Rugby league vs rugby union is like checkers vs chess

I think they are both great! I prefer domestic League (NRL) and International Union (World Cup, Tri-Nations, etc). Recently they just trialled a hybrid game at University of Sydney which was apparently a great success. If I have it correctly you play Union when your in your own half, and League when your in the oppositions half. Hoping I can get a chance to watch it, I couldn't find it streaming anywhere!

I can't believe this drivel has received so many responses. Maybe I'm a Chinese Checker because I love both games, having played both for many years. It's professionalism and evolution that has made backs bigger and stronger, forwards faster and more mobile in both codes.

I prefer Rugby League but i have always watched international Union Bledisloe or Tri-Nations Lions tours 5 and 6 Nations somehow the ELV's have sped Union up (Rugby League refs speeding up the play the ball) to the extent where everything has to be done a million miles an hour unfortunately like all fast foods if you have too much of a good thing it can either make you very sick or ultimately kill you. Union in the middle too late 80s and into the early 90's was a much better spectacle and much more enjoyable game to watch. Now it seems every five minutes some Official or Tv executive somewhere seems to be tinkering with the rulebook in both League and Union in my view with the underlying aim of eventually creating some sort of hybrid game instead off appreciating Union for Union and League for League by leaving them to further develop separately with changes in either code only being made when absolutely necessary too-many cooks are spoiling this broth.

You're right, union is more complex, but how is that good? I think all you have to do is look at how many fans union can draw to their test matches(which is supposed to be the pinnacle of Australian Rugby and its what they have over league in the present and in the past). Rugby Union won't even take their games to ANZ stadium to fill it with 80 000 fans. Instead they'd rather get a close-to-full-house at the SFS to look more appealing, as was the case about 2 weeks ago with AUS v the barbarians. They went to the SFS. Now, I know all you union heads say, 'you wait till bledisloe' and all that, but why wait. If you love your sport so much, why not go watch it. In my opinion it comes close to the most boring sports I've ever seen(this and soccer). You stand there waiting for a good 2-3 minutes for a scrum to pack and 90 percent of the time the result doesn't change. Also, penalty goals are terrible. Fans are obviously bored stiff waiting for a guy to have a shot at goal, I would be, but I'm sure there is always that fan who will sit there on the edge of their seat biting their nails waiting for that kick, I suppose that could describe those union diehards..... League on the other hand, and your right about this to some extent, with less contrast between positions, but again, I can't see this as a bad thing. Having a front rower who can take it to the line, step and offload for another front-rower through a gap is great to watch. And this guy Ian or whatever saying that union is dominately defensive. Tell me that's not because the defense fits about 8 or 9 people in the space of 20m. If the attack was smart and skillfull at all they'd spread it fast. Not once have I seen a cross-field kick for a flying winger like it is in league. One last thing, I and all my mates usually 'quote' league players. eg. when your going up for a bomb you yell- folauuuu!!!! when you do a massive step youd say benji!! etc. None of the poeple i know who exclusivel play union say- MORTLOCK!!!! or GITEOU!!!!!! just doesn't happen. the popularity isn't there.

you must be a union biatch lol, your an idiot.

And to think I just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading that utter drivel, Ian in NZ has obviously never watched a game of RL in his life, and he mentions the three variations of play in RL as "Pass, Takcle and kick" well isnt that a game of Rugby, either code? sound and fair analysis by Ian Dixon though wise words mate

Well, I have seen a lot of differing comments on this particular discussion, some absurd: "The honest intention to attract TV revenues from the temporary fan (those that watch rugby league, Australian Rules, American football, and football) is commendable, but not at the expense of the ‘true rugby fan’." And some which are fair enough: "Rugby union can be broken down into combinations: frontrow, backrow, loose forwards, the back of scrum, centre-field, back three." To concentrate on the first. RL fans, I have found are not flirtatious with the sport, we are often die-hard fans. I am included in this particular bracket of people. I have actually played the sport in Australia (Proserpine), England (Heworth) and South Africa (St Petersburg). Likewise, I have also played Rugby Union, here in the UK (York) and Australia (Bowen). I respect both games for their different aspects. Rugby Union, defensively superior to RL, without a doubt. RU scrums, I love the power struggle. The multiple choices each player possesses and the co-ordination it requires to get just the right tactics to break a defence, which is constantly chopping and changing. Team work is imperative to an RU team, from protecting the ball carrier to the line-outs. RL has break away players that can individually make a break and score, Union lacks this, but at the same time, this lacking is also a plus for Union as a game. Rugby League, offensively superior to RU, without a doubt, it would explain why RL backs are so sought after in RU, cases in point, Jason Robinson and Lesley Vainikolo, Robbie Paul etc. RL is physically more demanding (impact wise), it is faster, it require more physical skill than RU, except for the Stand off position for example, who requires decision making and the intelligence to break through tough and fast defences. Break away players, Rob Burrow as an example, Leon Pryce, Darren Lockyer, these outstanding players can never be called boring, or uncreative or generic, and whoever does, obviously has not a clue about any game of rugby, let a lone anything else. A lot of the time, and this does not ring true for all Rugby Union fans, they seem to only follow the International scene, and still claim to be rugby fans. Almost every RL fan I have spoken to watch the Super League (UK) and even watch the NRL on SKY. Then still have room to watch the Internationals (RL World Cup in Oct-Nov everyone!!!) and then watch a nice game of Union too. So please, don't consider RL as some lower level sport, because both sports are hard, skilled and certainly exciting sports! Ian from England

Just waiting for John ONeil to make some sort of comment or announcement before Origin 3 next week, always does, Rugby has been trying to ride on the coat tails of League for yrs, shame its still after all their trying the nbr 4 winter sport.

TembaVJ ...just a note for you asc to some of the leaguies passion in Australia.. about Australian Rugby... in Australia the nearly 1o% of NRL's registered players are indigenous, there are muslims, christians , Samoans, Tongans, Melanesians , Lebanese, Arabs,Europeans who play at all levels. It is like its southern counterpart AFL it unapologetically the peoples game and comfortable with that mantle. . Australian Rugby was never really interested in a fair go and Australia's egalitarian ideals. Those early leaguies were not professional. I was brought up that they were ...but the facts for all but e 5 all had fulltime jobs and got boot moey, meal money and travel compensation. and indemnity for medical expenses and time of work. That was it. That was there gripe. !910/20/30/40/50 this is basically all they ever got and they had fulltime jobs. If they had been in France they would still be rugby players. Australian rugby split the code permanently for this and the bastards it appears did cover medical expenses but it depended who you were. They lost the working class where district rugby was very strong not over rule changes as in northern England but over this . Professional rugby in Australia has improved but junior rep rugby is heavily skewed towards old barriers. A better class of people play rugby. Playing in the bush and in Western Sydney you do not know how much this pisses me of and is not challenged . It is insulting and explains Australian rugby's narrow basis. League is and will always be proud to wear the mantle of the people's game. . Australian Rugby has always been uncomfortable developing a wider diverse audience. . Australian rugby is not our nations game and it has forfeited any chance to do so over the last 100 years . This may be difficult for a New Zealander to understand but Australian League is and has always been more inclusive than Australian Rugby. Australian rugby built its name on social barriers and exclusion and the leaguies are still sensitive to any slight to their game that plays on this past social discrimination or slights. Ian have you not ever figured out the ALL Blacks get to play chess against the number 4 footy code in Australia with the smallest number of juniors. We even use to include tag rugby and try rugby to pump the figures up. Your success simply reflects this fact. Sorry to be brutal. Just like when Australia generally thumps New Zealand in Cricket you should on real junior nunbers always thrash us in chess. In Australia the talent flows to checkers AFL and football and the people vote with their feet and tv screens. Have you still not got the message our super 14 pay tv ratings improved but were seriously challenged by league's U/20 competition....those simpletons sure love their checkers. There not like us smart intelligent people who through superior breeding know what is best. Actually in Australia we really do not want them at our chess game because it really is a social event they would not know how to behave and the prices we charge are prohibitive .and this is the best part the game is so complex not even the experts know all the rules anyway.They can watch the Irish Test on TV. Oh silly me free to air only shows checkers because Australian rugby could not get our game on free to air because it rates so well. those poor misguided fools. Over 70% of Australian households have no access to pay tv and in the bush they are under financial pressure and our game does even reach all its own followers. The fewer who see the more exclusive we can make it.Australian rugby would die for the state of origin ratings. I forgot.....that predictable bash barge checkers ....sure looks good....especially when you rewatch recent rugby tests .

I would have thought another good anology is that Rugby union is making love and Rugby league is having sex.

Bob, I get the stats from www.barb.co.uk - the official TV ratings agency for the UK. Maybe I should have qualified it by saying Club RL v Club RU. The SL get better ratings on Sky than the GP amd the Heineken Cup. It fluctuates occasionally but the general trend is more people watch club RL on Sky than club RU.

Steffy, I don't know wher eyou get teh stats about union and league viewers in the UK but all the figures I know of show a very diferent picture. League is strong, and increasingly making some headway in the south, although slow... the live attendance figures are very much in favour lof Union, and the TV figures are too... remember tehre are up to 6 or 8 union games shown live over a weekend, plus S14, and usually only two league games... so the choice is also greater for union. Player numbers are also very much in unions favour, with total male players numbered 1,182,602, and over 11,000 female, compared to 27,000 league players. League is popular, but is probably in 4th, behinf soccer, union, and cricket.

"they are now challenging RU on the pay channel. Rugby League gets far more viewers than union on the pay channel in the UK

Throwing stats around without evidence to back them, will 60% of the time sound good but often they will make you look like a fool. I think you will find that League can only compete at club/state/provincial level as the international version is only shared by 3 countries and one side dominating the code for as long as its been around. Its not growing its been around for a very long time and is yet to make an impact. Sure more people adapt but not nearly as fast as union, not only at club level but on a international scale. So by your view only the 6N is growing, I think you might find that club rugby(UK,SA,Europe), the Heineken Cup and the French clubs comps are on the up, why do you think they are buying up all the talent? I think I red somewhere that in the last 4 years international Rugby union has added more viewer by 4, then League has in its entire existence. Now I don’t have proof to back that up but its sounds good in my argument (see your previous post). I have no problem with league ill even sit in on a match from time to time but when ignorant people like steffy come along saying "This is just another article proving that union supporters don’t understand proper rugby. There seems to be a lot of them on here." I cant help but laugh and stir the pot a bit more. Ian has made some good points, not all of them I agree with but that is what we are here for, to discuss to learn to argue...to stir :) If you just come here to state your views and not listen to other with an open mind then it defeats the purpose of the Roar, there are some guys on this site that can recall rugby matched played 30-40 years ago. There is a wealth of knowledge to be shared. Calling Ian an idiot when he has made some valid points does not make you any better.

TemBa V J Fair enough. I'm sure we agree. I have not stated my preference either. But what I can't understand is the bitter anti League sentiments so common in The Roar. Ignore Ian from NZ. He is a typically uninformed, ignorant Union hack. Incidentally, viewing stats in England favour RL with the exception of the 6 Nations. NZ RL stats are growing too. Compared with 5 years ago they are now challenging RU on the pay channel.

Chas, I love how Aussies especially RL supporters get this wrong every time without fail, are you talking about viewing stats purely in Australia? If so I agree but that does not mean the rest of the world reflects the same view. So compared to the world viewing rates RL is the little disabled brother. Steffie, we just like to put the bait out there, RL supporters byte every time. Its amazing how they jump to defend . We live in a world of choices, thank god for that, where I do not need to watch league players smash in to the line time and time again like brainless drones. My choice is Union where I can see good coaches and intelligent players structure and play a set of plans 3-4 phases ahead or create something from nothing from time to time. It's more versatile , the rules allow good coaches to find new gaps and strategies almost every game. Union is a game of all sizes bringing different talents to each position. Its hard to understand the game but that is what makes it special. Just the complexity of union makes it more like Chess and the simplicity of the rules, player size and versatility of league makes it more like checkers. I am sure its not a dig at RL but more an agreement to what has been said here before by RL supporter is that Union and its rules are far to complex and league is not. So in a way we all agree. A good checkers move is still entertaining and while watching the state of origin a couple of weeks back I turn to my friend (an RL supporter) and said... "I never said these boys don’t have skills".

In a few words, rugby union is moving from the laws imposing structure to the players imposing structure ( structure: scrums, long lineouts) by allowing players to choose what to do when they are awarded possession. This can be good ( ak Super 14 final) and can be bad (early super 14 games). I suggest that the laws should save the game from the players poor selections too protect the paying public from stupidity, thats where more thought should come into the laws. A bad game of rugby can now sink to new lows, few scrums, few long lineouts, a pure tap and go, and thats not union. Not ever ! My comments on league, Of course I new I would get emotions running, hey I need to get the topic out there. 54 comments so far, so the debate continues.

This is just another article proving that union supporters don't understand proper rugby. There seems to be a lot of them on here.

sheek, a very good post mate, well thought out and well worth reading. Very insightful. Sledge... if the S14 was no better, why bother with the ELV's? That was my point. As for the ELV's in general, it seems all insane... it seems to me that the ELV rated the highest is the tap and go in place of long arms... but that is not on the menu from August. It will be trialled in one, as yet unnamed contest, next season, but is not coming to be trialled fully. The offside at tackle is gone, the uneven numbers at lineout and bringing down the maul, is in... the 5 meter at scrum and 2 kiciout variation, is in too... the collpasing maul wont be trialled in under 19 age group games... which was our great concern... age group rugby is very different from adult rugby... a maul deliberately brought down can involve kids not mature being crushed by kids who have matured early... we have to minimise the danger, not enhance it. But that one is settled, at least in England. I think it's good that kids wont be the guinea pigs, but adults. Have I seen the light? No... I think the maul should be left alone, the lineout kept as even numbers once set... the 5 meter at scrum time is looking like it works, the kick out of the 22 we don't like, because it leads to a kind of negative hoofing game, but the tap and go, although it isn't my cup of tea, I do understand it's appeal... so perhaps if you're willing to admit that some ELV's are poor, I'll meet you half way and say some are less poor!!!!!!!!! Ok, some might be ok... but I think we have to be careful that union isn't lost in persuit of fans and tv viewers and in an attempt to win league fans over... up here league is well respected and watched by union people, and visa versa... but league is league, and union is union... you'll never win each others fans... just like cricket and baseball, or basketball and netball... or AFL and pole-dancing....

If anyone truly believes the laws as they stand don't need changing pull out a tape of South Africa vs Australia from last year, or one of the world cup semis. Then watch the super 14 final and decide. Bob, you say the super 14 final was no different than previous finals. Is this an admission that the ELVs have not destroyed rugby? Could it be you have seen the light? Regarding the poll and 85% of respondents being anti ELVs I think we need to be careful. British media consistently slamed the ELVs and lied about them being an Australian conspiracy. The media wound up the punters into a frenzy, and then asked them to vote. Hardly are recipe for intelligent decision making. De Tocqueville would have been proud. Quick comment on collapsed mauls. In most games (not all, but most) you will have at least one collapsed maul. The punishment for this is a penalty. If collapsing mauls is really so dangerous, why aren't players being sent off? Regarding the contest for possesion, the Aussie rules supporter is dead right. Just as league pretends to have rucks and scrums, union often pretends to have a true contest for possession which in effect doesn't occur as the contest is constrained by a number of complex rules which favour the attacking team.