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Joined December 2017
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Oh and the playoffs! Wasps and Bath could meet again in the playoffs! Jesus Christ the NH has so many dumb games that I can’t even remember them all.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
I think that you are being disingenuous.
The most historically followed annual rugby competition is the 6 Nations. All the SH did is copy it. They play home and away each year in the Rugby Championship because of time zones. NZ and SA don’t play each other more often than Wasps and Bath. They probably actually play each other less with English club sides maybe meeting even more times in the cups.
It’s hard to critique the NZ set-up when it creates the best rugby players in the world. Rugby players that the NH would rather hire directly than develop themselves. It’s also not odd that an organization like the NZRU would focus on the national team because it is their best, most accessible product.
The only thing that the European club game has that SH does not is content – lots and lots of games. That yes, people can follow every week of the year. I am personally not sure that it makes for a better rugby supporting experience, but yes, it does (and should) create more revenue.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
Do you want the best players to play with great frenquncy?
In the NFL, the Thursday night games are thoroughly condemned because the players do not have enough recovery time from Sunday. The games are thought to be of a very low quality and have an affect of the standings.
IDK, but rugby is more aerobic than the NFL and each individual player is involved in more plays. I doubt that playing mid-week would allow for the best players to play every game.
In the NFL, the best Quarterbacks, defensive backs, offensive linemen and receivers must play every game. They can’t be subbed out and not have a HUGE affect on a team’s performance. Soccer can get away with resting players because while the best players are clearly the best the game play is more spread through the team and therefore their absences have less of an affect. I would think that rugby is someplace in the middle. I can’t see how mid-week games would make the competitions better.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
FYI – I am American. Never been to SA, AUS or NZ but will be attending my first professional rugby match in Tokyo in April. Sunwolves vs Waratahs.
I have been a Bok fan since the 2007 World Cup but have only started following more closely in the past year.
I would bet that the Currie Cup and the NPC would be in the same shape today without Super Rugby, just that all the current Super Rugby players would be in Europe. They were amateur competitions. Amateur competions can be engaging and successful – Olympics, American College Football, Canadian Junior Hockey – but those comps were never going to keep top class professional sportman in their respective countries.
NZ is not large enough for a professional league in an international sport. In theory Super Rugby with just NZ and Aus could work but rugby is not popular enough in Aus (for audience or to supply players) so South Africa was brought in.
I greatly respect that NZ keeps their players. They developed them! They should reep the rewards when they are full grown, top functioning sportsmen and not let foreign people grab all the revenue that they create. I wish that SA had the same attitude.
I think that the time zone issue is overstated by Aussies. It is only 2 games that Aus and NZ teams will play in an awkward time zone. All of the others will be in NZ, Aus or Japan. NZ knows that their time zone is crappy and don’t complain.
Sure, it makes following ALL games pretty hard but only journalists watch all games in any sport anywatly. Very few fans do. And again, it’s only two or three games a week, out of six or seven, that are played in SA or Arg.
And byes are great! Rugby is a physical game and players get physically depleted week-in and week-out. The euro leagues should have more byes. They are way better than perpetually injured players.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
Thank you.
But I would think that if the newly renovated grounds are full of fans paying high prices then the clubs should be able to break even. Debt and operating costs should be paid by the business.
Lots of clubs don’t want the salary cap to go up. Worcester has shrunk it’s player budget because they have no money. Northampton complains about the high salary cap in the media. They also suck now. I am not necessarily a fan of salary caps in general but they do help take risk out of the business for owners.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
The costs represent the quality of the product. In the long term the revenues must match the costs for the product to maintain it’s quality.
If investors, even ones that are emotionallly driven rugby fans, thought that the priemiership had a reasonable shot at growing revenues then maybe Worcester would have a buyer by now.
I understand that Exeter makes money but the fact that the most isolated club, in the smallest catchment area with the least entertainment competition is the money maker is an odd fact for me.
Super Rugby also has also continuously grown its revenue.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
Well, I wouldn’t call Super Rugby being canned in 2020 as “likely”. But it is clear that the club game has not found equilibrium. I think that the 11 or 12 test match season is working well. Some country’s fans might have issues with who they play but it is a good amount of games for all. A continuous test season is good for the SH regardless of if Super Rugby has the calendar it does or not.
The question now is how the next tier works. Super Rugby is at a low ebb but first South Africa, then Argentina and now Japan have always needed someone to play. It’s not a new problem that these countries are far from each and not located on the European continent. Yes, it is more complicated but doing away with Super Rugby will not shift the plates and bring these countries closer together. It will always be an issue.
I think that it is more “likely” that the premiership will have fewer teams in 2020 than Super Rugby no longer exists.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
It is hard to judge France because of the language difference but it is pretty clear that international tests have higher broadcast ratings and drive greater fan engagement on social media than the club game. This includes England and the Celtic nations. European champions cup finals do not sell out. I am sure that there are fans that love the clubs more than they support more their national teams, but there are not enough of them to make English clubs profitable.
France also has the issue of having to play 6 nations tests in Paris while the rugby heartland is in the south.
What is interesting economically is that private investors can absorb losses in the short but still must do whatever it takes to make money in the medium term aka England club owners. While nonprofit NGOs must break even every year in the short term but can focus on the long term mission of the social activity aka World Rugby and the NZRU.
The Premiership needs to grow its revenue and soon. Worcester, London Irish and now Northampton cannot compete.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
Test rugby doesn’t create enough content to play the players. That is why Super Rugby was created. Content to sell broadcasters that can be used to pay players.
I like Super Rugby and think that it has basically worked.
In Europe, wealthy men are speculating on rugby and trying to fit it into the association football model of constant games all the time, zillions of different comps going on at once. It is not working. They are losing money. Which has created a Cold War over the players that create the product.
Everyone likes test rugby the most, except the wealth speculators that lose money paying the players the highest salaries.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
A strong Southern Hemesphere is what gives rugby a chance at being a global game. If rugby becomes a sport that is only played in southern France and the British isles it has no future. Nobody else will care.
It's time for an international window across all rugby leagues
@Bakkies
Case is point is Leinster ans Scarlets playing during the 6 nations. That effects the integrity of the Pro 14 way more than the Super Rugby conference set-up.
The annual Rugby Christmas wish list
The Aviva Premiership’s commercial and tv deals do not “generate enough revenue to pay for the competition’s exorbitant costs.”
I personally like how Super Rugby and test rugby are closely linked. Test Rugby is the absolute best rugby product and I like how the SH has a continuous test rugby season and a continuous club rugby season.
I can’t follow the stop-start domestic / european / international schedule that is NH rugby and I think that it is bad for the integrity of each of the competitions. It is not better than what SANZAR has done with the test schedule, Rugby Championship and Super Rugby.
The annual Rugby Christmas wish list
All Aviva Premiership teams lose money except one.
The NZRU (which owns controlling interests in 5 Super Rugby franchises and has many of the worlds’ best players under contract) breaks even. The Jaguares are profitable. Yes, SA has organizational and currency issues and Aus has organizational and competitive product issues but Super Rugby has a lot of assets. Like geographic reach and locations in major global cities with significant upside. SARU would be really stupid to trade it for the Pro14.
The annual Rugby Christmas wish list
Yep. Your best point is about how much it costs NZRU to develop players. Everyone wants RU to invest in the grassroots and SARU to bring rugby to the townships.
But they don’t have the incentives. The players just leave to get paid by a fat cat that isn’t even trying to make money. It’s a total joke.
When the NZ and SA player tap starts to run dry good night rugby.
Why France is right to be concerned about rugby imports