There’s no excuse for failing to support the Socceroos

Mike Tuckerman Columnist

By Mike Tuckerman, Mike Tuckerman is a Roar Expert

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170 Have your say

    Perhaps there wouldn’t be so many cultural misunderstandings around football if we didn’t get our news delivered to us by comedians in the first place.

    Simon Hill was as forceful as ever as he excoriated the Australian media for perpetuating negative stereotypes about Honduras last week.

    Hill was dead on in explaining why throwaway comments can have far greater consequences than intended, although unfortunately for him he was preaching to the converted.

    Who would want to be a serious journalist these days anyway?

    You either train for years to end up as the first employee on the scrapheap, or by some miracle secure a job which then allows you to spend your downtime reading the comments of an army of online critics who seem to spend every second of every day criticising every single piece of work you do.

    It’s probably why our news broadcasts are now hosted by a bunch of comedians and former reality TV contestants.

    And as much as it would be nice for mainstream Australia to pay more respect to the Socceroos, that’s a tough thing to accomplish when Fox Sports – whose coverage of the game in Honduras was outstanding – is not watched by the majority of Australian households.

    It doesn’t help that the default setting these days is to view absolutely everything in a negative light.

    A quick glance at FourFourTwo’s Australian football forum over the weekend revealed such illuminating topics as “The VAR is a disgrace,” “Adelaide need to sack Marco Kurz,” “What has been Ange’s worst decision as Socceroos coach?” and my personal favourite, “1:1, even losing 1:2, would have been better than 0:0”.

    Never mind balance. Why think the Socceroos might be halfway to Russia when it’s easier just to say something critical instead?

    Present company notwithstanding, it’s safe to say spending time online these days can often be a dispiriting experience.

    Which is why fans in Sydney should get off their devices and get out to ANZ Stadium in Homebush on Wednesday night for the biggest Socceroos game since the Asian Cup final.

    Mathew Leckie of Australia

    (AAP Image/Joe Castro)

    If Honduran fans taught us anything, it’s that the concept of the ‘12th member’ still has a vital role to play in international fixtures.

    And if one of the obvious joys of football is that it’s a shared experience, then there won’t be a better time to make some memories within the next four years than there will be on Wednesday night.

    It’s a shared experience largely missing in our domestic league, and with the Socceroos completely overshadowing the latest round of A-League fixtures, the debate around whether Football Federation Australia should observe international breaks has once again reared its head.

    There’s no doubt in my mind that the A-League should break for internationals, and it’s hard to understand why the FFA is so intent on doing the opposite of what looks like common sense.

    Perhaps they’re just channelling their inner George Costanza, but it doesn’t say much for our appetite for football when only 48,008 fans in total turned up to the A-League this weekend.

    The games were all entertaining fixtures, and Sydney FC’s surprise defeat to the Central Coast Mariners means this season’s title race is anything but a foregone conclusion.

    You could say the same thing about Wednesday night’s do-or-die international showdown, and for once the FFA can be reasonably justified in expecting to put up the ‘Sold Out’ sign on the night.

    It’s Australia’s biggest World Cup qualifier since that famous night against Uruguay in 2005, and it’s a chance for football fans everywhere to really blow off the cobwebs and provide the sort of fanatical support we take for granted elsewhere.

    Because, deep down, isn’t that why we watch football?

    Not to carp and moan, or complain about every little thing? But to share the experience of supporting your team alongside thousands of fellow fans?

    We’ll get that chance on Wednesday night. It’s high time we made the most of it.

    Mike Tuckerman
    Mike Tuckerman

    Mike Tuckerman is a Sydney-born journalist and lifelong football fan. After lengthy stints watching the beautiful game in Germany and Japan, he settled in Brisbane, and has been a leading Roar football columnist from December 2008.

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    The Crowd Says (170)

    • November 13th 2017 @ 8:11am
      j,binnie said | November 13th 2017 @ 8:11am | ! Report

      Mike – Funny you should mention only 48,000 turning out to watch A League games this last week.
      In the same time frame last season we had 57,000 turn out though one of those games (Victory v WSW) contributed almost 22,000 to that figure.(38%)
      This last round too also had only one significant attendance , the 18,000 Victory v Roar ie 38%
      Do you note the similarity?
      This led me to examine this season’s crowds in total and it came as no surprise to find that this season we have had 10 x sub 10,000 crowds.
      Last year at game 30 we had also seen 10 x sub 10,000 crowds.Further similarity.
      The question is ,is this an “accident” or is there some sort of lesson to be learned about how the HAL games are being scheduled,apparently year in year out.?
      Somewhat intrigued I went back another season and found that in round 6 we had another 58,000 turnout (same as last season) with 2 out of the 5 games attracting sub 10000 crowds.
      More and more this seems to be indicating that the overall attendance figures could be improved by better scheduling,especially at the franchises CCM, Jets,Wellington, and Melbourne City who between them contribute greatly to those sub 10000 gate figures.
      Last season only City passed out over that average, helped no doubt by their 2 “derby” games.
      This season so far the same four identities have “contributed” all the sub 10,000 figures.
      Can better scheduling help these four clubs improve their lot . A good question. Cheers jb.

      • November 13th 2017 @ 8:38am
        Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 8:38am | ! Report

        Very good insights, jb; and it’s something the FFA should definitely analyse. No doubt, when the ALeague moves to an independent structure operated by the clubs, such market analysis will be undertaken to leverage the maximum value from ALeague engagement.

        As you would know, back in the day, all English 1st Division (probably all 4 Divisions) kicked off simultaneously on Saturday at 3:00 p.m.

        No doubt, afternoon kick-off would be the best way to get kids to ALeague. Of course, in summer, we are limited in relation to how early we can kick-off since there is high likelihood of extreme heat conditions before the sun sets.

        Then we have further issues with Aussies showing low interest in attending club sport other than Fri, Sat, Sun

        So, this leaves 5 ALeague matches with limited possible viewing windows of 6:00 p.m.-8:00 p.m. on 3 days of the week.

        • November 13th 2017 @ 4:08pm
          j,binnie said | November 13th 2017 @ 4:08pm | ! Report

          nemesis – On the original article promoting “summer soccer” those times you mention were actually the times suggested. and the use of floodlights almost mandatory..
          Unfortunately when the document came up for serious discussion among the power brokers in Sydney this very important part of the suggestion got ignored,
          (The probable cause was that very few of the NSL clubs played at grounds equipped with any sort of floodlights and those that did have “lights”, found they were not good enough to play games under.).
          So , as was usual for the time,that part of the suggestion was put on the back burner. Sometime I wonder have things changed all that much. Cheers jb.

      • November 13th 2017 @ 9:38am
        LuckyEddie said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:38am | ! Report

        Great points JB but let’s face it the FFA does not control the scheduling of games that’s down to the owners of HAL – FOX. Every HAL fans knows that the scheduling is absurd but neither the clubs, fans or FFA have a say. VARS may or may not have a place in football but we are also being let down by divers, time wasting etc. that are a real turn off to any neutral person going to a game.

        Now over the last 2 seasons we have a major problem that is even turning off hard core followers and that is the cynical fouls that blight every game.

        Exciting possible counter attacks are being stopped by cynical fouls on or around half way. It’s endemic and all that happens is teams share yellow cards and think it’s ‘clever’ and are even backed up by commentators with the old “he took one for the team” rubbish. So you go to a game and when exciting features like a quick counter is spoiled by half smart fouls the game is drained of any meaningful excitement and drama. After a few of these you realise that coaches have issued instructions to foul a team trying to make a break and the mug fan sits there frustrated and bored by the ‘tactics’. It really is killing the game for fans and will definately turn any news fans off the game. Add that the obligatory replacements in extra time to waste more time and players pretending they are injured and it becomes a farce. No one in power seems to really care and the stagnation of HAL continues.

        • November 13th 2017 @ 9:50am
          Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:50am | ! Report

          The HAL owners have minimal input to scheduling. That’s done by Fox/FFA

          • November 13th 2017 @ 11:08am
            Lionheart said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:08am | ! Report

            he’s got that – line 2
            I agree completely with you Eddie. Cynical, meaning deliberate, purposeful fouls seems to be increasing in the A League. It’s destroying our game.

        • November 13th 2017 @ 1:45pm
          Fadida said | November 13th 2017 @ 1:45pm | ! Report

          Cynical fouls are part of the game all over the world, as is diving. I think you need to provide evidence that they are”turning off hard core followers”

          • November 13th 2017 @ 2:14pm
            marco said | November 13th 2017 @ 2:14pm | ! Report

            The ratings suggest so…….they’re diabolical! Both FTA & STV

            • November 13th 2017 @ 5:49pm
              Fadida said | November 13th 2017 @ 5:49pm | ! Report

              The ratings don’t suggest an aversion to cynical fouls at all, unless they have managed to break down the data to individual reasons for not watching?

              I’m not saying ratings are good, but I will say that choosing a personal pet hate and then claiming that this is the reason is totally absurd. Personally I think it is the constant complaint and whinging faces of Simon and Brosque that have killed them. Prove otherwise.

          • November 13th 2017 @ 5:43pm
            LuckyEddie said | November 13th 2017 @ 5:43pm | ! Report

            Yes it is problem that it is accepted in football crazy countries where there are no other alternatives. But Australia is different, for a start in summer we can go to the beach, go for a walk after sun set, watch basketball, Big Bash, test cricket, swimming comps etc. etc. So because cheating is accepted overseas and people with no viable options put up with it, it will not work here.

            As for hardcore supporters turning away look at some of the poor crowds and memberships that have been stagnant for years or like Roar are dropping. Roar had about 11k members until the Liverpool ticket debacle and now have about 6k.

            People can turn their nose up at what I am saying but do what I once did. I invited a neutral sports fan to a game, he was totally bemused by the out and out cheating and time wasting and will never be back. I was just totlly embarrassed that the game I love had turned into a cheat-a-thon and had all the charm of a z-grade movie. On top of that we have these half way fouls to break up attacks, it’s a joke and football needs to either fix it or watch HAL slowly sink.

            The TV ratings are terrible and it’s not because of the talent of the players but more to do with the rubbish going on that simply adds up to cheating.

            So any reference to Europe is just not valid in our market and if you check on a lot of European clubs their ave attendance are not that great either.

            • November 13th 2017 @ 11:17pm
              Redondo said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:17pm | ! Report

              So is the Roar’s membership problem down to the Liverpool ticket debacle or cynical fouls? You seem unsure.

              • November 14th 2017 @ 6:55am
                LuckyEddie said | November 14th 2017 @ 6:55am | ! Report

                Look you can ignore what’s happening if you like but give up on the kiddie replies. You’ve become cynical watching cynical fails and it is affecting your ability to comprehend.

              • November 14th 2017 @ 10:02am
                Redondo said | November 14th 2017 @ 10:02am | ! Report

                Kiddie replies?? Your argument has so many holes and non-sequiturs I didn’t know where to start.

                With apologies to Monty Python…

                Nobody expects falling crowds – our chief problem is cynical fouls…our two problems are cynical fouls and time wasting…our three problems are cynical fouls, time wasting and the Liverpool ticket debacle…our four problems are cynical fouls, time wasting, the Liverpool ticket debacle and competition from other more ethical pursuits…our five problems…

                So even you know it’s far more complicated than cynical fouls but you keep fixating on that.

                ‘For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.’

              • November 14th 2017 @ 3:44pm
                Fadida said | November 14th 2017 @ 3:44pm | ! Report

                Amazingly lack of goals wasn’t mentioned too Redondo. That would have completed the set; cynical fouls, diving, lack of goals.

                Oh,and hooliganism

        • November 13th 2017 @ 2:28pm
          Redondo said | November 13th 2017 @ 2:28pm | ! Report

          Eddie/Lionheart/Marco – are you suggesting Australians have a unique aversion to cynical fouls?

          Our national cricket team has majored in cynical unsporting conduct since the Chappelli era and that never dented its popularity.

          • November 13th 2017 @ 2:52pm
            Lionheart said | November 13th 2017 @ 2:52pm | ! Report

            I’d suggest it’s worse now than it was a few years ago, much worse.
            As for the crowd effect, it’s certainly a reason frequently given by potential fans for not watching. If someone wants to mock the game, it’s their first port of call.

            • November 13th 2017 @ 3:00pm
              Redondo said | November 13th 2017 @ 3:00pm | ! Report

              If someone already wants to mock the game what can the game do about it?

              I agree with cracking down on cynical fouls but it’s hard to do without increasing the amount of cynical simulation.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 5:49pm
                LuckyEddie said | November 13th 2017 @ 5:49pm | ! Report

                Simple the next smartie that fouls a player near half way when that player is trying to make a break give him a red card. If a player dives for a penalty and VARS looks at it there can only be two outcomes, a penalty or a send off for the dive.

                FFA needs to approach managers and explain to them that cynical fouls and time wasting might be ok with them but the mugs paying will just stay away. The FTA ratings will back me up in that even football people cannot be bothered watching cynical rubbish. I feel sorry for some of the players but if they do not follow the mangers rules they are out of a job.

              • November 14th 2017 @ 3:46pm
                Fadida said | November 14th 2017 @ 3:46pm | ! Report

                Lucky Eddie, you do realise FFA aren’t allowed to change the rules of the game to suit the casual Australian sports fan?

      • Roar Guru

        November 13th 2017 @ 12:20pm
        Cousin Claudio said | November 13th 2017 @ 12:20pm | ! Report

        Agree the international weeks should be A-League free. The crowd figures back that up, so not sure why FFA won’t budge. The absence for a week or so might have made the hearts grow fonder and added more to the turnstiles.

        Also maybe do some advertising for the A-League during the Socceroos telecasts, we have a few A-Leaguers in the Socceroos team, so we should sell that. Instead nothing.

        Overall avge attendance is still ahead of last season by about 10%, but not sure for how much longer.
        Maybe if the Socceroos qualify and we do some more promotion, free tickets for registered players, something, we might start growing again.

        The AFL gave away a heap of free tickets and promotions in Sydney and they had a good year.

        • November 13th 2017 @ 1:14pm
          matth said | November 13th 2017 @ 1:14pm | ! Report

          I would imagine there was a deliberate move to schedule potentially lower drawing games this week, on the expectation that attendances would be down anyway? Or was the schedule set long before the World Cup playoff became a reality?

        • November 13th 2017 @ 2:10pm
          j,binnie said | November 13th 2017 @ 2:10pm | ! Report

          Claudio – When doing a comparison using “average crowds ” as a measuring stick one has to make sure the data being used is accurate.
          This being so we must compare the aggregate crowd at game 30 with the aggregate crowd for 30 matches at this time last year.
          Last season at game 30, played on the 13th November, the HAL had drawn a total of 444,674 to all games.
          As of yesterday, the 12th November (a year later) the HAL had drawn a total of 392,307 to all games.
          So as you can see this years crowds are actually down by 52,370 (or 8.5%).
          The aggregate average crowd at this point in time last year was 14,822 compared to last night’s 13,077.
          That was the whole point of my original article, something has to be done to stop this gradual but inevitable decline that is going on. Cheers jb.

          • November 13th 2017 @ 3:14pm
            Kangajets said | November 13th 2017 @ 3:14pm | ! Report

            J b

            Despite the crowds it was an interesting weekend of games

            Very open competition

            Can Newcastle Jets do a leceister city this year ?

            • November 13th 2017 @ 4:14pm
              j,binnie said | November 13th 2017 @ 4:14pm | ! Report

              Kangajet – In no way was that article belittling the four clubs mentioned. In fact it was more of a heart cry to help those clubs out by ensuring they get game scheduling that suits their potential fan base. Cheers jb.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 7:24pm
                Kangajets said | November 13th 2017 @ 7:24pm | ! Report

                J b

                No offence taken

                Just trying to get a football discussion going re the quality of round 6

                Hypothetically

                If Newcastle were at home to Sydney FC this weekend I think we get 15000 especially Sunday 5 pm

      • November 13th 2017 @ 4:26pm
        Buddy said | November 13th 2017 @ 4:26pm | ! Report

        Hey JB, I went to the City vs WSW game last night. We hd about 120-150 travelling fans which is no mean effort when you look at scheduling as a 7-00 pm Kick off – which was also delayed meant you had to stay Sunday night if flying due to Sydney curfew. So here we are, extra day off work enjoying some warm Sunshine in Melbourne heading back tonight with the club still boasting they are unbeaten and the fans are still wondering how the team can slip out of draw mode….sometimes a loss can do more good than yet another drawer…. it sends a different message. However, the main point of this is to express frustration with timing as we were unable to swell the crowd in the usual style and it seems Melburnians are not going to fall in love with MC no matter what. The home fans around us just complained for 90 minutes. It was either the ref, WSW were filthy animals or Melbourne City were useless and we worry about negative comments on here!

      • November 14th 2017 @ 2:07pm
        Tommo said | November 14th 2017 @ 2:07pm | ! Report

        Maybe those 4 clubs should be done away with or at least combined to form 2 clubs.

        • November 14th 2017 @ 3:49pm
          Fadida said | November 14th 2017 @ 3:49pm | ! Report

          Why?

          • November 14th 2017 @ 3:53pm
            Tommo said | November 14th 2017 @ 3:53pm | ! Report

            Poor attendences.

    • November 13th 2017 @ 8:21am
      AR said | November 13th 2017 @ 8:21am | ! Report

      What did I just read?

      First, Mike, if you’re getting your “news” from The Project (the program I believe was responsible for the ISIS comment) then there’s your problem.

      Seriously, that’s almost worse than people getting their news from Facebook.

      Second, The Project’s entire shtick is to take the p*ss. Even if the precious Hondurans don’t understand that, we certainly should.

      Third, if negative articles are a bugbear, then stop writing them. If critical discussion of issues and analysis is more your thing, then, as you were.

      • Roar Rookie

        November 13th 2017 @ 9:00am
        The Phantom Commissioner said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:00am | ! Report

        The Hondurans are precious, Ha yes because we’re so great at taking a joke…ask Robin Williams!

        • November 13th 2017 @ 10:01am
          AR said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:01am | ! Report

          If the Hondurans took offence to a comment made on an Australian comedy program, then yes, they’re precious.

          If Australians took offence in a similar vein (I.e the “Cangaru” reference), then yes, we’d be precious too.

          But as a general rule, I think Aussies aren’t too bad at laughing at themselves.

    • November 13th 2017 @ 8:48am
      marcel said | November 13th 2017 @ 8:48am | ! Report

      Of the 3 possible scenarios on Wed night. 2 will see Honduras qualify…but only 1 will take us to Russia. Statistically speaking Honduras came away from the first leg with an advantage.

      I can’t begin to see how someone making that observation is an issue for you Mike.

      • November 13th 2017 @ 8:57am
        punter said | November 13th 2017 @ 8:57am | ! Report

        Not sure if you follow football or not, but every manager in the world would take a nil-nil draw away from home in the 1st leg of a 2 legged tie, unless of course you know very little about football & wish the Socceroos to not qualify.

        • November 13th 2017 @ 9:20am
          Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:20am | ! Report

          Punter, in European competitions with the away goal rule the home team manager is very happy not to concede the away goal. The relative benefit is debatable but getting an away goal is definitely a prize the away manager values and often, in the first leg, it’s the away side that’s the most adventurous and the home more conservative ie the home side is often the happier with a 0-0.

          Watching the European qualifiers on tv this past week, where a team has failed to score away from home the European commentators have all used expressions like “they may regret not getting an away goal”. They appreciate the significance of away goals even if many in Australia don’t.

          Some perspective is needed on this topic mind you, yes a 2-2 draw would have put us in a match stronger position but a 0-0 is not to be sniffed at. And in Europe the quality of the teams is much closer meaning their knock out games should be closer than perhaps ours are.

          This debate only becomes relevant if Honduras score, but anyone who mentions the away goal on these pages is getting shot down, unfairly imo. It would be the height of arrogance to assume Honduras don’t appreciate its significance!

          • November 13th 2017 @ 9:23am
            Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:23am | ! Report

            “and the home more conservative ie the home side is often the happier with a 0-0. ”

            I have never ever heard this from any manager anywhere in the world, in any competition.

            You actually think in a 2 leg tie, a team thinks a draw in the Home Leg is better than winning the home leg? Seriously?

            Of course, it’s vital not to concede an Away Goal. But, it’s far better to Win a match 10-9 than draw a match 0-0. Why?

            Because in sport, a win is better than a draw.

            • November 13th 2017 @ 9:59am
              Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:59am | ! Report

              Nemesis, I never said a 0-0 draw was better than a win. That’s something you keep introducing to try and make your point seem more valid than mine/others.

              The point I am making is, that when the away goal rule is in play and the match has already finished 0-0, in European competitions it is typically the home team coach that is more satisfied knowing s/he can play the second leg and go through with either a win or a score draw whereas the home manager knows they must win the second leg or risk penalties if it’s 0-0 again.

              These are very common sentiments in the european and were echoed by the equivalents of Bozza & Co in post match analysis on tv over the last week.

              This is not news to European football supporters – the lack of an away goal can be problematic.

              If you can’t stay civil in these debates please don’t bother replying. I will report your posts.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 10:10am
                Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:10am | ! Report

                Of course, after the game we can look at all sorts of results as being “not as bad as another”.

                After the 1st leg against Uruguay in 2001, we lost 1-0.

                For Uruguay, a 1-0 home win was better than 0-0 draw, or even better than a 2-1 win.

                But, for Uruguay, a 1-0 home win was worse than a 2-0 win or any win by 2 or more goals.

                Etc. Etc.

                In 2 leg play off Home & Away, the home team needs to win. If AUS don’t win, then we don’t deserve anything from this play-off.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 11:53am
                Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:53am | ! Report

                There you go again. You keep changing what this part of the discussion is about to suit your purposes and the point you are trying to make.

                This is a narrow part of the discussion that centres on one point and one point alone – the away goal rule. You keep broadening this part of the discussion beyond that which isn’t helpful.

                The fact is Australia didn’t get an away goal. That could hurt them, and it does give their opponents hope.

                Had we got an away goal we would kick off the game knowing a 0-0 gets us through. That’s important only because on what it means for pressure, but go 3-0 and we can all relax.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 1:08pm
                Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 1:08pm | ! Report

                “Had we got an away goal we would kick off the game knowing a 0-0 gets us through.”

                Totally agree.

                How did that Away Goal work out for us in 1997 against Iran?

                How did that Away Goal work our for us last month against Syria?

          • November 13th 2017 @ 9:39am
            chris said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:39am | ! Report

            Waz the ones getting shot down are the “experts” who come on here and say “away goals count double”, even when its been explained to them that they don’t.
            0-0 is not as good as 1-1 which is not as good as 2-2 which is not as good as 3-3 etc etc etc.

            • November 13th 2017 @ 10:18am
              Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:18am | ! Report

              Correct, and there is some confusion over the concept admittedly.

          • November 13th 2017 @ 10:28am
            Punter said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:28am | ! Report

            Let’s get facts right, away goal is only worth double if it’s a score draw. I think most coaches would accept a nil all draw away from home. An away goal would be huge especially if winning or drawing. Australia did have 3 great ppportunites to score an away goal. So we did create, despite playing more defensive game. Plus they really didn’t look like scoring at home where it’s their advantage. This is where we take the postiviness.

      • November 13th 2017 @ 9:04am
        Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:04am | ! Report

        This lack of an away goal has sent many a commentator into a tail spin, it’s as if acknowledging this little Achilles Heal will somehow release the demons lol.

        Defending for a 0-0 draw and hoping to get a goal on the counter attack is probably Honduras best strategy, especially with their best striker returning for this game. If the get an early away goal it will change the dynamic of the tie completely.

        Ordinarily this wouldn’t be too much of a concern but we have shown an ability to create numerous chances but an inability to put many away. We could easily run away with this game 4-0 or be left clinging on 1-0 at the end. It’s going to be big either way 😀

        • November 13th 2017 @ 9:33am
          jamesb said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:33am | ! Report

          Put it this way.

          Australia is in a better position now compared to Uruguay in 2005. At the start of the second leg, we were a goal down. At the time, i was confident that Australia would do something under Guus.

          • November 13th 2017 @ 10:22am
            Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:22am | ! Report

            Sure. And of course 3–3 on aggregate, where Iran won on away goals springs to mind too.

            This whole debate is about Wednesday where an away goal for Honduras will change the dynamic of the game totally. They will know that

          • Roar Rookie

            November 13th 2017 @ 1:34pm
            Brendo51 said | November 13th 2017 @ 1:34pm | ! Report

            Aren’t we in nearly the same position. We need to score 1 goal and stop them scoring a goal.

            That was/is the same in both games, the only difference was/is for Uruguay it sent us to a penalty shootout and here it will win it outright for us. Which yes is a better position

            In both cases if the opposition scores we are more likely to not go through (unless you believe we can put more than 1 past them). I suppose you could argue that it is a better position as we would only need 2 goals if they score rather than 3 in the Uruguay case.

      • November 13th 2017 @ 9:43am
        Redondo said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:43am | ! Report

        The away goal rule means there are 4 scenarios:

        Aus wins and Aus qualify
        Honduras wins and Honduras qualifies
        Score draw and Honduras qualifies
        0-0 draw after extra time and it’s penalties to decide

        • November 13th 2017 @ 9:48am
          Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:48am | ! Report

          Yup. Basically the same scenario we faced when we played Syria at home, with following amendment:

          Aus wins and Aus qualify
          0-0 draw AUS qualifies

          Syria wins and Syria qualifies
          Draw with more than 1 goal & Syria qualifies

          1-1 draw after extra time and it’s penalties to decide

        • November 13th 2017 @ 9:59am
          Redondo said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:59am | ! Report

          It’s the 0-0 first leg that makes it edgier for Aus – one slip and Honduras can defend all night

          • November 13th 2017 @ 10:05am
            Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:05am | ! Report

            That would be even worse if Honduras had won the 1st leg, which is what most pundits & fans expected Honduras to do when they were playing at home.

            • November 13th 2017 @ 10:33am
              Redondo said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:33am | ! Report

              Yes but if Aus had drawn 1-1 away then Aus could defend all night on Wednesday knowing 0-0 is a win, courtesy of the 1-1 away result (retrospectively turning a 1-1 draw into a win).

              The away goal rule is a strange beast – it shouldn’t mean so much but it plays with people’s minds.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 11:10am
                Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:10am | ! Report

                We did draw 1-1 away to Syria.

                The match ended up being won in Extra Time.

                Nothing about Ange indicates he would set up to defend all night to get a result.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 11:31am
                chris said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:31am | ! Report

                What annoys me about the away goals rule is that the team playing away in the second leg (potentially) gets an extra 30 mins to score that away goal.
                I wonder if FIFA have ever looked into stopping the away goal rule, once the 90mins is up?
                Any thoughts?
                I know playing second is usually an advantage as you know exactly what needs to be done, but I think in this case, that’s been nullified by the fact Australia has basically had to cross the world twice as opposed to Hondurans, once.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 11:54am
                Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:54am | ! Report

                They have in the past stopped the away goal rule for extra time. Not sure what the rule is for Wednesday though.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 12:39pm
                chris said | November 13th 2017 @ 12:39pm | ! Report

                Waz Ive never heard of the away goal not counting in extra time. If it was used somewhere in the past I think it makes good sense.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 12:55pm
                Waz said | November 13th 2017 @ 12:55pm | ! Report

                I can’t find any references to it but I know it has been done. It was designed to fix the unfairness of the team being given an extra 30 minutes to score the away goal. Im not sure if the a way goals still count in extra time this week tho …

              • November 13th 2017 @ 12:53pm
                Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 12:53pm | ! Report

                For WC2018 the Away Goals Rule applies to Extra Time goals. Hence, if Syria had equalised in the final minute, we’d be out of WC2018.

                For the Asian Champions League (2018), however,

                Section 4: Technical Regulations

                12.2 “The Away Goals Rule shall only apply at the conclusion of normal playing time of the 2nd Match in any tie in the Knockout Stage. It shall not apply in Extra Time of any Match.”

              • November 13th 2017 @ 2:41pm
                chris said | November 13th 2017 @ 2:41pm | ! Report

                Thanks Nem. Makes total sense to not have it in extra time

        • November 13th 2017 @ 10:43am
          Kevin said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:43am | ! Report

          So logically and probablitly wise ;your saying on this ..

          Australia win =1 point

          Honduras win =1 point

          Score draw Honduras =1 point

          0-0 draw = 1/2 a point ( 50 -50 chance on penalties)

          Total probalilty is

          Australia 1.5 point

          Honduras 2.5 points

          Do we all concur?? Or is there still some grey areas surrounding the maths..

          • November 13th 2017 @ 10:50am
            Redondo said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:50am | ! Report

            It’s not probability – just scenarios.

            From what we saw on Saturday, the probability of Honduras winning or even score-drawing is quite low.

            Then again, the probability of Aus scoring is also quite low. So I’d say penalties are a good bet.

          • November 13th 2017 @ 11:01am
            Nemesis said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:01am | ! Report

            @Kevin

            I do not agree with any of the probability projections you have suggested

            This is my scenario assessment

            AUS Qualify: 82.5%
            HON Qualify: 17.5%

            AUS Win: 80%
            0-0: 5%
            (Penalty Shootout AUS: 2.5%
            Penalty Shootout HON: 2.5%)

            HON Win: 5%
            Score Draw: 10%

            • November 13th 2017 @ 11:15am
              Kevin said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:15am | ! Report

              Probability does not take into account the quality of the competing teams.

              You may well be right..

              But it was an equation to show the probable outcomes that lie ahead in the second leg of a tie when the away goals rule is used ..and the first result was 0-0 ..

              With a score in the first leg the score draw in the second may then favour the home team .. but sadly not for us

              Scenarios do put this on favour of the Socceroos..but scenarios do also not take into account someone ripping the net down ..an injury . .a red card… a lucky deflection .etc etc ..

              • November 13th 2017 @ 11:35am
                Brian said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:35am | ! Report

                They have of course been widespread stats done on 1st leg results.
                They show that when the first leg ends 0-0 the home team in the 2nd leg is more likely to advance. Likewise for a 2-1 or 3-2 away loss in the first leg. A 2-4 or 0-1 loss is the tipping point at which it is more likely the home team from the 1st leg will win.

                So Australia are in pole, although we should not forget that the Syria game after 90 minutes finished 1-1, the Thailand game was 1-1 late on. 1-1 will not do on Wednesday

              • Roar Rookie

                November 13th 2017 @ 1:46pm
                Brendo51 said | November 13th 2017 @ 1:46pm | ! Report

                Kevin
                Just because you allocate a equal chance to all scenarios does not make your probability equation valid.

                If I weight a die in favor of a six coming up is the probability still 1/6?

                To make you equation valid you need to allocate a weighting to each scenario. You could do this by assessing central america teams travelling to Asia and their history of winning ties/drawing ties. You would also need to weigh in factors of such as travel time, importance of match, relative difference in strength of teams etc etc.

                I am not going to do that but based on gut feel I think Nemesis assessment is closer than yours (I would probably switch around the score draw and 0-0 draw percentages to be honest as I think Honduras will be “parking the bus” and holding out for a 0-0 result.

              • November 13th 2017 @ 2:33pm
                Kevin said | November 13th 2017 @ 2:33pm | ! Report

                That’s why I said it does not take into account the competing teams ..

                just a probable outcome.of 4 chances ..

                Hence why the sporting odds don’t factor each as an equal chance ..

                It’s more a statement of the earlier conversation.. that a 0-0 first leg result took a scored draw out of the equation for Socceroos

          • November 13th 2017 @ 11:21am
            Marcel said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:21am | ! Report

            There is an interesting study that demonstrates a slight..but observable advantage to taking the first penalty…something like 52/48 rather than 50/50 …I will try to find it..

            One suggestion is that penalties be alternated like service in a tennis tie-breaker.

        • November 13th 2017 @ 2:25pm
          Marcel said | November 13th 2017 @ 2:25pm | ! Report

          Hi Redondo…that was my first thought..but 0-0 goes to penalties, where someone has to win..0-0 is not a complete scenario in itself ..so I didnt count it.

          • November 13th 2017 @ 3:24pm
            Redondo said | November 13th 2017 @ 3:24pm | ! Report

            Fair enough – but somehow it just seems different enough to count as a separate scenario.

            • November 13th 2017 @ 3:31pm
              Marcel said | November 13th 2017 @ 3:31pm | ! Report

              Hopefully the win is all we are counting on Wed night!

    • November 13th 2017 @ 9:06am
      marcel said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:06am | ! Report

      Punter…you are turning into Fuss with the unnecessary insults..

      • November 13th 2017 @ 9:12am
        punter said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:12am | ! Report

        My apologies Marcel no insult intended. Most football fans, teams, managers would accept a nil nil result, so hence the know very little about football comment & having read some of your posts you either are a very negative person on the Socceroos chances or you are wishing the Socceroos ill.

        Again my apologies for misinterpreting my comment!!!!!

        • November 13th 2017 @ 10:24am
          Marcel said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:24am | ! Report

          Cheers Punter….we are all just swapping some banter here trying to make the time until kick-off on Wed go faster…I will attempt to find an apology somewhere in your smart ar53d reply.

          Im not an overly negative person…just a realist..I can support the Socceroos without being blind to their shortcomings..one of which is our current inability to take the few chances we create.

          Im happy with the result on Sat..traditionally it has always been seen as a good result…but the game has changed ..and the ability for a lesser team to close down a game and steal a goal against play is much more of a threat than it used to be.

          An away goal would have been nice..either one of the sitters that Juric was unable to convert would have helped.

          But I guess then we would be debating if the advantage..invites the danger of complacency…and is really a disadvantage!…thats just they way these sites work.

          • November 13th 2017 @ 11:35am
            chris said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:35am | ! Report

            Marcel I agree that the danger is they park the bus at 1-1 or even 0-1.
            We desperately need to score first to bring them out. If we do i can see us getting a few more as they have shown to be vulnerable (lacking ticker?) away from home.

    • November 13th 2017 @ 9:41am
      Worlds Biggest said | November 13th 2017 @ 9:41am | ! Report

      Well said Mike, no reason why ANZ Stadium shouldn’t be packed on Wednesday night. Let’s get behind our Socceroos, I will be there and can’t wait !

    • November 13th 2017 @ 10:29am
      Square Nostrils said | November 13th 2017 @ 10:29am | ! Report

      Personally I dont buy this home and away leg advantage/disadvantage, if your good enough overall you win, if your good enough on the day you win.
      If the Socceroos cant beat Honduras if they bring the same quality to Sydney as we saw last Saturday morning, then they dont deserve to be at the World Cup.
      Ange will either be revered if Australia wins or a fool,arrogant ,dogmatic, stubborn whatever takes your fancy if they lose or its a score draw or 0-0 then lose on penalties.

      Scheduling in the A-League is pathetic, without analysing it, surely there are more Thursday night and 7pm Sunday kick offs than ever before?
      Next week round 7 on Saturday night we have the 2 Sydney teams playing their home matches one immediately after the other. The Wanderers kick off at 5.35 followed by Sydney FC at 7.50.
      There is evidence from of over a 100 years of football history in the UK that if there’s only 2 teams in a city you alternate the home weekends for the clubs.
      I know from personal experience that some football fans , despite intense rivalries in such 2 city teams, will turn up if the cross city opposition has an attractive fixture.
      There is a monster puppeteer controlling the A-League called Subscription TV, I know everybody understands this, but I dont believe everybody understands the depth of that control.
      Lets analyse the massive difference between leagues that are several generations old and ones not even out of short pants like the A-League.
      These Leagues were supported & driven for a few generations by attendances ,with regular Saturday 3 o’clock kick offs.
      TV came later, but because the support was deeply established , any money from it was used to enhance an already strong product, the EPL being a classic example.
      The A-League was entirely the opposite, TV money was needed to survive, in fact to help the league hang around long enough to grow its attendances, lure spectators in the hope they’d form an attachment to a club.
      Subscription TV needed its pound of flesh, content, the A-League then dances on the strings of Foxtel, too scared to lose their dough as club support in its own right by attendance at the gate is still weak, a classic chicken egg scenario.
      How to fix it, tough question and difficult to answer, because fans dont know the degree of fear the FFA has towards Foxtel in its negotiations regarding scheduling, the fear coming from losing ground regarding money in the bank.
      Sort of like the Fred the serf not upsetting the Lord, just in case the Lord gives his scratchy plot of land to Arthur.
      I guess what independently has to be established is can the scheduling be improved to the satisfaction of both parties, that IMO opinion would be more clearly answered if the A-League was independent, ie the serf was removed and replaced by a group of Lords in their own right.

      • November 13th 2017 @ 11:19am
        punter said | November 13th 2017 @ 11:19am | ! Report

        While I don’t disagree with your sentiments, it does appear to make a difference.

        PSG 4 Barcelona 0 in Paris, 2 weeks later in Barcelona, Barcalona 6, PSG 1.

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