Karmichael steps down from Reds training despite ‘dropped’ charge

By AAP,

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    Karmichael Hunt won’t be allowed to return to training with the Queensland Reds until after his next day in court despite claims his cocaine charge will be dropped.

    Hunt has voluntarily stood down from all Reds training until February 19, his second court date stemming from his arrest in Fortitude Valley late last year.

    The 30-year-old was initially charged with two counts of possessing dangerous drugs – for cocaine and prescription drug Xanax – and one count of contravening a police direction, after failing to report to a police station on time for fingerprinting.

    Hunt’s lawyer, Adam Magill, says he has a “written undertaking” from Queensland police that the cocaine charge will be dropped because of a lack of evidence.

    However, the charge cannot be formally withdrawn until court revisits the matter.

    In any case, Hunt’s future remains up in the air with the strong possibility his contract could still be torn up by Rugby Australia for breaching their code of conduct by bringing the sport into disrepute.

    The Reds seem to be planning for life after Hunt, with the club close to officially announcing the signing of Brumbies fullback Aidan Toua.

    Ben Lucas, Filipo Daugunu and Lachlan Maranta are also able to fill in at No.15, giving new coach Brad Thorn plenty of options.

    Reds star Samu Kerevi said he didn’t know when Hunt would be permitted to return to training but stressed he was still in his teammate’s corner.

    “At the end of the day he’s a brother of mine,” Kerevi said.

    “I’ve had a lot of questions about him. His privacy’s the most important thing right now.

    “He’s got a beautiful family that’s backing him and I hope nothing but the best for him.

    “Personally, my door will always be open for him if he needs anything … it’s something I feel like should be dealt with behind closed doors.”

    Queensland start their Super Rugby campaign away to the Melbourne Rebels on February 23.

    © AAP 2018

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    The Crowd Says (62)

    • February 8th 2018 @ 2:07am
      Malo said | February 8th 2018 @ 2:07am | ! Report

      Qld are gone, the qru should be ashamed at the amount they wasted on criminals like hunt and q.c. They could have developed a whole new squad. Spooners.

      • February 8th 2018 @ 11:28am
        Train Without A Station said | February 8th 2018 @ 11:28am | ! Report

        By criminals you mean two blokes that have never been convicted of a crime?

        I.E. not criminals.

        • February 8th 2018 @ 12:13pm
          Redsfan1 said | February 8th 2018 @ 12:13pm | ! Report

          Well actually Hunt was guilty last time wasn’t he? And he is still up for a charge now. Cooper committed the crime-not disputed- he just settled out of court.

        • February 8th 2018 @ 4:12pm
          Jacko said | February 8th 2018 @ 4:12pm | ! Report

          Yes TWAS you can be a criminal without getting caught

          • February 8th 2018 @ 4:33pm
            JP said | February 8th 2018 @ 4:33pm | ! Report

            Julian Savea was caught and he was still capped by the AB`S. I don’t know what the fuss is all about.

            • February 8th 2018 @ 10:13pm
              Jacko said | February 8th 2018 @ 10:13pm | ! Report

              Agree

          • February 8th 2018 @ 9:19pm
            Train Without A Station said | February 8th 2018 @ 9:19pm | ! Report

            And unless you witnessed the crime, how can any of us say they are without a jury finding them guilty?

            In the eyes of the law and society, without a conviction, you are innocent.

            • February 9th 2018 @ 3:43am
              Taylorman said | February 9th 2018 @ 3:43am | ! Report

              Law yes, society no..still a criminal there…

      • February 9th 2018 @ 10:39am
        Realist said | February 9th 2018 @ 10:39am | ! Report

        Interesting rumours that the Police have now advised they will not press charges – I wonder if Karmichael is up to his old tricks again? Could you think of a worse person to be stuck in the trenches with ?

    • February 8th 2018 @ 2:41am
      MH01 said | February 8th 2018 @ 2:41am | ! Report

      Not sure who I’m more disappointed with, Hunt for yet again getting caught or the Police for yet again failing to “put” a case together. Cya all again in about 6-12 months ?

    • February 8th 2018 @ 5:06am
      P2R2 said | February 8th 2018 @ 5:06am | ! Report

      …the sooner he is cut (for good) and the CEO of RA should announce this…the better…they guy is a muppet

      • February 8th 2018 @ 10:13am
        ScottD said | February 8th 2018 @ 10:13am | ! Report

        Slow learner

    • February 8th 2018 @ 10:45am
      Cynical Play said | February 8th 2018 @ 10:45am | ! Report

      Never fails to amaze me how the fans call for be-heading based on allegations. Clearly he didn’t have any coke, the cops dropped the charges. Let him play, QLD need him and he is fundamentally a good person

      • February 8th 2018 @ 12:06pm
        Train Without A Station said | February 8th 2018 @ 12:06pm | ! Report

        Nah lack of sufficient evidence to pursue charges is just a “technicality” apparently…

        I reckon it probably was his, but what I reckon is irrelevant. Innocent until proven guilty.

        • February 8th 2018 @ 4:58pm
          Cynical Play said | February 8th 2018 @ 4:58pm | ! Report

          lack of evidence would = no coke, right?
          ..and it’s not illegal to carry xanax

          • February 8th 2018 @ 9:21pm
            Train Without A Station said | February 8th 2018 @ 9:21pm | ! Report

            It may be without a prescription.

            Not sure though. I better keep my pitch fork raised just in case it is.

        • February 8th 2018 @ 7:34pm
          scottd said | February 8th 2018 @ 7:34pm | ! Report

          Only one charge was “dropped” not the other(s) and the charge has been reported as dropped but has not been confirmed as yet. Hunt’s agent has stated that they were told this would be confirmed in writing but are still waiting for the letter.

          The issue for me and may others isn’t that he may or may not be guilty but that a guy at his age/stage has been down this path before. If he is serious about taking a leadership role at SR (or any other professional sporting franchise) or to represent his country then he needs to get a bit smarter about life and stop putting himself in the public eye for the wrong (and very preventable) reasons.

          He is giving my favourite sport negative publicity because he is stupid and I and every other fan of the game have the right to be dirty about it and to be vocal about how we feel.

          • February 8th 2018 @ 9:25pm
            Train Without A Station said | February 8th 2018 @ 9:25pm | ! Report

            I get your point.

            But how can one get smarter about avoiding charges which are dropped?

            It doesn’t take any wrong doing to be charged.

            • February 9th 2018 @ 3:49am
              Taylorman said | February 9th 2018 @ 3:49am | ! Report

              If you think that ‘twas then you have probably been charged similarly, because it’s that thinking that gets up you down at the station in the end.

              You get smarter, by not being charged, by not being in situations where illegal drugs are found on the ground beside you.

              You’re applying benefit of the doubt here very poorly.

              • February 9th 2018 @ 10:17am
                Fionn said | February 9th 2018 @ 10:17am | ! Report

                ‘You get smarter, by not being charged, by not being in situations where illegal drugs are found on the ground beside you.’

                It is quite possible for anyone to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You could sit down on a bench today, Taylorman, and someone could have dropped drugs next to you.

              • Roar Guru

                February 9th 2018 @ 10:35am
                Train Without A Station said | February 9th 2018 @ 10:35am | ! Report

                Nah he’s got a point.

                Karmichael Hunt should have been smart enough to know to never be in a public place. If he didn’t leave his home he wouldn’t have been charged!

              • February 9th 2018 @ 1:25pm
                scottd said | February 9th 2018 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

                Easy enough to change your lifestyle and avoid putting yourself in those kinds of situations i.e. avoiding association with the illicit drug culture and the people in it.

                You can dress this up as a public liberty/rights issue but the reality is it just take a conscious decision at a certain point in your life. We have all been there and done it.

                it’s one of the things you need to do if you are serious about being seen as a leader and a worthy person to represent your Family/State/or Country

              • Roar Rookie

                February 9th 2018 @ 1:34pm
                piru said | February 9th 2018 @ 1:34pm | ! Report

                It can be done Scott, but I don’t know that I’d say it’s easy

                Look at Ben Cousins

              • Roar Guru

                February 9th 2018 @ 1:40pm
                Train Without A Station said | February 9th 2018 @ 1:40pm | ! Report

                The only conscious decision we know was made, was Karmichael’s to be in public.

                You can dress it up however you like, but there’s no evidence of any wrongdoing.

              • February 9th 2018 @ 9:36pm
                scottd said | February 9th 2018 @ 9:36pm | ! Report

                Piru
                I don’t disagree that it can be hard for some people but I think the Cousins issue is as much about addiction as anything else mate. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Hunt is in that box. (Or at least I hope not for his sake). Most people (the vast majority) go a little off the rails when they are young and bullet proof and then get their act together sometime in their 20’s (yep speaking from experience). But Hunt is 30…. is it too late?

                TWAS
                Correct, I am not saying he has done anything illegal. Just stupidly hung out with people that do drugs when he is (like it or not) a public figure and a high profile leader in a professional sports team. At some point in your life you wake up and grow up. I just don’t think he is there yet and as a result we/he are where we/he are today. Just disappointing for him and his team and rugby in general really don’t you think?

              • February 9th 2018 @ 10:34pm
                Train Without A Station said | February 9th 2018 @ 10:34pm | ! Report

                What mate’s?

                Remember, nobody has been convicted here.

              • February 10th 2018 @ 10:59am
                scottd said | February 10th 2018 @ 10:59am | ! Report

                I feel you’re being deliberately obtuse mate. Drugs were found and so someone is doing drugs. Walk away KH walk away…..that bit isn’t rocket science

              • Roar Guru

                February 10th 2018 @ 4:51pm
                Train Without A Station said | February 10th 2018 @ 4:51pm | ! Report

                Yes.

                Doesn’t mean Hunt or anybody he knows was in any way associated though.

                It was in the CBD. Unlikely they were the only people around all night.

    • February 8th 2018 @ 11:02am
      The Sheriff said | February 8th 2018 @ 11:02am | ! Report

      Innocent until proven guilty….especially in Queensland.
      Let’s hope Hunt is back in action asap

      • February 8th 2018 @ 11:24am
        Dontcallmeshirley said | February 8th 2018 @ 11:24am | ! Report

        On its own the charge of failing to show up for fingerprinting should be enough to ditch him. Even if not quilty of carrying the drugs he should still comply with police directions under the circumstances.

        • February 8th 2018 @ 11:34am
          Fionn said | February 8th 2018 @ 11:34am | ! Report

          Does’t change the fact that the entire basis of the Australian—and Western—legal system is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

          If the charge is dropped by the police then he is presumed innocent.

          • Roar Guru

            February 8th 2018 @ 12:52pm
            Fox Saker said | February 8th 2018 @ 12:52pm | ! Report

            So lack of evidence TWAS means he I totally innocent does it?

            And no Fionn, all that means is they don’t have enough evidence to say they can definitely get a conviction in court which doesn’t by definition mean he is innocent – just probably unable to be convicted. And it certainly doesn’t mean the police actually believe anyone is innocent and never has.

            It may is cases where counter evidence shows that someone is innocent in a murder case or say, but this is just a “lack of evidence to convict” which is very different. The police aren’t saying they charged the wrong guy only that they don’t believe they will get a conviction based upon the evidence they have.

            To be “innocent” you need a jury or judge to decide that after you have been charged. Dropping charges does not by definition mean dropping any notion that someone is guilty.

            The police and prosecution merely decide if they have the evidence to use tax payers money to get a conviction. All reports stated a bag was ditched on the ground – clever – because this means it is hard to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that those being searched own the substance unless the police see them doing it. An old trick but that is all the doubt you need to be cast. But does that suddenly mean someone is innocent? Yeah right with his track record

            His high priced lawyers with a little help from the ARU will see him squeeze his way out of this as well.

            How remarkable that this is now twice that high profile player KMH has managed to escape a recorded conviction becuse it may interfere with his travel for rugby or in this case, any conviction for cocaine use. Man what a lucky guy huh?

            Bet those poor sods at the bottom of pay scale with no fame and fortune behind them, nor the money for high priced lawyers got just as lucky twice with their drug convictions to huh?

            He should not be playing for the Reds and certainly not the Wallabies – enough is enough. I hope Brad Thorn tells him he is not wanted. But I suspect the all forgiving Cheika, may have some input into his career from here on in, together with the ARU.

            So I suspect you will get your wish TWAS – he will play again at the top level no doubt.

            • February 8th 2018 @ 4:35pm
              JP said | February 8th 2018 @ 4:35pm | ! Report

              Like Julian Savea did.I agree.

            • February 8th 2018 @ 9:36pm
              Dave_S said | February 8th 2018 @ 9:36pm | ! Report

              Fox you talk nonsense.

              “To be “innocent” you need a jury or judge to decide that after you have been charged.”

              No such thing. Clearly you know stuff all about the law.

              You ARE innocent until proved otherwise.

              Fortunately the judicial system has moved beyond admitting a persons past record as proof of their present guilt.

              And “high priced lawyers” are sadly necessary these days to ensure decent legal representation against shoddy policing practices.

              You have proof he is guilty? No. Neither do the police, apparently.

              They don’t weigh the cost of proving someone guilty of a minor carrying charge when deciding whether to proceed. It cost very little.

              They apparently never had the evidence and should never have even charged him by the sounds of it.

              Did your cop mate tell you how often cops completely stuff up investigations? You’d be surprised and appalled to know the truth in that regard.

              • Roar Guru

                February 8th 2018 @ 10:47pm
                Train Without A Station said | February 8th 2018 @ 10:47pm | ! Report

                Basically, what he said.

                And I said the Reds should have looked to terminate Hunt’s contract in 2015 to set strong standards actually.

                So it’s not my wish that he plays again.

                It’s my wish that the small minded peanut gallery learn to understand the law and that solely being charged with a crime, without anything further means nothing.

              • February 9th 2018 @ 6:45am
                Fionn said | February 9th 2018 @ 6:45am | ! Report

                I wouldn’t want to live in a society like that Fox is describing.

              • Roar Guru

                February 9th 2018 @ 11:27am
                Fox Saker said | February 9th 2018 @ 11:27am | ! Report

                Just the kind of response I expected DaveS and I know the law well enough believe me on that score.

                Yes cops can stuff up investigations and they can be corrupt as well as we all know. Some police regrettably are not saints by any stretch of the imagination. Juries can also be prejudicial in the defendants favour or against them for social/political reasons as we have seen on occasion both here and overseas in the history of our legal systems.

                However the “Innocent until proven guilty” is the letter of the governance of the law but has never meant that people never escape justice through lack of evidence and anyone who knows anything about the history of criminal justice will tell you that.

                Yes innocent because they haven’t been found guilty in a court of law or they get off on a technicality as can happen rendering vital evidence inadmissible – so under the terms of legal governance they are innocent but the reality is they may be guilty as hell but the case cannot be proven and to argue otherwise is naive and ignorant of how the legal system works.

                So under the governance of the law if Hunts charges are dropped he is innocent yes. And you show you own ignorance of the money policy – in major legal cases that can take years the cost is significant to taxpayers and in such cases prosecutions are rarely moved upon unless they have a very good chance of winning or if a conviction sends a message to others.

                And no I would not be surprised and appalled at all on you last sentence as I have experienced it first hand at a high level several years ago in Sydney and yeah it stinks but that does not mean every police investigation is botched or crooked either.

                But we have different points of view and that is fine with me – not such a bad thing.

                As Byron said ” When two side argue strongly, the truth always lies somewhere in the middle unless one side is lying or being deceived by others”

                To you TWAS, I thought you wished Hunt to play for the Reds again, so on that score my apologises.

              • Roar Guru

                February 9th 2018 @ 12:15pm
                Train Without A Station said | February 9th 2018 @ 12:15pm | ! Report

                But you entirely miss the point, that you are considered innocent, because without being a witness to the crime, nobody has any idea of what happened, other than what the police charges claim.

                And as you have no knowledge of what actually occurred here the only facts you know are that Hunt was charged, and due to insufficient evidence, those charges were dropped, giving you no reason to believe any guilt.

              • February 9th 2018 @ 12:30pm
                Fionn said | February 9th 2018 @ 12:30pm | ! Report

                … If the charges are indeed dropped then authorities did not even have enough evidence to take the case to a trial, let alone get a conviction, and yet in your eyes the onus is still on Hunt to prove he is innocent?

                How is Hunt supposed to do that if the case is not even brought to trial?

                Thankfully we live in an Enlightened world where someone needs to be convicted of a crime before they are a criminal, despite what you say.

              • Roar Guru

                February 9th 2018 @ 1:18pm
                Train Without A Station said | February 9th 2018 @ 1:18pm | ! Report

                Pls stop using facts

            • February 8th 2018 @ 11:49pm
              Fionn said | February 8th 2018 @ 11:49pm | ! Report

              Sorry, Fox, but the basis of our legal system is that of innocence until proven guilty, as Dave has said.

              He hasn’t been proven guilty and therefore is presumed innocent.

              No amount of arguing can change this fact.

            • February 9th 2018 @ 1:40am
              elvis said | February 9th 2018 @ 1:40am | ! Report

              Fox, I don’t think you understand the concept of the legal system. It’s in place to stop people like you conducting witch hunts and finding people guilty because you “just think they are” or “heard something”.
              I hope you never find yourself on the wrong end of trumped up charges.

            • February 9th 2018 @ 8:12am
              Fionn said | February 9th 2018 @ 8:12am | ! Report

              Also, interesting how you slyly tried to change the burden of proof by saying ‘it is hard to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt’.

              You don’t have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, just beyond reasonable doubt.

              Also, Thorn can cut whoever he likes. The ARU and Cheika don’t control Thorn’s team, so don’t try and blame the ‘Aussies’ while casting Thorn as not being responsible. As it is, I don’t see how he can be cut for this given he wasn’t found guilty and is therefore presumed innocent.

              I don’t want to live in this society that you envision in which people are judged, condemned and punished based on mere allegations alone, rather than through crimes being proved through a court of law.

              • February 9th 2018 @ 9:41pm
                scottd said | February 9th 2018 @ 9:41pm | ! Report

                Actually, I can see how he could be cut for this given it is the second time he has been involved in something that has brought negative publicity to his franchise.

                Hard to know if he will be though. Probably more likely a suspension but if Thorn is trying to change the culture he may take a harder line.

              • February 9th 2018 @ 9:43pm
                Fionn said | February 9th 2018 @ 9:43pm | ! Report

                Scott, how will he have violated his contract if the charges are dropped though?

                The whole point of innocence until proven guilty is that mere allegations can be brought against anyone. They have to be proven first.

                Do you think his contract would be written in such a way that mere allegations can have him removed?

              • February 9th 2018 @ 10:36pm
                Train Without A Station said | February 9th 2018 @ 10:36pm | ! Report

                Fionn I could be wrong but I think it may be the case that they possibly can, given the right circumstances, under bringing the game into disrepute or something similar.

              • February 10th 2018 @ 4:39pm
                Fionn said | February 10th 2018 @ 4:39pm | ! Report

                I’m surprised to hear that as I feel it might set a bad precedent if allegations alone can lead to a loss of a career.

                That being said, I don’t know much about the nuances of professional rugby contracts, so you guys probably know more than I do.

          • February 8th 2018 @ 5:25pm
            Highlander said | February 8th 2018 @ 5:25pm | ! Report

            The Scots have a verdict called Not Proven.

            So we think your guilty but cant prove it

            • Roar Guru

              February 8th 2018 @ 10:51pm
              Train Without A Station said | February 8th 2018 @ 10:51pm | ! Report

              Actually no.

              We are absolutely certain you are not guilty is where not guilty is used.

              Traditionally, not guilty did not exist so a criminal case had 2 possible outcomes. proven, or not proven the same as guilty, or not guilty.

              Not guilty was brought in to essentially place additional emphasis around not proven.

              The context you’ve used is almost the opposite of how it is applied.

            • February 8th 2018 @ 11:50pm
              Fionn said | February 8th 2018 @ 11:50pm | ! Report

              Interesting. I didn’t know that.

              But I prefer our way, and the way of the English where it is just prove me guilty or I am innocent.

        • February 8th 2018 @ 12:40pm
          andrew murray said | February 8th 2018 @ 12:40pm | ! Report

          that’s a big statement Shirley

        • February 8th 2018 @ 1:10pm
          Cynical Play said | February 8th 2018 @ 1:10pm | ! Report

          On that ‘logic’ Higgers should be out for abusing the cops in their station when he was blind, George should be out for having one too many in Japan… Quade should be out for whatever he did… (wait he is out)

          FFS… go to church if it helps you, but let the rest of us live our flawed lives

          • February 8th 2018 @ 8:53pm
            Ken Catchpole's Other Leg said | February 8th 2018 @ 8:53pm | ! Report

            Cynical I am very disturbed. I am finding myself in agreement with you, and it is an entirely novel feeling.

            • February 9th 2018 @ 6:44am
              Fionn said | February 9th 2018 @ 6:44am | ! Report

              I’m the same. I think I agree with most things Cynical Play says that are non rugby related, and nothing that is.

          • February 9th 2018 @ 2:16am
            scottd said | February 9th 2018 @ 2:16am | ! Report

            actually, I thought George was out?

      • February 8th 2018 @ 7:35pm
        scottd said | February 8th 2018 @ 7:35pm | ! Report

        Only one charge has been reported as dropped, the others are still current.

    • February 8th 2018 @ 11:02am
      jameswm said | February 8th 2018 @ 11:02am | ! Report

      Kerevi shows class…

      • February 8th 2018 @ 4:36pm
        MARTO said | February 8th 2018 @ 4:36pm | ! Report

        ^ It`s a pity Chuckles Cheika can`t see it through his blue tinted sunglasses………..

      • February 8th 2018 @ 4:50pm
        Cuw said | February 8th 2018 @ 4:50pm | ! Report

        yessss a lot of auzy peeps can learn from him , how to answer a pointed question from someone looking for an angle .

        especially starting from the national coach.

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