Soft ball interview with a bloke who’s been there for three years and is taking absolutely no accountability for what’s happened under his watch.

Four years ago, our U20’s squad pushed France all the way to the limit to lose the U20’s RWC by a point. This year, we’re hot trash and they’re favoured to be finalists, if not win. So don’t talk about 20 years of being trash without acknowledging that the squandering of young talent has also occurred under McLennan’s watch.

Twelve months ago, we were in a rough spot, suffering with injuries. But we had a pretty clear plan, and we were moving towards a RWC campaign. Instead, short term thinking came forward and said, “I can get a huge publicity splash by hiring a bloke who’s been sacked for a terrible last couple of years.” Swapping out coaches less than 12 months before a RWC isn’t long term thinking – it’s short term thinking.

As it stands, we have a bloke who’s been in charge for three years who’s decided that, after making the worst coaching decision we’ve seen in the last 30 years, he’ll blame the failures of the past 20 years and his key talking points for the failures.
If centralisation is so important, what’s Hamish been doing for three years?
If the failures of the past 20 years are so egregious (and I think we all agree it’s terrible), why should we think that RA will do better going forward than they have previously, when there’s no clear changes to administration structures (only player contracting)..?
How did we squander the talent that performed so well at the U20 RWC?

Christy, as the clear designated source of RA leaks this year, you’ve provided me nothing but frustration over the past year. Because it seems every week RA does something even more dumb than the previous week. And we tend to learn about it from you…

And the French. Danty’s no shrinking violet.

Come on Christy, open the other eye.
Tate stood over the ball a LOT at the breakdown. Way more than I’ve ever seen from him. White’s arrival didn’t change the pace of clearance at the breakdown.
Also, Tupou didn’t save White – White saved White. Who made the tackle that led to the loose Georgian pass which Tupou received, leading to Donaldson’s try..? I believe you’ll find it was the guy wearing #21.

Christy… So many horrible predictions. Things I’d never want to see happen. Or things that don’t make sense. Ireland and France lose to the Bokke and ABs in the pools? I don’t see any reason to predict either outcome. Certainly not recent form. And if France were to lose in the pool, why would they not expect a similar outcome to the previous times they lost in the pool – losing to the same side again in either the final or bronze match (which happened when they last hosted)? As in, why would they lose to NZ, and then beat everyone else? It’s not like France won’t have targeted that game.

Tate as captain, based on minutes? He needs to learn to pass left to right before that’s even a remote possibility. It’s job #1 for a scrumhalf. Lonergan is a better option as backup scrumhalf than McDermott (and Gordon).

It only makes sense to drag Jones in for the RWC if Rennie wants him. To undermine the current HC less than a year out from a RWC is lunacy.

Vunivalu is seriously overrated. What’s he actually achieved on a Rugby field..? He may – one day – turn out to be a great player, but for now, he’s spent more time injured than playing, and when playing, he’s far from an automatic choice. How anyone thinks we’ve a shortage on the wings when we’ve Koroibete, Nawaqanitawase, Wright, Kellaway, Petaia… It’s beyond me. I don’t know how anyone could argue for Vunivalu to have a spot in the RWC squad.

It’s more than time to get beyond the fixation on Leaguies, and former Rugby players who go to League. We shouldn’t be paying overs for them. For far too long, we’ve overrated their defence and talent. League is seriously boring (I can’t stand it – I’d watch paint drying over League), and being decent at league requires a much less broad skillset than Rugby. So there’s no reason to assume that being good at league will mean the player will be remotely useful in Rugby.

I had exactly the same thoughts… Big body, tackles well enough in the front line, runs great lines, generally fills gaps excellently. I was very surprised.

Off the back of your last article, Nick, it’s worth noting that the scoreline was 3-0 to NZ as the injured Foketi left the field…

Throwing Petaia out there at 13 with Ikitau moving in to 12 and Foley at 10 meant the Wallabies had absolutely no defensive cohesion. Ikitau at 12 – moving in to 10 on defence – meant there was no one who’s played any real time at 13 in the previous 12 months – or spent more than a season playing 13 at the top level ever – running the wide defensive channels. If Foketi’s presence was felt in Melbourne his absence was felt even more keenly in Auckland, where even Ikitau suddenly started missing tackles, because he couldn’t carry the entire backline on his own.

Haven’t commented in a while, but I’ve been a consistent reader.
Nick, I think the YC against Wright hurt the Bokke. Yes, they were dominant, but they spent the entire time in the Wallaby 22, where what I saw as their greatest advantage – one which should’ve been increased with Wright off the field – was nullified.

The Bokke had the sun behind them, along with a breeze, in the first half. They made some hay between 15 and 29 minutes by putting up the high ball. The Wallabies did ok, but they ended up trapped in their own 22. Because any unsecured high ball was followed with a flood of green jerseys, and they got good momentum off there.

With Wright off the field and both the sun and wind behind them, it would’ve been far better for the Bokke to be able to kick with that advantage, and also to pull defenders out of the Wallaby defensive line. Instead, with Wright binned, I don’t think the Bokke left the 22 until Faf’s moment of stupidity.

With a winger down, they weren’t able to put the high ball up into the blinding sunlight. Instead, they spent the time in ineffective phase play – phase play that produced very little until the Wallabies got lax with their discipline in not playing in their own half in the last 10 minutes (if only Wright or Paisami had kicked away possession rather than continuing to run the ball around 74 minutes).

Thorn is the most successful Rugby player of all time. Bar none. There’s not a trophy he hasn’t held aloft, and the same is true in League. As a player, I have nothing but the utmost respect for him, in spite of some truly grubby behaviour (like being penalized for a deliberate trip against the Reds in the 2011 SR Final).

As a coach, Thorn has still done very little. He was parachuted into coaching roles by the QRU when they were at their least competent (I mean, who picks Richard Graham, failing coach at the Force, failed Wallabies attack coach, to be promoted? And then does a ‘global search’ of the carpark to confirm he’s the best available coach?), largely off the back of the people who coached him (Bennett, Henry, Deans). But being a hard training, hard playing bloke coached by great coaches doesn’t prove you’re a great coach. Even being a role model and mentor doesn’t mean you’ll be a great coach. It’s a totally different skillset. One thing I like about McKellar and Robertson is that, regardless of playing careers, they’ve put in the hard yards and coached for nigh on two decades now. Both were coaches for over a decade before graduating to Super Rugby. Thorn wasn’t given that advantage, and so he hadn’t matured into what it takes to be a great coach. And winning SR Au last year doesn’t confirm that. Because it was significantly built off the back of assistant coaching appointments made by the QRU (Jim McKay), not by himself.

As it stands, without Covid, Thorn should’ve been gone. He’d had 3 losing seasons. There were glints of promise, but they were largely from a backline starting to understand Jim McKay. And given Thorn didn’t hire McKay, it’s hard to give him much credit for McKay’s work. So, to say the bloke’s accustomed to winning? Not as a coach……

In terms of Thorn selecting the players that best suit him as coach? I don’t believe that was remotely true when he took control of the Reds, because he had no idea what suited him as a coach. Because he had less coaching experience than the bloke running the U8’s at my club! And he wasn’t the technical tight five player, running the lineout. Nor has he ever given the impression he’s the flyhalf in a forward’s body that others have clearly demonstrated (Eddie Jones, McKenzie). So to think a bloke with two years’ coaching experience knows what he wants? Please… There’s far better coaches out there with 20 years’ experience who’d admit they don’t always know what they want – they just know when they’ve found it.

Beyond that, the mark of a truly great coach isn’t that they can coach the players and game plan they want. It’s that they can come up with a game plan to suit the players they have, and developing the players to broaden those skills. THAT is coaching.

I have a response, Mick, with explanations of the failings of the two quality provincial coaches and the one top class player (who is still a baby in coaching terms), but I think it’s too long? If this one posts, I’ll try it in a couple of sections.

I’m not following the crowd. I’m more consistent than 99% of them regarding Cooper. He has something you can’t coach – vision. You can’t coach speed, and you can’t coach vision. You can develop both, but if the natural talent isn’t there, the ceiling level just isn’t as high.

And Rodgers. Fewer games, but more seasons and equal TD’s (with 1/3 the INT’s) with Favre now.

I have a response for Mick, but it won’t post. Might be too long!
Anyway, it ends with…

Being a great provincial coach isn’t a guarantee of being a great national coach. There’s cracks that can be papered over at provincial level which can’t be fixed by recruiting or ‘club culture’ or whatever other advantages you might have before stepping up the level. It’s not dissimilar to American Football, where one of the greatest College coaches of all time was just fired from the NFL having lost more in a single season as an NFL coach than he did across all his seasons at multiple colleges. Because he couldn’t simply recruit his way out, and culture at College level allowed different behaviour than at the NFL.

Have a great Christmas. 😁

I don’t recall many at the Rebels in 2019. I do recall him being selected in the team of the week about 10 times out of 16…
I also recall the Rebels were the trial for the Wallabies’ 2019 RWC attacking systems (along with an Under 15’s team Cheika visited). It relied on bash and barge up the centre, and only using a little width after ‘earning the right’. When opponents realized and started beating up the Rebels’ pack (which wasn’t built for that), the Rebels had nothing. I recall seeing times where, trailing late in the game late in the season, the Rebels would stop driving through the centre – particularly if Cooper had identified a broken defensive line – and make metres out wider. Then you’d see a coloured vest approach Cooper at the next stoppage, and any thoughts of going wide were put away for the duration of the inevitable loss.

In 2016, Foley was exhausted and out of form. He’d been to Japan for a ‘sabbatical’ off the back of the RWC. He came back to the Tahs, and then went straight into Gold. He was clearly exhausted. And we were losing. So Cheika called up Cooper. We lost the first 2, won the next 3, all with Foley at 12, and then for reasons never truly explained, Foley was back at 10 for England, with Cooper unceremoniously dumped. Given it was England, we lost.
There’s always been more to it than just onfield form…

Was that personality clash the same thing that saw Fardy and Higginbotham marked, “Not for Selection”..? Because Cooper and Higginbotham had the same conversation with Cheika. Cooper eventually said, “You’re telling me to fix things I’m doing. If you’re not going to pick me, that fine – just man up and tell me.” At which point Cheik reportedly was grumpy and quickly exited the call. Which led to Cooper calling Higgers to discuss what had happened.

The brain fades comment has been around since 2008. It was accurate then. It hasn’t been accurate for YEARS now, though…

White’s slow when there’s nothing coming from 10. Whereas, when there’s insufficient direction from 10, Tate picks up and runs. Which is a key skill, but which will become too familiar and predictable.
Either way, for both of them, the issue in that situation is more often than not at 10.

I think it happened in reverse with Deans. The longer he was coach, the more Tahs he picked. It was said for a while there that, if you were paddleboarding in a certain cove of Sydney Harbour at a certain time of day, you could get an hour with Deans alone.

Given how relatively difficult it is to pop to training as Wallabies coach, there’s definitely a capacity for the Wallabies coach to see a lot more of one group than another. Which is usually the Tahs, given Wallabies coaches generally live in Sydney. Which can then lead to selecting blokes they know – something Cheika clearly did.

In terms of picking the guys they know, Link was the reverse option. He picked Toomua at 10 before picking Cooper, deciding to trial the guys he didn’t know first. Trying out the new toys, so to speak. Can’t blame him – that was a good Brumbies team!

Thanks for keeping the Rugby coming all the way to Chrismtas, Nick. I hope you’re having a fine Yuletide.

We keep hearing about how 35’s too old… It wasn’t for Dan Carter, and he had a MUCH more physically demanding pathway through to playing the RWC in 2015 at age 35. Carlos Spencer played Super Rugby at 38..? Cooper’s had a pretty good run physically the last few years – it’s kept him far fresher than, say, JOC. Who’s been up in the grind of English and French Rugby for over half a decade. I think he’s a fair old shot at making it.

In terms of playing in a system… I think he’s had that for years. The questions are around the quality of the systems. Link clearly had a decent system for his 10’s – the only time Beale ever looked good at 10 was playing in Link’s system (2008). Kicking? The Reds kicked 44% of their possession in 2011. Genia and Cooper were the form 9 and 10 in World Rugby in June/July 2011, but 2 months later they looked out of form. Cooper would later talk about how disconnected and unsupported he felt in that team. And I can’t think of a 10 who came away from Robbie Deans’ tenure with the Wallabies who wasn’t either dumped or a shell of the player they’d been. Cooper was filthy with Deans after Deans asked him to play injured, and then complained about how he played without acknowledging the issues were exacerbated by the injury. I remember him doing the same thing to Berrick Barnes, too.

There’s no question Cooper’s grown, but I think a lot of those attributes were already there, looking for the right environment. Which he didn’t find with Cheika (Fardy’s probably already expounded on that with you – Cooper said he and Higginbotham had the same conversation as each other, which was likely the same one Fardy had), Graham (no one shone under his coaching), Stiles, and the bloke known for tripping, slapping (in the video above) and collaring him wasn’t ever going to give him a fair go.

It’s just great to see quality coaching in Australia again. Coaching that adapts to what they’re facing. And it’s sad to see Johnson stepping out.

Anyway, have a fantastic Christmas, Nick.

It’s one thing to be authoritarian, it’s another to understand ‘staffing one’s weaknesses’, and to have assistants who you can trust to argue their knowledge of their field to override the head coach. The best coaches look for people who challenge their knowledge and positions – people like Macqueen, Henry, etc.
Because the best coaches recognise that no one is the suppository of all wisdom. 😛
Or the repository of all wisdom.

Thanks Nick.

Eddie’s an interesting bloke… I’ve always believed in the need for strong assistants – and I think Eddie probably realises that need. But he needs assistants harder than diamonds, stronger than kevlar! Which is, I think, why he worked so well in ‘consultant’ mode in 2007 – it gave opportunity for his ideas to be filtered, rather than having to have them challenged. But as a head coach… You know it’s going to make or break you to work with him, and you’d really need to want the work!

Turinui gave an interesting account of a moment in the 2003 RWC, including interactions with Jones, this week. Worth a read here:
https://wwos.nine.com.au/rugby/melbourne-cup-betting-dividends-first-four-morgan-turinui-relives-epic-2003-win/880f6184-e56a-444e-b336-b4db2b4119e9

I do NOT expect an answer on this one, but one wonders which Randwick boy would be easier to work under – Eddie or Cheik. One thinks he knows everything and expects everyone to match his, “I’ve just had a heart attack but I’ve got to keep working” work ethic. The other expects everyone to work physically hard, but doesn’t seem to care if he knows everything – he also doesn’t seem to care about other peoples’ ideas. It’s pretty clear which one had the better on field record in matches between the two…

Thanks Nick.
It’s interesting to see the development of Michael Hooper. He was always heralded as a great attacking player, because he’s a threatening ball carrier. People would decry Pocock as a terrible attacking player, whilst not recognising that he (like Stephen Moore and Nathan Sharpe before him) had developed quite a strong passing game through the second half of his career.

Now Michael Hooper’s done the same. Hooper was traditionally the player who’d get the ball, and would take it into contact. Usually on a break of some description, but he wasn’t great at linking. But as shown by your article, the attacking threat he presents now is arguably greater than ever, because he’s now part of a team. As in, the team now looks more connected than it has done for years, and he’s now capable of using supporting players, and making the right decisions on when to pass and when to run. And he looks genuinely happy. It’s great to see.

Certainly assisted by Valetini coming of age. I’ve been hearing about him for years, but each time he’s threatened to break through, he’s broken down. And then he’s been managed back – slowly. Never rushed to the top – unlike Petaia, Uelese, etc. He’s been allowed to grow and develop at lower levels, never moving up until he was dominating there. And it’s paid off.

Well, Link got the win that week (think that was the game where Shipperly scored from long range after the siren – I think after the Tahs prematurely celebrated), but he wasn’t ‘officially’ the coach anymore. Graham was, and Link moved into the DoR role, only really having strong impact on game plans for the Reds/Lions game (which was a cracker!) before moving on to the Wallabies. Either way, it shows that, every now and then, back before the laws were unnecessarily narrowed, you’d see a coach pull out clever tactics. I’m pretty sure the ABs were also doing it by the 2015 RWC.

The other ‘elite level gossip’ learnings we took from the course that day was how the Reds rated Gill more highly than Pocock (Gill picks up the ball, Pocock drags it back into the tackled player looking for the penalty), and how much the Reds respected – if not feared – Mowen at the lineout. There was no mention of anything Waratahs, Rebels or Force. But that Reds/Brumbies rivalry’s had a lot of high points through the years, all the way back to 1996.

I’d wager you’re right – but he didn’t tell the QRU staffers, and they were shellshocked watching the game back in Brisbane.
Yes, he asked people who weren’t high level coaches – they were development officers. Which, to me, indicated that he valued a wide range of input…

Thanks Nick – great read.
Rennie wasn’t the first in the ‘modern’ era to choose not to form rucks. That was Link, Round 1 in Super Rugby 2013. Against the Tahs. I did some training with a QRU employee a few months later and he related the story. Link asked a group of them at the office, “So, if there’s no ruck, there’s no offside lines, right? If we don’t form rucks, we can stand anywhere we want and not get penalized. What do you think?” The staffers said, “Yeah, but it’d be worth checking with the referees that they read the laws the same way, because it’s a big risk if they don’t. Maybe it’s worth asking around, waiting a couple of weeks..?” Well, that didn’t happen!

The cleanouts of Kellaway on Pollard and Hooper on Kolisi are the types of cleanouts I don’t enjoy seeing. Cleaning a tackler off his feet (Pollard) shouldn’t form a ruck and shouldn’t be necessary. But given the pace of the situation, it’s a lot harder for Kellaway to make that call (there’s no guarantee Pollard moves, so Kellaway has to go in). But Kolisi… Why’s he retreating on the edge of the gate? He’s not entering the contact zone through the gate (which I believe was always required as an arriving player), therefore he’s asking to be cleaned out or penalized.

I first noticed clever ruck work with Valetini’s efforts at the ruck which created Hooper’s try against France in the first Brisbane Test. He cleaned around the corner and beyond the tryline, which created the space for Hooper to back over. I looked at it (on replay, later) and thought, “That’s not typical Aussie breakdown work. That’s very clever stuff – that’s clearly coached.” Not something I’d thought about our breakdown work for a long, long time…

Along with pointing out Quade didn’t pay rent when he moved in with SBW back in 2017/18 when Thorn cut him. SBW was very generous with his praise, “I’m so proud of the man you’ve become,” sort of stuff, both were getting a bit teary, and then he cut it all with, “But I haven’t seen the rent.” Which cracked them both up.

SBW’s copped a lot of criticism – not all unjustified – for his capacity to speak cohesively live on air during the Stan/Nine broadcasts. But he carries respect with the players and coaches, and that connection draws out some excellent moments. For SBW to be watching as Quade knocked over that last kick, and then interview him, given that history (same player agent for years), it was perfect.

And yeah, SBW gave him heaps about his ‘tight pants’.

I think if you go onto the ‘Rugby on Nine’ Facebook page, you might be able to watch some footage. Under “Quade’s emotional SBW tribute” – try here:
https://ms-my.facebook.com/RugbyOnNine/videos/quades-emotional-sbw-tribute/3029729990633190/

There’s also a story on the tour squad, where the reports claim Lolesio’s been dropped from the touring squad. Along, reportedly, with Harry Wilson, Fraser McReight and Lukhan Salakaia-Loto.

SBW had a good dig at Quade about his tight pants in the post match interviews after the first SA Test. 😛

Quade’s selection maintains the ‘tight pants’ quota for the team. 😛