Hi Matt, thank you. These are all double headers so all 4 teams are already playing at Suncorp on 18 September, meaning there are no moving parts other than which opposition the teams prepare for.
Fixtures are:
NZ play Argentina
SA play Australia

All I am saying is on the 18 Sept at Suncorp switch it up. So:
Australia play Argentina
SA play NZ

It’s a really simple fix and easily done.

I hear all your points.
Schedule the Bok vs All Black 100th Test in the 100th year, the week prior on 18 September at Suncorp. IE switch it up.
That’s all.

I understand your point. But my gripe is not that it’s hosted in Queensland in front of crowds. That’s wonderful and it means I can attend (all) games. What I am alluding to is the scheduling which I haven’t explicitly made reference to which others have. If hosted here in Queensland (which is fine under these pandemic circumstances), then I just think that it should have scheduled for the week prior, as the main event at Suncorp, to give it the respect it deserves. That’s all. And that’s not too much to ask surely?

“ playing on a goat track” not at all Matt. Nelspruit also has a brand new state of the art stadium purpose built for the 2010 Soccer World Cup. I drew a comparison Tom between the two for a reason.

“ Rugby league has first rights to Suncorp” – again with all respect to the many Queenslanders who love rugby league, therein lies the problem of hosting this in Australia, rather than in SA or NZ, or even England for that matter who would prioritise it. South Africa would move mountains and reschedule domestic soccer matches (which likely has more fans by the millions than the NRL) to other stadiums to make this happen. You see worldwide the NRL is insignificant in comparison to the mighty Springboks and All Blacks brands and legacy. Outside the other rugby league heartlands/countries, not too know about the NRL tournament outside of Australia.
Whereas the Springboks and All Blacks brand transcends nations, and reaches every rugby playing country/club/school in every continent and numerous countries the world over. Whether they will all tune in to watch… probably not.
The point I’m making is it should be given the honour and respect it deserves. That’s all.

Matt, surely it is self explanatory? I have absolutely nothing against Townsville at all, or that their stadium has a 25,000 capacity, which is only one aspect I made reference to.
If this milestone event between the two greatest rugby nations in history is not going to be held in either country (SA or NZ), then surely, at the very least RA/Queensland/SANZAAR can give this event its due honour and host it as the main event at the biggest/best venue available?

It’s a significant event to tens if not a couple hundred million people around world, and in particular both countries fans and players, and therefore deserving of due honour and respect.

Not simply the warmup game in city that’s not know for rugby union with a stadium that can only seat 25,000 which may not even sellout (because it’s Townsville, a much smaller population than SE Qld and not traditionally big rugby union fans). Suncorp would sellout fast with the amount of Saffas and Kiwis who live in SE Qld. Twickenham, which seats 82,000 would sellout in hours, likewise with Soccer City or Ellis Park (if fans were allowed). The point is, if it’s not to be hosted in SA or NZ, which in itself is a massive letdown, then at the very minimum give it the respect it is due.

South Africa, of course would prefer to host it at home, there are no quarantine requirements entering SA. But I guess the powers decided against this.

Surely you can see that hosting this milestone event in Townsville is a bit of a slap in the face to both NZ and SA? That’s nothing against Townsville whatsoever, but has more to do with the legacy of the Boks and All Blacks. It would be akin to hosting this game in Nelspruit, South Africa (actually worse because Nelspruit is in SA, and nothing against Nelspruit either, beautiful scenery in that part of the world).

I hope my explanations are clear. Thank you

The very first game between these two teams in 1921 was played in Dunedin…
Therefore, it was fitting that it was scheduled for Dunedin again, for history’s sake. The 2nd Test was scheduled for Eden Park.
But thank you for asking the question, because now you now why. 😊

I’m happy it’s going ahead in Queensland, I can attend 🙂

But seriously, who are the plonkers that think it’s a good idea to stage the 100th game in the Centenary year (yes the first Test was in 1921) between the mighty Springboks and All Blacks, in a 25,000 seater stadium in Townsville?
I mean, I give up… 😔

Hi SB,

Thank you for the reply. I agree re Rassie, I was disappointed he did that and I cringed watching some of it. I get what he was trying to do, but in his own moment (s) of frustration and passion, he took it too far. But he is one man only. He is not the Springboks, or the fans. He is just one (very influential) man. He is a very good coach though.
I don’t expect everyone to like or support the Boks. But all can ask for is objectivity. That’s all 🙂

Thanks Ken, and yes you are right my writing came across that I was lumping everyone (Aussies and Kiwis) into the same boat. In my head I was referring to the anti-SA brigade on here. Apologies about that. See my comment to Geoff below.

It was fantastic that the series could go ahead and I also want the waterways/staff/ physio etc policy sorted out properly. I think Rassie and the Boks took the NH teams lead on this one and have ran with it. It was evident in the 6 Nations. The “if you’re doing it then so will we and we will take full advantage of it too”.

Tough series. Whichever team lost it was a bitter pill to swallow. I’m just happy it wasn’t the Boks 🙂

Hi Geoff,
Fair enough I shouldn’t say “you guys” or written “Aussis and Kiwis” as if to lump everyone into the same boat, of which I am an Aussie too. In my head I was referring to the anti-SA brigade here on the Roar, of which there are many, comprised of both Aussies and Kiwis. But of course this is not everyone. People are individuals with their own minds and opinions.
And I know your views are quite balanced. But many of the commenters here are not.
I am disappointed by what Rassie did too, at times I cringed watching his video. But Rassie is Rassie. In his first year of coaching he got into trouble from SARU and was fined for sitting on the roof of the Bloemfontein stadium, making gestures with signs to give signals/instructions to his Cheetahs players on the field. He also put a lighter player into the line out, which two players picked him and ran to the try line with him, and technically those two forwards carrying the other player couldn’t be tackled….in the first game the try was awarded, until SARU stepped in to stop it.
My point is Rassie is Rassie. He is always trying new things and pushing the boundaries, but he needs to be judged on his own. He is a brilliant coach, but just gets a bit out of line at times and needs to know where the boundaries are, because he wants to push them.
We’ll chat about the “laager” mentality of South Africans another time. Maybe Harry can write a piece about it ???? This was exemplified again recently during the riots/ lootings in Durban and KZN at large, where people (of all races) in each communities took action, went into Rambo mode and closed the roads and patrolled to keep their towns/ businesses/ families safe … I’m not kidding. The stories I have heard from friends are surreal. There was the constant sound of gunfire for 4 days and nights. It was crazy
The laager mentality – derived originally when the boers/ migrating Afrikaners would form a circle of ox wagons to keep safe from wild animals or people looking to attack.

The first time I came on to the Roar was during the 2009 Lions series.

Some things never change. The rhetoric of the comments was the same then as it is today, just nitpicking on different issues but spreading the same old spurious ideas about the Boks, repeated by Spiro at the time. Although I must say, the type of game that the Boks play has managed to stay as a bone of contention still 12 years later.

You all can fool yourselves into believing that the Boks are the problem, or that the Boks have a supposedly “win at all costs” attitude. 12 years ago was just the same, the voices were so loud after a Lions win and a 3-0 ABs clean sweep that they changed the rules for 2010! If you turn it around, was there not a “win at all costs” mantra that went so far that the rules were changed?! To make sure those South Africans don’t win….

Come on guys. Be better.

The Boks won an excellent nail-biting, brutal series of Test rugby, just like in 2009. I for one loved the rugby played and wasn’t bored in the slightest as the game of chess unfolded in front of my eyes. And Morne… what a beauty!

On the Physio, get her off the field!! What is she doing there? She should not be that close to the action. That’s ridiculous and dangerous for her and I’m sure the Bok players would agree too. But don’t use her as an example to enforce these spurious ideas that the Boks have a “win at all costs” attitude or don’t play fairly.
Come on. Be better. You know you can be. I welcome WR to clear this up.
The Lions had “water boys” and Neil Jenkins running on to the field at every opportunity too, but there’s been dead silence about them doing it. I don’t like any of it, but be balanced.

I hope rugby wins and Boks carry the same form into the RC as they did in 2009.
Kiwis and my fellow Australians won’t like it (yes I am Australian, so to is my family and my heritage is Australian going back generations, and I am South African spending years growing up there which means I have a unique set of eyes to see things from both perspectives for what they are).
But when have Aussies and Kiwis ever liked SA being number 1? Never have you liked it. You guys prefer Heyneke Meyer, come close but subordinate to Steve Hansen. Rassie and PDivvy don’t fly that way. You can’t stand it, but neither do they care. You will (always) find things to criticise, but they will march on.

After all of this negativity towards the Boks, I really hope that they win the RC. Also there’s the 100th Test at Eden Park between the ABs and Boks. It’ll be a HUGE game that’s for sure.

Nick, it may appear that I am attacking you and I apologise if I have upset you or of you’ve felt it is personal. I do actually really like you and your articles, your analysis is often very good.
I believe that I am being sincere even if you disagree (I.E. not disingenuous). The other day you mentioned that you would not have written your previous article had Rassie not done his video which is fair enough. However, please see it from my side that the point you made exemplified the point I was making, that I’m merely point out that two wrongs don’t make a right. That’s all mate 🙂
I actually welcome the analysis and want to see transgressions from the opponents viewpoint. I guess the thing that probably annoyed me a bit was the insinuation that it skewed BOK into favouring the Boks (questioning his integrity), which I don’t think happened in the same way that I don’t think Berry favoured the Lions.
So in my view, there is little difference between yours and Rassie’s assessment (RE – Boks; you – Lions), as you point out that you gave the Lions perspective which is perfectly fine (had the insinuations been left out). That’s all mate. And of course the major difference is you are an analyst and journalist (noted not an ‘ex-analyst’ which somebody else had alluded to in your previous piece and I incorrectly repeated, apologies), and Rassie is the SA Director of rugby.

Cognitive dissonance – I wasn’t referring to you so I apologise if you took it this way, but rather to many of the Roarers comments. An example of cognitive dissonance is “explaining things away”, which PeterK said some Bok supporters were doing, yet the blinkers were on that many roarers are doing the same thing. That’s all.

Take care. Sorry if I have offended you and I look forward to your future pieces. 🙂

Great article Harry. It sums up pretty much what I feel too.
Rassie was silly and wrong, and I cringed a bit watching it. He could have put his grievances across far more succinctly through a different channel.
Still he is a very fine coach.

Boks by 7-10 points, although I’d love another 32-12.

Thank you Danny. I completely agree.
I tried to point this out on Nick’s article 2 days ago but was shouted out by so many people. The cognitive dissonance is at dizzying heights here on the Roar.

In my view, two wrongs do not make a right (or 700 comments supporting the wrongs). It’s an integrity issue. Hypocrisy exemplified at its best.

I am saying both are wrong (not equating them).
You are defending one and attacking the other.

I give up too then if you cannot see your hypocrisy and that I am keeping one consistent line of thought/ judgement for both. 😂

Have a lovely day mate 👍 I’m just looking forward to the rugby again and hope all of this nonsense stops asap. Test 3, series decider on Saturday 😊

Iso Late…. clearly you’re refusing to hear what I’m actually saying, or intentionally misinterpreting it.
And when have I defended RE?
I am saying both Rassie and Nick are wrong.
On the flip side, you are defending Nick and having heavy “go’s” at not only Rassie but SARU too (reference to Harry’s comments).

Harty of course Nick can air his opinion and do the flip side of Rassie’s video as a journalist. If that’s all it was then no problem, leave it at that. But I guess it’s this comment that really bugs me “Ben O’Keefe, unwittingly followed Rassie’s instruction manual to the letter.” This completely attacks O’Keefe’s integrity, insinuating that he was completely biased, going further that what RE insinuated about Berry and has rightly been criticised.
And “Rassie won the battle, he must not win the war”. What war? That SA must not win the Test series because one (influential) man made a video? A bit harsh on everyone else…. If it’s war on getting officiating to the highest standards then surely Rassie (and Nick) should win the war because that benefits everyone?

A straightforward counter analysis from a Lions perspective would have been welcomed, but then leave out all the other insinuations. I think this is what Nick was trying to do.

I get that the major difference is RE is the SA director of rugby and Nick is an analyst and journalist, but it’s still the attitude, the questioning integrity and insinuations about SA rugby which is why I’m saying both RE and Nick are wrong.

Luckily some SA fans are disappointed in both. Yet you are only criticising one.

An example of cognitive dissonance is “explaining things away” which is what has happened in the comments section of this article. How can two wrongs make a right? Surely it’s about integrity?

Iso Late – I see the difference, Rassie is Director of Rugby, and Nick is an ex-analyst and journalist.
But how can you not see the integrity difference? Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s integrity and hypocrisy that I’m getting at here.

If Rassie had not done his video, and Nick wrote this article, would it even be allowed to be published on the Roar?

Miz – I have no problem with presenting “the other side of the coin” to the side Rassie focused on. If it was “here’s the other side . … yada yada yada…” No worries. Show how the Boks were offsides, entered rucks from the side etc and where Berry may have e got it wrong from the Lions perspective.

If that’s all it was, fine. But don’t bash Rassie and say how he must be punished, and then do exactly the same thing, including questioning the integrity of the team and the referee.

That’s all I’m saying. And I cringed watching Rassie and was disappointed he did that. But in many ways Nick’s attacks in this piece are even harsher.

Ha ha. No. All I am saying is Nick is not a neutral, and very much has a bias towards the Lions which is absolutely fine. That’s normal. He’s been involved in Lions tours previously.

But all I’m saying is have the integrity to not lambast one person for their actions, then in the next breath do the same thing (with even harsher criticism than RE) and pretend you’re justified.

What’s more powerful, media or
a biased head coach? The media were very influential before Test 1.

When have I defended Rassie? Nonsense.
Both are wrong.

I am pointing out the double standards of criticising RE and then doing exactly the same thing.

That’s all.

Nick you’ve been on a Lions tour and provided analysis to coaches from Home Union teams.

At least have the gonads to either:
– Criticise Rassie’s actions, say he deserves the WR hearing and leave it at that. Don’t go on and insinuate that O’Keefe was biased towards the Boks (questioning his integrity after a tough week), and attack the Bok teams integrity too.
or
– Don’t criticise Rassie, say he can have his opinion and go on and write yours as you did in this article to provide a counter perspective, perhaps focusing specifically on Test 2 which was Rassie’s focus.

Thank you

From Nick’s profile here on the Roar:
“Nick Bishop has worked as a rugby analyst and advisor to Graham Henry (1999-2003), Mike Ruddock (2004-2005) and most recently Stuart Lancaster (2011-2015). He also worked on the 2001 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia …….
He is currently writing articles for The Roar and The Rugby Site, and working as a strategy consultant to Stuart Lancaster and the Leinster coaching staff for their European and Pro 14 playoff matches.”

Not exactly just a fan is he?
So you said it “ this type of overt criticism by anyone connected with a rugby union will result in bans and fines to the individual and the union.”

And wasn’t it the media who released that Gatland was furious over the TMO, which caused a whirlwind and some may say influenced Jonker in Test 1? This is a media outlet too?

My point is the double standards. Both are wrong.

Oh the irony….. you’ve just done exactly what Rassie did Nick.

You are both wrong in attacking the integrity of teams, the officials and the game.

If you provide any tactical advice to the Lions should a sanction be handed out to you too?