AFL: Australia is not enough

re SoO - 70K (free tickets or not) was a good turn up (btw - I wish I knew where to find these 'free' tickets when they're floating around). I watched it at home in the end - - too sore after footy that day - hard ground and much ice required on knees (the whole R.I.C.E thing). There was zero 'opposition' support (discernable) on the tele. Channel 10 was crap. I think they'd turned down the crowd noise anyway, and kept wanting to focus on talking to the coaches and their super crappy supposedly pioneering umpire cams etc - - what a load of amateur rubbish - - perhaps tv broadcast rights are gauging too great a chunk out of them if that's the best they can come up with. That was just sheer embarrassment. I could imagine - at the ground - the atmosphere would've been a whole lot different to what the tv conveyed - - i.e. partisan support for the Vics by all these folk in different club jumpers (but, support their 'club' reps in the Dream Team) - - - everyone just holding their breath for no major injuries. I was happy at home to see Boomer Harvey fly the flag for North Melb, I thought he did some very important work, and was a nice tangible link to the last SoO game and is still the reigning E.J.Whitten medalist. Alas, on that front - Channel 10 let us down by NOT showing the presentations - - some twit at the control panel in Sydney stuffed up. Alas - not sure ALL the players should've swapped jumpers - - although, I gather they all personally had 2 jumpers on the night - one for each half, so, that effectively allowed them to swap jumpers. The game play - - it was amazing, the skill, the general lack of turn overs - - the end to end plays - - and Adam Goodes was apparently just blown away by Richo on the wing - - Goodes was very pleasantly surprised that the DT's had pushed Richo forward for the 2nd qtr - 'cos Goodes was struggling to keep up.

Red B, Yes you are entirely correct in saying that the AFL's main game is expansion in Australia. I simply enjoy speculating about what will be some ways down the track. Some people prefer to focus on the present. It is interesting to see the AFL put funding into running Auskick in South Africa, Samoa and China. Personally, I think they should put their dollars where there is already some organic growth. So I find it a little presumptuous of the AFL to fund China ahead of other countries. Surely PNG deserves this funding more than China does. It kind of reminds me of the ICC. The ICC have give millions to China, and at the same time denied Kenya test status. The argument that the ICC make against Kenya is that their cricket grounds are not good enough for test matches. If the ICC simply gave the money to Kenya instead of China, this issue would be solved. All major sporting bodies have their eye on Chinese dollars and will behave unethically to get a hold of it. I guess this exposes my criticism of FIFA, since the AFL deserve some criticism here too. But the AFL are right to fund the countries where there is organic growth, and give them every chance of expanding as much as possible. As for the GAA, I think they should turn professional. This still won't stop players taking an offer from an AFL team if it is higher.

Paul, Joe, For me the AFL's push into GC and W Sydney is the number one expansion priority, they will support some international development, namely South Africa, PNG, but little else in the short to medium term. The AFL knows it has to expand not only its revenue base (TV deal) buts its player pool as other codes potentially take a slice of VIC, SA & WA juniors. This is not happening to a great extent now as soccer junior numbers for example have always been big, however the AFL realises it needs to broaden its base. Its basic business strategy, expand or competitors will fill the void, grow strong and then expand into your patch. Thus international expansion is nothing more than a side show to the real game for AFL, that is Aust expansion, two teams in each major capital city (population block). The real interest for AFL fans is the organic growth in footy overseas that is happening without any substantial support from the AFL. These expats are like missionaries spreading the reilgion to various parts of the world - at the moment they are blokes looking for a kick and a beer afterwards. The junior programs in Canada and the US show more structure than a casual frothy with some mates. Interesting stuff. Re GAA, the Irish are very concerned at the threat of the professional AFL game, there may even be parallels with rugby league and union, whilst union was still amatuer. I do not predict the demsie of GAA just a drain of player base unless the GAA looks at creating a professional league. Its not a rusted on belief, but as each International Rules match plays out and more and more AFl talent scouts head to where the little green men roam, the GAA's angst heightens. Redb

In Melbourne press today, article by Rod Curtis | May 11, 2008 the last bits reproduced below differ from posts above. My guess is Sheehan would know his stuff. http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/pacific-nations-bemoan-afl-neglect/2008/05/10/1210131343495.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1 Sheehan said the AFL could not ignore its "massive chance" to grow the game in South Africa. "We talk about the 48 million (population) for a start, of which 38 million are black people, who, due to apartheid and various things, have been denied sporting opportunity … The South Africans have a natural flair for our type of game, and they love sport. Soccer doesn't invest a lot in its junior development, so there is a clear opportunity." Sheehan said that 35,000 people in 32 countries were now playing Australian football overseas.

Joe, Maybe it is not necessary for the AFL to expand internationally. But usually when something does not expand, it shrinks, things never stay the same. Perhaps the AFL have plans for international expansion, foremost for the sake of recruitment. As they plan to add 17th and 18th teams, people are complaining that this will weaken the player pool too much and thus lower the standard of competition. But if there are more players from overseas, then this increases the player pool, and will re-adress the balance each time the AFL expand on the continent. I think it is safe to say that the AFL do have hopes to be the number one code in every state. Perhaps the AFL are the biggest instigator of the footy wars in Australia in modern times, although the FFA have certainly stepped up their challenge in the last few years. We will probably be debating these issues as long as they exist in the market place.

Dave, Yes, AFL is a club game and has always been. I guess there's not a lot of point denying that in the short term. I for one, still hope there can be a carnival of some sort in the future, even if it means stretching the season a little every four years. But, the two week plan has some merits. It's a pity that there are 3 strong states, when we really need four. I guess this is where the idea of divisions could work, but then that would require the event to happen more than every four years. I just don't like the idea of a combined NSW/ QLD/ TAS side. That's just as bad as the Dream Team. Perhaps this is why the AFL just found it easier to go with the International Rules against Ireland, for some representative footy each year. Perhaps it will have to wait a little longer until QLD and NSW can come up with some competition.

Paul Thank you for your feedback. I agree that the Roar is best used for robust but courteous debate where we can agree to disagree. No need for the apology as no offence was taken. It has been my experience that in blogging on Roar I learn more about myself, other contributors & various events/sports. I do not dispute any of the facts as you have presented them & it was not my intention to say AFL should not expand internationally. As I have said elsewhere it is understandable that AFL should seek to grow overseas, but I don't think it is essential. Aussie Rules I believe will always be the no. 1 footy code in Aust regardless of what may or may not happen o/s. Look forward to further exchange of views Paul.

Dave, The atmosphere was different but still really good, plenty of support for the Vics - a fairly young crowd. The skills on display were fantastic, nothing better than Judd passing to Goodes who passes to Jono Brown. t The passion was a bit different our first love is for the club, so at times the crowd say the Hawthorn section were secretly hoping Buddy Franklin did well or Cam mooney for Geelong,etc. Club support is still king in AFL. So rather than cheer against these guys the crowd was quieter. However, anytime a Vic got the ball the crowd went nuts. Fevola's mark in the first qtr was a classic that got everyone out of their seat. Its the reason you go to the footy. The roar after the National anthem was vintage MCG, but so to for some great marks, Fevola's several, J Brown, etc and some goal snaps that sent the crowd off. Players really had a crack, good hard footy. re Vic v Dream team - it was the only choice for a one off. re future state games, every 4 years, Vics v SA or WA. That will work. Redb

KB You cant come to Melb without taking in a game of the HAL 4 Champions MV!! In respect of SFC and FL is there such a thing as Salary Cap??? Just cause Chelsea dont have one...SFC do and so will not be able to buy a Championship :) BTW you can have "Moses" although we like to refer to him as "Äverage Grant" :) Midfielder Sorry bout that but it appears KB got hold of it all and, as you can see from his posts above, has taken way too much. Dont think he will be able to get up early in the morning and even if he did there would not be any rejoicing :) Paul Dont think the AFL will ever give over 3 weeks to SOO, certainly not in season and it is doubtful too many players would be interested post season. IMO 2 weeks in season is realistic. SA, Vic, WA and East Coast (including Tassie) Week 1 = 2 x semis (eg WA vs Vic and SA vs East Coast) Week 2 = 2 winners play off for championship at MCG. Simple and short but 3 meaningful games. NSW, Tassie, NT and Queensland are no where near strong enough for stand alone teams.

Koala Bear, I'm glad to hear that you are saving for your ticket to Melbourne, good show. As for me, I am researching all sides of the 1858, 1859, 1866, 1877 debate over Aussie Rules. I will continue to have an open mind. I hope that you can too. Paul.

Midfielder, You know I am right it will just be a matter of time :) Dave, Chelsea for the double :) Good night Lards :) Dave if you hear a big bang in the morning coming from the North don't be alarmed it will only be the champagne cork.... :) ~~~~~~ KB

Hi Joe, Yes, I have to admit that I too was being provocative and picking a fight. But after debating on here for a little while now, I can see that is a fruitless path to go down. So I have already retracted my approach to out and out trash talk soccer. It is far better if I, and others can find a healthy way to debate. I have apologised previously for unfounded comments I made against Football-soccer, but if some missed those, then I am sorry to you aswell. Joe, your original post seemed to have a swipe at AFL supporters on two counts: 1) We claim Aussie Rules as the truly Australian sport. 2) If we insist on number 1, then we should avoid number 2, which is to seek to expand the game internationally. For those of us, from the southern states, we do attach a great deal of pride, tradition and patriotism to the game of Aussie Rules. You may not have spelt it out completely, but it is important for us to respect the traditions of NSW and QLD. NSW and QLD undoubtedly have their stronger traditions of Rugby Union and League than they do of Aussie Rules, even though Aussie Rules was still played in both states from very early on. So it is natural for those of us from the southern states to want to share the game with others around the world. When we are in other countries we love to have a kick and even a game when ever we can. Some of this enthusiasm does spill over to others and even catches on to have local roots. But as much as respect is shown in other parts of the world, it is important to show this same respect in NSW and QLD. I think there is a way that the traditional Australian codes can co-exist. You went on to say: "I don’t think anything is about to unfold – or ever will. I fear that my AFL loving fellow Australians are experiencing a false dawn. Because after 150 years (or so we’re told) aussie rules football has failed to conquer NSW and Qld let alone planet Earth." First of all Joe, the reason that Aussie Rules did not expand in the early years, was because Australia was a little backwater of the British Empire at the end of the world, practically on the next planet. Nothing out of Australia was going to influence the world. Much of the world had never even heard of Australia until the 1956 Olympics. So it isn't really a fair crack to say we have already had 150 years of opportunities to spread our game. As far as conquering anything is concerned, perhaps that is not the way we should be talking. We are talking about traditions and culture here. For either the Rugby or Aussie Rules traditions to be lost from Australia would be a real shame. So let's not talk of conquering. As far as international expansion is concerned, once again, we are not talking of conquering the world, but rather of healthy expansion of the recruiting pool. Just a few figures: 2004 registered players: NZ: 10 000 PNG: 9 000 South Africa: 700 Samoa: 246 2008 registered players: NZ: 16 000 (very healthy growth) PNG: 30 000 (extremely rapid growth) South Africa: 10 000 (astronomical growth). Samoa: 4000 + (rapid growth) I think we can look forward to a time not too far away when there will be a lot of recruitment for the AFL from the Oceania region and South Africa. This may not be world domination, but it is international expansion. Otherwise, how would you define it?

Paul, I'm going to start saving as from tomorrow for my trip to Melbourne... :) Dave, I don't agree, Sydney FC are the club most likely to take out the FIFA world club Championship, before MVFC as it is written in the scrolls, says our billionaire owner Mr Frank Lowy. The next Manager in line will be ex Chelsea's manager "Moses" (as he likes to refer to him as)... "the challenge" creating history will soon be completed, after the Chelsea double, then after, "Moses" wants to aim a bit higher, when his present mission is completed i.e. after knocking over the real "Sottish One" and humiliating Manchester United. Frank Lowy and "Moses" will be in deep communique after tomorrow morning. In what it will take to achieve this end.. As it has been reported; Roman has told Frank, if you want to achieve success, you just have to spend big time to get what you are entitled to; stating with the signing of Aloisi, the highest paid Footballer in Australian history of any code... I am off to bed now to get up early in the morning to rejoice, when Chelsea takes its first step to making club history.. ~~~~~~ KB

"The posting by Joe O’ Sullivan about international expansion was a negative post on the AFL tab, this was provocative of him, he was picking a fight" Paul you are free to draw your conclusions from what I write but do not presume to know my intentions. The Roar moderators determine under which tab submitted articles appear. I seem to recall you telling Roar bloggers that you were waging a campaign against Soccer. Were you being provocative? Were you picking a fight?

KB Are the nurses being kind ....................... do we need to send food packages .............. maybe you need some help .... sorry you do need help ............. Choppers the mega club .................... of something .......maybe ....... bling .................. chopping prehaps ............. or circus type performance of choppers management. I know , I know, choppers mega club of overstatements and under achieverments LOL. KB you should know the true source of power lies a tad further north in the lakes, rivers, beaches, of the Central Coast. PS Dave .......... don't tell you have run out and did not share .......... shame on you ! ! !

Hi Dave, I listened to the game on the internet last night. I remember attending State of Origin games in earlier years. When ever the Big V appears there is always a buzz. But to be playing against a non-representative side is anti-climactic. I don't see how it is fair to leave out WA and SA, from such a celebration. (Although I remain unconvinced that the celebration should actually be this year- I understand the arguments for and against). So, I'm not surprised that there wasn't a full stadium for a game that essentially meant nothing. If there were a carnival every four years with every state represented, then it would carry some weight. Perhaps a good fixture would look like this: Week one: A: SA v NT B: WA v ACT C: VIC v TAS D: QLD v NSW (I know there is an argument for having games that are close to even, but the three main seeds would not play each other in week 1) Week 2 E: Winner A v Winner B F: Winner C v Winner D Week 3 Winner E v Winner F I look forward to the day, no matter how many years off when this carnival can be extended to include teams from South Africa, Papua New Guinea, New Zealand, Samoa, and perhaps more. It might not be a world cup, but it would give AFL supporters the buzz of watching representative footy that means something. Some of these games could of course be scheduled internationally. The tournament could be held in October. A tradition needs to be built up for the prize to really count. Players not selected in the carnival could play an exhibition game or two for their club in less developed areas- I am guessing that Canada and the US will still need some help. Nevertheless, I would have loved to be a the game last night.

Paul Just posted twice re Vic vs Dream Team!!!! No comment from you???

Could we please get back to talking about Aussie Rules, this is an AFL tab. All this talk about soccer..... yawn.....

KB "“the Mega Club” Sydney FC. The most likely Football club in Australia to take out the first FIFA World Club Championship; defeating Manchester United in the Final in Tokyo by the year 2018. After or before the FIFA World Cup Final in Australia, at a revamped rectangle MCG with a 120k audience with no doubt a 2billion TV audience around the world.." As Midfielder once said to me, whatever you're on l have some :) I do like the fact that Man U made the final but SFC??? By that stage you'll be up to your 15 th coach including "The Scottish One" who will no doubt want a crack at the 2nd biggest market in OZ!!!

Redb As l said didn't watch it so my only reference was friends that did and the newspaper. Both siad it was a bit flat and even Michael C referred to same in his post...however l wasn't there so accept your point. A true 150th celebration with all the history behind the AFL/VFL should have more than 70,000 should be 100,000 with meaningful game (IMO the final of a round robin series 3 matches in total Vic,SA, WA and either Eastern Aus team with Tassie or Aboriginal Allstar as 4th team 2 x semis and then winners playoff) BTW How could it be a good game with no Essendon players??