivalu I think is just better. He had a good end of year trip.

          Rona is a good strike winger. I think he has pace although someone else doesn’t. I think he has a good offload too. But Rona, Speight, Naivalu, Korobeiti etc are fighting for one wing spot. At least Rona can cover 13 but you don’t want Kerevi and Rona in the centres because at the Force, Rona has Meakes doing the defensive organising for him.

          I haven’t mentioned Higginbotham because he is not coming back to a Cheika team just like Cooper isn’t. So give me McMahon, Timani and Hooper. Next year though it’ll be the Pooper again with Pocock going back to 8 and I expect Hanigan at 6 (Cheika for you) but maybe a Dempsey at 6. I actually think McMahon is good enough to play 6 at test level but I prefer the 8 to be heavier.

    • August 27th 2017 @ 8:46am
      In brief said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:46am | ! Report

      Easy the Roar posters had already answered this pre game. Hire Lynagh as coach, sack Beale, Hooper, Simmons, Falou, Hannigan- actually sack the whole bunch!

      • August 27th 2017 @ 8:55am
        Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:55am | ! Report

        Strange comment.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 8:51pm
          mzilikazi said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:51pm | ! Report

          Really strange…drop Folau ??…really ??

    • August 27th 2017 @ 8:53am
      In brief said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:53am | ! Report

      The truth is after yesterday’s match, the roar rugby community, which subjected us to one of most self indulgent, Ill informed and hateful whinge fests imaginable over the past week, have absolutely no right to any opinion after being shown up by the wallabies’ performance as a bunch of ‘know all, know nothings’.

      • Roar Guru

        August 27th 2017 @ 9:50am
        PeterK said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:50am | ! Report

        you mean where the wallabies still lost, had poor scrums, couldn’t win restarts, couldn’t adapt, where the players criticiesed by and large still had all the flaws that still contributed to the loss ie
        Moore, Hanigan, Foley, DHP

        yes Genia and McMahon redeeemed themselves and yes te defence was better because it didn’t have all the moving parts so once again posters correct.

        • Roar Guru

          August 27th 2017 @ 11:04am
          Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:04am | ! Report

          The Wallabies and fans getting bigger than their boots and praising the team as “back” after every isolated good performance has been part of the problem.

          Respect and praise is earned. If they can play like that, and improve, in every match then they will be worthy of praise.

          They blew a 17-0 lead and a lead with 2 mins to go, their scrum was embarrassing and they missed 38 tackles for goodness sake.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 8:52pm
          mzilikazi said | August 27th 2017 @ 8:52pm | ! Report

          Well answered, Peter.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 9:43pm
          mikeylives said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:43pm | ! Report

          What exactly do you mean by “same flaws’ “couldn’t adapt?”
          Scrum is a weakness, but I doubt we would be able to coach them to dominate the AB scrum (weaker pack). Restarts were also terrible.

          BUT re:same flaws and adapting
          – They actually made more than 50% advantage line (first time in ages)
          – Can’t remember too many handling errors – Dropped balls and lack of go-forward have been their biggest flaws this year.
          – Defensive flaws far fewer due to a changed pattern and they applied defensive pressure – Forced a lot of AB handling errors.
          – They pressed early and took an easy intercept.
          – Not 1 charge down or wasted box kick.
          – They didn’t give up and strung phases together near the death to score a beauty
          – Genia (Great game) ran when appropriate which is unusual for him of late, and actually looked like he cared in defence – I wanted Genia dropped forever after last weeks slow jog ‘efforts’, but what a bounce back game for him – reckon he got a huge spray on reviewing the game 1 video this week.
          – They did some aerial offensive kicks (mostly when appropriate)

          Most importantly. They were playing a very settled team that know the feeling of winning. A team that is FAR better on paper.

          In contrast to most posters on this site, Hanigan played really well . Most of his moments were in defence, but he was good. I’d be happy to start him. Another surprise was Robertson. He tackled Ardie at pace twice and did OK in the scrum. I couldn’t believe DHP started with his recent form, but he was really good – again in defence.
          Speight didn’t do a great job on Ioane.

          • Roar Guru

            August 28th 2017 @ 11:42am
            PeterK said | August 28th 2017 @ 11:42am | ! Report

            where the players criticised by and large still had all the flaws that still contributed to the loss ie
            Moore, Hanigan, Foley, DHP

            The same flaws by the same players

            Moore – can’t scrum, too old and past it, too slow in defence and attack and has lost stamina and impact

            Hanigan – tries hard but no impact in contact in tackles, ball carrying or clearing rucks

            Foley – cannot create tries, does not use the backs outside him, kicks poorly in general play and for the line, can’t pass long (only area he was better than usual was defence)

            DHP -poor form, poor in the air all year (terrible at restarts), notice he botched the ones kicked his way. His defence improved but his attack still no threat, no defenders beaten no clean breaks none.

            I did Genia and McMahon redeemed themselves ie did not exhibit all the same flaws and were not part of this comment.

            It was not a comment that the TEAM had the same flaws ie handling was better, less errors overall, and defensive pattern was better.

            They did not adapt to where the AB’s were doing well.
            Last week Folau won a lot of restarts. The AB’s knew where it was being kicked so they lifted whitelock very high. Foley did not then start kicking away from whitelock.

            The ab’s used the A Smith inside ball to ioane off lineouts multiple times, not once did they read it or adapt.

            The AB’s restarts had players charging through and jumping into players , why didn’t they put blockers in the way like other teams do

            I did not see one case where the wallabies adapted to what the ab’s were doing in that game during the game (as opposed to prematch planning).

      • August 27th 2017 @ 10:44am
        Charlie Turner said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:44am | ! Report

        Nothing’s changed. The Wallabies were treated to a rare bumbling performance from the Kiwi’s. After racing to a 17-0 lead they gave up 19 unanswered points and ultimately the game. They missed 34 tackles last night, 2 more than last week according to Fox Sports. Foley and Hanigan both less than satisfactory again.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 11:19pm
          Bakkies said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:19pm | ! Report

          There was a major problem in the second half. The severe amount of possession that the ABs had. Must have been close to 70%.

    • Roar Guru

      August 27th 2017 @ 9:13am
      PeterK said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:13am | ! Report

      The scrum is weak because Moore is not a good scrummager, Hanigan and McMahon are also poor scrumagers and lightweights. Hanigan fell off the side often instead of being bound.

      01 Sio
      02 TPN
      03 Kepu (Alaalatoa needs a break)
      04 Arnold
      05 Coleman
      06 Higgs (captain) – I can dream
      07 Hooper
      08 Timani

      09 Genia
      10 Cooper
      11 Hodge (Naivalu when fit)
      12 Kerevi
      13 TK
      14 Folau
      15 Beale (goal kicker)

      16 Ulese (Latu when fit)
      17 Anyone but Robertson
      18 Alaalatoa
      19 Rodda
      20 RHP
      21 Ruru
      22 Lance
      23 DHP

      • August 27th 2017 @ 9:15am
        Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:15am | ! Report

        This would be my ideal 23 in reality, with Coleman and/or Cooper as VCs. Cooper was a very good VC in 2013, Coleman should be future captain.

        Someone yesterday mentioned trying to coax Mike Harris back to Aus.

        Louwrens when fit, however, should be on the bench and should be duking out with Genia for the starting spot.

        • Roar Guru

          August 27th 2017 @ 9:43am
          PeterK said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:43am | ! Report

          Louwrens really needs to start a few more super rugby games AND stay uninjured before he gets in the squad.

          He has missed 2 seasons out of 3 due to injury

          For my ideal team Hunt at 15, beale to wing, so bench Ruru, Hodge, Naivalu, Lance out.
          Hunt and Beale can cover 10.

          Ideal no injuries

          9 Genia
          10 Cooper
          11 Beale (goal kicker)
          12 Kerevi
          13 TK
          14 Folau
          15 Hunt

          21 Ruru
          22 Hodge
          23 Naivalu

          • August 27th 2017 @ 9:51am
            Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:51am | ! Report

            It looks good.

            If we can avoid injuries we could have some decent young players coming through by next year / 2019.

            Banks, Magnay, Paia’aua, Ruru, Powell, Mason and Hodge in the backs, Naisarani, Haylett-Petty, Rodda, Fa’agase, Tupou and Tui in the forwards.

            • Roar Guru

              August 27th 2017 @ 10:23am
              PeterK said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:23am | ! Report

              Hunt won’t be around much longer i.e at most to the next rwc

              Banks looks better than Hodge / DHP for a f/b, wing hybrid spot. Genuine gas, so can just be the speedster on the wing as well.

              Naisarani can’t be there quick enough next year.

              Really need a halfback like Louwrens / Ruru to perform all season next year and get a bench spot or Gordon push out Phipps for the year.

              Not impressed by any young 10’s coming through, that is still very shallow.

              Lots of forwards but will they get a look in past project player Hanigan and Pooper?

              Backrow is the weakness.

              • August 27th 2017 @ 10:30am
                Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:30am | ! Report

                Paia’aua needs to go to another team I think. This would allow Kerevi to play at 12 and Paia’aua to play at 10.

                If Lealiifano can regain his old form he will be the best flyhalf in Australia.

              • August 27th 2017 @ 2:38pm
                Jock Cornet said | August 27th 2017 @ 2:38pm | ! Report

                Foley has
                Cemented 5/8 like Folau has cemented fullback, change the station FION

              • Roar Guru

                August 27th 2017 @ 10:52am
                PeterK said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:52am | ! Report

                forgot about CLL, agree he is the best goal kicker as well and would be a very good option at 10, far better than Foley, perhaps better than Cooper as a 10

              • August 27th 2017 @ 11:02am
                Charlie Turner said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:02am | ! Report

                CLL was the best 10 in Australia in 2012 when he broke his ankle at the end of the season. If he could get back to that form we’ve found our man.

              • Roar Guru

                August 27th 2017 @ 11:05am
                Fionn said | August 27th 2017 @ 11:05am | ! Report

                He was the best 10 in Australia in 2016 as well.

            • August 28th 2017 @ 1:36pm
              jameswm said | August 28th 2017 @ 1:36pm | ! Report

              And Lomax in the forwards.

        • August 27th 2017 @ 10:56am
          Charlie Turner said | August 27th 2017 @ 10:56am | ! Report

          PK, that’s the team I’d like to see but I’d have McMahon at 7 and Hooper on the bench allowing a 6/2 split. McMahon is a similar player to Hooper but adds a harder edge at the ruck and is a good lineout target. I fear for Louwrens, he’s on his second ACL recon but he’s the right guy if he can get back.

          • August 27th 2017 @ 9:03pm
            mzilikazi said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:03pm | ! Report

            “McMahon is a similar player to Hooper but adds a harder edge at the ruck and is a good lineout target.”

            Agree, CT.

            Would still like to see Hardwick given a chance at 7….maybe v Argentina.

      • August 27th 2017 @ 9:45pm
        mikeylives said | August 27th 2017 @ 9:45pm | ! Report

        Cooper had a terrible SR season. Would accept Jono Lance as a replacement for Foley starting.
        NB – I never cared about Cooper’s off-field media beat-ups and was one of his biggest fans from 2010-2012, but since he knee reco, he has declined as his insane running game is no longer a feature.

      • August 28th 2017 @ 12:47pm
        CJ said | August 28th 2017 @ 12:47pm | ! Report

        I agree with that team with Genia as captain.

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