Wallabies v Springboks match report

Hayden you are spot on about our treatment of youngsters. Our latest stupidity is to cotton wool them and give them little chance to learn and succeed. The older stupidity was to throw them into the deep end and then drop them if they didnt perform like seasoned stars in their one test opportunity. What would Turner, Holmes, Barnes et al do if given enough time on the paddock. Unfortunately this takes balls in selections from people who can recognise talent and we dont seem to have had much of that recently.

The first DG was a cracker on any field, especially from a 20 year old in a tight test. Makes our cotten wool treatment of young stars look stupid. yes tests are a higher level but just look at what talent can do. Well done from Steyn, I think Matfield owes him a few beers after not taking the points option from successive penalties.

Oh without doubt the first DG was an astonishing, the second was under pressure - Steyn is a real talent

Does anyone realise just how difficult it is to kick a drop goal at Newlands. That lush, soft surface is very different from the nice hard, kikuyu fields of the Highveld, where you can get just the right amount of bounce (and thin air) to blast it a long way. Anyone can do it there, and all you need to practise is accuracy. But at Newlands it's another matter, which just shows how good Steyn's performance was. Also, for those of us who have watched rugby at Newlands over the past 300 years, we can count the number of drop goals on the fingers of our one hand (and most we probably kicked by Naas Botha on his occasional, heartbreaking visits there in the light blue)

JC's five forward bench was a complete waste of time when Hoiles only got 90 seconds on the pitch. What is the point of stacking the bench then? If Chis and Hoiles are needed on the bench then Waugh must be left out of the team. His defence and lack of ball stealing skills allowed the SA to secure the field position and ball security needed at the end of the game. Enough of the rotation, everyone knows Smith is the superior player so let him play. Hoiles can cover 6,7,8 and can jump in the lineouts, besides, Smith doesn't get injured. Polata-Nau, Polata-Nau, Polata-Nau, Polata-Nau, Polata-Nau, Polata-Nau,Polata-Nau. The strongest and fastest hooker in Australia and has the best natural field instincts out of our front rowers. Frier tries valiantly but has had his chance time and time again and fell short. Huxley out.

Sheek cant think of anyone you have missed out. Rathbone is out it appears as he needs an operation on his knee. Is Jeremy Paul worth a spot? of the 3 old brumbies I think he is hanging together the best. Still there is strong competition for the hooking spot and thats good. Polatau Nau has great potential he just seems a little overwhelmed in the big games he got lost against the Junior AB's as did most of them. Would love to see Staniforth in the centres against the AB's as that would show what he has against the highest competition. Think he is wasted on the wing - we have too many wings as it is. Ashley-Cooper could also be a dark horse for the world cup starting side he has played strongly without being outstanding yet. If only we had a replacement for Sharpe, think he has a heart like a disprin. The outsider that Conolly refered to as World Cup captain (rugby heaven this morning) could be Vickerman. I have heard Conolly talk about him in glowing terms. Would be interesting change if it comes about. He certainly has captaincy ability about him if he can stay fit. Mortlock still does a good job for us and I would be happy if he remains as captain. Dont want 2 captains and dont think Gregan can command the half back position over a recovering Cordingly or a dramitically improving Holmes.

A question .... Where is Kurtley Beales' best position? Is it flyhalf, or would he be a better option being developed as a fullback? My thinking is that with his pace and ability for the unconventional he could be another Latham.

If fit i'd like to see Turner in the squad of 30. Play him against some of the minnows and see how he goes - in fact as probable players for 2011, Barnes, Turner & Holmes should all be given some WC game time.

Stu & others, Yeah, agree Staniforth should be in the mix. Disagree Chisholm is just tall timber. It's some way off, but the WC squad is shaping as follows, assuming all fit & available: tight-heads: Blake & Shepherdson. Baxter? loose-heads: Dunning & Holmes. hookers: Polota-Nau & Moore. Paul? Freier? locks: Vickerman, Sharpe, Chisholm & Horwill. blindsiders: Elsom & McMenamin. opensiders: Smith & Waugh. eightmen: Palu & Hoiles. scrumhalfs: Gregan & Cordingly. Holmes? Valentine? flyhalfs: Larkham (Giteau to cover). Beale? Barnes? centres: Giteau, Mortlock, Staniforth, Ashley-Cooper & Cross. wingers: Tuqiri, Shepherd, Mitchell & Gerrard. Rathbone? fullbacks: Latham (Shepherd/Mitchell/Gerard to cover). Huxley? Have I missed anyone? Solid combination, one that can only be treated lightly by the opposition at their peril. Witht the utility value in the backs, the selectors could mimic the 1999 squad which had an extra forward (17), & one less back (13).

Sheek, Thanks for the post. I agree the number of tests should not be the only indicator and that in the end people always gravitate towards Ella as being our best fly-half. I guess i have only really seen clips of him playing and never seen him in whole matches. I guess over the last 10 years i have come to admire Larkham's tenacity - the funny thing is that for some Larkham maybe defined by "that kick", or his running/passing or tackling. I think the one moment that to my mind defined him was in the 1st Bledisloe of '98, when he charged down Mehrten's conversion attempt. That just doesn't happen at the international level, particularly against a player of the calibre of Andrew Mehrtens. To the point that we have an old guard in the halves, yes we do. Gregan and Larkham are on the last legs, but they are the only legs they, and we have got. Maybe between them and the team, the Wallabies can conjure up something special. I would love to hear and see George shouting "4 more years" across another maul in France later this year. BTW - I think those that have queried Staniforth's exclusion from the bench are spot on. The guy cares passionately about winning, compared to some of the more recent Wallaby backs, who seem to act as if near enough is good enough.

I agree Matt, well said. Also agree re: Hoiles and Staniforth. I just can't fathom Ashley-Cooper on the bench. Yeah sure he is a future No 13 probably but simply can't cover what Staniforth can cover. Staniforth has not put a foot wrong all season, what else does he have to prove? I would like to see a further change .... I agree that Moore played quite well but would like to see what Polata-Nau would offer, a little more than Moore I'll wager.

Terry, Well, I must have watched the same game as you. First off, Huxley's had a rough time: You play in your first 3N test, at fullback in a game where the opposition is camped in your half with 65% of the ball, and then get bagged for not carving them ribbons like Latho would've. Yep, he made a couple of kicking errors, but that was about it. I also counted at least one try saving tackle (maybe two) head on with the monster Spies (Waugh couldn't hold him) and a sharp turn of pace to deny Montgomery's chip and chase. In the absence of Saint Latho he definitely deserves another run out, especially if he can get his punting game on song in these 3N. Same can be said for Mitchell and Tuquiri. Neither made any howlers and defended well. What can a winger do on attack with no ball? As for the scrum; it actually worked. The scrappy one we had was from a back-row move gone wrong. Otherwise, we actually put far more hits on them. Kudos to Foley for the technical changes. Changes, small but important: 1) I'm gobsmacked Staniforth wasn't on the bench. Is he injured? He can cover anything from 11 to 14 and gives us the option of having Giteau at 10. I believe we should actually be giving this set up the odd run-out to a) see how off the pace Larkham is and b) get ready for Larkham's injury. Ashley-Cooper simply doesn't give the same options. 2) Chisholm vs Hoiles as first replacement 6. Wrong choice. Keep Chisholm on the bench 'till the end to cover whole back row and second row. Hoiles could have really made a difference on Sat, Chisholm is just tall timber. Otherwise what we've got is what we've got. Let's build on from last Saturday, rather than throw the baby out. Matt

Stu, Won't let your post through unanswered. If Larkham is the alchemist, then Ella might be the wizard who gave him the formula! Are we going to determine greatness purely on the number of tests played? In that case, those of the professional era win hands down. Dally Messenger is often selected by panels of rugby experts in a Wallaby all-time XV on the basis of just 2 tests. Yes, that's right - 2 tests! But his diametrically opposed effect on the fortunes of two Rugby codes, union & league, has something to do with his elevated status. Ella played 25 tests, Lynagh 72 & Larkham is about to appear in his 1000th (Okay, 100, just having a dig at the proliferation of tests these days). Irony is, had Ella continued on, he might have played about 50 tests, & Lynagh 60. Okay, speculation, I know. Total points per test is irrelevant. Not everyone is a goalkicker. Tries per test is also irrelevant. Might have meaning for a winger, but not for a flyhalf. Playing behind a strong pack helps. For example, run of the mill ABs wingers can average almost a try a test, thanks to their usually awesome packs. They get to enjoy plenty of possession. Anyway, 3 great flyhalfs all the same - Ella, Lynagh, Larkham. Let's nor forget the ancients either, like Tom Lawton snr. His nickname was the "loping ghost". So you see, the phrase 'ghost' was used long before Larkham came along. Indeed, Lawton was the 1920-30s version of Larkham. Same tall, wiry build. Able to absorb punishment. Solid tackler. Outstanding runner, passer, kicker. Good goalscorer. Tactically brilliant. Rarely ruffled. Swap Larkham & Lawton eras & we might be going ga-ga over Lawton today! If we're going to make grandiose statements about who's the best, & I include myself in this, we should also learn about the past. Our history, contrary to what we might think, didn't begin when only each of us started following the game! Anyway, getting back to the thread, as a rugby mate advised me, too late now to be suggesting Larkham & Gregan should be retired. Firstly Eddie Jones & now John Connolly , along with the ARU, have failed to put a succession plan in place. So we're going to have to give both Larkham & Gregan the 'elixer of youth', hold them together with staples & bandages splints, & hope they have one last, great campaign left in them.

I was about to hit the sack but the Larkham part of this thread buoyed me. I can only comment on the last 3 decent #10 we have had. Those being Ella, Lynagh and Larkham. Without taking too much away from Ella he played 25 matches, alot? but really compared to Lynagh and Larkham it is a little. Ella didn't play long enough to really know him. He stopped just as he'd started to show himself. Larkham 25th test was just before the '99 RWC and by then he'd scored more than 12 tries (6 more than Ella) and he'd just help orchestrate the first clean sweep against the AB's in god knows how long. By the time Lynagh had played 25 matches he'd scored over 300 points for the Wallabies. Lynagh was the classic 5/8, and wouldn't Connolly love to have him around today - Lynagh was safe he was the connection into which Horan, Little and Campese were plugged. Larkham however was/is a total freak, his running style completely stumped the defence, good old Gordon Bray's term "ghosting" was spot on and his passing game until recently was without peer. Larkham found space and time that existed for no other man. Larkham was and still is an alchemist, he has had greats like Tune, Roff, Horan, Little. Burke and Herbert outside him but he has also performed at the cutting edge with lesser support. Overtime Larkham has tired - he's not who he was but he's still leagues beyond any other australian 5/8. I think that since the game went professional that there have been a number of great Wallabies - Eales, Horan, Burke, Roff, Gregan, Kefu, Kearns, Herbert and Smith, but for sheer longevity and bloody minded courage and resilence Steve Larkham is without peer.....But still he can't kick for shit....

Sheek Luckily I have seen these 4 flyhalves and even had the pleasure/pain of playing against Ella a couple of times in my day - deceptively fast bastard. My view: Ella - great creative 5/8 but didnt stay around long enough to form an opinion about his ability in the long run. Something of a shooting star but not an Australian icon in my book. As you said hated training and maybe it might have been a factor in his early retirement as there was more pressure to become fitter and more professional even in those days. Despite the limited time he is 2nd in my book. McLean - Was the last in a line of kicking flyhalfs . Seemed to prefer to kick it than run with it . Always struck me as predictable and a bit slow - despite your statement about his speed off the mark. Maybe its more what you do with the ball than how fast you do it. Or maybe I was deluded or drunk at the time. Genuine 4th. Lynagh - Got better and stronger the longer he played culminating in that amazing win in Ireland. In the end I was sorry to see him go but when you look at who was around him in Farr-Jones, Campese, Horan and Little you would expect a good performance. My guess is that he comes 3rd in your 4. Larkham - I agree with all you say about him but I do believe that his kicking game, particularly short kicks for players running through, was pretty good. He used to have a better long, kicking for territory, game than he does today. His longevity and the fact that nobody has come within coeee of threatening his position stamp him as an outstanding player. He has won many games for us with his slight of body (sure you know what I mean) and his coolness under pressure and even his falling back to play full back when there was nobody but him to stop a try under the posts. John Eales was magnificent in every way and lead and played with great distinction but I do believe that Steve Larkham embodies everything I admire in a Rugby Player- holding a position and faith in winning when all is lost - attacking at a time they least expect it- controlling the game and leading the backs from the front putting your body on the line. No wonder that every breakaway in the world wanted a slice of him over the years and most of them got it. The amazing thing is that he has lasted this long. He should have retired 2 years ago to great plaudits and honours and saved himself from all of us criticising him but I guess thats not part of his makeup. The cynics might say the money is too good to refuse. Who Knows!

The Match Report by Garth Hamilton is so superior to anything else written in the Australian Media over the last 4 or 5 years that he should write all regby news for all media outlets, in fact a bronz statue should be erected....................... The weakest links in the Wallabys appeared to me to be the back 3, and the Lineout calls & throwing - every thing else was positive. Some of the creatures inhabiting this site with their opiniated biased weekin and weekout comments, would appear to live in a world of Alice in Wonderland, and are still looking for " the yellow brick Road" when its plainly there before their eyes .

Bob Thomas, You said: "Larkham is the best Australian rugby player I have seen in over 30 years". Well, let's see...that's since about 1977-78. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. No argument from me that Steve Larkham is an Australian rugby icon. But the best????? First of all, I disagree totally with comparing apples with babanas, or flyhalfs with props. I prefer to compare apples with apples. How do you equate a flyhalf being more valuable than a prop, or a centre, or a lock, etc? Anyway, you're saying Larkham is better than a Burke, or a Campese, or a Horan, or an Ella, or a Farr-Jones, or a Loane, or a Poidevin, or an Eales, or a Rodriguez, or a Kearns? Since 1978, there have been 4 outstanding number 10s for Australia, in sequence - Paul McLean, Mark Ella, Michael Lynagh, Steve Larkham. Paul McLean - from memory the best athlete of the 4. Quick off the mark, apparently fastest Wallaby over 30-40 metres in his time. Good all-round game - passing, running, kicking, goalscoring. Sound defender. Cool under pressure normally, but could be ruffled occassionally. Above average tactically. Mark Ella - the most dynamic playmaker of the 4. Deceptively quick over first 10-15 metres. Flawed genius, lazy trainer, average kicker but good drop-goaler, good defender when he had to, but preferred not to. But no flyhalf could set alight his backline like Ella, & bring out the very best attacking skills in players numbered 11 to 15. Usually unruffled, but could also be pressured occasionally. Excellent tactically. Michael Lynagh - the most technically complete & proficient flyhalf of the 4. Excellent passer, runner, kicker, goalscorer. Solid defender. Usually cool & calm under pressure. Above average tactically. Steve Larkham - the most robust of the 4. Often too courageous for his own good. Best defender, good runner & passer. Ordinary kicking game. Usually strong under pressure, but could become testy. Above average tactically. I guess who you prefer depends on a combination of factors - generational loyalty, the style of Rugby you prefer, how you perceive the position should be played, etc. I guess if I had to rank them in the order of their ability to bring fans to the game, &/or tune into their TV sets, & make Rugby the greatest Football code of all, it would be - 1.Ella, eq 2. Lynagh & Larkham (can't separate), 4. McLean.

Terry - I agree that the tactic was to not kick the ball out to nulify the Bok lineout. I just think that the Aussie players need to have the flexibility to CHANGE the plan that is devised on the whiteboard pre-game when it isn't working. Sure - the lineout was nulified but our team spent so much time tackling on the counter-attack they never had a platform to attack themselves. Fair crack of the whip on the Larkham statue call GregH - a bronze should be built and erected right outside Canberra Stadium! You blokes have too many leaguies to build statues to in Brisi and Homebush! Hang in there with that wind on the Coast tonight you blokes!

Hello All, Just some comments on Garth's match report .... I'm not sure we watched the same game Garth. I agree that Huxley was a little off with his kicking and doesn't offer much in the way of counterattack but he did pull off a superb front-on try saving tackle on Spiers. I thought the scrum level pegged and the pack as a whole performed quite brilliantly at everything except the lineouts, especially in the last 20 minutes with Feirer throwing .... possibly they were too worried about Matfield? I thought the young ref did ok. Sure he could have penalised a couple of more things, on both sides, but I thought he punished basically what needed to be punished and let the game flow. if I criticsize his performance anywhere it would be that twice in the second half the Boks tried the rolling maul and it was stopped twice, he allowed it to restart and never called 'use it' when the maul stopped. I thought both LT and Mitchell did ok, they cleaned up well at the back, Mitchell supported Huxley and kicked well, LT ran the ball back hard. Garth, I can't see where Mitchell had 'more bad moments than good'. A couple of you guys have commented about Larkham not finding touch with some of his kicks .... have you thought that maybe the tactic was not to find touch but keep the ball in play? Thus avoiding the Bok lineout on their throw .... a good attacking platform ... and forcing the Boks to either kick it out or kick it back. In my opinion I had the privilege of watching a classic hard fought test match that could have gone either way and I was happy with the Wallaby performance overall, some fine tuning to bve done sure ..... but overall happy. The glass is no longer half full, it has been topped up a little.

Slomo you are (most probably) right but I do get wound up by the real guts and determination he has shown over the years. Always get Hipwell and Catchpole mixed up. Catchpole had finished his career by the time I arrived here in 75 but the discussion about Colin Meads and Catchpole has always been used to motivate players when playing Kiwi's. I was a bit perplexed when, just before playing a touring Kiwi team in the late 70's "Remember Catchpole" was the war cry. Didn't know anything about it and felt it inappropriate to ask 2 mins before we swarmed out to play the Catchpole Killers.