Roar Guru
Joined August 2009
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So it’s a half-way arrangement, a little like Australia but one stage further.
Of course in France there’s more full-blown ownership which has created the richest and most successful national league, but a team that doesn’t win (although there are probably other reasons).
New Zealand’s more concentrated centralized model has yielded better results, though might have done with any model, and in other cases such as Wales has completely failed.
How are South African fans responding to watching such completely different teams?
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
Sure, but Super rugby isn’t very popular in New Zealand either.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
Thanks for that.
The big question I’d have is how much money they brought (very relevant to the dire financial situation in Australia and New Zealand).
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
If you’re happy with the result then all is well.
Wallabies in danger of losing Hanigan to ambitious French club just as forward enters his prime
True but look at the way the NRL can create domestic heros rather than international ones.
The problem is rugby’s inability to make someone playing domestically a hero.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
Yes, both are true.
Players moving overseas will always happen.
In this case though it’s unlikely.
Two separate ideas.
Wallabies in danger of losing Hanigan to ambitious French club just as forward enters his prime
Yes, and the All Black coaches knew he could do that and knew at a crucial moment it could be useful.
He and Nonu were also friends and had a much more mature and unjealous relationship than players in other countries competing for the same position and so this try is a fitting culmination to that.
Hansen's done Joey Manu no favours comparing him to SBW. He'll be more like RTS - and Foz is the reason why
‘The newest board member worked for the NRL.’
Maybe they all should have.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
Yes, although there are risks in it.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
That’s he excuse South Africa made but really they’d been considering this all along for time zone and financial reasons.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
‘Of greater importance was moving SA franchises towards private ownership’
Please develop.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
URC is so untribal that Welsh rugby is experiencing a similar catastrophe of popularity to Australia.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
‘Last year I warned that if we didn’t start performing at the Wallaby level, here in Townsville we may not survive until 2026 or 2027. This year down to four first grade teams from a recent seven.’
I’m sure you’re right but it also shows how too much of the game’s popularity has been built solely on the Wallabies’ performance instead of trying to make the game attractive at tier two level.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
This is always going to happen.
RA have done what’s reasonable by offering a top-up but shouldn’t break the bank for him.
Instead put the money saved into keeping three young players in similar positions.
Having said that I doubt he’ll actually go to a ProD2 team however much money is on offer.
Wallabies in danger of losing Hanigan to ambitious French club just as forward enters his prime
You’d need to be a washed up, alcoholic country and western singer to sign this one now.
'Definition of madness': Rugby reform must start with total cleanout of RA board - and this should happen next
It’s a good point. Basically you go to the broadcasters and ask them how much they’ll pay for a team in a particular location. They’ll know the number of games they’d get and the area covered, and they give you a price. Advertising is then factored in along with any private equity involved.
On that basis you decide how many and which ones are possible.
So you cost it in advance rather than just trying some and hoping they pay.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
This can all be priced in advance with broadcasters and what’s possible known. They may well pay more for certain areas than others.
Once advertising, as private equity if there is any and costs are factored in, and then the number can be known.
Australia probably has a lot of potential markets-the issue in the beginning is players.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
That sounds good.
You’d probably have to get everyone playing in the Champions Cup though to make more money and play simultaneously as in Europe to spread interest.
In terms of number of teams what’s possible can be discovered by getting it priced by broadcasters who will say how much they’ll pay for more teams.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
The bizarre thing is that Super AU and Super AO were domestic, but also linked to Super Rugby Trans-Tasman (although should have been played at the same time), so there was both domestic and international.
The domestic points could even be counted to Trans-Tasman as well.
In future it could be altered, reshaped, marketed in any way.
But at least it was something that began to bring a domestic tournament of some sort into the format. A first step.
Then it was thrown out…
In terms of the A-League the greatest irony of all is that it was John O’Neill who created a near perfect format for the wrong sport (and one which enabled it to severely damage rugby).
Call that Super rugby AU if need be. Make its point also go to the Trans-Tasman format if necessary.
But it needs to also have a separate table with a separate finals series. The winner can get an automatic Trans-Tasman finals series.
Also, not that much needs to be changed to do this.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
The amazing thing is that this has been known for twenty years.
The only change in that time has been the addition of the Rebels, pushing the season a little later, and adding teams in distant places as if they’ll save the day. None of this fundamentally addresses the problem though.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
If Ben is that massive and powerful it’s best to avoid doubting him again.
Also, perhaps Eddie Jones chose his RWC squad through matching on Tinder.
If Australia is looking for big men, let's not neglect the old and the fat
It’s worth remembering this is a moment of realisation.
Until the South African teams left, RA could try to convince everyone that Super Rugby was ‘global’, using the ‘global’ strengths of the game and therefore one day it would become popular. Becoming popular meant the Wallabies win, solving all woes.
Then the South African teams left and a domestic+international competition hybrid (Super AU+Super Trans-Tasman) was tried for the blink of an eye, and then inexplicably abandoned to keep the format ‘global’ (Australia AND New Zealand ONLY…).
Supposedly for years everyone had been hankering for a Trans-Tasman format by itself anyway.
So how would this work?
Not well it seems.
And therefore this is the moment of realisation. The format with South African teams didn’t actually work domestically, and today we realise the Trans-Tasman format alone doesn’t work domestically.
It doesn’t matter if rugby connoisseurs on the Roar enjoy it and personally I do, as it is by far the best club rugby tournament in the world (if you actually watch the Northern tournaments you’ll see why), because we can’t multiply ourselves into 20,000 fans in ten different locations in Australia and ten in New Zealand.
In addition to the Trans-Tasman tournament not working with fans, there is also less money from TV. (The season is so short it hardly makes any money anyway).
Perhaps it’s better though without the South African teams as they only masked the lack of popularity and decline of the game at home.
I wonder if this was all based on a mis-comparison with the NRL, thinking that as it looks like a ‘Trans-Tasman’ format and works for fans, a rugby ‘Trans-Tasman’ format would work as well?
If so this is absolutely false comparison. The NRL is an almost completely Australian tournament that satisfies the lust for the average fan for a domestic tournament, that Super rugby doesn’t give. It doesn’t provide a domestic tournament for New Zealand but that doesn’t matter as there’s only one team.
In Super Rugby though there is such an even balance in scale between the two countries that it can’t be a domestic competition for either.
So it can’t appeal as the NRL does.
The first stage of the solution was accidentally found in putting the domestic tournaments Super Rugby AU and Super Rugby AO INSIDE Super Rugby by separating Super Rugby Trans-Tasman thereby keeping both domestic and international, but there you are.
So, what next?
What’s the solution?
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
A better defence than ‘They very rarely offer any viable solution’ would be to describe the solution RA are offering themselves, as it’s their job to do it.
I wonder what kind of ‘solution’ cutting Super rugby AU three years ago was (and to what problem?).
If the problem is not enough money, and the season is too short meaning a lot of money is lost, what’s the solution?
If it’s admitted that there are problems, then the solutions should be described as ‘continue the same thing as now’ obviously won’t be a solution.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout
Karmichael Hunt tried at the same time at 23.
Those are the big two missed chances (in that they actually tried to come, rather than being chased, and were young).
Brumbies to welcome back Wallabies duo for 'Canes clash after week of soul-searching, Tahs to tweak side for Chiefs
I’ve watched plenty of northern club rugby in the end and don’t understand how it could be thought better to watch.
There are money and time zone advantages but otherwise not sure.
The other thing about South Africa is the game has so much support. There are plenty of areas that can get very good crowds and large playing numbers.
It seems to me it never needed to have its main competition playing with anyone else and would have been self-sufficient like France and England.
It could have also taken part in an international tournament for variety rather than ad the main thing.
'Easy to throw stones': RA chairman hits back at mudslingers' 'hypocrisy' after calls for AGM board cleanout