The luck of the Wallabies

[...] reply to Spiro Zavos’ summary of the Wallabies test against Ireland, it was gracious and generous of you to interpret Saturday [...]

The video ref Spiro was talking about was first seen in the University tournament final in Stellenbosch. It gave 1 chance to each team per halve to challenge a decision. It worked very well as the decision was communicated via loudspeakers ala NFL. The beauty was that it forced teams to only challenge decisions which in their view would have a big influence on the game so there were no lenghty stoppages. As the game was only won by Stellenbosch in the 82 min it increased the "drama factor" grEatly. Isn't that what Aussies want to compete with league and AFL?

You must be a writer Dublin Dave considering your many erstwile contributions. I would change the TMO to be able to adjudicate over the events right before the try up to the previous phase or say 15 secs , and not just the in goal area. A try being scored is the most important situation and there is a delay anyway going to a TMO.

I can't agree with allowing coach's challenges to the ref. That's just a whinger's charter. And talk about slowing down the game. For top level rugby I would absolutely favour giving the touch judges more power to intervene. Especially in the areas where it makes sound common sense to do so. They should be primarily responsible for policing offside in the backs. Especially if the new law about being 5m back at the scrum comes in. And they should be on the lookout for scrum infringements eg illegal binding on the referee's blind side. Watching scrums on TV it is staggering to see how props bind on each other's arms and not the body (as they're supposed to) when they know the ref is on the other side of the scrum and then do it properly as soon as they see his little feet scurry around to their side. But one of the great strengths of the game, which permeates down to amateur level, is the deference that is accorded referees. That is something that is ingrained in the culture of the game, unlike soccer where despite there being a written law that the referee cannot change his decision even it it's wrong, you still get players intimidating officials in quite menacing ways. And even in an amateur game like Gaelic football there have been stories of referees at club matches being assaulted afterwards. There was one famous story about a ref who was locked in the boot of his car because some people didn't like his decisions! Accordign to the laws of rugby, the referee is the "sole arbiter of fact and law". By all means, let the touch judges/assistant refs help him to get the facts right during a match. But not coaches or trainers.

GregC I would swap Lote for Nonu even though Nonu appears to be as thick as a post. He at least doesn't come off the pitch with only 25% of a game off his chest. At least on Saturday night Lote played 50% of a game.There again the Kiwi's might not put up with his rubbish and turn him into a world class winger rather than a first class whinger and mouth merchant which is all he is at the moment. I think Lote has a very developed work meter that tells him when he has done enough to justify his selection. This is different to the last 2 years where he has done very little knowing that his bullshit had them bamboozeled and they would pick him even if he went to sleep on the side of the pitch which I think he did on a few occasions. Would love to hear some of the conversations he has with his League mates about playing rugby.

Stillmissit I am not as sure as you about the base compentencies of many referees. I recall Sprio's story about a training session with the ELV's where Robbie Deans called several referees on their interpretation of some laws, and the referees eventually conceded Deans was correct. Admittedly this was in the context of new laws coming in but still ... You are right that when the rules are known, it comes down to interpretation. If they lecture to each other with Powerpoint slides quoting chunks of dry regulation then this is pointless. They need to watch dozens of real-life examples of what goes on an a game and agree (or be told from Paddy) that this is the correct ruling in this situation, that will apply if this happens instead and so on.

BenC All ref's at this level know the laws very well and often lecture to other ref's on law and it's implications. It really is in interpretation where it all goes bollocks up. Send them to a training session (as you suggest) at the start of the season and lay out the accepted interpretations for the main parts of the game then ensure that they understand that if they don't live to these standards they will not be selected. This will still leave opportunities for good ref's to shine ie like the young south african ref with dark hair, obviously cant remember his name but at my age its a miracle I remember anything. Obviously Lyndon Bray is the current example I would base the other ref's around.

I agree with Spiro about the coaches being allotted a limited number of opportunities to challenge the call on the field. As was pointed out, the NFL has this, and in my opinion it has worked excellently. I don't think it logically follows that if rugby were to hypothetically adopt the NFL-style "coaches challenge" that means rugby is necessarily headed the way of the NFL (I'd like there to be one sport somewhere that's free of hooliganism).

I dont know about anyone else but it just seemed that the Refs were about half a beat to slow or calling way to fast. The policing of the rucks for all teams seemed to be a bit out after the S14s season or is it the European refs arnt that used to quick play?

Bob Owens and the French referee (Aus v Ire) were both pretty woeful but to be fair, we have our share of dropkick referees down here in the superior hemisphere as well (cough Steve Marks cough). Still the human factor is important, which is why I favour an additional assistant referee over more stoppages and more use of video technology. A bit more training of referees would not be amiss, for the sake of consistency in the application of the laws, and I think most fans in other hemisphere would agree that would be a good move. Unfortunately everyone remembers a bad referreeing performance, but we don't remember the many good performances because when they are doing well referees take second place to the spectacle. Referees generally get a pretty raw deal from the media and the fans and we should make more of an effort to balance the criticisms with compliments (when warranted).

I often wonder why Drew Mitchell was dropped during the world cup, when he was equal leading try scorer at the time, and Lote hadn't scored in how long? I personally don't rate Lote as highly as others do. I certainly think this year he is playing a lot better than he has in the past, and again, this year finally, he warrants selection. Not so sure about the past years though, especially for someone with his wage.

"Strange how Nonu is far less talented than Tiquiri, yet many here have no time for LT" Not really that strange - Nonu, due to his limitations, has been a perpetual utility and having debuted in 2003 is only now looking like nailing down a regular starting spot in the AB first XV - he didn't even make the World Cup squad remember. Tuqiri is a regular starter and one of the highest paid, highest profile players in Australian rugby. Nonu is viewed as full of potential but with severe limitations on his game (defence, handling and vision) that mean he's not viewed as a complete player and many in NZ don't think he's genuine test material because of it. Tuqiri has basically been an automatic selection for the past 4 1/2 years for the Wallabies. The knock against Tuqiri is that his ability and form is not always in proportion to his continued selection, profile, ego and pay packet. Nonu isn't a regular squad member let alone starter, is way down on the list in terms of profile, seems fairly self effacing when interviewed and wouldn't get paid any more than any other S14/sometime All Black. It'd be like wondering why Drew Mitchell wasn't held to the same standards expected of Tuqiri.

"the ruck is called, he would be offside if he was in he wrong side" - Actually this bit's wrong, Bob. He wouldn't be offside being there in the ruck as he wasn't offside when he got there. There's he wouldn't be able to play the ball with his hands as the ruck had formed, but he could attempt to ruck or kick the ball back to the All Blacks side so long as he didn't do so in a dangerous or reckless manner. Incidentally having watched that piece of play from McCaw (from the TVNZ news - you can watch it here http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/1849728) the correct call should probably have been to penalise Tom Rees for coming in at the side. He comes in in front of McCaw and drives in on Dan Carter. In fact even if McCaw hadn't been there, Rees doesn't even come in from behind the hind most foot of Narraway. There's also an argument that Carter doesn't really release Narraway though. Owens was terrible at enforcing either side entering the tackle area from the side and also on players leaving their feet when entering the tackle/ruck.

Dexter, I agree with you... but spiro said "We had the spectacle of Nigel Owens penalising McCaw being on the wrong side of the ruck at the tackle" which is nonsense... once the ruck is called, he would be offside if he was in he wrong side... beore the ruck is called, it is open play and he can contest the ball if he is on his feet. You are right, spiro was wrong... ; )

Australia were extremely lucky to win this game. Lote Tiquiri, for one, saved Australia’s skin a number of times. This is not unusual. He acts as another second rower in the last defensive line at times. Did he rip the ball out of an Irishman’s hands as he was going over the tryline? I’m wondering if Giteau can get too involved in a game, sometimes it seems he wants all the room for himself without allowing for those outside him. He forgets to have trust in those around him, which is a contagion of non-confidence. He’s brilliant however; he hasn’t got to his peak yet. Australia kicked far too much; it was a madness of kicking. What was Cameron Shepherd doing not committing himself in attack? Why would he shy away when he’s talked himself up? And particularly why when it only falls into Eddie Jones’ predictable negative rubbish? Is EJ the worst student of human psychology we’ve seen in Australian sport??? Or is it, beneath all the self serving crap, he thinks the best way to deal with a problem is to state the facts? Look at Palu after EJ told him he went missing…although I truly don’t know the true facts behind this. Robbie Deans stated that no one can shirk the hard stuff in test rugby, but is seemed that the Wallabies wanted a quick fix; kick a genius ball and get the quick points. Nope. Get used to hard hit ups. Take on the defence. Strange how Nonu is far less talented than Tiquiri, yet many here have no time for LT…yet he’s one of the few who understand test rugby for what it is. It’s about hitting up hard, and big defence, at the very least.

Hey Bob "You can’t be on the wrong side of the tackle, and if you make the tackle and get back to your feet you can contest the ball, but once the ruck is set," The point was that MaCaw was on his feet after the tackle and had the right to the ball with his hands before a ruck forms. Until the ruck is formed, he is not on the wrong side.

One of the best tries I ever saw was scored by Dennis Hickie for Leinster in a Heineken Cup quarter final against Toulouse in 2006. (Look for it on YouTube, it's a peach). It started when Felipe Contepomi, after some concerted Toulouse pressure, ran the ball from a ruck under his own posts. As he did I screamed at the TV: "Don't run it from there you muppet!" A few seconds and some beautiful interchange passes later, Hickie was diving into the corner. Shows how much I know. Having said which, I hope the entire Irish team and reserves and backroom staff queued up in the dressing room at half time to give Peter Stringer a succession of forceful wedgies as a condign retribution for his gormlessness in running that penalty before half time. And followed them up by giving him Chinese burns in the showers. Maybe even some deep heat sprayed on the genitals and any other number of perverted punishments that rugby players have devised for their dimmer team mates over the years. Gobshite.

It's easy to knock Baxter, and he does nose dive often, but he's getting mugged a lot too... and he's better than people give him credit for being! As for spiro "We had the spectacle of Nigel Owens penalising McCaw being on the wrong side of the ruck at the tackle" mate, the ruck and teh tackle are two diffrent things. You can't be on the wrong side of the tackle, and if you make the tackle and get back to your feet you can contest the ball, but once the ruck is set, it's a ruck and you can't be on the wrong side... so your statement makes absolutely no sense...

On Baxter. A large percentage of his test caps are for 20 mins in a game, coming off the bench. Since he was one of the few props who covered both sides he had secured the bench spot. I wish they would change test caps in lots of 60 mins played. Then all these players who get on for 10-20 mins would have to do it 3-6 times before it equates to a test cap.

Hats off to those sticking up for Al Baxter. As you rightly say perhaps he's not what we wish at this level be but if he's our best then let's stop sticking in the slipper eh? It's the job of the coach to 'improve or remove'. Enough said. Monty String - "Nothing is more dispiriting for me than to go to a game and see the visiting team march 80 yards with a combination of great running and driving forward play, score a try, and the home crowd greets it with a scoffing handclap or two. It’s all my team, right or wrong these days." I couldn't agree more. But were you at Saturdays match? And is that what happened? You see for me with the Free to Air experience, I thought the whole thing was great. Irish & Wallaby supporters having a beaut time together. Lots of ood banter. Meantime back in our lounge room it was nothing but admiration for some of the Irish forward play. That rolling Irish maul actually had the Missus saying "why don't we do that too"? What could I tell her? As a Wallaby supporter I've not spotted anything too much beating the drum about how well we're doing. I think we all realise that the Irish are at the end of their stint & we're at the start of ours. Come November the boot could well be on the other foot. Such is Rugby.