The Asian market is there for the taking, so let’s think like Twiggy

Rhys Bosley Roar Rookie

By Rhys Bosley, Rhys Bosley is a Roar Rookie

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102 Have your say

    There is an awful lot of public naysaying and fretting about Andrew ‘Twiggy’ Forest’s proposed renegade Indo-Pacific rugby competition, but if it improves the quality of rugby in Australia, surely it must be possible.

    Commentators are saying that it can’t work because there isn’t enough money in it and because there isn’t enough talent in Asia for it to succeed. Others tell us it will hurt Australian rugby. Those who are worried are not particularly clear about why, but presumably, they think that the competition will pinch Australian players and viewers from Super Rugby.

    All of the worries seem to be stopping people from considering the opportunities that Forest’s proposed rugby venture has for Australian rugby. It is, after all, the biggest developing market in the world.

    Here are a couple of facts to consider that Forest, since he is a billionaire, undoubtedly thought of before he put his name to this idea.

    Fact number one: there are over four billion people in Asia, who are getting richer and will want to enjoy the luxuries that higher disposable incomes will allow them to purchase.

    That is an absolutely enormous potential market for rugby.

    Rugby already has a foothold in a number of Asian countries including Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, mainland China, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines and Sri Lanka.

    All the discussion seems to be about whether or not the Western Force will be well enough supported to commercially succeed, but in reality, the commercial objective of the competition should be to grow Asian broadcasting revenues.

    Successfully cultivate those and any takings at the gate at NIB Stadium would be dwarfed by the Asian audiences watching the game on TV.

    Rahboni Warren-Vosayaco Sunwolves Super Rugby Union 2017

    (AP Photo/Koji Sasahara)

    Fact number two: the concerns about the standard of the competition are a complete nonsense. There are plenty of professional sporting leagues that operate without access to the best talent in the world: A-League football and Arena Football in the United States are two primary examples.

    Audiences want to be able to follow a team that they identify with, in an entertaining and competitive competition format and there is no reason why that can’t happen in an Indo-Pacific rugby championship.

    Moreover, it won’t take long before standards in those countries increase due to the competition. Think about the Australian Women’s Sevens rugby team, athletes from entirely different sports were trained into an Olympic Gold winning team over the course of just four years. There is no reason to believe that existing and new rugby players in the Indo-Pacific cannot be bought up to a high standard at a similar speed.

    So instead of the naysaying and fretting, Australian rugby commentators could be thinking about the opportunities a competition like this could provide for Australian rugby.

    It could provide the first step into non-Japan Asia which could in the long term help to integrate Australian rugby in our region. This could potentially provide multiple new competitions for fans and commercial opportunities close to home for teams, players, coaches – both male and female – and the Australian union’s themselves.

    These are opportunities that we can only dream of with our little domestic rugby market and I think they have the potential to make Australian rugby great again if only we are smart about making the most of them!

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    The Crowd Says (102)

    • September 12th 2017 @ 7:30am
      waxhead said | September 12th 2017 @ 7:30am | ! Report

      OMG Rhys
      The naivity of you desperate Force fans knows no bounds.
      Or are you on Twiggy’s marketing payroll?

      No fretting here.
      I’d like to see Twiggy’s alleged Asia-Pacific Comp succeed.
      But unlike you I can’t avoid common sense.
      And objective common sense screams the following.

      This Asia-Pacific concept has no commercial potential atm.
      It will therefore never start and probably won’t get past detailed feasibility stage.
      Twiggy’s knew this from the start and would never have proposed it if he thought he’d have to finance this loser in reality.
      This is exactly the same tactic as he used on the alleged far too late offer to finance the Force.
      Easy to offer when you know it will never be needed.

      That’s all fine for Twiggy because the objective here is only to get positive media coverage for himself in WA as the big shot local martyr. All just part of a continuing ego trip with a personal marketing plan in play with a much bigger objective.
      A planned political career or another business deal – don’t know atm.
      We’ll find out in due course and you’ll find out you have been taken along for another Twiggy ego trip to nowhere.

      Mining magnate (now bankrupt) Nathan Tinkler did exactly the same thing at the Newcastle Jets.
      He was stupidly given a licence by the AFA and then proceeded to crucify the Jets club for personal gain and ego tripping. Most us Jets fans would rather have seen the club fold than to witness what he did to it.

      Rhys – please let some common sense shine thru your desperation or…….alternatively get off Twiggy’s marketing payroll

      • September 12th 2017 @ 7:53am
        rebel said | September 12th 2017 @ 7:53am | ! Report

        Rhys is a known Reds fan. Sort of puts into perspective anything that comes after that very early error.

        • September 12th 2017 @ 7:59am
          waxhead said | September 12th 2017 @ 7:59am | ! Report

          Rebel – makes no difference which team Rhys supports actually.
          My comments apply equally to anyone lacking some basic common sense.
          And you can be a Reds fan and still be desperate for the Force to survive as a team.
          Or……be on Twiggy’s marketing payroll πŸ™‚

          • September 12th 2017 @ 4:49pm
            rebel said | September 12th 2017 @ 4:49pm | ! Report

            True waxhead. I was just pointing out that it took you two sentences to make an error. Doesn’t bode well for the rest of your points now does it.

            • September 14th 2017 @ 9:06am
              waxhead said | September 14th 2017 @ 9:06am | ! Report

              hahaha I’m supposed to know which team Rhys supports this week am I Rebel?
              We already agreed it’s not relevant so what’s your point?

        • Roar Guru

          September 12th 2017 @ 8:03am
          Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 8:03am | ! Report

          It will be great if the comp can get off, but the cynic in me says working with the ARU gives Forrest one more party to attribute blame to if it doesn’t work out.

          • Roar Guru

            September 12th 2017 @ 2:58pm
            Cadfael said | September 12th 2017 @ 2:58pm | ! Report

            Sadly TWAS, that will be the problem. The ARU. I hope it succeeds.

            • September 12th 2017 @ 4:13pm
              Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 4:13pm | ! Report

              My point exactly.

              You’re ready to blame the ARU before anything happens.

              • September 12th 2017 @ 4:52pm
                Bakkies said | September 12th 2017 @ 4:52pm | ! Report

                I am they have sacked 20 staff members from Rugby WA including CEO. Who is going to run their Rugby operations after the NRC……..

      • September 12th 2017 @ 8:11am
        Rhys Bosley said | September 12th 2017 @ 8:11am | ! Report

        I wouldn’t normally bother responding to your relentless negativity waxhead, but for the benefit of others I will refute your baseless conjecture and say that I am simply a volunteer Roar contributor, I certainly have nothing to do with Andrew Forest beyond liking his work.

        • September 12th 2017 @ 1:19pm
          not so super said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:19pm | ! Report

          but waxhead is right. you love for twiggy is blind

      • Roar Rookie

        September 12th 2017 @ 10:38am
        piru said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:38am | ! Report

        Waxhead I think there are children on your lawn

        • Roar Guru

          September 12th 2017 @ 1:47pm
          The Neutral View From Sweden said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:47pm | ! Report

          LOL!

        • Roar Guru

          September 12th 2017 @ 6:33pm
          Machooka said | September 12th 2017 @ 6:33pm | ! Report

          Well to tell you truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. πŸ˜‰

        • September 14th 2017 @ 9:09am
          waxhead said | September 14th 2017 @ 9:09am | ! Report

          Piru – I hope those kids are having fun.
          While they’re playing I like to let a little common sense and logic penetrate.
          You should try it – be a nice change from your naive desperation

      • September 12th 2017 @ 1:43pm
        Carltonian said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:43pm | ! Report

        Spot on. Ain’t going to happen.

        You could substitute ‘rugby’ for ‘ice hockey’ or ‘hurling’.

        Give up WA your done and he had your chance but you did not turn up!

        • Roar Rookie

          September 12th 2017 @ 4:56pm
          piru said | September 12th 2017 @ 4:56pm | ! Report

          Please tell us more person who’s never been to WA

          • September 12th 2017 @ 10:54pm
            Hoi Poloi said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:54pm | ! Report

            You have more chance of a third AFL club than this of ever getting off the ground.

            Couldn’t even sell out that toy ground to a Springboks test match. What makes you think a Perth based competition would garner much interest.

      • September 12th 2017 @ 10:57pm
        Hoi Poloi said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:57pm | ! Report

        Twiggy mentioned that it will be a 7’s male and female competition from that stumbling media conference he held.

    • September 12th 2017 @ 8:32am
      Fionn said | September 12th 2017 @ 8:32am | ! Report

      I read on GAGR today that Forrest is in talks with the ARU, and his competition may in fact supersede and replace the NRC.

      • Roar Guru

        September 12th 2017 @ 3:06pm
        Cadfael said | September 12th 2017 @ 3:06pm | ! Report

        The only problem there is the expected increase in the number of teams. With 9 teams already in the NRC, including others from other nations will increase the number of teams. With spring tours, this only leaves a finite number of weeks for the competition (currently 9 rounds). As well, where would it be broadcast? Fox or FTA. FTA would be the better for increasing viewing numbers. With Super Rugby, RC and NRC, another competition would either have to go up against one of these (Super Rugby?) or play out of the NH.

    • September 12th 2017 @ 8:49am
      Jemain Okinga said | September 12th 2017 @ 8:49am | ! Report

      Hi Rhys, I like your enthusiasm, a couple of things stand out to me. While rugby exists in those coutries you mentioned in all but a couple of those countries it is a niche sport played by a very small portion of those countries population, so although their are 4 billion people in those countries, I wouldn’t be surprised if the vast portion of the population of asia had little knowledge or understanding of rugby as a concept. Saying that my good friend Brad Mika is the coach of the Borneo eagles, and has been quite successful over there. So although my optimism isn’t the same as yours, I can see potential, but it needs more than the funding of a billionaire, it needs the support of WR imo. Maybe they have an opportunity to create the second division for Super rugby, and NRC, mitre 10 cup and curry cup players without Super contracts could be added to this competition to give it credibility, while at the same limiting the number of imports per team to ensure the asian countries involved are able to develop there own players while at the same time being exposed to players who have played at higher levels of rugby, which imo could be a win win. A bit of food for thought, we can only wsit and see.

      • September 12th 2017 @ 12:13pm
        tc said | September 12th 2017 @ 12:13pm | ! Report

        Jemain, well said, I agree Twiggy is the real deal, but he needs World Rugby on board.

        • September 12th 2017 @ 1:20pm
          not so super said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:20pm | ! Report

          how is he the real deal? is it his long term support of rugby that has proved it to you?

          • September 12th 2017 @ 1:29pm
            tc said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:29pm | ! Report

            Super, are you six. You know where i’m coming from.

          • September 12th 2017 @ 6:29pm
            UnionThug said | September 12th 2017 @ 6:29pm | ! Report

            You mean like the fact that he has been involved in rugby since his playing days in high school? Has been a Western Force member since inception in 2006? Through his company FMG has been a jersery sponsor of the Force? Was instrumental in the set-up of the Future Force Foundation (i.e. rugby academy) which since 2015 has produced one Wallaby and at least 3 Force players?

            Sounds like a real johnny-come-lately doesn’t he?

          • September 12th 2017 @ 10:59pm
            Hoi Poloi said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:59pm | ! Report

            Twiggy will get World rugby to foot the bill.

            That is how you get rich. Other PEOPLE’S money!

    • September 12th 2017 @ 9:42am
      Mac said | September 12th 2017 @ 9:42am | ! Report

      Well what a lot of negative stuff do we read each week here. First lets base the Super Comp. Right well that worked. Now we bash the ARU for the Force situation and while the Super Comp bash was on there was lets get rid of a team all over the pages. Force, Rebels, Brumbies.

      Now that its all unfolded to the result everyone was so keen on in February there is all this rot on blame and misery. So Twiggy stands up, yes with his money and proposes what any open minded person may consider a reasonable plan and bang he is off with the fairies and so we now bash Twiggy for stirring the pot and getting some thinking underway.

      Two points, Rugby is expanding world wide and for one thing it will come that there is a women comp. God only knows how the writers will go with that one. But that aside the day is coming when we will need to look at our comp base and pathways. I do believe the Pro 14 and such likes evolved and so will our region. What way to go, well that needs consideration, smart investment and time. Super 6 turned into Super 18/15. Hmmm, growth I expect.

      Second point, having been told twice in Rugby Administration you want get that going, I can tell all from 1st hand experience that most things can work if managed right and with vision and application. Funding however in this modern world is key. Nothing can be done for free anymore. So Free To Air is needed to boost the viewer base and therefore advertising reach and grassroots needs to feel connected.

      No, not easy but a big picture needs to be found and then work toward it. No, it won’t be overnight and may take years. Leadership for the code is required and the nobs that run much of rugby can look elsewhere. Whole of game leadership which can understand where the money trail starts. And that is the man in the street. Juniors grow to be wallabies and have kids who “might” play rugby if the lure is there and so on. Women in Rugby will also help as they are 50% of the population and influence on the Kids and so on. All rugby starts at Home in the family world at the grassroots level, not in Sydney at ARU HQ. Simple really.

    • Roar Guru

      September 12th 2017 @ 10:01am
      Machooka said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:01am | ! Report

      Interesting read Rhys… so many thanks.

      If there is to be any new comp in our region… like ‘hello Asia’ to quote Roy and HG, it would need the ARU granting exemption to any participating Aussie players eh?

      • Roar Pro

        September 12th 2017 @ 10:04am
        Crazy Horse said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:04am | ! Report

        Or simply endorsing the competition which it could do with a simple resolution of the Board. Twiggy and DeClyne met on Sunday. Perhaps it’s already agreed. We’ll all have to wait for the announcement to find out.

        • Roar Guru

          September 12th 2017 @ 1:53pm
          The Neutral View From Sweden said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:53pm | ! Report

          I think this is in the cards CH. It is the only thing that makes sense for all partners.
          Asia has always been NZ and OZ big opportunity to counter the riches of Europe.
          Set up this IP-comp with the aim to integrate it with SR 2021.

      • September 12th 2017 @ 6:01pm
        Rhys Bosley said | September 12th 2017 @ 6:01pm | ! Report

        I don’t see why the comp would need the ARU’s blessing Chook, anybody can start a rugby comp. The only thing the ARU really has that WA rugby doesn’t is a pathway to the Wallabies, but as I said in the article, Wallaby standard players aren’t necessary for the comp to succeed. Really it is up to the ARU if it wants to benefit from participating, the Western Australians can get this thing going with or without them.

        • Roar Guru

          September 12th 2017 @ 6:27pm
          Machooka said | September 12th 2017 @ 6:27pm | ! Report

          Sorry Rhys… what I’m saying re exemptions is that presently to play for the Wallaby you need to play SR or have Giteau’s disease πŸ˜‰

          To play in any other comp (as suggested here) would negate eligibility required, thus it would need the ARU to grant exemption for said players eh?

          • September 12th 2017 @ 7:04pm
            Rhys Bosley said | September 12th 2017 @ 7:04pm | ! Report

            Yeah I know, I addressed that one post ago. The comp doesn’t need Wallabies to be successful so whether the ARU exempts or not is irrelevant.

        • September 12th 2017 @ 8:12pm
          Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 8:12pm | ! Report

          No they actually can’t.

          They need World Rugby or ARU approval to play rugby.

          • September 13th 2017 @ 8:02am
            Rhys Bosley said | September 13th 2017 @ 8:02am | ! Report

            Prove with references how World Rugby and the ARU can enforce ownership over a 200 year old game, which was played informally before those organisations or their predecessors even existed, or zip it.

            • September 13th 2017 @ 8:26am
              Rhys Bosley said | September 13th 2017 @ 8:26am | ! Report

              Incidentally, here is a link which describes the ACCCs views on these issues.

              http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/AUCCCUpdate/2010/22.pdf

              • Roar Guru

                September 13th 2017 @ 10:24am
                Train Without A Station said | September 13th 2017 @ 10:24am | ! Report

                The example is banning players from playing in Ice Hockey Australia competitions because they competed in another competition.

              • September 13th 2017 @ 6:05pm
                Rhys Bosley said | September 13th 2017 @ 6:05pm | ! Report

                The example demonstrates the ACCC’s attitude to sporting bodies engaging in anticompetitive conduct, which is what you are proposing that the ARU do. Where is your evidence? Don’t have any? Didn’t think so.

              • Roar Guru

                September 14th 2017 @ 12:43pm
                Train Without A Station said | September 14th 2017 @ 12:43pm | ! Report

                It’s on the World Rugby website.

    • Roar Pro

      September 12th 2017 @ 10:01am
      Crazy Horse said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:01am | ! Report

      The usual negative suspects are out in force today. Do you not understand that no one in WA gives a stuff about anything you easterners have to say anymore? So take your opinions and shove them.

      There’s a reason why WA is the powerhouse of the Australian economy, producing around 30% of the nation’s export income with only 10% of the population. We just get on with it.

      If only 1% of China’s population was interested in Rugby that’s one and a half million fans. Given that Rugby is now one of the official sports of the 2.3 Million strong People’s Liberation Army it’s reasonable to expect interest will grow. In fact Brett Gosper of World Rugby estimates there will be a million Chinese players in five to ten years.

      • Roar Guru

        September 12th 2017 @ 10:07am
        Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:07am | ! Report

        Why don’t you address what part of the negative is incorrect or based on incorrect assumptions if it’s such a foregone conclusion?

        I’m not sure a sport being mandated by the armed services as the official sport is evidence of commercial appeal…

        • Roar Rookie

          September 12th 2017 @ 10:43am
          piru said | September 12th 2017 @ 10:43am | ! Report

          TWAS the point is there are no details yet

          Such incredible negativity is based on nothing more than pessimism at this point

          • Roar Guru

            September 12th 2017 @ 11:08am
            Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 11:08am | ! Report

            No more reason for irrational optimism than there is for pessimism.

            • Roar Rookie

              September 12th 2017 @ 12:07pm
              piru said | September 12th 2017 @ 12:07pm | ! Report

              interesting that you think optimism is irrational

              there are plenty of reasons actually, the main one being if you decide nothing will work before you try it you never progress.

              • Roar Guru

                September 12th 2017 @ 12:13pm
                Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 12:13pm | ! Report

                Optimism isn’t irrational.

                Saying “That is an absolutely enormous potential market for rugby” is irrational in my view though.

              • Roar Rookie

                September 12th 2017 @ 1:06pm
                piru said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:06pm | ! Report

                4 billion people is enormous, and I think qualifying it with ‘potential’ removes it from being an outrageous statement.

                The devil is in the detail, and without them, might as well be positive as negative

              • September 12th 2017 @ 6:50pm
                UnionThug said | September 12th 2017 @ 6:50pm | ! Report

                Oh, so when discussing why the Rebels should exist instead of the Force, the argument was that Melbourne’s greater population mean’t that it had more “potential market for rugby” despite that market being over-saturated with other sports.

                But now that we are talking about China – a region that World Rugby has already identified as having a massive potential for growth – the same argument for some reason stand and is now irrational optimism?

              • September 12th 2017 @ 8:17pm
                Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 8:17pm | ! Report

                A market isn’t any good if they can’t be mobilised.

                Melbourne gets great attendance per capita in many sports. Melbourne people attend sport. Including football codes.

                That increases the chance of engaging them for rugby.

                Why will people in china be engaged? Is there an increase in interest of western sports?

                I don’t think anybody ever considered the Melbourne market size as more than a passing comment, meaningless on its own.

              • Roar Pro

                September 13th 2017 @ 4:34pm
                Crazy Horse said | September 13th 2017 @ 4:34pm | ! Report

                We saw that massive support for Rugby on the TV as recently as last weekend with the poorly attended Rising game.

              • September 15th 2017 @ 5:27am
                Uncle Eric said | September 15th 2017 @ 5:27am | ! Report

                I’m going to win the lotto jackpot this weekend. That’s irrational optimism, and a lot of people indulge in it every week Piru.

            • September 12th 2017 @ 1:39pm
              not so super said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:39pm | ! Report

              TWAS – let these starry eyed unrealistic head in the sand WA people have their way

              • September 12th 2017 @ 2:30pm
                Ex force fan said | September 12th 2017 @ 2:30pm | ! Report

                That’s the only way professional rugby in WA will survive. You Eastern Staters have Superugby why can’t you just let us develop our own competition as we would also like our children and grandchildren play rugby without having to move thousands of km to realise their dreams. If we were still part of Superugby none of this would be necessary. Remember you kicked us out

              • Roar Rookie

                September 12th 2017 @ 3:02pm
                piru said | September 12th 2017 @ 3:02pm | ! Report

                Yep

                We’ve been kicked out of the party and now some don’t want us going to another one.

              • Roar Rookie

                September 12th 2017 @ 4:03pm
                piru said | September 12th 2017 @ 4:03pm | ! Report

                How can one be simultaneously starry eyed and head in the sand, exactly?

              • September 14th 2017 @ 8:49am
                mtiger said | September 14th 2017 @ 8:49am | ! Report

                Before it was professional, there was no money for rugby too. Money will come, and when a billionaire is looking into it, it will come earlier

          • September 12th 2017 @ 1:02pm
            Steve said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:02pm | ! Report

            Actually, it is based on bigotry due to a vested (yet undeclared) interest.

        • September 12th 2017 @ 12:06pm
          Perthstayer said | September 12th 2017 @ 12:06pm | ! Report

          TWAS above you state:

          “It will be great if the comp can get off, but the cynic in me says working with the ARU gives Forrest one more party to attribute blame to if it doesn’t work out.”

          So your cynicism, based upon the knowledge you provided us with in your comment that is the only issue stopping you from hoping to sees these ideas blossom into reality? .

          I won’t make more than one comment in this box as you often only pinpoint the one that suits your reply and in turn ignore the most salient (Sadly I have now offered you something to respond to other than my comment above)

        • September 12th 2017 @ 3:38pm
          terry tavita said | September 12th 2017 @ 3:38pm | ! Report

          I don’t think you undertand how things work in china..the govt there just recently divested US$100 million towards rugby development..what govt wants govt gets..if it wants a million rugby players in 5 years it WILL get a million rugby players in 5 years..

          • Roar Guru

            September 12th 2017 @ 4:07pm
            The Neutral View From Sweden said | September 12th 2017 @ 4:07pm | ! Report

            TT

            it was not the Chinese government who invested the money. It is a private investment.

            China has massive potential, but to turn China into a Tier 1 rugby nation would take between 15-20 years, and much more money than 100 million USD

            • Roar Pro

              September 13th 2017 @ 4:37pm
              Crazy Horse said | September 13th 2017 @ 4:37pm | ! Report

              That’s what they said about virtually every Olympic sport that China decided to take seriously.

              • September 16th 2017 @ 6:54am
                Scott said | September 16th 2017 @ 6:54am | ! Report

                The Olympics is the bit no one has focused on, a 7’s competition would work. Not so sure about 15’s

          • September 12th 2017 @ 4:20pm
            Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 4:20pm | ! Report

            Who cares how many players they have?

            Unless people are going to watch it, it’s won’t be financially sustainable.

            They are linked, but fan growth is organic.

            • Roar Rookie

              September 12th 2017 @ 4:59pm
              piru said | September 12th 2017 @ 4:59pm | ! Report

              Communists love rugby!

              • Roar Guru

                September 12th 2017 @ 5:14pm
                Machooka said | September 12th 2017 @ 5:14pm | ! Report

                More so they love to share the ball…

              • September 12th 2017 @ 5:46pm
                Train Without A Station said | September 12th 2017 @ 5:46pm | ! Report

                You could be onto something.

                You don’t watch? Off to the gulag!

              • September 15th 2017 @ 5:29am
                Uncle Eric said | September 15th 2017 @ 5:29am | ! Report

                China communist?? In the words of one well known Oz capitalist ‘pig’s arse’.

      • September 12th 2017 @ 1:21pm
        not so super said | September 12th 2017 @ 1:21pm | ! Report

        yes the realists (negatives as you call them) are out today. but also are the unrealistic WA people with their fake facts

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