Football codes crowd attendance - AFL leads the way

To say that the AFL is the only sport in Melbourne ignores the fact that it houses the Narional tennis centreand the National Swimming Centre, not to mention the Melbourne Cup, and largest Australian cricket crowds on record.....and much more

John Ryan, didn't realize Sydney had a team in the VFL in 1969.

My Tv figure should be 100,000 my mistake,by the way the AFL GF figures in Sydney remain Static and Brisbane the were down 48000

I suggest you check before you say things has AFL grown, depends whose figures you believe,on TV rateings no, most AFL games in Sydney, Brisbane the answer is no,unless Swans or Lions feature, thosegames get 10000 if they are lucky,local AFL in Sydney 1000 or less some times a bit more,but AFL was beaten by a repeat of Iron Chef on SBS in Sydney just recently. Juniors, whose figures,if they do was has been rumored and vist a school and do a show then go and claim the school as an AFL school who are they kidding,I think Masters put that one to bed some time ago,I think Masters has more credibility that Michael C and Rebt or whatever put together. I think you may also find the the Swans lost crowds,members(I read their best crowds where in 1969),they are also back on the AFL teat as they lost money again,the Lions also lost crowds and members so I am told,so one would assume that in another 25 years if this online forum is still going you will write again saying the same things

Midfielder 2008 Stats? John Ryan - well we are 25 years along from where you first heard it, has AFL grown in NSW since then? Has it grown in QLD since then? I would say yes, and it continues to grow. The Sydney Swans are not the only team of interest to those who reside in NSW. You may be right in saying Cricket is our national sport, but AFL is our national football code. And when talking about a dismal 19,000 + crowd due to bad weather - in 2007 only 3 NRL teams had a better AVERAGE than that and not by much for two of them.

Jo How long did it take to find this thread ......... are you wanting MC noble prize for research

I,m not sure if you have ever read much of Rebecca Wilson's columns, but there are 2 things you should know,1 she is not a credible journalist which I will agree with you on, 2, she is the most rabid AFL supporter in Sydney,also you said weather was a major factor,funny how weather only affects AFL crowds in Sydney but is not suppose to do the same to NRL crowds. AFL will take over Sydney, Hmmm where have I heard that before,thats right when the Swans arrived,its been there 25 yrs now and is still from what I can gather sucking on the AFK money supply. AFL is the leading code in VIC,WA,SA,it is largely ignored in NSW and QLD,Cricket is the National Sport not AFL i,m afraid l

Has anybody done the stats for this year, if so can you send them to Rebecca Wilson at the Daily Telegraph (Sydney paper of course)? What happened to credible journalism, she clearly supports NRL, which is fine and her choice, but as a journalist if she ever wants respect she needs to do her research and provide an overview of the entire year, not pick out a single game where attendance was down (weather was a major factor). AFL will take over in NSW, it may take another 10 - 20 years but it will happen. And as others have already posted here, AFL is already the leading code in many of our states, it is our National Sport.

To Midfielder, How on earth can AFL be peaking. You obviously love your stats so look at the % gain in attendance figures. The game is still growing at a great clip (10% over last year) and it's been going 150 years. The A-leagues been going 3 years and the only growth if got this year was from Auckland going out and Wellington comming in, Oh and yeah Becks ofcourse. With the AFL expanding into the Gold Coast and Western Sydney, it will only grow further. P.S. For those of you who refer to AFL as from 'the southern states', grab a map and have a look. You will find that AFL is played in southern, western and northern states as well as being the most prominent sport in southern NSW. I hope i have enlightened some out there.

Please do some research on the number of people watching the game on TV including regional areas. This will reflect the reat popularity of the foot ball codes Australia Wide.

Just some stats for you made soccer and fumble ball supoorters. NRL is the most watched football code on TV if you include regional areas. And this is despite the fact that the code is not in every major city in Australia. Imagine what the situation will be when the NRL go back to Perth which will happen. Of cause one town soccer teams have big crowds because there isn't that many games to watch each weekend and the games are not covered on commercial TV where the NRL gets satuation coverage and huge ratings. Wake up boys NRL rules and it always will.

A little secret - I loved the North Melb power period of the '90s. Largely, because it was built on their huge success through the '80s in the Under 19s (under Dennis Pagan, who returned to coach the seniors in the '90s). Through the 80s we'd followed the development, watched the entire day of GFs on tele from the morning with the Under 19s to spot that young kid called Carey who looked good in his age group. Alas, the AFL wound up the Under 19s in the early 90s. Replaced by the TAC Cup 'elite' under 18s comp. (which in my mind puts kids in contact with their manager before their club - in the business world, that's probably fine - in the footy world, it makes it mercenary - - like,...., soccer - - and thus, loses a point of distinction). The Reserves were wound up later on - and now we 'feed' out players to 'feeder' clubs in the VFL. The Swans and Brissie have their own 'work arounds'. At any rate. The whole notion of 'home grown' has been eroded to head down the US draft model. Which has many up sides. BUT.....the loss of recruiting 'zones' takes away an element such as the 3 great kids who played juniors together at East Keilor, then progress to Essendon 3rds and up to the 1's.....now, one might end up in Perth, one in Brissie and one at Hawthorn......the other obvious thing being the distribution of brothers. In the past, the Swannies had the Danihers (who they sold to Essendon) and the Morwoods. Now, the example of the Selwood 4 boys being across 3 states. Thankfully, there's still the (watered down) father-son rule. Theory of course was not every club could or would develop their zones as well as they perhaps should have - so, that was taken out of their hands. so - 'home grown' is diluted into the mix. However, today I hear that Australians should be interested in a Middlesborough vs someone game because Schwarzer and Carney are involved......well, if we should care about that, then, should a Qld person be able to watch north melb and identify Pratt, Hale and Urquhart as local qld products......and care? At any rate, I guess having 2 clubs in the AFL in the state would ensure a little extra press, a bit more exposure and perhaps a bit more recognition of local kids done well......and, importantly, it would probably result in a doubling of locals being rookie listed. The in-exact science of it all though is that a James Hird was number 79 draft pick. You just don't know who will defy expectations. Thankfully, there are still 'PLAYERS' who defy athletic expectation and excel because, it's sometimes more about poise and nouse than straight line speed. Some of the best players are being found via the rookie list, that's a key at least to giving kids a chance to impress in QLD and NSW - they've also brought in the scholarship program as well. See how that goes. ---- anyway, agreed, the Swans have taken 20-25 years. Effectively an entire generation, you need a critical mass of kids to have grown up knowing only of the Swans being there. The Lions are interesting, in a sense the Fitzroy merger to bring the 'Lion' logo and the better jumper, better song, and a sense of history - - it seems to have worked quite well. It may well be that the envisaged outcome is get 17th and 18th clubs up and going, whilst assuming that within 5-10 years, they'll 'merge' (absorb) a couple of Melbourne clubs - and suddenly may yet end up with the Gold Coast Saints (an oxymoron?) and the West Sydney Roos and return then to a 16 team comp. What I'd wonder though, license fees, it was one thing to charge a huge fee in years gone by to the strongholds of Adelaide and Perth, but, I reckon you wouldn't be charging numbers 17 and 18. O-S players in the HAL. Certainly true. And NRL get islanders. AFL clubs are a conservative bunch, but, finally the PNG kids will be & are getting a chance, there's a couple of fine prospects coming through the QLD system who may yet be draftable in 2 years. I guess, what would be good, and in what time frame? Maybe 5 a year from PNG, Sth Afr and NZ? within 10 years. The US is interesting, there's a lot, and huge amount of wasted talent in America. US footy is in a growth phase, and in Canada, with about 330 million folk in US and Canada, the AFL would love just to even get a cute little niche of say, 0.01% of the population, y'know, about 30K participation. Doesn't sound like much when you put it that way!!! Ah, who knows. Still, as I say, so far the AFL hasn't really put money anywhere except into Sth Africa - it's still just cool watching this international development that has been progressing and seemingly gaining momentum. Worldfootynews.com sure is NOT an AFL plant website. At any rate - for a reality check, all we ever need do is track how Maffra go against the Kiwis. NZ won the 2005 int cup, they've played Maffra a couple of times (Maffra, near Sale, voted VCFL team of the year a couple of years back - and a fine example of developing local boys rather than buying success - I guess it's a big ask, in that http://www.nzafl.co.nz/News/MaffratoplayFalcons/tabid/240/Default.aspx shows how Maffra have clobbered them each time ('05 & '06). We're in reality still talking about standard (of the internationals) of play somewhere around D grade amo's - and i.e. my local club - - and, given that it's not soccer, when coming up against a well drilled team like Maffra - the results are obvious.

MC A simple question could either Sydney or Brisbane play only locals and be top four material. The storm would be luckly to find a local player, capable of playing NRL standard Each A-league team could, in the future sports market the local boy done good will be an important marketing tool in the right hands. I believe a great part of the success of both the Central Coast Mariners & Newcastle jets, support wise is the high number of local players. Its is an under the rader thing, but does effect the how the non hardcore view football teams. In local community centres and regions locals doing good assist codes in creating an attachment to a team. Westy Your point on quality players is well made, a huge advantage to the A-league is a huge pool of overseas players to fill gaps if no locals meet standard.

No issue with this Michael. But really it is not enough for immediate success and in terms of QLD's population there is a long way to go but is in the right direction. But this is the real discussion not the hype about the international nonsense overseas. THere is not an argument about the AFL's ability to get a Gold Coast team going and in being successful just about the real cost of achieving this goal. Some of my Melbournian friends seriously underestimate these costs. There projections I think are light on. The Gold Coast success may precipitate the demise of a Melbourne club. I do not rejoice in that but only the Sydney Swans knows the life and death struggle and time necessary to survive in a very competitive environment. The Afl threw money at the Kangaroos and still they would not go becase you and I know it would be the end of their Melbourne existence in the long term. The Swans are lobbying against a western sydney team for at upto 8 years. If the Kangaroos pull of the impossible and actually get backing which other Melbourne team goes Western Bulldogs, Melbourne , ST kilda, Hawthorn. ? IT may be none but these are the real issues. By the way the quality of Sydney AFL Juniors is presently generally poor to average. This is a problem. I like my sport Michael including a good AFL game You are not getting the right athletes and more needs to be invested. The Commission knows this its just some Melbourne club CEOs have little comprehension . I agee with you that the NRL have more potential in Perth.

Please note : 2004 AFL draft, 3 from QLD, 2005, 6 from QLD, 2006 - known as a 'superdraft' for depth of quality, 11 from QLD. Only a couple of all those players to Brisbane Lions. So, a whole team of QLD kids in 3 years has been dispersed into the competition. 2007 was a lesser year for QLD recruits. Maybe QLD folk yearn for a SoO clash to put their home grown talent on display before them. Last year there were over 40 listed and rookie QLD boys. Effectively an entire 'club list' of QLD boys. Some, like Jamie Charman, Jason Akermanis, Nick Riewoldt are established stars. Others, like Brett Voss, Daniel Pratt and Josh Drummond are underrated but highly effective and certainly on the rise players like Andrew Raines, David Hale, Sam Gilbert. No lack of quality in just that group - and yet most QLD folk probably haven't heard of more than a couple of them. I tell you what, in the NRL, I don't think I'm missing 20 let alone 40 Victorians or even a sum total of Vic, SA and WA players. In Union, what, is it Weary Dunlop and Ewan McKenzie from Victoria? Basically, the AFL has a better base in QLD than either Rugby code does outside of NSW and QLD. And the thing about QLD and NSW is, that, it's actually easier to get established because there are more of these good size regional centres, such as Townsville, Cairns, etc. In Vic, the main large centres are Bendigo, Ballarat and the Latrobe Valley, but even so, they don't equate to a Townsville. Aust Footy has a Townsville league, granted, only 5 teams, but importantly there's good junior structures. There's small leagues around Mt.Isa, Mackay, Darling Downs, Capricornia, Cairns, Bundy-Wide Bay - so, there's fair exposure in the regionals - and, a lot of clubs/comps have been going since the 50s. It's not all overnight. So - it'll be interesting to monitor. The AFL has certainly pushed funds in recently, and Auskick is probably the best established, funded and run of such programs. The ability to retain the kids into Under 9s and beyond - - similar task as faces soccer. Reality, just so long as the kids keep up some level of sports. btw - re. grounds, AFL is played on cricket ovals remember, non overlapping seasons, exclusive access during the footy season. 17th license, I support league expansion to 18 clubs. Alas, the self interest of the existing 16 will probably get in the way. Hopefully an Eddie McGuire can lobby for the good of the game. A game each week in each of the QLD and NSW markets is key for the AFL as a promise of future expanded ratings/esp for PayTV too. Although, it's still a case that the AFL value proposition at present is the ability to give Fox access to SA and WA which are 'under-subscribed' - - obviously then, if the NRL could afford to try to push into that market, then their value proposition might improve. However, they have a heap of groundwork still to do.

Midfielder I am aware that the A league is played in summer but their will be overlap and Galaxy is keen to have current district footballt finals played there in winter to cement local connection. The point is the costs of ground and up keep will be shared. The AFL will need to subsidise for an extended period. There will be no Rugby league super league war to assist them this time around. Success may come but it will come at a cost to some Melbourne club. You see its not only the money there is a limit to the number of quality players that the population of the southern states can produce. For all Sydney's success they are still dependent on the southern states for players. The Gold Coast needs more than the lone ST kilda forward it has produced. IN New South Wales Wagga has produced more Quality players than the 5 million people of Sydney.Shoosh do not tell anyone they will rattle of the names of some limited number of journeyman . This may change in the future but at the current time Afl does not get the best athletes in Queensland or New South Wales except in some southern regional centres. you see mums like their kids playing soccer football but they also get a good slice of elite athletes in New south Wales. Go to an state athletics finals and ask how many play AFL.in New South Wales. Not many. Mums also like their kids playing AFL in Sydney as it has a mistaken perception of less contact.Iits just to be cruel they are often the leftovers. Now before anyone gets upset there are exceptions and these kids offer a great future fan base but at the current time they produce a very small handful of reasonable players. I am not sure yet that the Melbourne clubs will all vote for a Gold Coast club. The commission needs 12 out of 16 I can think of four teams that may not be keen including the Swans unless a deal is done postponing a Western Sydney team.or other special arrangementsfor others. Notwithstanding the hype All is not well in the AFL wonderland. Trouble is brewing in Mexico. When Frank Farina was Coach of the then Brisbane Strikers he was queried as to whether Queenslanders would turn up to the grand final. He replied of couse they would! Are you sure the doubtful reporter queried? Very. I am a Queensland wog.and most of my team are Queenslanders. Frank was proven correct with a record crowd and 10000 outside. I just do not see many Queenslanders in a Gold Coast AFLside in 2010/11.

Calling all stato's, WESTY, MC, Millster& OTHERS Stat's unlimited. The following link has all the major European football leagues and in England most of there divisions. If you like stats then this is for you http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/attend.html

Midfielder don,t you listen to the ads. Its always sunny in Queesland!

Westy The beach think you talk of, how will this effect a winter played sport.

Its a Melbourne weekend you do not really go to the beach the harbour, no you eat theatre or go to the footy. it has two of the best grounds in Australia with an unmatched transport system that moves fans in and out without creating frustration. No other Australian city is near it although Brisbane is improving. It will be interesting how the AFL will go on the Gold Coast.There the beaches and their socal context plays a huge role something not quite available on a ready basis in Melbourne.Plus you will have a powerful consortium of the NRL's Titans and the A League's Galaxy playing out of the same 25000 purpose built stadium Football one weekend , League the next sharing ground expenses and some staff and both genuine Gold Coast teams with a large number of local representatives. playing each weekend at this stadium. I am not saying the delayed AFL team will not be successful but there will be a more sizeable drain on the Commission's resources than they comprehend and for a much longer time frame . The difficulty for the Commission is that this will be at the cost of reductions of funding in current real terms to more than one Melburne AFL team. The AFL Gold Coast team will require long term central funding whereas the Titans and Galaxy are privately funded and despite the Commission's very optimistic projections and that is all they are some suspect the strategy is to in the long term spell doom or forced relocation of a current Melbourne club. Maybe not the Kangaroos. There are other Afl clubs that effectively run at a loss heavily subsidised by the Commission.. The resources the Afl will directly have to pour into the Gold Coast have been seriously underestimated.