Up there Cazaly!

The club v provincial competition jibe is a cheap shot. Anyone looking at this discussion not coming from a rugby preference would admit that overall AFL players seem stronger and more skilled than players of any other code. Rugby (quite rightly) lauds John Eales for being tall and able to kick - there are at least 25 guys in the AFL close to 7 foot who can pick up a ball on the run, move with a swerve and offload the ball via hand or foot with accuracy. Not sure how the skills would transfer to Rugby's set up but there is no denying that the top 100 AFL players would give the top 100 rugby players a run for their money (whether they are playing lcub, provincial or test level)... Spiro - I agree - the pattern running off the ball displayed in AFL would be a very interesting addition in favour of the league inspired line up and shoot straight attack we currently have.

That's interesting Spiro - never realised AFL grounds could be of different dimensions. On another note I'd like to thank this thread to opening my eyes to the fact that the song is "Up There Cazaly!"... and not "Up Yours Cazaly". :-S

On the Sydney Domain they were able to play about five games of cricket. Th thing about Australian Rules Football is that, like cricket, it is a game where the dimensions of the ground are variable. There is no standard AFL ground size. The SCG is much smaller than the MCG, and because of this the Swans have developed a particular style of playing that is generally more effective on the smaller field than it is on the bigger fields. And in the early days of Australian Rules the fields could sometimes be some miles long, an impossibility in Sydney and Brisbane.

If, as Spiro syas, "the expansion of Australian Rules was thwarted in Sydney and New Zealand by the relatively simple matter of a lack of space to play the game on" it makes you wonder how on earth cricket managed to prosper with nowhere to play?

What I love about the clips of great marks is the athleticism and courage of the leapers. Australian Rules is a tremendous spectacle. The ceaseless running off the ball is generally lost by the television cameras which makes the game much better to watch live than on television. I also love the fact that if a player out-plays his opponent this can affect the outcome of the game. It's forgotten now that the expansion of Australian Rules was thwarted in Sydney and New Zealand by the relatively simple matter of a lack of space to play the game on. In Sydney, the Domain could run several games of the code Searly (rightly) believes should be kept out of discussion on this thread. In NZ Australian Rules, nicknamed 'the Victorian Science,' was popular in Christchurch which has a similar flat landscape to Melbourne. A NZ team competed successfully in an Australian Rules carnival for state sides around the early 1900s, defeating South Australia. An old timer in Wellington NZ in the 1930s who had some fame as a great barracker at the rugby (sorry Searly) was asked when he finally retired from his shouting, who was the greatest footballer he ever saw, replied: 'Davy McNamara of the St Kilda Club, Melbourne.' I checked this out and the old-timer had named one of the legends of Australian Rules Football.

That highlights package is one of the best I've ever seen, but surely if we're going to treat The Roar as a site for opinion on "Sports", then pieces about Aussie Rules need to be presented in their own context, not simply as an opportunity to discuss Rugby. The marks I love best in that package are the ones going back with the flight of the ball. That's always been one of the trademarks of a courageous player and Nick Riewoldt is one of the best of the current crop in that regard. Anyone fancy discussing whether the AFL's tinkering with the rules (e.g. the hands in the back interpretation) and its current stance on physical contact (e.g. Anthony Rocca's suspension for a solid shepherd on Sean Dempster) is running the risk of removing some of the spectacular aspects of the game? Or does it have more to do with the tactics of coaches who don't want their players kicking to contests?

group hug?

Matta, Your point is accepted, although obvious. Of course, it's not just the other codes taking players away from Rugby. Some simply don't have the opportunity, or inclination, but I thought that was a given. Okay, I simply used Tony Lockett as an example. He might have been a dork at Rugby, he might have been a champion, we'll never know. There's nothing wrong with speculating, which is what the thread was asking us to do. Slomo, of course I agree with you. Rugby needs to be more pro-active in developing its future talent. Then we might spend less time worrying about how good AFL or rugby league players would have been playing Rugby Union.

There is an essential argument missing in this debate and that is the step up to top level Rugby. How many time have we seen terrific state players fail to make the grade to Super 14 because the pace of the game was simply too fast for them or the hits too hard. Similarly, going from Super 14 to the full international game is another major step up which many players can't achieve. It is a significant issue. The ARU is introducing another level of Rugby in this country so that we can help good players make the transition. With all due respect to the AFL players they are only playing Club football. They can't even manage to have a highly competitive interstate series that captures the public interest, and the annual Gaelic Football fiasco is simply an excuse for a trip. If going from club football to state level, then Super 14 and then full international level is so difficult for Rugby players then it is logical to suggest it would be just as difficult for an AFL player. It is the same in League, I have heard many time that the State of Origin games are so much quicker and harder that a very good club player often struggles to make the step up. As Matta said thinking an AFL player can make the grade just because he is big or fast or can kick is simply silly. It is a very big call to suggest that any of them would even make a Super 14 team.

In reality It is amazing that OZ is competitive in world Rugby. NSW & Qld are the only real rugby states & then it is in numbers less than League. Even without AFL If the two rugby codes combined then the rest of the world would have a worry!

This is a good topic for conversation if you've got lots of time and nothing to do. Like me lying in the sun fantasizing what I would have looked like if Marilyn Monroe had been my mother. Before Rugby union became professional the same conversations could be heard about how strong Australian Rugby would be if only all Leaguies played union. Now they can and they have and it never happened. Neither would AFL players make much difference. Why should they? And this seems to be the problem with Australian rugby. Why don't people develop talent from within rather than always daydreaming about poaching players from other codes or from Argentina? Sure there's talent in Australia but with the existing rugby mentality it's not going to be fully exploited, ever.

Any Aussie Rules coach would have wanted John Eales as a ruckman at his peak. Height,catching skill, jumped over everbody and mobility. Could kick OK as well, ask the All Blacks! On the other side Warren Tredrea with bulk,skill & balance would make a handy rugby player.

The techniques of taking a high ball should be adopted by rugby sides, just as the drop punt has replaced the torpedo kick for most rugby kickers now. AFL players, too, have incredible aerobic fitness which should be incorporated into rugby training. i also think that some of the zone patterns might be usefully studied by rugby coaches.

yeah i agree but i think we would uncover a lot more gifted blokes who arent playing anything because Rugby is not big in their area. Know what i mean? To say Tony Lockett would be a world class rugby player just cos he is a big bloke is silly.

Matta, You need to look outside the box. Let's say there was never any Australian Football (or rugby league), & these wonderful AFL athletes only knew Rugby Union from the cradle. Once you change your perspective, you'll see things in a different light. At present, you're seeing AFL players as AFL players, & struggling to see them playing Rugby. But imagine them as Rugby players only, from say age 6 or 7. Awesome! Imagine Carlton or Essendon or Port Adelaide or West Coast clubs steeped in Rugby tradition for over a century. Imagine the same for Victoria, South Australia & Western Australia at state level.

Australia has proven its athletic prowess over a range of sports, over a century of competition. I have absolutely no doubt that had Rugby Union been accepted into the mainstream consciousness of all Australians, in the same way it took over the consciousness of New Zealanders & white South Africans, being able to attract the very best talent & support systems, then Australia would also be the Cricket equivalent in Rugby. We would be top dog, most of the time. Imagine also, an interstate comp dating back almost as long as the Cricket Sheffield Shield, which began in 1892. No doubt about it, NZ & SA & the other Rugby nations can thank their lucky stars Australia hasn't been unified in its Football codes. Yep, it's a sporting tragedy of sorts. While Australia was unified with Cricket during summer, we went in different directions with out Football codes in winter. Tony Lockett? What a powerhouse! He could have made an awesome loosehead prop, with his size, strength, mongrel, mobility, athleticism & skills. Chris Judd a flanker? Even the enigmatic Ben Cousins at flyhalf or centre? Fraser Gehrig a lock? Gary Ablett a similar fullback/winger to Campese? Gee, I need to think more about this, I'm salvitating!

I have had this debate with a few people before and I have to say I reckon very few AFL players would make the grade even if they had grown up with Rugby. The thing is, at the elite level you are dealing with the top 5% of the sport so it would only be the true freaks who would make it.