Parlous Games

They get paid too much. Seriously for the standard of rugby in this country (they need to be worked harder - they need to get tougher - they need to skill up ) they get paid too much. These players should be so knackered from playing and training that they cant get off the couch to go out and misbehave.

Ben, My point is I don't think its appropriate - for anyone - to award moral superiority as well as sporting success to teams and/or countries on the basis of the latest set of results/last few months behaviour. I have always thought that sort of judgement/comment is as wrong as the sort of behaviour by the Force players highlighted above.

Harry Sorry, did I mention names? And is Corne Krige a current Springbok? When you lose the hangover we can talk again. My point is that there is a clear lack of morality/inhibitions/leadership/lifeskills call it what you like in some quarters of Australian sports. Is it a coincidence it has gone hand in hand with poor results?

Ben, I would rather have our lot of booze-addled immature twits than the eye-gouging, head-stamping "christians" Bakkes Botha and Corne Krige.

I am not in the least surprised that we are seeing Aussie players boozing/abusing/wrecking/drugging/bingeing etc. Sport has been made the de facto religion in Aus. Compare this lot to the Springboks and you see a clear difference in behaviour. This is not to punt any religion but it has surfaced that at least 5 Boks became born again Christians in France (before they won the Cup I might add!)

"The less parochial and thin skinned among ROAR readers" That would be the 6 who "cheered" it I assume. "... my lampooning of “Superfluous 14″ and “Wasted Force” was a quite deliberate attempt to point out how ludicrous it is that Rugby at this level is so full of posture, pretense and deceipt." I think your attempt may have failed. You were however quite successful in pointing out that 'journalists' at this level are full of posture, pretense and deceipt....

Spont on Mike, spot onto nothing… Next time please try and cram more information into less space, perhaps we need another explanation on how the rocket gets to space…. :) For some one who cares so little you have gone through a lot of effort. Remarkable path to follow in exposing us poor rugby followers. You must feel very chuffed at this stage, now if you could please turn off the PC look out the window and imagine having a life.

The less parochial and thin skinned among ROAR readers have already noted that my article was certainly not a general spray at the Western Force, however my lampooning of "Superfluous 14" and "Wasted Force" was a quite deliberate attempt to point out how ludicrous it is that Rugby at this level is so full of posture, pretense and deceipt. Substance always strugles for a mention I am delighted that there has been such passionate comment from various quarters because that will ultimately be the salvation of Rugby if there is to be one ... people who are really passionate about the game and passionate in their demands that the eco-rats who currently have the vote don't completely stuff it by pandering to all that is inherently corrupt about cheque book sport; administrators, players and sponsors. Keep up the passion people and let the administrators, coaches and players all feel the heat!

In another post Sheekey said the players aren't sorry for what they have done, they are sorry they got caught. I think that is the nub - it's a culture, and one that is and will remain perpetuated until such time as administrators and fans act to stop it. It's not just the Force, or even just rugby, it is endemic. Take a young man, throw a bunch of cash at him so he can buy fast cars and aford lots of the best alcohol and guess hwat, 9 times out of 10 he will go off the rails. To counter that you have to have the community and culture in place to mentor them through, teach them, guide them and nuture them. All this is missing from professional sport in Aus right now (and take it from me, the problem is just as rife in the USA, but it is better covered up somehow). This is where the ARU and all other RUs in Aus (and NZ, SA, UK etc) could make a difference - introduce programs to provide appropriate cultural guidance, use a reward system AND a penalty system and bring these y9oung men a sense of purpose, of club, of the collegiate - a true sense of belonging. Sadly, like most ideologies, this will not come to pass. Get used to it - this is the future of the professional arm of our treasured sport. We don't have a "baggy green" culture like Cricket does (although they still produced Warnie).

So Burgs... What's your point? :) I have been all over this world, except America and ill share with you my view... Lately I am surprised at the amount of trouble makers surfacing. This is my job I stuff up, I get fired. In the UK and in South Africa, who play similar sports to AUS, they don’t experience such a high number of "trouble makers". I don’t know why, but I see them on TV, the Ben Cousins, Fava's and Tuqiri's and I wonder if they really regret as they say they do? They are seen as gods and rockstars and as gods they live. The trend needs to change as it is picking up speed. They are not rockstars nor Gods they are professionals doing a job. If I get pissed in my office, snort some coke and hurt animals I will be fired. They are not sorry because they know by next week no one will remember and they can just do it all over again, probably will be months before they catch anyone again.

Thanks for the comments Burgs. No one is suggesting that they have not enjoyed a drink with their mates and I still smell the liniment and have a beer after, but the difference is that none of my mates, and no one else I know of has deliberately mistreated an animal. Stop the wowser bashing and look to the overall behaviour, have a drink by all means but remain responsible for your behaviour and remain respectful of others.

Yes yes, differentiation between pro and amateur sport, but they all start from the same base. The day that alcoholics and players with drinking problems are removed from teams and leadership roles is the day that sport in Australia disappears. I seriously wonder if any of you lot laying the boots in have even smelt liniment in the sheds since school days, fair dinkum! Why not really take it up to society and start at the source, call for all bars in sports clubs to be banned, drinking after training in the change rooms with your mates banned, sponsorship from alcohol companies banned, raffle prizes including alcohol banned, alcohol at awards dinners and season launches banned... To paraphrase one of the cleanest scalps to have been out West recently, one Chris Judd, "We are not role models, we play sport". Now that he is back in the safe haven of the East Coast I'm guessing WA can't claim him as an example though... I dunno about high horses but there seems to be a fair degree of clear felling of tall poppies west of the Great Dividing Range going on on the Roar these days from the "wise men" in the East. Far better to hold up great clean living men like Alan Jones as "role models" for society...

GIGST - Fair enough. I do have a very fine Clydesdale horse. I did read your reply, and I understand he has already been punished, I just disagree with the sentence. As to his guilt, surely his own admission is enough. I agree with your assessment of the the media. It was/is over the top, but in this case enough is enough. It isn't just about Scott Fava, it's much larger than that, and maybe it take the media spotlight to change it. All these players like the Andrew Johns to Lote Tuquri and the more recent Rottnest incident, they have all apologised for their behaviour, they admit to their "problems", only because they got caught. Would they feel the same way the morning after if no one noticed? I doubt it. If Andrew Johns didn't get caught in England, do you think he would have owned up to it? Bob - my comments truly were not an attack on WA and its rugby, and you are right Henjak and Sheppard misdemeanour were made when they were at the Brumbies and the Waratahs, I also mentioned Dunning and Sailor, both Waratahs. It's just that the most recent occurrence of bad behaviour is from two players who are playing at the Force. I don't care where they are from. You probably are right that the culture originated in the eastern states, but I think it is totally national now, and in every sport Rugby NRL, AFL and Cricket.

I agree with Bob and Temba's comments

It seems to be Australian sports overall, what is going on? It seems to be getting worse, AFL, Union, league... Drugs and bad behavior, are we seeing the death of professionalism in Aus, are we making them out to be rock stars instead of sportsman?

BTW - Think you could add a "Boo it" option alongside of the "Cheer it"

Nick > "This is not an attack on a Western Force Player from Eastern States fans" Mike Logan > "the Superfluous 14 team Wasted Force" No - it is yet another dig at the whole team. If you're going to comment on the state of Rugby in Australia, why alienate such a large percentage of teh fan base by starting with a comment like that? Given the Western Force is only 2 years old and boasts only a couple WA players, I think you can lay the blame on a negative player culture squarely at the feet of eastern states unions. That being said - two other 'problem' players that you mention, namely Henjak and Shepherd, have been pillars of society since heading West and the player culture they are attempting to build at the Western Force is surely responsible for this.

My apologies Nick, My high horse was probably a response to the fact that the only player you named and shamed was indeed a member of the Western Force team when you actually defended the actions of Wendell Sailor by suggesting that his offence was in some way less abhorrent than Fava's. I was obviously mistaken, but when you post inflammatory statements such as this, you must expect that they might get misinterpreted at some time. I would also suggest that you actually read my reply before responding, you will note that I made repeated mention of the fact that Scotty's actions are not endorsed by the public, and that he was punished, but you ignored that, I called that you look for actual evidence before hanging a player based solely on media hyperbole, but you didn't seem interested in commenting on that either. Surely if there are high horses involved, the feeling is mutual! Agree to Disagree?

GIGST, Emma and slomo, This is Scott Fava's 3rd alcohol related incident in what? 12-18 months? Ok, so he might have been punished within the guidelines available but when does the Force wake up to the fact that the man has an alcohol problem and take action? I would warrant that there would be many other times when he binged on the booze in front of team mates but no incidents have resulted. My point is when does the club wake up that one of their players has an alcohol problem and may need treatment? What else does that say about the culture within the team? Where were the leadership group pulling him into line? Why did the Force allow so much alcohol that Fava could drink all afternoon? Come on guys, this is supposed to be a professional football club that is high profile. How professional is it to not know that one of your players binge drinks? How professional is it to then let that player have unlimited recourse to alcohol? It smacks of very poor decisions and actions by all connected with the Force who were on Rotnest at the time. As for Fava .... 3 strikes and your out .... at the very least he should have been fined and suspended from playing indefinitely until he had sorted out his alcohol abuse.

Get off your elevated equine GIGST. This is not an attack on a Western Force Player from Eastern States fans. These are comments by rugby fans who are abhorred by the actions of, at least two, representative rugby players. It's not just about Scott Fava, it's also about Matt Henjak in South Africa, Lote Tiquiri and Matt Dunning with a couple of Broncos players, it's about Wendell Sailor, it's about some Brumbies players and a taxi ride in Sth Africa, It's about Cameron Sheppard walking over the roofs of car outside the Sydney Casino. I was not excusing Wendell Sailors actions. He was caught and punished. I feel Scot Favas actions were worse, and demand similar punishment. If Wendell took cocaine and was responsible for animal cruelty,as well as being endangered, and all in front of a crowd telling him not to, I would want the book thrown at him. Alcohol IS a drug, and in this case it WAS abused. I don't differentiate between the two You say he was punished "within the guidelines" for alcohol offence. Firstly the guidelines are in my opinion wrong, and secondly this offence is not just about being pissed, it's what he did when pissed, what responsibilities he has as a player representing his state and country, the fact he did this in front of the general public, who were telling him not to makes it worse, and what animal cruelty says about his character. Look I'm no Kevin Rudd, I've been pissed on more than one occasion, but I have never felt the urge to swing an animal above my head and throw 3 metres. As to his guilt, Scott Fava admitted to throwing one of the protected marsupials by the tail, up to five metres, and handling other quokas. You don't think eye witnesses are evidence of his crime. I think the protected species here are football players. I have more respect for Wendell Sailor than Scott Fava. re Emma, I don't know about the ".004" incident, But this time Scott Fava admitted to binge drinking problem. He had been drinking all afternoon. I would presume to comment on what a sponsor company should think. The sponsors are the financial backbone of the running of the team and the payment of the players, thus if this is in jeopardy, through pressure put upon from this sponsors, the management will take the incident more seriously. And I for one would like to put a bit of pressure on the sponsors. And I beg to differ, the highest possible fine is sacking from the team. re slomo, you're right there are bigger problems in this world, but rugby is one my escapes from it. So when a couple of dickheads totally get it wrong, the only voice I have is through the computer keyboard and the internet. I have no say in the way any of the unions run themselves, so here is where I'll speak, like it or not. And as for ivory towers you speak of, I wish! Try being retrenches twice in two years and then come to me about job security.