Marty, my dear friend. I can focus on the positives.
For example, despite not liking Lehmann, I still give credit for the WC victory.
The issue is that I do not see positives with Langer. I don’t view a drawn series as a positive. I don’t see a home win against SL as a positive.
That’s what you’re not understanding.

By the way, read today’s news. The clown has again embarrassed himself.

Keep defending him though Marty – he’s a winner. ????

As per my previous comment.

Thanks again for everything Jeffrey.

👍

Ok Jeff, sure. My mistake.

It’s all my fault for simply stating my opinion with some evidence on a forum that is built specifically for that. I don’t know what I was thinking. I clearly didn’t take into account your acute sensibilities.

My apologies.

All the best.

Dominic

But you don’t discuss anything Jeffrey …. or at least you haven’t with me. Rather, you threw a sarcastic, petty comment out, to which I rightfully responded.

Nothing of any meaning, substance or facts.

So, if that’s what you refer to as ‘constructive engagement’, then I guess that is where we disagree.

Thank you though for your free counsel… I’ll certainly file it in the appropriate place.

All the best.

Dominic

You’re right Marty, I don’t view a drawn series as a reason to shout the down the rooftops.

The conversation isn’t about Lehman, Marty but about Langer. However, if truth be told I was not a Lehmann fan either. In fact, I believe that his tenure led to how we ended up in South Africa. That said, Lehmann still managed a World Cup victory (now that is an achievement worth mentioning).

Back on topic though hey…. Langer. You’re right that Australia aren’t currently the force they once were, but then, no team is really – with the exception of India who are arguably at their strongest ever.
England are average, West Indies have declined obviously, Sri Lanka are a shambles, Pakistan are inconsistent as always, South Africa are the weakest they have been since readmission. New Zealand – yep they too have grown in stature but aren’t a dominant force. So I’m not really sure what you’re point is there…..

Australia should still be, with the players we have, the money that CA has (we are the second richest cricketing nation on the planet) and the fact it is our national sport (not AFL which is only played in Australia) performing a lot better than we are.

You keep just repeating the drawn Ashes series as some vindication of Langer’s position however you have not explained, given all of the facts, why he should be retained.

Facts are facts. Regardless of whether Lehman was also poor and regardless of the fact he’s had a drawn series in England – Australia has won a mere 12 of 28 series in the 3 years he’s been in charge. Not to mention all of the other little accomplishments he’s added to his CV (you know, like losing to Bangladesh for the first time and like Australia making their lowest ODI total ever)…

Why is he not under severe pressure.

My question, whether you like it or not, is both reasonable and valid. Based on an opinion ion, yes, but backed with solid evidence and stats.

The fact that you have yet to make any just argument with any facts as to why he shouldn’t be, definitely confirms where you are coming from Marty.

Shall we discuss Blinkers……. ??

Jeffrey, my dear fellow. I simply respond to others’ comments.

Remember this one: “ But we didn’t win the series Paul. It’s Un-Australian and demands torches and pitchforks.”

Hence the sarcasm comment.

“Rose coloured glasses” is a commonly used term referring to someone simply viewing things one way.

Seriously Jeffrey, you don’t even know you’re doing it do you?
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds my dear fellow.

If you don’t like receiving sarcastic comments, don’t make them.

Unlike you, I can take it and remain on topic and not get personal – such as trolling a persons history.

Like I said, please, come back when you have something meaningful to contribute.

Thank you Jeffrey.

Incorrect again Jeffrey…

I indeed ‘randomly’ log in to the site, when, like many many others, there is an article that takes my interest.

Read the article with which you are engaging why don’t you Jeffrey – I merely agree with the author.

Please, read all of my comments on this thread and you will discover the evidence with which I base my views.

Unlike yourself, I don’t troll through others’ account history and make things personal. However I guess when you don’t have any real argument or opinion, that is what you’re left with hey Jeffrey…

Perhaps take a hiatus from the site and come back when you wish to have an adult conversation and not just contribute throw away, sarcastic comments.

Cheers.

P.s
You’re right about the ranking systems though – they are a true mystery to every cricket fan on the planet, not just you Marty…..

Like I said Marty, happy to stand corrected on any earlier posts.

Seeing as though we’re throwing stats around, here’s some for you.

Since Langer took over in May 2018 following the S.A debacle, Australia has played 7 test series. We’ve won 3 of those – v SL at home (which let’s face it, doesn’t rate), Pakistan at home (not much better in terms of achievement) and NZ at home (better but they were missing Williamson after all). Amongst that are the two losses to India at home (one to their B side).

Australia has played 10 ODI series (not including the WC). We’ve won 5 and lost 5.

In that period Australia has also played in 11 T20 series (excluding the tri nations series v Zimbabwe and Pakistan). Of those 11, we’ve won 4.

So, in summary, since his tenure began, Australia have played in 28 series across all formats and of those 28, we’ve won 12.

In that time we’ve also seen the team secure their lowest ever ODI total, lost to Bangladesh for the first time in any format, lost at the Gabba for the first time in 3 decades and lose at home to India for the first time ever.

Not bad going really.

Did someone say blinkers???

I’ve not seen you mention anything about Langer being held accountable anywhere in this thread actually Marty but I’m happy to stand corrected.

In Langer’s tenure I’ve seen the side become progressively worse. I’ve seen them lose series that shouldn’t have been lost, particularly at home. I’ve seen their T20 team become so disjointed and lacking of any direction that it’s unfathomable. I’ve seen them lose to teams that have never beaten us and teams who haven’t beaten us in any format in over 25 years.

In amongst that I’ve seen them retain the Ashes in a drawn series in England – a good result however it does tend to gloss over the fact that the series should’ve been won.

We have just finished a two month tour where the team showed absolutely no improvement in their ability to play spin. In fact, their ability seemed to get progressively worse.

I’ve seen, read and heard first hand about issues the players have had with him and seemingly those issues continue.

I’ve heard his constant excuses and cliches – including the fact that India has a population of a billion people. This fact didn’t seem to bother New Zealand who not only beat them convincingly at home but then again in the WTC Final in England.

Yes, amongst that we’ve beaten Sri Lanka at home.

That is certainly the difference between you and I Marty, I fail to see many positives at all in his tenure. I do however see a plethora of failed, meaningful series and a side that has lost its identity.

I’m truly glad that you can see positives out of all of that – perhaps those blinkers are just bolted on hey…..

Dear oh dear….

Hysterical. Marty, please don’t try and spin any rhetoric about fair and reasonable analysis. You see, despite your rush to cast aside facts such as results, there is no getting away from the fact that sport is business. Business demands results. Hers a tip for you dear Marty – it’s a results driven game. So despite your poor attempts to simply dismiss any criticism of Langer as people simply disliking the guy, the facts are there in black and white.
Any coach who loses more than he wins – and Langer does (in fact, not only does he lose but he loses series and matches that are significant – such as the two Indian series) deserves to be put under some scrutiny.
Circumstances you say? Presumably referring to a few players missing these last few series. Well, as I’ve previously written, so did the West Indies.
So did Bangladesh. Who is ignoring circumstances now Marty?
How about losing to India, at home, when they were riddled with injury? What about those circumstances. Next please Marty.
Please, spare me your condescending garbage. At least have the gumption to look within before publicly venting your hypocrisy.
Dear oh dear.

Jeffrey, the thing about saying you’re objective, is that you actually have to be objective. You seem to view things through those rose coloured spectacles or worse, the blinkers. That is not being objective my dear fellow. It’s burying your head in the sand.
Cheers though.

Good one Jeff. Sarcasm, the lowest form of wit. Why am I not surprised, I mean, you are a Langer fan after all.

Would have been a lot more significant had we actually won the series hey Paul. Something which they should’ve done.

Marty, there’s one of us who isn’t providing fair and reasonable analysis and it isn’t me.

The facts are that this guy has bee in involved in one single achievement- a drawn series in which they should have won.
That is a fact.

He has lost two series at home to India (one to a B team with two tests we should have won). Fact.

He has lost 15 of the last 21 T20 games and the last five series. Fact.

He lost our first match at the Gabba in nearly 3 decades. Fact.

I’m asking the question, when does his job come under some form of scrutiny. It is a fair and reasonable question.

How about you take off the blinkers and provide some fair analysis.

I wondered if someone would bring that up, and I’m glad that you did Marty.
You mean the series that they should have won but somehow managed to lose the unloseable test. You mean that series.
It remains the only thing the guy can lay claim to but they did it in spite of him not because of him.

Of course it’s a measure.
It’s two home series lost in the last three seasons.
Last years was particularly vile given it was an Indian B team.
To quote JL himself – “give me a break”.

No you didn’t Paul. You stated
“The difference will be, Australia will get back the guys who are out and make the finals of the World Cup.”
No mention of luck.
Do yourself a favour and watch some cricket but take the blinkers off.

Australia are zero chance of a semi final at the World Cup!
Seriously Paul, do you watch cricket? Yes Australia had a few players out but so did both the West Indies (in particular) and Bangladesh.
Australia showed absolutely no improvement in the two months abroad – in fact as a group they got worse.
What will it take for the blowtorch to be applied to this bloke?

He’s also lost the last two home test series to India – a feat they had never accomplished prior to Langer’s appointment. He’s won absolutely nothing of any significance.

Players have always relied on some form of advice. Whilst coaches as we now know them may not have always been in existence, players had personal coaches, and or relied on advice from fellow players.

Players also take responsibility – through selection. They get dropped.
However, Langer’s job is to ‘coach’ the Australian Cricket Team. Unless your eyes are painted on, it’s pretty obvious that the team has been going in reverse at a rapid rate of knots. That means his position must be under scrutiny. Otherwise, why not just have a lucky dip for the next coach as you don’t seem to think it matters. It’s pretty simple, my friend.

I think you’ll find that player preparation is exactly the job of the coaches my friend.
Let’s actually look at what Langer has achieved:
•lost two series at home to India (something that had not happened before he took over)
•lost our first match at the GABBA in over 20 years
•lost our first series of any kind v West Indies in 25 years
•lost our first series ever, of any kind, be Bangladesh

The guy has achieved absolutely nothing. They managed to draw a series in England in spite of him and it is clear to anyone whose eyes aren’t painted on that the players don’t like him.

So let’s actually stop perpetuating the myth and let’s actually start asking CA for some accountability.

Interesting sentiments however I’m afraid I disagree. You seem to be blaming these results on public apathy? I’m not sure in which circles you’re moving however as a passionate cricket lover, many of my friends share the same passion and we are absolutely appalled by these results.

One thing I do agree with you on is the complete lack of respect shown by Cricket Australia – not only towards our opposition but also towards the cricket loving public. The fans are the ones who drive the game. It is that simple. Yet, we are fed garbage time and time again.

How is it that Justin Langer can remain in his position? It has surely become untenable. He has achieved absolutely nothing in his time at the helm and yet we are fed cliched rhetoric and are expected to swallow it. He has in recent past lost twice to India at home (something that has never happened until he took over), lost our first match at the GABBA in 20 odd years, lost our first series of any kind to the West Indies in 25 years, lost our first ever series to Bangladesh. The side has disintegrated terribly under his watch and it is clear to anyone whose eyes aren’t painted on that the players do not like him.

Don’t even get me started on the shambolic handling of sandpapergate. Anyone who believes that was an isolated incident clearly doesn’t understand the game. Cricket Australia though were quick to complete a smoke and mirrors investigation, hang three players out to dry and swiftly move on.

The issue my friend isn’t a lack of care from the cricketing public but rather sheer frustration at the way Cricket Australia operates – with complete autonomy and utter irreverence towards those who drive the game – the fans.

Simple answer Joe – he’ll be wearing the Blue and White in the trials and Rd 1!! Sorry champ.

Exactly where I threw it! You know, when I grew up… I guess that’s why I don’t need to carry on like a goose when I win.