New Zealand's Catch 22

OK here's a big idea for O'Neill and the NZRU and one that won't see the light of day but I guarantee would be a success. Instead of the farcicial and boring NH teams tours in June where we get the clapped out oldies or development squads (England in 03 have been the only team to take a southern tour seriously in the last decade) run a Pacific "Country of Origin" tournament in June between Aus, NZ, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji. Suspend the IRB qulaification rules for the Pacific rugby championships and instead use Origin qualification - going back a couple of generations. Lets look at some combinations - in the backrow Tonga could field Laukiki (NZ loose forward), Palu and George Smith ( one of his parents from there yes?) , Samoa Collins and Rodney. The Fiji backline would have Lote, Rocko and Sivi. Its also a realsitic way the many Islander players in the NH to appear back "home" as they would be paid well. I know the Pacific rugby champoinship is already up and running but we need to get the involvement of the test players and NH based players for this to fly. Guarantee you would fill stadiums in Aus and NZ and with at least one game in Suva, Samoa and Tonga would be a huge boost for developing rugby in these countries. Don't make these games test status to appease the old fuddy-duddies at the IRB and also save face for the Wallabies and All Blacks when they lose!

Maybe Radeki Samo can finally get back to playing for Fiji...

Why don't the IRB just set up a decent appeals court for player eligiblity? Obviously the players we're all talking about here are the guys of PI decent who play 1-5 games for NZ or OZ and then cannot play for the tier 2 countries of their ancestors? This is not a very common occurance, so would it be too hard to just set up a claims court to cover each appeal? Lodge your appeal, state your intention to permanently switch alleigance and, if the judge thinks you have a genuine claim and that the game overall would be better for it, then hey presto!! If individuals (or panels) can decide on the quality of a refs performance, or the intention and punishment for a dangerous tackle, then why can't they decide if the game could benefit from a player wearing the jersey of a different country that is part of his heritage? As for attempting to bring the PI's into top level rugby, I personally think they're better off using the Pumas technique for success. Run a amatuer, low cost, home Union and farm off talent to foreign clubs, who then invest masses of money into developing your players, before they come together for one off test matches. There are over 400 professional Argentine players in Europe! Thats a heck of a lot more than the 200-300 professional Aussie players. With that many fulltime Argentineans is it any wonder that they're upsetting the big nations? What the PI's should be doing is trying to get more players into the European systems rather than just the NZ and Aus comps. And finally, regarding IRB funding of the Islands. They've initiated the Pacific 6 Nations (for the 3 national teams) and the Pacific Rugby Cup (for domestic Island rugby) and have ploughed millions into high performance academies. I for one think that they're doing the Island alot of favours. Especially with the very limited control they have over the major powers of the game (the Big 8 Unions).

Jason I looked at that web site, thanks, it makes interesting reading. Maybe the Roar could use it as an article. That's what I really love about this site; there's always something to learn and people to swap ideas with.

Sam, I was introduced to Rugby as a supporter late in life, having been weaned on Aussie rules in the VFL. What sold me on rugby was the spirit of the Hong Kong Sevens.Off the park I had never seen so much alchohol consumed from groups of men from around the globe with not a hint of trouble.Happy people everywhere,fantastic.On the feild, a rule then, (I have no idea if it still applies)was a team could request the help of a player from another nation that had been knocked out of the tournament, to replace an injured player.I saw a player from Wales pull on an English strip, and I once saw David Campese sit on the bench as a reserve for Fiji as they were unable to feild a full strength team.,and Australia were out of the comp . What an honour. But David did not get a run as nobody else got injured. A pity that. Would something the following work. Fiji play Australia in a test match.They should be allowed to invite players of Fijian heritage not aligned with either the Wallabies or the AB's to play for Fiji. It matters not if these players are NZ or OZ citizens. There must be several excellent players not playing test rugby that would welcome the opportunity to play for Fiji. Over the years many have noted Fijis preference for the seven a side version game of the fifteen man game. Maybe if Fiji could slot a few players into the team that had extensive experience in the fifteen man game in NZ or OZ they might draw good crowds and really turn on some good rugby. If this suggestion had merit,we could then play all the PI nations using similar rules on a regular basis. If Fiji wanted to enlist the help of ex Wallabies or ex AB's , so be it. Furthermore , an Australian national of Fijian heritage would not be denied the right of playing for the Wallabies sometime in the future. Keep searching for an answer , it will be worth it.

Hello all This is a dilemma faced by children of all migrant families that have settled elsewhere. Unfortunately I wasn't skilled enough as a player to face a choice between Samoa or NZ but I have friends and relatives that were placed in that position. Some chose to play for Samoa, some stuck it out for NZ and some played for both countries. My sons will also be in that position qualifying for both Australia and NZ for their chosen sport, if they're good enough. Sheek's suggestion about asking young players their preference is well intended but I'm sure none of us knew for certain what we wanted to do when we left school and the same could also apply to asking teenagers which country they would like to represent in sport. It's never cut and dried as one might think and the current eligibility rules although designed to protect against players swapping national allegiances like they might their underwear works against many players of Polynesian backgrounds in Australia and NZ who may only play a few games and are no longer in consideration but are still able to contribute something to their ancestral homeland. Is this fair? Should they have that choice? Fact of the matter is they do have that choice as would any other immigrant who qualifies for two countries by birth and parentage. Argentina may provide a model that works better for the Pacific which is at odds with how other countries have embraced professionalism. Locally in Argentina the game is strictly amateur, they don't have the infrastructural support to run a professional domestic comp so they've decided not to. Instead they export their best talent overseas to reap the benefits of fulltime training and playing in a higher standard of competition to what they could get at home. The overseas clubs incur the cost and Argentina are now reaping the benefit of producing an outstanding group of players that have been refined in Europe. The Pacific island countries face the same problem and already export their best talent either through school scholarships or natural migration. The difference is that once their talent is identified in the Australian and NZ systems the appeal of representing those countries is often greater than the pull of their mother country and many of them qualify by residency or birth. I don't know whether that will ever or can ever stop, at least by playing in Europe it's a bit more distinct for Polynesian players choosing which country to represent. I don't pretend that this is an ideal solution or that it will solve anything, I'm with the rest of you I don't profess to know the answers. But at least we're trying and putting our heads together.

Thats what we need Sheek,enormous goodwill and financial input But self interest will out. Somehow or other, if OZ cannot fit all the talented Australians of PI heritage into the Wallabies, they must be given the opportunity to play for the nation of their parents. We struggle to find ways to liven up Rugby in Oz,broaden its apeal, All that.The answer in part lies in fostering a stragic rugby alliance with the PI nations. How?, I dont know, but it needs to be done.

Onside/Jason, A mate suggested to me that professionalism was actually a drawback to spreading the game of rugby. Reason? Professionalism requires a dollar benefit. Therefore, unles the powers that be see a profit somewhere down the line, then they are not interested or motivated. In the old amateur days the game spread through goodwill & the passionate endeavour of "devotees". An example of my friend's argument is rugby league. Despite being professional before rugby, & being so for over 100 years, it has made a much less significant impact on the sporting landscape worldwide. When is a Polynesian a New Zealander or Australian? When is he a Fijian, Samoan or Tongan?? As mentioned, the Polynesians come to NZ & OZ to give themselves & their families a better economic future. The same applies to the decision made by young Polynesians to commit to either the ABs or Wallabies. As an AB or Wallaby they are guaranteed the opportunity to travel the world, & compete against the very best. Besides, if NZ & OZ bring these players through their junior & schools sysyems, they're entitled to feel they should themselves benefit from the players' abilities. I don't profess to know the answers. The following is given as a suggestion, & it would reuire enormous goodwill from NZ & OZ, not to mention financial input. Ask/encourage young Polynesians in NZ & OZ at a young age if they want to represent their island nation. Provide Fijian, samoan & tongan schools teams within NZ & OZ that these guys can aspire to. Of course, I'm going down the state-of-origin path here. At senior level, that is, provincial rep level, provide Fijian, Samoan & Tongan state-of-origin teams in both the ANZ Cup & ARC, or equivalent. Then at S14 level, both the island residents & state-of-origin players can come together to play for Fiji, Samoa & Tonga. Then at 3N level, or 5N, you would have the South african Boks, Australian Wallabies, NZ ABs, Argentina Pumas & Pacific Islands Warriors. Then it would be up to the IRB to provide a decent international schedule for the Pacific islands. At World Cup time, the 3 island nations would continue to represent individually. However, as said, it would require enormous goodwill & financial input from NZ & OZ with little short-term benefit to them, other than the long-term ideal that they might get good crowds in the future from playing strong teams from Fiji, Samoa & Tonga.

Jason, I realise much of what I say is wishful thinking, or maybe just plain wrong. That doesn't worry me,being wrong that is.My aim is to see if it is possible to include and support the PI nations a bit more.I would love to see them play in Australia on a regular basis,even for most players it would mean . playing an away test match at home.They need a lot of help,and the rewards would be fantastic.The bottom line is it could nothing but help the AB's (and Aus) And the fact remains, lack of oppostion is the AB's achilles heal

Please read http://worldcup.planet-rugby.com/Story/0,21043,13089_2760268,00.html and get it together. New Zealand is (as is Australia to a certain degree) a Pacific nation. Auckland is the biggest Samoan city in the world! Polynesian families move to New Zealand for economic reasons and some of their sons have a flair for a game where being large, strong and fast are an asset. They work their way through the New Zealand rugby system and a few of them become All Blacks. I would be very suprised if anybody could find a Polynesian not born in New Zealand who has played even age grade in the Islands then become an All Black. I think you would find that it generally works the other way. That is all aside however, as the crux of the above is correct. After the performance of a number of the PI nations at the RWC it is a shocking that they don't have more support. However the people to look at are the IRB. These are the guys with the cash, these are also the guys with the power to develop 2nd and 3rd tier rugby, get them the games to help them up and generally spread the good word. But from all accounts they don't. I can't be 100% sure of the reasons, but I would say it has a good deal to do with the selfish natures of most tier 1 nations, not just New Zealand. The things is that domestic competitions are important to the top guys and, the same as Argentina, the vast majority of the top PI players are based in these competitions. If PI rugby is to get strong they need to be based closer to home in a professional capacity, The Super 14 can't really support that, but I am also sure that the Northern countries would be loathe to lose their PI players. Therefore what happens is players are spread geographically and between seasons making it almost impossible to get a fit coherent team together at any point. That is even if the clubs will let them play for country (English clubs seem good at this.) Now, is their an answer? Well the Pacific Island Cup was a good start, but the IRB need to start driving more competition like this with games maybe in Europe and Australia and New Zealand as well as at home. It is going to cost, but the IRB need to make a loss on this if it is going to help rugby as a world game.